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View Full Version : Terry Butcher - In charge for 12 weeks



One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 12:04 AM
1. Has been in charge for just 12 weeks
2. Has had one transfer window in which he explicitly said he wasn't going to rush to buy players because he wanted to wait until the summer to get the right players long term.
3. Is playing a hand dealt to him by Fenlon in terms of his squad.
4. Has the task of turning around a long term weak mentality at the club and that will take a lot of time.
5. Is not responsible for the abjectly 5hite performance of previous managers and players which we carry around on our shoulders like a giant monkey on our backs.
6. Deserves some time, loyalty and trust from the support in order to get us to the style of football and the improvement we want to see.
7. Will face bad days like today again many more times before we get to a place where we can be happy.
8. Is a golden opportunity, because of his reputation and connections, for us to attract players we would otherwise struggle to know about and bring to the club.
9. Has not tried to dress up poor performances and has shown in bringing in Watmore that he knows what we need.
10. Should not be undermined by fans, Board or anyone else in respect of KT or any other player. He is the manager, he is in charge and if any player can't handle that then the player can **** off as far as I'm concerned. We should never be willing to do anything that encourages players to think they are running the club - that ends up in players going to Petrie behind the manager's back and/or the George Street mentality that has flecked us up in the past.
11. Any Yams reading this or posting on here today - and there have been plenty of you stirring the pot - enjoy your many years in the destitute wilderness.

londonhibby
09-02-2014, 12:14 AM
1. Has been in charge for just 12 weeks
2. Has had one transfer window in which he explicitly said he wasn't going to rush to buy players because he wanted to wait until the summer to get the right players long term.
3. Is playing a hand dealt to him by Fenlon in terms of his squad.
4. Has the task of turning around a long term weak mentality at the club and that will take a lot of time.
5. Is not responsible for the abjectly 5hite performance of previous managers and players which we carry around on our shoulders like a giant monkey on our backs.
6. Deserves some time, loyalty and trust from the support in order to get us to the style of football and the improvement we want to see.
7. Will face bad days like today again many more times before we get to a place where we can be happy.
8. Is a golden opportunity, because of his reputation and connections, for us to attract players we would otherwise struggle to know about and bring to the club.
9. Has not tried to dress up poor performances and has shown in bringing in Watmore that he knows what we need.
10. Should not be undermined by fans, Board or anyone else in respect of KT or any other player. He is the manager, he is in charge and if any player can't handle that then the player can **** off as far as I'm concerned. We should never be willing to do anything that encourages players to think they are running the club - that ends up in players going to Petrie behind the manager's back and/or the George Street mentality that has flecked us up in the past.
11. Any Yams reading this or posting on here today - and there have been plenty of you stirring the pot - enjoy your many years in the destitute wilderness.

:thumbsup:

JollyGreenGiant
09-02-2014, 12:17 AM
1. Has been in charge for just 12 weeks
2. Has had one transfer window in which he explicitly said he wasn't going to rush to buy players because he wanted to wait until the summer to get the right players long term.
3. Is playing a hand dealt to him by Fenlon in terms of his squad.
4. Has the task of turning around a long term weak mentality at the club and that will take a lot of time.
5. Is not responsible for the abjectly 5hite performance of previous managers and players which we carry around on our shoulders like a giant monkey on our backs.
6. Deserves some time, loyalty and trust from the support in order to get us to the style of football and the improvement we want to see.
7. Will face bad days like today again many more times before we get to a place where we can be happy.
8. Is a golden opportunity, because of his reputation and connections, for us to attract players we would otherwise struggle to know about and bring to the club.
9. Has not tried to dress up poor performances and has shown in bringing in Watmore that he knows what we need.
10. Should not be undermined by fans, Board or anyone else in respect of KT or any other player. He is the manager, he is in charge and if any player can't handle that then the player can **** off as far as I'm concerned. We should never be willing to do anything that encourages players to think they are running the club - that ends up in players going to Petrie behind the manager's back and/or the George Street mentality that has flecked us up in the past.
11. Any Yams reading this or posting on here today - and there have been plenty of you stirring the pot - enjoy your many years in the destitute wilderness.


This :agree:

Niffy
09-02-2014, 09:42 AM
Everyone is assuming Hibs are going to sign a range of quality players in the summer.
Just because the current manager - like all the previous ones - said so.

I'll be delighted if we do, but don't hold your breath waiting on any team saving signings.

Heisenberg
09-02-2014, 09:46 AM
I certainly don't think we'll sign top quality players. I think we'll replace the duds brought in by Fenlon with guys who Butcher knows will do a job (either recommended by Marsella or ex ICT players) and will buy into his style. Folk writing him off just now is utterly ridiculous. Fenlon got plenty time after much worse than yesterday IMO.

Niffy
09-02-2014, 09:56 AM
I'm not writing off TB, but Hibs ALWAYS seem to get shafted on players that we REALLY need for whatever reason.
Rod dragging out the negotiations, and player goes elsewhere ?
Decent players warned off Hibs ?

Who knows, but we all wait for the window to open then watch as on the last 3 days rumours of 3 or 4 players , too poor for their current team are brought into the rumours thread.

Then manager says how difficult it's been etc, how me just missed out on golden boy 1 and 2 but these lads will offer us what we need.

All this time every other team are shoring up their teams and picking up points.

Hibercelona
09-02-2014, 10:01 AM
I trust Butcher to turn this around. He's no soft touch and no abuse from any "fans" is going to deter him.

This loop we're stuck in, has to come to an end. We need to play our part in order to break it.

