Petrie is the one constant in all this

[Greenworld]

Managers come and go ...everytime we here the same
Work within or means pish..how come motherwell...aberdeen...dundee utd all seem to do that but can attract better players..I have never been a petrie hater but he is the one constant in all this can it be all the managers we have employed faults over the years...

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Managers come and go ...everytime we here the same
Work within or means pish..how come motherwell...aberdeen...dundee utd all seem to do that but can attract better players..I have never been a petrie hater but he is the one constant in all this can it be all the managers we have employed faults over the years...

Bingo - you solved the mystery. What a relief! What's the plan from here?

[Steven_Hibs]

Bingo - you solved the mystery. What a relief! What's the plan from here?

Fan ownership?

[Hibbyradge]

Managers come and go ...everytime we here the same
Work within or means pish..how come motherwell...aberdeen...dundee utd all seem to do that but can attract better players..I have never been a petrie hater but he is the one constant in all this can it be all the managers we have employed faults over the years...

lol

[alley balley0-7]

Managers come and go ...everytime we here the same
Work within or means pish..how come motherwell...aberdeen...dundee utd all seem to do that but can attract better players..I have never been a petrie hater but he is the one constant in all this can it be all the managers we have employed faults over the years...
spot on greenworld :top marks

[cocopops1875]

Merge with the other gash Rod thread

[marinello59]

Managers come and go ...everytime we here the same
Work within or means pish..how come motherwell...aberdeen...dundee utd all seem to do that but can attract better players..I have never been a petrie hater but he is the one constant in all this can it be all the managers we have employed faults over the years...

You are forgetting Tam McCourt. I blame him.

[Hibbyradge]

You are forgetting Tam McCourt. I blame him.

And the fandans.

[bigwheel]

Managers come and go ...everytime we here the same
Work within or means pish..how come motherwell...aberdeen...dundee utd all seem to do that but can attract better players..I have never been a petrie hater but he is the one constant in all this can it be all the managers we have employed faults over the years...


I reckon it's you that's the constant...you're a jinx !! :greengrin

[Jones28]

Not many argued against the appointments when they were made though.

[The Sea-gull]

Not many argued against the appointments when they were made though.

True for most of the appointments made but the support Fenlon received pre and for a good while post appointment was riddiculous for someone who had done nothing at any decent level in the game.

I was against the appointment all along purely as he did not have the credentials to be Hibernian or any other SPL team manager. Would have beeen "delighted to be proved wrong" but I wasn't.

[The Sea-gull]

Petrie is surely not the only constant. There must have been other nameless blazers involved in all the incompetent running of the football side of things

Time has come where we need to speculate to accumulate a little bit. I firmly believe Butcher is the man for the job but he must be given financial support and an interference free reign on signings in and out.

[matty_f]

Petrie has done as much as he can, imho. We've changed managers when things have gone wrong but not before he's given them time to get it right. He's backed each manager with as much money as the club can afford. He's built a training centre to give the managers the tools to do the job. He's held off selling players when managers have been adamant that they want to keep them and he's brought players to the club that managers wanted, where possible.
What else does he needed to do? Team talks? Scouting? Tactics? :dunno:

[Craig_in_Prague]

He has mis-managemed the footballing side terribly,
We all understand every manager is a bit of a gamble, but the actions he has taken, the timing of them and general backing of the wrong one's, makes the whole situation worse.

- Not sure he was involved in Fat Boab; But did we not pay him a very big salary? (compared to other managers we had around same time)
- Did we back TM enough in the market? We paid him pittance as well..... and did we pay the players what they deserved, even per what we promised? I know through someone our CIS cup winning captain, and all I can say is Hibs don't always treat players very well, let alone a cup winning captain
- Why was Hughes not good enough 1st time round, but then we go back for him? + Sacking through the season
- Why was Calderwood not good enough 1st time round, then we go back for him?
- Why did he stick by CC and lose us nice remuneration income - It was clear this was never going to work out for the better, + Sacking during season
- Fenlon - Absolutely not a CV worthy of getting the Hibs job....Standing by your man through humiliation after humiliation, + Gone during the season

ETC ETC

(I didn't mention Mixu there, I think he was trying the 'young new manager' approach that worked with TM, and Mixu has proven to do well after Hibs... but clearly wasn't a great appointment, but I have too much respect for Mixu to say anymore than that)

If Petrie could see that Fenlon was not the right man and he wanted TB, then over summer is the right time to make that change. Gives TB a pre-season to shape things, these mid season changes, does nothing good for anyone.

I know a lot of clubs sack managers during the season, but we tend to do it 2-3 months into a season and go from transition to transition. MASSIVE player turnover, year after year.

It doesn't work and it appears we stumble next guy to the next guy. Finally, I think TB will come good, in fact I'm sure of it. It is painful though with another manager with ex managers' players.

Hibs are poor are getting things right that really matter, that is on the park. Other clubs with much less resources seem to outperform us with ease, year after year.

[greenpaper55]

If it was any other line of business would he still be in a job ?, he is only there because Sir Tom thinks the sun shines oot his erchie !. Aberdeen were as bad as us for years but they have backed the manager with cash , look at the experience and better quality they have brought in recently and it is paying off for them, put some quality on the park or crowds will stay the same or drop even further or you can speculate and get home gates that will more than make up for what you spend. We will always be the same under parsimonious petrie but he will not be hurting as much as we are thats for sure.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

If it was any other line of business would he still be in a job ?, he is only there because Sir Tom thinks the sun shines oot his erchie !. Aberdeen were as bad as us for years but they have backed the manager with cash , look at the experience and better quality they have brought in recently and it is paying off for them, put some quality on the park or crowds will stay the same or drop even further or you can speculate and get home gates that will more than make up for what you spend. We will always be the same under parsimonious petrie but he will not be hurting as much as we are thats for sure.

