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Billychaotic182
10-01-2014, 11:06 PM
Really hope I'm wrong In saying this as I do like his work rate but as a footballer he is starting to remind me of Colin Nish. I feel like he could play all night and not score. What does everyone else think? Again really hope I'm proved wrong and he starts rattling them in but as thing stands he's not good enough and we need better

Mark79
10-01-2014, 11:09 PM
Cant seem to trap a ball. Numerous times it comes to him and he cant control it.

Agree lots of running but its either running deep for it or in the channels but sadly no where that takes him near goal.

Wotherspiniesta
10-01-2014, 11:10 PM
How many chances did he get tonight? One half chance?

I like Collins. I think with the right service, he'll score.

SMAXXA
10-01-2014, 11:11 PM
Not his greatest game tonight but I do like him and think he will come good. He's just turned 23 and plays with a lot more maturity in his game. I think half the battle is that he's the main striker and spends too much time doing lots of work outside the box down the flanks so he's never going to score lots like that.

Personally I'm not going to let tonight cloud my judgment too much as I think most of the team were poor, we just need to stick with them and see where it takes us.

Would really like to see him up top with a better strike partner, no slate on Cummings or Heff but I feel like James has to do a lot of their running and work at times. Say a Kenny miller who runs about daft and works his socks of.

btw I get the Nish comment as he spent a fair bit of tonight on his erchie which reminded me of CN aswell

Sir David Gray
10-01-2014, 11:11 PM
I think he's a decent player but I don't think he's a natural goalscorer, which is what we're badly needing.

One Day Soon
10-01-2014, 11:13 PM
Really hope I'm wrong In saying this as I do like his work rate but as a footballer he is starting to remind me of Colin Nish. I feel like he could play all night and not score. What does everyone else think? Again really hope I'm proved wrong and he starts rattling them in but as thing stands he's not good enough and we need better

I'm as yet unconvinced by him but then again I felt exactly the same way about GOC in his first few games.

CallumLaidlaw
10-01-2014, 11:16 PM
How many chances did he get tonight? One half chance?

I like Collins. I think with the right service, he'll score.

With you 100% and can't believe he's starting to be made a scapegoat. This guy gives everything for the jersey. He gets knocked all over the place, and I bet you not many defenders enjoy playing against him. He has scored goals in his career, he's still young. If he's given service, and is given a bit of coaching on his in box positioning, he will be a big player for us.

kaimendhibs
10-01-2014, 11:19 PM
Funny old game. Collins was rightly praised on Sunday and appears to be scapegoat tonite. I like him, grafts like a Trojan and I believe with decent service will score loads


Sent from my iphone

B.H.F.C
10-01-2014, 11:19 PM
Work rate is excellent but that's 4 goals in about 20 games. We need to start seing more attacking threat from him.

Billychaotic182
10-01-2014, 11:21 PM
With you 100% and can't believe he's starting to be made a scapegoat. This guy gives everything for the jersey. He gets knocked all over the place, and I bet you not many defenders enjoy playing against him. He has scored goals in his career, he's still young. If he's given service, and is given a bit of coaching on his in box positioning, he will be a big player for us.

By no means was I trying to make him scapegoat. Just feel like he can't score. He plays with his back to goal and doesn't turn he he gets it. Just expect better considering how poor the league is at the moment.

jeffers
10-01-2014, 11:23 PM
Posted on another thread, I think he is honking and not just on tonight's performance. I realise it's all about opinions but someone who is saying he is a good player please tell me what his attributes are ? I think he is slow, has poor control, wins nothing in the air and his finishing is woeful.

Del Boy
10-01-2014, 11:27 PM
Not the worst player but for money we paid I'd expect better

#FromTheCapital
10-01-2014, 11:28 PM
A poor mans Kenny Miller. Loads of hard work but not enough goals. I do like Collins though and it helps that one of his few goals was against the gorgie tramps.

#FromTheCapital
10-01-2014, 11:31 PM
Not the worst player but for money we paid I'd expect better

You're right in a sense because 200k to hibs is a decent amount, but down south that would almost be seen as a free transfer so I wouldn't judge him based on a price tag.