Phil D. Rolls
09-02-2014, 10:04 AM
I trust Butcher to turn this around. He's no soft touch and no abuse from any "fans" is going to deter him.

This loop we're stuck in, has to come to an end. We need to play our part in order to break it.

At last some positivity. Agree with what you say, and maybe it's time for unhappy people to put up, or shut up. No one makes them go to games, and maybe they need to show a bit more maturity than spitting the dummy when things don't go their way.

One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 10:07 AM
At last some positivity. Agree with what you say, and maybe it's time for unhappy people to put up, or shut up. No one makes them go to games, and maybe they need to show a bit more maturity than spitting the dummy when things don't go their way.

This (no really)

Heisenberg
09-02-2014, 10:09 AM
I trust Butcher to turn this around. He's no soft touch and no abuse from any "fans" is going to deter him.

This loop we're stuck in, has to come to an end. We need to play our part in order to break it.

Most definitely. Some folk need to calm down and give it time. That won't be easy considering how often we've had to do it in recent times but this manager is better than the last three at least. He'll get it right. Of that I have no doubt.

Smartie
09-02-2014, 10:12 AM
Yesterday's result was a disaster. We have had hugely inflated season ticket holder numbers off the back of our consecutive cup finals and clever marketing around cup final tickets, along with the home draws and televised ties over the past few years.

With no home derbies next year (and to a far lesser extent no Huns) our income is going to be massively reduced.

I believe Butcher has already experienced the frustrations that go with being a Hibs manager during a transfer window, missing out on his main targets.

When he realises what Hibs are really all about and what he has at his disposal next summer, he won't last the close season - he'll walk.

Then we'll get another inexperienced dud in who will appreciate the "opportunity to manage such a magnificent club" and we'll be back to square one.

I'm sick of it. IMO the managers may change but the problems remain.

One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 10:17 AM
Yesterday's result was a disaster. We have had hugely inflated season ticket holder numbers off the back of our consecutive cup finals and clever marketing around cup final tickets, along with the home draws and televised ties over the past few years.

With no home derbies next year (and to a far lesser extent no Huns) our income is going to be massively reduced.

I believe Butcher has already experienced the frustrations that go with being a Hibs manager during a transfer window, missing out on his main targets.

When he realises what Hibs are really all about and what he has at his disposal next summer, he won't last the close season - he'll walk.

Then we'll get another inexperienced dud in who will appreciate the "opportunity to manage such a magnificent club" and we'll be back to square one.

I'm sick of it. IMO the managers may change but the problems remain.


What an utterly Yamtastic post.

Smartie
09-02-2014, 10:30 AM
What an utterly Yamtastic post.

Trust me, I'd love to be proved wrong on this.

If we have anything like an acceptable squad turn up for the first day of pre-season training next year then I may just get the feeling that it will be different. Even a couple of pre-contracts confirmed early would suggest that we mean business.

The longer the summer goes on without serious transfer activity and the more likely that Butcher is going to get his squad completed and fit about 6 weeks into the league season, the more pissed off he'll get. At least we don't have a European game in mid-July to have to be remotely ready for this year.

Decent managers with their reputations at stake don't hang around - see JC for that.

Aldo
09-02-2014, 10:33 AM
Yesterday's result was a disaster. We have had hugely inflated season ticket holder numbers off the back of our consecutive cup finals and clever marketing around cup final tickets, along with the home draws and televised ties over the past few years. With no home derbies next year (and to a far lesser extent no Huns) our income is going to be massively reduced. I believe Butcher has already experienced the frustrations that go with being a Hibs manager during a transfer window, missing out on his main targets. When he realises what Hibs are really all about and what he has at his disposal next summer, he won't last the close season - he'll walk. Then we'll get another inexperienced dud in who will appreciate the "opportunity to manage such a magnificent club" and we'll be back to square one. I'm sick of it. IMO the managers may change but the problems remain.

Really. Wow!!!

Prey tell who our main targets were......

At least we CAN sign players.



11987

Have a wee look at this. This for me everyday of the week. Enjoy

Aldo
09-02-2014, 10:35 AM
Trust me, I'd love to be proved wrong on this. If we have anything like an acceptable squad turn up for the first day of pre-season training next year then I may just get the feeling that it will be different. Even a couple of pre-contracts confirmed early would suggest that we mean business. The longer the summer goes on without serious transfer activity and the more likely that Butcher is going to get his squad completed and fit about 6 weeks into the league season, the more pissed off he'll get. At least we don't have a European game in mid-July to have to be remotely ready for this year. Decent managers with their reputations at stake don't hang around - see JC for that.

What is the point of signing players for the sake of it.

Quality over quantity everytime.

The negativity emanating from your last 2 post is well.... Strange (maybe not tho eh!!)

Hibercelona
09-02-2014, 10:36 AM
I was never really convinced with the last few managers, even right at the beginning of their tenture, I just knew it wasn't going to work.

Pat Fenlon - Really nice guy, but almost too nice for his own good.

Colin Calderwood - Doesn't really need an explaination, he simply wasn't bothered right from the start.

John Hughes - Had a best mate/worst enemy type of attitude, which was inevitably going to lead to unrest behind the scenes.


But looking at Terry Butcher, I get the sense of a very well balanced character. He's tough, but without the bully factor. You also know how much it means to him, as he left a very strong position at ICT in order to come here.

He's not like the previous managers. There's something different about Terry Butcher and I can see him managing at a much higher level at some point in his career.

Give this man time. He will turn it around, he has what it takes.

One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 10:39 AM
I honestly think that anyone with a post count of less than 1,000 should not post on the weekend of a defeat. And even then maybe only with the permission of any two admins.

