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Thecat23
08-02-2014, 04:58 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!

Golden Bear
08-02-2014, 04:59 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!

Well said TC

We may have to take a few steps back before we can leap forward.

SteveHFC
08-02-2014, 05:00 PM
Agreed mate :agree:

Billy Whizz
08-02-2014, 05:01 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!

So who's the dross then, that we need shot of?

Stevie Reid
08-02-2014, 05:01 PM
I'm backing him all the way as well, but he is still fully responsible for a disgraceful performance today.

I think he will be a good manager for us, but today is a sore one on many levels.

FitbaFolkKen
08-02-2014, 05:01 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!

Reality check? Why because they are unhappy losing games?

DAVE1875
08-02-2014, 05:02 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!

FINALLY, someone with some sense! Most people on here acting as if we've never been beaten by lower league opposition before

FitbaFolkKen
08-02-2014, 05:03 PM
FINALLY, someone with some sense! Most people on here acting as if we've never been beaten by lower league opposition before

It's happened before so that's okay then.

HibeeHendo
08-02-2014, 05:04 PM
It will definitely be interesting to see who out of Fenlon's dross he keeps and who he gets rid of.

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 05:04 PM
So who's the dross then, that we need shot of?

Nelson, Craig, Taiwo, Collins, Heffernan IMHO

I'm not too sure about Collins but his display today was woeful.

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 05:05 PM
Reality check? Why because they are unhappy losing games?

Reality check that they are wanting Butcher out already ffs.

No one is saying don't be unhappy stop putting words in his mouth.

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 05:06 PM
It's happened before so that's okay then.

That's exactly what he said

happiehibbie
08-02-2014, 05:07 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!


Happy clapper alert

No one has said to get rid of Butcher! you have a go at me re my comments. You must be happy with what you see which is cool I want better simple.

but am glad your happy about being beat I bet you support the no winners on sports days at school to EVERYONE a winner no losers :aok:

FitbaFolkKen
08-02-2014, 05:07 PM
Reality check that they are wanting Butcher out already ffs.

No one is saying don't be unhappy stop putting words in his mouth.

He said folk questioning Butcher already, I would suggest that if people are questioning him they are unhappy.

He hasn't mentioned anybody wanting him out so stop putting words in his mouth.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:07 PM
It's happened before so that's okay then.

It's not ok, but I didn't expect another final with the same duds as we've had for a while.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:08 PM
So who's the dross then, that we need shot of?

Craig, McGivern, Heff to start with.

FitbaFolkKen
08-02-2014, 05:09 PM
It's not ok, but I didn't expect another final with the same duds as we've had for a while.

Don't get me wrong I agree with your sentiment that Butcher will make us better long term but right now this is rubbish!

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 05:10 PM
Happy clapper alert

No one has said to get rid of Butcher! you have a go at me re my comments. You must be happy with what you see which is cool I want better simple.

but am glad your happy about being beat I bet you support the no winners on sports days at school to EVERYONE a winner no losers :aok:

No one has said to get rid of Butcher? Have you been reading this site with your eyes closed?

So because TC wants to give Butcher time he is a happy clapper? I remember when he was wanting Fenlon out he was called a doom and gloomer.

This site really is bizarre sometimes.

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 05:11 PM
Craig, McGivern, Heff to start with.

We've been missing Mcgivern in defence imho

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:11 PM
Happy clapper alert

No one has said to get rid of Butcher! you have a go at me re my comments. You must be happy with what you see which is cool I want better simple.

but am glad your happy about being beat I bet you support the no winners on sports days at school to EVERYONE a winner no losers :aok:

Don't confuse yourself. I'm not happy at losing never will be. But FFS your post on the other threat was ridiculous. We're still ***** so shouldn't expect a huge turn around. Folk on Butchers back after one transfer window is laughable.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:13 PM
We've been missing Mcgivern in defence imho

Last seasons McGivern yeah defo. Not this seasons. He's been off the pace sadly for me. I like the guy but on current form he won't be missed.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:14 PM
No one has said to get rid of Butcher? Have you been reading this site with your eyes closed?

So because TC wants to give Butcher time he is a happy clapper? I remember when he was wanting Fenlon out he was called a doom and gloomer.

This site really is bizarre sometimes.

From a doom and gloomer to a happy clapper :D

Couldn't make this up mate eh!

Stevie Reid
08-02-2014, 05:15 PM
Don't confuse yourself. I'm not happy at losing never will be. But FFS your post on the other threat was ridiculous. We're still ***** so shouldn't expect a huge turn around. Folk on Butchers back after one transfer window is laughable.

There has to be som middle ground, surely? I am behind Butcher but today was as bad if not worse than Fenlon's worst days. The high ball stuff was utterly appalling, as was his inability to change things to cope with a side that hadn't scored a goal this year.

Butcher is to blame for today, not Fenlon. I still have faith but today was a real scunner.

GreenCastle
08-02-2014, 05:15 PM
I'm no yam or bed wetter - but today was horrendous.

Fenlons players or not he needs to play to their strengths - the tactics or lack of today were non existent.

I think Butcher will turn us around but today was a complete horror show and this game will be remembered for a while.

Another transitional season - if we don't get into the top 6 season tickets will drop. Even if we get into the top 6 I can't see us getting any higher up.

Bleeds green
08-02-2014, 05:16 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!


