Sportsound 6:10 pm 15/01/14 - Gaz & Deeks Q'S

[DanHFC1875]

BBC Sportsound ‏@bbcsportsound (https://twitter.com/bbcsportsound)21m (https://twitter.com/bbcsportsound/status/423414530958700544)
RT @bbckennymac (https://twitter.com/bbckennymac): #BBCSportsound (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BBCSportsound&src=hash) 6.10 @HibernianFCClub (https://twitter.com/HibernianFCClub) fans - Q's to me for Derek Riordan and Garry O'Connor live with @GrahamSpiers (https://twitter.com/GrahamSpiers) #Hibs (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hibs&src=hash)

[GreenLake]

BBC Sportsound ‏@bbcsportsound (https://twitter.com/bbcsportsound)21m (https://twitter.com/bbcsportsound/status/423414530958700544)
RT @bbckennymac (https://twitter.com/bbckennymac): #BBCSportsound (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BBCSportsound&src=hash) 6.10 @HibernianFCClub (https://twitter.com/HibernianFCClub) fans - Q's to me for Derek Riordan and Garry O'Connor live with @GrahamSpiers (https://twitter.com/GrahamSpiers) #Hibs (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Hibs&src=hash)




Q: Derek Riordan, do you think that HMFC are cheats?

A: Yer damn skippy!

[keep the faith]

Should be decent. Its on now but i wont hear it. Am i right in thinking you can listen later on a podcast?

[GreenCastle]

On now...:aok:

[carnoustiehibee]

"Do you have sympathy for hearts derek?"

"NO"

Brilliant deek

[Potty78]

Riordan ha. Any sympathy for hearts? No he said:)

[GreenCastle]

"Do you have sympathy for hearts derek?"

"NO"

Brilliant deek

:faf:

[seanshow]

:faf:

proper leg-end deeks, tell it how it is :)

[cabbageandribs1875]

proper leg-end deeks, tell it how it is :)


or legend even :dunno: scathcel is a Leg-end :agree:

[Famous Fiver]

Best bit of radio I've ever heard on Sportsound

Garry ' Do you have sympathy for Hearts' 'Yes, but they spent money they didn't have.'

Derek 'Do you have sympathy for Hearts? 'No'

Brilliant, just pure brilliant Thanks, Deek. Thank you.

[Billy Whizz]

Both players talk excitedly about their time at Hibs.
Wish them well

[SteveHFC]

"Do you have sympathy for hearts derek?"

"NO"

Brilliant deek

:faf:

[CallumLaidlaw]

Extremely interesting comments from Garry about Pat Fenlon

[Betty Boop]

What a fantastic listen that was ! Love them both !:greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

didn't realise there were arguments re: bonuses in the dressing room before the SC final game against the grunts, or was it the sellick game ? missed that bit

[B.H.F.C]

Extremely interesting comments from Garry about Pat Fenlon

What was he saying?

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

Extremely interesting comments from Garry about Pat Fenlon

Was going to say the same. True though, tactics were gash.

[Coco Bryce]

Interesting to hear Gary O mention the big bust up in the hotel before that final regarding team selection and bonuses. About time that was out in the open now Fenlon is away.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

didn't realise there were arguments re: bonuses in the dressing room before the SC final game against the grunts, or was it the sellick game ? missed that bit

Hearts game.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Hearts game.


****** great, so we have more than a poor manager to blame for that result then ;( and all because of ****** cash fs

[silverhibee]

Gaz said something along the lines of, the preparation fo the final wasn't the best, Fenlon seemingly kept changing the team in the run up and that in the hotel before the game the team were arguing about bonuses for the final for players in the squad.

[andy1875]

A good listen that, honesty from both Deek and Gaz.

Unrest in the hotel before the SC final about bonuses.

Jesus Christ.

[SteveHFC]

Anyone got a link for it?

[itslegaltender]

Hearts game.

Hadn't heard about the bust up. Never seen any reference on here? Really good interview.

[SteveHFC]

Gaz said something along the lines of, the preparation fo the final wasn't the best, Fenlon seemingly kept changing the team in the run up and that in the hotel before the game the team were arguing about bonuses for the final for players in the squad.

That is pathetic

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

What was he saying?
Saying he was the worst manager hes ever played under. Lost the dressing room etc. Big arguments in the hotel before the final regarding bonuses & changed the team 3 times before it. Bad tactics etc. He also said he never extended his contract because fenlon was manager. Murray & Stack would say the same according to Gaz. Great interview though, hopefully someone will put it up.

[Coco Bryce]

Gaz said something along the lines of, the preparation fo the final wasn't the best, Fenlon seemingly kept changing the team in the run up and that in the hotel before the game the team were arguing about bonuses for the final for players in the squad.

Replace arguing with fighting. Stacky had to be hauled of Ian Murray before he ripped his head off.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Anyone got a link for it?

Will be available as a podcast after 8

[SteveHFC]

Will be available as a podcast after 8

Cheers mate :)

[Inch Hibs]

I trust big Garry when talking about Hibs and he will be telling the truth. Fenlon should have been punted after the final.

[3pm]

Replace arguing with fighting. Stacky had to be hauled of Ian Murray before he ripped his head off.

For what?

[Onion]

Best bit of radio I've ever heard on Sportsound

Garry ' Do you have sympathy for Hearts' 'Yes, but they spent money they didn't have.'

Derek 'Do you have sympathy for Hearts? 'No'

Brilliant, just pure brilliant Thanks, Deek. Thank you.

Pity they weren't a bit more savvy/articulate/credible. Great platform to put across some solid reasons why they deserve little sympathy. Instead, sound like couple of headless chickens.

[Dunderhall]

Follow this link after 8 for the podcast.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/scotfoot

[Inch Hibs]

For what?

Exactly neither where near the squad so why would they be arguing and whys it not been mentioned before?

[Inch Hibs]

Pity they weren't a bit more savvy/articulate/credible. Great platform to put across some solid reasons why they deserve little sympathy. Instead, sound like couple of headless chickens.

They are footballers from schemes not university graduates ffs.

[silverhibee]

Anyone got a link for it?

Will be up later tonight for you to listen to Steve. :aok:

[judas]

I trust big Garry when talking about Hibs and he will be telling the truth. Fenlon should have been punted after the final.

I totally agree. I was annihilated on here for saying this in the weeks following the defeat.

[Golden Bear]

That is pathetic

It is pathetic but it's time to move on and forget about the dismal Fenlon days.

[Coco Bryce]

For what?

Over player bonuses.

[Inch Hibs]

I totally agree. I was annihilated on here for saying this in the weeks following the defeat.

Wasn't here at the time mate but he should have been. He was an alright guy but a clueless part time manager and if Garry, who played under McLeish, Mowbray and good managers down South says he was clueless then I believe him. Along with the bag of sweeties sherade not sacking Fenlon and making a statement for the disgrace of a final was another massive Petrie mistake. At no time after did Fenlon look like he was turning it around either. Signing random players for the sake of it and not having a scooby where to play them.

[Stax]

Pity they weren't a bit more savvy/articulate/credible. Great platform to put across some solid reasons why they deserve little sympathy. Instead, sound like couple of headless chickens.
Aye because sportsound is known for articulate and well thought out journalism...:rolleyes:

[Coco Bryce]

I totally agree. I was annihilated on here for saying this in the weeks following the defeat.

Me also. The **** that went on under Fenlon was unbelievable.

[Inch Hibs]

Over player bonuses.

Why would either get a bonus if stack was injured and Murray nowhere near the team? Why would they be arguing with each other? Sure they would have been arguing both with the loan pricks like Matt Doherty starting the final?

[Hibee Ryan]

Know we'll never know the in's and out's of it but why was Stacky bothered about it? He was injured for the final IIRC

[JJP]

Over player bonuses.

Doesn't make sense, Stack was out with an injury.

[Leith Green]

Doesn't make sense, Stack was out with an injury.

Maybe stack felt he deserved cash too, think he played up to and inc the semi??

[Leith Green]

Murray being club captain maybe thought differently, think the captain deals with bonuses etc

[itslegaltender]

Maybe squad players were getting frozen out of bonuses if not in final line up?

[matty_f]

They should have won the f*****g game and argued about the bonus afterwards. Idiots.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Murray being club captain maybe thought differently, think the captain deals with bonuses etc



sorry but i doubt that very much, the captain is a football player not a financier

[Coco Bryce]

Doesn't make sense, Stack was out with an injury.

Exactly! He wasn't going to get the same bonuses as other players because of this, even though he played every game leading up to the final. It was a complete shambles, they all found out the day before the game.

[Inch Hibs]

They should have won the f*****g game and argued about the bonus afterwards. Idiots.

Your obviously forgetting the shower of tossers we had in the side that couldn't give a crap about the club or the fact it was the biggest match in most our lives. No danger Garry, Leigh or McPake would have been arguing over it and I can see why Murray would be going radge at the ****s that where as a hibee and club captain.

[Coco Bryce]

Murray being club captain maybe thought differently, think the captain deals with bonuses etc

Yes. Spot on. I also thought this was strange.

[Inch Hibs]

Exactly! He wasn't going to get the same bonuses as other players because of this, even though he played every game leading up to the final. It was a complete shambles, they all found out the day before the game.

So stack was unhappy and kicking up **** before the final and Murray was telling him where to go. Sounds about right.

[Onion]

Exactly! He wasn't going to get the same bonuses as other players because of this, even though he played every game leading up to the final. It was a complete shambles, they all found out the day before the game.

Sounds like a bunch of players who knew they were in for a beating, and were squabbling over what they could get out of it before it all went tits up. Not the best prep for the biggest game in their careers (even though many didn't realise it was at the time).

[Leith Green]

sorry but i doubt that very much, the captain is a football player not a financier

Think ull find that the captain does the dealing on behalf of the squad, read this in quite a few players biographys.. Bonuses and tickets etc

[matty_f]

Your obviously forgetting the shower of tossers we had in the side that couldn't give a crap about the club or the fact it was the biggest match in most our lives. No danger Garry, Leigh or McPake would have been arguing over it and I can see why Murray would be going radge at the ****s that where as a hibee and club captain.

Not forgetting that at all, to be fair. Just hammers home quite how bad the attitudes of some of those players were. To think we have a team fighting about a bonus they've not got yet while the yams managed to stay United despite not even getting their wages, never mind bonuses.

That's despicable.

