Dundee Utd 2 V Hibernian 2 (Craig x 2) FT

[grunt]

Still time for us to win this.

[Mikey]

Are we in injury time yet and how much was there?

4 mins it seems. And we're level now :rolleyes:

[Aldo]

That's 2 points dropped and butcher I'll go through the roof

[cabbageandribs1875]

Are we in injury time yet and how much was there?


yes 4 mins added i think

[zlatan]

Would've taken it beforehand but disappointing to throw that lead away

[Pretty Boy]

Butcher out.

[Peevemor]

Dissappointing to lose a 2 goal lead, but the players must be knackered.

Keep going guys!

[givescotlandfreedom]

Awww naw!

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

j.i.n.x

:paranoid:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Are we in injury time yet and how much was there?

not on hibs tv - tinternet delay "last few mins"

[matty_f]

Tough luck. That would have been an excellent 3 points.Gutted.

[seanshow]

blowing a 2 goal lead, :fuming: bollox

[Gatecrasher]

Had a feeling that would happen after their first goal.

[HiBremian]

Backs against the wall now.

[SaulGoodman]

We'll lose this

[Callum_62]

really hanging on here

[Aldo]

Awww naw!

Awww naw whit

[cabbageandribs1875]

attack after attack from utd..

[matty_f]

We'll lose this

Wheesht you!

[OsloHibs]

gutted.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Awww naw whit
Equaliser

[matty_f]

'Mon Hibs.

[Frazerbob]

Equaliser

A bit of a delayed reaction....I thought it was a 3rd Utd goal!

[Alfred E Newman]

Butcher out!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

lesson to Hibs - utd under JM will play to the whistle like Celtc

[cabbageandribs1875]

2-0 and we ****ed it up

[Mikey]

Killing off time in the corner. Hate that tactic

Shame they didn't keep it there.............

[hibee_nation]

Disapointed to lose 2 late goals but an away draw today is a decent result, onwards and upwards. GGTTH

[Oscar T Grouch]

Fek sake I go and make myself a bowl of soup 0-2 up I come back and it's backs to the wall and 2-2!!!

[cabbageandribs1875]

FT dammit

[HiBremian]

FT 2-2

Disappointing in the end, but would have taken a point beforehand.

[Peevemor]

FT 2-2

Not to shabby.

Onward and upward! :tbgwa:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

ft

[SaulGoodman]

Shame they didn't keep it there.............

Which is why I hate that tactic

[Pretty Boy]

Disappointing to blow a 2 goal lead but if you'd offered 10 points out the last 4 games a few weeks back i would have taken it no questions asked.

We're going in the right direction.

[cabbageandribs1875]

FT 2-2

Disappointing in the end, but would have taken a point beforehand.


:agree:


so disappointing though

[Dibben]

Would have taken that before ko.

Good result. Shame we lost a 2 goal lead, but hey ho!

[Oscar T Grouch]

Tbh I'd have taken that if offered it before kick off!! Still feel kinda down about it though :(

[GreenLake]

I would have taken a draw before the game.

[O'Rourke3]

Ah frick. Would have settled for a point at the start but gutted now.

[hibeedonald]

More frustrating than anything else.

[Saorsa]

Draw was what I was expecting, a bit disappointing now efter being in front so long but it's a better result than we would have had a few months ago.

[essexhibee]

Real shame that. But we are still rebuilding. Haven't lost. Momentum still going hopefully.

Onwards and upwards onto Friday no point dwelling on that result. :agree:

[Andy74]

FT 2-2

Disappointing in the end, but would have taken a point beforehand.

United had lost 3 in a row. Was very winnable today.

[Mon Dieu4]

Ach well, gutted to lose a two goal lead, but would have taken a draw to start with, shows how far we have come under Butcher already that we are all gutted with this result

Few new players in and onwards and upwards

[Gatecrasher]

Still a decent point to pick up though.
I think we've done well this Christmas and new year!

[matty_f]

FT 2-2

Disappointing in the end, but would have taken a point beforehand.

:agree: always feels bad to be in front then get pegged back but it's a point away from home against a good side.

We shouldn't be too despondent about it.

[hibbybrian]

FT dammit

FT TF :greengrin

[OsloHibs]

The Utd goals- what happened??

[Keith_M]

Dissapointing but one loss, at Celtc Park, in 9 games under Butcher is not too shabby.

[Callum_62]

we looked a very tired leggy team last 15 mins

ALl stemmed from losing a very poor 1st goal tho...high punt between Nelson and williams didn't deal with it properly, into Goodwillie...turns his man easily and finishes

Wouldve taken a draw beforehand but disappointing in the end

Our Midfield seemed to disappear - Robbo looked injured too, surprised he wasnt subbed

[Saorsa]

United had lost 3 in a row. Was very winnable today.Better result than we'd have got if your pal was still in charge.

[Andy74]

Draw was what I was expecting, a bit disappointing now efter being in front so long but it's a better result than we would have had a few months ago.

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

[The_Horde]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

....... Slaver.

[BroxburnHibee]

Obviously gutted to lose the lead but would have took a point beforehand and it sounds as if Utd were worth their point so onwards and hopefully upwards.

Butcher will have learnt more about the team as well.

[Mr White]

Dissapointing but one loss, at Celtc Park, in 9 games under Butcher is not too shabby.

:agree: disappointing today but bigger picture looks so much better than just a few weeks ago :thumbsup:

[SaulGoodman]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

You talk some pish.

[RoYO!]

United had lost 3 in a row. Was very winnable today.

Dont think playing united away is ever going to be easy. Law of averages says they were due a win. They are regarded accross the country as a good footballing team. A team by all account we were unlucky not to beat today.

[Andy74]

Better result than we'd have got if your pal was still in charge.

Only over the last ten games or so we've only had a couple if results better than last time. I'm happy with where we care going but the repetition of things like this isn't really true.

[Leithenhibby]

United are nae mugs, so don't be too hard........ :aok:

[Alfred E Newman]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

Eh?:confused:

[matty_f]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.


Andy, with the best will in the world that's rubbish. Look at the last 7 or 8 games under Fenlon against Butcher's results and tell me there's not been a huge improvement.

