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Jones28
01-03-2014, 12:11 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26394744

Make of it what you will

wookie70
01-03-2014, 12:13 AM
The camouflage is appropriate livery for Hibs at the moment because all the players are hiding on the pitch

Green Reaper
01-03-2014, 12:14 AM
Hibernian: Terry Butcher apology after defeat by Dundee United

Hibernian's manager has apologised to fans for their defeat on the day the club launched on an appeal to join "Terry Butcher's Green and White Army".
Dundee United missed two penalties but still recorded a 3-1 win in Edinburgh.
"Of course I'm not happy and I apologise to the Hibs fans because it's not acceptable again," said Butcher.
"We've had a few of these this year, not too many wins and a lot of games like this where we've been nowhere near the standards that we expect and want."
Hibs' website is bedecked with green camouflage, describing itself as "online headquarters" and that it is "recruiting here".
"I've never known a campaign like it," said Butcher ahead of the match at Easter Road.
"We've gone on the army theme. We are trying to recruit people to come along. My son's in the Army, so it touches my heart."
However, he admitted after the game - United's fourth defeat in five home games - that Hibs are a long way from making Easter Road a fortress and that a few players will be demobbed in the summer.
"We know the size of the task - it hasn't changed," said the Englishman. "It just re-enforces our opinions about some of the people.

Anything that could go wrong did go wrong. The only good thing is that they missed two penalties

Terry Butcher
Hibernian manager
"But we've got to work with these guys. These guys are genuinely honest guys, they're hurting, but we have to be much better than that.
"The summer is a long way off. Players can determine whether they can stay here or not and the performances tell the whole story.
"It is a 90-minute audition every game that they play. They know that already."
United had gone ahead through Nadir Ciftci before a mistake by goalkeeper Radoslaw Cierzniak handed Jordon Forster an equaliser just before half-time.
However, goals from Gavin Gunning and Farid El Alagui, with a red card for Hibs midfielder Tom Taiwo sandwiched between, ensured a win for United.
"The boys put plenty of effort in, I thought Dundee United put more effort in, which is unacceptable and they were by far the better side," said Butcher.
"I don't have any complaints about the result.
"We got the lifeline just before half-time and unusually we concede a goal from a corner again.
"It's another kick in the stomach and we haven't come back from that.
"And, of course, the sending off does not help our cause and I think Tom on the night was our best midfield player.
"Anything that could go wrong did go wrong. The only good thing is that they missed two penalties.
"It's hard enough with 11 against Dundee United because they move the ball so well, they looked comfortable in possession, they looked confident.
"We looked the opposite and that's not how we've been playing or how we want to play."

weonlywon6-2
01-03-2014, 12:17 AM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26394744

Make of it what you will

honest by butcher

3pm
01-03-2014, 12:18 AM
Yawn.

Sir David Gray
01-03-2014, 12:19 AM
I honestly don't care about words anymore.

I want action.

Wotherspiniesta
01-03-2014, 12:25 AM
A massive clearout in the summer and another transitional season coming up then.

Completely bored with this pish year upon year.

We make good players crap and average players even worse. There's just something about us.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
01-03-2014, 12:31 AM
A massive clearout in the summer and another transitional season coming up then.

Completely bored with this pish year upon year.

We make good players crap and average players even worse. There's just something about us.

:agree:

lucky
01-03-2014, 12:31 AM
If things don't improve rapidly the fans will turn on him. Talks a good game but I want evidence of a good game. He is at fault with his team selection and tactics. I'm desperate for him to succeed FFS I've even renewed my ST today but that was a rancid performance.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
01-03-2014, 12:31 AM
I honestly don't care about words anymore.

I want action.

This.

snooky
01-03-2014, 12:32 AM
"Anything that could go wrong did go wrong" -Terry Butcher.

Let's start with your tactics .....
Harris is so off form he should not have started - or he should have been subbed at half time - or he should have come off instead of Craig.
We ended up playing with nine men (who were not all that hot either).

ehf
01-03-2014, 01:16 AM
If things don't improve rapidly the fans will turn on him.

Already happening; he was getting dogs abuse from the West Lower tonight.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
01-03-2014, 01:20 AM
Already happening; he was getting dogs abuse from the West Lower tonight.

I dont even know if I want to know but **** it, what was said?

SouthamptonHibs
01-03-2014, 01:22 AM
First two players to leave must be Hanlon and Stevenson! Reason is they have been part of our crap teams since out "glory days" ended in 2009 Not there fault but they are part of the problem. They are bottom six players at best! If we resign these guys again I'll no be happy. There are better players out there than them on smaller wages!
Loads need to go but they two gave seen off about 5 managers and are part if the problem

SurferRosa
01-03-2014, 01:23 AM
Butcher decided the time was right for him to take on the challenge of managing a big club. Well, the heats on now and the pressure is only going to increase from here on in. I hope, for our sake as well as his, he made the right decision. We`ve heard all the apologies before....get it sorted.

