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Nailrod
09-02-2014, 07:14 AM
Another day, another dismal failure. And in our anger and our frustration we're all chucking rocks and insults at each other. But really the solution is staring us in the face.

If I was the Hibs CEO, when I brought in Butcher and Malpas at the end of November, I would have said to them.

"Listen, guys, we are going to make a statement of intent - a statement that shows that the club has confidence in you as our management team. A statement that shows we intend to get out of this spiral of failure by doing something different.

It's a month until the January transfer window opens. I want you to spend that month identifying a couple of headline-grabbing potential signings. Come January, instead of our usual plodding journeymen and last-chance-salooners, I want to be in a position to invest in a million-pound player. The type of player who is good enough to make an immediate difference. The type of player who, even if he doesn't stay around too long, will bring us back our cash when he leaves. Think Stokes. The type of player who will inspire the fans, and bring some of the doubters back. “I can see the club is trying to do something,” they'll say. “Time for me to respond...”

Of course there's a risk involved, but the risk is small. A run in the cup, an extra 1000 on the home gates till the end of the season, two or three places in the league, top 6 instead of bottom 6 for our last five games, 500 extra season tickets, and we've already got half our money back or more. So go for it. By the end of December I want three target names, and we'll go for them in order of preference..."

That's what I would have done if I was Hibs CEO, and of course I can hear the girly squeals already...

"Yamanomics! Yamanomics! Oh God! Someone! Anyone! Oh thank heavens, it's Saint Rodders, Please, Saint Rodders, won't you please come and save us from Yamanomics!"

Which is great, because that's exactly what Saint Rodders is going to do.

You see, the one single great constant in our years of dismal failure has been Saint Rodders. He's been kicking around the club for something like twenty years now. Over his years as CEO he took out hundreds of thousands of pounds in salary – well over a million, I should think, given that at one point he was the highest-paid Chief Exec in Scottish football. He owes his important position in the SFA – by which he seems to set great store – to his involvement with Hibs.

And the other thing he owns - by an extraordinary stroke of good fortune that seems to operate in direct inverse proportion to the success he has wrought – is 10% of some pretty valuable real estate and infrastructure. All this money, and all this importance, and all these assets, for somebody who has never risked a farthing of his own money in Hibs.

So this is what Saint Rodders is going to do. He's going to put together all his assets in Hibs, and he's going to use them as collateral to borrow every penny he can, and he's going to use the money to do just what I have described above. Of course it's too late for the January window, and it's too late for the cup run, and it's probably too late for the top-6 finish. That's several hundred thousand in lost potential down the drain already.

But if he announces, now, that that is what the strategy will be for the summer, then we might still get a few extra bums on seats this season, and we might still get a few more season ticket sales.

Obviously there's a risk involved. If the guy we sign turns out to be a complete dud, and he doesn't make any difference to the team at all, and we have to punt him for nothing, then Saint Rodders might lose his assets. But given that these are assets that cost him nothing in the first place, and given that all the decisions about who we recruit will be taken by Saint Rodders himself and a management team that he brought in, surely that's an acceptable level of risk? And even in the worst case scenario, as a club we won't be any the worse off than we are right now.

I really can't see any down side. So over to you, Saint Rodders. Time to step up to the mark. Time to put 'your' money where your mouth is. You have nothing to lose.

cocopops1875
09-02-2014, 09:03 AM
Ok I will be first to have a go, How much in your opinion is 10% in Hibs actually worth ?
How rich do you believe Rod to be ?
Would you not agree he has worked hard for the spoils he has received from Hibs ?
If the company you worked for asked you to invest 20 years of share saves to buy something that MIGHT put more bums on seats (but could easily not perform as expected or break down) would you ?
We had Leigh last season a show stopper did the crowd rise massively ?
And where do the wages come form for our million pound player ?