Jones28
10-01-2014, 11:32 PM
He's a workhorse. And if Terry can find someone with a bit more creativity and a natural goal scorer to partner Collins then I think the goals will come.

I actually cannot remember Collins having too many clear cut chances that he has totally sclaffed.

Billychaotic182
10-01-2014, 11:37 PM
He's a workhorse. And if Terry can find someone with a bit more creativity and a natural goal scorer to partner Collins then I think the goals will come.

I actually cannot remember Collins having too many clear cut chances that he has totally sclaffed.

He had one bad miss hit tonight but I get what your saying. I just feel he is too much like nish. Don't know if that's just me though

Danderhall Hibs
10-01-2014, 11:38 PM
He's a workhorse. And if Terry can find someone with a bit more creativity and a natural goal scorer to partner Collins then I think the goals will come.

I actually cannot remember Collins having too many clear cut chances that he has totally sclaffed.

I've been defending the boy all season and thought he was mom on Sunday but he's definitely not a great finisher - 2 obvious chances; 1 v Aberdeen at ER when Langfield slipped and in injury time in the derby.

He works hard and chases but he doesn't look like a goal scoring threat.

He has scored more than Heffernan though and in only a few more games?

He's got a lot to work on.

Wotherspiniesta
10-01-2014, 11:38 PM
Posted on another thread, I think he is honking and not just on tonight's performance. I realise it's all about opinions but someone who is saying he is a good player please tell me what his attributes are ? I think he is slow, has poor control, wins nothing in the air and his finishing is woeful.

Disagree with all of that, barring perhaps his control, which could do with some work. Like you say, it's all about opinions, but I think he's developing into a handful for defenders, he's a lot fitter than he was at the start of the season. He's deceptively quick and against Hearts, I've never seen a Hibs forward win that many fouls in one game. Agree with the poster who mentioned about Kenny Miller being a good partner for him.

jeffers
10-01-2014, 11:46 PM
Disagree with all of that, barring perhaps his control, which could do with some work. Like you say, it's all about opinions, but I think he's developing into a handful for defenders, he's a lot fitter than he was at the start of the season. He's deceptively quick and against Hearts, I've never seen a Hibs forward win that many fouls in one game. Agree with the poster who mentioned about Kenny Miller being a good partner for him.

Fair enough. I'd like to see Kenny Miller at ER too, whether it is to partner Collins or not. I will never criticise Collins for effort, but re my other points for his size he wins nothing in the air and so far his finishing is terrible. I know it wasn't 200,000 we spent on him, but we did spend money and as it stands imo it is looking like money wasted.

Ronniekirk
10-01-2014, 11:49 PM
Really hope I'm wrong In saying this as I do like his work rate but as a footballer he is starting to remind me of Colin Nish. I feel like he could play all night and not score. What does everyone else think? Again really hope I'm proved wrong and he starts rattling them in but as thing stands he's not good enough and we need better
Trust your own judgement its clear as day .others latter in thread say he only had one chance but in other games he has missed several chances before he has scored.He doesn't look comfortable and isn't a natural finisher in early parts of game he harries opposition well and helps us pin opposition in own half like first twenty minutes tonight but very little comes from it his goals ratio for games played is not what we need as Heff isn't getting any younger so need to be planning for next season and two strikers as handling is now out frame with Cummings and Harris ahead of him.but neither ready to play week in week out and be able to win us games We are conceding many so two goals a game could see us winning more than we loose

Onceinawhile
10-01-2014, 11:50 PM
Works hard, decent at holding the ball up and not bad at bringing other players into the game.

His reactive finishing is good too, (partick and hearts goals) but he just isn't an out and out goalscorer.

VivaPalmeiras
10-01-2014, 11:51 PM
In his comments before the match Terry stated he's looking to develop the partnership between Collins and Heff. Collins works for the team as he showed when he made the time to draw the defender away for Lewis to score his goal.
Defence solid, a revitalised midfield creativity up next combined with getting the shooting boots out up top....

SeanWilson
10-01-2014, 11:55 PM
James Collins will turn good. I see a player in him somewhere every week and believe it's only a matter of time before we have a player that can hold up play, see a pass and score a poachers goal. Stick in James.

