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View Full Version : Being a gay footballer in Germany... What about Scotland?



Viva_Palmeiras
08-01-2014, 03:57 PM
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/ex-footballer-hitzlsperger-announces-he-is-gay-1-3260831

Sad but true that the abuse would likely rain down from the stands or would it?

I hope I'm not alone in saying I wouldn't mind if Hibs had a player past, present or future who was/is gay I hope society has moved on and it's just the tabloids that make a big deal...

Had to laugh about Lahm being "dogged" about having a male friend in Cologne ;)

CropleyWasGod
08-01-2014, 04:01 PM
One day, this will not be a story :agree:

Brightside
08-01-2014, 04:01 PM
http://m.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/ex-footballer-hitzlsperger-announces-he-is-gay-1-3260831

Sad but true that the abuse would likely rain down from the stands or would it?

I hope I'm not alone in saying I wouldn't mind if Hibs had a player past, present or future who was/is gay I hope society has moved on and it's just the tabloids that make a big deal...

Had to laugh about Lahm being "dogged" about having a male friend in Cologne ;)

Errrr "all the hibees are gay" "paul hartley is gaaaaay". Some people are still brain dead. So i wouldnt hold yer breath.

Vault Boy
08-01-2014, 04:03 PM
One day, this will not be a story :agree:

:agree:

Marty-Hibee
08-01-2014, 04:04 PM
Black, white, purple, green, blue, gay, straight, asexual, bisexual, trisexual, one leg, two legs, male, female, dog, cat. Score a goal for my beloved Hibernian and I will love you all the same:agree:

Viva_Palmeiras
08-01-2014, 04:20 PM
Black, white, purple, green, blue, gay, straight, asexual, bisexual, trisexual, one leg, two legs, male, female, dog, cat. Score a goal for my beloved Hibernian and I will love you all the same:agree:

But you'd draw the line at a Jambo ;)

Andy74
08-01-2014, 04:42 PM
Football is an enironment where you are more than likely to be picked on for something if we can wind people up.

I don't think it really reflects what people think or would accept and the media tend to keep telling peoplke what problems there are in football as if they are different from society itself. Thgere again I wouldn't shout abuse at people doing other jobs but I will at the football so there is some justification.

My opinion is that any gay player here would get a bit of light hearted stick both from colleagues and fans and it would pass pretty quickly. I don't think anyone would really care other than providing something we know about that could help put a player off! Much in the same way as being ugly, fat or a Jambo.

Scouse Hibee
08-01-2014, 04:47 PM
Football is an enironment where you are more than likely to be picked on for something if we can wind people up.

I don't think it really reflects what people think or would accept and the media tend to keep telling peoplke what problems there are in football as if they are different from society itself. Thgere again I wouldn't shout abuse at people doing other jobs but I will at the football so there is some justification.

My opinion is that any gay player here would get a bit of light hearted stick both from colleagues and fans and it would pass pretty quickly. I don't think anyone would really care other than providing something we know about that could help put a player off! Much in the same way as being ugly, fat or a Jambo.

No chance! Have you seen what society has to offer these days from some so called football supporters.

Keith_M
08-01-2014, 04:51 PM
If every gay player openly came out during their career, instead of after, the problem would be solved almost instantly. You'd look pretty stupid chanting anti-gay slogans at the opposition when some of your own players are gay.


I'd agree about football fans and their prehistoric attitudes though. You only have to look at our own forum where one guy has his location as 'Jock'land.

Richibee
08-01-2014, 04:55 PM
No chance! Have you seen what society has to offer these days from some so called football supporters.Agree - "we" still go on about fat Joe Harper, ugly Davie Dodds etc.....

leggeto
08-01-2014, 05:02 PM
Remember big Justin fashanu the jambos have short memories when calling us all gay,so what,I think he scored against us too

Aaron
08-01-2014, 05:27 PM
I personally know a Scottish professional player who is gay and is playing. It is sad state of affairs that he can't 'come out' and be himself.

bob12345
08-01-2014, 05:35 PM
If every gay player openly came out during their career, instead of after, the problem would be solved almost instantly. You'd look pretty stupid chanting anti-gay slogans at the opposition when some of your own players are gay.


This is correct. If some sort of scenario could be created where hundreds came out at the same time, it would be fine. But whilst there are 3 or 4 known gay players in the world, who is going to make themselves number 5?

Pretty Boy
08-01-2014, 06:16 PM
One day, this will not be a story :agree:

Already less 'shocking' than it would have been even 5 years ago.

In the last couple of years I can think off a boxer, a rugby player, 3 footballers and a diver who have made their sexuality public. They obviously feel comfortable enough to do so now.

The world is changing and the dinosaurs will have to get used to it.

Danderhall Hibs
08-01-2014, 06:49 PM
I personally know a Scottish professional player who is gay and is playing. It is sad state of affairs that he can't 'come out' and be himself.