[Coco Bryce]

Sounds like a bunch of players who knew they were in for a beating, and were squabbling over what they could get out of it before it all went tits up. Not the best prep for the biggest game in their careers (even though many didn't realise it was at the time).

Stacky was sticking up for others and thought all bonuses should be equally shared. Murray thought otherwise.

[JJP]

Interesting that Garry says he turned down the offer to extend his deal with us when Fenlon claimed that they didn't offer to extend the contract because Garry had started using drugs again mid season and his form suffered. Someone's not telling the truth.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think its ridiculous we have the squad arguing about bonuses the week of our cup final, this should all be sorted way before this.

Petrie is to blame for this, he should have this terms for this scenario sorted at the start of every season.

I thought he was supposed to be an accountant?

[cabbageandribs1875]

i'm starting to feel quite nauseous thinking that they greedy ****s were more interested in lining there durty greedy pockets instead of some professional pride in our great club...sickening, truly sickening

[Inch Hibs]

Not forgetting that at all, to be fair. Just hammers home quite how bad the attitudes of some of those players were. To think we have a team fighting about a bonus they've not got yet while the yams managed to stay United despite not even getting their wages, never mind bonuses.

That's despicable.

Yep. Rotten to the core. This will change now thank Sauzee. Onwards and upwards can you imagine Terry and Mo allowing that?

[Heisenberg]

Pat Fenlon is a part time manager who couldnt make the step up. Not surprised to hear stuff like this tbh. He tried his best but it wasnt good enough. As for the players arguing over bonus money before the cup final...What a bunch of utter dicks.

[Inch Hibs]

Stacky was sticking up for others and thought all bonuses should be equally shared. Murray thought otherwise.


Why would Murray, who wasn't in the squad argue the case when it meant him getting less?

[Inch Hibs]

Interesting that Garry says he turned down the offer to extend his deal with us when Fenlon claimed that they didn't offer to extend the contract because Garry had started using drugs again mid season and his form suffered. Someone's not telling the truth.

Fenlon.

[Onion]

I think its ridiculous we have the squad arguing about bonuses the week of our cup final, this should all be sorted way before this.

Petrie is to blame for this, he should have this terms for this scenario sorted at the start of every season.

I thought he was supposed to be an accountant?

Biggest game in the club's History. Could have offered the whole squad £200,000 a man as a win bonus. Win and the club would have been flying and set up for the next 10 years, lose and it cost us nowt.

How difficult a decision was that ?

[Andy74]

Fenlon emptied most of those losers over what happened that season and the final.

Garry O was one of those laughing after the game.

Sorry but credibility wise Garry O is not someone who's word I'd take as the whole truth!

[Jonnyboy]

i'm starting to feel quite nauseous thinking that they greedy ****s were more interested in lining there durty greedy pockets instead of some professional pride in our great club...sickening, truly sickening

I wonder if the fight was more about those not involved in the Final getting an equal share rather than the mass brawl some seem to think took place?

Regardless, it's bang out of order that players stooped so low on the eve of such a big occasion. Their mind set, plus the horrendous tactics of their manager contributed massively to the embarrassing outcome IMO

[Inch Hibs]

Fenlon emptied most of those losers over what happened that season and the final.

Garry O was one of those laughing after the game.

Sorry but credibility wise Garry O is not someone who's word I'd take as the whole truth!


Fenlon also brought in the majority of the loosers and replaced them other losers.

[blackpoolhibs]

I wonder if the fight was more about those not involved in the Final getting an equal share rather than the mass brawl some seem to think took place?

Regardless, it's bang out of order that players stooped so low on the eve of such a big occasion. Their mind set, plus the horrendous tactics of their manager contributed massively to the embarrassing outcome IMO

John, surely any well run club should have this type of scenario accounted for before a ball is kicked every season?

So much for round one and so on, i'm just not getting why its become a problem so close to the game?:confused:

[Andy74]

Fenlon also brought in the majority of the loosers and replaced them other losers.

Not really. Also note McPakes recent comments. Dressing room was the worst he had ever walked into. That was sorted out.

Blaming Fenlon for it is pathetic.

There's plenty to be critical of but let's keep it sensible.

[carnoustiehibee]

Not really. Also note McPakes recent comments. Dressing room was the worst he had ever walked into. That was sorted out.

Blaming Fenlon for it is pathetic.

There's plenty to be critical of but let's keep it sensible.

Fenlon did bring most of that final team in

[Inch Hibs]

Not really. Also note McPakes recent comments. Dressing room was the worst he had ever walked into. That was sorted out.

Blaming Fenlon for it is pathetic.

There's plenty to be critical of but let's keep it sensible.

Was the majority of the side that played in the final not signed by Fenlon?

6 out the starting 11 - 8 out of the 14 used.

If it wasn't the fault of Fenlon and the ***** he brought to the club, who's fault was it?

Mark Brown?
Lewis's?
Leigh's?
Garry's?

It was Fenlons fault and ***** like Kubjabi who he signed on a 2 year deal and wasters like Doherty and Soares he brought to the club.

A side gets hummiliated in a final the manager gets the blame, from math preparation to how the team is set out and what players are picked on the day.

To say it wasn't Fenlons fault is pathetic.

[Onion]

Stacky was sticking up for others and thought all bonuses should be equally shared. Murray thought otherwise.

If they were squabbling over money, then the problem lies with the Hibs management (Fenlon, Petrie et al) who clearly FAILED miserable to explain the significance of the match and what RICHES would come to any Hibs player associated with a Hibs cup win in 2012. Sounds like these Hibs chumps had no idea what a win would mean to them. You would have hoped that some of them would have worked it out, but blame lies with management - terrible.

[Inch Hibs]

Not really. Also note McPakes recent comments. Dressing room was the worst he had ever walked into. That was sorted out.

Blaming Fenlon for it is pathetic.

There's plenty to be critical of but let's keep it sensible.


How was it sorted out? We brought in even bigger tossers like Matt Doherty!

[blackpoolhibs]

Was the majority of the side that played in the final not signed by Fenlon?

6 out the starting 11 - 8 out of the 14 used.

If it wasn't the fault of Fenlon and the ***** he brought to the club, who's fault was it?

Mark Brown?
Lewis's?
Leigh's?
Garry's?

It was Fenlons fault and ***** like Kubjabi who he signed on a 2 year deal and wasters like Doherty and Soares he brought to the club.

A side gets hummiliated in a final the manager gets the blame, from math preparation to how the team is set out and what players are picked on the day.

To say it wasn't Fenlons fault is pathetic.


You are wasting your time.

[B.H.F.C]

Fenlon emptied most of those losers over what happened that season and the final.

Garry O was one of those laughing after the game.

Sorry but credibility wise Garry O is not someone who's word I'd take as the whole truth!

What does he have to gain by making something like that up a couple of years on?

Fenlon did empty a lot of them. Bit he'd brought a few of them in in the first place. Then he went on to replace them with more crap who stumbled to more embarrassments.

[silverhibee]

John, surely any well run club should have this type of scenario accounted for before a ball is kicked every season?

So much for round one and so on, i'm just not getting why its become a problem so close to the game?:confused:

Things must have been changed by someone at the last moment.

Would that have been Murray. :dunno:

[MWHIBBIES]

Fenlon emptied most of those losers over what happened that season and the final.

Garry O was one of those laughing after the game.

Sorry but credibility wise Garry O is not someone who's word I'd take as the whole truth!This exactly, O'Connor is an idiot and was a big part of why we were so bad that season and should be ashamed of his antics, Fenlon on the other hand took over the club in an awful state, kept us up and got us to the cup final, I know who I believe.

[Kato]

How was it sorted out? We brought in even bigger tossers like Matt Doherty!

It's not as though we're lumbered with him.

For me Fenlon's only, but vital, failing was that he couldn't join his midfield up with his forwards.

He was tickety-boo bar tactics.

[Inch Hibs]

You are wasting your time.

Yeah, I should know considering the other threads mate but the final still makes my blood boil as does the amount of supporters we lost because of that and because Fenlon was still there. See what we think of Billy Brown, that's they pink erses with wee Paddy.

[Inch Hibs]

It's not as though we're lumbered with him.

For me Fenlon's only, but vital, failing was that he couldn't join his midfield up with his forwards.

He was tickety-boo bar tactics.

He was pass the ball to Leigh and hope like **** he does something tactics.

[B.H.F.C]

It's not as though we're lumbered with him.

For me Fenlon's only, but vital, failing was that he couldn't join his midfield up with his forwards.

He was tickety-boo bar tactics.

And results

[Inch Hibs]

This exactly, O'Connor is an idiot and was a big part of why we were so bad that season and should be ashamed of his antics, Fenlon on the other hand took over the club in an awful state, kept us up and got us to the cup final, I know who I believe.

Garry's vital goals not only got us to the final but made sure we didn't go down but you bash on mate. If he says Fenlon was worse than CC that's saying something.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I wonder if the fight was more about those not involved in the Final getting an equal share rather than the mass brawl some seem to think took place?

Regardless, it's bang out of order that players stooped so low on the eve of such a big occasion. Their mind set, plus the horrendous tactics of their manager contributed massively to the embarrassing outcome IMO



i've managed to blank that game from memory fairly easily jb and not once have i even watched ANY high(or low)lights of any part of the game, and that includes the assault by painter black on sparky, or the penalty kick when the foul took place 40 yards outside the box, i honestly couldn't even tell you who scored the cheats 4th/5th goals, indeed i couldn't even name our own team, all i remember is loanee players that couldn't give a toss about professional pride were playing instead of home-grown players getting a game, players who knew exactly what is was all about for our club (spoony springs to mind) having said that, as mentioned earlier, even o'connor was laughing/joking after the game finished :(



p.s. and yep, i know wotherspoon form hadn't been all that great in the games leading up to the final

[Viva_Palmeiras]

At least a 10 pager...
FFS do we never learn as a club to learn the lessons of recent history?
Professionals?

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

What a bunch of fannies. Clowns like Doherty and Soares will never play in a bigger game in their puffs yet they seemed to think they were above Hibs. Bell-ends.

[Kato]

And results

....correct, one leads to the other.

[Onion]

What does he have to gain by making something like that up a couple of years on?

Fenlon did empty a lot of them. Bit he'd brought a few of them in in the first place. Then he went on to replace them with more crap who stumbled to more embarrassments.

