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Sylar
06-02-2014, 09:03 PM
Am I alone in thinking this creates a bit of a dangerous precedent?

The FA tossed out West Ham's appeal against Carroll's red card and now West Ham are taking it a stage further.

If nothing else, isn't this 'bringing the game into disrepute' - are their rules in place regarding outside intervention like this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26039222

Winston Ingram
06-02-2014, 09:16 PM
West Ham are embarrassing themselves.

Groathillgrump
06-02-2014, 09:17 PM
What a ridiculous idea!

ian cruise
06-02-2014, 09:17 PM
I think there is in Scotland, did Rangers bit fall foul if it? In England I'm going to guess not, but I bet there will be soon.

Sir David Gray
06-02-2014, 09:36 PM
I don't think clubs should be allowed to take legal action over this kind of thing but the FA needs to take a long, hard look at their appeals process because there's no way that was a red card offence.

It was barely even a foul.

Future17
06-02-2014, 09:37 PM
It's a bit embarrassing as it was clearly a red card, however the route for challenge has been there for a good few years so they're perfectly entitled to use it.

Wouldn't really be a precedent as other clubs have used it already.

Biggie
06-02-2014, 09:37 PM
Pretty sure their just buying time.....if they appeal he can play in the next 3 games against teams they need to get results against.......

hibs4thecup1988
06-02-2014, 09:43 PM
It's a bit embarrassing as it was clearly a red card, however the route for challenge has been there for a good few years so they're perfectly entitled to use it.

Wouldn't really be a precedent as other clubs have used it already.

Did you see it yeah? Baffling

Hibs Class
06-02-2014, 09:46 PM
I think there is in Scotland, did Rangers bit fall foul if it? In England I'm going to guess not, but I bet there will be soon.

Think you're right about rangers falling foul, but I'd a feeling it was either a FIFA or uefa rule which a Swiss club (Sion, maybe?) had previously also broken.

HUTCHYHIBBY
06-02-2014, 10:11 PM
I've got a bit of a soft spot for The Hammers, but, I do find this a bit embarrassing. Might be a fair point re just playing for time re the appeal though. :confused:

Winston Ingram
06-02-2014, 10:13 PM
It's a bit embarrassing as it was clearly a red card, however the route for challenge has been there for a good few years so they're perfectly entitled to use it.

Wouldn't really be a precedent as other clubs have used it already.

Agreed. :agree:

iwasthere1972
06-02-2014, 10:16 PM
I don't think it was a red card but West Ham taken legal action is embarrassing.

Take the punishment and move on.

NOLA
06-02-2014, 10:36 PM
it was never a red card, as others have stated im sure this is just a stunt to delay his upcoming ban.

Scottie
06-02-2014, 10:36 PM
West Ham are embarrassing themselves.

:agree: Ridiculous that they want to bring more embarrassment to their club

Hibercelona
07-02-2014, 07:19 AM
What else are they supposed to do?

Just accept their punishment for something that they shouldn't be punished for? :confused:

The people at the top of the game get far too much protection.

Winston Ingram
07-02-2014, 07:26 AM
What else are they supposed to do?

Just accept their punishment for something that they shouldn't be punished for? :confused:

The people at the top of the game get far too much protection.

Of course they are. An appeal is there to determine whether the ref got it wrong. The TV evidence does not prove that. That being the case they can't say he got it wrong so can't rescind

Hibercelona
07-02-2014, 07:33 AM
Of course they are. An appeal is there to determine whether the ref got it wrong. The TV evidence does not prove that. That being the case they can't say he got it wrong so can't rescind

The TV evidence proves that it was entirely accidental and that there was no intention at all.

How can the red card not be over turned then?

Pete
07-02-2014, 07:44 AM
A few years ago the trend was to be offended on other peoples behalf.

It now appears that embarrassment has overtaken it. Are embarrassment thresholds that low nowadays?

Take a leaf out of yogi's or stack's book.