Why can't he?

marinello59
08-01-2014, 07:00 PM
Football is an enironment where you are more than likely to be picked on for something if we can wind people up.

I don't think it really reflects what people think or would accept and the media tend to keep telling peoplke what problems there are in football as if they are different from society itself. Thgere again I wouldn't shout abuse at people doing other jobs but I will at the football so there is some justification.

My opinion is that any gay player here would get a bit of light hearted stick both from colleagues and fans and it would pass pretty quickly. I don't think anyone would really care other than providing something we know about that could help put a player off! Much in the same way as being ugly, fat or a Jambo.

Agreed.
But would you talk about light hearted racism being acceptable just because it's the football? I doubt it so why should homophobic remarks, light hearted or otherwise, be any more acceptable?

Sir David Gray
08-01-2014, 07:03 PM
Don't see why this is news.

It's no-one's business what you get up to in your private life and it doesn't interest me in the slightest.

HUTCHYHIBBY
08-01-2014, 07:23 PM
Exactly, why its constantly shoved to the forefront on here is beyond me.

truehibernian
08-01-2014, 07:25 PM
Don't see why this is news.

It's no-one's business what you get up to in your private life and it doesn't interest me in the slightest.

It's news (good news) as it will hopefully lead to more tolerance, players feeling far more confident they can express their sexuality and not face abuse, and perhaps encourage, enhance and promote greater respect and decency in the game and more importantly on the terraces and beyond.

For me it is a good news story and very courageous of the lad - well done to him for being out and proud :aok: a high profile player coming out may give others the confidence to in the future, hence it's stories like this that are needed in my opinion.

The_Todd
08-01-2014, 07:31 PM
I don't see why anyone should have to "come out". People don't come out and announce they're left handed, it's just part of who you are. The fact people need to "come out" just adds to the "being different" thing. Maybe one day it won't matter so much people need to, I suppose.

Pretty Boy
08-01-2014, 07:33 PM
I think people asking why this is news are missing the point a bit.

One of the biggest challenges facing a gay person is telling those close to them off their sexuality. Many people have been forced to live double lives or keep a huge secret for nothing more than being attracted to someone of the same sex.

A few high profile names coming out might just help or encourage someone else to do likewise.

It's not about shouting it from the rooftops or making a big scene, it's about being able to be open about a huge part of their life in the same way hetrosexuals are.

Andy74
08-01-2014, 07:34 PM
Agreed.
But would you talk about light hearted racism being acceptable just because it's the football? I doubt it so why should homophobic remarks, light hearted or otherwise, be any more acceptable?

I agree with you. Though I'm sure some of our recent managers and players would agree that the casual racism is still alive and well. Some racism doesn't appear to be as big an issue as others though. Some of it might be acceptable to those involved though. Scottish , Irish, Welsh , Scouse banter would still be expected in a dressing room I'd imagine.

I'd personally stick a bit of banter amongst blokes about being gay in with that as opposed to proper abuse of black or Asian players. I'd doubt there would be serious mistreatment these days thankfully.

Not sure that makes much sense but there you go.

Lester B
08-01-2014, 07:43 PM
I agree with you. Though I'm sure some of our recent managers and players would agree that the casual racism is still alive and well. Some racism doesn't appear to be as big an issue as others though. Some of it might be acceptable to those involved though. Scottish , Irish, Welsh , Scouse banter would still be expected in a dressing room I'd imagine.

I'd personally stick a bit of banter amongst blokes about being gay in with that as opposed to proper abuse of black or Asian players. I'd doubt there would be serious mistreatment these days thankfully.

Not sure that makes much sense but there you go.

It makes no sense at all frankly.So abusing a gay player isn't 'proper abuse'. Pathetic.

Callum_62
08-01-2014, 07:59 PM
Agreed.
But would you talk about light hearted racism being acceptable just because it's the football? I doubt it so why should homophobic remarks, light hearted or otherwise, be any more acceptable?


:agree:

Viva_Palmeiras
08-01-2014, 08:02 PM
Exactly, why its constantly shoved to the forefront on here is beyond me.

Sorry didn't realise there was a quota so hadn't checked - if you'll look back I don't think I've been guilty of that :confused:

stu in nottingham
08-01-2014, 08:16 PM
I wrote a few words a while back about Justin Fashanu. Justin had a pretty torrid time here in Nottingham at both clubs.

There are some pretty good insights into the man in the comments people have added, including a biographer and also someone who knew him. Worth a read.

Justin Fashanu (http://stuartfrew.wordpress.com/2007/08/11/justin-fashanu/)

http://www.universityobserver.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Justin-Fashanu-of-Norwich-007.jpg

lucky
08-01-2014, 08:22 PM
Someone's sexuality should not be a news story. It's sad the football does not seem to accept everyone for who they are not their sexuality.