Beefster
09-02-2014, 09:05 AM
While I don't necessarily think we should be splashing the cash in the hope of it giving a return, we/Hibs will come toregret not offering Adam Rooney a permanent deal IMHO.

It does seem a bit silly paying big money for a management team and then tying their hands the first time they get a chance to change things.

cocopops1875
09-02-2014, 09:11 AM
While I don't necessarily think we should be splashing the cash in the hope of it giving a return, we/Hibs will come toregret not offering Adam Rooney a permanent deal IMHO.

It does seem a bit silly paying big money for a management team and then tying their hands the first time they get a chance to change things.
I do agree with this Beefster

Nailrod
09-02-2014, 10:20 AM
Ok I will be first to have a go, How much in your opinion is 10% in Hibs actually worth ?
How rich do you believe Rod to be ?
Would you not agree he has worked hard for the spoils he has received from Hibs ?
If the company you worked for asked you to invest 20 years of share saves to buy something that MIGHT put more bums on seats (but could easily not perform as expected or break down) would you ?
We had Leigh last season a show stopper did the crowd rise massively ?
And where do the wages come form for our million pound player ? You're right. :agree:

I've seen the error of my ways. :doh:

Much better to continue with our existing strategy, proven and highly successful... :panic:

cocopops1875
09-02-2014, 10:31 AM
Good answer fella, now that you have so extensively answered all of my questions your point makes nothing but sense

SMAXXA
09-02-2014, 11:06 AM
Why do we always get a Rod thread after we have a poor result, it's as bad as the yam propaganda release of good news stories after a defeat.

we got beat, we are out the cup tuff *****, the blame lays at the door of butcher and the players ENDOF.

Caversham Green
09-02-2014, 11:20 AM
Rod holds 10% of the shares of the company that owns the football club and a property with a book value of around £650k - that's the sum total of 'all his assets in Hibs'. The size of the shareholding means the shares have limited voting power and they can't be traded on the open market because it's a private company. Additionally there is almost certainly a shareholders' agreement in place that limits the use of the share. The company is loss-making (accumulated profits of around £2m) and the subsidiary has a stated no-dividend policy. All that makes the shares virtually worthless to anyone other than Rod.

It's also something of a circular equation since you're asking an investor to lend money on collateral that will be worthless if the investment fails. In short, the scheme couldn't work. As an aside the holding company has provided £1.25m interest-free working capital to the club, so Rod has effectively put up £125k of his 'own' money to the club.

A scheme that might work is one similar to what I think Dundee United have done. An issue of debentures (necessarily low-yield) to fans, possibly with a mid to long-term conversion to shares. They wouldn't be in any way a sensible business investment and there would be trading restrictions, but at least the people who really are the club would be investing in it - putting their money where their collective mouth is.

ekhibee
09-02-2014, 01:43 PM
Rod holds 10% of the shares of the company that owns the football club and a property with a book value of around £650k - that's the sum total of 'all his assets in Hibs'. The size of the shareholding means the shares have limited voting power and they can't be traded on the open market because it's a private company. Additionally there is almost certainly a shareholders' agreement in place that limits the use of the share. The company is loss-making (accumulated profits of around £2m) and the subsidiary has a stated no-dividend policy. All that makes the shares virtually worthless to anyone other than Rod.

It's also something of a circular equation since you're asking an investor to lend money on collateral that will be worthless if the investment fails. In short, the scheme couldn't work. As an aside the holding company has provided £1.25m interest-free working capital to the club, so Rod has effectively put up £125k of his 'own' money to the club.

A scheme that might work is one similar to what I think Dundee United have done. An issue of debentures (necessarily low-yield) to fans, possibly with a mid to long-term conversion to shares. They wouldn't be in any way a sensible business investment and there would be trading restrictions, but at least the people who really are the club would be investing in it - putting their money where their collective mouth is.
Much as I think a debenture scheme would be a great idea, whilst accepting that it's not necessarily a profitable investment, I can't really see Hibs doing something like that, not just now anyway. A lot of fans, even the ones who regularly renew their season tickets, will very probably want to see investment on the park before considering something like that, and that really takes us back to square one. The economic climate, though steadily improving, still points to the fact that for a lot of people times are financially hard, and a season ticket at Hibs isn't cheap, never mind a larger investment covering x amount of years. It might well be something for the future though.