CallumLaidlaw
10-01-2014, 11:57 PM
Some stats that people might find interesting:

Billy McKay had scored 13 goals in 74 appearances for Northampton Town (League 2) before signing for ICT. In his first season with the club, he only managed 3 goals in 22 appearances. He has a (league) career total of 53 goals in 153 appearances (a goal every 2.88 games)

James Collins had scored 15 goals in 45 appearances for Swindon Town (League 1) before signing for Hibs. He has thus far scored 4 goals in 19 appearances. He has a (league) career total of 47 goals in 147 appearances (a goal every 3.12 games)

Now I know that the past only counts for so much, and there's no guarantee that James Collins will emulate the success of Billy McKay, but I think there's enough proof to dismiss claims that "he's not a natural goalscorer" and that he runs about and offers little else. He's already shown that he can score goals at a level that probably isn't too different from the Scottish Premiership. He is only 23 and has already shown signs that there is a player in him - all that's missing is the sort of prolific form that people were wanting to see in a replacement for Leigh Griffiths. I think it's naive and unfair to expect Collins to be banging them in straight away - our league isn't always the easiest to adjust to, and players like Claros, Roberston and indeed McKay are testament to that. I really think that given the time and service, he'll be a really good quality player for us. I don't expect to happen right away - if we're still having this discussion next season then maybe I'll need to re-evaluate my opinion of him but right now I think he has the potential to be a success for Hibs.

Superb post mate

jeffers
10-01-2014, 11:57 PM
Some stats that people might find interesting:

Billy McKay had scored 13 goals in 74 appearances for Northampton Town (League 2) before signing for ICT. In his first season with the club, he only managed 3 goals in 22 appearances. He has a (league) career total of 53 goals in 153 appearances (2.88 goals per game)

James Collins had scored 15 goals in 45 appearances for Swindon Town (League 1) before signing for Hibs. He has thus far scored 4 goals in 19 appearances. He has a (league) career total of 47 goals in 147 appearances (3.12 goals per game)

Now I know that the past only counts for so much, and there's no guarantee that James Collins will emulate the success of Billy McKay, but I think there's enough proof to dismiss claims that "he's not a natural goalscorer" and that he runs about and offers little else. He's already shown that he can score goals at a level that probably isn't too different from the Scottish Premiership. He is only 23 and has already shown signs that there is a player in him - all that's missing is the sort of prolific form that people were wanting to see in a replacement for Leigh Griffiths. I think it's naive and unfair to expect Collins to be banging them in straight away - our league isn't always the easiest to adjust to, and players like Claros, Roberston and indeed McKay are testament to that. I really think that given the time and service, he'll be a really good quality player for us. I don't expect to happen right away - if we're still having this discussion next season then maybe I'll need to re-evaluate my opinion of him but right now I think he has the potential to be a success for Hibs.

Good post, tho I think you meant to say games per goal, not even Ronaldo and Messi score 2.88 goals per game !

My issues with Collins however are not just his finishing, I really hope to be proved wrong but I just don't feel he is decent footballer.

green.and.white
11-01-2014, 12:00 AM
Still not convinced about him even though he has looked better under Butcher than Fenlon. Not even sure what kind of striker he is? Target man? Runner in the channels? Needs to add more goals anyway

Victor Park
11-01-2014, 12:01 AM
Good post, tho I think you meant to say games per goal, not even Ronaldo and Messi score 2.88 goals per game !

My issues with Collins however are not just his finishing, I really hope to be proved wrong but I just don't feel he is decent footballer.

:agree: Agree with all you say on him. Great work rate, and might improve as he gets older but we need better just now if we want to be beating teams more regularly.

Willis1875
11-01-2014, 12:01 AM
Good workrate but still no idea what the guys preferred foot is,he barely shoots

Liberal Hibby
11-01-2014, 12:02 AM
Remind me how many SPL goals Nish scored?

