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View Full Version : Worse than under Fenlon



Ozyhibby
08-02-2014, 04:07 PM
You better believe we are. No progress at all.

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 04:09 PM
Out of that team 1 Butcher signing started and he was the only one to get pass marks from me. Give that one a think for a minute

Ozyhibby
08-02-2014, 04:12 PM
Out of that team 1 Butcher signing started and he was the only one to get pass marks from me. Give that one a think for a minute

I agree but I expected a new manager to get more, not less out if the players we have.

mmmmhibby
08-02-2014, 04:13 PM
Out of that team 1 Butcher signing started and he was the only one to get pass marks from me. Give that one a think for a minute

interesting. wield the axe tel, like the biggest axe in the world!!!

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 04:13 PM
I agree but I expected a new manager to get more, not less out if the players we have.

I think he's got the most out of them. They're just rotten.

Judas Iscariot
08-02-2014, 04:13 PM
Fenlon was plsh but we'd still be in the cup today under him

Swedish hibee
08-02-2014, 04:15 PM
Agree, Butcher has to be responsible for today. Shocking. Completely unacceptable to be beaten at home by a team like this.

Ozyhibby
08-02-2014, 04:16 PM
Decision to drop Thomson looking a shocker now. No way would he have conceded the midfield the way Craig and Taiwo did.

sixtwo
08-02-2014, 04:17 PM
Butcher is worrying me. Reminding me of Jim Duffy. I think he has made mistakes with Caldwell, thomson and Taiwo, albeit he seems go have realised his error with the latter.
He also persisted with Cummings for too long. All in all, I am far from convinced. Fenlon was dire but butcher is struggling to improve on that.

Greenblood70
08-02-2014, 04:18 PM
That was as bad as any of the unacceptable performances I've seen in a litany of ***** football over the past half dozen seasons. We are absolutely ***** make no mistake about it. Really ****ing murder. Hoof hoof hoof or expect the new lad Watmore to beat half the Raith team.

These players are just not good enough and have proven so again and again.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

NorthNorfolkHFC
08-02-2014, 04:18 PM
Butcher is worrying me. Reminding me of Jim Duffy. I think he has made mistakes with Caldwell, thomson and Taiwo, albeit he seems go have realised his error with the latter.
He also persisted with Cummings for too long. All in all, I am far from convinced. Fenlon was dire but butcher is struggling to improve on that.

Haha. Post cheered me up!


"Kommen sie bitte und listen to Kraftwerk!"

Del Boy
08-02-2014, 04:18 PM
Don't want to panic yet but after a bright start we've been stinking under Butcher.

tamig
08-02-2014, 04:19 PM
You better believe we are. No progress at all.

Nonsense.

Cropley10
08-02-2014, 04:19 PM
Hopefully James Collins won't play for us again. Can't win a header, can't hold the ball up. Doesn't link the play. Aye he works hard, except today. Like playing with 10 men and that's against a team in the League below.

OsloHibs
08-02-2014, 04:21 PM
We are worse than last year. We are out the cup.
And I know Ben Williams isn't happy and the whole Kevin saga, so TB and MM are loosing the players and this needs to be sorted.
Today is totally unacceptable.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
08-02-2014, 04:21 PM
I am embarrassed and hurting. We are pish.

Pretty Boy
08-02-2014, 04:22 PM
It certainly wasn't any better than what Fenlon was serving up.

Total and utter rubbish.

hibeeleicester
08-02-2014, 04:22 PM
Dont say i didnt tell you all....


Shot down when i suggested Butchers inability.

IberianHibernian
08-02-2014, 04:23 PM
You better believe we are. No progress at all.Agree and not just on evidence of today . Last 2 years we got to finals just because we could win games aganst stuffy teams from lower leagues or tight matches against Hearts and Aberdeen , now not even that . Only difference is that TB gets a very easy time from the media and any bad result is blamed on his predecessor . And the "wait till he gets his own team " argument would be laughed at in any other country - surely we got rid of PF ( who had turned early disasters aginst Malmo and Hearts into a 9-match unbeaten run ) and appointed TB without interviewing other candidates because his experience and knowledge of Scottish game would mean he`d get more out of the players ?

ColintonHibs
08-02-2014, 04:24 PM
We are worse than last year. We are out the cup.
And I know Ben Williams isn't happy and the whole Kevin saga, so TB and MM are loosing the players and this needs to be sorted.
Today is totally unacceptable.

Whats ben williams not happy about?

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 04:24 PM
Well I don't get it. We hound Fenlon out and now we're saying 'aww we're not any better'

Maybe if we stop hounding out every manager every time we get beat we won't have to suffer all these **** re-building seasons.

NorthNorfolkHFC
08-02-2014, 04:27 PM
Loads of problems today but Butcher has fallen into the Tom Taiwo trap.

On top of this Liam Craig is not good enough, far too slow and was second to every ball.

We missed Robertsons drive today.


"Kommen sie bitte und listen to Kraftwerk!"

Stevie Reid
08-02-2014, 04:27 PM
I'm far from writing Butcher off, but he is very much responsible for this latest disaster.

RIP Bestie
08-02-2014, 04:27 PM
Nonsense.
Explain where the progress is if it's nonsense

GreenLake
08-02-2014, 04:28 PM
You better believe we are. No progress at all.

Bollox

The Green Goblin
08-02-2014, 04:30 PM
As bad as today was, I'll still be holding off my burning torch until Butcher has been given one summer transfer window.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 04:33 PM
FFS, you lot saying we'd still be in if we had Fenlon. ****ing behave yourselves eh. Maybe we would maybe we wouldn't how do you know? Just because we got there twice in a row?

Also saying we're worse under Butcher than Fenlon is so far fetched it's borderline ****ing mental. Check the stats for shots at goal etc.. Compared to Butchers when he took over.

It's a pish result but the amount of Jambos on here today and bet wetters need to get a grip of themselves.

Ozyhibby
08-02-2014, 04:33 PM
Well I don't get it. We hound Fenlon out and now we're saying 'aww we're not any better'

Maybe if we stop hounding out every manager every time we get beat we won't have to suffer all these **** re-building seasons.

Fenlon was given plenty time. He was crap. Maybe if we had got rid of him when we should have we could have got McInnes, who appears not to need the amount of time our managers do.

Ozyhibby
08-02-2014, 04:35 PM
As bad as today was, I'll still be holding off my burning torch until Butcher has been given one summer transfer window.

Always waiting for next season.

Curly1875
08-02-2014, 04:36 PM
Loads of problems today but Butcher has fallen into the Tom Taiwo trap.

On top of this Liam Craig is not good enough, far too slow and was second to every ball.

We missed Robertsons drive today.


"Kommen sie bitte und listen to Kraftwerk!"

What exactly is the tom taiwo trap?

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 04:36 PM
McInnes, who appears not to need the amount of time our managers do.

McInnes who has signed how many players? Compared to Butcher who has brought it 3, who probably weren't even first picks.

Maybe we need to stop blaming managers and start looking higher up because as soon as we seem interested in good players that would improve the team we end up losing out.

cam2644
08-02-2014, 04:36 PM
Today was bad and a natural reaction of anger will set in but to start hounding yet another manager particularly after such a short time will get us no where. Give the man a chance and let him rebuild in the summer first. The famous soft belly in the team is still there but Tel is as good as you'll get to toughen them up.

SaulGoodman
08-02-2014, 04:37 PM
Always waiting for next season.

What are we meant to do? Sack him tonight?

Stop talking pish.

Cropley10
08-02-2014, 04:37 PM
So let me get this straight - because we didn't beat Raith Tel is rubbish. And he just got lucky at ICT?

NorthNorfolkHFC
08-02-2014, 04:38 PM
What exactly is the tom taiwo trap?

Thinking he's a good player. Absolutely terrible today! Second to every ball.




"Kommen sie bitte und listen to Kraftwerk!"