Bang on....this forum is infested with undercover yams and folk who just love to moan at the earliest opportunity

happiehibbie
08-02-2014, 05:17 PM
Don't confuse yourself. I'm not happy at losing never will be. But FFS your post on the other threat was ridiculous. We're still ***** so shouldn't expect a huge turn around. Folk on Butchers back after one transfer window is laughable.


so are you happy with what you see !

where else do i get to vent my anger my WIFE does not give a hoot if hibs win or lose just moans at me for being in a bad mood

tactics are awful we got beat from a first division side and out played too

we need to agree to disagree

Mikey
08-02-2014, 05:19 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.





No point moaning about it if you don't tell us who they are.

Stevie Reid
08-02-2014, 05:20 PM
From a doom and gloomer to a happy clapper :D

Couldn't make this up mate eh!

The irony comes from you excusing the new manager despite things being the same as they were under the previous incumbent, that you chastised so regularly.

In another post you said that 'the usual suspects' were on here criticising after a defeat. You were one of those when Fenlon was in charge, for quite a while, IIRC.

Butcher needs time and he will get it, from me as much as anyone - just like I gave Fenlon plenty time. But today was inexcusable.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:20 PM
No point moaning about it if you don't tell us who they are.

Everyone bar me :D

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 05:20 PM
so are you happy with what you see !


Did he say that?

cabbageandribs1875
08-02-2014, 05:20 PM
No point moaning about it if you don't tell us who they are.


the ones who don't agree with him

Andy74
08-02-2014, 05:22 PM
It's not ok, but I didn't expect another final with the same duds as we've had for a while.

Are you not making a pretty good argument for Fenlon being a good manager then? Poor team you think but we've been in the last two of the finals and were in the top six.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:23 PM
The irony comes from you excusing the new manager despite things being the same as they were under the previous incumbent, that you chastised so regularly.

In another post you said that 'the usual suspects' were on here criticising after a defeat. You were one of those when Fenlon was in charge, for quite a while, IIRC.

Butcher needs time and he will get it, from me as much as anyone - just like I gave Fenlon plenty time. But today was inexcusable.

Fenlon got time when he inherited CC team rightly so. Butcher needs time after being left with this *****. Yes it Is Fenlons players. I was right about Fenlon was I not?? Butcher is a far better manager to start with. His training isn't part time to start with.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:25 PM
Are you not making a pretty good argument for Fenlon being a good manager then? Poor team you think but we've been in the last two of the finals and were in the top six.

Beat twice from the worst Hearts team in god knows how long. Worst European record in Scottish football. Andy what's the point in two finals when you don't turn up for them. And you say I'm not putting up a good argument?? Where is Pat now? Booted because he's *****.

Andy74
08-02-2014, 05:27 PM
Beat twice from the worst Hearts team in god knows how long. Worst European record in Scottish football. Andy what's the point in two finals when you don't turn up for them. And you say I'm not putting up a good argument?? Where is Pat now? Booted because he's *****.

You're just ranting now.

Stevie Reid
08-02-2014, 05:28 PM
Fenlon got time when he inherited CC team rightly so. Butcher needs time after being left with this *****. Yes it Is Fenlons players. I was right about Fenlon was I not?? Butcher is a far better manager to start with. His training isn't part time to start with.

I am happy give Butcher lots and lots of time and believe he will be a good manager for us. But whilst his stature in the game is far, far greater than Pat's, I'm not sure that you can unequivocally state that he is a better manager when looking at their respective records in context.

I do hope he goes on to become a much, much better Hibs manager than Pat though, and believe he can.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:28 PM
You're just ranting now.

Haha, because I posted the truth?

Pretty Boy
08-02-2014, 05:29 PM
I'm backing him all the way as well, but he is still fully responsible for a disgraceful performance today.

I think he will be a good manager for us, but today is a sore one on many levels.

This is where I am.

Cameron1875
08-02-2014, 05:29 PM
Agree with the OP. Absolutely scunnered by today and gutting that the season is over. Craig surely surely must be dropped and i was a little surprised that Robertson didn't come on.

Harris will be a good player but wasn't at the races today. Stanton and Watmore were bloody excellent though!

One thing Butcher did do wrong was bringing on Haynes for Collins. The lad looks absolutely humpty and offered the square root of F all.

Might need a drink tonight.

GreenLake
08-02-2014, 05:30 PM
I'm wondering what tactics Fenlon would have used against Raith. Ten men behind the ball and keep possession, hope we can score on the break with one of our two shots.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:31 PM
I am happy give Butcher lots and lots of time and believe he will be a good manager for us. But whilst his stature in the game is far, far greater than Pat's, I'm not sure that you can unequivocally state that he is a better manager when looking at their respective records in context.

I do hope he goes on to become a much, much better Hibs manager than Pat though, and believe he can.

There is a huge difference though in the LOI and Scottish football. Pat was a success over in a part time league. Think people forget that it was just that, part time.

Like yourself I do think Butcher will go on to be a very good manager for Hibs. This is a huge blow to the fans but one I would hope pushes Butcher for more success next year.

FitbaFolkKen
08-02-2014, 05:34 PM
Beat twice from the worst Hearts team in god knows how long. Worst European record in Scottish football. Andy what's the point in two finals when you don't turn up for them. And you say I'm not putting up a good argument?? Where is Pat now? Booted because he's *****.

