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View Full Version : Announcement Hibernian v Craig Thomson (by tomf) (Merged threads)



spike220
18-02-2014, 08:29 AM
Is it time to petition the SPFL about the chronic poor decisions we have faced at the hands of Craig Thomson?

Can someone in the know start one electronically, surly we must be able to get 10k names on a petition to say we don't want him near Hibs ever again.

They can chose to ignore it but we need to take a stand against the lack of the lack of professionalism shown,I have nothing against the man personally, but I don't believe we get a fair go, when he is in charge.

GGTTH

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2014, 08:32 AM
Is it time to petition the SPFL about the chronic poor decisions we have faced at the hands of Craig Thomson?

Can someone in the know start one electronically, surly we must be able to get 10k names on a petition to say we don't want him near Hibs ever again.

They can chose to ignore it but we need to take a stand against the lack of the lack of professionalism shown,I have nothing against the man personally, but I don't believe we get a fair go, when he is in charge.

GGTTH

I do for that exact reason, the gimp is a cheat and he does not even hide it now.

Viva_Palmeiras
18-02-2014, 08:34 AM
What's he done now?

Anyway you could probably get 20k signatures and it wouldn't make a difference - and rightly so otherwise rangers and Celtc would whittle down the neutral refs even further.

No better still IMO to campaign for a completely independent (non Scottish) review body to assess consistency and identify any glaring instances of bias (hard to prove). Either that or non-Scottish officials which won't happen either.

Hibercelona
18-02-2014, 08:35 AM
Is it time to petition the SPFL about the chronic poor decisions we have faced at the hands of Craig Thomson?

Can someone in the know start one electronically, surly we must be able to get 10k names on a petition to say we don't want him near Hibs ever again.

They can chose to ignore it but we need to take a stand against the lack of the lack of professionalism shown,I have nothing against the man personally, but I don't believe we get a fair go, when he is in charge.

GGTTH

That's exactly what they'll do. Complete waste of time.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2014, 08:47 AM
You would need to prove that his decisions for the other teams he referees are not equally as dodgy.

And, given that he hasn't been picked to go to Brazil, I doubt that's possible.

Weststandwanab
18-02-2014, 08:58 AM
What's he done now?

Anyway you could probably get 20k signatures and it wouldn't make a difference - and rightly so otherwise rangers and Celtc would whittle down the neutral refs even further.

No better still IMO to campaign for a completely independent (non Scottish) review body to assess consistency and identify any glaring instances of bias (hard to prove). Either that or non-Scottish officials which won't happen either. Sadly I feel you are correct. that said there is always nine ways to skin a rabbit.

Finbar
18-02-2014, 09:01 AM
I'd really like to see referees held to account a bit more, not just Thomson, but mainly Thomson.
Was there ever an explanation from the ref in the Raith Rovers game as to why he over ruled the linesman for the offside goal?

Mikey
18-02-2014, 09:09 AM
You would need to prove that his decisions for the other teams he referees are not equally as dodgy.

And, given that he hasn't been picked to go to Brazil, I doubt that's possible.

He's been picked to go to Brazil because he never makes mistakes.

Well, in the eyes of the SFA he never makes mistakes.......

Biggie
18-02-2014, 09:23 AM
I'd really like to see referees held to account a bit more, not just Thomson, but mainly Thomson.
Was there ever an explanation from the ref in the Raith Rovers game as to why he over ruled the linesman for the offside goal?
Because hibs don't make a song and dance about it.....pointless anyway as the gfa just ignore it....they always back the refs...end of.
Slightly off topic, but what they need to lok at is the massive imbalance in playing power in Scottish football.....Celtc already 21 points clear...how do we make the league competitive again ?

Matty_Jack04
18-02-2014, 09:26 AM
I don't think he is anti hibs I just think he's a very very poor referee, we would be better trying for a review in the standards of all refs in Scotland because although he's IMO the worst he's not alone by any stretch of the imagination.
their not accountable for any bad performances, down south errors are punished by moving down to championship or lower, here the same refs get the big occasions consistently.
the guy who ref'd the last derby was the best I've seen all season and I can't remember seeing him in charge of a SPL game since

Geo_1875
18-02-2014, 09:42 AM
I don't think he is anti hibs I just think he's a very very poor referee, we would be better trying for a review in the standards of all refs in Scotland because although he's IMO the worst he's not alone by any stretch of the imagination.
their not accountable for any bad performances, down south errors are punished by moving down to championship or lower, here the same refs get the big occasions consistently.
the guy who ref'd the last derby was the best I've seen all season and I can't remember seeing him in charge of a SPL game since

Probably being punished for letting Hibs win a derby.

Hibbyradge
18-02-2014, 09:48 AM
He's been picked to go to Brazil because he never makes mistakes.

Well, in the eyes of the SFA he never makes mistakes.......

Has he?

Not according to this http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/02/26/13/55/2014fwcrefereesselected_neutral.pdf

Mikey
18-02-2014, 09:51 AM
Has he?

Not according to this http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/02/26/13/55/2014fwcrefereesselected_neutral.pdf

Sorry, misread your post. On the phone, small text, old eyes :greengrin

Carheenlea
18-02-2014, 09:55 AM
I kind of look forward now to games where Craig Thomson is in charge. An extra hurdle to overcome making victory sweeter and guaranteed a lengthy list of crazy decisions which gives us the opportunity to direct abuse in his direction, and who can honestly say they get no pleasure from barracking referees, Thomson in particular? :greengrin

hibbysam
18-02-2014, 10:24 AM
I don't think he is anti hibs I just think he's a very very poor referee, we would be better trying for a review in the standards of all refs in Scotland because although he's IMO the worst he's not alone by any stretch of the imagination.
their not accountable for any bad performances, down south errors are punished by moving down to championship or lower, here the same refs get the big occasions consistently.
the guy who ref'd the last derby was the best I've seen all season and I can't remember seeing him in charge of a SPL game since

That would be the same Bobby Madden that was absolutely atrocious on Saturday with some baffling calls both ways.

Twa Cairpets
18-02-2014, 10:25 AM
I don't think he is anti hibs I just think he's a very very poor referee, we would be better trying for a review in the standards of all refs in Scotland because although he's IMO the worst he's not alone by any stretch of the imagination.
their not accountable for any bad performances, down south errors are punished by moving down to championship or lower, here the same refs get the big occasions consistently.
the guy who ref'd the last derby was the best I've seen all season and I can't remember seeing him in charge of a SPL game since

Except of course the Hibs v Ross County game last weekend. And Partick v Ross County. And Celtic v Motherwell.

But apart form that you make a good point... :greengrin

Source http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/bobby-madden/profil/schiedsrichter_2214.html

Twa Cairpets
18-02-2014, 10:27 AM
That would be the same Bobby Madden that was absolutely atrocious on Saturday with some baffling calls both ways.

What was absolutely atrocious, and what was baffling? I thought apart from one booking RC should have had he was very good.

GoldenEagle
18-02-2014, 10:29 AM
I kind of look forward now to games where Craig Thomson is in charge. An extra hurdle to overcome making victory sweeter and guaranteed a lengthy list of crazy decisions which gives us the opportunity to direct abuse in his direction, and who can honestly say they get no pleasure from barracking referees, Thomson in particular? :greengrin


How are you getting to Kilmarnock?

hibbysam
18-02-2014, 10:34 AM
What was absolutely atrocious, and what was baffling? I thought apart from one booking RC should have had he was very good.

It's not about bookings, he got a lot of simple throw ins and free kicks wrong, the amount of times his assistant and he just looked at each other not knowing what way to give a decision... It probably says a lot about the standard of these guys that he was "very good" on Saturday in some eyes. But yes the booking they should have had was as easy a decision you'll see, just a cynical foul and he just waved the boy away.

Twa Cairpets
18-02-2014, 10:44 AM
It's not about bookings, he got a lot of simple throw ins and free kicks wrong, the amount of times his assistant and he just looked at each other not knowing what way to give a decision... It probably says a lot about the standard of these guys that he was "very good" on Saturday in some eyes. But yes the booking they should have had was as easy a decision you'll see, just a cynical foul and he just waved the boy away.

First part is wrong.
Different refs give different instructions to their assistants. What was clear on Saturday was that if the ref wasn't 100% sure he would look to his linesman before signalling, and they did this 5 or 6 times. I've been on the lines for refs who work like this, it's difficult to pull off without looking like you're hesitating, but it's actually a good way to do it and use your linesmen properly (unlike the muppet the previous week with the offside goal).

If the worst we've got to complain about is a few incorrect throws (and I genuinely can't remember any, as it happens) and a booking that should have been then we're setting a damn sight higher bar than is possibly fair.

Brightside
18-02-2014, 10:54 AM
If we play better and score more goals it doesnt matter who the ref is.

blackpoolhibs
18-02-2014, 11:06 AM
If we play better and score more goals it doesnt matter who the ref is.

The clock is ticking faster and faster. :aok:

Brightside
18-02-2014, 11:26 AM
The clock is ticking faster and faster. :aok:

haha. An announcement is coming very soon... :aok:

Leith Mo
18-02-2014, 11:32 AM
Not sure if a fans' petition to the SPFL would have any effect as more influence coming directly from the Club. I emailed them after the celtic game (won't get a reply as they don not reply on "Footballing Matters"):

"I would like to congratulate the team on their performance yesterday in spite of the extremely adverse conditions in which the match was played. The result was certainly not a true reflection of their efforts but was clearly influenced by the performance of one individual on the field of play, namely Craig Thomson.

This referee has a consistent history of making decisions against our club, or not making decisions in favour of our club, which was more than evident once again during yesterday's match. It is clearly time that the Board of Hibernian which so recently publicly championed the cause of "sporting integrity" make a stand against this individual who clearly wishes ill to our team. Failure to do so would surely only reinforce the opinion in some quarters that as a Club we are "soft" and unwilling to tackle difficult and sometimes controversial issues.

I like many of my fellow Hibs supporters will not contemplate attending any matches in which Craig Thomson is involved, such is the strength of feeling against this individual and his blatant anti-Hibs bias. Whilst I realise this will have a negative impact financially on the Club and also on the support for our players, I feel it is one of the few meaningful tactics which can be adopted to deal with this issue. The Board must take the lead on this issue and stand up for our supporters and our Club who are being cheated by this man."

Also noted that he gave St Mirren a penalty against Dundee Utd from roughly the same position he was standing in when Collins went down in the Celtic game - only difference being (in my opinion which I thnk TV pictures confirm) ours was a definite penalty whilst theirs was dubious to say the least.

We are soft as a Club if we do not do something about this cheat.

Gus Fring
18-02-2014, 12:13 PM
If we play better and score more goals it doesnt matter who the ref is.

Scoring goals doesn't matter much if the Referees are allowing goals that aren't goals for the opposition (vs Raith) and not allowing goals that are goals for Hibs (vs Ross County).

degenerated
18-02-2014, 12:36 PM
He's been picked to go to Brazil because he never makes mistakes.

Well, in the eyes of the SFA he never makes mistakes.......

I very much doubt he does make mistakes in our games, it's premeditated cheating.

JustSimplyHibs
18-02-2014, 01:39 PM
[QUOTE=Biggie;3910503]Because hibs don't make a song and dance about it.....pointless anyway as the gfa just ignore it....they always back the refs...end of.
Slightly off topic, but what they need to lok at is the massive imbalance in playing power in Scottish football.....Celtc already 21 points clear...how do we make the league competitive again ?[/QUOTE



Capping the wages or, have a maximum wage budget and if Selick choose to pay an imported player 70% while dividing the other 30% of their wage budget amongst the rest, then so be it!!!!

Back on topic, I blame the refs for the disappearance of fans at all clubs... If Scottish football had decent refs that were willing to allow the game flow instead of needlessly blowing the whistle for a wee fandan tripping over his own laces, then people might just pay to watch a game of football rather than watch a ref blow his whistle every other forty seconds...

Know a couple of guys that have mumbled the refs have been influential in their disappearance and it wasn't solely down to Hibs and Utd being poor over the last decade...

hibbysam
18-02-2014, 02:01 PM
First part is wrong.
Different refs give different instructions to their assistants. What was clear on Saturday was that if the ref wasn't 100% sure he would look to his linesman before signalling, and they did this 5 or 6 times. I've been on the lines for refs who work like this, it's difficult to pull off without looking like you're hesitating, but it's actually a good way to do it and use your linesmen properly (unlike the muppet the previous week with the offside goal).