[SouthamptonHibs]

Decent point but think it has to be a booooooo at the end! Loosing two goals in seven minutes reeks off sitting back. Least Hearts got beat. Looks like our point will help in the battle for top 6. Positions 1-2-3 out of reach now, we are in a battle for 4-5-6 or 7th
Hail Hail

[Callum_62]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

We actually look like a proper team now though. No one can deny that we are far better to watch now than 3-4 months ago

Its not champagne football, but atleast we are having shots at goal

[the_ginger_hibee]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

Aye, bring back Fenlon.

[euro Hibby]

coupon busted ......was putting my shoes on to go and collect £ 100 quid from Chelsea , Aberdeen and Hibs........not the first time i have been done in the last minute these last few weeks.........anyway not a bad result all told...........need a win now at Aberdeen !

[Del Boy]

To be fair we were probably lucky to be 2 up, if game had gone on another 5 mins we'd have lost. Not a bad point.

[Shrekko]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

What have been our results against Raith?

[The_Horde]

Only over the last ten games or so we've only had a couple if results better than last time. I'm happy with where we care going but the repetition of things like this isn't really true.

I agree in fact I'm 100% sure Rowan Vine would've bagged a hat trick today and we'd have won 3-2

[cabbageandribs1875]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.




Eh ! big sammy is confused

[Andy74]

You talk some pish.

Which bits are wrong?

[cleanyman]

Du are on a stinking run, there for the taking and no doubt we've blown it.

[Andy74]

What have been our results against Raith?

Sorry Ross County !

[jane_says]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

Deary me

[JimBHibees]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

Your having a laugh surely. When did we win a home game so convincingly as v Killie or dominate Hearts as in the derby.

[Lee Marvin]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

Incredible opinion

[weonlywon6-2]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.


Are you victor meldrew???

[Blaster]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

You are starting to bore everyone now. Let it go

[Stevie Reid]

Utd suffered a sore defeat in a derby on Wed and had an extra day's rest - we put everything into Thursday and it maybe cost us today.

Been a good Xmas period, taking 11 points from 15 and scoring 9 goals in our last 4 matches - not something I thought was gonna happen after the St. Johnstone game.

We have much to be excited about.

[Saorsa]

Andy, with the best will in the world that's rubbish. Look at the last 7 or 8 games under Fenlon against Butcher's results and tell me there's not been a huge improvement.Correct, sticking by your opinion is one thing, complete denial like that is something else. Complete rubbish

[cabbageandribs1875]

FT TF :greengrin




the way it was going indeed :agree:

[QMU-1875]

ten points in the last 4 is very decent, we are moving in the right direction, shame we never held on but I think we will keep improving!

[Onion]

Disappointing to lose 2 late goals, but more signs of progress. Steady, steady does it for me.

Now let's get stuck into those sheep mollesters.

[Malthibby]

Butcher has taken the same players and turned them into a team I'm enjoying watching, & I don't remember the last time we took 10 from 12 at Xmas/NY, and one (narrow) defeat in 9 would have been entirely beyond the team under Fenlon.
Onwards etc.
GG

[PeeJay]

2 points dropped needlessly today, United will regard this as a great result - So annoying for the team, which overall produced a good showing - Stupid defensive blunders let them back into the game - we should have had this game sewn up earlier on. Good 2nd half performance from us until we gave away Goodwillie's goal, gave them a lift. Quite impressed by our work rate moving forward and pressuring them, the high line we played and the look we have - at last - of being a team on the park. We still need to sort out our defensive lapses though, and make more of our chances when we have them ....

[Sauzee6270]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

We would have crumbled in most of these game's, 1 defeat in 9 I'll take that:tbgwa::hibees:flag:

[inglisavhibs]

we looked a very tired leggy team last 15 mins

ALl stemmed from losing a very poor 1st goal tho...high punt between Nelson and williams didn't deal with it properly, into Goodwillie...turns his man easily and finishes

Wouldve taken a draw beforehand but disappointing in the end

Our Midfield seemed to disappear - Robbo looked injured too, surprised he wasnt subbed

We were at a wee disadvantage having played the derby on Thursday night which might explain the team flagging a bit towards the end. With United back to full strength it was a terrific result for us even though we lost a two goal lead. Now another tough one next weekend but who could have said a few months ago that we would be looking forward to an away match at Aberdeen. That said we still need some pace in our team so hopefully maybe a decent signing before January's out.

[Keith_M]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.


Are you for real?


You are so in denial I'm beginning to think you're a Hearts fan.

[Stax]

Would have taken a point before the game, at least we're scoring now & hopefully we get a couple of new faces in to freshen things up. GGTTH

[weonlywon6-2]

Utd suffered a sore defeat in a derby on Wed and had an extra day's rest - we put everything into Thursday and it maybe cost us today.

Been a good Xmas period, taking 11 points from 15 and scoring 9 goals in our last 4 matches - not something I thought was gonna happen after the St. Johnstone game.

We have much to be excited about.


Good post.Thursday took a lot out of us and we tend to stutter after a derby.Disappointing we didnt win today but the change in fortune is great


Another hard game on friday but at least we will have a decent rest.

GGTTH

[kevo1875]

Pity about the result but that's football ... I'm not complaining as the effort the boys are puting in now is great ggtth

[Big Frank]

game too soon after the derby. end of :greengrin:greengrin

...

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Poor poor concentration levels at the end

[Golden Bear]

Andy Fenlon seems almost pleased/relieved that United got two late goals against us.

[Glory Lurker]

On the plus side, another win would have had the Weegie media slavering that Butcher should go to The Rangers and Craig to Celtc.

[Thecat23]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

Andy I honestly think you have a gripe against TB. You can never seem to praise him. We are playing totally different football and shots on target proves this. He's miles and I mean MILES ahead already to what Fenlon had us playing.

You really need to move on from the pat love in because if this was a 2-2 draw with him in charge you would be bumming him up.

[Callum_62]

Fenlons last FOUR SPFL games saw us have 8 shots on target

2 per game

Butchers last four SPFL games saw us have 22 shots on target

5.5 per game

I know 110% who id rather have in charge of us

[JimBHibees]

We were at a wee disadvantage having played the derby on Thursday night which might explain the team flagging a bit towards the end. With United back to full strength it was a terrific result for us even though we lost a two goal lead. Now another tough one next weekend but who could have said a few months ago that we would be looking forward to an away match at Aberdeen. That said we still need some pace in our team so hopefully maybe a decent signing before January's out.

Spot on the extra 30 hours or so at this time of year is massive IMO. Disappointing to lose 2points so late but a decent return over this period.