Fenlons last 11 games won 5, drawn 3, and lost 3.

Butcher last 11 games won 3, drawn 3 and lost 5.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

GreenLake
08-02-2014, 05:36 PM
Agree with the OP. Absolutely scunnered by today and gutting that the season is over. Craig surely surely must be dropped and i was a little surprised that Robertson didn't come on.

Harris will be a good player but wasn't at the races today. Stanton and Watmore were bloody excellent though!

One thing Butcher did do wrong was bringing on Haynes for Collins. The lad looks absolutely humpty and offered the square root of F all.

Might need a drink tonight.

Can't see how you can judge a guy on one match. He looked a bit like a deer in headlights but might be different after a game or two.

GreenLake
08-02-2014, 05:38 PM
Fenlons last 11 games won 5, drawn 3, and lost 3.

Butcher last 11 games won 3, drawn 3 and lost 5.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

"Statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is suggestive, what they conceal is vital."

down-the-slope
08-02-2014, 05:40 PM
Some players seriously off the pace of the game and having the mother of off days and collectively not a team.

What concerned me most was the apparent total lack of a game plan (or perhaps the ability to execute it) Playing direct to a single isolated striker (regardless of him being poor today) when you have 2 wingers on the park seems odd in the extreme - wide players and no attempt to exploit this potential width most of the time.
Even after HT when you would think some changes / further instructions could be given - little altered including the shape (till late on when Heff came on)

We have gone backwards in a number of areas / positions recently, and Terry Like Pat before him will soon realise that the level of patience is much less than at previous clubs

Booth looked like he is learning the game better during his time at Raith and will be a good addition to the squad when he returns after the summer - the system Terry seems to favour needs quick full backs who will overlap.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:44 PM
Fenlons last 11 games won 5, drawn 3, and lost 3.

Butcher last 11 games won 3, drawn 3 and lost 5.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

Sorry I never knew it was based on last 11 games. Sack Butcher now!!!

What was the overall record of Pat??

Bob Box Fish
08-02-2014, 06:15 PM
Need to give butcher time. He has lots of good young lads at his disposal and is clearly building a team for the next two to four years- Harris, forster, stanton, handling etc. We need to be patient. This season is a write off bar the derbies now.

21.05.2016
08-02-2014, 06:19 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!

Agree with this 100%. Far too many knee jerk reactions on here tonight, it was only a few weeks ago we were all praising the team and on cloud 9 after the full house derby and yes, we are now back down to earth with a bump but christ some of the reactions are OTT.


GGTTH :flag:

Northernhibee
08-02-2014, 06:23 PM
For me to head down to a game, get a ticket, bite to eat down there and all the bits and pieces that come with going to a game it costs me around £70-80 overall for each game and I'm really ****ing bored of going to home games.

Aye, the team on the pitch isn't doing the greatest job just now but that's why they need encouragement, not grown men screaming, swearing and booing for any small mistake - shouts of "**** off back to Swindon" at Collins, "****ing clueless" at Butcher - it doesn't make for an enjoyable afternoon at all.

I can handle us losing games - it happens in football - and I think we've got the best manager in the league who given time will take us forward but the fickleness and downright lack of control of far too many in the stands makes it a properly unenjoyable afternoon. Staying with a friends and supposed to be having a few pints in Dundee tonight but come home in a totally ****ty mood, partially for the result but also for spending all that cash on sitting and listening to all that pish. If you cannae control yourself in public then you really need to get anger management.

Love going to away games when I can but losing the will to keep making the long journey down to put up with being sat near some fanny who cannae control themselves.

Honesty, I think if we'd been playing away from home we'd be in the next round of the cup at this point.

Hibernia&Alba
08-02-2014, 06:25 PM
He needs time. We can't possibly expect a guy to turn around in a couple of months a club that has been drifting aimlessly for years. We've been through more than enough managers and must give big Tel the room to make the changes he feels are needed. It's far too early to make a judgement. Let's not panic.

FitbaFolkKen
08-02-2014, 06:28 PM
Sorry I never knew it was based on last 11 games. Sack Butcher now!!!

What was the overall record of Pat??

Was just playing devils advocate as you were slating Pat, however.

Pat had a win % of 35.63%, Butcher has 30.70%.

I don't advocate getting rid of Butcher in the slightest but your appraisal of Fenlon is harsh to say the least.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 06:31 PM
Was just playing devils advocate as you were slating Pat, however.

Pat had a win % of 35.63%, Butcher has 30.70%.

I don't advocate getting rid of Butcher in the slightest but your appraisal of Fenlon is harsh to say the least.

How many games did Fenlon have though to get that ratio? Butcher has been in the door 5 mins and folk saying he's not good enough.

Today wasn't good enough, no doubt about that. When Pat came in we didn't expect him to turn it around right away because of what was left. Same with TB. I don't expect major change with this lot and after the summer once he's had a proper transfer window and pre season I think a few folk will find themselves eating humble pie

If not then it will be me, but I very much doubt it!!

Greenblood70
08-02-2014, 06:41 PM
How can you say your backing Butcher all the way on the one hand and then name the man he's made captain top of your list for getting rid of. Does that not call into question his judgement?

Definitely not a pop at you Tc23 (as I agree with you re Craig), just looking for clarification.