If the worst we've got to complain about is a few incorrect throws (and I genuinely can't remember any, as it happens) and a booking that should have been then we're setting a damn sight higher bar than is possibly fair.

Not true at all... The ref quite clearly doesn't know which way to give it, so looks at his assistant for help, who is scared to make a call so therefore 5 seconds later the ref guesses as he hasn't a clue which way to give it...

Not giving a booking is a big call in itself as it totally alters a way in which that player plays for the rest of the game of he is given the yellow, and just gives him another tackle if he isn't given it... And I mean that was as blatant a booking your likely to see as he totally scythed down the player to stop hibs attacking as I think we were 2 on 2 or 3 on 2.

And throw ins and corners are the very least I'd expect even an average referee to get correct.. I can sympathise with goal line calls and offsides and fouls that happen at high speed and can be hard to call but not simple little decisions!

The only thing id praise madden for was hibs allowing of advantage but even then that sometimes lasted 2 or 3 passes which was pretty lengthy!

NAE NOOKIE
18-02-2014, 02:14 PM
[QUOTE=Biggie;3910503]Because hibs don't make a song and dance about it.....pointless anyway as the gfa just ignore it....they always back the refs...end of.
Slightly off topic, but what they need to lok at is the massive imbalance in playing power in Scottish football.....Celtc already 21 points clear...how do we make the league competitive again ?[/QUOTE



Capping the wages or, have a maximum wage budget and if Selick choose to pay an imported player 70% while dividing the other 30% of their wage budget amongst the rest, then so be it!!!!

Back on topic, I blame the refs for the disappearance of fans at all clubs... If Scottish football had decent refs that were willing to allow the game flow instead of needlessly blowing the whistle for a wee fandan tripping over his own laces, then people might just pay to watch a game of football rather than watch a ref blow his whistle every other forty seconds...

Know a couple of guys that have mumbled the refs have been influential in their disappearance and it wasn't solely down to Hibs and Utd being poor over the last decade...

In Germany Bayern Munich are 15 points clear ...... money talks and until some form of financial parity is introduced to all leagues in Europe the rich will prevail ....... simple.

tomf
18-02-2014, 02:56 PM
After the recent Celtic game a number of fans posted some comprehensve statistics and I created an article including that data for publication on this site concerning Mr Thomson. As far as I am aware it hasn't yet been published but I am willing to send the article to any media outlet that might give it more than a cursory glance. All I can say is that the statistics should be of concern to Hibernian Football Club and the football and refereeing authorities. However, my view is that no-one will take notice unless it gets taken up by the media and I do believe that there are decent journalists out there who are concerned about fair play and Scottish football's reputation. I imagine that the article will be pubished here soon but in the meantime, if anyone can give me names or contact details of any journalists they think might be prepared to give it some attention, I am happy to email it to them.

Seveno
18-02-2014, 03:23 PM
Not sure if a fans' petition to the SPFL would have any effect as more influence coming directly from the Club. I emailed them after the celtic game (won't get a reply as they don not reply on "Footballing Matters"):

"I would like to congratulate the team on their performance yesterday in spite of the extremely adverse conditions in which the match was played. The result was certainly not a true reflection of their efforts but was clearly influenced by the performance of one individual on the field of play, namely Craig Thomson.

This referee has a consistent history of making decisions against our club, or not making decisions in favour of our club, which was more than evident once again during yesterday's match. It is clearly time that the Board of Hibernian which so recently publicly championed the cause of "sporting integrity" make a stand against this individual who clearly wishes ill to our team. Failure to do so would surely only reinforce the opinion in some quarters that as a Club we are "soft" and unwilling to tackle difficult and sometimes controversial issues.

I like many of my fellow Hibs supporters will not contemplate attending any matches in which Craig Thomson is involved, such is the strength of feeling against this individual and his blatant anti-Hibs bias. Whilst I realise this will have a negative impact financially on the Club and also on the support for our players, I feel it is one of the few meaningful tactics which can be adopted to deal with this issue. The Board must take the lead on this issue and stand up for our supporters and our Club who are being cheated by this man."

Also noted that he gave St Mirren a penalty against Dundee Utd from roughly the same position he was standing in when Collins went down in the Celtic game - only difference being (in my opinion which I thnk TV pictures confirm) ours was a definite penalty whilst theirs was dubious to say the least.

We are soft as a Club if we do not do something about this cheat.

Boycotting games is just play daft and, as you say, only hurts the club. A far better tactic is to have a big Hibs support to motivate our team and to shout 'Cheat, Cheat, Cheat' at Thomson when he comes on and goes off at each half.

JustSimplyHibs
18-02-2014, 03:25 PM
[QUOTE=JustSimplyHibs;3910671]

In Germany Bayern Munich are 15 points clear ...... money talks and until some form of financial parity is introduced to all leagues in Europe the rich will prevail ....... simple.


We cannae compare the Scottish leagues with Germany, Spain, England, France and Italy (the Big 5) - for a start the population of their biggest cities is on par with the whole of Scotland.

How about we compare our leagues with Sweden, Denmark, Norway etc... What is the competition like there?

And yes i believe that if a wage budget were to be introduced within the Scottish leagues to aid competitiveness it would work... Selick dont have any money and will always struggle in Europe because of the TV financial clout of the Big 5 so it is pointless in them even thinking about competing in the Champions league let alone winning a game in the thing.

In Scotland i'd have a tight wage budget and non-home grown player restriction of up to 4 players named in the teamsheet.

Leith Mo
18-02-2014, 05:38 PM
You could try the guy at the Daily ****** who did the piece telling SKacel and that lot to stop crying about the signing embargo and face the facts behind it?

Ricky Bobby
18-02-2014, 05:56 PM
Don't know if the guy is a cheat, but he is certainly incompetent and i for one was delighted when he was'nt picked to go to Brazil. He has embarrassed Scottish Football on a number of occasions when he taken charge of Euro or International fixtures.

emerald green
18-02-2014, 06:17 PM
Scoring goals doesn't matter much if the Referees are allowing goals that aren't goals for the opposition (vs Raith) and not allowing goals that are goals for Hibs (vs Ross County).

I'll second that.:agree:

emerald green
18-02-2014, 06:23 PM
If Thomson had screwed over Celtic as many times as he's screwed over Hibs, Lennon would have been going daft about it, and his pals in the media would have crucified Thomson by now. He would have been finished ages ago. HFC just seem to take all the **** dished out to us.

Twa Cairpets
18-02-2014, 06:32 PM
Not true at all... The ref quite clearly doesn't know which way to give it, so looks at his assistant for help, who is scared to make a call so therefore 5 seconds later the ref guesses as he hasn't a clue which way to give it...

Not giving a booking is a big call in itself as it totally alters a way in which that player plays for the rest of the game of he is given the yellow, and just gives him another tackle if he isn't given it... And I mean that was as blatant a booking your likely to see as he totally scythed down the player to stop hibs attacking as I think we were 2 on 2 or 3 on 2.

And throw ins and corners are the very least I'd expect even an average referee to get correct.. I can sympathise with goal line calls and offsides and fouls that happen at high speed and can be hard to call but not simple little decisions!

The only thing id praise madden for was hibs allowing of advantage but even then that sometimes lasted 2 or 3 passes which was pretty lengthy!

Did you actually read my post.
I am a ref, and have been for years - not at this level, admittedly. I'm telling you, with as much of a "FACT!" emphasis as I can without knowing Madden, that what they did was planned and entirely understood. If you choose not to believe this is the case, then that's your prerogative but you're just plain wrong.

As for throws, yes, people make mistakes, but surprisingly rarely. You try making an instant call, say, for two players sliding in on the touch line, obscuring the ball and effectively both touching within microseconds of each other, or a tackle on the line when the ball is going out of play. It's a "simple little decision" insofar as a its impact on the game goes, bit it still happens at speed, doesn't it? Refs are human, and believe it or not, for the most part, most refs get most calls much more correct than we give them credit for, and ours are at least as competent (with one or two exceptions) as everywhere else on the planet.

WeeRussell
18-02-2014, 07:20 PM
If those that run the league truly believed (or as some on here would prefer to have it put - 'Wanted to Believe') that CT was genuinely deliberately making biased decisions to try and cost Hibs games and points he wouldn't be allowed to referee here full stop. You don't seriously see them saying 'yeah ok, no more Hibs game for you as you clearly are a cheat... just stick to the rest of the league' ?

We're not the first team to have it in for a particular referee (and CT isn't the first ref for Hibs fans to have something against) and neither will be the last.

I don't think it's time for a petition, no.

Kato
18-02-2014, 07:30 PM
most refs get most calls much more correct than we give them credit for


I 100% agree with that, except for several game changing calls made by Thomson against us. his That's not even bringing into question his yellow card ratio against us or his red card ratio against us. :wink: Those stats show it to be true.

Matty_Jack04
18-02-2014, 07:46 PM
Except of course the Hibs v Ross County game last weekend. And Partick v Ross County. And Celtic v Motherwell.

But apart form that you make a good point... :greengrin

Source http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/bobby-madden/profil/schiedsrichter_2214.html

Wasn't at the game last week nor seen highlights....no excuse for the other games though pretty sure I caught both those games on sportscene obviously selective viewing...he was decent in the derby though that point stands :)

Twa Cairpets
18-02-2014, 07:49 PM
I 100% agree with that, except for several game changing calls made by Thomson against us. his That's not even bringing into question his yellow card ratio against us or his red card ratio against us. :wink: Those stats show it to be true.

I defended CT - well, I described him as incompetent rather than biased- for ages. I agree that his stats against us are very, very hard to defend.
But the bottom line is that for the vast majority of games, refs make most of the calls right. I've howled at the moon due to some decisions I've thought of as being indefensible from my position 100 yards away at the back of the stand, only to realise that actually the ref got it right.


.

Kato
18-02-2014, 08:05 PM
But the bottom line is that for the vast majority of games, refs make most of the calls right. I've howled at the moon due to some decisions I've thought of as being indefensible from my position 100 yards away at the back of the stand, only to realise that actually the ref got it right.


.


I totally agree and recognise that feeling of being wrong in what you see at the time but I'll wager that you've seen things where you've been right. The fact you agree his stats are somehow skewed against us tells me he's fishy.

emerald green
18-02-2014, 08:05 PM
If those that run the league truly believed (or as some on here would prefer to have it put - 'Wanted to Believe') that CT was genuinely deliberately making biased decisions to try and cost Hibs games and points he wouldn't be allowed to referee here full stop. You don't seriously see them saying 'yeah ok, no more Hibs game for you as you clearly are a cheat... just stick to the rest of the league' ?

We're not the first team to have it in for a particular referee (and CT isn't the first ref for Hibs fans to have something against) and neither will be the last.

I don't think it's time for a petition, no.

Wrong way round mate. It's not that we "have it in for" him, rather he seems to have it in for Hibs. It's not that Hibs fans have something against CT, it's the other way about! That's how it looks to me when I observe him refereeing our games. He can't wait to get the cards out. If he is not a "cheat", then I do say he is biased against us. Why, I don't know. How else to explain many of his outrageous decisions against Hibs. Now and again - OK. All the time - there's something wrong. Are you honestly saying, given this guy's record in charge of Hibs matches, he is above reproach and we have no right to question his competence and/or integrity, or criticise him. It's well known that referees are bomb proof in Scotland. Bye the way, who are the other refs Hibs fans have had something against?

Scouse Hibee
18-02-2014, 08:47 PM
Unbelievable Jeff.

matty_f
18-02-2014, 09:39 PM
http://www.hibs.net/content.php?378-Craig-Thomson

New article on the hibs.net front page by tomf.

matty_f
18-02-2014, 09:42 PM
After the recent Celtic game a number of fans posted some comprehensve statistics and I created an article including that data for publication on this site concerning Mr Thomson. As far as I am aware it hasn't yet been published but I am willing to send the article to any media outlet that might give it more than a cursory glance. All I can say is that the statistics should be of concern to Hibernian Football Club and the football and refereeing authorities. However, my view is that no-one will take notice unless it gets taken up by the media and I do believe that there are decent journalists out there who are concerned about fair play and Scottish football's reputation. I imagine that the article will be pubished here soon but in the meantime, if anyone can give me names or contact details of any journalists they think might be prepared to give it some attention, I am happy to email it to them.