EH54
01-03-2014, 01:25 AM
First two players to leave must be Hanlon and Stevenson! Reason is they have been part of our crap teams since 2006/07. Not there fault but they are part of the problem. They are bottom six players at best! If we resign these guys again I'll no be happy. There are better players out there than them on smaller wages!
Loads need to go but they two gave seen off about 5 managers and are part if the problem

There would be a few before them i would be punting but i think we should get rid of the lot and start again might take a few years to build but at least its something to look forward to.

SouthamptonHibs
01-03-2014, 01:31 AM
There would be a few before them i would be punting but i think we should get rid of the lot and start again might take a few years to build but at least its something to look forward to.

They are defo not the worst but there part of the re occurring problem. Stevenson is a work horse at best! Poor passer of the ball not a great lb not a winger not really a centre mid, doesn't create chances or score goals etc. but he's not brutal he just doesn't really add much value to the team.

I'd punt most of them. Get everyone out then sign loads of guys on three year deals (proven track records). I'd seek a bank loan off 2-3mil. It would increase our debt to say £9mil but should pay for itself with better results and more revenue generated. What's on show is brutal. No carrots to offer next year as no cup final rangers or hearts

marinello59
01-03-2014, 01:34 AM
I dont even know if I want to know but **** it, what was said?

''Butcher sort it out'' probably.

Up The Bracket
01-03-2014, 01:44 AM
First two players to leave must be Hanlon and Stevenson! Reason is they have been part of our crap teams since out "glory days" ended in 2009 Not there fault but they are part of the problem. They are bottom six players at best! If we resign these guys again I'll no be happy. There are better players out there than them on smaller wages!
Loads need to go but they two gave seen off about 5 managers and are part if the problem

Yes, lets boot the two players that have been the most consistent this season, deary dear.

spike220
01-03-2014, 01:50 AM
They are defo not the worst but there part of the re occurring problem. Stevenson is a work horse at best! Poor passer of the ball not a great lb not a winger not really a centre mid, doesn't create chances or score goals etc. but he's not brutal he just doesn't really add much value to the team.

I'd punt most of them. Get everyone out then sign loads of guys on three year deals (proven track records). I'd seek a bank loan off 2-3mil. It would increase our debt to say £9mil but should pay for itself with better results and more revenue generated. What's on show is brutal. No carrots to offer next year as no cup final rangers or hearts

The trouble is we all want improvemnet, but nobody wants to pay for it, if the best idea you have is to borrow money then I have to say, that path has been well worn and it does nat end in glory.

The Green Goblin
01-03-2014, 01:59 AM
The trouble is we all want improvemnet, but nobody wants to pay for it, if the best idea you have is to borrow money then I have to say, that path has been well worn and it does nat end in glory.

I know this isn't a popular opinion on here, but we'd be as well selling East Mains and investing in the team, or the club in general. Unless anyone can tell me how it's helping to improve performances like tonight's..not to mention the vast majority of the performances for the last few years since it was built?

07BigD
01-03-2014, 06:21 AM
Everyone surely understands that we have a very average squad and they are basically shot of confidence most likely getting emptied in the summer, just have to grit our teeth and hold out to the summer again

weonlywon6-2
01-03-2014, 06:46 AM
I dont even know if I want to know but **** it, what was said?

are you fenlon in disguise ??

jacomo
01-03-2014, 07:28 AM
A massive clearout in the summer and another transitional season coming up then.

Completely bored with this pish year upon year.

We make good players crap and average players even worse. There's just something about us.

Yes but why is this?

TB seems confused himself - says the players are 'honest' and 'work hard' yet not as hard as Dundee Utd. They hide, especially at home games. Are the Hibs fans that scary?

jacomo
01-03-2014, 07:32 AM
I know this isn't a popular opinion on here, but we'd be as well selling East Mains and investing in the team, or the club in general. Unless anyone can tell me how it's helping to improve performances like tonight's..not to mention the vast majority of the performances for the last few years since it was built?

The entire football world as far as I know places emphasis on good training facilities.

What makes Hibs the only club where this isn't the case? Are we really suppose to go back to public parks, Arthur's Seat and Gullane sands?

scoopyboy
01-03-2014, 07:58 AM
First two players to leave must be Hanlon and Stevenson! Reason is they have been part of our crap teams since out "glory days" ended in 2009 Not there fault but they are part of the problem. They are bottom six players at best! If we resign these guys again I'll no be happy. There are better players out there than them on smaller wages!
Loads need to go but they two gave seen off about 5 managers and are part if the problem

What wages are they on?