The_Horde
08-02-2014, 04:39 PM
You cannot win games without the ball. And we do not retain the ball. Ever! Liam Craig has to be the least talented hibs captain of all time. Terrible midfielder!

Kevin Thomson needs a game. 100%

Eternal Hibbie
08-02-2014, 04:42 PM
Everyone involved in this latest humiliation at Easter Road, players and management need to have a long hard look at themselves yet again, are we the worst supposedly "big club" in the country for continually putting our support through this kind of p**h or does it just feel like we are.

How much will today's result cost us ?

Honeymoon absolutely over - get it sorted Mr Butcher.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Andy74
08-02-2014, 04:46 PM
Well I don't get it. We hound Fenlon out and now we're saying 'aww we're not any better'

Maybe if we stop hounding out every manager every time we get beat we won't have to suffer all these **** re-building seasons.

That's been my argument.

The team has been ripped up mid season when we were still in a decent position. Our current set up and tactics is all on Butcher. Not good so far so we better hope his new team next year get us straight up into top 3 or 4.

Stevie Reid
08-02-2014, 04:47 PM
So let me get this straight - because we didn't beat Raith Tel is rubbish. And he just got lucky at ICT?

This thread is OTT but Raith caused us problems from the first minute today and Butcher did not one thing over 90 minutes to address it - he is rightly being criticised for that, and the awful high ball stuff.

Andy74
08-02-2014, 04:48 PM
FFS, you lot saying we'd still be in if we had Fenlon. ****ing behave yourselves eh. Maybe we would maybe we wouldn't how do you know? Just because we got there twice in a row?

Also saying we're worse under Butcher than Fenlon is so far fetched it's borderline ****ing mental. Check the stats for shots at goal etc.. Compared to Butchers when he took over.

It's a pish result but the amount of Jambos on here today and bet wetters need to get a grip of themselves.

Results are worse. Shots at goal don't get you points or into cup draws.

Talking about Butcher being totally to blame are nonsense but so is your type of suggestion that we are better. We are not.

Jones28
08-02-2014, 04:48 PM
Fenlon was plsh but we'd still be in the cup today under him

Guff

Butcher is responsible, but fenlon was a far worse manager and his tactical ineptitude would have lost that game too.

Onion
08-02-2014, 04:50 PM
Most of these players are the very same duds that played under Fenlon. Why would we think they might all of a sudden grow spines and become decent Hibs players ? Few of them can hack it at this level, with the expectations at ER and will all find their way down to smaller clubs with lower expectations.

The initial drive under TB/MM has evaporated and we're close to free-fall.

Cropley10
08-02-2014, 04:51 PM
That's been my argument.

The team has been ripped up mid season when we were still in a decent position. Our current set up and tactics is all on Butcher. Not good so far so we better hope his new team next year get us straight up into top 3 or 4.

You are such an attention seeker. You won't be happy til Butcher has gone.

The Voice Of Reason
08-02-2014, 04:52 PM
That's been my argument.

The team has been ripped up mud season when we were still in a decent position. Our current set up and tactics is all on Butcher. Not good so far so we better hope his new team next year get us straight up into top 3 or 4.

Andy - do you accept that Butcher is having to select FENLON'S players?

FENLON'S players are a bunch of slow, overpaid duds - losers.

A complete clearout of FENLON'S duds is required.

It's not difficult to understand likes............:rolleyes:

Onion
08-02-2014, 04:52 PM
Guff

Butcher is responsible, but fenlon was a far worse manager and his tactical ineptitude would have lost that game too.

No Fenlon fan but what you cannot question is Fenlon's record in the Scottish Cup which was a s good as any Hibs manager in the modern era.

GreenLake
08-02-2014, 04:53 PM
Hibs have had great teams beat in shocking cup results and probably will in future. How we played against Hearts in the last derby and in a few other games is enough to convince me Butcher can turn things around given more time.

GreenCastle
08-02-2014, 04:54 PM
Just back in and that was a complete disgrace.

Professional footballers ? I've seen players down at the local park play better football with a more comfortable 1st touch.

The tactics today - or lack or them was shocking.

We have some pretty average players but making them hump it long all day just doesn't work.

We need to keep the ball longer and control the game not send it forward and expect a flick on or lucky bounce.

Observations today -

Nelson - not the future - can head the ball and took goal well but in a 1v1 situation struggles and passing is shocking.

Stevenson - not a left back - not his fault he's stuck there but was a target for Raith the whole game.

Craig - not captain material - rarely influences a game.

Harris - needs to be on bench or played on the right.

Watmore - looks tricky

Collins - terrible today - hold the ball up!

Zoubir - just not good enough at this level.

Callum Booth - he shouldn't be allowed to play against us - should be at ER playing left back.

Ref - complete joke - over ruled assistant for the goal who had flag up for a while.

Pitch - needs sorted - any attempt to play football by our so called professionals just doesn't happen.

Another missed opportunity - beaten by a bunch of SPFL Hibs / rejects and most are part time.

Season over and simply not good enough.

MagicSwirlingShip
08-02-2014, 04:57 PM
Butcher got his tactics all wrong today. The winger Cardle had Forster on toast from the first minute and our management team done absolutely nothing to sort it.

Our Midfield consists of alot of huffing and puffing but not one of them has a clue how to effect the game positively when they win the ball. Stanton is our only man who can pick a pass and link play together but he was played too far forward and couldn't effect the game.

Very, very Poor.

GreenLake
08-02-2014, 04:58 PM
No Fenlon fan but what you cannot question is Fenlon's record in the Scottish Cup which was a s good as any Hibs manager in the modern era.

His strategy of going four down against Falkirk was quite brilliant and caught them completely off guard.

blackpoolhibs
08-02-2014, 05:02 PM
When butcher has brought in 30 players, and been given 4-5 transfer windows to work with, then we can judge whether its a poor team he's built.

This ***** football team is ALL FENLONS.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:06 PM
Results are worse. Shots at goal don't get you points or into cup draws.

Talking about Butcher being totally to blame are nonsense but so is your type of suggestion that we are better. We are not.

Our football isn't as bad as under him. I wouldn't expect you to agree as I've never seen anyone back a former manager in a way you have. Fenlon very rarely had the dressing room. His football was shocking.

If you are going back to stats as I know you like to favour them to your own agenda. Fenlon gave us a humiliating 1-5 0-7 Part time training and shocking players.

Butcher has been in the door 5 mins and you seem to think Fenlon is better.

GreenLake
08-02-2014, 05:08 PM
That's been my argument.

The team has been ripped up mid season when we were still in a decent position. Our current set up and tactics is all on Butcher. Not good so far so we better hope his new team next year get us straight up into top 3 or 4.

If you call losing twice to the sh***st hearts team in decades a decent position

The Voice Of Reason
08-02-2014, 05:08 PM
When butcher has brought in 30 players, and been given 4-5 transfer windows to work with, then we can judge whether its a poor team he's built.

This ***** football team is ALL FENLONS.

Exactly. It's not difficult to understand that TB is having to pick FENLON'S duds. :rolleyes:

FENLON'S duds are a bunch of slow, talentless overpaid losers.

As stated in another thread, God himself would struggle with this lot.

SeanWilson
08-02-2014, 05:09 PM
You better believe we are. No progress at all.

You will get shot down left right and centre but you are 100% correct. Today was a game that should have been light work but we just managed to labour a 3-2 loss.

Makaveli
08-02-2014, 05:18 PM
Aside from everything else he's backed the wrong horse with Craig, who shouldn't be anywhere near the team on current showings. Captain? FFS.

GreenLake
08-02-2014, 05:18 PM
You will get shot down left right and centre but you are 100% correct. Today was a game that should have been light work but we just managed to labour a 3-2 loss.

Todays game was shocking but it will take time to transform Fenlon's team into a winning team.