There is also a really boring tendency on this board for posters to brand any POV they disagree with as being 'yammish' or posted by an 'undercover yam'. It all seems a bit childish to me, use the report function if it bothers anyone that much.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Eternal Hibbie
08-02-2014, 07:08 PM
Agree with this 100%. Far too many knee jerk reactions on here tonight, it was only a few weeks ago we were all praising the team and on cloud 9 after the full house derby and yes, we are now back down to earth with a bump but christ some of the reactions are OTT.


GGTTH :flag:

C'mon, long suffering fans, naw, make that very long suffering fans are entitled to vent their feelings anyway they choose after that p**h this afternoon.

Surely you wouldn't expect anything else, it's a results driven business and once again our recent results have been abysmal.

Just how long is it now that we have been in the process of rebuilding a team ?

What effect will this latest humiliation have in terms of team confidence, our ability to change that team and supporters thinking "****** it" !







Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

neil7908
08-02-2014, 07:46 PM
Craig, McGivern, Heff to start with.

Craig was one of St Johnstones best players, a guy who scored an impressive amount of goals from midfield in the SPL. His signing was universally applauded by the fans (I literally cant think of any supporter I knew who had negative feelings about him joining) and now suddenly he's rubbish and were going to punt him?

I totally agree he has been very poor for us recently but if Butcher is allowed time and support (correctly) then why not Craig?

I agree that our squad isn't great and there are some particular areas where Fenlon has left us very short (no pace, no wide players, only 2 genuine fullbacks at the club when he left) but I think there are a core of reasonable players at ER that I would hope a good manager could improve.

Fergus52
08-02-2014, 07:50 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!

:top marks

mmmmhibby
08-02-2014, 07:51 PM
Craig, McGivern, Heff to start with.

Add Stevenson to that list.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 07:52 PM
Craig was one of St Johnstones best players, a guy who scored an impressive amount of goals from midfield in the SPL. His signing was universally applauded by the fans (I literally cant think of any supporter I knew who had negative feelings about him joining) and now suddenly he's rubbish and were going to punt him?

I totally agree he has been very poor for us recently but if Butcher is allowed time and support (correctly) then why not Craig?

I agree that our squad isn't great and there are some particular areas where Fenlon has left us very short (no pace, no wide players, only 2 genuine fullbacks at the club when he left) but I think there are a core of reasonable players at ER that I would hope a good manager could improve.

Like yourself I was happy we signed him. But because a player is good with one club doesn't mean he'll be good with the next. Look at Vine! I was happy with him as well to be honest.

Craig for some reason is hiding during games. A captain should want the ball and lead by example. If he does this then great we keep him. If he doesn't then if hope TB will find someone who will.

Fergus52
08-02-2014, 07:54 PM
Add Stevenson to that list.

good one

SouthamptonHibs
08-02-2014, 07:54 PM
We are brutal I hope Butcher keeps us up! Pat Fenlon is a ****er

mmmmhibby
08-02-2014, 07:55 PM
good one

Am so sorry for suggesting Lewis aint good enough for hibs, please accept my apologies.

21.05.2016
08-02-2014, 07:58 PM
C'mon, long suffering fans, naw, make that very long suffering fans are entitled to vent their feelings anyway they choose after that p**h this afternoon.

Surely you wouldn't expect anything else, it's a results driven business and once again our recent results have been abysmal.

Just how long is it now that we have been in the process of rebuilding a team ?

What effect will this latest humiliation have in terms of team confidence, our ability to change that team and supporters thinking "****** it" !


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Of course fans are entitled to vent their feelings. I myself am a long suffering hibs fan but lets look at recent times, we have just got a new manager, he has only had one window to bring in his own players and although recent results have been ***** he picked us up a bit from the hole we were in under Fenlon.

Give it a bit more time, I reckon Butcher is a good manager but he's not a miracle worker. Cup shocks happen, im disappointed but its not Armageddon.

Jonnyboy
08-02-2014, 08:02 PM
Agree with the OP. Absolutely scunnered by today and gutting that the season is over. Craig surely surely must be dropped and i was a little surprised that Robertson didn't come on.

Harris will be a good player but wasn't at the races today. Stanton and Watmore were bloody excellent though!

One thing Butcher did do wrong was bringing on Haynes for Collins. The lad looks absolutely humpty and offered the square root of F all.

Might need a drink tonight.

Are you seriously basing your judgement on 30 minutes of play? FWIW I noticed that on the first two occasions that Haynes had to deal with the infamous hoofed ball he did so by taking the ball in and finding a team mate. Something that JC never seems to do. I'm not blaming Collins or Haynes but the likes of Nelson who is guilty of hoofing at will

Eternal Hibbie
08-02-2014, 08:08 PM
Of course fans are entitled to vent their feelings. I myself am a long suffering hibs fan but lets look at recent times, we have just got a new manager, he has only had one window to bring in his own players and although recent results have been ***** he picked us up a bit from the hole we were in under Fenlon.

Give it a bit more time, I reckon Butcher is a good manager but he's not a miracle worker. Cup shocks happen, im disappointed but its not Armageddon.

More than happy with the appointment of TB, these type of results happen far too often though and today was just another in a very long line of terrible results in this cup competition, I totally understand the frustration of the supporters tonight.


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

One Day Soon
08-02-2014, 08:12 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!


This completely.