Brizo
01-03-2014, 08:08 AM
I know this isn't a popular opinion on here, but we'd be as well selling East Mains and investing in the team, or the club in general. Unless anyone can tell me how it's helping to improve performances like tonight's..not to mention the vast majority of the performances for the last few years since it was built?

East Mains is here to stay but its lack of impacts a mystery to me. Players come to us who have done well at clubs where they could only dream of an EM style facility and their form plummets. Young lads coming through the ranks go backwards. Players leave the club , go to clubs with much poorer facilities and their form improves. Its happened under a series of managers so it cant be blamed on one manager not using the facilities properly.

We created an EPL standard facility but are shopping in a Scottish and bottom of the English leagues market Maybe the facilities are only as good as the players using them ? TB succeeded at ICT without East Mains style facilities. If he turns things around here it wont be down to EMs.

Ronniekirk
01-03-2014, 08:15 AM
I honestly don't care about words anymore.

I want action.
Send the Storm Troopers in

KeithTheHibby
01-03-2014, 08:16 AM
"Anything that could go wrong did go wrong" -Terry Butcher.

Let's start with your tactics .....
Harris is so off form he should not have started - or he should have been subbed at half time - or he should have come off instead of Craig.
We ended up playing with nine men (who were not all that hot either).

Yep tactics are questionable. Why are we not playing 442 any more??? Best run of results when we played this formation.

As for Harris he's as good as a man short.

Alfred E Newman
01-03-2014, 08:20 AM
I dont even know if I want to know but **** it, what was said?

I saw one guy laying off to Butcher near the end. He was pointing towards the pitch and It looked like he turned round and agreed with the guy.
Butcher and Malpas looked as cheesed off as we were with the performance. Whether they can turn it round in one summer transfer window is another question. I have seen little so far to suggest they can.

Onion
01-03-2014, 08:22 AM
East Mains is here to stay but its lack of impacts a mystery to me. Players come to us who have done well at clubs where they could only dream of an EM style facility and their form plummets. Young lads coming through the ranks go backwards. Players leave the club , go to clubs with much poorer facilities and their form improves. Its happened under a series of managers so it cant be blamed on one manager not using the facilities properly.

We created an EPL standard facility but are shopping in a Scottish and bottom of the English leagues market Maybe the facilities are only as good as the players using them ? TB succeeded at ICT without East Mains style facilities. If he turns things around here it wont be down to EMs.

Football's all about motivation. NONE, and I mean NOT ONE of the current Hibs squad will play for a bigger club than Hibs. So when these players arrive at Hibs (and East Mains) they have reached the pinnacle of their careers. They will not earn more money, play in front of bigger home crowds or have better facilities. There is nothing left to achieve or shoot for. From there it is all down hill and their drive has gone. Most of the guys on show last night know full well that their Hibs careers are over in the summer .... and they don't care less. They've made it, made their money and will just play football somewhere else with less pressure or expectation.

rcarter1
01-03-2014, 08:22 AM
The trouble is we all want improvemnet, but nobody wants to pay for it, if the best idea you have is to borrow money then I have to say, that path has been well worn and it does nat end in glory.

A loan might not be such a bad idea. This is Petrie were talking about, not the Belieberdrome monkeys of Gorgie. Our ability to deal with a modest loan is far better than most other clubs. We are struggling to make top 6, so could lose out on cash that way, and the 'recruitment' drive isn't going to work until we have a team capable of justifying it. If Hibs believe in the managements ability to source the right players, but need a stretch to the budget to get them in, then Im all for a loan/overdraft of a couple of million.The attendance last night of 9600 has a lot of room for improvement. Ave attendances of 14000 are possible with the right team. That amounts to approx 1.5million+ over a season. Currently Petries plan is to tie the budget with the attendances. As these are dropping, the management team are really going to have to pull some rabbits out of hats.

hibsbollah
01-03-2014, 08:25 AM
The crocuses are out, spring is round the corner, Hibs are in their usual end of season slump, the manager is dropping hints of an end of season clearout and there is a thud in the letterbox as the club tries to persuade me to renew my season ticket with a wacky 'theme'.

Deja vu all over again.

Hibs7
01-03-2014, 08:42 AM
A massive clearout in the summer and another transitional season coming up then.

Completely bored with this pish year upon year.

We make good players crap and average players even worse. There's just something about us.

A clear out yes ... But if TB and MM are as good as I think they are then we should not have any transition, just steady improvement to the standard they expect .... This season is gone we need to accept that but give them the support they ask for.