TowerHibs
08-02-2014, 05:19 PM
Butcher is worrying me. Reminding me of Jim Duffy. I think he has made mistakes with Caldwell, thomson and Taiwo, albeit he seems go have realised his error with the latter.
He also persisted with Cummings for too long. All in all, I am far from convinced. Fenlon was dire but butcher is struggling to improve on that.
Great post - nt too sure there us a single word of truth in it

tamig
08-02-2014, 05:21 PM
Explain where the progress is if it's nonsense

The op made the statement we are worse than under Paddy. Sure - today was a huge disappointment. However, in response to the op I'd say I saw more entertainment from Watmore alone today than I probably did in most of Paddy's games this season. Imo we're better to watch now - but today was poor.

Centre Hawf
08-02-2014, 05:26 PM
Totally uninspired so far under Butcher. Then again I wasn't overly pleased with his appointment anyway.

Ofcourse i expect to get shot down but it's my opinion.

Alfred E Newman
08-02-2014, 05:27 PM
It's certainly not worse but it's no better. It's just another form of hoofball to a poor centre forward that can't hold the ball up or win a header.

blackpoolhibs
08-02-2014, 05:31 PM
Totally uninspired so far under Butcher. Then again I wasn't overly pleased with his appointment anyway.

Ofcourse i expect to get shot down but it's my opinion.

How did you think we had done under Fenlon and Calderclown? Did you expect more than what we are seeing just because we'd appointed a new man?

I personally cant wait to see the back of most of this dross, because we are a bloody poor team, and thats the direct result of the last 2 managers making us a ****in shambles.

If i hear one more time just what a nice man Pat Fenlon was, i think i will scream. Nice man or not, he was a clown, and he followed another idiot.

I have no idea what the future holds, but i cant help but think it has to be better than those two imbeciles gave us.

weonlywon6-2
08-02-2014, 05:48 PM
just back in from the game and didnt expect that result.
even at two each didnt think we would lose.
we played with no midfield today , why we just didnt pass the ball more is beyond me.
raith were terrible and hadnt scored in 2014,bring on hibs and it all changes!!

OsloHibs
08-02-2014, 05:48 PM
We are worse than last season. My opinion and don't care how much other posters say otherwise.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:50 PM
How did you think we had done under Fenlon and Calderclown? Did you expect more than what we are seeing just because we'd appointed a new man?

I personally cant wait to see the back of most of this dross, because we are a bloody poor team, and thats the direct result of the last 2 managers making us a ****in shambles.

If i hear one more time just what a nice man Pat Fenlon was, i think i will scream. Nice man or not, he was a clown, and he followed another idiot.

I have no idea what the future holds, but i cant help but think it has to be better than those two imbeciles gave us.

This... By the way, apparently Pat was a "nice" guy. Just imagine if he was an arse?!!!!

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 05:51 PM
We are worse than last season. My opinion and don't care how much other posters say otherwise.

In what way? I see Hibs more attacking than anytime under Fenlon. I think we'll do well under Butcher as well.

OsloHibs
08-02-2014, 05:55 PM
In what way? I see Hibs more attacking than anytime under Fenlon. I think we'll do well under Butcher as well.

I really can't agree with anything in your post.
All I know is what I've seen in the past few games that I never seen in a Hibs team in a long time. But I do hope that the last part of your post will come true. I'm really not enjoying what I'm watching and it has to change.

Emerald
08-02-2014, 05:57 PM
just back in from the game and didnt expect that result.
even at two each didnt think we would lose.
we played with no midfield today , why we just didnt pass the ball more is beyond me.
raith were terrible and hadnt scored in 2014,bring on hibs and it all changes!!

You're right, we have so many midfield players at the club courtesy of Fenlon than I can remember but we never seem to have a midfield playing. Today we had more attacking players in midfield but kept losing the ball. Harris can't seem to get past a player anymore and Craig doesn't even look as if he should be in the team. Watmore was fantastic, his first touch is what every other Hibs player should aim for. Him and Stanton are the only bright lights for the rest of the season, based on todays showing anyway.

Carheenlea
08-02-2014, 05:58 PM
Hopefully James Collins won't play for us again. Can't win a header, can't hold the ball up. Doesn't link the play. Aye he works hard, except today. Like playing with 10 men and that's against a team in the League below.

I feel sorry for James Collins having to play the game under such trying conditions. It`s like playing with ten men in the sense that continually thumping high balls at him he would have been as well sitting in the stand. Horrific tactics.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 06:00 PM
I really can't agree with anything in your post.
All I know is what I've seen in the past few games that I never seen in a Hibs team in a long time. But I do hope that the last part of your post will come true. I'm really not enjoying what I'm watching and it has to change.

That's fair enough. Did you enjoy the football under Fenlon? Not being funny serious question. I thought the football under him was criminal.

weonlywon6-2
08-02-2014, 06:04 PM
if the game had been in kirkcaldy we may well have still been in the cup,we just cant do it at home

nic81
08-02-2014, 06:08 PM
We are worse than last year. We are out the cup.
And I know Ben Williams isn't happy and the whole Kevin saga, so TB and MM are loosing the players and this needs to be sorted.
Today is totally unacceptable.


Get them all tae f then, no respect, thats exactly what is wrong with hibs the pl,yer act like they are big time charlies when in reality most of the time they wouldn't even get a game with the maroon mob, no heart no fight no desire unless it suits them, punt them all and get his own players in, absolute disgrace

green day
08-02-2014, 06:14 PM
That's fair enough. Did you enjoy the football under Fenlon? Not being funny serious question. I thought the football under him was criminal.

100% correct.

This team is gash, but TB said during Jan window we would do almost no business - to be honest, I think he ( like most of us ) wrote off this season.

Do any of the "TB out" squad actually think we were making the cup final? Or winning it? Has anyone seen The Dandy Dons playing recently? They ( and one or two others ) would rip us a new one.

So, dry your eyes all those greeting about today, let's just crawl to the end of the season and see what happens - I suspect a humungous clearout myself.

Weir7
08-02-2014, 06:15 PM
When butcher has brought in 30 players, and been given 4-5 transfer windows to work with, then we can judge whether its a poor team he's built.

This ***** football team is ALL FENLONS.

That team was more than good enough to Beat Raith. But when yu don't have the ball and pass and move and smash it long you lose.

Butchers tactics. His fault.

Swedish hibee
08-02-2014, 06:16 PM
That's fair enough. Did you enjoy the football under Fenlon? Not being funny serious question. I thought the football under him was criminal.

I did yeah. Don't get me wrong- the Malmo game was completely crushing for me (my car mechanic is their biggest fan) and I thought Pat did the right thing after those shocking scenes outside ER after the Hearts game.

But this year we have let in so many goals lately and this worries me greatly. I'm not enjoying the football at all and haven't made any plans to fly over to ER this season.. and on todays show- this wont change.

Weir7
08-02-2014, 06:18 PM
Whats ben williams not happy about?

Poor coaching from the new goalie coach who is so fat he can gardly walk, farless take training.

And telling Ben's agent they are looking for a new keeper. Then a month later saying the want him to stay.

EVENTUALLY
08-02-2014, 06:18 PM
You're right, we have so many midfield players at the club courtesy of Fenlon than I can remember but we never seem to have a midfield playing. Today we had more attacking players in midfield but kept losing the ball. Harris can't seem to get past a player anymore and Craig doesn't even look as if he should be in the team. Watmore was fantastic, his first touch is what every other Hibs player should aim for. Him and Stanton are the only bright lights for the rest of the season, based on todays showing anyway.