Oh and to all the undercover Yams on here tonight - away and ****** yourselves.

hibsbollah
08-02-2014, 08:25 PM
I had vowed not to come on here after todays debacle, but in the spirit of self flagellation I thought id see what the undercover yams were saying and whether andy74 was crowing about Fenlon having been the answer all the time.

Its all as predictable as a Alex Salmond soundbite.

Northernhibee
08-02-2014, 08:35 PM
I had vowed not to come on here after todays debacle, but in the spirit of self flagellation I thought id see what the undercover yams were saying and whether andy74 was crowing about Fenlon having been the answer all the time.

Its all as predictable as a Alex Salmond soundbite.

It's all gone pear shaped since you stopped doing your weather forecasts. :greengrin

MinceAndTatties
08-02-2014, 08:43 PM
Some players seriously off the pace of the game and having the mother of off days and collectively not a team.

What concerned me most was the apparent total lack of a game plan (or perhaps the ability to execute it) Playing direct to a single isolated striker (regardless of him being poor today) when you have 2 wingers on the park seems odd in the extreme - wide players and no attempt to exploit this potential width most of the time.
Even after HT when you would think some changes / further instructions could be given - little altered including the shape (till late on when Heff came on)

We have gone backwards in a number of areas / positions recently, and Terry Like Pat before him will soon realise that the level of patience is much less than at previous clubs

Booth looked like he is learning the game better during his time at Raith and will be a good addition to the squad when he returns after the summer - the system Terry seems to favour needs quick full backs who will overlap.

Good post. I thought we had stumbled on a new system which worked in the 2nd half against Celtic (looked like a 4-2-3-1) but we seemed to not get Harris Stanton and later Whatmore into the game against Raith who forced us to play long to Collins. Not sure if taking off Taiwo was right move. He does get the ball back better than the others. Raith seemed even more in control of midfield afterwards. I felt the crowd did not help the players second half. Any misplaced pass drew howls of anger. Confidence seemed to drain away. Although it is the same for both teams, I'm embarassed that the pitch is so poor compared to others including Tynecastle.

Speedway
08-02-2014, 08:43 PM
As broken record-ish as I am with this, the Butcher Honeymoon Bubble burst at Tannadice when our fragile new confidence was pinned back in the last few mins. We haven't won since.

Northernhibee
08-02-2014, 08:45 PM
As broken record-ish as I am with this, the Butcher Honeymoon Bubble burst at Tannadice when our fragile new confidence was pinned back in the last few mins. We haven't won since.

I don't think you're wrong on that one.

The Sea-gull
08-02-2014, 08:50 PM
The difference I find personally with my own thoughts on Butcher compared to all the other managers before him probably going back to Alex McLeish is that I believe in him and have few doubts that he will succeed given time and support. I'll back any Hibs manager until the point I feel they have had enough time and/or have reached rock bottom but there have been appointments I have not agreed with or had my doubts. Butcher's appointment I fully agreed with and fully believe in. He needs support from us as fans. He needs us to let him away with results like today until he has time to shape his squad tough as that is to take. However, that squad should not lose to Raith and play them 10 times we'd probably win 7 or 8 games. These things happen it football.

Crucially, he needs support from the board and for me he has not had that yet. I don't care what anyone says, Butcher is a manager and he will have wanted to sign players in Jan. The board should have pushed the boat out a bit for him to get a couple of quality, established players who Terry knew and who would have settled quickly in on permanent deals at the start of the window. Loans are fine but they tend to take too long to settle and don't have the same attitude as permanent deals.

I know the board don't want to put us in financial trouble but why not gamble for once? We never do it. Why not say, ok these players are costing us a wee bit more than we'd like but lets get them, lets get a cup run and lets get top 6.I have said many times that Fenlon's appointment was a mistake, I said it would be before he was appointed but I just want to talk about where we have gone wrong this season. For me, the board gave up on this season at the following points:-

1. Not sacking Fenlon after the Hearts game in August on the back of Malmo and the opening day defeat to Motherwell. A new man in at that point would have had three weeks of the transfer window to tinker with the squad.
2. Not backing Butcher enough in January; had signings been lined up for early January we may have picked up more than 1 point from a possible last month and may still be in the Scottish cup.

These decisions to me effectively say "it would be nice to get top 6 and/or a cup run but we ain't going the extra mile for it". Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate.

We're out the cup now, nowt we can do about. We might still make top 6 but I doubt it. Really depend how much today's result takes out of us as a club. We could finish in the play off spot but I think we will get away with it as it is unlikely Partick, Ross Co, St Mirren and Killie will all get good enough to finish above us. Sadly, I can see us finishing about 9th or 10th and losing the final derbies of the season.

So with a gloomy end to the season in sight, my thoughts are turning to the summer. My message to the board would be, for once, get all the players in early. Get them signed up so that the new squad are all ready to report pre-season training on the first day and hit the ground running. Push the boat ouit for a few top players, we don't need a big squad, quality is more important than quantity. Cut out the last minute panic signings.

Right now, I am finding the thought of going to another Hibs game this season hard. I'll likely be back though but there will be others who don't go again this season and if we don't start next season well, could be lost to us for years. As fans we have sunk a lot of money into the club in recent years with limited return. We have to keep it coming though for the rest of the season otherwise it could get worse before it gets better.

sleeping giant
08-02-2014, 08:52 PM
As broken record-ish as I am with this, the Butcher Honeymoon Bubble burst at Tannadice when our fragile new confidence was pinned back in the last few mins. We haven't won since.