Aberdeen has been a basket case of a club of many a year before things appear to have clicked with McInnes. Still time for the wheels to come off that one although looks unlikely but the dandies have experienced many a false dawn too...

[Gerard]

Petrie has done as much as he can, imho. We've changed managers when things have gone wrong but not before he's given them time to get it right. He's backed each manager with as much money as the club can afford. He's built a training centre to give the managers the tools to do the job. He's held off selling players when managers have been adamant that they want to keep them and he's brought players to the club that managers wanted, where possible.
What else does he needed to do? Team talks? Scouting? Tactics? :dunno:

If only he was playing in the team, and doing the TTs scouting etc.:greengrin:wink:

[WeeCraigy]

I'm sick to death of threads like this coming up after a loss, it happens, get over it. get a grip of yourselves.

[The Sea-gull]

I'm sick to death of threads like this coming up after a loss, it happens, get over it. get a grip of yourselves.

Problem is, results like that have happened to us all too often recently and we have been under-performing for years. The reaction in the form of threads like this is inevitable.

[147lothian]

Petrie is the constant, and don't tell me that others make decisions so its not Petries fault, nothing happens at ER without the nod from Petrie, thats how it is at every football club, the chairman has the final say, RP is not a football man yet he has the final say on football related matters, that's what the constant is and its why all the scapegoat managers are all wrong

[jacomo]

Not many argued against the appointments when they were made though.

That just reinforces the OP surely? If we are appointing the right people and have the budget and facilities required, but still fall short year after year, then the blame must lie at the top.

[carnoustiehibee]

So is it petries fault we got beat by raith? I'm confused

I like how people start a stupid thread and never comment on it again. While all the regular posters go bananas and discuss at great detail the same ***** every time we get beat.

[Greenworld]

Not many argued against the appointments when they were made though.

The point I am making it seems we could appoint
The best manager in the world but it wouldn't work or
that is how it is looking...they cannot all be at fault..

[Greenworld]

So is it petries fault we got beat by raith? I'm confused

I like how people start a stupid thread and never comment on it again. While all the regular posters go bananas and discuss at great detail the same ***** every time we get beat.
You know in a funny kind of way your right Yes it is
partly his fault

[147lothian]

So is it petries fault we got beat by raith? I'm confused

I like how people start a stupid thread and never comment on it again. While all the regular posters go bananas and discuss at great detail the same ***** every time we get beat.

Its's Petries fault we are constantly no where near as well run as teams like Motherwell and Dundee Utd season after season yes.

[The Modfather]

Not many argued against the appointments when they were made though.

That's not a valid defense though. As fans we're not involved in the recruitment process or given insight into the parameters of the job. Petrie is (I'm still not convinced he has stepped back and doesn't have the final say) and was, responsable for making the correct appointment, not the most popular one.

[ronaldo7]

I've been here longer than petrie. I must be my fault. I'm out.

[The Modfather]

Petrie has done as much as he can, imho. We've changed managers when things have gone wrong but not before he's given them time to get it right. He's backed each manager with as much money as the club can afford. He's built a training centre to give the managers the tools to do the job. He's held off selling players when managers have been adamant that they want to keep them and he's brought players to the club that managers wanted, where possible.
What else does he needed to do? Team talks? Scouting? Tactics? :dunno:

RE the part in bold, and therein lies the problem IMO. If only he had the same grace and humility as Fenlon and held his hands up and stepped down. Instead we get the spin about unworkable legacies and mysterious 5 year plans to cover his own failings.

Rightly or wrongly Farmer doesn't lead from the top. Thus Petrie should be our leader and driving the values, ethos and performance of the club. Instead, under his watch we got to a position where the atmosphere, profesionalisim and culture of was so bad it required publically adressing as there was no way to spin what had been evident to us fans for a long time.

Under Petrie, what do we as a club stand for? Living within our means, yes that is the correct approach, but we are not unique in that outlook. What is our brand? Do we have a specific style of play? Is this practiced from all age groups to aid the transition to the first team? Does the phillosophy drive the recruitment of managers, or do we change our style based on the beliefs of each particular manager?

What is the mythical 5 year plan? Was there a plan for the previous 5 years and how do we know it's not the exact same plan that has spectacularly failed?

He financially backs managers as well as he can, I'm happy to accept that. However, I wonder if there is/has been any truth to the stories that there are restrictions on how that money is spent I.E quantity over quality.

In my eyes he is in very real danger of becoming synonamous with his own phrase - "unworkable legacies" despite the positives that he has delivered which he can't dine out on for ever.

[Greenworld]

I reckon it's you that's the constant...you're a jinx !! :greengrin

Ive already thought of that and never went for a while
no difference im afraid ....

[Geo_1875]

Admins will need to change this thread title.

I'm pretty sure that Sir Tom has been at Easter Road at least as long as Rod.

That makes two constants.

[Spudster]

Managers come and go ...everytime we here the same
Work within or means pish..how come motherwell...aberdeen...dundee utd all seem to do that but can attract better players..I have never been a petrie hater but he is the one constant in all this can it be all the managers we have employed faults over the years...