MrSmith
09-02-2014, 10:43 AM
At last some sense and sensibility!

Bloody ridiculous the amount of urine written on .net since yesterday!! As a fan of 40+ years, through the good, bad and downright ugly! I cannot believe, score that, I am so disappointed in some of our fans!

Yes, some players need a hard look at themselves, as some of us do too!
Yes, football hasn't been good nor even watchable at points but neither has some of our fan behavior!

To paraphrase a famous politician:

Never on the field of Hibernian FC was so much owed by so few to the many! Never give up!

In the 80's, when it was ugly, we supported it all to the bitter end! Where is our resolve and our courage to see this through?

Hibercelona
09-02-2014, 10:45 AM
I honestly think that anyone with a post count of less than 1,000 should not post on the weekend of a defeat. And even then maybe only with the permission of any two admins.

I think we need to put an end to all of this "undercover yam" tosh. It's dragged on for far too long.

This "guilty until proven innocent" attitude, is only causing more divide among supporters.

Sure, they'll be some bams on here who are clearly not Hibs fans, but it's nowhere near the number that we make it out to be.

Aldo
09-02-2014, 10:45 AM
I was never really convinced with the last few managers, even right at the beginning of their tenture, I just knew it wasn't going to work. Pat Fenlon - Really nice guy, but almost too nice for his own good. Colin Calderwood - Doesn't really need an explaination, he simply wasn't bothered right from the start. John Hughes - Had a best mate/worst enemy type of attitude, which was inevitably going to lead to unrest behind the scenes. But looking at Terry Butcher, I get the sense of a very well balanced character. He's tough, but without the bully factor. You also know how much it means to him, as he left a very strong position at ICT in order to come here. He's not like the previous managers. There's something different about Terry Butcher and I can see him managing at a much higher level at some point in his career. Give this man time. He will turn it around, he has what it takes.

Well said mate.

The problem on here at the moment is the trolls and Yams (and you know who you are and so do we) stirring the ***** big time.

Yip woeful disgraceful result against a poor team. TB will have to take some responsibility but we move on.

Folk expecting us to run before we have just started crawling.

Folk expecting miracles from the off need to get a grip.

It'll take time and folk need to realise this.

Smartie
09-02-2014, 10:46 AM
I was never really convinced with the last few managers, even right at the beginning of their tenture, I just knew it wasn't going to work.

Pat Fenlon - Really nice guy, but almost too nice for his own good.

Colin Calderwood - Doesn't really need an explaination, he simply wasn't bothered right from the start.

John Hughes - Had a best mate/worst enemy type of attitude, which was inevitably going to lead to unrest behind the scenes.


But looking at Terry Butcher, I get the sense of a very well balanced character. He's tough, but without the bully factor. You also know how much it means to him, as he left a very strong position at ICT in order to come here.

He's not like the previous managers. There's something different about Terry Butcher and I can see him managing at a much higher level at some point in his career.

Give this man time. He will turn it around, he has what it takes.


I get the same feeling - I think he's different, and better. I'm more than willing to give him time. I also feel that Mixu and Yogi should have been given more time and backing but that's another story for another thread.

I just hope that Butcher gives us time - both in terms of us (the fans) and the club/board. I also think he's capable of managing at a higher level - he won't get an opportunity to do that if he gets the piss taken out of him here.

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2014, 10:46 AM
Yesterday's result was a disaster. We have had hugely inflated season ticket holder numbers off the back of our consecutive cup finals and clever marketing around cup final tickets, along with the home draws and televised ties over the past few years.

With no home derbies next year (and to a far lesser extent no Huns) our income is going to be massively reduced.

I believe Butcher has already experienced the frustrations that go with being a Hibs manager during a transfer window, missing out on his main targets.

When he realises what Hibs are really all about and what he has at his disposal next summer, he won't last the close season - he'll walk.

Then we'll get another inexperienced dud in who will appreciate the "opportunity to manage such a magnificent club" and we'll be back to square one.

I'm sick of it. IMO the managers may change but the problems remain.

:faf::faf::jamboak:

Butcher built a decent side on a fraction of what we will give him, thats why he came to the club. He also has the facilities at east mains to get them playing the way he wants. Another reason why he came to the club.

You wont have a club soon. :loser:

Phil D. Rolls
09-02-2014, 10:47 AM
Yesterday's result was a disaster. We have had hugely inflated season ticket holder numbers off the back of our consecutive cup finals and clever marketing around cup final tickets, along with the home draws and televised ties over the past few years.

With no home derbies next year (and to a far lesser extent no Huns) our income is going to be massively reduced.

I believe Butcher has already experienced the frustrations that go with being a Hibs manager during a transfer window, missing out on his main targets.

When he realises what Hibs are really all about and what he has at his disposal next summer, he won't last the close season - he'll walk.

Then we'll get another inexperienced dud in who will appreciate the "opportunity to manage such a magnificent club" and we'll be back to square one.

I'm sick of it. IMO the managers may change but the problems remain.

Golly, I hope Petrie and co. have budgeted for this. I'd hate for them to go round robbing charities, or asking us for our kids Xmas money, just to keep our club going.

By the way, I think you'll find that there will be no derbies, home and away, for some time to come, possibly forever.

NORTHERNHIBBY
09-02-2014, 10:56 AM
Butcher will get it right but it will take time and a lot of players in and out. That also needs done within our resources. One look over the road shows you what you get if you try to do things too quickly with players you can't afford. May end up losing more than just a few games.