There is not enough nous on the park. Everybody in the stands could see after 5 minutes that Watmore has massive potential to beat players,draw fouls, create chances and yet there was no one out there to shove the ball to him again and again and again and then get close to help him plays one-twos or drag the full back or covering midfielder away so that he was'nt crowded out which was his downfall. Our captain is culpable in this situation, he is the leader (NOT). Worst captain and most insignificant midfielder to have held down a role in the first team for years. Stanton and Harris are looking to stake and reclaim a place in the and IMHO are trying to be a bit too individual. Taiwo will never adjust to a forward thinking game plan, it's not in his DNA. Butcher is not innocent is all of this, subs were like for like before chucking on Heffernan for Taiwo but with no change of stategy or style.

GreenCastle
08-02-2014, 06:21 PM
The title is wrong - Worse than Fenlon - NO

As bad as some of the stuff Fenlon had us playing YES

Butcher is an improvement and will be longer term but today was a typical dire performance that we have had over the last few years.

Probably worst of the season and worse than the St Mirren home game where we were 3v0 down at HT - at least that day we kept the ball for more than 2 passes.

Sir David Gray
08-02-2014, 06:21 PM
if the game had been in kirkcaldy we may well have still been in the cup,we just cant do it at home

I actually made this very point on my way home tonight.

We'll obviously never know but I think we might have won if we had been playing at Stark's Park today.

Our record at Easter Road is woeful.

Thecat23
08-02-2014, 06:23 PM
Poor coaching from the new goalie coach who is so fat he can gardly walk, farless take training.

And telling Ben's agent they are looking for a new keeper. Then a month later saying the want him to stay.

2 year deal was on the table when TB came in. I think SM should stick to scouting. But Ben isn't happy with things right now.

hibby6270
08-02-2014, 06:27 PM
So let me get this straight - because we didn't beat Raith Tel is rubbish. And he just got lucky at ICT?

You may have hit the nail on the head.

hibby6270
08-02-2014, 06:29 PM
We are worse than last season. My opinion and don't care how much other posters say otherwise.

Agreed!!

mmmmhibby
08-02-2014, 06:35 PM
given time I think TB will do well, however, he needs to get rid of a lot of players at our club. I really don't know where to start tbh.

hibby6270
08-02-2014, 06:39 PM
I actually made this very point on my way home tonight.

We'll obviously never know but I think we might have won if we had been playing at Stark's Park today.

Our record at Easter Road is woeful.

Agreed!!

Only 4 wins at ER this season so far. Sadly I've only seen the most recent 2 - Killie and Hearts - because I had the temerity to be on holiday when they won 2 games in a row in September.

Wonder if when the ST renewal letters come out int the next few weeks, we'll be offered an Away Season ticket? Might be more enjoyable and guaranteed to see wins instead of losing every 2nd week at ER.

hibee_girl
08-02-2014, 06:41 PM
I actually made this very point on my way home tonight.

We'll obviously never know but I think we might have won if we had been playing at Stark's Park today.

Our record at Easter Road is woeful.

I said the same thing to my cousin at the game, if we'd got a replay out of today then we'd have been fine imo, we always perform better away from home these days. The players just don't seem to be able to handle ER at all.

Emerald
08-02-2014, 07:23 PM
Agreed!!

Only 4 wins at ER this season so far. Sadly I've only seen the most recent 2 - Killie and Hearts - because I had the temerity to be on holiday when they won 2 games in a row in September.

Wonder if when the ST renewal letters come out int the next few weeks, we'll be offered an Away Season ticket? Might be more enjoyable and guaranteed to see wins instead of losing every 2nd week at ER.

Me too, I was on holiday at the same time, too much money and all that? A ST isn't very good value for money when you go on holiday and miss 50% of a years home wins though. Maybe its our fault, maybe we're the bad Hibby's, maybe if we didn't attend games Easter Road would be a better place and the players would play without fear!! :boo hoo::boo hoo: Who knows? :bsod: :greengrin

One Day Soon
08-02-2014, 07:29 PM
You better believe we are. No progress at all.


There isn't a facepalm gif big enough for this post.

Stuffed in two cup finals, humiliated to a record level by Malmo and losing twice to one of the worst Yam teams any of us can remember. And you think that just weeks in as manager we are worse than under Fenlon? What utter utter baws.

Andy74
08-02-2014, 07:34 PM
There isn't a facepalm gif big enough for this post.

Stuffed in two cup finals, humiliated to a record level by Malmo and losing twice to one of the worst Yam teams any of us can remember. And you think that just weeks in as manager we are worse than under Fenlon? What utter utter baws.

So does declining results, lower league position and losing at home in the cup in earlier rounds to lower league opposition not count as getting worse?

aunty joyce
09-02-2014, 04:12 AM
I actually made this very point on my way home tonight.

We'll obviously never know but I think we might have won if we had been playing at Stark's Park today.

Our record at Easter Road is woeful.

This speaks volumes for me.

At times there can be a venomous atmosphere inside Easter Road and unfortunately it's not aimed at the opposition!!!
I appreciate that everyone is entitled to their opinion but I cringe at times at some of the vile abuse hurled at our players . . . We're supposed to be SUPPORTERS for goodness sake and i'd like to see us support our team for the full 90 minutes.

Was today's performance good - absolutely not, will we get more from our players by continually telling them how sh**e they are throughout the game I very much doubt it and please spare me the "these are professional football players they should be able to handle it".

There are individuals from the moment the referee blows his whistle to start the game who begin to abuse players, it almost like its a ritual . . . These people need to have a word with themselves.

Shout me down if you like I really don't care - it's no more than I'd expect from some of the posters / attendees of today's game.

I for one will always support my team 100% even when they're playing awful, I will never Boo any member of my team as it serves no purpose. Maybe I'm in a minority I don't know but I wouldn't like to think so.

IWasThere2016
09-02-2014, 05:50 AM
So does declining results, lower league position and losing at home in the cup in earlier rounds to lower league opposition not count as getting worse?

PF gave us 2 of that 3 after CC..

Time to look forward, TB needs a summer window and a summer clearoot!

Alfred E Newman
09-02-2014, 07:23 AM
Me too, I was on holiday at the same time, too much money and all that? A ST isn't very good value for money when you go on holiday and miss 50% of a years home wins though. Maybe its our fault, maybe we're the bad Hibby's, maybe if we didn't attend games Easter Road would be a better place and the players would play without fear!! :boo hoo::boo hoo: Who knows? :bsod: :greengrin

I was fortunate to miss our last 2 European campaigns as they coincided with my 2 week summer holiday.

Thecat23
09-02-2014, 07:42 AM
I did yeah. Don't get me wrong- the Malmo game was completely crushing for me (my car mechanic is their biggest fan) and I thought Pat did the right thing after those shocking scenes outside ER after the Hearts game.

But this year we have let in so many goals lately and this worries me greatly. I'm not enjoying the football at all and haven't made any plans to fly over to ER this season.. and on todays show- this wont change.

I take it you didn't watch Hibs often under Pat? I'm a season ticket holder and the football under him was the worst I've seen in years mate. I think this season is a write off and TB can't wait till he can build his own team. I am surprised though you think it's worse under Butcher!

jeffers
09-02-2014, 07:57 AM
I take it you didn't watch Hibs often under Pat? I'm a season ticket holder and the football under him was the worst I've seen in years mate. I think this season is a write off and TB can't wait till he can build his own team. I am surprised though you think it's worse under Butcher!

I don't think it is worse TC, but it's not much better and the results are about the same. A lot of the reaction and criticism of Butcher is based on fans angry at yesterday's performance and result. And IMO he deserves some of it. I agree he needs to bring in his own players, what manager doesn't, but bottom line for me is the players and squad he has at his disposal should not have lost yesterday conceding 3 goals at home to Raith Rovers.

Phil D. Rolls
09-02-2014, 09:54 AM
Not sure I can handle another change of manager. Other people seem to love it though.

I don't just mean Yams that are trying to keep some connection going to senior football. There are some sad ****ed up people following Hibs that are so happy to see bosses slip up. They need to have a look at what they want from life.