The fans are the other constant

[RIP]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League#All-time_SPL_table

4th overall in past 15 years on a points per game basis. Hearts cheated their way to 3rd under Deans and Romanov

For me Rod ticks the structural building and sustainability boxes but I'd like to see a long-term mission, recruitment strategy and brand of football that survives manager to manager.

We have a truly dedicated and hard-wporking Hibs-supporting management team but I think we need visionary modern leadership. Someone who really connects with the support and shares the same culture and values. Hoofing long balls, bypassing the midfield and a lack of bottle in the tackle are not the Hibernian Way. I don't think Malpas even knows what that is - he's been listening to Yams at the wind up http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hibernian-assistant-maurice-malpas-forget-2790249

Other teams manage to play football and look like they want to attack. If Malpas and Butcher can't deliver good to watch football OR a winning team then Petrie needs to put a size 10 boot up their backsides instead of letting them pass the buck

[Geo_1875]

That's not a valid defense though. As fans we're not involved in the recruitment process or given insight into the parameters of the job. Petrie is (I'm still not convinced he has stepped back and doesn't have the final say) and was, responsable for making the correct appointment, not the most popular one.

But what would you have Rod do in an interview situation? He can't pump candidates full of sodium pentathol, shine a 600w spotlight in their face and beat the truth out of them with a rubber hose. If they give all the right answers and bull**** the interviewer, as with any jobseeker, they'll stand a chance of getting the gig. If it all goes wrong he gets rid and starts again. He could have brought in SAF in his prime but he'd have looked **** with some of the players we've had over the years.

[offshorehibby]

So do people honestly believe that getting rid of RP will make us a better team and do they also think that other chairmen and CEO's at Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Motherwell, any football team do not have the final say who's coming in.

[The Modfather]

But what would you have Rod do in an interview situation? He can't pump candidates full of sodium pentathol, shine a 600w spotlight in their face and beat the truth out of them with a rubber hose. If they give all the right answers and bull**** the interviewer, as with any jobseeker, they'll stand a chance of getting the gig. If it all goes wrong he gets rid and starts again. He could have brought in SAF in his prime but he'd have looked **** with some of the players we've had over the years.

People in every walk of life interview and hire candidates, Rod isn't doing anything groundbreaking here. His track record suggests he might want to give the likes of the St Johnstone chairman a call and ask where he's going wrong.

[Greenworld]

But what would you have Rod do in an interview situation? He can't pump candidates full of sodium pentathol, shine a 600w spotlight in their face and beat the truth out of them with a rubber hose. If they give all the right answers and bull**** the interviewer, as with any jobseeker, they'll stand a chance of getting the gig. If it all goes wrong he gets rid and starts again. He could have brought in SAF in his prime but he'd have looked **** with some of the players we've had over the years.

Brilliant reply would be fun to watch

[Geo_1875]

People in every walk of life interview and hire candidates, Rod isn't doing anything groundbreaking here. His track record suggests he might want to give the likes of the St Johnstone chairman a call and ask where he's going wrong.

Or maybe our fans could have a meeting with the fans of St Mirren, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone and ask how we play down our expectations.

[weonlywon6-2]

Managers come and go ...everytime we here the same
Work within or means pish..how come motherwell...aberdeen...dundee utd all seem to do that but can attract better players..I have never been a petrie hater but he is the one constant in all this can it be all the managers we have employed faults over the years...


when things dont go well.we always blame petrie,he must feel like the black sheep of the family!

[greenpaper55]

when things dont go well.we always blame petrie,he must feel like the black sheep of the family!

He has been and still is being handsomely rewarded for his efforts in running a football club, do you think he is doing a good job of that ?. The bottom line is he is paid to make us a success on the park and nothing else, never mind the shiny new stands and the training ground , they count for nothing if all that is served up for years is garbage. I am sure i am not alone in knowing fans who are staying away and the big danger is they might be lost for ever, i tried to get friends to go on Saturday but they vowed after the Malmo disaster they would not be back unless things improved dramatically-no sign of that yet.

[blackpoolhibs]

But what would you have Rod do in an interview situation? He can't pump candidates full of sodium pentathol, shine a 600w spotlight in their face and beat the truth out of them with a rubber hose. If they give all the right answers and bull**** the interviewer, as with any jobseeker, they'll stand a chance of getting the gig. If it all goes wrong he gets rid and starts again. He could have brought in SAF in his prime but he'd have looked **** with some of the players we've had over the years.

Would he have brought them to the club?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Managers come and go ...everytime we here the same
Work within or means pish..how come motherwell...aberdeen...dundee utd all seem to do that but can attract better players..I have never been a petrie hater but he is the one constant in all this can it be all the managers we have employed faults over the years...

THIS

Interesting train of thought there GW, and one that is sure to stop some of the seasoned contributors on here in their tracks.

THAT

Reckon you'll need a tin helmet though, cos there are a lot of happy clappers on here that think Petrie has done a good job. LOL


THE OTHER

[DarlingtonHibee]

He has been and still is being handsomely rewarded for his efforts in running a football club, do you think he is doing a good job of that ?. The bottom line is he is paid to make us a success on the park and nothing else, never mind the shiny new stands and the training ground , they count for nothing if all that is served up for years is garbage. I am sure i am not alone in knowing fans who are staying away and the big danger is they might be lost for ever, i tried to get friends to go on Saturday but they vowed after the Malmo disaster they would not be back unless things improved dramatically-no sign of that yet.