Beefster
01-03-2014, 09:04 AM
Yes, lets boot the two players that have been the most consistent this season, deary dear.

I don't think Hanlon needs replaced but just because a player has been consistently 'okay' doesn't make him good enough for a team with aspirations of finishing in the top four at some point.

Steven_Hibs
01-03-2014, 09:06 AM
Yes, lets boot the two players that have been the most consistent this season, deary dear.

Consistent? You having a laugh? I'm sick of watching the both of them as well as most of our team. Hanlon is as lightweight for a defender that I have ever seen. Been happening all season. Last nights first goal highlighted this! Shocking, and Stevenson just offers nothing to our team, yeah okay he gives effort but he's simply not good enough

oregonhibby
01-03-2014, 09:11 AM
I always laugh at the thought we write of the rest of the season. Having shelled out the money we have to go we need to demand performance.


Then again we have got so used to writing off seasons we are addicted to the coming moan! Pity it is getting earlier and earlier in the season.


I heard TB talk before the Raith game. Eloquent and inspiration - bump! I hope he gets it right, but remember he has had a chequered career! Every season we hear, it is the other managers team. We next year it will be his and here is hoping!


No point to this post, I just needed to say (write) it.

Aldo
01-03-2014, 09:11 AM
Consistent? You having a laugh? I'm sick of watching the both of them as well as most of our team. Hanlon is as lightweight for a defender that I have ever seen. Been happening all season. Last nights first goal highlighted this! Shocking, and Stevenson just offers nothing to our team, yeah okay he gives effort but he's simply not good enough

It's not been happening all season as you put it for Hanlon.

Yes he had a mare last nite but to say that is way off the mark.

Hanlon has probably been our best player this season ( and that is saying something) but to say that is bollox.

And if Hanlon and Stevenson are Shocking then where does that put the likes of Craig and McGivern and many others.

On last nites performance and as I've said on another thread I would shed no tears if we let most of those who started go.

That apart from Harris, Forster and Stanton - cos they are young.

Hibercelona
01-03-2014, 09:36 AM
Stevenson just offers nothing to our team, yeah okay he gives effort but he's simply not good enough

He offers effort then, which is more than anybody else offers.

Not saying that effort alone is good enough to take the club forward, but he's the best we've got in a honking squad of no talents and no efforts.

Pretty Boy
01-03-2014, 09:39 AM
A massive clearout in the summer and another transitional season coming up then.

Completely bored with this pish year upon year.

We make good players crap and average players even worse. There's just something about us.

Nailed it.

truehibernian
01-03-2014, 09:40 AM
He offers effort then, which is more than anybody else offers.

Not saying that effort alone is good enough to take the club forward, but he's the best we've got in a honking squad of no talents and no efforts.

Every midfielder should be capable of adding 3 or 4 goals a season to the overall tally - that's my thoughts on midfielders . Lewis offers absolute honesty and work rate - but at top level football I want more from a left sided midfielder and I'm sure the front men want more in an attacking creative sense too.

Can't help not liking Lewis but we need better, more creative, and offering a goal threat - he doesn't give any of that season after season.

Wakeyhibee
01-03-2014, 09:50 AM
First two players to leave must be Hanlon and Stevenson! Reason is they have been part of our crap teams since out "glory days" ended in 2009 Not there fault but they are part of the problem. They are bottom six players at best! If we resign these guys again I'll no be happy. There are better players out there than them on smaller wages!
Loads need to go but they two gave seen off about 5 managers and are part if the problem

Agree with what you say however there are so many average at best players out there it's hard to see who you would want to stay bar Williams and the youngsters/new sigings (just now). That implies a massive clear out and a long slog over maybe two seasons but I do think we finally have the right management team in place to do it who have proven there worth elsewhere on a lesser budget. Are we patient enough to wait that long?

ballengeich
01-03-2014, 09:57 AM
An apology means nothing unless it's accompanied by action to improve things.

What concerns me is the deterioration in performances since the end of last year. After the win against Kilmarnock I walked out of the ground happy with the performance for the first game in a long time, and believing that the team was genuinely going in the right direction. The next game against Hearts was untidy, but the result was what mattered. Since then form and results have slumped. We nearly beat Dundee United last time out, but yesterday we looked nowhere near their level.

What was originally a welcome change in style to move the ball forward quicker and create more attacking threats has degenerated into aimless hoofball. As in other businesses, a football manager should be judged by how he sorts out problems. Over to you TB. We all want you to succeed.

truehibernian
01-03-2014, 09:59 AM
Agree with what you say however there are so many average at best players out there it's hard to see who you would want to stay bar Williams and the youngsters/new sigings (just now). That implies a massive clear out and a long slog over maybe two seasons but I do think we finally have the right management team in place to do it who have proven there worth elsewhere on a lesser budget. Are we patient enough to wait that long?