[brog]

The fact we're disappointed at drawing at Tannadice she's how far we've come in recent games. Oh, & we've scored 1 goal less in our last 4 games than we did in our first 16!

[Northernhibee]

Think we ran out of energy at the end.

Good effort though.

[hfc rd]

Gutted to lose 3 points and settle for 1 in the last 7 mins. However at the start of the game, majority of folk here wouldn't have minded a point. It is a decent point and I believe we are heading in the right direction under TB & MM.

[steviehibsleith]

Baby steps :agree:
Shame we couldn't have held out for the victory but been a good xmas/new year period. Hopefully TB can get his 1 or 2 quality signings he mentioned in the paper today and things are looking good.

[Billy McKirdy]

Was that a .net meltdown?

Got a ( don't have permission to access ) message so went to the bounce for updates.

Had the same here. I'm presuming the donators were unaffected and freeloaders were. Or am I being cynical?

[seven nowt]

How disappointing after being 2-0 up. Match against Aberdeen is tricky and we could have done with a win leading up to it.

[Yuillsy]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.
Pat face facts you resigned. Nice to see you like to keep eye on things though!

[Saorsa]

Had the same here. I'm presuming the donators were unaffected and freeloaders were. Or am I being cynical?No you're correct

[SMAXXA]

We sat far too deep near the end and I feel an element of this result was self inflicted, feels like a defeat which in its self shows how far we have come under TB and MM.

[Andy74]

Andy, with the best will in the world that's rubbish. Look at the last 7 or 8 games under Fenlon against Butcher's results and tell me there's not been a huge improvement.

There's not.

Those last 7 or 8 games included wins against St Mirren, Partick and St Johnstone. We drew those fixtures this time. We drew against Celtic in that time too. We did lose to Aberdeen and Hearts.

It's great that we are doing pretty well but I don't think its unfair to point out that it's not such a huge leap as it's being suggested.

We were sixth and five points off second incidentally when the last manager left.

I'm just commenting on the comments about how we would have done this or that previously that keep coming up. Not having a go at Butcher.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

Eh?:crazy::hilarious

[B.H.F.C]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

Butcher just won two games on the trot at home. The same number Pat managed in 10 months in the league.

He's had two big games IMO (the cup game and the derby) and won them both. He's raised spirits and got 20k through the gate. What more do you want in the space of 9 games?

[Stringer]

No fish supper for the boys. Need to learn how to kill off a game.

[trev the hat]

In the last eight games we've only played 2 teams above us, losing by the odd goal in Glasgow & losing 2 late goals to the leagues 2nd top scorers.
Whilst disappointed in the manner of today's point, remember we've won there once in 14 attempts. I'll settle for achieving a home record like that ourselves asap please.
Well done Hibs on a tough festive period.

[TheFamous1875]

We were at a wee disadvantage having played the derby on Thursday night which might explain the team flagging a bit towards the end. With United back to full strength it was a terrific result for us even though we lost a two goal lead. Now another tough one next weekend but who could have said a few months ago that we would be looking forward to an away match at Aberdeen. That said we still need some pace in our team so hopefully maybe a decent signing before January's out.

That's roughly my attitude. Although I'm gutted we never got the three points, which we more than merited for 80 mins, I'm over the moon that we've progressed this much in such a short space of time. I'd've happily taken a draw today. Before Butcher came in, there was no way we'd expect to see our squad completely dominate for most of 80 mins against this Utd side.

So, with regards to the transformation, I'm over the moon. However, I remain gutted that we couldn't hold on! Fatigue could've played a massive part in that, which is a shame, but I trust in Butcher's approach to handling our team.

If this is early doors, I can't wait for last orders!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[HiBremian]

Baby steps :agree:
Shame we couldn't have held out for the victory but been a good xmas/new year period. Hopefully TB can get his 1 or 2 quality signings he mentioned in the paper today and things are looking good.

:agree: I'd say a draw at Tannadice confirms us as a worthy top 6 side. Patience needed.

[Beefster]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

I knew, after United equalised, that I'd come on here to find a comment from you about how Fenlon wasn't really that bad.

Your obsession with bumming up Fenlon's record and playing down Butcher's achievements is now verging on Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.

Edit: For the record, Fenlon's points per league game at Hibs in 13/14 is 1.36. Butcher's is 1.71. In other words, Butcher has them earning 25% more points. I'm not sure what is 'great' to you but that'll do me for starters.

[Hibbyradge]

I think the extra day's rest helped United in the end.

Our guys must have been knackered after Thursday night so to play that well for 83 minutes is laudable.

The debate about Fenlon's results is irrelevant. Butcher has us playing much better and regularly creating more chances than we have for years.

It's a most welcome change.

[Keith_M]

Which bits are wrong?


It's called selective choosing of statistics.


Oh aye, and Hearts. If you remember correctly, we were beaten twice by them under Fenlon's watch this season. Butcher has a 100% win record in the Edinburgh Derby. Endof, FACT, etc.


You are entitled to your views but they're apparently not shared by the people that decided to fill out Easter Road on Thursday for the first time since the re-build was finished. over 16,000 people seem to think we're better under Butcher.

[RyeSloan]

Gutted to lose 2 late on but maybe no surprise.

Still we look a proper football team now and that's all most fans wanted...you can take the ofd set back when yer competing in all your games and winning the last two at home.

[hfc rd]

No fish supper for the boys. Need to learn how to kill off a game.


Maybe half a fish single each?

[jonty]

Andy, ignoring the Malmo game and concentrating on league/cup games since the start of the season.




PF
TB


Total Hibs Games
15
9


Total Hibs Goals
14
11


Total Conceded
18
5


Points (assuming a win is 3 for cup games)
17
16


Hibs Goals/game
0.9333
1.222


Avg against/game
1.2
0.555


Avg Points/game
1.133
1.777



I think you'd agree that the results show TB has got more from the same group of players than PF did.
Not just a little, but a huge improvement.

[Onion]

I think the extra day's rest helped United in the end.

Our guys must have been knackered after Thursday night so to play that well for 83 minutes is laudable.

The debate about Fenlon's results is irrelevant. Butcher has us playing much better and regularly creating more chances than we have for years.

It's a most welcome change.

Fenlon and Fenlon's team forgot what the purpose of the game was - to score goals and win games. That's pretty damning for any manager. TB has us scoring goals again (9 in 4 games) and tighter at the back. No question we've made massive progress after Fenlon.

[Yuillsy]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.
Pat face facts you resigned. Nice to see you like to keep eye on things though!