He did not take a salary in previous year's - he is doing what a Chairman should do, ensure the long term future of the club, STF always insisted we would live within our means - your one liner "shiny new stands and the training ground" is laughable, if it was not that sad.

And, yes I travelled 320 miles on Saturday, and was gutted, but RP and STF are the best people for our club.

[weonlywon6-2]

He has been and still is being handsomely rewarded for his efforts in running a football club, do you think he is doing a good job of that ?. The bottom line is he is paid to make us a success on the park and nothing else, never mind the shiny new stands and the training ground , they count for nothing if all that is served up for years is garbage. I am sure i am not alone in knowing fans who are staying away and the big danger is they might be lost for ever, i tried to get
friends to go on Saturday but they vowed after the Malmo disaster they would not be back unless things improved dramatically-no sign of that yet.

Petrie i feel does his best for the club and he has managed to build one of the best stadiums in scotland and possibly the best training facility.
very few other teams have done this.
Aberdeen,Dun Utd etc are not miles in front of us and there is no reason why we cant catch them in the future with the current management team.
petrie also does not play for the team so why on earth do we keep blaming him.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Admins will need to change this thread title.

I'm pretty sure that Sir Tom has been at Easter Road at least as long as Rod.

That makes two constants.

I always thought the only real constant was the fans. I reckon they are more to blame than anyone else. Some of them have been at this club too long.

[allmodcons]

He has mis-managemed the footballing side terribly,
We all understand every manager is a bit of a gamble, but the actions he has taken, the timing of them and general backing of the wrong one's, makes the whole situation worse.

- Not sure he was involved in Fat Boab; But did we not pay him a very big salary? (compared to other managers we had around same time)
- Did we back TM enough in the market? We paid him pittance as well..... and did we pay the players what they deserved, even per what we promised? I know through someone our CIS cup winning captain, and all I can say is Hibs don't always treat players very well, let alone a cup winning captain
- Why was Hughes not good enough 1st time round, but then we go back for him? + Sacking through the season
- Why was Calderwood not good enough 1st time round, then we go back for him?
- Why did he stick by CC and lose us nice remuneration income - It was clear this was never going to work out for the better, + Sacking during season
- Fenlon - Absolutely not a CV worthy of getting the Hibs job....Standing by your man through humiliation after humiliation, + Gone during the season

ETC ETC

(I didn't mention Mixu there, I think he was trying the 'young new manager' approach that worked with TM, and Mixu has proven to do well after Hibs... but clearly wasn't a great appointment, but I have too much respect for Mixu to say anymore than that)

If Petrie could see that Fenlon was not the right man and he wanted TB, then over summer is the right time to make that change. Gives TB a pre-season to shape things, these mid season changes, does nothing good for anyone.

I know a lot of clubs sack managers during the season, but we tend to do it 2-3 months into a season and go from transition to transition. MASSIVE player turnover, year after year.

It doesn't work and it appears we stumble next guy to the next guy. Finally, I think TB will come good, in fact I'm sure of it. It is painful though with another manager with ex managers' players.

Hibs are poor are getting things right that really matter, that is on the park. Other clubs with much less resources seem to outperform us with ease, year after year.


Petrie is the constant, and don't tell me that others make decisions so its not Petries fault, nothing happens at ER without the nod from Petrie, thats how it is at every football club, the chairman has the final say, RP is not a football man yet he has the final say on football related matters, that's what the constant is and its why all the scapegoat managers are all wrong

Given that we have been at best mediocre but, in all honesty, pretty ***** since the mid 1970's seventies how can Petire be the only constant when he joined the board 1996.

[lapsedhibee]

I always thought the only real constant was the fans. I reckon they are more to blame than anyone else.

It's very noticeable that, compared to other teams, we have an exceptionally crappy home record. It's even more noticeable that we tend to play in green and white at home. For pity's sake, why don't we give up the failing colour scheme? :dunno:

[One Day Soon]

Given that we have been at best mediocre but, in all honesty, pretty ***** since the mid 1970's seventies how can Petire be the only constant when he joined the board 1996.


Prepare for the Apocalypse, I'm gonna agree with you again.

Unless I'm badly mistaken Petrie was also here when we were playing great football with Mowbray and McLeish and when we won the League Cup. Or was he on sabbatical while those interludes took place?

Some people go through life needing to put a head on a stick to make sense of the world. It is a lot more complicated than that and all the black and white "It's Petrie's fault" pish just doesn't cut it.

[greenpaper55]

He did not take a salary in previous year's - he is doing what a Chairman should do, ensure the long term future of the club, STF always insisted we would live within our means - your one liner "shiny new stands and the training ground" is laughable, if it was not that sad.

And, yes I travelled 320 miles on Saturday, and was gutted, but RP and STF are the best people for our club.

Here's me thinking our main aim as a football club was to win as many games as possible ?, nae wonder we are where we are with folk like you that are happy to put with up with crap year after year. Shiny new stands and training grounds never won a game yet and what is laughable the number of home games we are winning or not at the moment, you might travel plenty of miles to watch the team but i have been going to ER since the sixties and i don't remember in all that time winning so few home games as this sequence we are having recently ?.

