Who next? Do you ever feel you're in the minority?

[Hibbyradge]

It's never ending.

Sometimes it feels like I'm the only person who has never sexually assaulted someone. :bitchy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25917895

[NOLA]

It's never ending.

Sometimes it feels like I'm the only person who has never sexually assaulted someone. :bitchy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25917895

without knowing the law on these instances how can the law prove a case of indecent assualt over 30years ago? id imagine if it was just the 1 complainant the police wouldnt be able to make a charge so needed to find more complainants to present a "bundle" case to the courts whereby giving more substance to the prosecutions claim?

[RyeSloan]

without knowing the law on these instances how can the law prove a case of indecent assualt over 30years ago? id imagine if it was just the 1 complainant the police wouldnt be able to make a charge so needed to find more complainants to present a "bundle" case to the courts whereby giving more substance to the prosecutions claim?

Been thinking the same. How can you prove events from so long ago that had no witnesses?

And just because there is a 'bundle' of accusations (none of which appear to have been lodged at the time) that in itself can surely not be taken as any sort of proof beyond reasonable doubt that any individual event occurred.

Not saying that any of these ******* shouldn't be prosecuted if they have done what is claimed I'm just unsure how the prosecutions can go about proving it.

[lapsedhibee]

It's never ending.

Sometimes it feels like I'm the only person who has never sexually assaulted someone. :bitchy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25917895

I haven't either, but a few schoolteachers did things to me several decades ago that they would be instantly dismissed for now. I have some sympathy for the pervy cornflake's apparent argument that it's wrong to apply modern standards indiscriminately to behaviours of thirty or forty years ago.

[Pretty Boy]

I see William Roache has been cleared of one charge due to insufficient evidence.

The alleged victim actually had no memory of an attack taking place.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-25918373

[Phil D. Rolls]

This will go on at least until the NOTW trial is over.

[Betty Boop]

William Roache cleared of all charges.

[wpj]

I see William Roache has been cleared of one charge due to insufficient evidence.

The alleged victim actually had no memory of an attack taking place.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-25918373

How can a case get to court if there is no memory of the event? Surely no one could have expected anything except a not guilty? Obviously we have limited info on the case but it seems strange.

[Pretty Boy]

How can a case get to court if there is no memory of the event? Surely no one could have expected anything except a not guilty? Obviously we have limited info on the case but it seems strange.

Personally I can't help but feel the CPS and Police, in the wake of Yewtree, are terrified of allegations of cover up so are taking cases to court that they may not have otherwise.

[wpj]

Personally I can't help but feel the CPS and Police, in the wake of Yewtree, are terrified of allegations of cover up so are taking cases to court that they may not have otherwise.

I don't doubt it, my worry is that it will possibly devalue genuine cases in the future if we, the public start to feel fatigued by the constant accusations and acquittals

[(((Fergus)))]

It's never ending.

Sometimes it feels like I'm the only person who has never sexually assaulted someone. :bitchy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25917895

Just you plus two blokes out of Corrie. :top marks

[RyeSloan]

Personally I can't help but feel the CPS and Police, in the wake of Yewtree, are terrified of allegations of cover up so are taking cases to court that they may not have otherwise.

Would seem likely...the DLT case doesn't seem too secure either.

[heretoday]

It's one person's word against another's. No evidence so no real chance of conviction.

However, I would have thought five women coming forward would at least have established some pattern of behaviour on the part of Roache - or Cockroache as we now have to call him.

Let's face it. There's a lot of things went on in those days and a lot of TV and radio personalities who will be breathing easier in their beds tonight, including, I suspect, DLT.

[Hibbyradge]

It's one person's word against another's. No evidence so no real chance of conviction.

However, I would have thought five women coming forward would at least have established some pattern of behaviour on the part of Roache - or Cockroache as we now have to call him.
.

Why do we now have to call him that? :confused:

[heretoday]

That was his nickname back in the 60s apparently. Actually I withdraw that slur sorry. I just hate the thought of possible miscarriage of justice having taken place.

[lapsedhibee]

I don't doubt it, my worry is that it will possibly devalue genuine cases in the future if we, the public start to feel fatigued by the constant accusations and acquittals

Agree. I'm beginning to lose confidence now in my plan to get bumper compo for Lochgelly-based assaults by schoolteachers of the same vintage.

[RyeSloan]

So DLT acquitted on all but 2 allegations.

Interesting that the most recent two were the ones where no verdict could be reached...I reckon there will be no re-trial however.

The police need to have a look at their approach to these cases now I would suggest with two very high profile cases failing to get a conviction.

Also DLT claims he had to sell his house to pay legal fees, does he have any avenue to claim those costs back? Must be galling to have to spend so much to defend yourself if you are actually an innocent party.

[snooky]

Social values in the 50's & 60's (and earlier) were a lot different from what they are today.
Imagine the reverse happening? i.e. take today's morality and judge it using say, the fifties laws and ethics.