[Pete]

The usual boring, negative overreaction from the same posters raise their head again.


...and Andy,


Just gonnae no. :greengrin:

[Saorsa]

Pat face facts you resigned. Nice to see you like to keep eye on things though!


Pat face facts you resigned. Nice to see you like to keep eye on things though!He only resigned once though :wink: :greengrin

[Onion]

Andy, ignoring the Malmo game and concentrating on league/cup games since the start of the season.




PF
TB


Total Hibs Games
15
9


Total Hibs Goals
14
11


Total Conceded
18
5


Points (assuming a win is 3 for cup games)
17
16


Hibs Goals/game
0.9333
1.222


Avg against/game
1.2
0.555


Avg Points/game
1.133
1.777



I think you'd agree that the results show TB has got more from the same group of players than PF did.
Not just a little, but a huge improvement.

Anyone who's seen the last 4 or 5 games shouldn't need stats to prove there's been big progress. Patently obvious to any Hibs fan.

[Cropley10]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

Give it a little while longer and will it be clear, by any measure, that Pat Fenlon was one of the worst managers we've ever had.

Never mind 5-1, 3-0 and a 7 nil stuffing at home but the sheer mind-numbing pedestrian football on offer was enough to turn thousands away.

Pat Fenlon was a disaster and you frankly are just a TROLL!

[number9dream]

2011 last time we won 4 on the bounce

I'm blaming this guy... :-)

Easy with hindsight but maybe Heff & Robbo should have gone off on 75 mins along with Cairney.
Need to get some ice on those weary limbs, lift the heads and get ready to go again.
Good return over a busy schedule.

[Beefster]

It's great that we are doing pretty well but I don't think its unfair to point out that it's not such a huge leap as it's being suggested.

As has been pointed out by myself and monty, you're wrong.

As Hibbyradge says, the football itself is on a different level.

[Yuillsy]

He only resigned once though :wink: :greengrin

I just wish it was twice!

[inglisavhibs]

There's not.

Those last 7 or 8 games included wins against St Mirren, Partick and St Johnstone. We drew those fixtures this time. We drew against Celtic in that time too. We did lose to Aberdeen and Hearts.

It's great that we are doing pretty well but I don't think its unfair to point out that it's not such a huge leap as it's being suggested.

We were sixth and five points off second incidentally when the last manager left.

I'm just commenting on the comments about how we would have done this or that previously that keep coming up. Not having a go at Butcher.
Forget the results, there is a massive difference in the team. We can now compete against everybody bar Celtic. We still need a few players but compared to recent Hibs teams the progress is there for all to see. Maybe you are on the wind up?

[Saorsa]

The debate about Fenlon's results is irrelevant. Butcher has us playing much better and regularly creating more chances than we have for years.

It's a most welcome change.Excellent point, I actually want tae go along and watch us now rather it feeling like a chore and wanting tae poke my eyes out efter about 10 minutes. Night and day :agree:

[Beefster]

Excellent point, I actually want tae go along and watch us now rather it feeling like a chore and wanting tae poke my eyes out efter about 10 minutes. Night and day :agree:

You and thousands more of us, DD.

[RSS Bot]

United hit back to snatch point



More... (http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/20140105/dundee-united-2-hibernian-2_2262950_3605179)

[Gus Fring]

Personally if at the start of the week you'd have offered me Thursdays sellout and win and then a point against a Dundee United team who were scoring for fun a few weeks ago I'd have snapped your hand off.

That being said throwing away a 2-0 lead is tough to swallow.

[MWHIBBIES]

Love how people can't make an argument on here anymore without making Fenlon out to be much worse than he actually was.

Butcher is doing a great job so far but to call Fenlon a disaster and one of out worst managers is embarrassing, even worse is that someone with a different opinion is shot down in flames.

[cleanyman]

We seem to have a real problem at this ground now after dominating Dundee United for years.

[Heisenberg]

Fenlon is gone. He was a brutal manager who knew he couldn't take us further. Time to move on. Poor result today considering our position in the match. A point would've been an ok result beforehand but it feels like a defeat now. Maybe just a case of games catching up to us and United having a very good side when going forward.

[Stevie Reid]

In the St. Mirren, Partick and St. Johnstone games there wasn't much improvement in terms of chances created and excitement generated, though we did do things more quickly than under Fenlon, and had had a couple of very good away performances to Celtic in the league, and Ross County in the cup.

However, the Killie and Hearts games were light years away from the Fenlon performances this season, and we've also had two very good away results at RC and United in that time.

I feel excited about Hibs for the first time in a good while, and it seems many others do too - that's Butcher's doing.

I think Fenlon's legacy in terms of the strength of squad left behind may actually be better than many have made out. But it was time for him to go, without a doubt.

[Sir David Gray]

Can't believe we didn't win that. We looked totally comfortable right up until they made it 2-1. They then bombarded us for the last 10 minutes or so and got the equaliser

Absolutely gutted.

[Dashing Bob S]

Yes they were there for the taking and we blew it today, but we are making fantastic progress. Under PF United would have regarded us as a soft touch to get them back to winning ways.

Tel will be annoyed that we couldn't hold that lead, but he and MM are learning more about the players every day, and we'll continue to improve. Feels good to be a Hibee right now - bring on the Dons!

[SaulGoodman]

I'm blaming this guy... :-)

Easy with hindsight but maybe Heff & Robbo should have gone off on 75 mins along with Cairney.
Need to get some ice on those weary limbs, lift the heads and get ready to go again.
Good return over a busy schedule.

15 minutes left and it seemed in the bag, oh Hibs. :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Love how people can't make an argument on here anymore without making Fenlon out to be much worse than he actually was.

Butcher is doing a great job so far but to call Fenlon a disaster and one of out worst managers is embarrassing, even worse is that someone with a different opinion is shot down in flames.


The poster you're referring too is having serious problems accepting anything positive about Butcher because of some obsession with Fenlon. This is manifested on a regular basis by his constantly harping on about it and selectively quoting statistics to suit his own agenda

Are you saying it's wrong to produce counter arguments, allied to facts?

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I feel as we dominated the derby for most of the 90 minutes it would tell on the legs in the last 10 minutes today, gutted to lose 2 points but Tannadice isn't an easy place to win these days.

Onwards and upwards boys! :agree:

[Beefster]

Love how people can't make an argument on here anymore without making Fenlon out to be much worse than he actually was.