Cropley10
09-02-2014, 10:57 AM
1. Has been in charge for just 12 weeks
2. Has had one transfer window in which he explicitly said he wasn't going to rush to buy players because he wanted to wait until the summer to get the right players long term.
3. Is playing a hand dealt to him by Fenlon in terms of his squad.
4. Has the task of turning around a long term weak mentality at the club and that will take a lot of time.
5. Is not responsible for the abjectly 5hite performance of previous managers and players which we carry around on our shoulders like a giant monkey on our backs.
6. Deserves some time, loyalty and trust from the support in order to get us to the style of football and the improvement we want to see.
7. Will face bad days like today again many more times before we get to a place where we can be happy.
8. Is a golden opportunity, because of his reputation and connections, for us to attract players we would otherwise struggle to know about and bring to the club.
9. Has not tried to dress up poor performances and has shown in bringing in Watmore that he knows what we need.
10. Should not be undermined by fans, Board or anyone else in respect of KT or any other player. He is the manager, he is in charge and if any player can't handle that then the player can **** off as far as I'm concerned. We should never be willing to do anything that encourages players to think they are running the club - that ends up in players going to Petrie behind the manager's back and/or the George Street mentality that has flecked us up in the past.
11. Any Yams reading this or posting on here today - and there have been plenty of you stirring the pot - enjoy your many years in the destitute wilderness.

Well said. Thank youl


Everyone is assuming Hibs are going to sign a range of quality players in the summer.
Just because the current manager - like all the previous ones - said so.

I'll be delighted if we do, but don't hold your breath waiting on any team saving signings.

It's about the right sort of player, rather than outright quality - it's character we need.


I certainly don't think we'll sign top quality players. I think we'll replace the duds brought in by Fenlon with guys who Butcher knows will do a job (either recommended by Marsella or ex ICT players) and will buy into his style. Folk writing him off just now is utterly ridiculous. Fenlon got plenty time after much worse than yesterday IMO.

Spot on


I was never really convinced with the last few managers, even right at the beginning of their tenture, I just knew it wasn't going to work.

Pat Fenlon - Really nice guy, but almost too nice for his own good.

Colin Calderwood - Doesn't really need an explaination, he simply wasn't bothered right from the start.

John Hughes - Had a best mate/worst enemy type of attitude, which was inevitably going to lead to unrest behind the scenes.


But looking at Terry Butcher, I get the sense of a very well balanced character. He's tough, but without the bully factor. You also know how much it means to him, as he left a very strong position at ICT in order to come here.

He's not like the previous managers. There's something different about Terry Butcher and I can see him managing at a much higher level at some point in his career.

Give this man time. He will turn it around, he has what it takes.

Totally agree

One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 10:58 AM
I think we need to put an end to all of this "undercover yam" tosh. It's dragged on for far too long.

This "guilty until proven innocent" attitude, is only causing more divide among supporters.

Sure, they'll be some bams on here who are clearly not Hibs fans, but it's nowhere near the number that we make it out to be.


Uh-huh and what about the bams on here who are clearly Hibs fans?

Hibercelona
09-02-2014, 11:06 AM
Uh-huh and what about the bams on here who are clearly Hibs fans?

You have to be a bit bammy to be a Hibs fan. It removes any shred of sanity you have. :wink:

Unless somebody is bammy enough, Hibs aren't they club for them. :greengrin

One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 11:09 AM
You have to be a bit bammy to be a Hibs fan. It removes any shred of sanity you have. :wink:

Unless somebody is bammy enough, Hibs aren't they club for them. :greengrin


You're definitely a bam. I'll vouch for you, I've seen your posts on the Holy Ground.

Hibercelona
09-02-2014, 11:10 AM
You're definitely a bam. I'll vouch for you, I've seen your posts on the Holy Ground.

:greengrin

Aldo
09-02-2014, 11:19 AM
:faf::faf::jamboak: Butcher built a decent side on a fraction of what we will give him, thats why he came to the club. He also has the facilities at east mains to get them playing the way he wants. Another reason why he came to the club. You wont have a club soon. :loser:

Ha ha BH. This made me laugh out loud. Brilliant reply.


Golly, I hope Petrie and co. have budgeted for this. I'd hate for them to go round robbing charities, or asking us for our kids Xmas money, just to keep our club going. By the way, I think you'll find that there will be no derbies, home and away, for some time to come, possibly forever.

Still laughing at BH's reply and now this. Brilliant.

Smartie
09-02-2014, 11:22 AM
I can assure you all that I am a Hibs fan.

I wouldn't normally describe myself as a bam but going out the Scottish Cup tends to bring the worst out in me.

My concern is really the difficulty of the task that Butcher faces. I accept that we need to keep within budget - the board have done a magnificent job at doing this over the years. I just feel that there have been key moments when they have handled things badly over the years. This summer will see the proper start of Butcher's rebuilding and he needs to be backed properly.

As we all agree we need to remain within a set budget - the long-term survival of the club is paramount. My concern is the impact that yesterday's result, in combination with the other things mentioned that I feel have flattered our finances over the last couple of years will have on that budget, bearing in mind the amount of dealings that imo need to be done.

The fact that we are a bigger club than ICT also brings with it an extra expectation. The poisonous atmosphere at ER when things aren't going our way will attest to this. Butcher will not have faced this at ICT.

More than anything I'm sick of the constant turnover of managers, I feel we have a decent one now who could do well given time and resources. I'm concerned that that may not happen.

Keith_M
09-02-2014, 11:32 AM
I'd hoped that the 'Butcher Effect' would last a bit longer, and I'm as annoyed and disappointed as anybody about yesterday's game, but I still think we have the best management team we could get for the long run.