Aldo
08-01-2014, 08:25 PM
One day, this will not be a story :agree:

Shouldn't be a story now tbh.

Blocks Biloxi
08-01-2014, 08:30 PM
Why can't he?

because Big Jim Goodwin has a reputation to uphold!

R'Albin
08-01-2014, 08:36 PM
It's the fact the 'High Quality' newspapers feel the need to make a big deal over people 'coming out'. I haven't ever really cared about Thomas Hitzlthingy, why does it need reported that he's gay?

Danderhall Hibs
08-01-2014, 08:42 PM
It's the fact the 'High Quality' newspapers feel the need to make a big deal over people 'coming out'. I haven't ever really cared about Thomas Hitzlthingy, why does it need reported that he's gay?

Maybe they're giving folk some awareness?

If more than one player came out at the same time the papers wouldn't know what to do. If there was a way a group of gay players could contact each other and make it public at the same time it would stop this being news and allow everyone to live the life they want to live out in the open.

Viva_Palmeiras
08-01-2014, 08:46 PM
Don't see why this is news.

It's no-one's business what you get up to in your private life and it doesn't interest me in the slightest.

That should be the case but its not there yet.

I think the point is he and sportsmen and women like him feel the need (often after they've "made it") to put their sexuality out there so that they can maybe make it easier for others in the future. I don't think they intend primarily to be role models but they may wel become role models.

Football is supposed to be for everyone why in the UK is there a lack of proportionate representation from certain groups? More often than not Sexuality is not something you can tell by looking at someone so perhaps that's why some folks are coming out - to encourage others to stick in and they too could make it.

TRC
08-01-2014, 08:47 PM
Thought this was a great article, don't know anything of the nba but his point is spot on IMHO. http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25660495

R'Albin
08-01-2014, 08:48 PM
Maybe they're giving folk some awareness?

If more than one player came out at the same time the papers wouldn't know what to do. If there was a way a group of gay players could contact each other and make it public at the same time it would stop this being news and allow everyone to live the life they want to live out in the open.

I agree that would be a good way of doing it. I don't think it needs to be acknowledged. To me it just highlights that the papers feel that being gay is 'different', when in reality it shouldn't even be newsworthy.

nonshinyfinish
08-01-2014, 09:23 PM
I agree that would be a good way of doing it. I don't think it needs to be acknowledged. To me it just highlights that the papers feel that being gay is 'different', when in reality it shouldn't even be newsworthy.

In an ideal world it wouldn't be newsworthy. In the real world it's newsworthy because it's so uncommon in football.

What makes him 'different' is not that he's gay, or even that he's a gay footballer, but that he's a gay footballer who's come out.

Lester B
08-01-2014, 09:42 PM
Apologies for previous deleted post. This is something I feel very strongly about and would always support any gay man in whichever field who comes out as it takes a lot to do this especially in such a public vocation.

People are saying it shouldn't be a news story. One day it won't need to be. That day hasn't arrived yet and while loads of people are still forced to hide their sexuality and suffer because of it especially teenagers I think any footballer who does come out should be applauded and supported.

Hibby D
08-01-2014, 10:08 PM
Apologies for previous deleted post. This is something I feel very strongly about and would always support any gay man in whichever field who comes out as it takes a lot to do this especially in such a public vocation.

People are saying it shouldn't be a news story. One day it won't need to be. That day hasn't arrived yet and while loads of people are still forced to hide their sexuality and suffer because of it especially teenagers I think any footballer who does come out should be applauded and supported.


:top marks:top marks

Danderhall Hibs
08-01-2014, 10:18 PM
Apologies for previous deleted post. This is something I feel very strongly about and would always support any gay man in whichever field who comes out as it takes a lot to do this especially in such a public vocation.

People are saying it shouldn't be a news story. One day it won't need to be. That day hasn't arrived yet and while loads of people are still forced to hide their sexuality and suffer because of it especially teenagers I think any footballer who does come out should be applauded and supported.

Agreed.

The 1st one to do it could make a real name for himself as a trailblazer.

Surely whoever does it won't get that much abuse will they?

R'Albin
08-01-2014, 10:52 PM
In a ideal world it wouldn't be newsworthy. In the real world it's newsworthy because it's so uncommon in football.

What makes him 'different' is not that he's gay, or even that he's a gay footballer, but that he's a gay footballer who's come out.

I guess I'm being too idealistic at this point. Maybe in 5-10 years' time gay footballers coming out won't be newsworthy - at least we can hope that's the case. I do understand why the papers print these stories(as with any), but I just find it a shame that they do.

stu in nottingham
08-01-2014, 11:15 PM
Agreed.

The 1st one to do it could make a real name for himself as a trailblazer.

Surely whoever does it won't get that much abuse will they?