Andy74
09-02-2014, 01:44 PM
While I don't necessarily think we should be splashing the cash in the hope of it giving a return, we/Hibs will come toregret not offering Adam Rooney a permanent deal IMHO.

It does seem a bit silly paying big money for a management team and then tying their hands the first time they get a chance to change things.

I thought Butcher didn't want a permanent deal for Rooney as better would be available in the summer?

MWHIBBIES
09-02-2014, 01:53 PM
1m on a player, yeah that's possible right enough

Beefster
09-02-2014, 02:59 PM
I thought Butcher didn't want a permanent deal for Rooney as better would be available in the summer?

I thought he said that we were only looking to do loan deals in January.

Either way, the point stands - I think that we/Hibs will rue not taking the opportunity to get him permanently.

NadeAteMyLunch!
09-02-2014, 03:43 PM
Hardly Rod's fault that we defended like school girls and let a pishy div 1 team- who can't usually score for toffee-knock 3 goals past us

Iain G
09-02-2014, 06:54 PM
Why do we always get a Rod thread after we have a poor result, it's as bad as the yam propaganda release of good news stories after a defeat.

we got beat, we are out the cup tuff *****, the blame lays at the door of butcher and the players ENDOF.

Am sure the original post was written ages ago, being finely honed and tuned and tweaked so it couldbe issued with great glee and excitement on here the first time Butcher and Malpas really stuffed up.

poolman
09-02-2014, 07:09 PM
Another day, another dismal failure. And in our anger and our frustration we're all chucking rocks and insults at each other. But really the solution is staring us in the face.

If I was the Hibs CEO, when I brought in Butcher and Malpas at the end of November, I would have said to them.

"Listen, guys, we are going to make a statement of intent - a statement that shows that the club has confidence in you as our management team. A statement that shows we intend to get out of this spiral of failure by doing something different.

It's a month until the January transfer window opens. I want you to spend that month identifying a couple of headline-grabbing potential signings. Come January, instead of our usual plodding journeymen and last-chance-salooners, I want to be in a position to invest in a million-pound player. The type of player who is good enough to make an immediate difference. The type of player who, even if he doesn't stay around too long, will bring us back our cash when he leaves. Think Stokes. The type of player who will inspire the fans, and bring some of the doubters back. “I can see the club is trying to do something,” they'll say. “Time for me to respond...”

Of course there's a risk involved, but the risk is small. A run in the cup, an extra 1000 on the home gates till the end of the season, two or three places in the league, top 6 instead of bottom 6 for our last five games, 500 extra season tickets, and we've already got half our money back or more. So go for it. By the end of December I want three target names, and we'll go for them in order of preference..."

That's what I would have done if I was Hibs CEO, and of course I can hear the girly squeals already...

"Yamanomics! Yamanomics! Oh God! Someone! Anyone! Oh thank heavens, it's Saint Rodders, Please, Saint Rodders, won't you please come and save us from Yamanomics!"

Which is great, because that's exactly what Saint Rodders is going to do.

You see, the one single great constant in our years of dismal failure has been Saint Rodders. He's been kicking around the club for something like twenty years now. Over his years as CEO he took out hundreds of thousands of pounds in salary – well over a million, I should think, given that at one point he was the highest-paid Chief Exec in Scottish football. He owes his important position in the SFA – by which he seems to set great store – to his involvement with Hibs.

And the other thing he owns - by an extraordinary stroke of good fortune that seems to operate in direct inverse proportion to the success he has wrought – is 10% of some pretty valuable real estate and infrastructure. All this money, and all this importance, and all these assets, for somebody who has never risked a farthing of his own money in Hibs.