Here's your article:

http://www.hibs.net/content.php?378-Craig-Thomson

You could send the link to a few of the journalists on twitter?

Jonnyboy
18-02-2014, 09:44 PM
http://www.hibs.net/content.php?378-Craig-Thomson

New article on the hibs.net front page by tomf.

Well, that's the blue touch paper lit :wink:

nonshinyfinish
18-02-2014, 09:51 PM
Well, that's the green touch paper lit :wink:

FTFY. :wink:

Scouse Hibee
18-02-2014, 09:51 PM
Cue the standard thanks but means **** all response.

Martin
18-02-2014, 09:53 PM
That's us down to ten men then if he reads that :wink:

Jonnyboy
18-02-2014, 09:53 PM
Not true at all... The ref quite clearly doesn't know which way to give it, so looks at his assistant for help, who is scared to make a call so therefore 5 seconds later the ref guesses as he hasn't a clue which way to give it...

Not giving a booking is a big call in itself as it totally alters a way in which that player plays for the rest of the game of he is given the yellow, and just gives him another tackle if he isn't given it... And I mean that was as blatant a booking your likely to see as he totally scythed down the player to stop hibs attacking as I think we were 2 on 2 or 3 on 2.

And throw ins and corners are the very least I'd expect even an average referee to get correct.. I can sympathise with goal line calls and offsides and fouls that happen at high speed and can be hard to call but not simple little decisions!

The only thing id praise madden for was hibs allowing of advantage but even then that sometimes lasted 2 or 3 passes which was pretty lengthy!

IMO Madden did ok. He takes a few seconds to think about his decision rather than doing a Craig Thomson and bringing out his card/pointing to the spot before the fouled player has hit the deck.

cabbageandribs1875
18-02-2014, 09:54 PM
Craig Thomson,----- 17 games, 46 yellow



absolutely astonishing


the man is a cheat...FACT end of

BroxburnHibee
18-02-2014, 09:54 PM
That's us down to ten men then if he reads that :wink:

Think that article already shows he needs no excuse. Should email it to him direct and tell him we're watching :wink:

Scouse Hibee
18-02-2014, 09:58 PM
EEN should run that.

matty_f
18-02-2014, 10:01 PM
Think that article already shows he needs no excuse. Should email it to him direct and tell him we're watching :wink:

Exactly. :agree:

Dashing Bob S
18-02-2014, 10:02 PM
EEN should run that.

Wouldn't be holding my breath for that one!

But it's so validating to see that my paranoia is more than justified by the harsh, cold, impersonal data. And that the man is a loathsome, disgusting, biased CHEAT incapable of refereeing a Hibs game with any sense of fairness, justice and sporting integrity.

Thank you Tomf.

NadeAteMyLunch!
18-02-2014, 10:18 PM
Superb. His cheating couldn't be any more evident if he was to run around the pitch in a Hearts top, twirling his scarf round his head like a wee lassie.
Something HAS to be done. Sadly, this will be ignored, just like when we requested that he didn't get the final

Crab apple
18-02-2014, 10:19 PM
Thomson has always believed he is something special. It's always very dangerous when someones ambition greatly exceeds his abilities.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/scottish-premier/4031794/Scottish-referee-Craig-Thomson-gives-up-the-day-job.html

macca70
18-02-2014, 10:29 PM
You just need to do a search of him on YouTube. There's foreign teams have have put together compilation videos of his total incompetence.

He has a reputation for being absolutely useless all over Europe.

Crab apple
18-02-2014, 10:29 PM
Thomson is a crap referee. Much more concerning is that he is also biased against us. I still get angry at his cup final performance. Failing to send off that rodent Black, the penalty and the sending off. He's a cheat and we should be shouting about this. Apart from the petition what other (legal) ways do we have to let him know how we feel?

Bronson
18-02-2014, 10:31 PM
The man is a welt of the highest order, no doubt about it, but a petition would be really cringey. It won't get us anywhere and makes it look like we're always looking for an excuse (although he has done us a fair few times in the past).

Scottish officials in general are shocking. We get a bad decision against us nearly every week, as do many teams, it's not so much bias as it is being terrible at their job. That's where the problem lies for me, and no petition will change that.

emerald green
18-02-2014, 10:32 PM
If those that run the league truly believed (or as some on here would prefer to have it put - 'Wanted to Believe') that CT was genuinely deliberately making biased decisions to try and cost Hibs games and points he wouldn't be allowed to referee here full stop. You don't seriously see them saying 'yeah ok, no more Hibs game for you as you clearly are a cheat... just stick to the rest of the league' ?

We're not the first team to have it in for a particular referee (and CT isn't the first ref for Hibs fans to have something against) and neither will be the last.

I don't think it's time for a petition, no.

Further to my earlier post, please also see the post Hibernian v Craig Thomson (by tomf). Says it all really concerning Thomson. His record refereeing Hibs matches stinks to high heaven.

degenerated
18-02-2014, 10:41 PM
You just need to do a search of him on YouTube. There's foreign teams have have put together compilation videos of his total incompetence.

He has a reputation for being absolutely useless all over Europe.

It not just incompetence, although he certainly is that. When it comes to refereeing hibs games he does so with maroon tinted specs on.

emerald green
18-02-2014, 10:45 PM
http://www.hibs.net/content.php?378-Craig-Thomson

New article on the hibs.net front page by tomf.

Brilliant post. Thomson's record when refereeing Hibs matches really does stink to high heaven. I've moaned about referees for many years, but I've never gone as far as thinking that a referee has got some sort of agenda against our club. I await his performance at Killie with interest.

matty_f
18-02-2014, 10:49 PM
It not just incompetence, although he certainly is that. When it comes to refereeing hibs games he does so with maroon tinted specs on.
:agree:
There is far too much evidence to chalk his performances against us down to incompetence. He's a cheat.

Woody70x2
18-02-2014, 10:59 PM
Any breakdown on the 17 opposing teams that he refereed? How many times vs. Hearts, etc

Bostonhibby
18-02-2014, 11:00 PM
Having spent most of my working life making decisions based on rock solid statistical analysis and hard numbers I can confidently say that they only become devalued when they get into the hands of those that have a vested interest in deviating from the obvious and early conclusions that goods stats can give you.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the SPFL and their predecessors.

When it comes to any debate about why this particular ref does what he does, The raw data of this sample demonstrates what I call a strong preference, that it is against Hibs, is self evident.

The problem with analysing football matches in this way is that once you serve up the hard numbers the self interest groups who do not want to deal with what is staring them in the face usually have clever talkers who are not actually that good at dispassionate data analysis.

They spend the rest of their time discrediting the data and over emphasising mitigating factors, this in turn generates more debate that the media like and the integrity of the original data becomes lost in the spin. This could well be the effect of having a go at highlighting the pretty obvious statistical bias in the development of games that Mr Thomson referees involving one team as against any other. You could say for there to be an average there needs to be an extreme on the edge of the sample, Thomsons' is Hibs.

All that said and done, you only have to look at Dortmund V Malaga, amongst other non SPL games he has been involved in to realise that he could also just be useless. Irrespective though there is an undoubted deviation from the sample of games he referees that involve Hibs against any others, and more markedly when Hibs play Hearts. You could say that outside SPFL games he tries hard to enhance his reputation but is just hopelessly out his depth so when he reverts back to the pond where he is encouraged to think he is a big fish he reverts to type and his preference goes unchecked.

degenerated
18-02-2014, 11:00 PM
:agree:
There is far too much evidence to chalk his performances against us down to incompetence. He's a cheat.

One really has to wonder what his motives are for this, it's not like it's even subtle.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/19/u6ebu3y9.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/19/ede6e9a3.jpg

snooky
18-02-2014, 11:05 PM
Nothing will be done .... ever.
Not because of CT but because if he is exposed as a cheat (and BTW, he is one) then a big jar of worms is opened and years of refs cheating in favour of the OF will be questioned.
The SFA ostriches will forever keep their heids doon & bums in the air on this subject, trust me.

Bostonhibby
18-02-2014, 11:08 PM
Nothing will be done .... ever.
Not because of CT but because if he is exposed as a cheat then a big jar of worms is opened and years of refs cheating in favour of the OF will be questioned.
The SFA ostriches will forever keep their heids doon & bums in the air on this subject, trust me.

:agree:

brog
18-02-2014, 11:18 PM
I still subscribe to the incompetence theory but that's an excellently researched & presented article. I was impressed with the balance & the recognition that the timing of decisions may be more important than the bare statistic, eg a red card after 10 mins is obviously more damaging than one after 90 but the stats won't show that. A good example was the Aberdeen game a couple of seasons ago where Thomson wrongly gave Dons a pen, Pawlett was subsequently given a ban for diving, then late in the game Pawlett was wrongly sent off. On the face of it the 2 decisions may cancel each other out but the pen won Aberdeen the game. Only CT however could get 2 major decisions re 1 player so wrong that the player successfully appealed one ban but was given another! I am however intrigued as to why we get this guy twice as much as Callum Murray who I rate highest of all our refs.

tomf
18-02-2014, 11:28 PM
I am happy to send the article to anyone in the media. I know that there was a Hibs friendly journalist on Off The Ball the other week (I think it was the Saturday before the we played a game on the Sunday). If anyone has any names and / or contact details for anyone in the media I will email them the article. I hear what people are saying about the chances of anything changing but I am one of life's optimists...I'm a Hibby after all. I just want the same as a fellow poster on the thread, namely, I would like somone to prove to me, statistically, that Mr Thomson is a fair an unbiased referee. I am happy to accept any objective argument.

ehf
18-02-2014, 11:32 PM
One really has to wonder what his motives are for this, it's not like it's even subtle.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/19/u6ebu3y9.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/19/ede6e9a3.jpg

That actually makes me physically sick.

monktonharp
18-02-2014, 11:39 PM
One really has to wonder what his motives are for this, it's not like it's even subtle.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/19/u6ebu3y9.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/19/ede6e9a3.jpgthat's the one that does it for me. his superiors should have carpeted him on it, but no chance. he can always say, I did not know the schoolboys would try this:rolleyes:

spike220
19-02-2014, 12:40 AM
The fact of the matter is CT has done more damage to Hibs than any of the past manager (such as CC) who others have (rightly or wrongly) protested about. So why shouldn't we protest about CT performances against Hibs?

spike220
19-02-2014, 12:41 AM
Those stats make for a sobering read!

Hermit Crab
19-02-2014, 03:51 AM
that's the one that does it for me. his superiors should have carpeted him on it, but no chance. he can always say, I did not know the schoolboys would try this:rolleyes:

I'm sure that's a fake. It's been going around for ages now.

SouthMoroccoStu
19-02-2014, 05:24 AM
I'm sure that's a fake. It's been going around for ages now.

Not a fake.

Shows his true colours, stupidity and the appalling level of judgement and incompetence

Sums up the SFA that this hasn't been addressed

Robinho08
19-02-2014, 07:18 AM
Need to get this article to the press, write to Hibs. Do whatever it takes to get this public.

Deansy
19-02-2014, 08:02 AM
Excellent piece of work but until there's absolute 100%, cast-iron proof (i.e caught taking money or recorded accepting money) the people at Hampden will continue to insist that our referees are clean. They KNOW they're not, we KNOW they're not but until someone's actually caught ........

Onion
19-02-2014, 08:04 AM
Interesting article which raises serious questions ... but will go nowhere.

The problem is Thomson can simply defuse this within two or three matches by awarding Hibs a few cheap and meaningless pens or sending a few opponents off in the last minute. If he's manipulating games, as suggested, he'll think nothing of covering his own arse in the least damaging way or start to focus on the games that really matter. Any accusation of bias would then look like paranoia to the casual observer. A lot of fickle Hibs fans would also turn their attention to other things. This is no different to the heat Petrie was getting before Butcher was appointed. Now every thing's OK again :cb

Hibercelona
19-02-2014, 08:18 AM
Interesting article which raises serious questions ... but will go nowhere.

The problem is Thomson can simply defuse this within two or three matches by awarding Hibs a few cheap and meaningless pens or sending a few opponents off in the last minute. If he's manipulating games, as suggested, he'll think nothing of covering his own arse in the least damaging way or start to focus on the games that really matter. Any accusation of bias would then look like paranoia to the casual observer. A lot of fickle Hibs fans would also turn their attention to other things. This is no different to the heat Petrie was getting before Butcher was appointed. Now every thing's OK again :cb

Nail on head really.