There you go Jambos, that's the real way to stir it up. Enjoy the East of Scotland league, and remember the unrealistic expectations that got you there.

Albion Hibs
09-02-2014, 11:18 AM
Anyone who believes that we are worse now than we were under fenlon us kidding themselves. We have been beaten by worse teams than raith rovers. They will finish mid table in the division below us, the last two seasons we have constantly used the word relegation, so to be beaten by them is no giant slaying.

Fenlon was the worst manager I have seen at hibs, he was clueless from the first minute to the last, and let's not forget each time one of us gets abuse from a Jambo it in invariably underlined by that score. The players on here that get the most stick are the ones he signed so I do not see how any shade of pat fenlon could make us better, we are well rid IMO.

TB gives me hope for the first time in a long time that we have a manager that will actually build something that represents a team, and I am pretty sure if one day he does leave we will be in a better state than we have been for a very long time.

hibs0666
09-02-2014, 11:26 AM
You better believe we are. No progress at all.

Love these posts, always raise a wee smile. :aok:

J-C
09-02-2014, 11:29 AM
We have had a terrible defence for the past 4-5 years, nothing has been done about it, we've accepted mediocrity. Looking at that team yesterday it's clear we need at least 12-15 players, that's nearly a new squad :confused:, we seem to take good decent pro's from other clubs and turn them into ***** overnight (Craig)

We need money to spend but that won't be forthcoming as Scottish football is in a state money wise, so we'll have to hunt the bargain basements again looking for those wee gems that Marsella seems to find, thing is every club is toiling and will be looking for wee gems to unearth.

I feel our troubles started at the top with Petrie and his negative attitude towards moving forward, he's happy to balance the books and nothing more, he's never been held responsible for the poor managerial appointments and STF seems unwilling to make the changes needed to improve.

Keep telling people we're only a midtable club and everyone at the club will have the same mind set. Look at Aberdeen, they brought in a very good manager, backed him with money and they have improved no end, why????? because the chairman and owner are fed up with mediocrity and want to be challenging at the top again.

The Voice Of Reason
09-02-2014, 11:33 AM
I take it you didn't watch Hibs often under Pat? I'm a season ticket holder and the football under him was the worst I've seen in years mate. I think this season is a write off and TB can't wait till he can build his own team. I am surprised though you think it's worse under Butcher!

Spot on.

Cropley10
09-02-2014, 11:56 AM
Anyone who believes that we are worse now than we were under fenlon us kidding themselves. We have been beaten by worse teams than raith rovers. They will finish mid table in the division below us, the last two seasons we have constantly used the word relegation, so to be beaten by them is no giant slaying.

Fenlon was the worst manager I have seen at hibs, he was clueless from the first minute to the last, and let's not forget each time one of us gets abuse from a Jambo it in invariably underlined by that score. The players on here that get the most stick are the ones he signed so I do not see how any shade of pat fenlon could make us better, we are well rid IMO.

TB gives me hope for the first time in a long time that we have a manager that will actually build something that represents a team, and I am pretty sure if one day he does leave we will be in a better state than we have been for a very long time.

Agree with every word of that

BOB MARLEYS DUG
09-02-2014, 11:59 AM
Our defence is soft as pish. IMO Forster isn't a right back.

Andy74
09-02-2014, 01:42 PM
I take it you didn't watch Hibs often under Pat? I'm a season ticket holder and the football under him was the worst I've seen in years mate. I think this season is a write off and TB can't wait till he can build his own team. I am surprised though you think it's worse under Butcher!

If the season is now a write off then it's worse. It wasn't a write off when the previous manger left. We were 5 points off second place.

One Day Soon
09-02-2014, 02:29 PM
If the season is now a write off then it's worse. It wasn't a write off when the previous manger left. We were 5 points off second place.

I'm definitely leaning towards thinking you are 'Worse than under Fenlon'. Your revisionism and blinkers now are astounding.

Andy74
09-02-2014, 02:51 PM
I'm definitely leaning towards thinking you are 'Worse than under Fenlon'. Your revisionism and blinkers now are astounding.

What have I revised there?

Yes, one of has has the blinkers on.

Beefster
09-02-2014, 02:55 PM
If the season is now a write off then it's worse. It wasn't a write off when the previous manger left. We were 5 points off second place.

Your position now is the polar opposite to when you defend Fenlon's results during his first few months in the job.

I don't mind anyone defending Fenlon but try to be consistent in the positions you take.

The Green Goblin
09-02-2014, 04:47 PM
If the season is now a write off then it's worse. It wasn't a write off when the previous manger left. We were 5 points off second place.

You're comparing Fenlon's two years + in charge with Butcher's twelve weeks and arguing we were better off with Fenlon. That's just not valid reasoning from any point of view.

Borderhibbie76
09-02-2014, 05:15 PM
Poor coaching from the new goalie coach who is so fat he can gardly walk, farless take training.

And telling Ben's agent they are looking for a new keeper. Then a month later saying the want him to stay.

We need a new keeper tho...even if Ben stays as he currently has NO competition for no 1 and its showing...he has been poor for weeks. If he is no happy then he csn do one...along with rest o big time charlies who think they know better than management team!!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Heisenberg
09-02-2014, 05:17 PM
Fenlon had his chance to build a decent team and he failed. It's only fair that Butcher is allowed that same time in order to try and do a better job of it.

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2014, 05:42 PM
Fenlon had his chance to build a decent team and he failed. It's only fair that Butcher is allowed that same time in order to try and do a better job of it.

Some managers come in and make an immediate difference, and to be honest good managers should be able to do this normally.

I dont think Butcher stood a chance doing this, not after successive managers filling the squad with the biggest bunch of losers we have at the club in years.

I hope to god Terry Butcher is not just a nice guy like his predecessor. :rolleyes:

GreenLake
09-02-2014, 06:10 PM
If the season is now a write off then it's worse. It wasn't a write off when the previous manger left. We were 5 points off second place.

This season is better now because we don't have to watch the worst manager in Hibs history's teams playing the worst football we have seen Hibs play. Butcher has a 100% win record against the worst Hearts team in history where Fenlon was 100% loser to them. Hearts right now would sign more than half that Raith team if they could so don't kid yourself that getting beat by them is worse than getting beat by Hearts. It will take more than half a season to rebuild a decent team and what we had was going nowhere ever. Griffiths flattered Fenlon.

Thecat23
09-02-2014, 06:17 PM
If the season is now a write off then it's worse. It wasn't a write off when the previous manger left. We were 5 points off second place.

Oh dear god I have no reply to this... We had only played a handful of games humiliated by Hearts/Malmo and the football was so bad EVERYONE from opposition fans, the media and our own fans were talking about it. I'm still convinced you don't like Butcher because you defended Pat the loser for far less.

jacomo
09-02-2014, 07:44 PM
If the season is now a write off then it's worse. It wasn't a write off when the previous manger left. We were 5 points off second place.

Yeah and at the start of the season we were level on points with the leaders.

Fenlon was given a fair crack. The job was too big for him. Things aren't going swimmingly for the new guy yet. You can keep stirring the pot if you want but it's boring now.

Jonnyboy
09-02-2014, 07:47 PM
What have I revised there?

Yes, one of has has the blinkers on.

Andy

Pat admitted the job was too big for him. Why can't you?

NorthNorfolkHFC
09-02-2014, 08:07 PM
;3900921']You cannot win games without the ball. And we do not retain the ball. Ever! Liam Craig has to be the least talented hibs captain of all time. Terrible midfielder!

Kevin Thomson needs a game. 100%

Wrong position. He is an attacking player. Not a defensive midfielder.

The Voice Of Reason
09-02-2014, 08:15 PM
Andy

Pat admitted the job was too big for him. Why can't you?

You are wasting your time Jonnyboy!