Butcher is doing a great job so far but to call Fenlon a disaster and one of out worst managers is embarrassing, even worse is that someone with a different opinion is shot down in flames.

I totally respect your right to hold that opinion but I'm afraid that I cannot share said thoughts.

[Stewboy]

Have we not drawn with United 2-2 quite a few times in the last couple of years?

[eastterrace]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

I know everybody has an opinion but lets try and make it serious as this is just garbage. we sell out first time , have lost one game in 8 playing more attacking football also im looking forward to going to the matches now and then i read this sorry mate but dont think you know what your talking about imo.:confused:

[BroxburnHibee]

I know everybody has an opinion but lets try and make it serious as this is just garbage. we sell out first time , have lost one game in 8 playing more attacking football also im looking forward to going to the matches now and then i read this sorry mate but dont think you know what your talking about imo.:confused:

I've edited your post.

Think we can leave the personal stuff out of it please - all opinions are welcome here.

[eastterrace]

I've edited your post.

Think we can leave the personal stuff out of it please - all opinions are welcome here.

sorry will try to keep it under control next time.

[Kato]

I've edited your post.

Think we can leave the personal stuff out of it please - all opinions are welcome here.

I hope you recycled the edited words onto the Gary Locke thread?

[down-the-slope]

Had to visit parents (cancelled from boxing day) in fife so not able to be there (they said to go...but family first) after nice meal had a quick check...0-1 :greengrin.......booking some tickets for dad later on...had another look 0-2 :greengrin (61 mins) very happy...

got in car to come back and thought I would listen to last 15/20 mins...dons match on and little mention of anything else...imagine my surprise when it cuts to Tannadice.....'United pull level'..... disappointed...

Must say that a draw I would have settled for before hand.... but knowing it was 0-2 and thinking about suddenly being only 2 points behind United....hearing that sounded like a defeat....

Still progress non the less and without any new players...as my brother said...'Terry's at least getting a tune out them'...

[steviehibsleith]

I hear this every week now. The only teams recently we've had better results against than first time round was Raith and Hearts.

It's good we are unbeaten and doing fairly well but I don't think we should pretend it's any great leap results wise.

You will never find a rainbow if you are looking down

To quote Charlie Chaplin

[truehibernian]

That's been a really testing and tricky last 5 games over the festive period, but break it down into positives please.

Back to back home wins which saw out the old and brought in the new year. We also seem to have conquered our Ross Countyitis having beaten them twice now under Terry Butcher. Goals from set pieces and players now attacking the ball and crosses. Our possession stats in every game is very pleasing as are our shots and corner statistics. There have also been a few clean sheets and the defence looks more positive. Certain players are now playing without fear and seem far far more confident on the ball, especially at home. Only one narrow defeat in nine and that was to the champions elect who are scoring for fun. Still in the Scottish Cup too :thumbsup:

And we won the derby in front of over 16,000 home fans and a >20,000 crowd.

Disappointing today admittedly but 11 points from 15, having played 5 very competitive games in 16 days - can we really complain ? Harris coming back, Cummings looking lively in games he's played, Forster solid, Hefferan back from injury and a window where TB has admitted he'll bolster the attack - it's hugely hugely positive.

And, all this, after a club was stunned and in mourning after one of our own sadly passed away - Hibernian have been united on and off the park and it's a joy to see. I'm incredibly proud of my club today :agree:

[21.05.2016]

If someone had offered me a draw at the strt of the day I would hae taken it, just a bit gutted about the manner of it though, 2-0 up with 8 mins or so left n loose 2 late goals is a bit of a sickener.

But hey, a few months ago we would never have even expected a point away to Dundee utd and now we are gutted with a point. Should have won it today but hey ho a points better than nothing and keeps the unbeaten run going.

[cleanyman]

Brought some crowd today as well

Big game on Friday, I think we'd be happy with the draw

[FitbaFolkKen]

I can appreciate where Andy is coming from, did we not have a 2-2 with Utd tail end of last,season where we lost a goal in the last five minutes to a dodgy penalty after coming back from one down? Lots of posts on this thread saying a result/performance such as today was unthinkable under Fenlon which is clearly untrue.

There is a fair bit of exaggeration as to how bad we were, but we have progressed under Butcher.

[Andy74]

I can appreciate where Andy is coming from, did we not have a 2-2 with Utd tail end of last,season where we lost a goal in the last five minutes to a dodgy penalty after coming back from one down? Lots of posts on this thread saying a result/performance such as today was unthinkable under Fenlon which is clearly untrue.

There is a fair bit of exaggeration as to how bad we were, but we have progressed under Butcher.

Thanks. That's all I mean.

There are countless little mentions of digs at Fenlon and suggestions we would never have been able to do this or that previously. I'm allowed to comment on all those am I not?

I'm very happy with Butcher though. I think the obsession lies with quite a few that still want to have a go at Fenlon now.

Perhaps in the next few weeks we can be as close to the teams above as as we were when Fenlon left if we carry on like this? :greengrin

[Beefster]

I can appreciate where Andy is coming from, did we not have a 2-2 with Utd tail end of last,season where we lost a goal in the last five minutes to a dodgy penalty after coming back from one down? Lots of posts on this thread saying a result/performance such as today was unthinkable under Fenlon which is clearly untrue.

There is a fair bit of exaggeration as to how bad we were, but we have progressed under Butcher.

If you take single games in isolation, you can prove just about anything.

[Andy74]

If you take single games in isolation, you can prove just about anything.

Agreed. So there are really only a couple of isolated games where Butcher has bettered the results we had against the teams from the last time we played them. :greengrin

[Saorsa]

Thanks. That's all I mean.

There are countless little mentions of digs at Fenlon and suggestions we would never have been able to do this or that previously. I'm allowed to comment on all those am I not?

I'm very happy with Butcher though. I think the obsession lies with quite a few that still want to have a go at Fenlon now.

Perhaps in the next few weeks we can be as close to the teams above as as we were when Fenlon left if we carry on like this? :greengrinI think it lies somewhere else :aok:

[lucky]

We played very well today but ran out of steam. I think TB made a mistake going 1 up front. It gave them time launch long balls in final few minutes.

[Borderhibbie76]

Anybody who doesnt think we have improved under Butcher is either blind or just plain stubborn. The legs went tge last 10 mins today...but overall a great performance today against a very good Dundee Utd side...