Not the biggest Fenlon fan, but as I recall the guy was FORCED to bring in a lot of loan/temps in a an effort to shore up the utter shambles left by Calderwood. Fenlon's number 1 priority was survival and a bunch of temps/loans managed to do that. The Cup was final was completely unexpected - probably for Fenlon and the players. A lot of them were not expected to be at Hibs beyond the end of the season, so I can kind of understand how they got distracted by money/bonuses. That no excuse through. The management should have had that sorted !

[The_Todd]

Biggest game in the club's History. Could have offered the whole squad £200,000 a man as a win bonus. Win and the club would have been flying and set up for the next 10 years, lose and it cost us nowt.

How difficult a decision was that ?

200k a man?

There's already one club in Edinburgh gone bust thanks to some absurd remuneration. I'm quite glad we've not followed the down that particular path.

[Jonnyboy]

John, surely any well run club should have this type of scenario accounted for before a ball is kicked every season?

So much for round one and so on, i'm just not getting why its become a problem so close to the game?:confused:

I agree G and if it wasn't it bloody well should have been

[Coco Bryce]

Things must have been changed by someone at the last moment.

Would that have been Murray. :dunno:

Yes. Murray done the dirty.

[Inch Hibs]

200k a man?

There's already one club in Edinburgh gone bust thanks to some absurd remuneration. I'm quite glad we've not followed the down that particular path.

Easter Road would have been a sell out every week if we won that match.

[Jonnyboy]

Not the biggest Fenlon fan, but as I recall the guy was FORCED to bring in a lot of loan/temps in a an effort to shore up the utter shambles left by Calderwood. Fenlon's number 1 priority was survival and a bunch of temps/loans managed to do that. The Cup was final was completely unexpected - probably for Fenlon and the players. A lot of them were not expected to be at Hibs beyond the end of the season, so I can kind of understand how they got distracted by money/bonuses. That no excuse through. The management should have had that sorted !

Who forced him to do that?

[The Sea-gull]

What G O'C said about Fenlon only confirms that Fenlon was the amateur I thought he was all along. A man of his experience level should never have been near a SPL job. The folk on here who carried on like Fenlon was the next Sir Alex Ferguson must feel right embarrassed now. There was a period where anyone questioning Fenlon's appointment or tenure on here was shot down but history proves it was right to question it. Why would big Gaz lie. For what it is worth, big Gaz is one of the best strikers I have seen play for Hibs. Ok I don't go as far back as the tornados, Joe Baker or the famous 5 but to me he is a hero and a legend of my club. I will remember Pat Fenlon as a poor manager and a loser.

[I'm_cabbaged]

It's not as though we're lumbered with him.

For me Fenlon's only, but vital, failing was that he couldn't join his midfield up with his forwards.

He was tickety-boo bar tactics.

So he was a good manager bar football tactics, tickety-boo manager of what exactly? It like.being an accounts manager bud rubbish with figures!!

[3pm]

What a sorry story.

[Inch Hibs]

What G O'C said about Fenlon only confirms that Fenlon was the amateur I thought he was all along. A man of his experience level should never have been near a SPL job. The folk on here who carried on like Fenlon was the next Sir Alex Ferguson must feel right embarrassed now. There was a period where anyone questioning Fenlon's appointment or tenure on here was shot down but history proves it was right to question it. Why would big Gaz lie. For what it is worth, big Gaz is one of the best strikers I have seen play for Hibs. Ok I don't go as far back as the tornados, Joe Baker or the famous 5 but to me he is a hero and a legend of my club. I will remember Pat Fenlon as a poor manager and a loser.

Close thread fantastic post.

[MWHIBBIES]

Garry's vital goals not only got us to the final but made sure we didn't go down but you bash on mate. If he says Fenlon was worse than CC that's saying something.Garry was a fat waster for most of that season, he was an embarrassment to the club and I hope he never sets foot in ER again. His opinion on Hibs is worthless after he acted like that, he was everything that was wrong with the club at the time.

Fenlon took over an awful awful Hibs team with the mission to keep us up, he done that and got us to a final, yes we lost but he is not solely to blame for that. Our assistant at the time was completely ****ing useless and the majority of the team played like utter *****, even Claros, one of Pats best signings was awful. Even Leigh was awful. That summer Pat binned wasters like Stack and O'Conner and brought in guys who were willing to fight for the team and we improved big style despite a poor middle of the season. This season again a lot of good players were signed and despite not getting the best out of them and leaving which is fair enough he left us in a much much better place than we were when he took over.

Say what you like about Pat, thats your right but IMO there is absolutely NO debate that he left the team in a much better place than when he took over. To say he was worse than Calderwood is embarrassing tbh, there is no comparing what they done for Hibs.

[Onion]

They knew exactly what it meant. They just didn't care.

That's a contradiction. They clearly could not have known, other wise they would have cared. Management's fault.

Even self-centred, callus *******s can usually fathom out what's good for them :greengrin

[Kato]

He was pass the ball to Leigh and hope like **** he does something tactics.


That's what I'm saying.



The club as a whole is in a better, more professional place down to Fenlon including the squad. He'll be remembered for those awful results but the bigger picture will show he did a lot of cleaning up and clearing out and changed a culture that had hung around since Collins jumped ship.

As to the fans who stopped coming, that's their choice. They can blame Fenlon but it remains their decision. Jeez, there was some people saying that wouldn't be going back because Terry "Ipswich Town" Butcher played for Rangers.

[18/03/07]

Hibs players do not get paid win bonus at any stage while they are still in the cup,the money is pooled and it is meant to be split between the squad when the cup run finishes.The captain negotiates appearence and win bonus for league games at the start of the season.So don't know what happened at the hotel that day,some people that know Gary should ask him,or even people with the sources that they know should ask about

[silverhibee]

Not the biggest Fenlon fan, but as I recall the guy was FORCED to bring in a lot of loan/temps in a an effort to shore up the utter shambles left by Calderwood. Fenlon's number 1 priority was survival and a bunch of temps/loans managed to do that. The Cup was final was completely unexpected - probably for Fenlon and the players. A lot of them were not expected to be at Hibs beyond the end of the season, so I can kind of understand how they got distracted by money/bonuses. That no excuse through. The management should have had that sorted !

That really is becoming a .net FACT on here.

[The Sea-gull]

This exactly, O'Connor is an idiot and was a big part of why we were so bad that season and should be ashamed of his antics, Fenlon on the other hand took over the club in an awful state, kept us up and got us to the cup final, I know who I believe.

O'connor was a big part of why we were so bad that season?!?!?! The guy was unfit and had a raft of personal problems but still hit 16 goals. Reason why we were so bad? He is the reason we didn't get relegated and are not potentially sitting in the first division now looking forward to our first derby in two years next season. The reason we were bad that season comes on the shape of calderwood and Fenlon.

[Kato]

To say he was worse than Calderwood is embarrassing tbh, there is no comparing what they done for Hibs.

A total disgrace of man.

[The_Todd]

Easter Road would have been a sell out every week if we won that match.

You seem very sure of that. Sellouts would come from sustained success, not a one-off. If we could have paid an entire squad 200k each to win a trophy we could have just gone mental in the previous transfer window on much better players instead anyway.

[Kato]

So he was a good manager bar football tactics, tickety-boo manager of what exactly? It like.being an accounts manager bud rubbish with figures!!

Is it?

[MWHIBBIES]

O'connor was a big part of why we were so bad that season?!?!?! The guy was unfit and had a raft of personal problems but still hit 16 goals. Reason why we were so bad? He is the reason we didn't get relegated and are not potentially sitting in the first division now looking forward to our first derby in two years next season. The reason we were bad that season comes on the shape of calderwood and Fenlon.He was fat and in trouble with the police.

16 would have been nothing if he was interested all season.

[Mikey09]

Complete and total lack of professionalism all round for me....

MANAGER
PLAYERS
ROD

Incredible a situation could be allowed to arise 24 hours before a game as important as that. I would be raging at this happening a month before the game.
:shocked:

[SanFranHibs]

Pity they weren't a bit more savvy/articulate/credible. Great platform to put across some solid reasons why they deserve little sympathy. Instead, sound like couple of headless chickens.

Unless they are just shuffling their feet !!


Thought GOC was reasonably articulate on the Hearts situation and Billy Brown. And Riordan was honest. I love it !!!

THere was not a platform to put across some solid reasons. They all said in one way or another 'they spent money they did not have and are paying for it now.' What else can they really say about the financial ongoings behind the scenes. No more than us.

And that is all anyone needs to know.

Well done lads !!!

:flag:

"Derek, do you have any sympathy for Hearts?". "No". Can anyone else here put it better? I can't.

[Northernhibee]

G'OC has always been renowned for talking sense all the time. I like the bloke but I'm taking this with a pinch of salt.

[3pm]

Regardless of Fenlon, they pricks should have shown a bit pride in themselves.

I wonder if any of them actually realised how big a game it was. Pricks.

[truehibernian]

My take on tonight - an enjoyable show, but my overriding feelings are sadness that here we have two very talented 30 year old boys, with at least 4 more really good years top class football in them, one with a team languishing at the foot of the Championship and one kicking his heels in frustration at not getting to play - both boys were superb footballers at one time, for a period. It's a travesty that they are where they are football wise - I thought Derek came across well tonight and was honest, fair, and sounded desperate for a wee chance.

GOC on Fenlon - that could have been left with GOC naming Pat as his worst gaffer, the cup final add on should have been kept inhouse for me. As for fights over bonus payments, well, that tells you the characters in the squad at that time - and the respect they had for the manager. All I do know is that after the game, when Pat was hurting badly, some players didn't have the common decency to go back to Easter Road as planned, instead ended up in tantrums with drinkers in Grand Cru, GOC being one of them, and them being asked to leave the premises.

Other players went home and hid under the pillows through embarrassment - funnily enough they are still at the club.

That squad couldn't have given a tuppenny toss - they celebrated failure too often. Some couldn't get away from the ground quick enough to jump on planes and get lifted later that night at night clubs :wink:

Could you see any of the current squad/team, being allowed to party the night away in defeat, or the manager we now have condoning it ?

Good show tonight, just a shame that two brilliant footballers are not at their peak when they should be.

[Onion]

Who forced him to do that?

It was the January window and the club was in free-fall after Calderwood (without question the worst manager Hibs has employed in the last 50 years) had worked his magic. Drastic action was needed and Fenlon took it for our SPL survival. Few complained at the time.

The cup final was a match too far and the Transients were too thick to understand what it all meant.

[hibbymick]

Fenlon emptied most of those losers over what happened that season and the final.

Garry O was one of those laughing after the game.