Andy74's ludicrous/blinkered stance on Fenlon reached the cringeworthy/embarrassing stage long ago. :yawn:

He fails to recognise that Butcher has no choice but to select Fenlon's duds. Fenlon failed at Hibs but Andy74 will never admit that. :ostrich:

He is making a fool of himself in a regular basis with his posts. He might even realise that one day......I'm not holding my breath though! :rolleyes:

Baldy Foghorn
09-02-2014, 09:16 PM
We are obvioulsly suffering with fragile confidence, however in this situation I would rather have TB trying to rectify the mess, than PF.....Let's see what his mighty axe wields come the Summer, and who he is allowed to sign.

Hibrandenburg
09-02-2014, 09:54 PM
Oh dear god I have no reply to this... We had only played a handful of games humiliated by Hearts/Malmo and the football was so bad EVERYONE from opposition fans, the media and our own fans were talking about it. I'm still convinced you don't like Butcher because you defended Pat the loser for far less.

Might also have something to do with the sometimes vile abuse he took for supporting our manager. Think Andy is well within his rights to question the wisdom of ANOTHER manager change. Can't blame him for feeling a wee bit schadenfreude now some of you have egg on your faces. Not so long back that some were gloating about how a new manager could get instant results with this team, they're surprisingly quiet at the moment.

IberianHibernian
09-02-2014, 10:08 PM
Might also have something to do with the sometimes vile abuse he took for supporting our manager. Think Andy is well within his rights to question the wisdom of ANOTHER manager change. Can't blame him for feeling a wee bit schadenfreude now some of you have egg on your faces. Not so long back that some were gloating about how a new manager could get instant results with this team, they're surprisingly quiet at the moment.Agree entirely Hiberlin . Since TB arrived we`ve been reading manager`s quotes about slow but steady progress and press going on about the Butcher affect etc etc while results have been worse than against same teams earlier in season and performances just as disappointing or worse . And reading about how Butcher can " turn it round " whatever that means as though we were in dire straits when PF left , 2 weeks after a great performance against Celtic and after being on an impressive run of results despite injuries after a bad start to season . Yogi and Fenlon both had us at top of league at Christmas and even with CC we won five SPL matches in a row and none of them enjoyed such a soft time from the press or our support so it`s only normal that fans expect some impact from a manager who was presumably appointed because of his experience of our league .

Ozyhibby
09-02-2014, 10:15 PM
Agree entirely Hiberlin . Since TB arrived we`ve been reading manager`s quotes about slow but steady progress and press going on about the Butcher affect etc etc while results have been worse than against same teams earlier in season and performances just as disappointing or worse . And reading about how Butcher can " turn it round " whatever that means as though we were in dire straits when PF left , 2 weeks after a great performance against Celtic and after being on an impressive run of results despite injuries after a bad start to season . Yogi and Fenlon both had us at top of league at Christmas and even with CC we won five SPL matches in a row and none of them enjoyed such a soft time from the press or our support so it`s only normal that fans expect some impact from a manager who was presumably appointed because of his experience of our league .

The 'great' performance against Celtic was a 4-0 defeat?

IberianHibernian
09-02-2014, 10:18 PM
The 'great' performance against Celtic was a 4-0 defeat?Was it not a 1v1 draw not long before PF left ?

cleanyman
09-02-2014, 10:23 PM
Was it not a 1v1 draw not long before PF left ?

1-1 was under Paddy.

We lost 1-0 at Parkhead and 0-4 at ER under Butcher

Broken Gnome
09-02-2014, 10:24 PM
People with the confidence that Fenlon would take us any where near where we wanted to be - increasingly minimal.

Butcher's at least a manager that instills a bit of belief, ambition and hope. Yes it's ropey, but most would wager than he's a lot better placed to get Hibs consistenly up the league and playing well than Fenlon was.

And that's as good a reason to have Butcher rather than Fenlon than any other one.

Swedish hibee
09-02-2014, 10:31 PM
I take it you didn't watch Hibs often under Pat? I'm a season ticket holder and the football under him was the worst I've seen in years mate. I think this season is a write off and TB can't wait till he can build his own team. I am surprised though you think it's worse under Butcher!

Yep, every week I'm here watching via Hibs TV. Cant agree with you at all so we'll agree to disagree.
Here's to next season though :)

cleanyman
09-02-2014, 10:37 PM
Next season...wait until the Summer....

All the usual stuff.

Season pretty much over and yesterday was a gutter. I like many other Hibs fans are struggling to maintain interest.

But oh....Hearts are ****ed though eh?

Hermit Crab
09-02-2014, 10:43 PM
Hopefully James Collins won't play for us again. Can't win a header, can't hold the ball up. Doesn't link the play. Aye he works hard, except today. Like playing with 10 men and that's against a team in the League below.

Aye right pal.

Heisenberg
09-02-2014, 10:48 PM
Aye right pal.

Everything he says is accurate. I don't hope he never plays again but he must do much better.

Hermit Crab
09-02-2014, 10:58 PM
Everything he says is accurate. I don't hope he never plays again but he must do much better.

What's the boy supposed to do when the ball is hoofed to him time after time with two big take no prisoner centre halfs up his erse and no midfielder insight to support him.

Folk making him the scapegoat is unfair.

cleanyman
09-02-2014, 11:01 PM
What's the boy supposed to do when the ball is hoofed to him time after time with two big take no prisoner centre halfs up his erse and no midfielder insight to support him.

Folk making him the scapegoat is unfair.

He struggles to control a football when the ball is actually played into his feet. Losing it in the air, fair dos. He's not that type of player.

But being unable to trap and pass a ball, that's my problem with him

Hermit Crab
09-02-2014, 11:05 PM
He struggles to control a football when the ball is actually played into his feet. Losing it in the air, fair dos. He's not that type of player.

But being unable to trap and pass a ball, that's my problem with him

You single him out for that when the rest of the team are the same?

cleanyman
09-02-2014, 11:08 PM
You single him out for that when the rest of the team are the same?

He's the worst in the team along with Nelson when it comes to controlling a football.

Hermit Crab
09-02-2014, 11:13 PM
He's the worst in the team along with Nelson when it comes to controlling a football.

Must be butchers fault the judging by your other thread.

cleanyman
09-02-2014, 11:14 PM
Must be butchers fault the judging by your other thread.

Cool.

Thecat23
09-02-2014, 11:31 PM
Yep, every week I'm here watching via Hibs TV. Cant agree with you at all so we'll agree to disagree.
Here's to next season though :)

Fair dos mate, your lucky you only get a ****ty stream I see it in full view. Defo agree to disagree but agree about the new season :D

Thecat23
09-02-2014, 11:34 PM
Might also have something to do with the sometimes vile abuse he took for supporting our manager. Think Andy is well within his rights to question the wisdom of ANOTHER manager change. Can't blame him for feeling a wee bit schadenfreude now some of you have egg on your faces. Not so long back that some were gloating about how a new manager could get instant results with this team, they're surprisingly quiet at the moment.

So everyone has egg on their faces do they? Because we thought Butcher is a better manager than Pat? Jesus Christ the man himself admitted he just can't do the job. It was to big. Andy can support him all he wants and when he was here he did but he's gone so why the constant support for a man who got it all wrong with training/tactics etc.. FFS I've had to man up before on here when I was wrong about time some others did too and move on from Pat (pish football but lovely guy) Fenlon.

blackpoolhibs
09-02-2014, 11:35 PM
Might also have something to do with the sometimes vile abuse he took for supporting our manager. Think Andy is well within his rights to question the wisdom of ANOTHER manager change. Can't blame him for feeling a wee bit schadenfreude now some of you have egg on your faces. Not so long back that some were gloating about how a new manager could get instant results with this team, they're surprisingly quiet at the moment.

Only an idiot thought Butcher could get that pile of dross winning more games, Fenlon and Calderwood have filled this club with very average to poor players, that nobody else would want bar a couple of promising kids.