Of course Butcher has to take his share of the blame for the bad results but he's now trying to fit a previous manager's pick of players into his preferred system. On the whole, it doesn't seem to be working and I'm sure he can see that. I've no doubts whatsoever that he'll bring in players in the summer transfer window that actually can play to his system. It really is a case of 'it's my way or the highway'.

Hibercelona
09-02-2014, 11:37 AM
I can assure you all that I am a Hibs fan.

I wouldn't normally describe myself as a bam but going out the Scottish Cup tends to bring the worst out in me.

My concern is really the difficulty of the task that Butcher faces. I accept that we need to keep within budget - the board have done a magnificent job at doing this over the years. I just feel that there have been key moments when they have handled things badly over the years. This summer will see the proper start of Butcher's rebuilding and he needs to be backed properly.

As we all agree we need to remain within a set budget - the long-term survival of the club is paramount. My concern is the impact that yesterday's result, in combination with the other things mentioned that I feel have flattered our finances over the last couple of years will have on that budget, bearing in mind the amount of dealings that imo need to be done.

The fact that we are a bigger club than ICT also brings with it an extra expectation. The poisonous atmosphere at ER when things aren't going our way will attest to this. Butcher will not have faced this at ICT.

More than anything I'm sick of the constant turnover of managers, I feel we have a decent one now who could do well given time and resources. I'm concerned that that may not happen.

Agree entirely.

The board have made some shocking errors of judgement in the past regarding managerial appointments and the way they have been dealt with, which has undoubtedly led to a lack of belief in the boards ability to get it right.

I believe that they've finally got the right men in. But I can also understand why others may still have doubts in their mind, considering our recent track record of appointments and the nature in which a couple of them left.

Faith needs to be reinstilled into the fanbase, there's no instant fix to the problem.

It's going to require "time" and "stability". And yes, I know we've heard it all before, but the difference this time is that we have a strong managerial team in place who will succeed if we're willing to back them.

No longer do we have a "nice guy" or a guy who simply didn't want to be here in the first place. We have somebody with a tough mind set, who wants to be here and wants to see it through to the very end.

So lets do the only sane thing we can do and get right behind them.

EskbankHibee
09-02-2014, 11:38 AM
.net is a forum for opinions. And if you can't criticise your team after that yesterday then you never can.

As far as I can see, Butcher seems to be popular for his PR job and not a lot else. For me, I cannot understand this. Does he really talk a good game? It annoyed me when he said he sympathised with Hearts. It annoyed me when he didn't know Sunshine on Leith was the clubs anthem and it annoys me that he thinks he's a tactical genius because he tells the players to shoot and cross.

Yesterday he complained about Raith controlling the midfield. It's been said already, I know, but Thomson not even on the bench? Please tell me he was injured! He's allowed Taiwo back in why not our best player?

As for what went on the park, our tactics ARE eye bleeding to watch. There is no two ways about it. Nelson's long balls to no one in particular is torture.

I was there yesterday, never abused and never booed. And I'm sure I will get called a yam for this post. But IMO Petrie has had another howler bringing in TB. He's not a manager and he's proved that over the years.

Heisenberg
09-02-2014, 11:40 AM
Aye only a complete diddy could turn Inverness from relegation strugglers to competing for European places eh? He's the man and deserves time to prove it.

MrSmith
09-02-2014, 11:45 AM
.net is a forum for opinions. And if you can't criticise your team after that yesterday then you never can.

As far as I can see, Butcher seems to be popular for his PR job and not a lot else. For me, I cannot understand this. Does he really talk a good game? It annoyed me when he said he sympathised with Hearts. It annoyed me when he didn't know Sunshine on Leith was the clubs anthem and it annoys me that he thinks he's a tactical genius because he tells the players to shoot and cross.

Yesterday he complained about Raith controlling the midfield. It's been said already, I know, but Thomson not even on the bench? Please tell me he was injured! He's allowed Taiwo back in why not our best player?

As for what went on the park, our tactics ARE eye bleeding to watch. There is no two ways about it. Nelson's long balls to no one in particular is torture.

I was there yesterday, never abused and never booed. And I'm sure I will get called a yam for this post. But IMO Petrie has had another howler bringing in TB. He's not a manager and he's proved that over the years.

Yam!

Sorry I'm being facetious! :na na: You make some good points but as most have said, its the same players with the same attitude who let us down last season and now! Hopefully KT will return and like you, I hope its not anything other than a fitness thing.

Butcher isn't a howler though, he's clearly and by a country mile, the best appointment in years and the right man for the job! Patience my good man, I'm already looking forward to next season!! :)

EskbankHibee
09-02-2014, 11:55 AM
Does anyone remember Butchers Motherwell teams? They'd come to ER and kick lumps out of us. They had the worst disciplinary record in the league. His tactics are out dated.

Hibercelona
09-02-2014, 11:57 AM
.net is a forum for opinions. And if you can't criticise your team after that yesterday then you never can.

Nobody is absolving the team of criticism for that display. We know yesterday was poor, it was there for all to see. But this knee jerk "Butcher out" attitude has been all too familiar over the last several years.


As far as I can see, Butcher seems to be popular for his PR job and not a lot else. For me, I cannot understand this. Does he really talk a good game? It annoyed me when he said he sympathised with Hearts. It annoyed me when he didn't know Sunshine on Leith was the clubs anthem and it annoys me that he thinks he's a tactical genius because he tells the players to shoot and cross.

You talk about having an opinion, well that's Terry Butchers opinion. He's entitled to have one, just like anybody else.

As for not knowing the club anthem, so what? His focus wasn't on this club until he came here, so he had no reason to look into it.