Sorry but credibility wise Garry O is not someone who's word I'd take as the whole truth!

To be fair Gary does have history of telling porkies so his credibility takes a dip there.

[KeithTheHibby]

What a sorry story.


This. Bad enough we got humped in the final but to find out that we brought some of it on ourselves is disgraceful.

[Jonnyboy]

It was the January window and the club was in free-fall after Calderwood (without question the worst manager Hibs has employed in the last 50 years) had worked his magic. Drastic action was needed and Fenlon took it for our SPL survival. Few complained at the time.

The cup final was a match too far and the Transients were too thick to understand what it all meant.

Got you now :aok: I wrongly assumed you meant the Board had only allowed loan signings

[The Sea-gull]

He was fat and in trouble with the police.

16 would have been nothing if he was interested all season.

But 16 was enough to keep a shambles of a squad in the league. Just. Hate to see where we would have been without him.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Incredible.

Also amazing that none of our in the know guys had the exclusive on this. Wasn't even on the PM board my sources tell me.

[Deansy]

Ah, an argument over the bonuses - THAT'S what made them go up the town right after the game, getting their photos taken (O'Connor included) of them all laughing, joking, knocking back champagne etc.

Having said that, Rod Petrie should've seen to it that the money-side was sorted-out long before the final. The money he (and the other directors) are paid, I'd have thought that basic professionalism was the bare minimum.

[Bobby's Cinema]

What G O'C said about Fenlon only confirms that Fenlon was the amateur I thought he was all along. A man of his experience level should never have been near a SPL job. The folk on here who carried on like Fenlon was the next Sir Alex Ferguson must feel right embarrassed now. There was a period where anyone questioning Fenlon's appointment or tenure on here was shot down but history proves it was right to question it. Why would big Gaz lie. For what it is worth, big Gaz is one of the best strikers I have seen play for Hibs. Ok I don't go as far back as the tornados, Joe Baker or the famous 5 but to me he is a hero and a legend of my club. I will remember Pat Fenlon as a poor manager and a loser.
100% agreed. We were embarrassed time after time under Fenlon. He took further pride out of the club, had lifetime supporters questioning why they bother. That cannot be denied, regardless of what he inherited.

It's not personal. But Fenlon was never, ever up to the job

[Inch Hibs]

Garry was a fat waster for most of that season, he was an embarrassment to the club and I hope he never sets foot in ER again. His opinion on Hibs is worthless after he acted like that, he was everything that was wrong with the club at the time.

Fenlon took over an awful awful Hibs team with the mission to keep us up, he done that and got us to a final, yes we lost but he is not solely to blame for that. Our assistant at the time was completely ****ing useless and the majority of the team played like utter *****, even Claros, one of Pats best signings was awful. Even Leigh was awful. That summer Pat binned wasters like Stack and O'Conner and brought in guys who were willing to fight for the team and we improved big style despite a poor middle of the season. This season again a lot of good players were signed and despite not getting the best out of them and leaving which is fair enough he left us in a much much better place than we were when he took over.

Say what you like about Pat, thats your right but IMO there is absolutely NO debate that he left the team in a much better place than when he took over. To say he was worse than Calderwood is embarrassing tbh, there is no comparing what they done for Hibs.

Staggering. Absolutely staggering.

It was the players, assistants everyone else fault but not wee Paddy.

How do you know his job was to keep us up?

Sorry, Garry and Leigh kept us up and got us to the final despite the ***** Fenlon came to enhance the squad. That and Dunfermline being utterly *****.

[Onion]

My take on tonight - an enjoyable show, but my overriding feelings are sadness that here we have two very talented 30 year old boys, with at least 4 more really good years top class football in them, one with a team languishing at the foot of the Championship and one kicking his heels in frustration at not getting to play - both boys were superb footballers at one time, for a period. It's a travesty that they are where they are football wise - I thought Derek came across well tonight and was honest, fair, and sounded desperate for a wee chance.

GOC on Fenlon - that could have been left with GOC naming Pat as his worst gaffer, the cup final add on should have been kept inhouse for me. As for fights over bonus payments, well, that tells you the characters in the squad at that time - and the respect they had for the manager. All I do know is that after the game, when Pat was hurting badly, some players didn't have the common decency to go back to Easter Road as planned, instead ended up in tantrums with drinkers in Grand Cru, GOC being one of them, and them being asked to leave the premises.

Other players went home and hid under the pillows through embarrassment - funnily enough they are still at the club.

That squad couldn't have given a tuppenny toss - they celebrated failure too often. Some couldn't get away from the ground quick enough to jump on planes and get lifted later that night at night clubs :wink:

Could you see any of the current squad/team, being allowed to party the night away in defeat, or the manager we now have condoning it ?

Good show tonight, just a shame that two brilliant footballers are not at their peak when they should be.

:agree: Agree it is truly sad that DR and GOC have not made more of their careers. Much of that has got to be down to the poor quality of managers and mentors they've had over the years. In saying that, the Hibs squad would have been quite clear about their only priority for the season - keep Hibs in the SPL ! It would have been the focus for the whole club from the minute Calderwood left in October. The Cup Final was always going to be a bonus as we were either unlikely to get there, or we'd meet Celtic. As it happens, Yams fluked their way past Celtic and the final took on a whole new significance. It was next to impossible for Hibs, given where they were and who they employed, to start talking of this being the top priority.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Incredible.

Also amazing that none of our in the know guys had the exclusive on this. Wasn't even on the PM board my sources tell me.

Hmmm indeed. Timeout for me methinks.

[truehibernian]

:agree: Agree it is truly sad that DR and GOC have not made more of their careers. Much of that has got to be down to the poor quality of managers and mentors they've had over the years. In saying that, the Hibs squad would have been quite clear about their only priority for the season - keep Hibs in the SPL ! It would have been the focus for the whole club from the minute Calderwood left in October. The Cup Final was always going to be a bonus as we were either unlikely to get there, or we'd meet Celtic. As it happens, Yams fluked their way past Celtic and the final took on a whole new significance. It was next to impossible for Hibs, given where they were and who they employed, to start talking of this being the top priority.

I also find it hard to believe Nid would worry too much about money and bonuses and go fighting with Stack - Nid bleeds green and there would have been no one wanting to win that game more, and no one more bitterly disappointed in not playing in the game. As for Stack and Nid......I would always have Nid's back there any day of the week :cb:take that

[WindyMiller]

Yes. Murray done the dirty.


Could you please explain what you mean by that?

[MWHIBBIES]

Staggering. Absolutely staggering.

It was the players, assistants everyone else fault but not wee Paddy.

How do you know his job was to keep us up?

Sorry, Garry and Leigh kept us up and got us to the final despite the ***** Fenlon came to enhance the squad. That and Dunfermline being utterly *****.Fenlon was to blame, not solely. I said this, please read my post before responding to it.

His job was to keep us up because we were relegation candidates? That is hardly rocket science.

Fenlon to blame for all the losses and Garry and Leigh get credit for all the wins, very nice logic, I'm impressed. McPake, a Fenlon signing done more than both of those players to keep us up.

[SanFranHibs]

Would it not be great if it happened and they stayed in the Championship and started banging them in against........er....Hearts !

:flag:

[Pretty Boy]

They should have won the f*****g game and argued about the bonus afterwards. Idiots.

This.

Pretty disgusted that players were more interested in cash than creating history. Sums up a lot that was wrong with that squad of mercenaries.

I always suspected that final meant nothing to too many in that team and Garrys revelations prove it.

[Onion]

200k a man?

There's already one club in Edinburgh gone bust thanks to some absurd remuneration. I'm quite glad we've not followed the down that particular path.

You're taking that a bit too literally. And it would only have been if we won :greengrin And we could have offset a bit of that risk at the bookies :greengrin

[The_Todd]

You're taking that a bit too literally. And it would only have been if we won :greengrin And we could have offset a bit of that risk at the bookies :greengrin

Oops! I'm finding it increasingly difficult to tell with this place who's being serious or not.

[Pretty Boy]

That really is becoming a .net FACT on here.

Indeed.

We weren't 11th when Fenlon took over but that's where we finished.

I find it hard to believe a manager who took over a side in 8th, I think, would be told his main task was to avoid relegation regardless of how poor the squad was.

[Weir7]

sorry but i doubt that very much, the captain is a football player not a financier

Hibs Capt agrees bonuses directly with Petrie. In the past they also take senior pros into the meeting. This is agreed before season starts.

[Inch Hibs]

Indeed.

We weren't 11th when Fenlon took over but that's where we finished.

I find it hard to believe a manager who took over a side in 8th, I think, would be told his main task was to avoid relegation regardless of how poor the squad was.

Especially with Dunfermline in the league and the wage bill we had.

No danger his job was to keep us in the league. Because we where still in a battle in April under a manager in there from November it seems that way.

You only have to look at what Butcher has done to show what a good manager can do with average players. You won't see Terry sign 6 loans and a Kubjabi on a 2 year deal this January trying to make the top 6.

[Hero76]

Hope Deeks gets a club and soon the guys a legend in my eyes . Such s waste of talent

[Gus]

Not read the whole thread but all this stuff about bonuses annoys me and speaks volumes for the modern day footballers.

These guys could of gone down legends and had we won they wouldnt need a bonus as they wouldnt need to buy a drink in Leith ever again

[Weir7]

Know we'll never know the in's and out's of it but why was Stacky bothered about it? He was injured for the final IIRC

Money! Players in final if we won would have made more than him! His behaviour resulted in now new contract and punted.

Fenlon was spot on with that.

[Inch Hibs]

Fenlon was to blame, not solely. I said this, please read my post before responding to it.

His job was to keep us up because we were relegation candidates? That is hardly rocket science.

Fenlon to blame for all the losses and Garry and Leigh get credit for all the wins, very nice logic, I'm impressed. McPake, a Fenlon signing done more than both of those players to keep us up.

No we weren't we where 8th and he had money in jan to improve us. Did he improve us? No!

Fenlon was ***** from start to finish and Terry now is showing him up for the joker he was.

Under Calderwood we where a shambles, Fenlon came in, still a shambles for 2 years, Terry has come in using the same players, no longer a shambles. These are facts. There is no way We employe Fenlon to keep us in the league, no way. Dunfermline were utterly ***** and we had a better squad than them by miles. His job was to improve us that year and he failed.

[Squealing pig]

Was a great listen, well played gaz and deek :) ledgends

[tamig]

Replace arguing with fighting. Stacky had to be hauled of Ian Murray before he ripped his head off.