The 'F' word on TV? You would be sine died for that then. Today it's commonplace.
Nudity? Try flicking through the tv channels after midnight. Unheard of back then.
Violence in films? Back then it was <biff> and <bop> type fisticuffs. Nowadays people are mutilated on the screen in the name of entertainment(??!!??).

My point is, it is unfair to judge one generation using the laws of another one. Society changes with time and so does social values. Also, I'm not saying things were better or worse back then - just that they were different.

Obviously, there are extreme cases (eg Jimmy Savile) which are despicable no matter what era they happened in.

[heretoday]

Social values in the 50's & 60's (and earlier) were a lot different from what they are today.
Imagine the reverse happening? i.e. take today's morality and judge it using say, the fifties laws and ethics.

The 'F' word on TV? You would be sine died for that then. Today it's commonplace.
Nudity? Try flicking through the tv channels after midnight. Unheard of back then.
Violence in films? Back then it was <biff> and <bop> type fisticuffs. Nowadays people are mutilated on the screen in the name of entertainment(??!!??).

My point is, it is unfair to judge one generation using the laws of another one. Society changes with time and so does social values. Also, I'm not saying things were better or worse back then - just that they were different.

Obviously, there are extreme cases (eg Jimmy Savile) which are despicable no matter what era they happened in.

That's fair enough actually. In the case of kids it's still something to pursue, even decades later. It'll be interesting to see how Rolf Harris gets on. Not sure what hard evidence there is against him.

[Pretty Boy]

Max Clifford guilty of 8 counts if indecent assault, cleared of 2 and no verdict for another.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Max Clifford guilty of 8 counts if indecent assault, cleared of 2 and no verdict for another.

Jailed for 8 years, a few of his "contacts" will be a bit twitchy just now.

[RyeSloan]

Never liked that parasite so to see him get 8 years is nothing less than he deserves

[heretoday]

Jailed for 8 years, a few of his "contacts" will be a bit twitchy just now.

You're right. He'll be exchanging celebrity secrets for favours inside.

And he'll be out before you know it and free to enjoy his millions.

[RyeSloan]

You're right. He'll be exchanging celebrity secrets for favours inside. And he'll be out before you know it and free to enjoy his millions.

Not so sure. Now that he has went down for some of his past actions there is every chance there are many many more that now feel emboldened enough to come forward.

Clifford obviously thought that the fact he had so much on so many that he was safe...clearly now that's not the case and I wouldn't be surprised to more sordid tales about this git come to the fore.

[Hibbyradge]

You're right. He'll be exchanging celebrity secrets for favours inside.

And he'll be out before you know it and free to enjoy his millions.

He'll certainly try to use his wealth to guarantee his personal safety, but that might not be so easy if he's in the sex offenders' wing.

[snooky]

He'll certainly try to use his wealth to guarantee his personal safety, but that might not be so easy if he's in the sex offenders' wing.

He'll be in the Max Security Wing no doubt. :wink:

[easty]

Cliff Richard next???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28790718

[blackpoolhibs]

Cliff Richard next???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28790718

Congratulations bachelor boy.

[Hibrandenburg]

Cliff Richard next???

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28790718

He does like "the young ones".

[snooky]

"Oh what a tangled Webb we weave. When first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott (Marmion)

[over the line]

without knowing the law on these instances how can the law prove a case of indecent assualt over 30years ago? id imagine if it was just the 1 complainant the police wouldnt be able to make a charge so needed to find more complainants to present a "bundle" case to the courts whereby giving more substance to the prosecutions claim?

It tends to rest on the particular M.O. of the offences/offender. If 10 people come forward individually and report similar offences, committed in very similar ways, in similar places etc and can describe them in sufficient detail, then there may be a case. I think it was in the Saville case, where several of the victims described a distinctive curtain in a certain place, where a lot of his offences took place.

[HappyAsHellas]

I was a jury member in a similar case, although the defendant was not famous. I wondered how the guy could be proven to be guilty, and it is from this repeated MO, which gives "proof" of the sins committed. On top of this you have the jury itself, and this was a real eye opener for me. We were instructed by the judge to apply the letter of the law and put aside our own feelings. As a collective, we failed in this matter. I found myself at one point trying to defend a man who I thought was a loathsome piece of vermin, fit only for extermination. My pleadings fell on deaf ears and he was most certainly found guilty on a rape charge of which he was entirely innocent. Someone being found guilty in these cases therefore, is no guarantee of their guilt.

[over the line]

I was a jury member in a similar case, although the defendant was not famous. I wondered how the guy could be proven to be guilty, and it is from this repeated MO, which gives "proof" of the sins committed. On top of this you have the jury itself, and this was a real eye opener for me. We were instructed by the judge to apply the letter of the law and put aside our own feelings. As a collective, we failed in this matter. I found myself at one point trying to defend a man who I thought was a loathsome piece of vermin, fit only for extermination. My pleadings fell on deaf ears and he was most certainly found guilty on a rape charge of which he was entirely innocent. Someone being found guilty in these cases therefore, is no guarantee of their guilt.