As for thinking he's a tactical genius because he tells players to shoot and cross, we've had recent managers who obviously weren't genius enough themselves to figure this out.


Yesterday he complained about Raith controlling the midfield. It's been said already, I know, but Thomson not even on the bench? Please tell me he was injured! He's allowed Taiwo back in why not our best player?

Thomson isn't being overlooked for no reason. There's no logical reason to think that he is. Clearly there are issues that are preventing him from getting into the main squad. Unless these issues are resolved, he won't be making another appearance.


As for what went on the park, our tactics ARE eye bleeding to watch. There is no two ways about it. Nelson's long balls to no one in particular is torture.

You think Butcher and Malpas send the players out with the instruction to launch the ball as high up in the air as they possibly can?

Clearly things went badly wrong yesterday. But this can happen to any club on any given day at any level. Just look at Arsenals performance against Liverpool. I doubt Wenger told his players to switch off defensively whenever Liverpool had the ball, but it still happened anyway, because sometimes these things happen in football.


I was there yesterday, never abused and never booed. And I'm sure I will get called a yam for this post. But IMO Petrie has had another howler bringing in TB. He's not a manager and he's proved that over the years.

He's proved in recent times that he can take a team on a tight string budget and get them up to 2nd/3rd place in the SPFL. How? By identfying talents from lower divisions who he knows will make the grade.

Onion
09-02-2014, 11:58 AM
I can assure you all that I am a Hibs fan.

I wouldn't normally describe myself as a bam but going out the Scottish Cup tends to bring the worst out in me.

My concern is really the difficulty of the task that Butcher faces. I accept that we need to keep within budget - the board have done a magnificent job at doing this over the years. I just feel that there have been key moments when they have handled things badly over the years. This summer will see the proper start of Butcher's rebuilding and he needs to be backed properly.

As we all agree we need to remain within a set budget - the long-term survival of the club is paramount. My concern is the impact that yesterday's result, in combination with the other things mentioned that I feel have flattered our finances over the last couple of years will have on that budget, bearing in mind the amount of dealings that imo need to be done.

The fact that we are a bigger club than ICT also brings with it an extra expectation. The poisonous atmosphere at ER when things aren't going our way will attest to this. Butcher will not have faced this at ICT.

More than anything I'm sick of the constant turnover of managers, I feel we have a decent one now who could do well given time and resources. I'm concerned that that may not happen.

Excellent post. IMO if Butcher and his team fail then the game is well and truly up for Hibs, this Hibs Board and maybe even STF. This is last chance saloon for Petrie who really has no choice but to back TB with everything at his disposal.

Hibercelona
09-02-2014, 12:00 PM
Does anyone remember Butchers Motherwell teams? They'd come to ER and kick lumps out of us. They had the worst disciplinary record in the league. His tactics are out dated.

If you haven't noticed, almost every team comes to Easter Road and kicks lumps out of us, and it works!

If Butcher can get us winning games by kicking lumps out of the opposition instead, then so be it. I'd be delighted.

1875STEVE
09-02-2014, 12:03 PM
I honestly think that anyone with a post count of less than 1,000 should not post on the weekend of a defeat. And even then maybe only with the permission of any two admins.

I've read some pish in my time but that's a beauty.

Can I please also post after 10pm?

EskbankHibee
09-02-2014, 12:06 PM
I've read some white in my time but that's a beauty.

Can I please also post after 10pm?

Well said!

The sad acts on here have one opinion and if you disagree well, you must be a yam

EskbankHibee
09-02-2014, 12:07 PM
If you haven't noticed, almost every team comes to Easter Road and kicks lumps out of us, and it works!

If Butcher can get us winning games by kicking lumps out of the opposition instead, then so be it. I'd be delighted.

Can we please please please try and play football.

Hibercelona
09-02-2014, 12:11 PM
Can we please please please try and play football.

If kicking lumps out of the opposition can help us string a few wins together, that will build player confidence and fan confidence, which will then lead on to better performances.

We need to start somewhere. And if kicking lumps out of the opposition is the place to start, then so be it.

I recall Inverness being a lump kicking side in Butchers early days there and it did them no harm at all in the long run.

We need to build performances around results. That means starting off by getting results first and foremost.

One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 12:15 PM
I've read some pish in my time but that's a beauty.

Can I please also post after 10pm?

I don't know, can you?

Jones28
09-02-2014, 12:16 PM
Does anyone remember Butchers Motherwell teams? They'd come to ER and kick lumps out of us. They had the worst disciplinary record in the league. His tactics are out dated.

Anyone remember Butchers Inverness team playing us off the park on several occasions? Finishing in the top 6? Getting to the league cup final? Pulling out some absolute top drawer signings? Being praised by evruone for their attractive style and fast paced, attacking football?

FFS, give the guy a chance. That has been the biggest problem with us, the complete lack of stability.

Phil D. Rolls
09-02-2014, 12:16 PM
Excellent post. IMO if Butcher and his team fail then the game is well and truly up for Hibs, this Hibs Board and maybe even STF. This is last chance saloon for Petrie who really has no choice but to back TB with everything at his disposal.

Heard it a hundred times before, invariably after a bad result. Maybe a bit of perspective would help - like a look at our trophies and titles won since 1875.

Most importantly, look at the gaps in between them, and tell me the game hasn't been up on many previous occasions. Yet here we still are.

One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 12:16 PM
Well said!

The sad acts on here have one opinion and if you disagree well, you must be a yam

You certainly express a lot of Yam like opinions.

EskbankHibee
09-02-2014, 12:18 PM
If kicking lumps out of the opposition can help us string a few wins together, that will build player confidence and fan confidence, which will then lead on to better performances.