The real statistics aren't in the figures, but in the way that they affected us.

He could manipulate those figures in the future to make them look less against us, simply by awarding us meaningless decisions that won't effect the overall outcome.

ehf
19-02-2014, 08:34 AM
Interesting article which raises serious questions ... but will go nowhere.

The problem is Thomson can simply defuse this within two or three matches by awarding Hibs a few cheap and meaningless pens or sending a few opponents off in the last minute. If he's manipulating games, as suggested, he'll think nothing of covering his own arse in the least damaging way or start to focus on the games that really matter. Any accusation of bias would then look like paranoia to the casual observer. A lot of fickle Hibs fans would also turn their attention to other things. This is no different to the heat Petrie was getting before Butcher was appointed. Now every thing's OK again :cb

Disagree; he just can't help himself from doing us down. Quite clear from his body language and whole demeanour, eg when pointing to the spot to aŵard a penalty against us, you can see he's absolutely creaming himself. Probably has to wear incontinence pants under his shorts whenever he gets our game.

tomf
19-02-2014, 01:46 PM
Oh well; I am somewhat concerned about the consequences but I have sent the article to Gordon Smart at the Scottish Sun, David Hardie at The Scotsman / Edinburgh Evening News, the SPFL and the Scottish PFA. Refereeng decisions cost matches, points, league places and revenue. All I have asked for is some consideration and a response in order to refute the implicatons of the statistics. Fingers crossed.

silverhibee
19-02-2014, 03:24 PM
Oh well; I am somewhat concerned about the consequences but I have sent the article to Gordon Smart at the Scottish Sun, David Hardie at The Scotsman / Edinburgh Evening News, the SPFL and the Scottish PFA. Refereeng decisions cost matches, points, league places and revenue. All I have asked for is some consideration and a response in order to refute the implicatons of the statistics. Fingers crossed.

Maybe worth sending it to Tom English. https://twitter.com/TomEnglishSport

Dashing Bob S
19-02-2014, 03:28 PM
Nail on head really.

The real statistics aren't in the figures, but in the way that they affected us.

He could manipulate those figures in the future to make them look less against us, simply by awarding us meaningless decisions that won't effect the overall outcome.


Let him start asap with the bookings. 'Thomson - The Hibernian Era'. I look forward to it.

Viva_Palmeiras
19-02-2014, 05:28 PM
Maybe worth sending it to Tom English. https://twitter.com/TomEnglishSport

I've tried on after his most recent debacle - Tom doesn't seem to be biting on this one...

emerald green
19-02-2014, 05:29 PM
Oh well; I am somewhat concerned about the consequences but I have sent the article to Gordon Smart at the Scottish Sun, David Hardie at The Scotsman / Edinburgh Evening News, the SPFL and the Scottish PFA. Refereeng decisions cost matches, points, league places and revenue. All I have asked for is some consideration and a response in order to refute the implicatons of the statistics. Fingers crossed.

Well done mate. At least you have tried. Should be interesting to see what sort of responses you get, if any.

Danderhall Hibs
19-02-2014, 06:09 PM
I've tried on after his most recent debacle - Tom doesn't seem to be biting on this one...

He's not a journalist just now is he? Thought he took his redundancy and was taking a break?

brog
19-02-2014, 06:35 PM
Again, an excellent & well researched article. Of course the stats don't tell the whole story, eg the denial of a stonewall penalty against Celtc will never be properly represented in the stats. IIRC CT gave a penalty in almost identical circumstances a week or 2 earlier. If anyone is able to post both videos that would be very helpful.

Keith_M
19-02-2014, 07:03 PM
http://www.hibs.net/content.php?378-Craig-Thomson

New article on the hibs.net front page by tomf.


Matty, thanks for the article and all the hard work you must have put into it.




One thing I'm a bit confused about is this...

Yellows awarded against Hibernian / Reds awarded against Hibernian / Penalties awarded for Hibernian
&
Yellows awarded against opposition / Reds awarded against opposition / Penalties awarded for opposition /


Shouldn't that read 'Penalties awarded against Hibernian' and 'Penalties awarded against the opposition'?

Kato
19-02-2014, 07:09 PM
Of course the stats don't tell the whole story, eg the denial of a stonewall penalty against Celtc will never be properly represented in the stats.

:agree:

Really tricky trying to recall all the "didn't gets", including opposition players who didn't get a yellow/red.

Greenblood70
19-02-2014, 07:33 PM
About time the club went after this CHEAT with the full glare of publicity.

UEFA knows he's incompetent, we know he's a cheat, he's even an incompetent cheat as the figures as so damning as to be beyond any other interpretation.

Its getting to the stage where some sort of boycott of Hibs games involving him should be organised. What's the point in watching a game when there is a huge question mark over the impartiality of the referee to give fair and unbiased decisions against one team.

The man is an absolute ****bag and I'd love to see his refereeing career in tatters.

malcolm
19-02-2014, 07:55 PM
The statistics quoted only cover very recent games but his questionable performances go back a lot longer - he appeared in my cartoons as far back as early 2008 :wink:

12056

12057

matty_f
19-02-2014, 08:47 PM
Matty, thanks for the article and all the hard work you must have put into it.




One thing I'm a bit confused about is this...

Yellows awarded against Hibernian / Reds awarded against Hibernian / Penalties awarded for Hibernian
&
Yellows awarded against opposition / Reds awarded against opposition / Penalties awarded for opposition /


Shouldn't that read 'Penalties awarded against Hibernian' and 'Penalties awarded against the opposition'?
I never wrote it chief, just published it. The author is tomf. :aok:

Smiggy 7-0
19-02-2014, 08:54 PM
Oh well; I am somewhat concerned about the consequences but I have sent the article to Gordon Smart at the Scottish Sun, David Hardie at The Scotsman / Edinburgh Evening News, the SPFL and the Scottish PFA. Refereeng decisions cost matches, points, league places and revenue. All I have asked for is some consideration and a response in order to refute the implicatons of the statistics. Fingers crossed. What about GORDON WADDELL Sunday Mail or LIAM McLEOD at the BBC (ha ha).

Jack
20-02-2014, 07:20 AM
Oh well; I am somewhat concerned about the consequences but I have sent the article to Gordon Smart at the Scottish Sun, David Hardie at The Scotsman / Edinburgh Evening News, the SPFL and the Scottish PFA. Refereeng decisions cost matches, points, league places and revenue. All I have asked for is some consideration and a response in order to refute the implicatons of the statistics. Fingers crossed.

Well done.

Boyle89
20-02-2014, 11:23 AM
:agree:

Really tricky trying to recall all the "didn't gets", including opposition players who didn't get a yellow/red.
I'm sure we could collectively remember 'big ones'. Peter pawlet and Ian black for starters ;).

Brightside
20-02-2014, 12:20 PM
Why does he get International and Euro games then?

brog
20-02-2014, 03:50 PM
Why does he get International and Euro games then?

I'm not sure he's getting too many now, he's not going to Brazil. This is what Pellegrini said about him after the infamous Malaga-Dortmund CL match. Oh, & his bestie, Steve McLean was involved in that fiasco as well!

“It was like there wasn’t a referee on the pitch at the end.

“It was chaos in the closing stages when there were six or seven things which went unpunished in our area – shoving and elbowing included.

“Two of their players should have been given a red card and there was a double offside for their third goal. It was like they would not allow us to win. There was a chain of mistakes.”

JimBHibees
20-02-2014, 04:00 PM
Anyone see the penalty ICT didnt get when Hamill saved a goal bound shot. Appreciate it was close however he actually saved it. Incredible decision.

SaulGoodman
20-02-2014, 04:02 PM
Why does he get International and Euro games then?

Because the SFA keep bigging him up as our best ref.

Didn't take Pellegrini long to work him out

21.05.2016
20-02-2014, 05:18 PM
Well done putting that together but doesn't tell us anything we don't already know, that he is a cheat of the highest order. We all know he has affections for the maroon inbreeded tramps but he's clearly demonstarted time after time after time that he is not proffesional enough to put that aside and conduct his refereeing in a fair, unbiased way.

Some of his decisions are so horrendously bad that it's not incompetance but just plain cheating pure and simple. He has become so awfully terrible against us that it's become a complete joke.

Onion
20-02-2014, 05:31 PM
Anyone see the penalty ICT didnt get when Hamill saved a goal bound shot. Appreciate it was close however he actually saved it. Incredible decision.

Yip, saw that and immediately thought if that was a Hibs player, a pen was a certainty.

Just keeps Thompson's incredible record of not awarding pens against the Yams going.

Onion
20-02-2014, 05:39 PM
Well done putting that together but doesn't tell us anything we don't already know, that he is a cheat of the highest order. We all know he has affections for the maroon inbreeded tramps but he's clearly demonstarted time after time after time that he is not proffesional enough to put that aside and conduct his refereeing in a fair, unbiased way.

Some of his decisions are so horrendously bad that it's not incompetance but just plain cheating pure and simple. He has become so awfully terrible against us that it's become a complete joke.

There's a huge difference between quant and qual analysis. Few journos are going to listen seriously to fans bleating on about unfair referees - that's happens all the time. But it's very difficult to ignore raw, objective statistics which paint a disturbing picture.

Stantons Angel
20-02-2014, 05:58 PM
Yip, saw that and immediately thought if that was a Hibs player, a pen was a certainty.

Just keeps Thompson's incredible record of not awarding pens against the Yams going.

i saw that too and just shook my head in disbelief!!

If that had been a Hibs player he'd have been sent off and the penalty given.

Statistics dont lie and as i have said before i believe them to be true. Someone somewhere must listen to what they show?

They show a biased view point against one team in particular in EVERY way you look at them! something has to be done about this man!

Kato
20-02-2014, 06:19 PM
it's very difficult to ignore raw, objective statistics which paint a disturbing picture.

I'm sure you'll find most football journalists/reporters in Scotland will find it very easy.

spike220
20-02-2014, 10:39 PM
Oh well; I am somewhat concerned about the consequences but I have sent the article to Gordon Smart at the Scottish Sun, David Hardie at The Scotsman / Edinburgh Evening News, the SPFL and the Scottish PFA. Refereeing decisions cost matches, points, league places and revenue. All I have asked for is some consideration and a response in order to refute the implications of the statistics. Fingers crossed.

I wonder if the bookmakers would be interested too!

spike220
20-02-2014, 10:44 PM
I wonder if the bookmakers would be interested too!

If every hibs fan sticks 2 quid on CT handing our more yellow cards to hibs than the opposition for the next couple of games, the bookies might report it themselves.

spike220
20-02-2014, 10:50 PM
that's the one that does it for me. his superiors should have carpeted him on it, but no chance. he can always say, I did not know the schoolboys would try this:rolleyes:

So why is he still smiling then???

spike220
20-02-2014, 10:51 PM
After the recent Celtic game a number of fans posted some comprehensve statistics and I created an article including that data for publication on this site concerning Mr Thomson. As far as I am aware it hasn't yet been published but I am willing to send the article to any media outlet that might give it more than a cursory glance. All I can say is that the statistics should be of concern to Hibernian Football Club and the football and refereeing authorities. However, my view is that no-one will take notice unless it gets taken up by the media and I do believe that there are decent journalists out there who are concerned about fair play and Scottish football's reputation. I imagine that the article will be pubished here soon but in the meantime, if anyone can give me names or contact details of any journalists they think might be prepared to give it some attention, I am happy to email it to them.

Admins - Can you merge this with the other thread please.

livi hibs 1875
21-02-2014, 11:16 AM
Well tell us then , I take its more biased cheating from this cretin in some way

Weststandwanab
21-02-2014, 11:33 AM
Well tell us then , I take its more biased cheating from this cretin in some way

Yes, please tell us.

Hibercelona
21-02-2014, 11:42 AM
So why is he still smiling then???

Because he's a hertz tramp surrounded by teenagers.

Hibercelona
21-02-2014, 01:41 PM
Whats your great solution then?

Or are you just one of those people who pretends to have a solution to a problem, just to hold people in suspense?

KeithTheHibby
21-02-2014, 01:41 PM
that's the one that does it for me. his superiors should have carpeted him on it, but no chance. he can always say, I did not know the schoolboys would try this:rolleyes:

Fair point however he knows one of them is wearing a yam strip.