[CropleyWasGod]

He has been and still is being handsomely rewarded for his efforts in running a football club, do you think he is doing a good job of that ?. The bottom line is he is paid to make us a success on the park and nothing else, never mind the shiny new stands and the training ground , they count for nothing if all that is served up for years is garbage. I am sure i am not alone in knowing fans who are staying away and the big danger is they might be lost for ever, i tried to get friends to go on Saturday but they vowed after the Malmo disaster they would not be back unless things improved dramatically-no sign of that yet.

He takes no salary.

[Ronniekirk]

Here's me thinking our main aim as a football club was to win as many games as possible ?, nae wonder we are where we are with folk like you that are happy to put with up with crap year after year. Shiny new stands and training grounds never won a game yet and what is laughable the number of home games we are winning or not at the moment, you might travel plenty of miles to watch the team but i have been going to ER since the sixties and i don't remember in all that time winning so few home games as this sequence we are having recently ?.

Our home record in recent years has been truly awful, and it's clear teams don't fear coming to Easter road anymore ,in fact they come with clear expectation and belief they will take something from us . Mickey weir in his article goes on about our fragility and as fans we are sick fed up hearing about this as we are seeing it repeated under different managers with different players .But if we believe in Butcher which most people did at beginning and we know he has a system he likes to play and a Scouting system designed to identify players that can play in that system then we really have to give him time to deliver on that there is no quick fix and I know that pisses a lot of us off and I know we have failed miserably to capitalise on Sevco s demotion and Hear7s self destruction ,but we are where we are ,and we know we are not going to be in the same position a year from now and will improve again the year after, but to do that we need to back the team and Manager . If we don't do that in decent numbers ,we simply contribute to not giving Butcher the financial Resources he needs for the Major Overhaul we all know he needs to make .It would be a nice gesture if a Sir Tom showed some faith in the newTeam and led by example by making it clear he will use some of his own money in the summer if fans back the team and buy more season tickets but now I am entering into the realms of Fantasy ,so it is down solely to us and we need to stand up and be counted instead of pressing panic button now .Remember TB hasn't made a permanent signing yet so it's crazy to start verbally attacking him at this stage .

[Greenworld]

Prepare for the Apocalypse, I'm gonna agree with you again.

Unless I'm badly mistaken Petrie was also here when we were playing great football with Mowbray and McLeish and when we won the League Cup. Or was he on sabbatical while those interludes took place?

Some people go through life needing to put a head on a stick to make sense of the world. It is a lot more complicated than that and all the black and white "It's Petrie's fault" pish just doesn't cut it.
Ok I will answer that mowbray lucky a group of players
all coming throgh at one time which were exceptional. ..mcleish
almost bankrupt the club but it was good times and I loved it .

[SouthamptonHibs]

Petrie / Hibs signing policy has to change! That's my main gripe with him.
Last year we needed to strengthen time to do this was May/ June as our season started in July.
Result got pumped 9-0 and team never got strengthened until late August, by then we are already out Europe and four games into the league season.
As expected we have a **** season and Pat gets punted.

New gaffer in, first window comes up open for 31days, typical Hibs we sign three loan players on the last day, in the middle of that we loose three games on the bounce (still no got a Decent RB).

Take that signing policy as far back as I can remember! The Hibs team needs to be ready for the first game of the season!

[Greenworld]

Our home record in recent years has been truly awful, and it's clear teams don't fear coming to Easter road anymore ,in fact they come with clear expectation and belief they will take something from us . Mickey weir in his article goes on about our fragility and as fans we are sick fed up hearing about this as we are seeing it repeated under different managers with different players .But if we believe in Butcher which most people did at beginning and we know he has a system he likes to play and a Scouting system designed to identify players that can play in that system then we really have to give him time to deliver on that there is no quick fix and I know that pisses a lot of us off and I know we have failed miserably to capitalise on Sevco s demotion and Hear7s self destruction ,but we are where we are ,and we know we are not going to be in the same position a year from now and will improve again the year after, but to do that we need to back the team and Manager . If we don't do that in decent numbers ,we simply contribute to not giving Butcher the financial Resources he needs for the Major Overhaul we all know he needs to make .It would be a nice gesture if a Sir Tom showed some faith in the newTeam and led by example by making it clear he will use some of his own money in the summer if fans back the team and buy more season tickets but now I am entering into the realms of Fantasy ,so it is down solely to us and we need to stand up and be counted instead of pressing panic button now .Remember TB hasn't made a permanent signing yet so it's crazy to start verbally attacking him at this stage .

Sir tom putting some money in now thats noval I know he is the
saviour but jesus lets not go there thats a whole new thread
how much he has made out of hibs

[Pete]

Petrie had made mistakes in the past but they've all been rectified.

The only missing ingredients now are: Butcher's players, the board giving him time and the fans giving him time.

It will all come together next season. If you're looking for a constant then look no further than sunshine the Leith JINX!

[CropleyWasGod]

Sir tom putting some money in now thats noval I know he is the
saviour but jesus lets not go there thats a whole new thread
how much he has made out of hibs

How much?

[One Day Soon]

Sir tom putting some money in now thats noval I know he is the
saviour but jesus lets not go there thats a whole new thread
how much he has made out of hibs

No, let's go there. Exactly how much has he made out of Hibs?

[Greenworld]

How much?

You want me to guess how much he made out of
straiton or are you saying he has not made anything

[CropleyWasGod]

Youvwant me to guess how much he made out of
straiton or arevyouvsaying he has not made anything

I'd like you to tell us how much he (personally) has made out of Hibs.