Do you fancy him to sort it out Speeders ?

Blaster
08-02-2014, 08:56 PM
I too back butcher.

However right now i am pig sick. This was a fantastic opportunity to progress in the cup and with other results a semi final was very possible and better budget for next season.

Roll on next season and totally revamped squad

hibsbollah
08-02-2014, 09:00 PM
It's all gone pear shaped since you stopped doing your weather forecasts. :greengrin

Im thinking of making a comeback. Its easy these days, you say its going to be muddy, sunny, blustery and wet and you won't be far wrong :greengrin

Stevie Reid
08-02-2014, 09:08 PM
There is a huge difference though in the LOI and Scottish football. Pat was a success over in a part time league. Think people forget that it was just that, part time.

Like yourself I do think Butcher will go on to be a very good manager for Hibs. This is a huge blow to the fans but one I would hope pushes Butcher for more success next year.

That's why I did say that you had to look at their achievements in context - Pat achieved a lot in Ireland, whilst Terry has had a chequered managerial record to say the least. Crucially though, he has a good recent record in Scotland, and here's hoping that he can improve us to the extent he did ICT (after he got them back up).

I've said on here many times that people far too regularly class a manager as either 'good' or 'bad' whereas the vast majority of them enjoy success with some clubs, and have tough times elsewhere. Some guys are a good fit for certain clubs, whilst sometimes it just doesn't work at others.

I like Terry a lot, and he seems to be a good fit for us - but today is a big, early set back. Most worrying was his compete failure to do anything to stem the problems that Raith caused us from first minute to last. We need to recover quickly and try and get a top 6 challenge back on track, as we really need good ST renewals in order to bring in more quality.

The Fenlon arguments have been done to death, we are where we are and Terry is in charge now. He is to blame for today, not our last manager who left 3 months ago.

Jonnyboy
08-02-2014, 09:09 PM
That's why I did say that you had to look at their achievements in context - Pat achieved a lot in Ireland, whilst Terry has had a chequered managerial record to say the least. Crucially though, he has a good recent record in Scotland, and here's hoping that he can improve us to the extent he did ICT (after he got them back up).

I've said on here many times that people far too regularly class a manager as either 'good' or 'bad' whereas the vast majority of them enjoy success with some clubs, and have tough times elsewhere. Some guys are a good fit for certain clubs, whilst sometimes it just doesn't work at others.

I like Terry a lot, and he seems to be a good fit for us - but today is a big, early set back. Most worrying was his compete failure to do anything to stem the problems that Raith caused us from first minute to last. We need to recover quickly and try and get a top 6 challenge back on track, as we really need good ST renewals in order to bring in more quality.

The Fenlon arguments have been done to death, we are where we are and Terry is in charge now. He is to blame for today, not our last manager who left 3 months ago.

Top post Stevie :top marks

flash
08-02-2014, 09:10 PM
Am so sorry for suggesting Lewis aint good enough for hibs, please accept my apologies.

Don't apologise you are spot on.

The Sea-gull
08-02-2014, 09:21 PM
That's why I did say that you had to look at their achievements in context - Pat achieved a lot in Ireland, whilst Terry has had a chequered managerial record to say the least. Crucially though, he has a good recent record in Scotland, and here's hoping that he can improve us to the extent he did ICT (after he got them back up).

I've said on here many times that people far too regularly class a manager as either 'good' or 'bad' whereas the vast majority of them enjoy success with some clubs, and have tough times elsewhere. Some guys are a good fit for certain clubs, whilst sometimes it just doesn't work at others.

I like Terry a lot, and he seems to be a good fit for us - but today is a big, early set back. Most worrying was his compete failure to do anything to stem the problems that Raith caused us from first minute to last. We need to recover quickly and try and get a top 6 challenge back on track, as we really need good ST renewals in order to bring in more quality.

The Fenlon arguments have been done to death, we are where we are and Terry is in charge now. He is to blame for today, not our last manager who left 3 months ago.

Good post. Would say that while a bulk of the blame for today lies firmly with Terry as we should never lose games like that, I'm willing to cut him some slack as these things happen in football and he is still dealing largely with another manager's squad. I definitely think the board could have done a bit more to help Terry get some better options in during the January window rather than just a few loanees from the English lower and reserve leagues.

stevejordan
08-02-2014, 09:23 PM
i know what you are saying but it feels a bit like ground hog day right now for me anyway it does.

IberianHibernian
08-02-2014, 09:29 PM
The difference I find personally with my own thoughts on Butcher compared to all the other managers before him probably going back to Alex McLeish is that I believe in him and have few doubts that he will succeed given time and support. I'll back any Hibs manager until the point I feel they have had enough time and/or have reached rock bottom but there have been appointments I have not agreed with or had my doubts. Butcher's appointment I fully agreed with and fully believe in. He needs support from us as fans. He needs us to let him away with results like today until he has time to shape his squad tough as that is to take. However, that squad should not lose to Raith and play them 10 times we'd probably win 7 or 8 games. These things happen it football.