Jonnyboy
11-01-2014, 12:02 AM
Some stats that people might find interesting:

Billy McKay had scored 13 goals in 74 appearances for Northampton Town (League 2) before signing for ICT. In his first season with the club, he only managed 3 goals in 22 appearances. He has a (league) career total of 53 goals in 153 appearances (a goal every 2.88 games)

James Collins had scored 15 goals in 45 appearances for Swindon Town (League 1) before signing for Hibs. He has thus far scored 4 goals in 19 appearances. He has a (league) career total of 47 goals in 147 appearances (a goal every 3.12 games)

Now I know that the past only counts for so much, and there's no guarantee that James Collins will emulate the success of Billy McKay, but I think there's enough proof to dismiss claims that "he's not a natural goalscorer" and that he runs about and offers little else. He's already shown that he can score goals at a level that probably isn't too different from the Scottish Premiership. He is only 23 and has already shown signs that there is a player in him - all that's missing is the sort of prolific form that people were wanting to see in a replacement for Leigh Griffiths. I think it's naive and unfair to expect Collins to be banging them in straight away - our league isn't always the easiest to adjust to, and players like Claros, Roberston and indeed McKay are testament to that. I really think that given the time and service, he'll be a really good quality player for us. I don't expect to happen right away - if we're still having this discussion next season then maybe I'll need to re-evaluate my opinion of him but right now I think he has the potential to be a success for Hibs.

:top marks

Onceinawhile
11-01-2014, 12:26 AM
Remind me how many SPL goals Nish scored?

22 in 98 for us. Slightly worse than 1 in 4. Thought it was better than that.

Currently at Dumbarton.

silverhibee
11-01-2014, 12:40 AM
How many chances did he get tonight? One half chance?

I like Collins. I think with the right service, he'll score.

He has been getting plenty of service, he isn't taking the chances when they come along.

Liberal Hibby
11-01-2014, 12:58 AM
22 in 98 for us. Slightly worse than 1 in 4. Thought it was better than that.

Currently at Dumbarton.

Aye - but in the top ten SPL scorers of all time. Collins is much better than Nish and if we hound him out we'll regret it.

IFONLY
11-01-2014, 09:03 AM
How many chances did he get tonight? One half chance?

I like Collins. I think with the right service, he'll score.

This kind of comment is becoming very tiring, he has been given ample service but fails miserably to capitalise on it. A good striker can create their own chances, unfortunately he is not of that calibre.

mutley
11-01-2014, 09:38 AM
He runs everywhere at full pelt, no idea where he gets his energy from, but as for being a striker? I'm not convinced.

Essex the Hibee
11-01-2014, 10:19 AM
Really hope I'm wrong In saying this as I do like his work rate but as a footballer he is starting to remind me of Colin Nish. I feel like he could play all night and not score. What does everyone else think? Again really hope I'm proved wrong and he starts rattling them in but as thing stands he's not good enough and we need better

Unfortunately, I have been thinking the same for the past few months now. I don't understand how he is given the amount of time on the pitch that he gets. He has a great engine but there's very little end-product i.e. Goals !!!:dunno:

Onion
11-01-2014, 10:23 AM
One of our hardest working players and may well come good but at the moment his confidence in front of goal is completely shot - not helped by his two attempts last night, an air shot and scuffed attempt. So, he's working extra hard chasing down defenders and lost causes outside the box. Rarely in the box or right place to score except at set plays. IMHO the jury is still out, but as soon as Terry brings in a couple of creative players I expect to see Collins looking hungry for GOALS and getting into scoring positions and taking chances. Really hope the guy is not a another Fenlon dud.

Fraz1875
11-01-2014, 10:24 AM
alot of the time It just seems to never quite happen for him. Workrate is superb, a bit more time alongside Heff and we will start to see goals.

clerriehibs
11-01-2014, 10:26 AM
I'm as yet unconvinced by him but then again I felt exactly the same way about GOC in his first few games.

GOC was 17 in his first few games.

Hibiza
11-01-2014, 02:22 PM
so far. be honest, not looking good.

Keith_M
11-01-2014, 02:55 PM
I feel I've been as patient as most with this guy but it's time to admit that he's not going to get any better.

We need to get rid and bring in someone that can actually score.

Danderhall Hibs
11-01-2014, 03:05 PM
I feel I've been as patient as most with this guy but it's time to admit that he's not going to get any better.