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[weonlywon6-2]

It doesnt take a magician to work out we have come a long way under terry butcher in such a short time.

Some folk will always see the world a gray coloured

[Baader]

Even a clown like Billy Brown would have a hard job trying to pretend there's no improvement under Butcher. He's not signed a player of his own yet either...

[FitbaFolkKen]

If you take single games in isolation, you can prove just about anything.

Of course you can, what's your point?

[Hibercelona]

Disappointing not to take all 3 points. But wouldn't be too hard on the lads. It's been a great run so far.

We'll be singing "We are unbeatable" soon enough. :duck:

[FitbaFolkKen]

It doesnt take a magician to work out we have come a long way under terry butcher in such a short time.

Some folk will always see the world a gray coloured

I haven't read a post that says we haven't improved? I think there is a universal belief that we are better.

[hibees 7062]

Excellent point, I actually want tae go along and watch us now rather it feeling like a chore and wanting tae poke my eyes out efter about 10 minutes. Night and day :agree:

:agree: 20,000 fans cant be wrong

[weonlywon6-2]

I haven't read a post that says we haven't improved? I think there is a universal belief that we are better.


You wouldnt think so according to some

[Stuarty27]

That was a much better performance that we had been watching under fenlon.

We absolutely cruised it for 80mins and should of won the game.

The only complaint I would have is I think taking off Heff for Tudor Jones didn't help us at all. It invited Utd on us and there was no out ball. Heff and Collins were linking up well and looking dangerous. Heff was tiring and needed fresh legs but I think it should of been one of the young lads to come on.

[Northernhibee]

Some of the passing in the Dundee United half today was very good - keeping a hold of the ball and getting it forward. There's an urgency there.

[ALF TUPPER]

Disappointed we didn't win today but lovin the fact I left Tannadice disappointed !
Lovin being a Hibby just now . GGTTH

[Slim Shady]

We played very well today but ran out of steam. I think TB made a mistake going 1 up front. It gave them time launch long balls in final few minutes.

Got to agree mate. Heff was knackered after putting in a great shift. Can see why we went with 5 in middle but left Collins up top on his own with no midfield pushing up to support caused us the draw.

Stanton for cairney caused problems too hence why Mo got him and Lewis to switch sides as Stanton was getting much luck.

Huge difference tho. I would be delighted with a draw under Pat. But gutted to 'lose' 2-2 today.

[BT58]

as regards to Andy ,,,,,, [or PF],,, this team was bought/signed by PF,,,However this team NEVER actually played as a TEAM. TB has however played the players in THEIR preferred positions, [although Forster may disagree].
TB has players who will be brought in,whom may take time to settle,,but will enhance this team,,today was a blip,[i actually had it as a draw],but TB has us going in the right direction,,RP will see that TB will get funding too push us on:flag::flag::flag::flag:

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Said before that I would have taken a draw and that still stands. As previous posters have commented, the subby for OTJ was a bit odd because the shape was fine and we could have gone like for like and stayed 4-4-2. For a defending point of view, for both teams, all the goals were self inflicted.

[500miles]

TB has made a difference to these players. I do, however, think it has helped that Paul Cairney has come back as a creative force and young Cummings has been proving himself in the reserves so well. Pat never really had those tools to play with this season.

Butcher will do well for us, but some Fenlon getting a harder time than he merited IMO. The injuries we had to deal with earlier this season were unreal.

[scoopyboy]

In any game if we are 2-0 up and end up drawing 2-2 then there's always going to be a feeling of disappointment, however I am encouraged by our form of late.

It wasn't too many games ago after the SJ game that posters were saying we were no different to the PF team and that TB hadn't improved matters.

Coming out the ground I was a bit down but on the journey home I thought it was the same players as pre TB and the man hasn't had a chance to bring in his own yet, so a draw doesn't seem so bad now (especially against a decent team which Utd are).

Until the last few games I wasn't overly impressed with Liam Craig but the difference in him recently is a joy to behold.

GGTTH.

[Billy Whizz]

In any game if we are 2-0 up and end up drawing 2-2 then there's always going to be a feeling of disappointment, however I am encouraged by our form of late.

It wasn't too many games ago after the SJ game that posters were saying we were no different to the PF team and that TB hadn't improved matters.

Coming out the ground I was a bit down but on the journey home I thought it was the same players as pre TB and the man hasn't had a chance to bring in his own yet, so a draw doesn't seem so bad now (especially against a decent team which Utd are).

Until the last few games I wasn't overly impressed with Liam Craig but the difference in him recently is a joy to behold.

GGTTH.

Me too, was disappointed at full time, but as I was driving home, I realised we've come a long way in a short time.
I'm sure Butcher/Malpas will have learned a lot from today's performance, loss of 2 points late on.

Couldn't understand putting on Jones at 2-1

[JimBHibees]

That's been a really testing and tricky last 5 games over the festive period, but break it down into positives please.

Back to back home wins which saw out the old and brought in the new year. We also seem to have conquered our Ross Countyitis having beaten them twice now under Terry Butcher. Goals from set pieces and players now attacking the ball and crosses. Our possession stats in every game is very pleasing as are our shots and corner statistics. There have also been a few clean sheets and the defence looks more positive. Certain players are now playing without fear and seem far far more confident on the ball, especially at home. Only one narrow defeat in nine and that was to the champions elect who are scoring for fun. Still in the Scottish Cup too :thumbsup:

And we won the derby in front of over 16,000 home fans and a >20,000 crowd.

Disappointing today admittedly but 11 points from 15, having played 5 very competitive games in 16 days - can we really complain ? Harris coming back, Cummings looking lively in games he's played, Forster solid, Hefferan back from injury and a window where TB has admitted he'll bolster the attack - it's hugely hugely positive.

And, all this, after a club was stunned and in mourning after one of our own sadly passed away - Hibernian have been united on and off the park and it's a joy to see. I'm incredibly proud of my club today :agree:

We'll said.

[shamo9]

Me too, was disappointed at full time, but as I was driving home, I realised we've come a long way in a short time.
I'm sure Butcher/Malpas will have learned a lot from today's performance, loss of 2 points late on.

Couldn't understand putting on Jones at 2-1

I can see the logic behind it at least. Just lost a goal, last ten minutes, let's park the bus and see the game out. Dundee United had nothing to lose and were always going to throw the kitchen sink at it with a fresh impetus after the first goal. Tough call for Butcher, not helped by an exceptionally nervy defence.