Sorry, why does it mean a 'long slog' and over two seasons ?

Bosman has seen literally thousands of pro footballers available and wanting to play football. Scouting is all important - for me, and I stress this is only my thoughts, it's easy to start again in this era of football and bring in 8 or 9 players to build a side. That's why we have a pre-season as well. Hibs however never ever grasp the nettle and do business early - never. And under Petrie I don't expect to see an influx of players pre-season either. He'll do what our defenders do and yet again dither and penny pinch.

Scouts and networks should already have identified players willing to come, perhaps out of contract in summer, and TB already making contact. It's up to the Board to get them in early, get them up/down here, and raring to go first days of pre-season training.

Why only add two or three players to a squad so used to bottom reaches of the league - it only serves to guild a dead lily. I'd clear out 8-10 players and bring in the same number, using youth players and our young talent to supplement.

Simple as that.

Hibercelona
01-03-2014, 10:04 AM
Every midfielder should be capable of adding 3 or 4 goals a season to the overall tally - that's my thoughts on midfielders . Lewis offers absolute honesty and work rate - but at top level football I want more from a left sided midfielder and I'm sure the front men want more in an attacking creative sense too.

Can't help not liking Lewis but we need better, more creative, and offering a goal threat - he doesn't give any of that season after season.

He's proven before that he can be dangerous going forward when the players around him are willing to put in the same level of effort.

Unfortunately, it's like every other player around him isn't even trying.

It's hard to look good when you're 1 man playing 11 every week.

Brightside
01-03-2014, 10:10 AM
Hanlon had a shocker last night. But has had a great season. Nelson is a dreadful defender and Forster should be moved into CB asap. We appear to need a whole new midfield! No creativity. No grunt. No effort. Craig should never have been out for the 2nd half....that was very poor by Butcher. SHouldnt have been brought back in, and should never ever be a captain.

truehibernian
01-03-2014, 10:14 AM
He's proven before that he can be dangerous going forward when the players around him are willing to put in the same level of effort.

Unfortunately, it's like every other player around him isn't even trying.

It's hard to look good when you're 1 man playing 11 every week.

Lewis dangerous going forward ? Sorry, maybe in a handful of games and only in fleeting moments, but not over the last 5 years.

If I were to describe him in one word it would be 'dependable'. I want much much more from a left sided midfielder mate. I love the wee guy but sometimes teams need to revamp and change direction - Lewis just doesn't offer va va voom, and he's playing in an area of the pitch that needs it.

woodyloon
01-03-2014, 10:20 AM
Every week I hope something is going to click and signs of improvement, no matter how small are seen. I can even take getting beat 3-1, but when there was no sign of any football from us then you start to wonder will it ever improve.

I firmly believe that there is something rotten to core at Hibs. We have training facilities that other clubs envy, but since using it we have been on a steady downward spiral.( Maybe players are getting pampered to much instead of having to rough it looking for a suitable pitch to train on).
We have brought in manager after manager and still we are no further forward looking like a team that can perform more often than not. It can't all be down to the manager/s, there has to be a deeper reason why we struggle but many so called lesser teams can change there managerial staff and players and show signs of progress.

I believe in TB and I don't want to see him go, but I feel if we get many more performances like we have seen lately, he will walk, IMO you can almost hear in his interviews his total disbelief in the performances, never mind the score.

I agree with others that we should return to a basic 4 4 2, get 2 forwards playing off each other and stop lumping the ball in the air where it ends up as 50/50, get the ball on the deck and start getting the players to make some penetrating runs, all we seem to do is pass it back or sideways, look at united last night they had players making runs, which if nothing else pulled our defenders out of position and left spaces for others to fill.

I thought the defeat from Hearts in the final would of been the wake up call the club needed, but I honestly worry that we keep just fumbling from season to season expecting Easter Road to to filled and bouncing when we getting performance after performance like we all have witnessed.

SMAXXA
01-03-2014, 10:21 AM
I'm sure this is the second time in his short spell that he's apologising. **** the saying sorry just do your job and make better decisions. That team set up last night was ****ing terrible and he should hang his head in shame. Too quick to say sorry, it means **** all.

yes I'm pissed of.

Niffy
01-03-2014, 10:27 AM
Nailed it.


Aye.... I've lost count how many apologies Hibs managers have made... how many "taking positives from that defeat" statement... how many clearout the duds... bring in 3rd, 4th or 5th choice players... give them time to settle.... c'mon they've only been together a few months.