The person may sadly get some abuse but I also think he would conversely get fantastic support also.

Scouse Hibee
09-01-2014, 12:45 PM
If every gay player openly came out during their career, instead of after, the problem would be solved almost instantly. You'd look pretty stupid chanting anti-gay slogans at the opposition when some of your own players are gay.


I'd agree about football fans and their prehistoric attitudes though. You only have to look at our own forum where one guy has his location as 'Jock'land.

:na na:

Hibrandenburg
09-01-2014, 01:11 PM
I guess I'm being too idealistic at this point. Maybe in 5-10 years' time gay footballers coming out won't be newsworthy - at least we can hope that's the case. I do understand why the papers print these stories(as with any), but I just find it a shame that they do.

Don't hold your breath on changes happening any time soon. When the football establishment itself is advising travelling fans to stop being gay for the duration of the world cup finals in Qatar then you can get a sense of what homosexuals are up against.

AndyM_1875
09-01-2014, 01:23 PM
I remember when Justin Fashanu played for Hearts in the early 90s. He was a big lumbering cart horse of a front man by then and the magic he showed at Norwich had most definitely gone.
He wasnt having a particularly good game that day along with 21 other players and The Hibs support that day, gathered on the alfresco Gorgie Road terracing to witness another atrocious 1-1 draw didn't do much to enhance our clubs reputation. Looking back now from 20 odd years in the future it was absolutely embarrassing listening to constant chants of "he's gay, he's bent..." And cat calls of "poof" and "faggot" coming from the supposedly inclusive and welcoming Hibernian support.

After about an hour into the match one man a few rows behind shouted down at a group of abusers "for Christ sake change the record you idiots. Its really boring".
This prompted an immediate response of "You a poof too then...".

Thats how Embarrassing and Neanderthal it was.

Keith_M
09-01-2014, 02:04 PM
:na na:


Right back at ya, Scouse Git


:na na:

Scouse Hibee
09-01-2014, 03:48 PM
Right back at ya, Scouse Git


:na na:


All right you win I'll change it, please pick which one you prefer:

Land of the Haggis munchers
Land of the skirt wearing Haggis munchers
The biggest county in England

NOLA
09-01-2014, 05:45 PM
is there not a bender in the dortmund team?

fatbloke
09-01-2014, 07:23 PM
The person may sadly get some abuse but I also think he would conversely get fantastic support also.
I seem to remember much speculation years ago about Hans Gillhaus(sp) at Aberdeen. Cannot remember the outcome but remember the stick he got. Cracking player he was too.

weonlywon6-2
09-01-2014, 07:28 PM
Football is possibly one of the hardest sports to admit your gay in.

Fans always look for reasons to slag other players.It may change when players at some of the biggest clubs in the world come out ,or is it there just isnt that many???

Danderhall Hibs
09-01-2014, 08:49 PM
Football is possibly one of the hardest sports to admit your gay in.

Fans always look for reasons to slag other players.It may change when players at some of the biggest clubs in the world come out ,or is it there just isnt that many???

If a Hibs, Hearts, Rangers, Aberdeen and Celtic player (or a similar combination) came out at the same time then who could you slag off?

Jonnyboy
09-01-2014, 08:51 PM
All right you win I'll change it, please pick which one you prefer:

Land of the Haggis munchers
Land of the skirt wearing Haggis munchers
The biggest county in England

How about immigrant :greengrin

marinello59
09-01-2014, 08:58 PM
The person may sadly get some abuse but I also think he would conversely get fantastic support also.

:top marks
I love the fact you have made a really positive statement.

heretoday
09-01-2014, 09:40 PM
I don't see why anyone should have to "come out". People don't come out and announce they're left handed, it's just part of who you are. The fact people need to "come out" just adds to the "being different" thing. Maybe one day it won't matter so much people need to, I suppose.

I agree. A player's sexuality is of no interest to me nor is it any of my business.

It should be the same for this guy's team mates but isn't it the case that some of them might feel a bit awkward sharing the shower room with him?

Jonnyboy
09-01-2014, 09:42 PM
I agree. A player's sexuality is of no interest to me nor is it any of my business.

It should be the same for this guy's team mates but isn't it the case that some of them might feel a bit awkward sharing the shower room with him?

Says more about them than it does about him

Danderhall Hibs
09-01-2014, 09:54 PM
Says more about them than it does about him

:agree:

nonshinyfinish
09-01-2014, 10:06 PM
The person may sadly get some abuse but I also think he would conversely get fantastic support also.

I think this is true. I also agree with what someone said earlier, that the change in attitude of the average fan is noticeable from even just 5 years ago.

However, that's easy for us to say. It's far, far more difficult for one of the many gay footballers to take the chance that it might not be as we predict, and they might be hounded for the rest of their career.

I see the logic in the idea of a group all coming out at the same time, but it seems logistically unlikely to me.