Thecat23
09-02-2014, 11:53 PM
Only an idiot thought Butcher could get that pile of dross winning more games, Fenlon and Calderwood have filled this club with very average to poor players, that nobody else would want bar a couple of promising kids.

This..

snooky
10-02-2014, 12:17 AM
One of our biggest problems (apart from player quality) has been consistency in the team line up.
We looked liked we were having a settled side just over a month or so ago and we did play a bit better.
Alas, injuries and suspensions knocked that on the head.
Now we're back to Shamblestown.

Jdawg
10-02-2014, 04:06 AM
FFS, you lot saying we'd still be in if we had Fenlon. ****ing behave yourselves eh. Maybe we would maybe we wouldn't how do you know? Just because we got there twice in a row?

Also saying we're worse under Butcher than Fenlon is so far fetched it's borderline ****ing mental. Check the stats for shots at goal etc.. Compared to Butchers when he took over.

It's a pish result but the amount of Jambos on here today and bet wetters need to get a grip of themselves.

Agree on all points. Home and away under Fenlon we must have averaged 2/3 shots per game. In the 2 cup finals his selection / tactics were awful. That idiotic diamond against hearts :( complete walkover in both games and as for malmo...

442 with 4 CM's and hibs solely reliant on griffiths creating and scoring out of nothing is not a game plan.

He should of left walked after 5-1 never mind 0-7

Hibernia&Alba
10-02-2014, 05:31 AM
I was one of those who supported Fenlon longer than many - perhaps for too long - but after the 0-7 I had to hold my hands up and admit he had to go. Pat did his best but ultimately we didn't see the progress required. We don't know how things will unfold with Butcher, but I do know it's far too early to be judging his tenure. He inherited a very poor squad and a club with no morale, and it will take time. We don't have the money to spend our way out of trouble and will need to trust Terry and his team can slowly but surely put the team right with cheap signings and good coaching. There's no short cut for Hibs, I'm afraid. Whoever the manager is, he has a huge job on his hands. Progress under the right man will be slow at first, as much groundwork needs doing before we see the shoots of recovery. We've tried so many mangers in the past couple of decades, but it's hard task to find a man who can work on very tight budget yet meet or exceed the expectations of a capital city club. Even if there is such a manager out there, would he work at Hibs or in contemporary Scottish football at all? We need a few seasons with a Jock Stein or an Alex Ferguson who could totally rejuvenate the club, but they don't grow on trees.

Hibrandenburg
10-02-2014, 05:48 AM
So everyone has egg on their faces do they? Because we thought Butcher is a better manager than Pat? Jesus Christ the man himself admitted he just can't do the job. It was to big. Andy can support him all he wants and when he was here he did but he's gone so why the constant support for a man who got it all wrong with training/tactics etc.. FFS I've had to man up before on here when I was wrong about time some others did too and move on from Pat (pish football but lovely guy) Fenlon.

You really are upset that he sticks to his guns aren't you? Right or wrong he's entitled to his opinion even if it upsets you.

Thecat23
10-02-2014, 07:23 AM
You really are upset that he sticks to his guns aren't you? Right or wrong he's entitled to his opinion even if it upsets you.

No actually, I'm just bemused how some folk still defend him long after he's gone and even when he said himself the job was to big. I'm saying let it go!!!!

Hibrandenburg
10-02-2014, 07:38 AM
No actually, I'm just bemused how some folk still defend him long after he's gone and even when he said himself the job was to big. I'm saying let it go!!!!

Why should he "let it go"? If that's what he believes then let him be. Why don't you just let it go? I don't get the outrage of some at someone showing loyalty to a HIBS manager even if it was/is misguided.

Greenworld
10-02-2014, 07:57 AM
What's the boy supposed to do when the ball is hoofed to him time after time with two big take no prisoner centre halfs up his erse and no midfielder insight to support him.

Folk making him the scapegoat is unfair.

Dont agree either what he is supposed to do is kill the ball
in one touch hold and find a midfielder easy really..
but not if you cant trap a ball...also so slow its frightening

OsloHibs
10-02-2014, 09:52 AM
Fair dos mate, your lucky you only get a ****ty stream I see it in full view. Defo agree to disagree but agree about the new season :D

Whether you watch live online or watch live at ER - you still see the same thing.
Don't start up that debate again, we've enough on here already to debate without opening that can of worms.
I too think we are worse under Butcher, my opinion which I am allowed to have as a Hibs fan.

GreenLake
10-02-2014, 09:52 AM
Yep, every week I'm here watching via Hibs TV. Cant agree with you at all so we'll agree to disagree.
Here's to next season though :)

The only thing worse under Butcher is Hibs TV streaming

stevejordan
10-02-2014, 10:01 AM
I Was speaking to a fiend yesterday his son is in training with Hibs and he told me the reason Terry does not like Kevin Thomson is because he passes the ball backwards Terrys style is all out attack

Onion
10-02-2014, 10:08 AM
Only an idiot thought Butcher could get that pile of dross winning more games, Fenlon and Calderwood have filled this club with very average to poor players, that nobody else would want bar a couple of promising kids.

Well, that was not the consensus on this board at the start of the season. All talk was about how good the squad was and Fenlon's inability to get the best out of them. Most "idiots" bought into that myth.

The Sea-gull
10-02-2014, 10:12 AM
Worse than under Fenlon? I think we probably are at the moment unfortunately, well on a par at least. Not sure what the stats say but suspect they will back up the fact that we are worse off than we were under Fenlon. Is it Butcher's fault? Yes, partly but a lot of it is Fenlon's and ultimately the board's too.

I'd say we are not worse off than we were under Fenlon in terms of looking to the future. IMHO we have the right man to sort us out as long as he is given every opportunity to do it. Fenlon was not the right man and looking to the future he had lost the faith of the majority of the support.

Had Fenlon stayed would we be better off right now? Maybe but I suspect not really. I reckon we would be about the same and we would not have different sorts of signings in during the January as if the board doubted that Fenlon's contract would not be renewed at season's end then they would have only let him get loans in. I suspect it was decided fairly early on that Fenlon's contract would be looked at at the end of the season so that would not have changed.

Would we still be in the cup if Fenlon has stayed - maybe, maybe not. I can't think of anything Fenlon would have done that would have prevented Saturday's loss. It was the sort of perfromance Hibs churned out many times under him. Why did they do it again on Saturday? Coz they are largely (all bar one player starting and one sub) the same group Fenlon assembled and while a change in manager can make a difference, ultimately I think you would have to be Sir Alex Ferguson to get that Hibs team playing a different tune which brings my way of thinking back to saying that the bulk of the blame is with Fenlon.

J-C
10-02-2014, 11:01 AM
We played hoofball under Fenlon and are still playing hoofball with Butcher, the only difference I can see between them is Butchers has tried to get players moving in a forward direction and is looking to win games rather than Fenlon's negativity of looking not to get beat.

In his last 2 matches Butcher has started with a 4-2-3-1 set up, that in itself does not allow for hoofball tactics as it bypasses the 3 man midfield, also in that set up the 2 wide men need to cover for the fullbacks. Stevenson on the left covered for McGivern and Cairney for Forster, unfortunately Harris and Watmore are far too attack minded and for get their other duties.

J-C
10-02-2014, 11:09 AM
Well, that was not the consensus on this board at the start of the season. All talk was about how good the squad was and Fenlon's inability to get the best out of them. Most "idiots" bought into that myth.

Well I was not one of those, apart from Craig( who had a very good season before joining ) Heffernan( injury prone and getting old ), Vine last minute panic buy and living off one decent game against us and Nelson a 33 year old slower than a snail hoofball specialist( oh and also a panic buy ). Collins looked decent and had a fairly good season before joining but he needs balls into feet not air. Fenlon never addressed the right back problem, or managed to get cover for our injured wide men and we went into the season poorly prepared and under manned.