Cabbage East
21-02-2014, 02:11 PM
Stuff like this isn't really going to help.

Why? Do you think he's reading this like?

Right everyone, stop saying nasty stuff about Craig Thompson because..........................................i t won't help.

:faf:

JimBHibees
21-02-2014, 02:51 PM
:agree:

Really tricky trying to recall all the "didn't gets", including opposition players who didn't get a yellow/red.

Agree a two footed stick on red card tackle by Adam Hammell on Lewis Stevenson in the first semi final springs to mind. Of course Hammell then won the penalty in the replay.

silverhibee
21-02-2014, 03:30 PM
What about GORDON WADDELL Sunday Mail or LIAM McLEOD at the BBC (ha ha).


Or even Ewan Murray, wonder what his thoughts on the cheat would be. :wink: :greengrin

truehibernian
21-02-2014, 05:39 PM
How about all clubbing together, putting a sizeable charity bet wedge on 'Killie getting a penalty' and 'Hibs getting a man sent off' , then publicise the bet on social media !

He hates us that much he'd even deny us that win too no doubt, probably giving us a pen and sending off Boyd as a 'GIRFUY' !!

Reverse psychology 😀

Hibernia&Alba
21-02-2014, 05:44 PM
I'm looking forward to giving that walloper dug's abuse tomorrow

andyf5
22-02-2014, 09:42 AM
Having spent most of my working life making decisions based on rock solid statistical analysis and hard numbers I can confidently say that they only become devalued when they get into the hands of those that have a vested interest in deviating from the obvious and early conclusions that goods stats can give you.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the SPFL and their predecessors.

When it comes to any debate about why this particular ref does what he does, The raw data of this sample demonstrates what I call a strong preference, that it is against Hibs, is self evident.

The problem with analysing football matches in this way is that once you serve up the hard numbers the self interest groups who do not want to deal with what is staring them in the face usually have clever talkers who are not actually that good at dispassionate data analysis.

They spend the rest of their time discrediting the data and over emphasising mitigating factors, this in turn generates more debate that the media like and the integrity of the original data becomes lost in the spin. This could well be the effect of having a go at highlighting the pretty obvious statistical bias in the development of games that Mr Thomson referees involving one team as against any other. You could say for there to be an average there needs to be an extreme on the edge of the sample, Thomsons' is Hibs.

All that said and done, you only have to look at Dortmund V Malaga, amongst other non SPL games he has been involved in to realise that he could also just be useless. Irrespective though there is an undoubted deviation from the sample of games he referees that involve Hibs against any others, and more markedly when Hibs play Hearts. You could say that outside SPFL games he tries hard to enhance his reputation but is just hopelessly out his depth so when he reverts back to the pond where he is encouraged to think he is a big fish he reverts to type and his preference goes unchecked.

I tend to agree. Looking at the stats here http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/thomson/profil/schiedsrichter_149.html he appears to be card happy in big games and not very good. Have you seen this youtube video about him? Says it all for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tvewlR39Mc

weonlywon6-2
22-02-2014, 09:44 AM
the mans a phanni

Nailrod
22-02-2014, 09:46 AM
Over the last couple of days I did some serious digging into Thomson's reffing of Hibs, and I thought I had come up with some fairly striking stuff. I looked at stats from the individual matches he has reffed.

I measured how severely he's carded each team (counting 1 for a yellow, 2 for a double yellow, and 3 for a straight red) Of the 32 matches he's reffed in his career, he's carded the opposition more severely than Hibs on 4 occasions. But 3 of these were in the first 3 Hibs games he reffed, going back to 2005-06. That means that going back 7 years and 29 games, he's carded the opposition more severely than Hibs in 1 match. Over the same period, he's carded Hibs more severely than the opposition in 21 matches.

I also looked at who was the first player to be booked in each match. He's booked an opposition player first in 9 matches. But again, almost all of these matches were at the start of his career. Going back 5 years and 24 matches, he's booked an opposition player first in 2 matches and a Hibs player first in 22 matches.

I couldn't believe that any other ref could possibly be as biased against any other team, and I thought there might be enough there to actually launch some kind of formal action against Thomson, which is why I contacted admin to suggest that they take this thread down. I didn't see any point in offering hostages to fortune in the form of mindless abuse that he or his representatives might be able to use to undermine our case.

However, as a cross check I also looked at some other refs and other teams. One of them was Ian Brines and Hearts, and to be honest the imbalance in his overall stats, while not as extreme as Thomson v. Hibs, is pretty harsh. It is possible that on a game by game basis he's been much more balanced, but I haven't checked out the individual matches. I'm not planning to go ahead and do that - I've spent enough time on it and for various reasons I've lost interest in the subject. I don't want to waste a lot of time establishing that Thomson's apparent bias against Hibs isn't really any different from other refs with other clubs, and that we don't really have any cause for action.

Anyway these were my findings - make of them what you will.

Later add:
There was one 'amusing' cameo from the Hearts matches. I had already established that he had never carded Hearts more severely than Hibs in any of the 6 games he has reffed. But - miracle of miracles! - he did actually book a Hearts player first in one match!

Five minutes later he gave Fletcher a straight red.

andyf5
22-02-2014, 10:16 AM
Over the last couple of days I did some serious digging into Thomson's reffing of Hibs, and I thought I had come up with some fairly striking stuff. I looked at stats from the individual matches he has reffed.

I measured how severely he's carded each team (counting 1 for a yellow, 2 for a double yellow, and 3 for a straight red) Of the 32 matches he's reffed in his career, he's carded the opposition more severely than Hibs on 4 occasions. But 3 of these were in the first 3 Hibs games he reffed, going back to 2005-06. That means that going back 7 years and 29 games, he's carded the opposition more severely than Hibs in 1 match. Over the same period, he's carded Hibs more severely than the opposition in 21 matches.

I also looked at who was the first player to be booked in each match. He's booked an opposition player first in 9 matches. But again, almost all of these matches were at the start of his career. Going back 5 years and 24 matches, he's booked an opposition player first in 2 matches and a Hibs player first in 22 matches.

I couldn't believe that any other ref could possibly be as biased against any other team, and I thought there might be enough there to actually launch some kind of formal action against Thomson, which is why I contacted admin to suggest that they take this thread down. I didn't see any point in offering hostages to fortune in the form of mindless abuse that he or his representatives might be able to use to undermine our case.

However, as a cross check I also looked at some other refs and other teams. One of them was Ian Brines and Hearts, and to be honest the imbalance in his overall stats, while not as extreme as Thomson v. Hibs, is pretty harsh. It is possible that on a game by game basis he's been much more balanced, but I haven't checked out the individual matches. I'm not planning to go ahead and do that - I've spent enough time on it and for various reasons I've lost interest in the subject. I don't want to waste a lot of time establishing that Thomson's apparent bias against Hibs isn't really any different from other refs with other clubs, and that we don't really have any cause for action.

Anyway these were my findings - make of them what you will.

Later add:
There was one 'amusing' cameo from the Hearts matches. I had already established that he had never carded Hearts more severely than Hibs in any of the 6 games he has reffed. But - miracle of miracles! - he did actually book a Hearts player first in one match!

Five minutes later he gave Fletcher a straight red.
I crossed checked his performance against other teams and find him just as biased. He's card happy and not very good. If you start from a position of "he's a cheat" and then you can probably find a statistic that looks strange. I checked here http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/thomson/profil/schiedsrichter_149.html and if you look at the Hearts games he's refereed you can find him booking them more than the opposition and frequently first.

I'm not looking forward to his performance today as he will dish out cards, make poor decisions and probably give the 50/50's their way just to show us who's boss...

hibbymick
22-02-2014, 10:32 AM
It will be worse than normal for us today...........................he will be raging after watching his beloved getting pumped.

snooky
22-02-2014, 10:34 AM
I tend to agree. Looking at the stats here http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/thomson/profil/schiedsrichter_149.html he appears to be card happy in big games and not very good. Have you seen this youtube video about him? Says it all for me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tvewlR39Mc

Highlights can be selective of incidents however, if this CT extravaganza is a fair reflection of the game (& I have no problem in believing it is), then it show that the man is a total incompetent. That said he has a strange trait of being one-sidedly incompetent.
He's a sham, showman and scheizenhousen.

Jack
22-02-2014, 10:51 AM
As a support we could demonstrate our displeasure at his performances by boycotting away games where he is the referee.

Nailrod
22-02-2014, 10:51 AM
I crossed checked his performance against other teams and find him just as biased. He's card happy and not very good. If you start from a position of "he's a cheat" and then you can probably find a statistic that looks strange. I checked here http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/thomson/profil/schiedsrichter_149.html and if you look at the Hearts games he's refereed you can find him booking them more than the opposition and frequently first.

I'm not looking forward to his performance today as he will dish out cards, make poor decisions and probably give the 50/50's their way just to show us who's boss...
No.
In the Hearts games he's reffed he's issued Hearts with 71 yellows, 0 double yellows, and 2 straight reds.
He's issued opposition teams with 80 yellows, 4 double yellows and 6 straight reds.

He's given more double yellows and straight reds to the opposition in Hearts games than any other team.

Smartie
22-02-2014, 11:04 AM
I can't believe that he won't have been alerted to all this prior to today's game and I reckon he will probably try to start levelling things up a bit. Today's game ultimately has little meaning so he can take a bit of heat off himself. I predict that it will be the Killie fans complaining tonight.

As soon as he refs a big game with us again, normal service will be resumed.


I'd also be interested in how many Hibs players have been booked later in games for dissent, incredulous at the decisions he's come away with earlier in the game.

andyf5
22-02-2014, 11:26 AM
No.
In the Hearts games he's reffed he's issued Hearts with 71 yellows, 0 double yellows, and 2 straight reds.
He's issued opposition teams with 80 yellows, 4 double yellows and 6 straight reds.

He's given more double yellows and straight reds to the opposition in Hearts games than any other team.

I should have said that I only looked at this season. The numbers according to the web site are

Team and yellow cards against

hearts 4 hibs 4
hearts 2 st mirren 2
dundee uts 2 hearts 3
ICT 1 Hearts 2

In total for 2013/14 Hearts players have had 11 yellows against them while opposition players only 9

So I still think he's just card happy and not very good. Look at his European record where he would have no agenda.

andyf5
22-02-2014, 11:36 AM
and for 2012/13 the results are

team and yellow cards against

st mirren 2 hearts 3
celtic 1 hearts 2
hearts 2 dundee 3
hearts 0 motherwell 2
hearts 1 kilmarnock 1

So in that season 8 cards against hearts 9 cards against opposition.

The trend is for him to book the away team more frequently which doesn't augur well for today....

Jack
22-02-2014, 06:29 PM
Today's stats at least confirm some things.

Away team booked most.

Hibs defensive players booked early. When it could affect the outcome of the match.

Their goalie booked late. When it's less likely to affect the outcome.

Hibs didn't win.

Centre Hawf
22-02-2014, 08:05 PM
Today's stats at least confirm some things.

Away team booked most.

Hibs defensive players booked early. When it could affect the outcome of the match.

Their goalie booked late. When it's less likely to affect the outcome.

Hibs didn't win.

He had a good game today actually

Ronniekirk
23-02-2014, 12:04 PM
He had a good game today actually
have to agree put the bias to one side and overall he had a good game Maybe he read the thread and it worked in our favour Tiawo is the type of player that goes in a looks to win tackles so he is likely to pick up bookings as he makes so many tackles and won't get them all right when we are under pressure .Without him in there yesterday they would have been more potent going forward in latter third of pitch he has been immense since Butcher brought him back and he is also having more shots on goal as well .Him and Stanton seem to be the best combo in there .When Craig came on we and he seemed to go too deep when defending and they were getting too Mutch time and space to pick passes and pin us back ,but even at that we still looked likelier side to win game

Phil D. Rolls
23-02-2014, 01:57 PM
Sorry, I've no doubt that the man is a plonker, but this thread is pitiful. There is no concrete evidence that he is any more biased than the next man.

A lot of stuff on here is just silly, in that it uses the most obscure evidence to say he's a cheat. For most of the points made there are simple counter arguments.

For example, has anybody considered the possibility that a succession of poor Hibs sides has resorted to fouling to compensate for lack of skill. Just as plausible a reason for the increase in cards issued against us.

I'd like to see the same criteria being applied to all the refs that have handled our games. If he is a stick out then, there could be a case to answer.