We need to get rid and bring in someone that can actually score.

Unfair - he's gone done mom to scapegoat.

And wasn't heffernan brought in to score goals?

Spike Mandela
11-01-2014, 03:09 PM
22 in 98 for us. Slightly worse than 1 in 4. Thought it was better than that.

Currently at Dumbarton.

Nish has just scored for Dumbarton.:greengrin

bigwheel
11-01-2014, 03:12 PM
These threads always come up after a defeat....if we had sneaked a goal (regardless of who scored), it would have been "Collins worked hard all night" commentary.

In terms of last night, I would have thought Heffernan, Robertson, Craig and McGivern were all poorer performers than Collins. Strikers are easy targets. Collins attitude and work rate will dig him out of his goal drought. And if he does move on, he has all the attributes to score as his career progresses.

Ronniekirk
11-01-2014, 03:12 PM
Unfair - he's gone done mom to scapegoat.

And wasn't heffernan brought in to score goals?
Heff is nearing twilight of career and lacks real pace but he is just back from injury .he will get more goals than Collins if stays fit .He has good control and spatial awareness . he knows where the goal is .His efforts last night lacked power .Wouldnt of given him a 2 year contract but next season will probably be more a sub and coach younger players

jeffers
11-01-2014, 03:25 PM
These threads always come up after a defeat....if we had sneaked a goal (regardless of who scored), it would have been "Collins worked hard all night" commentary.

In terms of last night, I would have thought Heffernan, Robertson, Craig and McGivern were all poorer performers than Collins. Strikers are easy targets. Collins attitude and work rate will dig him out of his goal drought. And if he does move on, he has all the attributes to score as his career progresses.

Sorry but I don't agree with a word of this. Take away his work rate and Collins offers next to nothing, not just last night but in every game I have seen him.

bigwheel
11-01-2014, 04:03 PM
Sorry but I don't agree with a word of this. Take away his work rate and Collins offers next to nothing, not just last night but in every game I have seen him.

Well you can have your opinion...but I don't think you are watching his contribution...it's not just about effort...his touch is often decent, his lay off work is good...wins a decent amount in the air..time will tell, but I think he will go on to score a decent amount of goals. Might not be with us, but I think he will do reasonably well.

jeffers
11-01-2014, 04:14 PM
Well you can have your opinion...but I don't think you are watching his contribution...it's not just about effort...his touch is often decent, his lay off work is good...wins a decent amount in the air..time will tell, but I think he will go on to score a decent amount of goals. Might not be with us, but I think he will do reasonably well.

Fair enough. It's one of the things about football how two people can watch the same player and have two totally conflicting opinions about them. Where you see a decent touch often I see a dreadful touch, you see him win a decent amount in the air I see someone who wins almost nothing and who very rarely even jumps for the ball. He just doesn't look like someone who is a natural goal scorer.

Ultimately I hope it is you who is right about him and he does go on to be a great player for us.

bigwheel
11-01-2014, 04:17 PM
Fair enough. It's one of the things about football how two people can watch the same player and have two totally conflicting opinions about them. Where you see a decent touch often I see a dreadful touch, you see him win a decent amount in the air I see someone who wins almost nothing and who very rarely even jumps for the ball. He just doesn't look like someone who is a natural goal scorer.

Ultimately I hope it is you who is right about him and he does go on to be a great player for us.


well we both agree on that! we certainly need more goals!

jeffers
11-01-2014, 04:18 PM
well we both agree on that! we certainly need more goals!

That's for sure and just as important someone to set them up !

cmcd
11-01-2014, 04:42 PM
Posted on another thread, I think he is honking and not just on tonight's performance. I realise it's all about opinions but someone who is saying he is a good player please tell me what his attributes are ? I think he is slow, has poor control, wins nothing in the air and his finishing is woeful.


JC scored lots of goals for his previous club due to the service he got from both flanks so lets wait and see how he performs when TB gets his own players in

jeffers
11-01-2014, 04:50 PM
JC scored lots of goals for his previous club due to the service he got from both flanks so lets wait and see how he performs when TB gets his own players in

Assuming one of those players isn't to replace Collins :wink:

Hibee Ryan
11-01-2014, 04:58 PM
I've known about Collins since his Shrewsbury town days when a mate who supports them brought him to my attention, he said that he was outstanding at times so when we signed him I was delighted and I honestly think he'll score goals eventually.