So this is what Saint Rodders is going to do. He's going to put together all his assets in Hibs, and he's going to use them as collateral to borrow every penny he can, and he's going to use the money to do just what I have described above. Of course it's too late for the January window, and it's too late for the cup run, and it's probably too late for the top-6 finish. That's several hundred thousand in lost potential down the drain already.

But if he announces, now, that that is what the strategy will be for the summer, then we might still get a few extra bums on seats this season, and we might still get a few more season ticket sales.

Obviously there's a risk involved. If the guy we sign turns out to be a complete dud, and he doesn't make any difference to the team at all, and we have to punt him for nothing, then Saint Rodders might lose his assets. But given that these are assets that cost him nothing in the first place, and given that all the decisions about who we recruit will be taken by Saint Rodders himself and a management team that he brought in, surely that's an acceptable level of risk? And even in the worst case scenario, as a club we won't be any the worse off than we are right now.

I really can't see any down side. So over to you, Saint Rodders. Time to step up to the mark. Time to put 'your' money where your mouth is. You have nothing to lose.


Five minutes of reading about nothing

FitbaFolkKen
09-02-2014, 07:15 PM
Another day, another dismal failure. And in our anger and our frustration we're all chucking rocks and insults at each other. But really the solution is staring us in the face.

If I was the Hibs CEO, when I brought in Butcher and Malpas at the end of November, I would have said to them.

"Listen, guys, we are going to make a statement of intent - a statement that shows that the club has confidence in you as our management team. A statement that shows we intend to get out of this spiral of failure by doing something different.

It's a month until the January transfer window opens. I want you to spend that month identifying a couple of headline-grabbing potential signings. Come January, instead of our usual plodding journeymen and last-chance-salooners, I want to be in a position to invest in a million-pound player. The type of player who is good enough to make an immediate difference. The type of player who, even if he doesn't stay around too long, will bring us back our cash when he leaves. Think Stokes. The type of player who will inspire the fans, and bring some of the doubters back. “I can see the club is trying to do something,” they'll say. “Time for me to respond...”

Of course there's a risk involved, but the risk is small. A run in the cup, an extra 1000 on the home gates till the end of the season, two or three places in the league, top 6 instead of bottom 6 for our last five games, 500 extra season tickets, and we've already got half our money back or more. So go for it. By the end of December I want three target names, and we'll go for them in order of preference..."

That's what I would have done if I was Hibs CEO, and of course I can hear the girly squeals already...

"Yamanomics! Yamanomics! Oh God! Someone! Anyone! Oh thank heavens, it's Saint Rodders, Please, Saint Rodders, won't you please come and save us from Yamanomics!"

Which is great, because that's exactly what Saint Rodders is going to do.

You see, the one single great constant in our years of dismal failure has been Saint Rodders. He's been kicking around the club for something like twenty years now. Over his years as CEO he took out hundreds of thousands of pounds in salary – well over a million, I should think, given that at one point he was the highest-paid Chief Exec in Scottish football. He owes his important position in the SFA – by which he seems to set great store – to his involvement with Hibs.

And the other thing he owns - by an extraordinary stroke of good fortune that seems to operate in direct inverse proportion to the success he has wrought – is 10% of some pretty valuable real estate and infrastructure. All this money, and all this importance, and all these assets, for somebody who has never risked a farthing of his own money in Hibs.

So this is what Saint Rodders is going to do. He's going to put together all his assets in Hibs, and he's going to use them as collateral to borrow every penny he can, and he's going to use the money to do just what I have described above. Of course it's too late for the January window, and it's too late for the cup run, and it's probably too late for the top-6 finish. That's several hundred thousand in lost potential down the drain already.

But if he announces, now, that that is what the strategy will be for the summer, then we might still get a few extra bums on seats this season, and we might still get a few more season ticket sales.