The Sea-gull
10-02-2014, 11:57 AM
Well I was not one of those, apart from Craig( who had a very good season before joining ) Heffernan( injury prone and getting old ), Vine last minute panic buy and living off one decent game against us and Nelson a 33 year old slower than a snail hoofball specialist( oh and also a panic buy ). Collins looked decent and had a fairly good season before joining but he needs balls into feet not air. Fenlon never addressed the right back problem, or managed to get cover for our injured wide men and we went into the season poorly prepared and under manned.

Good post. I was happy with the signing of Craig and OTJ though neither have worked out as well as I thought they would. Felt Vine, Nelson and Heff were a panic signings though was hopeful they could contribute, didn't know anything about Collins but had reservations in paying out for a player who was relatively inexperienced in general with no evidence to say he could perform in the SPL. Zoubir always reeked of panic signing and has proved thus.

Right back was indeed never fully addressed. The Mullen signing was and has proved strange to say the least and don't feel Fenlon ever addressed our need to sign a top quality centre back who could peform consistently week in week out. To be fair Yogi and CC never managed this either as we have never replaced Rob Jones. Thought McPake could be that man but that did not last long and while I don't mind Nelson, he is just a bog standard, bang average SPL centre half. And 33/34 to boot.

Thecat23
10-02-2014, 11:59 AM
Whether you watch live online or watch live at ER - you still see the same thing.
Don't start up that debate again, we've enough on here already to debate without opening that can of worms.
I too think we are worse under Butcher, my opinion which I am allowed to have as a Hibs fan.

You do know I was joking right? As for your opinion I have no issue at all. Chill out!!

Just like you and anyone else, I have an opinion and that is Butchers football so far hasn't been a huge improvement but the amount of crosses into the box and shots on goal proves the football is slightly better IMO.

MinceAndTatties
10-02-2014, 12:02 PM
This speaks volumes for me.

At times there can be a venomous atmosphere inside Easter Road and unfortunately it's not aimed at the opposition!!!
I appreciate that everyone is entitled to their opinion but I cringe at times at some of the vile abuse hurled at our players . . . We're supposed to be SUPPORTERS for goodness sake and i'd like to see us support our team for the full 90 minutes.

Was today's performance good - absolutely not, will we get more from our players by continually telling them how sh**e they are throughout the game I very much doubt it and please spare me the "these are professional football players they should be able to handle it".

There are individuals from the moment the referee blows his whistle to start the game who begin to abuse players, it almost like its a ritual . . . These people need to have a word with themselves.

Shout me down if you like I really don't care - it's no more than I'd expect from some of the posters / attendees of today's game.

I for one will always support my team 100% even when they're playing awful, I will never Boo any member of my team as it serves no purpose. Maybe I'm in a minority I don't know but I wouldn't like to think so.

Excellent post, especially the last 2 lines.

MinceAndTatties
10-02-2014, 12:38 PM
We played hoofball under Fenlon and are still playing hoofball with Butcher, the only difference I can see between them is Butchers has tried to get players moving in a forward direction and is looking to win games rather than Fenlon's negativity of looking not to get beat.

In his last 2 matches Butcher has started with a 4-2-3-1 set up, that in itself does not allow for hoofball tactics as it bypasses the 3 man midfield, also in that set up the 2 wide men need to cover for the fullbacks. Stevenson on the left covered for McGivern and Cairney for Forster, unfortunately Harris and Watmore are far too attack minded and for get their other duties.

I thought we started playing well in the 2nd half against Celtic with a 4-2-3-1 which had Zoubir, Stanton and Harris on the ball a lot. I think it was a mistake to start with Whatmore (duck the missiles inevitably coming !) I would have stuck to the same three and asked them to build on that performance and kept Whatmore in reserve to bring on as a sub. He did many good things but gave no protection to Forster who was struggling against Cardle. Taiwo did very well against Celtic in that holding role. Kept it simple, winning the ball and giving it to Stanton and co. I don't think Craig was as comfortable in that role. He takes too long to make a pass.

J-C
10-02-2014, 01:52 PM
I thought we started playing well in the 2nd half against Celtic with a 4-2-3-1 which had Zoubir, Stanton and Harris on the ball a lot. I think it was a mistake to start with Whatmore (duck the missiles inevitably coming !) I would have stuck to the same three and asked them to build on that performance and kept Whatmore in reserve to bring on as a sub. He did many good things but gave no protection to Forster who was struggling against Cardle. Taiwo did very well against Celtic in that holding role. Kept it simple, winning the ball and giving it to Stanton and co. I don't think Craig was as comfortable in that role. He takes too long to make a pass.

My biggest question as yet unanswered is why TB insists on playing one of the best attacking midfielders from last season as a holding midfielder, Craig had a very good year last year but even Fenlon played him out of position out on the wing. Someone on another post was talking of square pegs in round holes, well this is a perfect example, also not playing Thomson at defensive midfield is a question still unanswered. TB wants to play a high tempo in your face type of game but until you get in the correct players to play that, you must play what you have in the right way, we don't want a slow laborious build up which is easy to read but if we could play a smooth passing game, making sure the emphasis is on attack.

blackpoolhibs
10-02-2014, 02:41 PM
Well, that was not the consensus on this board at the start of the season. All talk was about how good the squad was and Fenlon's inability to get the best out of them. Most "idiots" bought into that myth.

Thats why i said what i did, the dross Butcher was left by Fenlon and Calderwood would have Fergie pulling his hair out, i said it then and i'm saying it now.

Only an idiot would think just changing the manager would get this bunch of losers winning more games than before.

Cabbage_Patch
10-02-2014, 04:47 PM
Massive clear out needed in the summer. We were totally shambolic on Saturday and I agree the only player with pass marks for me was Whatmore.

Head of the list should be James Collins, im sorry but the guy is a donkey, I put it down to him being low on confidence at the start of the season but Im not seeing where his goals are coming from. Waste of a very precious 200K that could have been much better spent. Id have Heffernan starting ahead of him every time.

Also on the exit list needs to be Taiwo. He has the odd decent game but for the majority chases shadows. Zoubir needs to be sent back to France aswell. Again looked a player to begin with but tries to do too much on the ball.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
10-02-2014, 04:53 PM
Massive clear out needed in the summer. We were totally shambolic on Saturday and I agree the only player with pass marks for me was Whatmore.

Head of the list should be James Collins, im sorry but the guy is a donkey, I put it down to him being low on confidence at the start of the season but Im not seeing where his goals are coming from. Waste of a very precious 200K that could have been much better spent. Id have Heffernan starting ahead of him every time.

Also on the exit list needs to be Taiwo. He has the odd decent game but for the majority chases shadows. Zoubir needs to be sent back to France aswell. Again looked a player to begin with but tries to do too much on the ball.

See IMO, Heffernan is the best finisher at the club. Should be playing a lot more. I do like Collins though!

The Green Goblin
10-02-2014, 08:35 PM
You are wasting your time Jonnyboy!

Andy74's ludicrous/blinkered stance on Fenlon reached the cringeworthy/embarrassing stage long ago. :yawn:

He fails to recognise that Butcher has no choice but to select Fenlon's duds. Fenlon failed at Hibs but Andy74 will never admit that. :ostrich:

He is making a fool of himself in a regular basis with his posts. He might even realise that one day......I'm not holding my breath though! :rolleyes:

The different opinions are what makes this board so interesting imho, so long may that continue. However, in this case, to compare Butcher's twelve weeks and no summer transfer windows in charge with Fenlon's two years and reach conclusions about things like "better or worse" is silly. Yes, here we are again waiting for the latest "rebuilding" etc. but whose fault is that? Certainly not Butcher's. Whilst the buck stops with him on team selection and tactics, and he shouldn't be immune from justified criticism, he has also barely started his job. We could at least give him a bit of time and one summer transfer window to see what he does and judge him when it's his own team out there wearing the jersey.