Jack Hackett
23-02-2014, 02:19 PM
Sorry, I've no doubt that the man is a plonker, but this thread is pitiful. There is no concrete evidence that he is any more biased than the next man.

A lot of stuff on here is just silly, in that it uses the most obscure evidence to say he's a cheat. For most of the points made there are simple counter arguments.

For example, has anybody considered the possibility that a succession of poor Hibs sides has resorted to fouling to compensate for lack of skill. Just as plausible a reason for the increase in cards issued against us.

I'd like to see the same criteria being applied to all the refs that have handled our games. If he is a stick out then, there could be a case to answer.

You didn't read tomf's article then?



Referee / Games / Yellows awarded against Hibernian / Reds awarded against Hibernian / Penalties awarded for Hibernian / Average yellows per game

Crawford Allan,------- 6 games, 7 yellow, 1 red, 1 pen, average yellow cards per game 1.17
John Beaton,--------- 5 games, 12 yellow, 1 red, 1 pen, average 2.40
Iain Brines,----------- 7 games, 4 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 0.57
Craig Charleston,------3 games, 6 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 2.00
Kevin Clancy,---------4 games, 5 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 1.50
Willie Collum,-------- 14 games, 21 yellow, 1 red, 2 pen, average 1.5
Brian Colvin,--------- 3 games, 3 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 1.00
Mike Conroy,---------2 games, 2 yellow, 0 red, 1 pen, average 1.00
Stephen Finnie,------3 games, 6 yellow, 1 red, 0 pen, average 2.00
Bobby Madden,----- 13 games, 16 yellow, 0 red, 1 pen, average 1.23
John McKendrick,---- 1 game, 1 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 1.00
Steve McLean,----- 13 games, 25 yellow, 1 red, 3 pens, average 1.92
Alan Muir,----------- 5 games, 12 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 2.40
Calum Murray,------- 7 games, 10 yellows, 0 red, 0 pen, average 1.43
Euan Norris,--------- 5 games, 8 yellows, 0 red, 2 pens, average 1.60
Steve O’Reilly,------- 6 games, 16 yellow, 0 red, 2 pens, average 2.67
Charlie Richmond,---- 1 games, 1 yellow, 0 red, 1 pen, average 1.00
George Salmond,-----1 games, 1 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 1.00
Craig Thomson,----- 17 games, 46 yellow, 2 red, 0 pen, average 2.71
B. Winter,----------- 1 games, 2 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 2.00

Total 117 games, 181 yellow, 7 red, 14 pens for. Average yellow per game 1.54

Referee / Games / Yellows awarded against opposition / Reds awarded against opposition / Penalties awarded for opposition / Average yellows per game

Crawford Allan,------- 4 games, 6 yellow, 2 red, 1 pen, average yellow cards per game 1.50
John Beaton,--------- 3 games, 5 yellow,0 red, 1 pen, average 1.67
Iain Brines,----------- 3 games, 5 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 1.67
Craig Charleston,----- 1 games, 0 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 0.00
Kevin Clancy,-------- 3 games, 5 yellow, 0 red, 1 pen, average 1.67
Willie Collum,--------- 7 games, 11 yellow, 1 red, 0 pen, average 1.57
Brian Colvin,----------2 games, 4 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 2.00
Bobby Madden,------- 6 games, 15 yellow, 0 red, 1 pen, average 2.50
John McKendrick,----- 1 game, 1 yellow, 0 red, 0 pen, average 1.00
Steve McLean,------- 6 games, 5 yellow, 1 red, 0 pens, average 0.83
Alan Muir,------------ 2 games, 3 yellow, 1 red, 1 pen, average 1.50
Calum Murray,-------- 1 games, 0 yellows, 0 red, 0 pen, average 0.00
Euan Norris,---------- 1 games, 3 yellows, 0 red, 0 pens, average 3.00
Craig Thomson,------- 6 games, 8 yellow, 0 red, 2 pen, average 1.33

Total 46 games, 71 yellow, 5 red, 7 pens for, Average yellow per game 1.54

Saorsa
23-02-2014, 02:21 PM
Sorry, I've no doubt that the man is a plonker, but this thread is pitiful. There is no concrete evidence that he is any more biased than the next man.

A lot of stuff on here is just silly, in that it uses the most obscure evidence to say he's a cheat. For most of the points made there are simple counter arguments.

For example, has anybody considered the possibility that a succession of poor Hibs sides has resorted to fouling to compensate for lack of skill. Just as plausible a reason for the increase in cards issued against us.

I'd like to see the same criteria being applied to all the refs that have handled our games. If he is a stick out then, there could be a case to answer.He is

Phil D. Rolls
23-02-2014, 02:33 PM
You didn't read tomf's article then?

No, what did it say, and did it address alternative explanations to Thomson being a cult? What margin of error was allowed in the stats, and how did he address the large variation in sample sizes?

Just that before we go knocking on the SFAs door, we better look like we know what we're talking about. The last thing we want to look like is a bunch of biased fans that aren't happy with decisions against us.

Keith_M
23-02-2014, 02:40 PM
No, what did it say, and did it address alternative explanations to Thomson being a cult? What margin of error was allowed in the stats, and how did he address the large variation in sample sizes?

Just that before we go knocking on the SFAs door, we better look like we know what we're talking about. The last thing we want to look like is a bunch of biased fans that aren't happy with decisions against us.


Such as?

Phil D. Rolls
23-02-2014, 02:49 PM
Such as?

Team selection, conditions, importance of the match. All variables that can impact on the amount of cards in a game. Undoubtedly factors that Thomsons side would use as explanations.

The counter argument is what do Hibs do to make themselves more cardable when he is the ref. Are people going to say we deliberately play more dirty if he's in charge.

It's just that, statistics alone are never going to prove the argument.

Keith_M
23-02-2014, 03:03 PM
Team selection, conditions, importance of the match. All variables that can impact on the amount of cards in a game. Undoubtedly factors that Thomsons side would use as explanations.

The counter argument is what do Hibs do to make themselves more cardable when he is the ref. Are people going to say we deliberately play more dirty if he's in charge.

It's just that, statistics alone are never going to prove the argument.


Yep, I understand that. Statistics are no use if applied against a limited number of matches but the bigger the selection of games, the more accurate they can considered to be. If you apply them over the course of, say, five years, you can surely consider the factors you mentioned as being evened out enough for the statistics to be reasonably accurate.


Put it like this: If a person slips walking down a staircase, it's unfair to assume that staircase is unsafe, as it was a one off and other factors must come into consideration. If 20 people slip on the same staircase in a week, then it's fair to say there is a case that the staircase itself is unsafe.


The statistics on Thomson's refereeing of Hibs and Hearts games are over quite a number of years, with different managers and a variety of players. The overrall figures for those years can surely be considered quite damning.

Jack Hackett
23-02-2014, 03:06 PM
No, what did it say, and did it address alternative explanations to Thomson being a cult? What margin of error was allowed in the stats, and how did he address the large variation in sample sizes?

Just that before we go knocking on the SFAs door, we better look like we know what we're talking about. The last thing we want to look like is a bunch of biased fans that aren't happy with decisions against us.

Then why not? You seem to be basing your argument on....well, nothing really, as you don't seem to want to consider anything but your own opinion in this matter.

Phil D. Rolls
23-02-2014, 03:53 PM
Then why not? You seem to be basing your argument on....well, nothing really, as you don't seem to want to consider anything but your own opinion in this matter.

In all honesty I didn't read that far down the thread, so I didn't know that this excellent piece of work had been done. I think Thomson is a cheat, and I would love it if it could be proved.

I'm just asking for someone that knows about stats. to say that the evidence gathered would stand up to robust questioning. What I do know is that statistical samples have to be above a certain number (35?) to be valid. So I think that his performance in 17 games isn't going to cut it on stats alone.

I'm not a statistical expert and would love someone who is to make comment on the quality of the evidence.

Jack Hackett
23-02-2014, 04:01 PM
In all honesty I didn't read that far down the thread, so I didn't know that this excellent piece of work had been done. I think Thomson is a cheat, and I would love it if it could be proved.

I'm just asking for someone that knows about stats. to say that the evidence gathered would stand up to robust questioning. What I do know is that statistical samples have to be above a certain number (35?) to be valid. So I think that his performance in 17 games isn't going to cut it on stats alone.

I'm not a statistical expert and would love someone who is to make comment on the quality of the evidence.

Statistics aren't perfect, for a start they are quantitative rather than qualitative. You can only go by recorded incidents....and those recorded in this instance are fairly damning. There's no doubt it's possible to dig deeper by reading every match report and logging times of bookings, but you will never be able to determine timing in relation to the way the match is going at a particular time....for example, Kujabi was sent off in that final shortly after we had pulled one back, and a penalty that never was, was given, decidedly ending any idea of a Hibs comeback. How do you present this statistically?

Phil D. Rolls
23-02-2014, 04:14 PM
Statistics aren't perfect, for a start they are quantitative rather than qualitative. You can only go by recorded incidents....and those recorded in this instance are fairly damning. There's no doubt it's possible to dig deeper by reading every match report and logging times of bookings, but you will never be able to determine timing in relation to the way the match is going at a particular time....for example, Kujabi was sent off in that final shortly after we had pulled one back, and a penalty that never was, was given, decidedly ending any idea of a Hibs comeback. How do you present this statistically?

I would like him to explain why he gave a penalty for that incident, and judge him on the way he answered the question.

Kato
23-02-2014, 04:15 PM
A lot of stuff on here is just silly,


12076

Jack Hackett
23-02-2014, 04:17 PM
I would like him to explain why he gave a penalty for that incident, and judge him on the way he answered the question.

Every Hibs supporter would like to ask the same question. We're never going to get an answer though

matty_f
23-02-2014, 04:27 PM
Sorry, I've no doubt that the man is a plonker, but this thread is pitiful. There is no concrete evidence that he is any more biased than the next man.

A lot of stuff on here is just silly, in that it uses the most obscure evidence to say he's a cheat. For most of the points made there are simple counter arguments.

For example, has anybody considered the possibility that a succession of poor Hibs sides has resorted to fouling to compensate for lack of skill. Just as plausible a reason for the increase in cards issued against us.

I'd like to see the same criteria being applied to all the refs that have handled our games. If he is a stick out then, there could be a case to answer.
The silliest post on here is the one judging the level of silliness without reading the article.

Phil D. Rolls
23-02-2014, 04:27 PM
12076

FFs all i did was ask a few questions, I mean I hardly expected some kind of Spanish Inquisition...

Phil D. Rolls
23-02-2014, 04:35 PM
The silliest post on here is the one judging the level of silliness without reading the article.

I've read it now, and I'll stand by my comments about the use of statistics to prove the hypothesis that he's a cheat. There are other possible explanations that can be used to explain the variation. I'm particularly uncomfortable with the number of games reffed by others.

With such small samples it is easy to come up with what appears to be a massive difference in carding. To accuse a man of cheating I feel the evidence needs to be robust.

As I've said, I think the man is a cheat, but not on the basis of the number of cards issued. The figures can't reflect what went on in individual games.

Personally I think it's time we considered other options such ad extreme rendition and water boarding. It's the only language these people understand. :greengrin:

andyf5
23-02-2014, 07:33 PM
The statistics originally presented showed Thomson compared to other referees which I think makes him appear biased. However if you look at all the matches Thomson has refereed then you see he dishes out a lot of cards and usually more to the visiting team. I can find no difference to the number of cards he gives hibs compared to other teams. The website I have linked further back in this thread let's you see every game he has refereed and you can check for yourself. He's card happy.
There is no evidence he treats hibs any different to other teams.

Kato
23-02-2014, 08:11 PM
The statistics originally presented showed Thomson compared to other referees which I think makes him appear biased. However if you look at all the matches Thomson has refereed then you see he dishes out a lot of cards and usually more to the visiting team. I can find no difference to the number of cards he gives hibs compared to other teams. The website I have linked further back in this thread let's you see every game he has refereed and you can check for yourself. He's card happy.
There is no evidence he treats hibs any different to other teams.

Could you show us that in the form of a table or chart, please.

JimBHibees
23-02-2014, 08:15 PM
The statistics originally presented showed Thomson compared to other referees which I think makes him appear biased. However if you look at all the matches Thomson has refereed then you see he dishes out a lot of cards and usually more to the visiting team. I can find no difference to the number of cards he gives hibs compared to other teams. The website I have linked further back in this thread let's you see every game he has refereed and you can check for yourself. He's card happy.
There is no evidence he treats hibs any different to other teams.