I hope no-one is believing we're going to sign a pile of decent players in the summer.

We really are in catch 22.

Hibs team is *****

Fans fed up and either don't go or voice discontent

Hibs players uneasy & no confidence

Hibs team is *****

Fans fed up and either don't go or voice discontent

Hibs players uneasy & no confidence


Rince and repeat

Elephant Stone
01-03-2014, 10:27 AM
We're the joint-second lowest goal scorers in the league, have scored only three more than Hear7s, and we're persisting with one, isolated striker up front while keeping Heffernan out the squad altogether. That's the hardest thing for me to take, I get that it's not his team but he's cutting off our nose to spite our face with his persistent team selections.

blackpoolhibs
01-03-2014, 10:31 AM
Hanlon had a shocker last night. But has had a great season. Nelson is a dreadful defender and Forster should be moved into CB asap. We appear to need a whole new midfield! No creativity. No grunt. No effort. Craig should never have been out for the 2nd half....that was very poor by Butcher. SHouldnt have been brought back in, and should never ever be a captain.

You see that in one quote sums up what is wrong with this club. He's been decent, he's improved, but he's still a pussycat as a defender.

Him along with the rest of them are just poor poor players, who make up a poor team. Mediocrity like Hanlon and Stevenson is made out to be terrific when they have a game a little better than they normally do.

Nelson has been said to be just the kind of no nonsense defender we have been crying out for, when in reality he's a slow hoofball merchant, a carthorse given a 2 year contract or was it 3?

Our midfield have no creativity, none would get into any of the top 6 teams, but again when one of them have a game a little better than normal they are made out to be terrific, when in reality they are still poor.

I hate bringing Stevenson's name up, but he's the main one. He's not a left back, he's not a left midfielder and he's not a central midfielder. He's a bloody substitute who should only play when we are ravaged with injuries, but no he's playing every week because we have a squad full of his type's poor poor players.

We might win next week, and to be honest i have no idea who its against. And one of these losers will have a game slightly better than average, and this board will go into overdrive about how well he had done and how well we had done, and it was a great result.

When in reality the team and squad are pish, and its just another win that will be followed by a couple of defeats and a draw.

Until we get a completely new team, and a manager who knows how to get them (please let this be Butcher) And that manager knows how to get them playing well and winning more home games at least. Then i will be sitting here next year saying the same things.

The Gorf
01-03-2014, 10:35 AM
I honestly don't care about words anymore.

I want action.
It's a prerequisite of being a Hibs Manager that you learn how to apologise to the fans.:confused:
They role play it at the interview.

truehibernian
01-03-2014, 10:41 AM
We're the joint-second lowest goal scorers in the league, have scored only three more than Hear7s, and we're persisting with one, isolated striker up front while keeping Heffernan out the squad altogether. That's the hardest thing for me to take, I get that it's not his team but he's cutting off our nose to spite our face with his persistent team selections.

That's my main argument when it comes to coaching and making the obvious decisions look bizarre - not scoring enough goals, playing one up front - then why not do the obvious and play two strikers. Conceding too many goals at the back because we are playing centre halves at right back and a weak partnership - play our U20's right back (they are at the top end of the league, third best defensive record out of 16 teams), and move arguably our best centre half back into the middle. Our captain off form and not contributing - drop him and keep him on the bench. Our latest young player to be banging them in gets a national call up through the week - let's bench him and not give him a sniff.

Too many easy easy calls to make, not being made for me. And if the keeper ain't happy at training, bench him. Gunning's goal he dithered and didn't command - again. Ben has been getting off lightly too for me. Lots of goals I think he could be doing better at.

Ell_Chrisso
01-03-2014, 10:59 AM
When Butcher came in, everyone understood the mess the club was in...

I don't understand why anyone would be getting very upset with this period for Hibs? Were out of the cup, have no chance in hell of making Europe. As long as he keeps us in the league the time to really start judging the guy is when he can make 'overhaul changes' starting this summer.

Some panic loan deals in Jan were only to try and cover some cracks but it's pretty clear the club needs a lot more than that.

Give the guy a chance

RickyS
01-03-2014, 11:00 AM
You see that in one quote sums up what is wrong with this club. He's been decent, he's improved, but he's still a pussycat as a defender.

Him along with the rest of them are just poor poor players, who make up a poor team. Mediocrity like Hanlon and Stevenson is made out to be terrific when they have a game a little better than they normally do.

Nelson has been said to be just the kind of no nonsense defender we have been crying out for, when in reality he's a slow hoofball merchant, a carthorse given a 2 year contract or was it 3?