We need to start somewhere. And if kicking lumps out of the opposition is the place to start, then so be it.

I recall Inverness being a lump kicking side in Butchers early days there and it did them no harm at all in the long run.

We need to build performances around results. That means starting off by getting results first and foremost.

What you are suggesting though is that effort is lacking. That's not the case. Butcher has got them fired up and flying into tackles but the football side of things is wrong. Hopeful long balls can only take you so far

1875STEVE
09-02-2014, 12:19 PM
.net is a forum for opinions. And if you can't criticise your team after that yesterday then you never can.

As far as I can see, Butcher seems to be popular for his PR job and not a lot else. For me, I cannot understand this. Does he really talk a good game? It annoyed me when he said he sympathised with Hearts. It annoyed me when he didn't know Sunshine on Leith was the clubs anthem and it annoys me that he thinks he's a tactical genius because he tells the players to shoot and cross.

Yesterday he complained about Raith controlling the midfield. It's been said already, I know, but Thomson not even on the bench? Please tell me he was injured! He's allowed Taiwo back in why not our best player?

As for what went on the park, our tactics ARE eye bleeding to watch. There is no two ways about it. Nelson's long balls to no one in particular is torture.

I was there yesterday, never abused and never booed. And I'm sure I will get called a yam for this post. But IMO Petrie has had another howler bringing in TB. He's not a manager and he's proved that over the years.

It was in the papers this week, in the interviews with KT and then the follow ups with tb, that Thomson has been injured for the last 5 or 6 weeks, and was again at the weekend.

Re butcher, I have to disagree, he built very good sides at Well and even better at ict, on shoestring budgets.

Is 12 weeks really how long we are giving managers now? Deary me.

Butcher has a big job on his hands, and if anyone thinks its going to be a quick fix are quite frankly deluded.

Hibercelona
09-02-2014, 12:20 PM
What you are suggesting though is that effort is lacking. That's not the case. Butcher has got them fired up and flying into tackles but the football side of things is wrong. Hopeful long balls can only take you so far

I'm not saying we should play a hopeful long ball game, that's not what i'm saying at all.

And i'm quite sure Butcher doesn't send them out with the intentions of doing this either.

1875STEVE
09-02-2014, 12:24 PM
Well said!

The sad acts on here have one opinion and if you disagree well, you must be a yam

Nothing wrong with disagreements, that's what a message boards all about, opinions.

If everyone had the same ideas it would be a bit boring. :cb

Borderhibbie76
09-02-2014, 12:25 PM
Some on here are so predictable. ..12 weeks in and its all the managers fault!! Im hurting just as much as next hibee after yest and I agree it was abysmal but TB and MM will turn this around....I 100% believe this but give them time...not 3 months?? Fenlon left our squad in a shambles, overloaded with defensive midfielders and 1 Jan window was never gonna solve this!!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

EskbankHibee
09-02-2014, 12:28 PM
Some on here are so predictable. ..12 weeks in and its all the managers fault!! Im hurting just as much as next hibee after yest and I agree it was abysmal but TB and MM will turn this around....I 100% believe this but give them time...not 3 months?? Fenlon left our squad in a shambles, overloaded with defensive midfielders and 1 Jan window was never gonna solve this!!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

It is the managers fault. But more than that it's Petrie's fault. He should never be allowed to appoint a new manager again. He's had one success story in Mowbray an he should have moved mountains to bring him back this time around

Borderhibbie76
09-02-2014, 12:32 PM
Yeah coz Mowbray was such a success at the smellies, boro and west brom wasn't he...wonder how he would have coped at Hibs this time around without inheriting a "golden generation"???

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Phil D. Rolls
09-02-2014, 12:40 PM
It is the managers fault. But more than that it's Petrie's fault. He should never be allowed to appoint a new manager again. He's had one success story in Mowbray an he should have moved mountains to bring him back this time around

Did he even try? And how would Mowbray have done any better, taking on some of the duds we have mid season.

I am quite impressed by the players Butcher had brought. Maybe that shows what we can expect in future, rather than what happened yesterday?

One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 12:43 PM
It is the managers fault. But more than that it's Petrie's fault. He should never be allowed to appoint a new manager again. He's had one success story in Mowbray an he should have moved mountains to bring him back this time around

For the love of God. You are either an excellent troll or a Yam.

Hibernia Na Eir
09-02-2014, 12:50 PM
Hibs could sign quality players and they'd still, somehow, become crap overnight. Why is that?!

chrisski33
09-02-2014, 12:54 PM
1. Has been in charge for just 12 weeks
2. Has had one transfer window in which he explicitly said he wasn't going to rush to buy players because he wanted to wait until the summer to get the right players long term.
3. Is playing a hand dealt to him by Fenlon in terms of his squad.
4. Has the task of turning around a long term weak mentality at the club and that will take a lot of time.
5. Is not responsible for the abjectly 5hite performance of previous managers and players which we carry around on our shoulders like a giant monkey on our backs.
6. Deserves some time, loyalty and trust from the support in order to get us to the style of football and the improvement we want to see.
7. Will face bad days like today again many more times before we get to a place where we can be happy.
8. Is a golden opportunity, because of his reputation and connections, for us to attract players we would otherwise struggle to know about and bring to the club.
9. Has not tried to dress up poor performances and has shown in bringing in Watmore that he knows what we need.
10. Should not be undermined by fans, Board or anyone else in respect of KT or any other player. He is the manager, he is in charge and if any player can't handle that then the player can **** off as far as I'm concerned. We should never be willing to do anything that encourages players to think they are running the club - that ends up in players going to Petrie behind the manager's back and/or the George Street mentality that has flecked us up in the past.
11. Any Yams reading this or posting on here today - and there have been plenty of you stirring the pot - enjoy your many years in the destitute wilderness.
Best post on this site in a long time mate! Amazing how many bed wetters have appeared on other threads who never appear when times are good. Butcher has to be judged nxt season not this season

Eyrie
09-02-2014, 01:15 PM
I honestly think that anyone with a post count of less than 1,000 should not post on the weekend of a defeat. And even then maybe only with the permission of any two admins.