I heard the programme tonight and I've read through this thread before replying to your post.

A lot of guys seem to have taken your comments as gospel.

I'd just like to make it clear that what you've said was never mentioned by GOC tonight.

I take it you got this info from elsewhere - or did you just not hear what GOC said about Murray and Stacky (as he put it) and made it up?

[SanFranHibs]

Was a great listen, well played gaz and deek :) ledgends

One of those Chinese managers.

Diplomatic and smart.

:greengrin

[stoneyburn hibs]

Really is gutting to hear about Bonusgate, shambles.

[B.H.F.C]

No we weren't we where 8th and he had money in jan to improve us. Did he improve us? No!

Fenlon was ***** from start to finish and Terry now is showing him up for the joker he was.

Under Calderwood we where a shambles, Fenlon came in, still a shambles for 2 years, Terry has come in using the same players, no longer a shambles. These are facts. There is no way We employe Fenlon to keep us in the league, no way. Dunfermline were utterly ***** and we had a better squad than them by miles. His job was to improve us that year and he failed.

That's the way I feel. We will hear shortly that we were higher in the league when Fenlon left than we are now. Yet it'll be Calderwoods fault that Fenlon finished in 11th despite being 8th when he came in. We are well rid of both of them. Calderwood just didn't care. Despite the fact Fenlon did he delivered the most embarassing results anyone has.

[Ronniekirk]

Was a great listen, well played gaz and deek :) ledgends
Are they promoting a book or something Seem to be flavour of the month in media just now .

[Onion]

Indeed.

We weren't 11th when Fenlon took over but that's where we finished.

I find it hard to believe a manager who took over a side in 8th, I think, would be told his main task was to avoid relegation regardless of how poor the squad was.

Calderwood was a complete disaster of a manager. We knew it in the summer and by Oct even the Board had accepted it. The whole club, squad, team was in free fall when he left - 8th going on 11th with nothing to stop the rot. Fenlon was far from ideal and by January was scrambling for results. The only feasible approach was to replace a lot of the crud with short term loan players, which he did. IMHO by end January, staying up was the only priority.

[Pete]

I take it one of you has a time machine. Why else would you be looking for who to blame for something that you can't change?

It's pointless because things have changed. The new regime would never allow anything like that to happen and they certainly wouldn't advocate wasting energy talking about the past.

The future is where it's at...and it looks bright.

[greenpaper55]

I mentioned long ago in another post that the players and directors went back to ER after THAT final and had a party, it had been arranged beforehand so they carried on with it even after getting humped ! , can you imagine that under TB ?. Some serious questions about the goings on behind the scenes

[Weir7]

I mentioned long ago in another post that the players and directors went back to ER after THAT final and had a party, it had been arranged beforehand so they carried on with it even after getting humped ! , can you imagine that under TB ?. Some serious questions about the goings on behind the scenes

Petrie or Farmer should have cancelled it as all emplyees were invited

[Inch Hibs]

That's the way I feel. We will hear shortly that we were higher in the league when Fenlon left than we are now. Yet it'll be Calderwoods fault that Fenlon finished in 11th despite being 8th when he came in. We are well rid of both of them. Calderwood just didn't care. Despite the fact Fenlon did he delivered the most embarassing results anyone has.


Very good point.

If we finish 7th (at worse) it will no doubt be only one place higher than Paddy left us yet Fenlon "improved" us by finishing 3 places lower than what Calderwood had us and he was only brought in to miraculously save us from relegation.

Mental.

IMO

Fenlon was better than CC but it wasn't hard. He wasn't brought in to save is from relegation tho, he just continued to have us being ***** and brought a load of ***** to the club. Claros apart, even then I think Butcher, like Robertson would get more out Claros.

Fenlon was then kept in a job by Leigh Griffiths wanting to play for the club and was ****** when he left.

Butcher is a proper football manager and shows him up by miles.

[Pretty Boy]

I mentioned long ago in another post that the players and directors went back to ER after THAT final and had a party, it had been arranged beforehand so they carried on with it even after getting humped ! , can you imagine that under TB ?. Some serious questions about the goings on behind the scenes

Tbh that's not unusual after finals.

I bumped into Mixu and Freddie Arpinion after the 2001 final and both of them had had a fair bit too drink. Of course over the course of the season that team had done us proud so it's not a totally accurate comparison.

[Tyler Durden]

My tuppence worth

1. To suggest Fenlon's objective when taking over was to avoid relegation is a nonsense. For those who believe it was, does he really deserve any credit for it, having taken to the penultimate game to secure SPL status?
2. Ian Murray has previously given his view on how badly Fenlon handled the build up to the final. Clearly the team didn't appreciate the magnitude. This point about bonuses is just another example, surely the management team would get it sorted early to avoid this type of scenario.
3. Fenlons tactics. Does anyone find it difficult to believe GOC here? Fenlons tactics on the day were awful and he'd learned nothing from his 2 previous limp defeats to Hearts, both in the 6 months prior. Ian Black ran the show again and it took Fenlon 42 minutes to change things. Going in at HT only 1 down was incredibly lucky. Our midfield diamond neither got near Black or provided any support to full backs. Both of whom were hopeless.
4. His tactics the year after were almost as bad and the shape of the team all week apparently involved Caldwell only for him to be told on the day of the game he wasn't starting. So he didn't even appear to learn from his mistakes.

Worst Hibs manager in my lifetime.

[Inch Hibs]

I mentioned long ago in another post that the players and directors went back to ER after THAT final and had a party, it had been arranged beforehand so they carried on with it even after getting humped ! , can you imagine that under TB ?. Some serious questions about the goings on behind the scenes

From what I hear Butcher was threatening the players that they weren't getting back on the bus from Aberdeen and smashed up 2 iPads belonging to the players after the 1-0 loss there never mind allowing the players a party.

Griffiths, Mcpake and Murray where all not at that party either.

[green.and.white]

Good listen from GOC and Derek, very honest at points and great to hear that Garry seems to be motivated to get his life as well as his career back on track. Would LOVE Derek to join him at Morton and them to bang them in against the yams next season (if they still exist) :thumbsup:.

Regarding the bonuses etc, embarrassing and Fenlon's whole time here was just humiliating. If it wasn't for Griffiths, as this season showed, he was utterly dreadful at managing a football team.

[Coco Bryce]

Incredible.

Also amazing that none of our in the know guys had the exclusive on this. Wasn't even on the PM board my sources tell me.

I think you'll find its not worth posting ITK info on this site. As 99% of the people on here shoot you down and accuse you of being a yam.

Not worth all the **** to be honest :rolleyes:

[truehibernian]

I mentioned long ago in another post that the players and directors went back to ER after THAT final and had a party, it had been arranged beforehand so they carried on with it even after getting humped ! , can you imagine that under TB ?. Some serious questions about the goings on behind the scenes

Not how I recall events - the team went back to Easter Road and Pat himself was tearful and shell shocked. Some stayed for pleasantries and a drink however it was not a 'party' - some players didn't go to ER and some decided to go up town and got turfed out of 2 pubs in the George Street area at around 9pm-ish. Grand Cru being the first one I think. The manager asked them to leave (players) due to the players being wound up by punters and retaliating verbally and creating friction in the place. They kept on boozing elsewhere. That's what I recall.

I then recall spending a very nice long weekend down south with a rather attractive lady and not having to witness the parade :aok: I was over the final by 4pm next day :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

My tuppence worth

1. To suggest Fenlon's objective when taking over was to avoid relegation is a nonsense. For those who believe it was, does he really deserve any credit for it, having taken to the penultimate game to secure SPL status?
2. Ian Murray has previously given his view on how badly Fenlon handled the build up to the final. Clearly the team didn't appreciate the magnitude. This point about bonuses is just another example, surely the management team would get it sorted early to avoid this type of scenario.
3. Fenlons tactics. Does anyone find it difficult to believe GOC here? Fenlons tactics on the day were awful and he'd learned nothing from his 2 previous limp defeats to Hearts, both in the 6 months prior. Ian Black ran the show again and it took Fenlon 42 minutes to change things. Going in at HT only 1 down was incredibly lucky. Our midfield diamond neither got near Black or provided any support to full backs. Both of whom were hopeless.
4. His tactics the year after were almost as bad and the shape of the team all week apparently involved Caldwell only for him to be told on the day of the game he wasn't starting. So he didn't even appear to learn from his mistakes.

Worst Hibs manager in my lifetime.

Agree with all of that except the worst manager bit. Calderwood wins that by a mile. PF was out of his depth but CC treated Hibs like 5hit


I think you'll find its not worth posting ITK info on this site. As 99% of the people on here shoot you down and accuse you of being a yam.

Not worth all the **** to be honest :rolleyes:

True, very true :agree:

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm not saying what O'Connor said did not happen, but i'm a bit surprised this story did not come out at the time?

I tend to think its not happened, or was nowhere near as bad as been mooted.

[Pretty Boy]

My tuppence worth

1. To suggest Fenlon's objective when taking over was to avoid relegation is a nonsense. For those who believe it was, does he really deserve any credit for it, having taken to the penultimate game to secure SPL status?
2. Ian Murray has previously given his view on how badly Fenlon handled the build up to the final. Clearly the team didn't appreciate the magnitude. This point about bonuses is just another example, surely the management team would get it sorted early to avoid this type of scenario.
3. Fenlons tactics. Does anyone find it difficult to believe GOC here? Fenlons tactics on the day were awful and he'd learned nothing from his 2 previous limp defeats to Hearts, both in the 6 months prior. Ian Black ran the show again and it took Fenlon 42 minutes to change things. Going in at HT only 1 down was incredibly lucky. Our midfield diamond neither got near Black or provided any support to full backs. Both of whom were hopeless.
4. His tactics the year after were almost as bad and the shape of the team all week apparently involved Caldwell only for him to be told on the day of the game he wasn't starting. So he didn't even appear to learn from his mistakes.

Worst Hibs manager in my lifetime.

Your 3rd point is a good one and I said similar dozens of times after that final.

We played Hearts twice before that final and were well outplayed both times, to try the same thing again was unforgiveable. Stevie Wonder could see with that Hearts team if you stopped Ian Black you upset their whole structure. We let him run the show 3 times in a row, I would look a good player with 20 yards off space to play in.

Anyway I've got involved in these arguments again after promising myself I wouldn't. The future is looking bright and that final is done so I'm out.

[Itsnoteasy]

Best bit of radio I've ever heard on Sportsound

Garry ' Do you have sympathy for Hearts' 'Yes, but they spent money they didn't have.'