[One Day Soon]

You want me to guess how much he made out of
straiton or are you saying he has not made anything

You have implied he has made a fortune - large or small - out of Hibs. I'm sure you wouldn't just have made that up without some knowledge or evidence. So, how much?

[Greenworld]

You have implied he has made a fortune - large or small - out of Hibs. I'm sure you wouldn't just have made that up without some knowledge or evidence. So, how much?

Well well I have struck a nerve I will through it back you
are saying or implying he has not .....ikea etc all just moved
in for nothing ..

[CropleyWasGod]

Well well I have struck a nerve I will through it back you
are saying or implying he has not .....ikea etc all just moved
in for nothing ..

With respect, you made the initial charge, so it is for you to back that up.

If STF made any money out of the land at Straiton, how is that "making money out of Hibs"?

[Greenworld]

With respect, you made the initial charge, so it is for you to back that up.

If STF made any money out of the land at Straiton, how is that "making money out of Hibs"?

We are going of on one here cwg not my intention
but are you seriously suggesting that an opportunity
to make some serious dosh was not a consideration
When he bought hibs....I understand the good foundation
he has left hibs in not saying thats not the case..but a few quid
thrown in now would be nice ..

[One Day Soon]

We are going of on one here cwg not my intention
but are you seriously suggesting that an opportunity
to make some serious dosh was not a consideration
When he bought hibs....I understand the good foundation
he has left hibs in not saying thats not the case..but a few quid
thrown in now would be nice ..

What complete and utter 5hite. Put up or shut up.

[Mikey]

We are going of on one here cwg not my intention
but are you seriously suggesting that an opportunity
to make some serious dosh was not a consideration
When he bought hibs....I understand the good foundation
he has left hibs in not saying thats not the case..but a few quid
thrown in now would be nice ..

STF funded the North and South stands and hasn't had his money back yet.

How does that fit into your theory?

[Greenworld]

What complete and utter 5hite. Put up or shut up.

Why because you dont agree with it what a shame dry your
eyes and stop being a little child

[Greenworld]

STF funded the North and South stands and hasn't had his money back yet.

How do you know that

[CropleyWasGod]

How do you know that

It's in the accounts.

[Mikey]

How do you know that

As CWG says, it's in the accounts.

You can also read about it here.........

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?135671-So-what-happened-to-the-money-from-the-car-park

We keep it for special occasions. Like this :greengrin

Feel free to prove it all wrong. Many have tried :wink:

[Greenworld]

It's in the accounts.

Really debit shown per stand .?

[One Day Soon]

Why because you dont agree with it what a shame dry your
eyes and stop being a little child

No, because you are talking 5hite and you can't evidence your own ridiculous claims. Away and rifle through Kickback, you might find some spurious information there to give your daft claims support.

[Greenworld]

No, because you are talking 5hite and you can't evidence your own ridiculous claims. Away and rifle through Kickback, you might find some spurious information there to give your daft claims support.

LoL brilliant if you dont agree with the net regulars your a jambo
unbelievable....

[One Day Soon]

LoL brilliant if you dont agree with the net regulars your a jambo
unbelievable....


Who says you're a Yam? I'm saying you are talking 5hite, which is quite different (though Yams do it fairly regularly).

You claimed STF made a fortune out of Hibs. Demonstrate that or have the decency to admit you were wrong.

[Greenworld]

Who says you're a Yam? I'm saying you are talking 5hite, which is quite different (though Yams do it fairly regularly).

You claimed STF made a fortune out of Hibs. Demonstrate that or have the decency to admit you were wrong.

Ok we agree that yams talk ***** so I will concede on
stf for now as a token of good will

[Jonnyboy]

Ok we agree that yams talk ***** so I will concede on
stf for now as a token of good will

So do you now agree that STF hasn't been lining his pockets at Hibs' expense?

[Greenworld]

So do you now agree that STF hasn't been lining his pockets at Hibs' expense?

Dont push it jonnyboy lol

[Jonnyboy]

Dont push it jonnyboy lol

So what exactly have you conceded?

[Greenworld]

So what exactly have you conceded?

Politicians reply jonnyboy .....time to work so have a good night

[One Day Soon]

So what exactly have you conceded?

.........I think I might be about ready to join the PM board J, how do I do that?

[CropleyWasGod]

.........I think I might be about ready to join the PM board J, how do I do that?

You have to swear an oath that

1. STF didn't make any money out of Straiton or the car park.

2. RP doesn't draw a salary.

3. the admin pricks aren't really so bad.

[IWasThere2016]

He takes no salary.

But there are benefits, and there is a consultancy payment to a co. RP owns. Last time I asked no one was able to say what consultancy advice Hibs needed/received.

Just saying for balance ken :wink:

[One Day Soon]

You have to swear an oath that

1. STF didn't make any money out of Straiton or the car park.

2. RP doesn't draw a salary.

3. the admin pricks aren't really so bad.


Dammit, I had one and two sorted. But I can't say that about the admins (pricks, obviously).

[Geo_1875]

Would he have brought them to the club?

If he came in in October he wouldn't have had a choice and if he had the same start as he did at Manu he'd have been hounded by the end of hisfirst season.

[Stonewall]

It's in the accounts.

STF has been collecting money from the cash gates every home game for years. Sticks it in the back of his motor and offski.

That's why it's not in the accounts ffs.