To be fair, the low post counts are usually because they never post unless it's in the aftermath of our latest "worst ever" defeat.

I tend to skip over those posts because they're predictable in their outrage and lack of valid insight and suggestions. I've been a Hibs fan for too long to get despondent over bad results - my own life goes on regardless and there's always next Saturday to look forward to.

Aldo
09-02-2014, 01:26 PM
Hibs could sign quality players and they'd still, somehow, become crap overnight. Why is that?!

Cos it's Hibs!! Simple as that. ;-)

bigwheel
09-02-2014, 01:38 PM
I was thinking before the game it was a potential turning point of fans opinion. If we won, Butcher momentum back on track, if we lost, the end is nigh. The fact is neither scenarios are true. Butcher is in the process of changing the team and system, it won't be until about 10 games into next season that we will see if it is really starting to take shape. Until then, the best we can hope for is signs of progress. Better defending, more chances created and more regular goals. Without doubt , it will be up and down before then..some steps forward and a few back.

The most worrying thing for me yesterday was that we were pretty solidly outplayed. Raith's passing, movement and game play were better than us. Usually, when we get put out from those below us it feels a bit of a smash and grab, but there was not time during yesterday that it felt that we were taking control of the match. That will have taken Butcher by surprise, and he and his team will have to get their head around what to do. It might signify quicker (and more) changes to the starting 11 than he anticipated.

Chibs
09-02-2014, 03:48 PM
I honestly think that anyone with a post count of less than 1,000 should not post on the weekend of a defeat. And even then maybe only with the permission of any two admins.
You really need to change your user name to Adolph or Gestapo.
My most sincere apologies for posting this as I have no where near the required post's.l

IMHO Terry Butcher is the real deal and once he gets his own team together we will see
some of the best times ever.

as for the sc@m their inevitable death cannot come quickly enough

One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 06:53 PM
You really need to change your user name to Adolph or Gestapo.
My most sincere apologies for posting this as I have no where near the required post's.l

IMHO Terry Butcher is the real deal and once he gets his own team together we will see
some of the best times ever.

as for the sc@m their inevitable death cannot come quickly enough


Thats a bit old hat. Saddam maybe or Kim Il.

Anyway, surely it was Adolf?

frazeHFC
09-02-2014, 08:27 PM
He said himself it's hard to get quality players in January. I'd much rather we got through this season and built over the summer than sign crap journeymen in January that we are stuck with next season.

Players are not stepping up to the plate but I've (for once in a manager) got faith he will turn us around for next season. The rest of this season is going to be boring with not much to play for I have to admit (hope I'm wrong) but confident that we will improve under Butcher.

Jonnyboy
09-02-2014, 08:56 PM
Trust me, I'd love to be proved wrong on this.

If we have anything like an acceptable squad turn up for the first day of pre-season training next year then I may just get the feeling that it will be different. Even a couple of pre-contracts confirmed early would suggest that we mean business.

The longer the summer goes on without serious transfer activity and the more likely that Butcher is going to get his squad completed and fit about 6 weeks into the league season, the more pissed off he'll get. At least we don't have a European game in mid-July to have to be remotely ready for this year.

Decent managers with their reputations at stake don't hang around - see JC for that.

In what way is JC a decent manager? Yes he took us to that cup win but then threw his toys oot the pram and disappeared into oblivion

The Voice Of Reason
09-02-2014, 09:00 PM
In what was is JC a decent manager? Yes he took us to that cup win but then threw his toys oot the pram and disappeared into oblivion

Aye - and instead of top teams fighting over appointing him as their next manager...........he signs as a player for Gala Fairydean !!!!!!! :faf:

Smartie
09-02-2014, 09:14 PM
In what was is JC a decent manager? Yes he took us to that cup win but then threw his toys oot the pram and disappeared into oblivion

Fair point, maybe I was getting a bit carried away.

His team was the last team that I enjoyed watching though. In his year with us he won a cup and had us looking fitter than we've ever been since. I remember the 1-0 win at Ibrox to go top of the league and honestly thought we played as well as I have ever seen us play. Only 2 months or so later and he was gone. Yes our form under him tailed off towards the end but he jumped ship with his stock reasonably high. Admittedly he's done nothing of note since.

Mixu was told his budget was going to be reduced - did he jump or was he pushed?
Yogi emerged from a transfer window with only Riordan, Nish and Duffy as forwards and was sacked a month later. His choice to have only those players?
Fenlon went into the Malmo game brutally under-strength. We finally got a half-decent squad together by September but still with glaring deficiencies. His choice?

I'm just concerned that we face a massive re-building job and probably on a much-reduced budget. We have (imo) a very promising manager who needs time and backing from both the fans and the club. I just hope that he gets it because I'm not sure he'd be shy about walking away if he didn't.

Chibs
09-02-2014, 09:34 PM
Thats a bit old hat. Saddam maybe or Kim Il.

Anyway, surely it was Adolf?
:greengrin
Apologies
Too much alcohol and a severe lack of brain cells.