Look at Inverness and see the wingers they have, with that at Hibs Collins will score headers and one touch finishes. He's having to run the channels and chase lost causes simply because he doesn't get enough good service so is trying to do it himself.

He's obviously nowhere near as good as Griffiths but with better quality around him I honestly believe that Collins could be a 10-20 goals per season striker but obviously only time will tell

HibbyCal
11-01-2014, 05:01 PM
Collins already looks good. Brings others into play really well. Its still early stages under Butcher.

Ronniekirk
11-01-2014, 05:12 PM
[QUOTSE=HibbyCal;3867739]Collins already looks good. Brings others into play really well. Its still early stages under Butcher.[/QUOTE]
Was watching butchers face after his miss cue in first half and he looked more dejected at full time when interviewed I think he will now be looking at brining in another striker. look at Lyle Taylor we or rather Petrie would pay roughly what we allegedly paid for Collins .yet thistle now have him on loan and he has scored three goals in as many games only one behind Collins. enough said . Petrie has brought in more managers not backed them at right times and then panic signings at end of transfer window .I really hope he doesn't mess Butcher around although at present butcher is saying it's down to managers at other clubs being sacked and players identified suddenly scoring for there club .

HibbyCal
11-01-2014, 05:13 PM
[QUOTSE=HibbyCal;3867739]Collins already looks good. Brings others into play really well. Its still early stages under Butcher.
Was watching butchers face after his miss cue in first half and he looked more dejected at full time when interviewed I think he will now be looking at brining in another striker. look at Lyle Taylor we or rather Petrie would pay roughly what we allegedly paid for Collins .yet thistle now have him on loan and he has scored three goals in as many games only one behind Collins. enough said . Petrie has brought in more managers not backed them at right times and then panic signings at end of transfer window .I really hope he doesn't mess Butcher around although at present butcher is saying it's down to managers at other clubs being sacked and players identified suddenly scoring for there club .[/QUOTE]

Deffo would love to see Lyle Taylor come tbf.

lobster
11-01-2014, 06:41 PM
Was watching butchers face after his miss cue in first half and he looked more dejected at full time when interviewed I think he will now be looking at brining in another striker. look at Lyle Taylor we or rather Petrie would pay roughly what we allegedly paid for Collins .yet thistle now have him on loan and he has scored three goals in as many games only one behind Collins. enough said . Petrie has brought in more managers not backed them at right times and then panic signings at end of transfer window .I really hope he doesn't mess Butcher around although at present butcher is saying it's down to managers at other clubs being sacked and players identified suddenly scoring for there club .

Deffo would love to see Lyle Taylor come tbf.[/QUOTE]

Bang on, looks like a great bit of business for thistle. Like others have stated Collins work rate is commendable but his control looks clumsy and laboured, Would love to be proved wrong,

Islington Hibs
11-01-2014, 09:37 PM
Was watching butchers face after his miss cue in first half and he looked more dejected at full time when interviewed I think he will now be looking at brining in another striker. look at Lyle Taylor we or rather Petrie would pay roughly what we allegedly paid for Collins .yet thistle now have him on loan and he has scored three goals in as many games only one behind Collins. enough said . Petrie has brought in more managers not backed them at right times and then panic signings at end of transfer window .I really hope he doesn't mess Butcher around although at present butcher is saying it's down to managers at other clubs being sacked and players identified suddenly scoring for there club .

Deffo would love to see Lyle Taylor come tbf.[/QUOTE]

Sadly I agree with this. You can not fault Collins. He works incredibly hard and clearly and rightly has the support of most on this board but despite that I think he is not quite the finished article. Lacks a first touch and composure so far. That said the goal against Hearts has certainly paid his wages and I hope to be proved wrong.

We are not firing up front. We seem very well organised at the back and just lack that spark up front which could change us from an OK team to quite a good one. Suspect HibbyCal is right and changes will be made.

leggeto
12-01-2014, 12:21 AM
Bring back doyle