Our midfield have no creativity, none would get into any of the top 6 teams, but again when one of them have a game a little better than normal they are made out to be terrific, when in reality they are still poor.

I hate bringing Stevenson's name up, but he's the main one. He's not a left back, he's not a left midfielder and he's not a central midfielder. He's a bloody substitute who should only play when we are ravaged with injuries, but no he's playing every week because we have a squad full of his type's poor poor players.

We might win next week, and to be honest i have no idea who its against. And one of these losers will have a game slightly better than average, and this board will go into overdrive about how well he had done and how well we had done, and it was a great result.

When in reality the team and squad are pish, and its just another win that will be followed by a couple of defeats and a draw.

Until we get a completely new team, and a manager who knows how to get them (please let this be Butcher) And that manager knows how to get them playing well and winning more home games at least. Then i will be sitting here next year saying the same things.

agree with everything you say there, wee lewis splits opinion, i'm not a fan put it that way but last night i was thinking, this new 4-3-3 that seems to be the new big tactic, surely you MUST have wide guys that quickly turn defence into attack and go supply the striker, maybe combine with him to create goals, and lewis is just not that type of player and if he is the only left midfield option them it has too be two up top. As for Hanlon, I had a guy sitting along from me in the FF last night tell me he will be in the championship in the next 2 seasons, i got a few chuckles when i suggested that would be cos Jimmy Nicholl had taken him to Cowdenbeath

Hibercelona
01-03-2014, 11:09 AM
agree with everything you say there, wee lewis splits opinion, i'm not a fan put it that way but last night i was thinking, this new 4-3-3 that seems to be the new big tactic, surely you MUST have wide guys that quickly turn defence into attack and go supply the striker, maybe combine with him to create goals, and lewis is just not that type of player and if he is the only left midfield option them it has too be two up top. As for Hanlon, I had a guy sitting along from me in the FF last night tell me he will be in the championship in the next 2 seasons, i got a few chuckles when i suggested that would be cos Jimmy Nicholl had taken him to Cowdenbeath

It wasn't a 4-3-3. It was the dreaded 4-4-1-1. It may as well have just been a 4-1 though, with the midfield taken completely out of the equation with the countless times a defender would just lump the ball forward to Haynes.

truehibernian
01-03-2014, 11:22 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaFdxWsO5rM

Watch the interview from 3 mins 40 onwards - as true today as it was back then. Sir Matt nails it - bring back the excitement, happiness and wingers in fitba'.

Dan Sarf
01-03-2014, 11:51 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaFdxWsO5rM

Watch the interview from 3 mins 40 onwards - as true today as it was back then. Sir Matt nails it - bring back the excitement, happiness and wingers in fitba'.

"It's become a game of fear."

Precisely.

A fascinating interview. Thanks for the link.

woodyloon
01-03-2014, 12:11 PM
When Butcher came in, everyone understood the mess the club was in...

I don't understand why anyone would be getting very upset with this period for Hibs? Were out of the cup, have no chance in hell of making Europe. As long as he keeps us in the league the time to really start judging the guy is when he can make 'overhaul changes' starting this summer.

Some panic loan deals in Jan were only to try and cover some cracks but it's pretty clear the club needs a lot more than that.

Give the guy a chance

I think being a Hibs fan it's hard to look forward with any confidence, only 3 points behind ST Johnstone, most other supporters in our position would look at it like that, Instead we are more worried we can still be dragged into the play off position.

truehibernian
01-03-2014, 12:25 PM
"It's become a game of fear."

Precisely.

A fascinating interview. Thanks for the link.

You're welcome mate - I'm a sentimental old sod, I miss simplicity in football and I miss Montford, Crampsey, McIlvanney, the old guard of journalist who asked inciteful questions and let the experts do the talking.

We over complicate football these days and take the enjoyment away.

Leishy1995
01-03-2014, 12:29 PM
Think we all want Butcher to nail it. Nobody will dispute that.


At Hibs his budget will be larger, surely more players will want to come to a club like ours and he has the potential to make this club great again.


However, the boys he's brought in, one has barely played, one got injured after one game, and one is better than what we had but will suffer from a lack of support. This current Hibs side is shocking.

And furthermore, we need Kevin Thomson in that side instead of Liam Craig.

Gettin' Auld
01-03-2014, 04:47 PM
It should be the friggin players that apologise to the supporters.....

Up The Bracket
01-03-2014, 06:20 PM
Consistent? You having a laugh? I'm sick of watching the both of them as well as most of our team. Hanlon is as lightweight for a defender that I have ever seen. Been happening all season. Last nights first goal highlighted this! Shocking, and Stevenson just offers nothing to our team, yeah okay he gives effort but he's simply not good enough

You obviously haven't been to many games this season because last night was probably the only game this season I've came out of thinking Hanlon was poor, and I've only missed 3 games home and away.