Crucially, he needs support from the board and for me he has not had that yet. I don't care what anyone says, Butcher is a manager and he will have wanted to sign players in Jan. The board should have pushed the boat out a bit for him to get a couple of quality, established players who Terry knew and who would have settled quickly in on permanent deals at the start of the window. Loans are fine but they tend to take too long to settle and don't have the same attitude as permanent deals.

I know the board don't want to put us in financial trouble but why not gamble for once? We never do it. Why not say, ok these players are costing us a wee bit more than we'd like but lets get them, lets get a cup run and lets get top 6.I have said many times that Fenlon's appointment was a mistake, I said it would be before he was appointed but I just want to talk about where we have gone wrong this season. For me, the board gave up on this season at the following points:-

1. Not sacking Fenlon after the Hearts game in August on the back of Malmo and the opening day defeat to Motherwell. A new man in at that point would have had three weeks of the transfer window to tinker with the squad.
2. Not backing Butcher enough in January; had signings been lined up for early January we may have picked up more than 1 point from a possible last month and may still be in the Scottish cup.

These decisions to me effectively say "it would be nice to get top 6 and/or a cup run but we ain't going the extra mile for it". Sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate.

We're out the cup now, nowt we can do about. We might still make top 6 but I doubt it. Really depend how much today's result takes out of us as a club. We could finish in the play off spot but I think we will get away with it as it is unlikely Partick, Ross Co, St Mirren and Killie will all get good enough to finish above us. Sadly, I can see us finishing about 9th or 10th and losing the final derbies of the season.

So with a gloomy end to the season in sight, my thoughts are turning to the summer. My message to the board would be, for once, get all the players in early. Get them signed up so that the new squad are all ready to report pre-season training on the first day and hit the ground running. Push the boat ouit for a few top players, we don't need a big squad, quality is more important than quantity. Cut out the last minute panic signings.

Right now, I am finding the thought of going to another Hibs game this season hard. I'll likely be back though but there will be others who don't go again this season and if we don't start next season well, could be lost to us for years. As fans we have sunk a lot of money into the club in recent years with limited return. We have to keep it coming though for the rest of the season otherwise it could get worse before it gets better.Interesting . Today`s result may have cost club a lot of money considering how much we made in last 2 SCs but suppose club doesn`t rely on cup success every year for financial success . It was a bad result though not that surprising since I don`t think there is that much difference between leagues in terms of quality of players and players confidence and motivation looks worse now than it was a few months ago . Agree with all the stuff about early signings etc but reality is that we can`t afford to sign players who`ll make a big difference so rely on having a coaching staff who`ll coach youngsters well and scouts who`ll sign players who will improve the team and be motivated . Would like to see Hibs look further afield than England for new players but doesn`t seem to be happening with current set up ( managerial and directors ) .
Lots of threads tonight because of cup defeat but league results have been bad too .

EastCalderHibby
08-02-2014, 10:08 PM
Was just playing devils advocate as you were slating Pat, however.

Pat had a win % of 35.63%, Butcher has 30.70%.

I don't advocate getting rid of Butcher in the slightest but your appraisal of Fenlon is harsh to say the least.

sorry but i dont give a toot about tb's % v pf's % as most teams are better/stronger than last season so % is not really
something you can use as a comparison not having a go at anyone just my take on that **** :tbgwa:
in terry I trust

EastCalderHibby
08-02-2014, 10:20 PM
Are you seriously basing your judgement on 30 minutes of play? FWIW I noticed that on the first two occasions that Haynes had to deal with the infamous hoofed ball he did so by taking the ball in and finding a team mate. Something that JC never seems to do. I'm not blaming Collins or Haynes but the likes of Nelson who is guilty of hoofing at will

that is all he does hoof it aimlessly to the only place in the park were nobody is even close to ( who's this will you speak of ) dont recall him gettin
a pass / hoof from nelson :wink:

Jonnyboy
08-02-2014, 10:35 PM
that is all he does hoof it aimlessly to the only place in the park were nobody is even close to ( who's this will you speak of ) dont recall him gettin
a pass / hoof from nelson :wink:

I assumed you were basing your thoughts on 30 minutes from Haynes and basically writing him off. If I'm wrong I apologise. If I'm right, you're wrong :wink:

EastCalderHibby
08-02-2014, 10:48 PM
I assumed you were basing your thoughts on 30 minutes from Haynes and basically writing him off. If I'm wrong I apologise. If I'm right, you're wrong :wink:

I'm not slating haynes i was talking about the lack of ability nelson has to pass the ball to someone in the same team
thought haynes did allright tbh

Jonnyboy
08-02-2014, 10:53 PM
I'm not slating haynes i was talking about the lack of ability nelson has to pass the ball to someone in the same team
thought haynes did allright tbh

:aok:

wick hibby
08-02-2014, 10:59 PM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!

100% agree

Hibernia&Alba
08-02-2014, 11:43 PM
I'm away to bed after Hibs' latest cup failure, hopefully not to be awakened by nightmares. Let's support the big man in what are very early days. He has a tough task ahead of him, and it will take time, which is the inevitable consequence of the need to replace managers regularly. Each new manager means another start from scratch. Fingers crossed the board have finally got it right this time, and that in coming months we'll see sure evidence of progress. His record at Motherwell and Inverness makes me hopeful, but there's a long journey ahead. In Tel I trust.