No it also took into account the number of cards he gave out in other games. Hibs were the team most given yellows by Thomson and the opposition given the least yellows against Hibs. Hibs were least likely to get a pen and most likely to be given a pen against. He is a cheat IMO this merely outlines just how much a cheat. Quite why we seem to get him so often in comparison to other refs also seems very strange.

Steven_Hibs
23-02-2014, 10:24 PM
I still cannot believe we haven't complained to the SPFL about this clown, can you imagine Lennon putting up with the horrendous record we have when he refs our games. Not a chance!!!

Hermit Crab
24-02-2014, 03:06 AM
I still cannot believe we haven't complained to the SPFL about this clown, can you imagine Lennon putting up with the horrendous record we have when he refs our games. Not a chance!!!

You think complaints will work? Only way to prove if Thomson is cheating is to catch him taking bribes on card counts, free kicks etc on film. Never going to happen.

Nothing will change. We'll still get pish refs and then complain about then as well.

MrSmith
24-02-2014, 06:30 AM
Those stats definitely point towards an obvious bias however, filled rolls has a point in that, we need to nail him and to do this all questions, variations and ambiguous occurrences must be presented in a water tight case.

He is a cheat though plus, there is significant footage to substantiate/corroborate our claim.

tomf
24-02-2014, 02:46 PM
Having sent the "report" to a couple of journalists, the SPFL and the SPFA, I haven't, as yet, received any response. That can't really be a surprise to anyone. However I note the comments by Filled Rolls and Andyf5. A statistical analysis is best done with 100% of all the relevant data...not 35 or any other number plucked from the air. I'm glad you took the time to read the article once it had been pointed out to you. I did find it a bit disappointing that you felt that some of the comments on the thread were "silly". I think a lot of points were quite well put. I treat fair play and impartiality as critical factors for a referee and anything less than the highest standards of integrity need to be looked at. As has been noted earlier in the thread; we can accept an incompetent referee or a bad judgement call on the day but the statistics do seem to indicate something more than simple human error. The other factors you note are surely relevant for both teams. For instance, there may be a lot more sliding tackles on a wet, greasy surface but would you expect the referee to book one team more than the other because of that? The variables are exactly that; they can might skew the statistics for one paricular game but they can't really alter the overall statistics. I note the statistical sample that was used to prove that Mr Thomson wasn't biased towards Hearts. I would suggest that the relatively small size of the sample had an impact on the conclusion.

All I have asked for is that the matter be looked into. I would actually be happy for Mr Thomson to be vindicated if it could be proved. I would also be happy if, when he refereed a game involving Hibs in future, he was to treat us the same as any other team he encounters. I couldn't care less if it was because of this thread being brought to his attention and the fact we have highlighted his statistics or if someone has had a word in his ear. I just want things to be fair. I should point out that I haven't yet exhausted all the avenues. I would like to incorporate a brief mention of the latest statistics that Nailrod researched and I intend to send a revised copy of the document to every other team in the SPL (bar one obvious club). I will send it to either the club or the supporters; I haven't decided yet, because I honestly think these statistics are as important to every team that have played Hearts where Mr Thomson has officiated. As I have pointed out in the past; a referee's decisions can cost matches, points, league placings and revenue and I am cerain that other fans and clubs might have a view on this. Oh and one final point for Filled Rolls...you might want to read up about the Spanish inqisition; I don't think anyone has stuck a red hot poker up your rear end to get you to renounce Mr Thomson and all his works (just joking).

Phil MaGlass
24-02-2014, 03:08 PM
The SFA/SPFL and refs body would soon answer if this was put in the Hibs programme on a matchday when he is refereeing us.:thumbsup:

joe breezy
24-02-2014, 03:18 PM
Having sent the "report" to a couple of journalists, the SPFL and the SPFA, I haven't, as yet, received any response. That can't really be a surprise to anyone. However I note the comments by Filled Rolls and Andyf5. A statistical analysis is best done with 100% of all the relevant data...not 35 or any other number plucked from the air. I'm glad you took the time to read the article once it had been pointed out to you. I did find it a bit disappointing that you felt that some of the comments on the thread were "silly". I think a lot of points were quite well put. I treat fair play and impartiality as critical factors for a referee and anything less than the highest standards of integrity need to be looked at. As has been noted earlier in the thread; we can accept an incompetent referee or a bad judgement call on the day but the statistics do seem to indicate something more than simple human error. The other factors you note are surely relevant for both teams. For instance, there may be a lot more sliding tackles on a wet, greasy surface but would you expect the referee to book one team more than the other because of that? The variables are exactly that; they can might skew the statistics for one paricular game but they can't really alter the overall statistics. I note the statistical sample that was used to prove that Mr Thomson wasn't biased towards Hearts. I would suggest that the relatively small size of the sample had an impact on the conclusion.

All I have asked for is that the matter be looked into. I would actually be happy for Mr Thomson to be vindicated if it could be proved. I would also be happy if, when he refereed a game involving Hibs in future, he was to treat us the same as any other team he encounters. I couldn't care less if it was because of this thread being brought to his attention and the fact we have highlighted his statistics or if someone has had a word in his ear. I just want things to be fair. I should point out that I haven't yet exhausted all the avenues. I would like to incorporate a brief mention of the latest statistics that Nailrod researched and I intend to send a revised copy of the document to every other team in the SPL (bar one obvious club). I will send it to either the club or the supporters; I haven't decided yet, because I honestly think these statistics are as important to every team that have played Hearts where Mr Thomson has officiated. As I have pointed out in the past; a referee's decisions can cost matches, points, league placings and revenue and I am cerain that other fans and clubs might have a view on this. Oh and one final point for Filled Rolls...you might want to read up about the Spanish inqisition; I don't think anyone has stuck a red hot poker up your rear end to get you to renounce Mr Thomson and all his works (just joking).

Welcome back Sidney

Phil D. Rolls
24-02-2014, 04:01 PM
Having sent the "report" to a couple of journalists, the SPFL and the SPFA, I haven't, as yet, received any response. That can't really be a surprise to anyone. However I note the comments by Filled Rolls and Andyf5. A statistical analysis is best done with 100% of all the relevant data...not 35 or any other number plucked from the air. I'm glad you took the time to read the article once it had been pointed out to you. I did find it a bit disappointing that you felt that some of the comments on the thread were "silly". I think a lot of points were quite well put. I treat fair play and impartiality as critical factors for a referee and anything less than the highest standards of integrity need to be looked at. As has been noted earlier in the thread; we can accept an incompetent referee or a bad judgement call on the day but the statistics do seem to indicate something more than simple human error. The other factors you note are surely relevant for both teams. For instance, there may be a lot more sliding tackles on a wet, greasy surface but would you expect the referee to book one team more than the other because of that? The variables are exactly that; they can might skew the statistics for one paricular game but they can't really alter the overall statistics. I note the statistical sample that was used to prove that Mr Thomson wasn't biased towards Hearts. I would suggest that the relatively small size of the sample had an impact on the conclusion.

All I have asked for is that the matter be looked into. I would actually be happy for Mr Thomson to be vindicated if it could be proved. I would also be happy if, when he refereed a game involving Hibs in future, he was to treat us the same as any other team he encounters. I couldn't care less if it was because of this thread being brought to his attention and the fact we have highlighted his statistics or if someone has had a word in his ear. I just want things to be fair. I should point out that I haven't yet exhausted all the avenues. I would like to incorporate a brief mention of the latest statistics that Nailrod researched and I intend to send a revised copy of the document to every other team in the SPL (bar one obvious club). I will send it to either the club or the supporters; I haven't decided yet, because I honestly think these statistics are as important to every team that have played Hearts where Mr Thomson has officiated. As I have pointed out in the past; a referee's decisions can cost matches, points, league placings and revenue and I am cerain that other fans and clubs might have a view on this. Oh and one final point for Filled Rolls...you might want to read up about the Spanish inqisition; I don't think anyone has stuck a red hot poker up your rear end to get you to renounce Mr Thomson and all his works (just joking).

It's silly to try and make a point at the same time as slagging off the people you're trying to convince, like I did. People obviously think there is a case against him, and there is nothing silly about that.

To clarify my view, I'm not entirely convinced that there is a robust case against Craig Thomson.

I'm not saying he isn't a cheat, just that stats. alone wont prove the case. If we go pressing charges against him without the evidence we will look silly. I do get people's frustration, but the SFA are not noted for playing by the rules if a ref. comes up for criticism.

You can guarantee that anyone that looks at the "evidence" will be at least as critical as me. Don't shoot the messenger, all I said was "that halibut was fit for Jehovah".

jeffers
24-02-2014, 05:01 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but my take on this is if there was a referee with similar stats but involving Celtic instead I have absolutely no doubt it would be all over the press. I want to see the ******er put under the spotlight every time he is in charge of our games and held accountable for the terrible decisions he consistently makes against us.

tomf
24-02-2014, 07:13 PM
I am glad to note that we can have a civilised debate with some good points and some good humour despite the topic being one we all take seriously. Whilst I don't think any of us hold out much hope that things will change I know that things can sometimes happen via the strangest of circmstances. I have no idea about the welcome back Sidney comment by the way; what does that mean? Anyway, suffice to say..He's not an incompetent referee, he's just a very naughty boy.

andyf5
24-02-2014, 07:17 PM
Could you show us that in the form of a table or chart, please.

Okay here is the table as a spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amm0rQYXNdjIdEJtZTRsUUpQX0RmVVNLYWxRQ01Td Xc&usp=sharing) on google


The stats show for the last three seasons from 2013/14 Thomson averages 3.72, 3.37, 3.59 yellow cards per game. I want to see a table that shows what his average is for all teams not just Hibs. Comparing him to other referees means nothing other than he's card happy.

Looking over things I still can't see how he's different to other referees. I compared him to Bobby Maddon and it all looks similar to Thomson with more cards given to visiting teams. There are so many factors in how cards are given - were hibs at home or away, were our players diving into tackles, was it a big game atmosphere likely to generate more cards. I'm just not convinced.

1950's hibbie
24-02-2014, 07:24 PM
I believe cheating and corruption are extremely difficult to prove, if I was making the statements the author of the letter is making I would have been very careful to say, in my opinion, on reading his report I see that his, to me, are statement of fact supported by some what many would say are dubious and incomplete statistics. I am not sure of Scottish law, but in North America he would be in serious risk of a very expensive legal case where the costs of being sued would be high. I have not seen the man referee a game let alone comment on his performance, I only read the reports on match days here, and know there has been a lot of criticism, equally there are not many if any match day threads that don't have critical comments of referees.

I don't know how it is there but defamation etc. on social pages is becoming a target for legal action here, a disguised name such as tom f is absolutely no protection, tracing is simple to the right people.

Phil D. Rolls
24-02-2014, 08:10 PM
I believe cheating and corruption are extremely difficult to prove, if I was making the statements the author of the letter is making I would have been very careful to say, in my opinion, on reading his report I see that his, to me, are statement of fact supported by some what many would say are dubious and incomplete statistics. I am not sure of Scottish law, but in North America he would be in serious risk of a very expensive legal case where the costs of being sued would be high. I have not seen the man referee a game let alone comment on his performance, I only read the reports on match days here, and know there has been a lot of criticism, equally there are not many if any match day threads that don't have critical comments of referees.

I don't know how it is there but defamation etc. on social pages is becoming a target for legal action here, a disguised name such as tom f is absolutely no protection, tracing is simple to the right people.

It's a good point, but hopefully it will be taken in the right way. Nobody on here is saying the statistics are infallible, and it should go without saying that there is a fair degree of subjectivity in the way they are interpreted.

Using words like : "it appears", or "I think" is also a good strategy. It's one thing to say a man is a cheat, quite another to say you think he's a cheat. Personally, I think Thomson is a ****.

Eyrie
24-02-2014, 08:56 PM
There's an interesting little comment in the match report in today's Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/terry-butcher-cut-up-despite-second-half-recovery-1-3317328)


Such is referee Craig Thomson’s history with Hibs, the defender later said “it wouldn’t have surprised me” if the penalty had been given, possibly even for handball, despite the ball having hit his face.