Winston Ingram
07-02-2014, 07:52 AM
The TV evidence proves that it was entirely accidental and that there was no intention at all.

How can the red card not be over turned then?

In your opinion it does. In mine, several others on this thread, outside of this message board and in the FA Panel's it doesn't.

The fact that there is so much dispute over it proves that the panel can't conclusively say the referee is wrong so therefore can not overturn it.

easty
07-02-2014, 07:57 AM
The TV evidence proves that it was entirely accidental and that there was no intention at all.

How can the red card not be over turned then?

It wasn't an accident, it was petty and stupid. I don't think Carroll did it to really hurt the guy, but he knew where Chico was and swung his arm round. Red card was right for me, and West Ham are embarrassing themselves with this legal chat.

Future17
07-02-2014, 08:05 AM
The TV evidence proves that it was entirely accidental and that there was no intention at all.

How can the red card not be over turned then?

The TV evidence doesn't prove anything in this case - it's entirely open to personal interpretation. However, for me, he swings his arm in an unnatural manner, or at least at an unnatural height, because he's trying to make contact with Flores.

Winston Ingram
07-02-2014, 08:10 AM
The TV evidence doesn't prove anything in this case - it's entirely open to personal interpretation. However, for me, he swings his arm in an unnatural manner, or at least at an unnatural height, because he's trying to make contact with Flores.

...on top of that if his arm was to hit him 'naturally' the direction of his arm would have deviated on impact. It doesn't, because he seems to straighten and tense it with what i can only assume is intent to cause maximum harm.

Onion
07-02-2014, 08:30 AM
So they expect a Judge or a jury to be better placed to decide if something is a red card offence ? Lol

If successful, it would create a new world wide industry and micro economy for lawyers and courts. Every decision could be referred to courts to decide. Maybe there is some hope for Rudi after all :)

WHUFC are an embarrassment to themselves and the English game.

Ronniekirk
07-02-2014, 08:41 AM
So they expect a Judge or a jury to be better placed to decide if something is a red card offence ? Lol

If successful, it would create a new world wide industry and micro economy for lawyers and courts. Every decision could be referred to courts to decide. Maybe there is some hope for Rudi after all :)

WHUFC are an embarrassment to themselves and the English game.

Takes Sporting Integrity to a whole new Judicial Level .what a waste of money

Scouse Hibee
07-02-2014, 08:47 AM
...on top of that if his arm was to hit him 'naturally' the direction of his arm would have deviated on impact. It doesn't, because he seems to straighten and tense it with what i can only assume is intent to cause maximum harm.


Nonsense.

MKHIBEE
07-02-2014, 09:14 AM
Just been announced on SSN that West Ham will accept the decision of the FA's arbitration panel.

HUTCHYHIBBY
07-02-2014, 09:19 AM
Nonsense.

This.

Scouse Hibee
07-02-2014, 09:20 AM
Just been announced on SSN that West Ham will accept the decision of the FA's arbitration panel.

Good to hear, though I don't agree with the decision to uphold the red card I would hate to see decisions challenged in courts of law for such offences, it has to be kept within the football environment not taken out of it. Ah well it won't be long before we can all debate the next one. :greengrin

MB62
07-02-2014, 09:26 AM
The TV evidence proves that it was entirely accidental and that there was no intention at all.

How can the red card not be over turned then?

Disagree, thought T.V. proved it WAS a red card.

Opinions eh! :greengrin

Billy Whizz
07-02-2014, 09:47 AM
Regardless if it was a red or not, I think a 3 game ban for this sort of incident is excessive

Winston Ingram
07-02-2014, 09:52 AM
Regardless if it was a red or not, I think a 3 game ban for this sort of incident is excessive

Why so?

Whether he hit him on the nose or missed him it's still my and many other opinions it was violent conduct.

RyeSloan
07-02-2014, 09:53 AM
Red card? Dunno.

Sure looks like he swing his arm intentionally though but it's hardly in a vicious and pointed manner...Flores doesn't help by collapsing after it skiffs his pony tail either...