The jury system is far from perfect I agree, peoples emotions are bound to play a part in their decision making. I think it must be difficult not to have a reasonable doubt in historical cases (of any nature). In which case a juror should be returning a not guilty verdict. Without having all the relevant facts of all the cases though, it is impossible to know really. The fact that there have been some guilty verdicts and some not guilty verdicts in cases of this nature, hopefully shows that maybe juries are looking at the individual facts of the cases? There couldn't be a worse type of offence to be wrongly convicted of could there?

[HappyAsHellas]

The case I sat on took two weeks of producing evidence, which when all was said and done, could have been written on the inside of a frogs ear with a two inch paint brush. The legal system is never perfect, but the thought of, as you say, being incarcerated as a sexual deviant must be absolute hell.

[over the line]

The case I sat on took two weeks of producing evidence, which when all was said and done, could have been written on the inside of a frogs ear with a two inch paint brush. The legal system is never perfect, but the thought of, as you say, being incarcerated as a sexual deviant must be absolute hell.


I'm not sure any of the alternatives to the jury system would provide anything better really?

[Pretty Boy]

http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/jill-dando-murdered-by-state-to-keep.html?m=1

Good chance this is nonsense but could there be a ring of truth to it? Rumours of influential paedophile rimgs are hardly new in Britain. Holly Greig anyone?

[The_Exile]

http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/jill-dando-murdered-by-state-to-keep.html?m=1

Good chance this is nonsense but could there be a ring of truth to it? Rumours of influential paedophile rimgs are hardly new in Britain. Holly Greig anyone?

That story has been doing the rounds for a while, there have been various people allegedly murdered, including one of the victims of Elm Guest House, who went to the police for help, but obviously didn't get it. Sordid stuff.

[over the line]

http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/jill-dando-murdered-by-state-to-keep.html?m=1

Good chance this is nonsense but could there be a ring of truth to it? Rumours of influential paedophile rimgs are hardly new in Britain. Holly Greig anyone?

My favorite comment at the bottom of the article, is the fouth or fifth one, "and If my auntie had bollocks she'd be my uncle". Just about sums it up for me.

[YetholmHibee]

It's not funny, it's real . . . . .

CLIFF RICHARD - PAEDOPHILE?THE FACTS,ALLEGATIONS.TONY BLAIR,MI5,JILL DANDO.RONNIE KRAY.KATY PERRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHKwzpwK8Ss

The Real Killers of Jill Dando

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGW2OGFDUZg

Presenter Jill Dando 'tried to get bosses to investigate alleged paeodphile ring inside the BBC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY3sQo6Vv6w

[YetholmHibee]

http://thecolemanexperience.wordpress.com/2014/07/01/princess-diana-jill-dando-pervs-at-the-palace-and-the-jimmy-savile-connection/

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?247684-Mental!-Jimmy-Savile-was-friends-with-Peter-Sutcliffe-photo-and-blog&p=3796369&viewfull=1#post3796369

Doesnt prove anything, but the rumour has been doing the rounds for a while. Makes you wonder why they've waited till now to act.

Eh think there has been a series of show trials to keep other news off the headlines. Things like the NOTW trial, for example, or the number of dogs pooing in the Dawson Park.

(Chicken is gay slang for young boys, in case anybody doesn't get the connection). There was an article in the Courier about it, in case you are asking.

[NAE NOOKIE]

http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/jill-dando-murdered-by-state-to-keep.html?m=1

Good chance this is nonsense but could there be a ring of truth to it? Rumours of influential paedophile rimgs are hardly new in Britain. Holly Greig anyone?

Who can say there is any truth in that or not.

One thing is for sure. Anybody who thinks that certain parts of the 'establishment' and security services in this country wouldn't go to extreme lengths to protect their interests is being very very optimistic.

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://thecolemanexperience.wordpress.com/2014/07/01/princess-diana-jill-dando-pervs-at-the-palace-and-the-jimmy-savile-connection/

Amongst the evidence, is a picture of Saville with Sir Cliff. If that means anything, then we better start tracking down the surviving Beatles, Rolling Stones, and Monkees.

Mentalist sites like these are no help at all and just make it easier for the bad people to call people cranks.

The minute people start bringing Diana into it, you kind of get the feeling that you might well be dealing with:


” The sick, the lame and the dispossessed were grieving last night for the woman who gave them hope in a world of despair.

Sorry, there could be truth in this, but its hard to believe tbh.

[Phil D. Rolls]

http://google-law.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/jill-dando-murdered-by-state-to-keep.html?m=1

Good chance this is nonsense but could there be a ring of truth to it? Rumours of influential paedophile rimgs are hardly new in Britain. Holly Greig anyone?

Sorry, I'm not being smart, but I thought there was serious doubt over whether Holly Greig ever existed?