[Jonnyboy]

Thanks. That's all I mean.

There are countless little mentions of digs at Fenlon and suggestions we would never have been able to do this or that previously. I'm allowed to comment on all those am I not?

I'm very happy with Butcher though. I think the obsession lies with quite a few that still want to have a go at Fenlon now.

Perhaps in the next few weeks we can be as close to the teams above as as we were when Fenlon left if we carry on like this? :greengrin

Andy, I suspect that if you stop leaping to PF's defence so readily, the digs will peter out. PF did a lot of good things, doesn't deserve some of the nonsense posted about him but most importantly of all, he's gone and it's time we all moved on IMO

[Carheenlea]

Decent hibs support today?

11710

Borrowed from a friends FB - great support up today.

[Hibernia Na Eir]

Good result today. Well done Terrys Boys!

[mutley]

I was a little gutted today for a couple of reasons, I was freezing, went for a coffee and a pie before half time to beat the rush and missed the first goal, and then to see us concede 2 in the last few mins when I really though we had it in the bag.
But on reflection, 11 out of 15 and with the games being thick and fast, a point is a point and isn't a loss.

Oh and cheered up by Patrick's win

[3pm]

Dreadful at clearing the ball.

[cleanyman]

1st goal is so soft.

[RoxburghHibs]

Just got a message of an Arab mate who was at the game. He says we kicked them off the park and didn't deserve the win? Not heard this from anywhere else?

[mutley]

Just got a message of an Arab mate who was at the game. He says we kicked them off the park and didn't deserve the win? Not heard this from anywhere else?

Na he's talking out his erse!

[Jonnyboy]

Just got a message of an Arab mate who was at the game. He says we kicked them off the park and didn't deserve the win? Not heard this from anywhere else?

That's because it's bollox! One player from either side booked

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Just got hame from a right good day out in Carlisle, not chuffed to find out Young Boys of Gorgie have made up 2 goals on St Mirren! FFS! :-)

[Sir David Gray]

Just got a message of an Arab mate who was at the game. He says we kicked them off the park and didn't deserve the win? Not heard this from anywhere else?

Nonsense.

They were unhappy and getting a bit restless at a couple of decisions that went our way in the first half. That's probably what he's on about.

We didn't play dirty at all.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Masonic conspiracy?

[hfc rd]

11710

Borrowed from a friends FB - great support up today.



Looks excellent!

[hihohibby]

Us concede two? No chance.

1-2 for the cabbage! Heff and Robertson.

I wish I was not correct in guessing the result -especially when we were two goals up and leading right up to the last minute!

[Ronniekirk]

clean sheet for the defence plz :)
You can't always get what you want.We need to keep feet on the ground .This is work in progress Big Tell is goog but he is not a miracle worker Gutted we couldn't hold on to a 2 0 lead with less than ten to go that's an old failing that I did think may be behind us .

[Andy74]

I haven't read a post that says we haven't improved? I think there is a universal belief that we are better.

I think we are playing pretty well but when people talk aboiut how far we have improved I think it's being overplayed a bit. You don't get extra points for lots of speculative shots at goal.

Hopefully we start to do a bit more with those stats. For example for all the efforts at goal against Hearts the other night I thought we were less effetive than we'd been in the cup game. We probably worked the keeper a lot more last time out - but we did win and probably kept going more than we did previously with the shots and crosses.

There probably is a univeral belief that we are better but then again I'm not sure we were getting the credit for some of the results we previously had. And I totally agree that either way we should be higher up the table than we are and getting better results more regularly.

Finally, one way to judge whether we are far better is to look at the the results this same set of players have got against the same teams. I don't think that can be said to be selective - they are the games we have played against those teams.

Butcher has taken 13 points for those games. We had taken 15 from those teams first time around.

What I wouldn't argue with is that I think in a few months time we will be hopefully better than we are now and have a bit of pace and creativity. I think that would have been added anyway but the current coaching and scouting team have a good record of getting the right players.

That's a different thing from the constant references to how much better we've been than before. Not really so if we are talking about results.

[Beefster]

I think we are playing pretty well but when people talk aboiut how far we have improved I think it's being overplayed a bit. You don't get extra points for lots of speculative shots at goal.

Hopefully we start to do a bit more with those stats. For example for all the efforts at goal against Hearts the other night I thought we were less effetive than we'd been in the cup game. We probably worked the keeper a lot more last time out - but we did win and probably kept going more than we did previously with the shots and crosses.

There probably is a univeral belief that we are better but then again I'm not sure we were getting the credit for some of the results we previously had. And I totally agree that either way we should be higher up the table than we are and getting better results more regularly.

Finally, one way to judge whether we are far better is to look at the the results this same set of players have got against the same teams. I don't think that can be said to be selective - they are the games we have played against those teams.

Butcher has taken 13 points for those games. We had taken 15 from those teams first time around.

What I wouldn't argue with is that I think in a few months time we will be hopefully better than we are now and have a bit of pace and creativity. I think that would have been added anyway but the current coaching and scouting team have a good record of getting the right players.

That's a different thing from the constant references to how much better we've been than before. Not really so if we are talking about results.

As has already been pointed out to you, Butcher's points per league game this season is about 25% better than Fenlon's.

As has already been pointed out to you, the complaints were also about the football we were being subjected to under Fenlon.

Arguing that we were more effective in a game that we failed to score and were beaten than in a game we scored twice and won is a new one though! Incidentally, the naked stats don't back up your assertion about the two most recent Hearts games either.

[Peevemor]

I think we are playing pretty well but when people talk aboiut how far we have improved I think it's being overplayed a bit. You don't get extra points for lots of speculative shots at goal.


Andy, I really liked Fenlon as a bloke, I like the majority of players he brought in and the professionalism he instilled throughout the club. However, the periods of football that were good to watch were few and far between.

I have a Hibs TV subscription and latterly under PF I hardly used it. I was losing interest.

Under Butcher I don't want to miss a minute of any match. I was searching frantically yesterday to find a stream to watch the game and in the end listened to the entire 90 minute Hibs TV commentary - I would have done neither under PF for the same fixture.

We can argue over statistics etc. all day but basically, and I don't think I'm alone in this, Terry Butcher has given me my Hibs' mojo back.

Long may it continue.

[FitbaFolkKen]

I think we are playing pretty well but when people talk aboiut how far we have improved I think it's being overplayed a bit. You don't get extra points for lots of speculative shots at goal.