FACT

[CropleyWasGod]

STF has been collecting money from the cash gates every home game for years. Sticks it in the back of his motor and offski.

That's why it's not in the accounts ffs.

FACT
Damn.
Never thought of that.
So clever of him. No wonder he's so rich.

[Geo_1875]

STF has been collecting money from the cash gates every home game for years. Sticks it in the back of his motor and offski.

That's why it's not in the accounts ffs.

FACT

Surely it's his chauffeur that puts it in the back of his pink Rolls Royce?

[Caversham Green]

But there are benefits, and there is a consultancy payment to a co. RP owns. Last time I asked no one was able to say what consultancy advice Hibs needed/received.

Just saying for balance ken :wink:

No there isn't.

[CropleyWasGod]

No there isn't.

Thanks for that. I thought the same, but was beginning to doubt myself.

[Caversham Green]

Thanks for that. I thought the same, but was beginning to doubt myself.

I think the payment he was referring to was a payment of £50,000 which was:

Paid in the year ended 31 July 2011 (the year the East Stand was completed - maybe that's what the consultancy was for)
Paid by HFC Holdings - the club didn't bear any of the cost.
Paid to Maidencraig Investments Ltd - a company controlled by STF. Rod Petrie was appointed a director of this company on 27 January 2012 - at least 6 months after the payment was made.

Balance yer erse.

[matty_f]

I think the payment he was referring to was a payment of £50,000 which was:

Paid in the year ended 31 July 2011 (the year the East Stand was completed - maybe that's what the consultancy was for)
Paid by HFC Holdings - the club didn't bear any of the cost.
Paid to Maidencraig Investments Ltd - a company controlled by STF. Rod Petrie was appointed a director of this company on 27 January 2012 - at least 6 months after the payment was made.

Balance yer erse.

Could swear that tqm was well aware of that after last time he tried to imply that rod was taking cash covertly.

[jakeshibs]

Managers come and go ...everytime we here the same
Work within or means pish..how come motherwell...aberdeen...dundee utd all seem to do that but can attract better players..I have never been a petrie hater but he is the one constant in all this can it be all the managers we have employed faults over the years...

Petrie does not pick the team, the tactics nor conduct training, he was here for our cup success but no mention of that. he does his job and we only need to look at the infrastructure to see his improvements how many other teams in Scotland have done so well off the park in such severe financial circumstances. credit were credit is due.

Yes, like many I am not happy have not been for some time with what I endure on the park, however has always made money available to every manager and has backed them.

Why is it when we have a set back its Petrie's fault, I disagree, but only my opinion. players let us down...

[silverhibee]

STF funded the North and South stands and hasn't had his money back yet.

How does that fit into your theory?

Were they not loans he gave to the club and he gets paid back over time.

Only asking please don't give me a hard time. :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

If he came in in October he wouldn't have had a choice and if he had the same start as he did at Manu he'd have been hounded by the end of hisfirst season.

If.

[Peevemor]

Were they not loans he gave to the club and he gets paid back over time.

Only asking please don't give me a hard time. :greengrin

From July 2003


When Farmer bought the club and its related properties from receivers in 1991, he paid just less than 3million, Hibs claimed yesterday. This sum was made up of 850,000 worth of shares, a loan of 240,000 for a player purchase and 1.75million for the Easter Road stadium and its derelict car park.

Until 1999, the club had been shedding an annual 125,000 to lease the stadium from HFC Holdings. It was then agreed that Farmer should sell Easter Road back to Hibs, along with one acre of the old car park. The price of the transaction was 2.5million in cash, and 3.5million in new shares.
Hibs stressed that this had been an outstanding business coup for the club, as it meant they would be able to create a 21st-century stadium at a plain cost of only 2.5million. Farmer personally guaranteed the 4million Bank of Scotland loan that enabled them to press ahead with reconstruction of the main stand.

He also expanded his loan facility to the club by a further 3million to dilute the damage done during Scottish football’s financial meltdown. This was initially a three-year agreement expiring on 31 July 2002, but he has also allowed Hibs to borrow from his personal fortune over the past 12 months

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hibs-reveal-full-extent-of-farmer-s-investment-1-657866

[Mikey]

Were they not loans he gave to the club and he gets paid back over time.

Only asking please don't give me a hard time. :greengrin

It's the shares owned by Morston Securities. As was mentioned in the original thread, anyone who wanted to buy Hibs would probably have to buy those shares for the £5m they cost STF.

That would be when he would get his money back.

[ahibby]

East Mains is another constant.

[CropleyWasGod]

East Mains is another constant.

So is Easter Road.:greengrin

[Bad Martini]

It's the shares owned by Morston Securities. As was mentioned in the original thread, anyone who wanted to buy Hibs would probably have to buy those shares for the £5m they cost STF.

That would be when he would get his money back.

:faf:

**** it, since the mental radgeness is being spouted today, I will chip in :greengrin

Farmer was worth an estimated £130m in 2008...that, was 6 years ago. It's fair to assume he didnt accumulate that by accident so he's bound to have cunningly increased that via business...let us also assume even with a modest interest rate that's grown somewhat...so, we've established he's not skint.