Aldo
24-02-2014, 09:04 PM
It's a good point, but hopefully it will be taken in the right way. Nobody on here is saying the statistics are infallible, and it should go without saying that there is a fair degree of subjectivity in the way they are interpreted. Using words like : "it appears", or "I think" is also a good strategy. It's one thing to say a man is a cheat, quite another to say you think he's a cheat. Personally, I think Thomson is a ****.

I have no doubt in my mind that the man is a cheat and the game against Smellic confirmed this. Stonewall penalty when Collins takes a tumble - nowt given by that twat. Smellic player gets tackled- tackes a tumble and the twat has blown his whistle and pointed to the spot before the Smellic player hits the ground.CT is a grade a F Witt and should get it tight every single time he refs any of our games.

Once a cheat always a cheat.

matty_f
24-02-2014, 09:24 PM
I believe cheating and corruption are extremely difficult to prove, if I was making the statements the author of the letter is making I would have been very careful to say, in my opinion, on reading his report I see that his, to me, are statement of fact supported by some what many would saying are dubious and incomplete statistics. I am not sure of Scottish law, but in North America he would be in serious risk of a very expensive legal case where the costs of being sued would be high. I have not seen the man referee a game let alone comment on his performance, I only read the reports on match days here, and know there has been a lot of criticism, equally there are not many if any match day threads that don't have critical comments of referees.

I don't know how it is there but defamation etc. on social pages is becoming a target for legal action here, a disguised name such as tom f is absolutely no protection, tracing is simple to the right people.

The piece is clearly written as an opinion based on the stats, and for me there is a clear justification to the argument that says Thomson is biased against Hibs.

Jonnyboy
24-02-2014, 09:28 PM
While the argument as to whether he is a cheat or at worst biased rages on, we can surely all agree on one thing ........ he's totally incompetent

Jack
24-02-2014, 09:40 PM
Okay here is the table as a spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amm0rQYXNdjIdEJtZTRsUUpQX0RmVVNLYWxRQ01Td Xc&usp=sharing) on google


The stats show for the last three seasons from 2013/14 Thomson averages 3.72, 3.37, 3.59 yellow cards per game. I want to see a table that shows what his average is for all teams not just Hibs. Comparing him to other referees means nothing other than he's card happy.

Looking over things I still can't see how he's different to other referees. I compared him to Bobby Maddon and it all looks similar to Thomson with more cards given to visiting teams. There are so many factors in how cards are given - were hibs at home or away, were our players diving into tackles, was it a big game atmosphere likely to generate more cards. I'm just not convinced.

Show us that table you want to see and we'll discuss it.

Jack Hackett
24-02-2014, 09:42 PM
Show us that table you want to see and we'll discuss it.

Click on the word 'spreadsheet'

Jack
24-02-2014, 09:43 PM
While the argument as to whether he is a cheat or at worst biased rages on, we can surely all agree on one thing ........ he's totally incompetent

Not at all.

If, as the stats suggest, he is manipulating games then he is far from incompetent.

Jack Hackett
24-02-2014, 09:47 PM
Apologies Jack, I misread your post in relation to Andy's

Seveno
24-02-2014, 10:31 PM
While the argument as to whether he is a cheat or at worst biased rages on, we can surely all agree on one thing ........ he's totally incompetent

Sorry but I can't agree. I consider him to be very competent at cheating Hibs.

Jack
24-02-2014, 10:39 PM
Apologies Jack, I misread your post in relation to Andy's

No worries :-)

Jonnyboy
24-02-2014, 10:44 PM
Not at all.

If, as the stats suggest, he is manipulating games then he is far from incompetent.


Sorry but I can't agree. I consider him to be very competent at cheating Hibs.

This thread is about how he referees Hibs. My incompetent accusation stands in relation to other games where he has cocked up big style. There's a youtube link on this thread showing how incompetent he was when refereeing France v Bosnia

It is, of course, possible for him to be all three :greengrin

Kato
24-02-2014, 10:51 PM
how incompetent he was when refereeing France v Bosnia


You don't think there's a possibility he was "competently" getting France through?

Jonnyboy
24-02-2014, 10:52 PM
You don't think there's a possibility he was "competently" getting France through?

Or put another way, cheating?

Kato
24-02-2014, 10:54 PM
Or put another way, cheating?

:cb

tomf
25-02-2014, 12:31 PM
I certainly don't wish to be sued and I think I have made it clear that what I am looking for is vindication for Mr Thomson. Whether I think that is likely to be forthcoming is another thing. I have an opinion on his competency and his apparent bias and I am perfectly entitled to that opinion but that is entirely different from accusing anyone. I have gone to some lengths to double check the statistics and my contention is that by laying them out as clearly as possible one is able to draw a conclusion. It is perectly acceptable to state a conclusion drawn from legitimate statistics. I have only ever asked for these (and other) statistics to be investigated and also asked the simple questions...What if a referee were to cheat? How is it discovered, investigated and dealt with? Someone earlier in the thread effectively suggested that statistics can be used to show anything and the obvious question was raised...Can we see the statistical evidence that Mr Thomson isn't displaying a bias against Hibs and a bias toward Hearts? As far as I am aware, we are still waiting. If and when that case is made, I will gladly accept it.

I honestly appreciate that libel and slander are serious issues and I, for one, would be happy to apologise to Mr Thomson if the statistics are wrong. The conclsions are a matter of opinion. I also appreciate that a hard working professional footballer playing for Hibs or against Hearts has the right to expect fair play and I am fairly certain that every fan, every club and every one of the governing bodies would want the same. It has to be accepted that everyone's performance will come under scrutiny; especially in these days of gambling investigations, match fixing, financial doping, simulation, racism, hooliganism and abuse. We all want a fair sport where talented, skillful players win games based on merit. Where decisions are made even-handedly and where fans conduct theselves in a way that reflects well on them and their club...or have I got this all wrong?

greenginger
25-02-2014, 12:51 PM
It is probably in the stats. somewhere, but can anyone tell me if Craig Thomson has ever awarded a penalty to Hibs.

I have a habit of blanking out all games he refs.

Seveno
25-02-2014, 06:32 PM
This thread is about how he referees Hibs. My incompetent accusation stands in relation to other games where he has cocked up big style. There's a youtube link on this thread showing how incompetent he was when refereeing France v Bosnia

It is, of course, possible for him to be all three :greengrin

I think we are actually in agreement. :greengrin

Phil D. Rolls
25-02-2014, 06:33 PM
There seems to be a lot of interest in this thread over the road.
:hmmm:

Onion
25-02-2014, 07:17 PM
I certainly don't wish to be sued and I think I have made it clear that what I am looking for is vindication for Mr Thomson. Whether I think that is likely to be forthcoming is another thing. I have an opinion on his competency and his apparent bias and I am perfectly entitled to that opinion but that is entirely different from accusing anyone. I have gone to some lengths to double check the statistics and my contention is that by laying them out as clearly as possible one is able to draw a conclusion. It is perectly acceptable to state a conclusion drawn from legitimate statistics. I have only ever asked for these (and other) statistics to be investigated and also asked the simple questions...What if a referee were to cheat? How is it discovered, investigated and dealt with? Someone earlier in the thread effectively suggested that statistics can be used to show anything and the obvious question was raised...Can we see the statistical evidence that Mr Thomson isn't displaying a bias against Hibs and a bias toward Hearts? As far as I am aware, we are still waiting. If and when that case is made, I will gladly accept it.

I honestly appreciate that libel and slander are serious issues and I, for one, would be happy to apologise to Mr Thomson if the statistics are wrong. The conclsions are a matter of opinion. I also appreciate that a hard working professional footballer playing for Hibs or against Hearts has the right to expect fair play and I am fairly certain that every fan, every club and every one of the governing bodies would want the same. It has to be accepted that everyone's performance will come under scrutiny; especially in these days of gambling investigations, match fixing, financial doping, simulation, racism, hooliganism and abuse. We all want a fair sport where talented, skillful players win games based on merit. Where decisions are made even-handedly and where fans conduct theselves in a way that reflects well on them and their club...or have I got this all wrong?

Relax, for soooooo many reasons the idea of a referee suing a football fan for implying or even calling him a cheat is completely and utterly ridiculous. :faf:

In saying that, I'm drooling at the thought of Thomson standing in a court dock trying to defend his Hibs stats & record with the defence getting the opportunity to call 25,000 Hibby witnesses, run a forensic analysis of video footage of all his Hibs matches, and finally presenting a picture of the grinning Thomson standing arm in arm with a bunch of Hearts fans giving it the 5-1. :thumbsup:

Thomson is a cheat. Thompson is incompetent. Thomson is not fit for purpose. Can I make it any clearer than that :greengrin

Jonnyboy
25-02-2014, 07:37 PM
I think we are actually in agreement. :greengrin

I agree :greengrin

Bostonhibby
25-02-2014, 08:53 PM
Relax, for soooooo many reasons the idea of a referee suing a football fan for implying or even calling him a cheat is completely and utterly ridiculous. :faf:

In saying that, I'm drooling at the thought of Thomson standing in a court dock trying to defend his Hibs stats & record with the defence getting the opportunity to call 25,000 Hibby witnesses, run a forensic analysis of video footage of all his Hibs matches, and finally presenting a picture of the grinning Thomson standing arm in arm with a bunch of Hearts fans giving it the 5-1. :thumbsup:

Thomson is a cheat. Thompson is incompetent. Thomson is not fit for purpose. Can I make it any clearer than that :greengrin

:agree: Could I get sued for calling him a smug Hearts barsteward? allegedly obviously.

matty_f
25-02-2014, 08:59 PM
The stats don't lie, Ian Brines is obviously a Hibby

No, he just doesn't like yams.

Eyrie
25-02-2014, 10:24 PM
:agree: Could I get sued for calling him a smug Hearts barsteward? allegedly obviously.

Smug? You're safe - Thomson is definitely smug.

Hearts? You're safe - Thomson is definitely one of them.

Barsteward? You may be on tricky ground if Thomson can find a birth certificate.

givescotlandfreedom
26-02-2014, 12:46 AM
Neil Lennon is blaming last night's defeat on Thomson. He seems to have forgotten about Thomson's helpful decision making against us at ER not long ago.

joe breezy
26-02-2014, 06:23 AM
There seems to be a lot of interest in this thread over the road.
:hmmm:

That's because it's Sidney - pretty obvious. It is quite remarkable how many people have taken the bait.

MSK
26-02-2014, 07:09 AM
That's because it's Sidney - pretty obvious. It is quite remarkable how many people have taken the bait.No, its not Sidney, the op is a hibs fan ..& known by the Admin team ..

joe breezy
26-02-2014, 10:04 AM
No, its not Sidney, the op is a hibs fan ..& known by the Admin team ..

Oh well, I stand corrected, it was the enthusiastic tone of voice that reminded me of the letter writing yam fud

brog
26-02-2014, 10:35 AM
That's because it's Sidney - pretty obvious. It is quite remarkable how many people have taken the bait.

Definitely not Sydney, his posts were fragmented & inarticulate, pretty much a poster boy for the Yam support really. :wink:
Oops, just saw next posts confirming above.

andyf5
26-02-2014, 12:10 PM
Someone else who will be looking at the stats

Celtic manager Neil Lennon said referee Craig Thomson determined the outcome of his side's 2-1 defeat by Aberdeen. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26348776)

greenpaper55
26-02-2014, 01:19 PM
I watched the game on Alba last night and i was convinced the Celtic player got a touch on the ball but was sent off for the tackle. Celtic denied a stonewall penalty in the second half, i don't think he is biased just incompetent.

ScottB
26-02-2014, 01:40 PM
Regardless of how he treats us, the guy is just terrible full stop, I can recall him being awful in international and European matches too.

Which all added together begs the question, why is he still in the set up?

KeithTheHibby
26-02-2014, 01:58 PM
A hearts fud? Aye.

A cheat? Naw.

Incompetent? Without a doubt.

Seveno
26-02-2014, 06:53 PM
I couldn't see much difference in the circumstances behind the Celtic penalty claim last night and the Nelson hand ball decision in our match against them at ER. According to Cheat Thomson, the ball played the man last night. :confused:

Jack Hackett
26-02-2014, 07:11 PM
I couldn't see much difference in the circumstances behind the Celtic penalty claim last night and the Nelson hand ball decision in our match against them at ER. According to Cheat Thomson, the ball played the man last night. :confused:

There's a clear difference in that they weren't playing Hibs last night...no need to give the penalty