If it was a Hibs player I would defo be of the opinion that it was very soft but that the player was a bit daft doing what he did and if you give the ref a decision to make you can't complain too loudly when be makes one you don't like.

Scouse Hibee
07-02-2014, 11:19 AM
Red card? Dunno.

Sure looks like he swing his arm intentionally though but it's hardly in a vicious and pointed manner...Flores doesn't help by collapsing after it skiffs his pony tail either...

If it was a Hibs player I would defo be of the opinion that it was very soft but that the player was a bit daft doing what he did and if you give the ref a decision to make you can't complain too loudly when be makes one you don't like.


This is the thing, I don't think that anyone no matter what their feeling on the red card can deny that Flores is guilty of simulation with regard to the impact and his reaction.

StevieC
07-02-2014, 12:12 PM
This is the thing, I don't think that anyone no matter what their feeling on the red card can deny that Flores is guilty of simulation with regard to the impact and his reaction.

Definitely. That's the most embarrassing thing in this whole event. He should also receive a ban.

SaulGoodman
07-02-2014, 12:16 PM
On a completely unrelated note, anyone see Ronaldo's recent red card?

Biggie
07-02-2014, 12:45 PM
On a completely unrelated note, anyone see Ronaldo's recent red card?

That'll be no then :greengrin
What happened ?....

HUTCHYHIBBY
07-02-2014, 01:08 PM
This is the thing, I don't think that anyone no matter what their feeling on the red card can deny that Flores is guilty of simulation with regard to the impact and his reaction.

Imagine the faux outrage on here if it had been Suarez! ;-)

Scouse Hibee
07-02-2014, 01:13 PM
Imagine the faux outrage on here if it had been Suarez! ;-)

Off the scale!

Onion
07-02-2014, 04:49 PM
Definitely. That's the most embarrassing thing in this whole event. He should also receive a ban.

:top marks Almost as if Flores no bearing on the outcome.

In reality, had Flores just got up and on with it, nothing would have happened to Carroll. But he knew exactly what he was doing and the weak ref bought it.

Unrelated, but feels a bit like last weekend's Cup Semi where Meeking's red card was rescinded but nothing is said about the ref who sent the guy off !

--------
07-02-2014, 06:08 PM
This is the thing, I don't think that anyone no matter what their feeling on the red card can deny that Flores is guilty of simulation with regard to the impact and his reaction.


That was my thought as soon as I saw it.

Carroll was a wee bit naughty leaving his arm out there, but Flores' reaction was ridiculous. If it had been Luis Suarez we would have had a storm of posts from the Outraged Moral Minority yelling for his blood. Somehow it's OK for this guy to simulate to get another player red-carded?

IIRC the fleshy part of Carroll's arm connected - not terribly hard - with the top of Flores' forehead, a glancing blow at best. Flores went down as if he'd been smacked in the face with a steam-hammer, then rolled around in poorly-simulated "agony" for a couple of minutes until he was sure Carroll had been sent off. It's not the first time he's done this at West Ham - the previous time the referee IIRC wasn't taken in.

Flores has also been on Twitter stirring it farther, a matter which IMO the FA should follow up with a suspension and fine for doing exactly what some folks are accusing West Ham of doing - bringing the game into disrepute.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2552542/Chico-Flores-mocks-ugly-West-Ham-Andy-Carroll-red-card-incident.html

And I also notice that a former FA compliance officer is supporting them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26077406

Of the two players it seems clear to me that if anyone has brought the game into disrepute - by feigning injury, which is cheating, and by making public comments that are clearly out of order - it's Flores.

And it's Flores who should be facing a lengthy ban.

poolman
07-02-2014, 07:39 PM
I think Carroll knew all right what he was doing, albeit a bit sneakily hoping the Ref wouldn't take any action ( maybes )


But Flores reaction was totally laughable and it's time that those guys got a 3 game suspension as well for being right drama Queens