Derek 'Do you have sympathy for Hearts? 'No'

Brilliant, just pure brilliant Thanks, Deek. Thank you.

I heard interview,surprised GO said yes. DR should have said GIRFUY. :agree:

[chrisski33]

I'm not saying what O'Connor said did not happen, but i'm a bit surprised this story did not come out at the time?

I tend to think its not happened, or was nowhere near as bad as been mooted.
Thats cos it probably didnt happen. Im sure it would have been let out the bag alot sooner.
whilst oconnor banged in the goals for hibs in the past I wouldnt believe a word he says look at the trouble hes been in with the police, drugs etc. He was having difficulty with drugs when in birmingham vut came back up here and got into trouble here and is now trying to blame someone else for him not getting a new deal at hibs. His antics after the final says it all!

As for deeks class comment on Hearts!

[Stevie Reid]

Just as a matter of interest, Hibs were 9th and one point off bottom place when Calderwood was sacked - Dunfermline were level with us.

Before Fenlon's first game in charge, two games later, we were 9th, and two points off bottom place - Dunfermline were level with us. Inverness were bottom, and 16 games had been played.

We finished 8 points above Dunfermline, but ICT finished 6 points above us.

[Hermit Crab]

20 pager

[Itsnoteasy]

I heard interview,surprised GO said yes. DR should have said GIRFUY. :agree:

He even said Billy judas Brown was a good coach at HFC :confused:

[Coco Bryce]

I'm not saying what O'Connor said did not happen, but i'm a bit surprised this story did not come out at the time?

I tend to think its not happened, or was nowhere near as bad as been mooted.

Garry O'Connor only briefly mentioned what happened BH, he never went into great detail. Regardless of what Garry did or didn't say I know for a fact that it did happen. It was common knowledge in footballing circles after it happened.

[Tyler Durden]

[QUOTE=Jonnyboy;3872085]Agree with all of that except the worst manager bit. Calderwood wins that by a mile. PF was out of his depth but CC treated Hibs like 5hit

I expect I'm in the minority here. Whilst Fenlon seemed a good sort by all accounts and tried his best, the results on his watch are the worst in our history.

Calderwood showed a lack of respect for the club but personally I think he was playing a game and Petrie's actions exacerbated a bad situation. I don't think Calderwood would have overseen the type of defeats Fenlon suffered but it's all hypothetical.

Its this loss in particular which sticks in the craw and Fenlon will be remembered for.

[blackpoolhibs]

Garry O'Connor only briefly mentioned what happened BH, he never went into great detail. Regardless of what Garry did or didn't say I know for a fact that it did happen. It was common knowledge in footballing circles after it happened.

Thats fair enough matey, i'm just surprised something like this never got out? :confused:

[The Sea-gull]

He even said Billy judas Brown was a good coach at HFC :confused:

To be fair, ludicrous as that statement sounds, G O'C would have a better idea of how good a coach BB is/was from a player's point of view than any of us would.

[Inch Hibs]

I'm not saying what O'Connor said did not happen, but i'm a bit surprised this story did not come out at the time?

I tend to think its not happened, or was nowhere near as bad as been mooted.

After all that Garry had said in the last few weeks about changing etc why would he lie to be shot down by a couple of ex players and look like a tit again?

The hibees and players that gave a shot would want to have kept it in house the others couldn't have cared less.

[Jonnyboy]

[QUOTE=Jonnyboy;3872085]Agree with all of that except the worst manager bit. Calderwood wins that by a mile. PF was out of his depth but CC treated Hibs like 5hit

I expect I'm in the minority here. Whilst Fenlon seemed a good sort by all accounts and tried his best, the results on his watch are the worst in our history.

Calderwood showed a lack of respect for the club but personally I think he was playing a game and Petrie's actions exacerbated a bad situation. I don't think Calderwood would have overseen the type of defeats Fenlon suffered but it's all hypothetical.

Its this loss in particular which sticks in the craw and Fenlon will be remembered for.

That's my beef. He didn't care about Hibs. Despite his failings, I think Fenlon cared. He was just not up to the task

[blackpoolhibs]

After all that Garry had said in the last few weeks about changing etc why would he lie to be shot down by a couple of ex players and look like a tit again?

The hibees and players that gave a shot would want to have kept it in house the others couldn't have cared less.

Can you explain why a story this big never got out, there were enough players in that team who didnt give a toss about the club, i cant understand how this never became common knowledge? :confused:

[RIP Bestie]

i've managed to blank that game from memory fairly easily jb and not once have i even watched ANY high(or low)lights of any part of the game, and that includes the assault by painter black on sparky, or the penalty kick when the foul took place 40 yards outside the box, i honestly couldn't even tell you who scored the cheats 4th/5th goals, indeed i couldn't even name our own team, all i remember is loanee players that couldn't give a toss about professional pride were playing instead of home-grown players getting a game, players who knew exactly what is was all about for our club (spoony springs to mind) having said that, as mentioned earlier, even o'connor was laughing/joking after the game finished :(



p.s. and yep, i know wotherspoon form hadn't been all that great in the games leading up to the final
This. 100%.

[Inch Hibs]

To be fair, ludicrous as that statement sounds, G O'C would have a better idea of how good a coach BB is/was from a player's point of view than any of us would.

If Garry is saying BB was a good coach and Fenlon was the worst ever manager whilst they where both in charge of the side I can't start to imagine how much of a complete shambles the club must have been. Did Fenlon get on with BB? Was there a split in the team in terms of that?

Surely it should be a management team, incredible.

[B.H.F.C]

[QUOTE=Tyler Durden;3872107]

That's my beef. He didn't care about Hibs. Despite his failings, I think Fenlon cared. He was just not up to the task

I can understand that point of view. Fenlons results hurt me more than Calderwood not caring though. I knew Calderwood would be away at some point but Pats results are in the history books.

[Coco Bryce]

Money! Players in final if we won would have made more than him! His behaviour resulted in now new contract and punted.

Fenlon was spot on with that.

:agree:

[Inch Hibs]

Can you explain why a story this big never got out, there were enough players in that team who didnt give a toss about the club, i cant understand how this never became common knowledge? :confused:

I've no idea mate. I'm sure in the coming weeks the media will ask Nid, Leigh, Mcpake and others about the story though considering the reaction to this. I'm sure a lot of us know hibs players or friends of friends. This story will be an aye or no by the end of tomorrow.

[Coco Bryce]

Can you explain why a story this big never got out, there were enough players in that team who didnt give a toss about the club, i cant understand how this never became common knowledge? :confused:

Maybe would have come out if we had won :rolleyes:

[blackpoolhibs]

Maybe would have come out if we had won :rolleyes:

:greengrin That was never gonna happen with that bunch of tossers. :boo hoo:

[Stevie Reid]

Fenlon: -

P 89 W 31 D 19 L 39 - win ratio 35% loss ratio 44%

Calderwood: -

P 49 W 12 D 11 L 26 - win ratio 24% loss ratio 53%

[Coco Bryce]

I've no idea mate. I'm sure in the coming weeks the media will ask Nid, Leigh, Mcpake and others about the story though considering the reaction to this. I'm sure a lot of us know hibs players that dad or friends or friends. This story will be an aye or no by the end of tomorrow.

Is Garry not mentioning on national radio good enough for you? :greengrin

[Bleeds green]

Maybe would have come out if we had won :rolleyes:

I think the 'Murray done the dirty' is u talkin through yur hole, if what is said is true and players playing In final were set to get more money than players who were squad players then Murray (being nowhere near the team) would have been doing the dirty on himself! I see no reason why the guys who played in the final should have got more bonus IF they had won and stack should not have made an issue of it the night before such a huge game

[Bobby's Cinema]

[QUOTE=Tyler Durden;3872107]

That's my beef. He didn't care about Hibs. Despite his failings, I think Fenlon cared. He was just not up to the task
:agree: Correct

[tamig]

Is Garry not mentioning on national radio good enough for you? :greengrin
Are you talking about the bonus row or the fight between Murray and Stack - which GOC never mentioned but you did?

[silverhibee]

Indeed.

We weren't 11th when Fenlon took over but that's where we finished.

I find it hard to believe a manager who took over a side in 8th, I think, would be told his main task was to avoid relegation regardless of how poor the squad was.


:agree:

He took over Hibs in November, he had a window to improve the squad and move up the league, instead we moved downwards, no way did Petrie say to Fenlon when he got the job, "you need to avoid relegation". if it was Feb/March time he got the job and were in that position then yes it would be to avoid relegation but it wasn't it was November, still more than half the season to go and folk think his main aim was to stay up. Really.

[weonlywon6-2]

Thats a good listen.
Curious what he says about Brown being a great motivator.
If this is the case that lot could fall even further !

[seanshow]

or legend even :dunno: scathcel is a Leg-end :agree:

No he's a bell-end :na na:

[Coco Bryce]

I think the 'Murray done the dirty' is u talkin through yur hole, if what is said is true and players playing In final were set to get more money than players who were squad players then Murray (being nowhere near the team) would have been doing the dirty on himself! I see no reason why the guys who played in the final should have got more bonus IF they had won and stack should not have made an issue of it the night before such a huge game

Aye, I just completely made it all up. Personally I dont give a **** what you think and it's because of people like you that people never post these stories on here in the first place when they find out about them.

It's really just no worth all the **** that you get in return.

[Saturdays Hero]

Aye, I just completely made it all up. Personally I dont give a **** what you think and it's because of people like you that people never post these stories on here in the first place when they find out about them.

It's really just no worth all the **** that you get in return.

Do you know if it was just Stack or were others involved in the argument ??

[OsloHibs]

Gary should've just kept his mouth shut. No need to bring this up.

[Hibs90]

Gary should've just kept his mouth shut. No need to bring this up.

:agree:

[Northernhibee]

Gary should've just kept his mouth shut. No need to bring this up.

Yep.

[Andy74]

:agree:

He took over Hibs in November, he had a window to improve the squad and move up the league, instead we moved downwards, no way did Petrie say to Fenlon when he got the job, "you need to avoid relegation". if it was Feb/March time he got the job and were in that position then yes it would be to avoid relegation but it wasn't it was November, still more than half the season to go and folk think his main aim was to stay up. Really.

Come on now. Teams around us had games in hand. We'd just lost at home to Dunfermline. The dressing room was a disaster. His job that year was to keep us up.