Stevenson isn't a superstar but I'd rather have someone like him who runs and runs and runs than someone like Liam Craig or Kevin Thomson, who suddenly is seen as better by the fans because he's not in the team.

NadeAteMyLunch!
01-03-2014, 06:31 PM
Was criminal playing one up front at home to Raith, we then went two up top against RC and looked much better, scored two in the first 20 minutes. We stick with two up front away to Killie, get a draw and create a few decent chances, we then go back to one up front at HOME against an inconsistent Utd team. No excuse for that IMO. We've got a wide pitch and we expect one striker to be able to operate up there on their own?! It's ridiculous!! We slated Fenlon for it, can't actually believe Butcher is now trying it as well!?? What are they seeing that we're not!? I actually think Haynes and Collins might work as a partnership. Who knows, doesn't look like we're gonna find out though

JOD
01-03-2014, 06:34 PM
We continually get out-muscled by teams. D Utd., are not a physical team by any means but last night they were stronger in most tackles and won the 50/50s. We just look lightweight. I thought TB would address that situation early on and initially he looked to be doing it especially the back four. But last night was as bad as ever. As far as Hanlon is concerned he is not up to being a regular starter for Hibs I'm afraid. I think back to the semi last year when Taylor gave him a torrid first half. He has not progressed and has had numerous chances under different managers. That can be a problem when you sign young guys on long contracts. He is with us to 2016. I just hope Harris does not turn out to be the same. So TB has a lot to sort out over the summer and he must be given every chance by our support. A lot of you guys have short memories about the state we were in after Fenlon and this is still basically his team. However having said that I don't agree with this 1 only up front at home which sends the wrong signal to the opposition also last night could not understand why when Boeting came on TB did not move Forster to CB ( his best position) and put Boeting at RB ( his main position at Arsenal) Hence the 3rd goal. Yes we have major problems but we need to have a little bit of faith. (yet again)

Fergos
01-03-2014, 09:43 PM
That's my main argument when it comes to coaching and making the obvious decisions look bizarre - not scoring enough goals, playing one up front - then why not do the obvious and play two strikers. Conceding too many goals at the back because we are playing centre halves at right back and a weak partnership - play our U20's right back (they are at the top end of the league, third best defensive record out of 16 teams), and move arguably our best centre half back into the middle. Our captain off form and not contributing - drop him and keep him on the bench. Our latest young player to be banging them in gets a national call up through the week - let's bench him and not give him a sniff.Too many easy easy calls to make, not being made for me. And if the keeper ain't happy at training, bench him. Gunning's goal he dithered and didn't command - again. Ben has been getting off lightly too for me. Lots of goals I think he could be doing better at.

If the above references Handling "banging them in" - he's scored once this season. On the park that is......

tomf
01-03-2014, 10:07 PM
Like several other posters on this thread, I despair at the tactics Hibs employed against Dundee United. Right from the kick-off DU held a more agressive line. They were quicker to the ball, passed more accurately, kept possession better, were sharper, looked physically stronger, created more threats and looked far more confident. All in all, if I were a DU fan I would be well pleased with that performance. We, on the other hand, played one up front against two defenders who were well inside their comfort zone, we played hasty passes under pressure, no one put their foot on the ball, we lacked movement off the ball, we hardly ever found space which resulted in numerous passes to players who were already well marked, we played with fear and with no confidence but the worst sin had to be the tactic of hoofing the ball aimlessly upfield to a lone striker. For god's sake it isn't a diffcult game. Our players should be fitter, better motivated, be abe to control a ball, tackle, take players on and beat them, find space, keep moving and be confident enough to shoot when there is a sight of goal. I honestly believe we have a lot of really good players, who are unlikely to get better through criticism, but the manager needs to select the best team and formation and get them on to that pitch well up for every game. We need to play players in the positions that they are comfortable in, we need to encourage players to express themselves and we, as fans, need to give them our wholehearted support. I believe we have a potentially great manager and a good team but, as Terry agreed; they are all under audition. I hope the team look at the video from this game and see how often we gave away possesion to put ourselves in trouble again and again. I would then advise them to look at a video of the Tornadoes and see how it can be done. Maybe Terry should take a leaf out of Eddie's book. It isn't a personality contest, the manager needn't be a nice guy, we want Hibs to win games and at the end of the day the players will accept the harsh words and actions that might just be the making of them. My final comment would be to say that it is disappointing to see fans making critical comments about some of the few players who actually do look like they give one. These guys are wearing green and white and I want them to play as well as they can; no one grows through criticism.