Sir David Gray
09-02-2014, 12:21 AM
Nelson, Craig, Taiwo, Collins, Heffernan IMHO

I'm not too sure about Collins but his display today was woeful.


Craig, McGivern, Heff to start with.

Quite surprised by people talking about getting rid of Heffernan.

SaulGoodman
09-02-2014, 12:28 AM
Quite surprised by people talking about getting rid of Heffernan.

Been very disappointed with him. No doubting he's a good striker but he's just not looked fit when he's played.

Booked4Being-Ugly
09-02-2014, 12:28 AM
Quite surprised by people talking about getting rid of Heffernan.I personally don't understand the love-in with Heffernan. He'll get us maybe 10 goals a season - we need more than that.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
09-02-2014, 12:37 AM
I personally don't understand the love-in with Heffernan. He'll get us maybe 10 goals a season - we need more than that.

I agree to an extent. I like Heffernan. Collins doesn't even look like a 10 goal a season striker.

Sir David Gray
09-02-2014, 12:57 AM
Been very disappointed with him. No doubting he's a good striker but he's just not looked fit when he's played.


I personally don't understand the love-in with Heffernan. He'll get us maybe 10 goals a season - we need more than that.

He scored 27 goals over two seasons (and 71 games) with Kilmarnock. That's not far away from being a ratio of a goal every two games.

He's struggled for game time under Butcher so far, which wasn't helped by him picking up an injury after 6 minutes in Butcher's first game in charge and was then out for over a month. However I'm sure he'll score goals for us.

He came on yesterday and nearly scored after only a few minutes on the park.

I think it would be madness to get rid of him.

HKhibby
09-02-2014, 03:03 AM
Bang on....this forum is infested with undercover yams and folk who just love to moan at the earliest opportunity

2nd that!...Bang on! might sound strange, but in a way glad we dont have to bother about the cup again this season!, let him concentrate on the league and if possible in the top 6!, the league is where the majority of the action happens throughout any season...cup runs are bonuses!...unless you win one of them!
I dont really think TB & MP have properly started yet with bringing in their own team or shaping their own team! yes the 3 loan signings are probably a start, and the boy Watmore more especially from what i read.

TB said this would probably take a while so be patient! yes totally agree, he has been left with one of the most lack luster hibs squads for years!...brought in by an actor of a manager from the LOI, and in the January transfer window everyone knows it is hard to get bargains or decent signings in this window unless you have a lot of money to splash around.

When you look at his record at Motherwell and ICT, it did not happen over night not even in the first few weeks or months, he seems to be a Manager that builds bit by bit, and when he has the team...well we all saw his ICT team, very impressive, Top 2/3 in the league, this is why i think he will do it at Hibs, but he needs time, especially with the lack of big money...and there is no way i would want or expect big money that we have not got thrown at TB to build a team out of nothing, this is from a supporter many thousands of miles away!

eggbamyasi
09-02-2014, 03:13 AM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!

Well said . And totally agree word for word .

Stevie Reid
09-02-2014, 03:51 AM
2nd that!...Bang on! might sound strange, but in a way glad we dont have to bother about the cup again this season!, let him concentrate on the league and if possible in the top 6!, the league is where the majority of the action happens throughout any season...cup runs are bonuses!...unless you win one of them!
I dont really think TB & MP have properly started yet with bringing in their own team or shaping their own team! yes the 3 loan signings are probably a start, and the boy Watmore more especially from what i read.

TB said this would probably take a while so be patient! yes totally agree, he has been left with one of the most lack luster hibs squads for years!...brought in by an actor of a manager from the LOI, and in the January transfer window everyone knows it is hard to get bargains or decent signings in this window unless you have a lot of money to splash around.

When you look at his record at Motherwell and ICT, it did not happen over night not even in the first few weeks or months, he seems to be a Manager that builds bit by bit, and when he has the team...well we all saw his ICT team, very impressive, Top 2/3 in the league, this is why i think he will do it at Hibs, but he needs time, especially with the lack of big money...and there is no way i would want or expect big money that we have not got thrown at TB to build a team out of nothing, this is from a supporter many thousands of miles away!

Come on. I share you're belief that Butcher will come good for us, and am prepared to be patient as is any other level headed Hibbie, but you're glad that we're out of the cup so we can concentrate on the league?! Seriously? There are only two trophies in Scotland that we have a chance of winning, and we've gone out of both at home to very poor opposition, both after Celtic had already gone out. We can't get into Europe and we have a battle to get top 6, but you'd rather that was our only focus other than stay in a competition that we haven't won in an age, and has several lower league teams in the quarter final? Insane.

I back Terry to the max, but our season ended today, and it was entirely his fault.

aunty joyce
09-02-2014, 04:15 AM
After a very poor result I've noticed the usual suspects out in force. The moaners and the undercover Jambos.

All I will say is I'm more confident going into the summer transfer window than any under the previous manager. Butcher will being some good players to ER. He's still got most of the dross left from Pats time. So when he clears it out and brings in his signings that's when we'll see Butchers team.

It took him a couple of years to build at ICT and I'm more than confident he will do it here. Cup upsets happen, they have happened to us more often than not but FFS folk questioning Butcher already need a serious reality check.

Onwards and upwards, MON THE HIBEES!!!

Agree with the above 100%

Gustavo Fring
09-02-2014, 11:30 AM
im behind butcher too , i believe he is the man that can take us forward