Given when he left we were 5 points off second I presume you will argue that second is Butchers clear target?

No?

[hibeerealist]

[QUOTE=Andy74;3872172]Come on now. Teams around us had games in hand. We'd just lost at home to Dunfermline. The dressing room was a disaster. His job that year was to keep us up.

Given when he left we were 5 points off second I presume you will argue that second is Butchers clear target?

HAS PF LEFT YOU BEHIND AS HIS APOLOGIST!!

Read a number of your posts now an you are DEFINATELY in a minority of one maybe two - anybody else out there agree with this dope?

[Saturdays Hero]

Gary should've just kept his mouth shut. No need to bring this up.

And his nostril's.......as big a waste of talent as I've ever seen,if ever a case of too much too young he's yer man,a player of his ability possibly (if he gets fit 1st) turning out for Morton,disgrace!!

[Gustavo Fring]

[QUOTE=Andy74;3872172]Come on now. Teams around us had games in hand. We'd just lost at home to Dunfermline. The dressing room was a disaster. His job that year was to keep us up.

Given when he left we were 5 points off second I presume you will argue that second is Butchers clear target?

HAS PF LEFT YOU BEHIND AS HIS APOLOGIST!!

Read a number of your posts now an you are DEFINATELY in a minority of one maybe two - anybody else out there agree with this dope?

dont agree but the guys entitled to an opinion

[leggeto]

Whatever happened in the lead up to that game I think matters not,we still would have lost,it was a cup final against your rivals,shouldn't have been any need for anyone to find motivation for it,anyway hope to see them both playing and scoring soon absolute legends of the green in my eyes

[chrisski33]

Is Garry not mentioning on national radio good enough for you? :greengrin

Isnt for me and alot of others

[Swedish hibee]

I found the interview sad. Not about Garry's not needed rants over Hibs, but how 2 players are now washed up at 30.

[stevejordan]

One man to blame Petrie:flag:

[EskbankHibee]

I found the interview sad. Not about Garry's not needed rants over Hibs, but how 2 players are now washed up at 30.

Yeah, it is sad. Although I cannot believe with Morton sitting bottom of the championship, that Kenny Shiels won't be interested in signing Riordan? He's offered live on air to play for no money. A no brainer surely?!

[Beefster]

That's my beef. He didn't care about Hibs. Despite his failings, I think Fenlon cared. He was just not up to the task

In a decade or two's time, Calderwood will be remembered for being pish. Fenlon, on the other hand, will be remembered for being pish and for 1-5, 0-3, 0-7 etc.


Come on now. Teams around us had games in hand. We'd just lost at home to Dunfermline. The dressing room was a disaster. His job that year was to keep us up.

Given when he left we were 5 points off second I presume you will argue that second is Butchers clear target?

No?
I'm doing really well not jumping on it every time you do it but your contradictory use of stats whenever it suits your defence of Fenlon always makes me shake my head.

[WestEndHibee]

One man to blame Petrie:flag:


I think you're a bit behind since you last popped over from howevermanypointsback poormanssteve, Petrie's back in the good books a bit more. I'd pop back with this tired post again when we're on a bit more of a bad run. :aok:

[Thecat23]

[QUOTE=Andy74;3872172]Come on now. Teams around us had games in hand. We'd just lost at home to Dunfermline. The dressing room was a disaster. His job that year was to keep us up.

Given when he left we were 5 points off second I presume you will argue that second is Butchers clear target?

HAS PF LEFT YOU BEHIND AS HIS APOLOGIST!!

Read a number of your posts now an you are DEFINATELY in a minority of one maybe two - anybody else out there agree with this dope?

I've had many a disagreement with Andy74 and it's clear he liked Fenlon a lot. I respect that and fair play he still says what he thinks even if we all disagree.

I don't know Andy74 personally but from reading his posts on other stuff he's defo no "dope" mate. Let's not get to wound up he's entitled to his opinion as much as anyone.

[Deek01]

Is there a link for the interview?

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

Can't believe anyone would think Fenlon was worse than Calderclown. Both poor managers but Fenlon at least gave a ****. I still shudder when I think about the utter malaise and contempt shown towards OUR club by Calderwood! Makes me furious still. He had a significantly worse win ratio as well. A truly horrible time.

[Carheenlea]

Is there a link for the interview?

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/scotland/scotfoot/scotfoot_20140115-1911a.mp3

[c31]

under fenlon i stopped going, he was that bad so I agree with garry that he was the worst boss I have seen in charge of us in over 45 years. just out of his depth and should have been sacked after that cup final.

[B.H.F.C]

Can't believe anyone would think Fenlon was worse than Calderclown. Both poor managers but Fenlon at least gave a ****. I still shudder when I think about the utter malaise and contempt shown towards OUR club by Calderwood! Makes me furious still. He had a significantly worse win ratio as well. A truly horrible time.

I shudder more when I think about 5-1 and 7-0.

[Stevie Reid]

In 2010-11 Calderwood was in charge for 30 league games - we lost 17 of them.

In 2011-12 Calderwood was in charge for 14 league games - we lost 7 of them.

Out of those 44 league games, we won 11. His loss ratio in SPL games was 55%, win ratio was a pitiful 25%

We couldn't score in two Scottish Cup games against a 3rd tier side, and were knocked out.

Between 20 November 2010 and 30 January 2011, we played 12 games - drawing 3 and losing 9, and scoring 5 goals. In January 2011 we played 7 games, losing 6 and drawing one (Ayr at home) and didn't score in any of them.

I don't believe that Fenlon's remit was simply to keep us in the league, but let's not be under any illusions as to the massive downward trajectory we were on under Calderwood - THE worst manager we have ever had.

[smurf]

Big Gaz did a good job for us in two spells. His assessment of Fenlon sounds pretty accurate. However, I sadly recall footage of Gaz pretty jolly leaving the stadium that day. He wasn't hurting. We were only a job to him and he didn't really take much pride in it.

[Sir David Gray]

"Do you have sympathy for hearts derek?"

"NO"

Brilliant deek

I know this thread has moved on a little over the past few hours but I've been working tonight so only just seen it now and this has really cheered me up after being miserable all day at my work with the cold!

Gaun' yersel' Deek! :aok:

[NOLA]

so noones been on twitter asking stacky WTF :greengrin pretty sure there will be more fallout from tonights interview, sad really its come down to whos pisher and whos lieing.

[givescotlandfreedom]

I wonder what Kenny Shiels will make of GOC throwing Fenlon under the bus. At least unlike Garry I always thought Fenlon was giving his all.

[Inch Hibs]

I wonder what Kenny Shiels will make of GOC throwing Fenlon under the bus. At least unlike Garry I always thought Fenlon was giving his all.

Shiels, will see GOC as being honest. GOC gave a lot more to our club than Fenlon. :agree:

[silverhibee]

Come on now. Teams around us had games in hand. We'd just lost at home to Dunfermline. The dressing room was a disaster. His job that year was to keep us up.

Given when he left we were 5 points off second I presume you will argue that second is Butchers clear target?

No?

Sorry Andy but i just cannot believe that, and if you do fair enough, do you really think that is what the board said to Fenlon when he became manager, "you need to keep us up".

Sorry not buying that.

[Inch Hibs]

so noones been on twitter asking stacky WTF :greengrin pretty sure there will be more fallout from tonights interview, sad really its come down to whos pisher and whos lieing.

Nobody is telling lies. Garry gave his honest assessment that was the shambles of a club under Fenlon. If Fenlon wanted to protect his side by saying otherwise fair play. Let him bash on with 2 recognised forwards with one playing usually and 600 midfield players :greengrin

[leggeto]

Sorry Andy but i just cannot believe that, and if you do fair enough, do you really think that is what the board said to Fenlon when he became manager, "you need to keep us up".

Sorry not buying that.

I believe that's the best he could have done after the mess calderwood left us,he kept us up just but it never really happened for him with his sideways,sideways,sideways pass back then hoof football

[GreenCastle]

This whole thing is a sad state of affairs.

1 - GOC and Riordan were very good players for our club but off the pitch they really didn't conduct themselves too well. To refer to GOC as a legend is over the top - if he was such a legend why was he acting like an idiot the evening after the cup final? Why did he mess Hibs around with the several opportunities they gave to help him get over his problems?

2 - True story or not from GOC - these players were always going to lose that cup final - the yams had the better team but our players really just didn't understand the importance to Hibs fans of the game - plus the limited knowledge Fenlon had - he was tactically out thought by the yams manager. He also picked some players in that game who just weren't good enough. It actually would have been a travesty had those loan players won it - I would rather win it with a group of players who know what Hibs means to us the fans.

3 - To air your dirty laundry in public isn't very professional - the truth is important but somethings are best just forgotten about and you move on.

4 - It does re-iterate what a mess we as a club have been in the last few years (choosing the wrong manager several times!) - It makes me even more thankful to have TB now in charge as I doubt a lot of what went on would be tolerated today but does make me angry knowing we have been giving some dud mangers and had to sit through games where often you were leaving angry about the players / game on show. I don't expect to win every game but at least it looks like the players are trying their best for the fans.

5 - Fenlon getting even longer to stay at the club - he should have been gone ages ago and we would be having a league cup semi final to look forward to plus possibly an unbeaten derby record this season including the 1st game of the season.

[Spike Mandela]

Just listened to that and I got a question asked.:aok:

[Bad Habits]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25754630

Pretty brutal from Garry to be honest, shows a lack of class imo opinions like that are best kept private.

[Bad Habits]

Can admins delete please, didn't see it on the other thread

[B.H.F.C]

Just listened to that and away from the Fenlon stuff there was some decent stuff, the way they spoke about their time in the Mowbray team.

Fair play to Garry for saying what he thinks.

[Spike Mandela]

It was an interesting interview with Garry and Deeks tonight, great listening.

It is fine being open, honest as you see it and not resorting to the typical bland responses you mostly here footballers give but any form of media training should have taught him to dodge that question or at the very least not to elaborate on why he chose Fenlon.

[Hibercelona]

It was an interesting interview with Garry and Deeks tonight, great listening.

It is fine being open, honest as you see it and not resorting to the typical bland responses you mostly here footballers give but any form of media training should have taught him to dodge that question or at the very least not to elaborate on why he chose Fenlon.

Why should questions like these be dodged?

I hate the general idea that things like this have to be kept secretive from the very people who are forking over the cash in the first place.

We were paying for a guy that couldn't even get the basics right.