Obviously there's a risk involved. If the guy we sign turns out to be a complete dud, and he doesn't make any difference to the team at all, and we have to punt him for nothing, then Saint Rodders might lose his assets. But given that these are assets that cost him nothing in the first place, and given that all the decisions about who we recruit will be taken by Saint Rodders himself and a management team that he brought in, surely that's an acceptable level of risk? And even in the worst case scenario, as a club we won't be any the worse off than we are right now.

I really can't see any down side. So over to you, Saint Rodders. Time to step up to the mark. Time to put 'your' money where your mouth is. You have nothing to lose.

I must be missing something, the obvious solution is to go and spend a million on one player????

I'm glad you aren't the CEO, I could imagine us having a showboat signing every time we changed management team! On top of that surely if you buy someone at that price then the level of wage is equivalent, leading to one player in the squad getting paid a lot more than than the rest.

I'm not convinced this is a serious post, and for that reason, i'm out!

Carheenlea
09-02-2014, 07:18 PM
I thought he said that we were only looking to do loan deals in January.

Either way, the point stands - I think that we/Hibs will rue not taking the opportunity to get him permanently.

I took it to mean that Terry Butcher maybe only fancied him on a loan deal rather than a permanent one as Andy74 has suggested in his post. Has Terry Butcher indicted that he would have liked to have signed him on a permanent deal? Would be disappointing if that was indeed the case.

ionahibby
09-02-2014, 07:27 PM
These folk that continue to blame the board after defeats like yesterday is becoming pretty tiring considering the amount of cash rodders spent on getting butcher, malpas and co in the first place. Do we even know it was rod's decision to offer Rooney a loan deal in the first place? Who says it wasn't butcher? Imo a decent manager should be able to get quality players in a show string budget which supposedly butcher is good at that! At the of the day the blame lies with manager and the players stop blaming the board! It's thanks to them we are in the great financial state we lie in , a decent stadium, training facilities and overall a much better state than most Scottish clubs!

ancient hibee
09-02-2014, 07:44 PM
If two of the best(and most capped)international defenders of the last 30 years can't get SPL defenders to play any better than a Girl Guides team it's hardly Rodders fault is it.

The_Exile
09-02-2014, 07:49 PM
Another day, *another.......

Give me one example of another team of similar stature pulling this off successfully and I'm in.

(The reason you won't find an example is even the most mental chairman knows that something like this is f*****g suicide, but bash on all the same)

jakeshibs
10-02-2014, 09:42 AM
These folk that continue to blame the board after defeats like yesterday is becoming pretty tiring considering the amount of cash rodders spent on getting butcher, malpas and co in the first place. Do we even know it was rod's decision to offer Rooney a loan deal in the first place? Who says it wasn't butcher? Imo a decent manager should be able to get quality players in a show string budget which supposedly butcher is good at that! At the of the day the blame lies with manager and the players stop blaming the board! It's thanks to them we are in the great financial state we lie in , a decent stadium, training facilities and overall a much better state than most Scottish clubs!

I agree well said,

The Sea-gull
10-02-2014, 09:55 AM
I thought Butcher didn't want a permanent deal for Rooney as better would be available in the summer?

Think that is what was said officially but I suspect Butcher would have loved to have had him and Rooney would have liked to have worked with him again. Apparently Rooney is good pals with Johnny Hayes though so maybe he was always going to go to Aberdeen.

Fact is whether we wanted him or not and whether he wanted to come, the money was probably just not there just now due to whatever it was we spent on James Collins and pay offs/compensation deals gone out to exiting and incoming management teams.

StevieC
10-02-2014, 10:11 AM
will very probably want to see investment on the park

Why do supporters use this word "investment"? Signing football players are not investments (not in this day and age anyway), they are a running cost.
Of course, you might get "lucky" with a player from time to time but you are more likely to just end up over-budget .. and we all know where over-budget can get you!


Not a dig at you ek, just using your post to highlight "investment"