Does anyone seriously think he cares about the £5m he might get back one day, possibly, maybe...from Hibs? As regards a "profit" from it :faf:

Am no fan of Petrie. Never have been and I think the man makes the wrong decisions regularly. But Farmer is another matter....if he wanted to make money (which he managed quite well long before he got involved with Hibs) does anyone seriously think he'd waste time trying to make sweeties from a Scottish fitba team??? There must be a good crop of magical mind bending mushrooms on the go round these parts :greengrin

ENDOF

[Weir7]

It's the shares owned by Morston Securities. As was mentioned in the original thread, anyone who wanted to buy Hibs would probably have to buy those shares for the £5m they cost STF.

That would be when he would get his money back.

Farmer bought Hibs for £725k. Source Rod Petrie. That also included the Car Park which sold for millions.

[Mikey]

Farmer bought Hibs for £725k. Source Rod Petrie. That also included the Car Park which sold for millions.

And what happened to the millions?

[CropleyWasGod]

Farmer bought Hibs for £725k. Source Rod Petrie. That also included the Car Park which sold for millions.

Before Mikey gets in..... :greengrin

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?135671-So-what-happened-to-the-money-from-the-car-park

There ought to be a Bot program in place every time the words "Car Park" "Straiton" and "Rod's salary" come up.

Edit... damn, he got in there first.

[Caversham Green]

It's the shares owned by Morston Securities. As was mentioned in the original thread, anyone who wanted to buy Hibs would probably have to buy those shares for the £5m they cost STF.

That would be when he would get his money back.

Actually, that's changed somewhat. In July 2009 Morston sold the shares to Infocus Investments Ltd for £1. The significance of that is that Infocus are the immediate parent company of HFC Holdings Ltd while Morston are owned by STF, but not within the Hibs group, so Morston appear to have taken a £5m hit on the deal. The HFC Annual Return shows that the preference shares are now 10% owned by Rod Petrie, so they're held in exactly the same ratio as the ordinary shares, which means they have no real effect on the distribution of the proceeds if they were ever to sell the club. The shares have pretty much been written off and are now a paper entry only.



Farmer bought Hibs for £725k. Source Rod Petrie. That also included the Car Park which sold for millions.

All of which came back to the club.

[Onceinawhile]

Lewis Stevenson. Another constant.

[One Day Soon]

Lewis Stevenson. Another constant.

There have been quite a few 'constants' on this thread and on .net over the weekend.

[greenpaper55]

I constantly want Hibs to win.

[ekhibee]

What a lot of people have to remember is that in the summer we will not be starting from 0. Before Butcher gets a decent amount of money to spend a lot of dross has to get moved on first, and if nobody wants them it gets harder. This is where I would make Petrie partially responsible. Certainly with Calderwood and Fenlon, and possibly other managers, he let them stay at the club too long when it was pretty clear nothing was progressing, and consequently they were able to bring in players that we might well have a problem moving on. It'll be interesting to see what kind of budget Butcher gets to play with in the summer, and whether we can get rid of the dross quickly to bring in new faces as soon as possible, because sadly, this team just aren't cutting it, and I'm not just talking about the cup game.

[147lothian]

Farmer is interested in making money, it's something he is very good at, there is a big difference in giving something to Hibs and giving a loan, lots of people will come into buy football clubs when they are going at a low cost, its a business investment for them at the end of the day

[One Day Soon]

Farmer is interested in making money, it's something he is very good at, there is a big difference in giving something to Hibs and giving a loan, lots of people will come into buy football clubs when they are going at a low cost, its a business investment for them at the end of the day

It is almost never a business investment for anyone putting money into a football club. And given how few people there are with the money to buy Scottish clubs the notion of supporting stadium redevelopment, putting the finances in order and building a state of the art training centre (and therefore substantially increasing the cost to anyone else of trying to buy the club) makes no sense in money making terms. You only do these things if you are committed to the institution itself, since you are effectively pricing any money making option out of the market.

Which May explain why Vlad didn't invest in either a training centre or a new main stand for the Yams. He was interested in ripping the pi5h out of them with other people's money, adding it to his business empire as a neat foreign launderette and of course trying to use association with an old Edinburgh institution to give credibility to his 'bank'. Unfortunately it worked the other way around, his 'bank' and wider business dealings gave toxic incredibility to his football club.

[silverhibee]

What a lot of people have to remember is that in the summer we will not be starting from 0. Before Butcher gets a decent amount of money to spend a lot of dross has to get moved on first, and if nobody wants them it gets harder. This is where I would make Petrie partially responsible. Certainly with Calderwood and Fenlon, and possibly other managers, he let them stay at the club too long when it was pretty clear nothing was progressing, and consequently they were able to bring in players that we might well have a problem moving on. It'll be interesting to see what kind of budget Butcher gets to play with in the summer, and whether we can get rid of the dross quickly to bring in new faces as soon as possible, because sadly, this team just aren't cutting it, and I'm not just talking about the cup game.


I suppose that will all come down to how many STs are sold for next season, a top six finish this season could be the turning point on whether some renew or not, it has been said for the last two seasons when we got to two cup finals that the club used this as a way for fans to renew and they would get first dibs on cup final tickets, that will now not happen this season so fans who are STs may decide to wait and see if the club/board stand up and be counted and get players that the management team have identified in straight away in the summer transfer window.

[Hibercelona]

Lewis Stevenson. Another constant.

Hibs have also been a constant! :grr:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Like those ultra violet things that Zapp flies we need
one for folks that are attracted moth stylee to all things anti_Petrie.
Be original. Do folks really believe All the &@£): storms lead to Petrie?
He must have however bristled the snatches of some folks nearest and dearest in a former moustachioed existence...