[EskbankHibee]

Anyone know what Riordan said to the press that annoyed Petrie? He said he phoned RP and offered to play for free but was knocked back for this reason

[Liberal Hibby]

We were paying for a guy that couldn't even get the basics right.

Aye and Fenlon wasn't too much cop either...

[HoboHarry]

Why should questions like these be dodged?

I hate the general idea that things like this have to be kept secretive from the very people who are forking over the cash in the first place.

We were paying for a guy that couldn't even get the basics right.
The criticisms would be a lot easier to believe if they were being made by a player who hadn't turned his own career into a viewable car-crash.

[Hibercelona]

Aye and Fenlon wasn't too much cop either...

If the manager can't get the basics right, then it's going to drastically effect the players.

To think.... we'll go down in history as once having Fenlon and Brown as our managerial partnership. :bitchy:

[GraniteCityHibs]

If the manager can't get the basics right, then it's going to drastically effect the players.

To think.... we'll go down in history as once having Fenlon and Brown as our managerial partnership. :bitchy:


Could be worse. Could have been the team who had Locke and Brown as their partnership.

[Hibercelona]

The criticisms would be a lot easier to believe if they were being made by a player who hadn't turned his own career into a viewable car-crash.

Perhaps so. But I don't doubt what O'Connor says, despite his own personal downfall over the years.

We were a complete car crash before Butcher came in, and there were numerous people at the club who should never have been anywhere near it.

[JJP]

Anyone know what Riordan said to the press that annoyed Petrie? He said he phoned RP and offered to play for free but was knocked back for this reason

I think it was due to him saying in an interview that Griffiths had single handedly kept Fenlon in a job.

[Northernhibee]

Perhaps so. But I don't doubt what O'Connor says, despite his own personal downfall over the years.

We were a complete car crash before Butcher came in, and there were numerous people at the club who should never have been anywhere near it.

I'd disagree with that entirely.

I did actually wonder if G'OC got and kept himself clean, got himself fit and banging in goals at Morton if there's any chance we'd see him at Hibs again but I think he's just blown it in one moment of madness - all he had to say was "Naw, I dinnae think that's fair to answer that question" or similar and they'd have moved on but IMO you just don't speak ill of previous managers if they were respectful towards the club and players in public even if you didn't rate them that much - Pat was always respectful towards Hibs.

[J-C]

Anyone know what Riordan said to the press that annoyed Petrie? He said he phoned RP and offered to play for free but was knocked back for this reason

Basically said the team were sheite except Griffiths who kept PF in a job due to his goals.

[FitbaFolkKen]

You only have to look at what Butcher has done to show what a good manager can do with average players. You won't see Terry sign 6 loans and a Kubjabi on a 2 year deal this January trying to make the top 6.

Because Fenlon had already done all the dirty work and left a decent squad, unlike calderwood.

[FitbaFolkKen]

[QUOTE=Andy74;3872172]Come on now. Teams around us had games in hand. We'd just lost at home to Dunfermline. The dressing room was a disaster. His job that year was to keep us up.

Given when he left we were 5 points off second I presume you will argue that second is Butchers clear target?

HAS PF LEFT YOU BEHIND AS HIS APOLOGIST!!

Read a number of your posts now an you are DEFINATELY in a minority of one maybe two - anybody else out there agree with this dope?

To an extent yup, some of the exaggeration on here is ridiculous at times.

[FitbaFolkKen]

In 2010-11 Calderwood was in charge for 30 league games - we lost 17 of them.

In 2011-12 Calderwood was in charge for 14 league games - we lost 7 of them.

Out of those 44 league games, we won 11. His loss ratio in SPL games was 50%, win ratio was a pitiful 25%

We couldn't score in two Scottish Cup games against a 3rd tier side, and were knocked out.

Between 20 November 2010 and 30 January 2011, we played 12 games - drawing 3 and losing 9, and scoring 5 goals. In January 2011 we played 7 games, losing 6 and drawing one (Ayr at home) and didn't score in any of them.

I don't believe that Fenlon's remit was simply to keep us in the league, but let's not be under any illusions as to the massive downward trajectory we were on under Calderwood - THE worst manager we have ever had.

:top marks

[--------]

A model professional giving a clear and balanced insight into what went wrong at Hampden?

I don't think so.

One of the things that was killing me that afternoon was the sight of a great fat waster in the forward line who clearly wasn't bothering his vast backside.

And who was so upset with everything he was out on the town that evening, apparently feeling no pain.

Whatever the verdict on Pat Fenlon will be, Garry O'Connor isn't the one to deliver it - not after the way he carried on for most if the season he's talking about.

[Baader]

Best kept to himself I agree. Did not rate Fenlon and like Garry O but he is not exactly in a position to be highlighting other people's failings... Not everything in football should be made public - not how a true professional behaves.

[AgentDaleCooper]

pat fenlon's stats aren't all that bad - he has a better win ratio than yogi, mixu, miller and obviously calderwood (by a good 10%).

IMO, he steadied the ship, albeit with two truly horrific blips. he was never going to take us further than that, but he assembled a half-decent squad for terry to start off with. i don't think we ebbed as lowly with him as we did under calderwood performance wise (with two exceptions).

ultimately, i don't regret us having hired him, as the stage has been set for butcher to truly sort us out. further more, he cared about hibs. calderwood, on the other hand, was never worthy to walk through the doors in the first place.

it's a shame that fenlon will always be remembered for those two games - but he will, and his record is severely compromised as a result. even that, however, doesn't make him worse than calderwood, who was a shambles of a manager, and a shambles of a man.

[macd123]

6
For starters garry played under colin calderwood so no chance pat was the worst.

This is just a personal dig because pat said he got rid of some bad pros. He also said he couldn't believe the lack of fight by people claiming to be hibs fans in that cup final.

Fair enough to respond but for now he needs to just get fit, keep his head down and be humble for a while. He s not really in a position to be pointing fingers of blame at the moment.

[(((Fergus)))]

Perhaps so. But I don't doubt what O'Connor says, despite his own personal downfall over the years.

We were a complete car crash before Butcher came in, and there were numerous people at the club who should never have been anywhere near it.

I'd also disagree with that. We were an abandoned Vauxhall Nova, burnt out and rusting on a piece of wasteland.

[Forza Fred]

A model professional giving a clear and balanced insight into what went wrong at Hampden?

I don't think so.

One of the things that was killing me that afternoon was the sight of a great fat waster in the forward line who clearly wasn't bothering his vast backside.

And who was so upset with everything he was out on the town that evening, apparently feeling no pain.

Whatever the verdict on Pat Fenlon will be, Garry O'Connor isn't the one to deliver it - not after the way he carried on for most if the season he's talking about.

:top marks

[500miles]

Garry might not think much of Fenlon, but then again, he didn't do much for Pat. Griffiths became our best striker in decades, and believed in Pat wholeheartedly.

I'm not saying Fenlon was perfect, but publicly crucifying him was low and O'Connor should have been more considered in his answer. But then again, as with most things he does, Garry probably isn't doing it out of malice, he is just empty between the ears.

[Jim44]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25754630

Pretty brutal from Garry to be honest, shows a lack of class imo opinions like that are best kept private.

Exactly. Pat Fenlon may not have lived up to our hopes and expectations but it wasn't for a lack of effort. The guy did his best. On the other hand his critic has through choice behaved in manner, foreign and unacceptable to most of us. O'Connor lost a lot of people's respect long ago and his unnecessary criticism of Fenlon was unfortunate to say the least.

[weonlywon6-2]

I dont see much of problem with gary saying what he did about Fenlon.He was asked a question,hesitated a bit and then said it was fenlon and his reasons why,dont see much wrong with that,it wasnt a rant and lets be honest with ourselves,is he wrong in what he said about fenlons training and tactics,its what most on here moaned about.

I enjoyed listening to the two of them and i thought deeks came over well ,best of luck to the pair of them,its only because they were good at hibs that we are discussing this now

[Beefster]

Exactly. Pat Fenlon may not have lived up to our hopes and expectations but it wasn't for a lack of effort. The guy did his best. On the other hand his critic has through choice behaved in manner, foreign and unacceptable to most of us. O'Connor lost a lot of people's respect long ago and his unnecessary criticism of Fenlon was unfortunate to say the least.

This isn't solely directed at you but I don't get the "Fenlon tried his best" mitigation. I couldn't care less whether he spent 2 hours at the club every day or 22 hours.

He subjected us to sub-Williamson turgefests, spread apathy at the club and utterly failed to use his large (in an SPL context) budget to produce on the pitch. Ultimately, that's what he'll be remembered for.

[Hibrandenburg]

Gary O criticising Pat F is a bit like Anne Widdecombe calling Nigela Lawson a fat ugly Heffer. In other words to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[easty]

I'd disagree with that entirely.

I did actually wonder if G'OC got and kept himself clean, got himself fit and banging in goals at Morton if there's any chance we'd see him at Hibs again but I think he's just blown it in one moment of madness - all he had to say was "Naw, I dinnae think that's fair to answer that question" or similar and they'd have moved on but IMO you just don't speak ill of previous managers if they were respectful towards the club and players in public even if you didn't rate them that much - Pat was always respectful towards Hibs.

For Pat to be respectful of Hibs he would have removed himself from the club after the worst result on our history. Failing that he should have been respectful of the club and left after giving us our worst ever European humping.

I've no problem with what O'Connor said. It backs up my thoughts on Fenlon. He was clueless and a ***** manager. Just because GOC messed up his own career doesn't mean his thoughts on others in the game are any less valid.

[malagahibby]

It's all about options and if that's his then fine.
I do know however that Garry wasn't very stable at that time and Pat did spend a lot of time and faith in him.
I think we are in agreement that that stuff should remain private ,
in the past -let's not give it too much attention please.:flag:

[Auckland Hibs]

Garry might not think much of Fenlon, but then again, he didn't do much for Pat. Griffiths became our best striker in decades, and believed in Pat wholeheartedly.

I'm not saying Fenlon was perfect, but publicly crucifying him was low and O'Connor should have been more considered in his answer. But then again, as with most things he does, Garry probably isn't doing it out of malice, he is just empty between the ears.

Agree 100%

It's all a bit tasteless from GOC.

[itslegaltender]

All this pussy footing around Fenlon. At the very least he should have walked after the Malmo game. That night was an absolute shambles in some ways worse than the Cup final. Too many times you get interviews with current footballers who play the game of not being controversial. If more players and managers spoke like Gary last night, maybe some of the standards of football and coaching in our game wouldnt be tolerated.