Hopefully we start to do a bit more with those stats. For example for all the efforts at goal against Hearts the other night I thought we were less effetive than we'd been in the cup game. We probably worked the keeper a lot more last time out - but we did win and probably kept going more than we did previously with the shots and crosses.

There probably is a univeral belief that we are better but then again I'm not sure we were getting the credit for some of the results we previously had. And I totally agree that either way we should be higher up the table than we are and getting better results more regularly.

Finally, one way to judge whether we are far better is to look at the the results this same set of players have got against the same teams. I don't think that can be said to be selective - they are the games we have played against those teams.

Butcher has taken 13 points for those games. We had taken 15 from those teams first time around.

What I wouldn't argue with is that I think in a few months time we will be hopefully better than we are now and have a bit of pace and creativity. I think that would have been added anyway but the current coaching and scouting team have a good record of getting the right players.

That's a different thing from the constant references to how much better we've been than before. Not really so if we are talking about results.

I can see your points and think you get a pretty hard time for a view that isnt really that controversial.

My point about us being better being a universal opinion is an assumption of course, however the crowd at the derby would suggest the feel good factor is back at easter road. Back to back league wins at home is something we haven't seen for a while.

I think you need to look beyond the points and long term there are definitely signs that we will continue to improve. You can see the level of confidence increase in players.

I'm hoping we are at the start of a special few years.

[B.H.F.C]

I think we are playing pretty well but when people talk aboiut how far we have improved I think it's being overplayed a bit. You don't get extra points for lots of speculative shots at goal.

Hopefully we start to do a bit more with those stats. For example for all the efforts at goal against Hearts the other night I thought we were less effetive than we'd been in the cup game. We probably worked the keeper a lot more last time out - but we did win and probably kept going more than we did previously with the shots and crosses.

There probably is a univeral belief that we are better but then again I'm not sure we were getting the credit for some of the results we previously had. And I totally agree that either way we should be higher up the table than we are and getting better results more regularly.

Finally, one way to judge whether we are far better is to look at the the results this same set of players have got against the same teams. I don't think that can be said to be selective - they are the games we have played against those teams.

Butcher has taken 13 points for those games. We had taken 15 from those teams first time around.

What I wouldn't argue with is that I think in a few months time we will be hopefully better than we are now and have a bit of pace and creativity. I think that would have been added anyway but the current coaching and scouting team have a good record of getting the right players.

That's a different thing from the constant references to how much better we've been than before. Not really so if we are talking about results.

Some really bizarre stuff there. We were less effective than in the cup game despite scoring two and winning this one?

And if you want to talk about results then butcher has taken more points per game thus far. Something you seem to overlook.

[Heisenberg]

The assumption from Andy that Fenlon would've added pace and creativity anyway is something I'm struggling to get my head around. He had several transfer windows to sort that problem yet he failed to do so.

[Twa Cairpets]

I think we are playing pretty well but when people talk about how far we have improved I think it's being overplayed a bit. You don't get extra points for lots of speculative shots at goal.
Actually, you do. If your percentage conversion over a period of time is the same, then the more shots you have the more you will score. Interesting book called "The numbers game - everything you knew about football is wrong". I'd suggest reading it. If making me - and, apparently literally thousands of others - excited again about going to games isn't a measure of improvement as well, then I think you;re just plain wrong.


Hopefully we start to do a bit more with those stats. For example for all the efforts at goal against Hearts the other night I thought we were less effetive than we'd been in the cup game. We probably worked the keeper a lot more last time out - but we did win and probably kept going more than we did previously with the shots and crosses.

There probably is a univeral belief that we are better but then again I'm not sure we were getting the credit for some of the results we previously had. And I totally agree that either way we should be higher up the table than we are and getting better results more regularly.
I know you're a Fenlon devotee but you judge a team not only be the results/stats - which are indisputably better - but also by the way in which the fans react to the team. If you think for a nanosecond that things aren't better now than a few weeks ago then I don't understand how you watch your football.


Finally, one way to judge whether we are far better is to look at the the results this same set of players have got against the same teams. I don't think that can be said to be selective - they are the games we have played against those teams.

Butcher has taken 13 points for those games. We had taken 15 from those teams first time around.

What I wouldn't argue with is that I think in a few months time we will be hopefully better than we are now and have a bit of pace and creativity. I think that would have been added anyway but the current coaching and scouting team have a good record of getting the right players.

That's a different thing from the constant references to how much better we've been than before. Not really so if we are talking about results.
It's not a fair comparison to look at the snapshot that you are taking in isolation, as they are not comparable on a one-to-one basis anyway due to home/away. You need to look at the record he has compared to the record in the immediately preceding games as a group rather than cherry pick individual teams/games. We're at the point where the stats become meaningful as there are enough of them, and it has been illustrated that we are doing better.

[Andy74]

I can see your points and think you get a pretty hard time for a view that isnt really that controversial.

My point about us being better being a universal opinion is an assumption of course, however the crowd at the derby would suggest the feel good factor is back at easter road. Back to back league wins at home is something we haven't seen for a while.

I think you need to look beyond the points and long term there are definitely signs that we will continue to improve. You can see the level of confidence increase in players.

I'm hoping we are at the start of a special few years.

I agree and hope that we are!

[--------]

Excellent point, I actually want tae go along and watch us now rather it feeling like a chore and wanting tae poke my eyes out efter about 10 minutes. Night and day :agree:


Indeed, Dan. Even I, who swore a mighty oath never to go back until there were clear signs of genuine change and progress intend (DV) to be at ER for the St Mirren game.

I don't consider PF the worst Hibernian manager in my lifetime - that accolade has to go to the late and unlamented Colon Caldercouldn't. Pat at least left Terry B a far more viable squad of players to work with than the miscellaneous rag-and-tag bunch he inherited from Colon. For that at least we should be grateful to the guy.

But differences? Of course there are.

The team gave total commitment from start to finish on Thursday night.

Even when Hearts equalised ( a bad goal to lose IMO) the players regrouped and got themselves organised to win the game.

Lewis Stevenson, Paul Hanlon, Paul Cairney and others look completely transformed.

Passes that once went sideways or backwards are now going forward into the channels to allow strikers and midfield players to make the runs they should have been making from the start of the season.

Hibs are an attacking team again.

Thursday evening saw by far our biggest home gate for years; yesterday was by far our best away attendance (apart from Tynecastle and Parkhead) of the season. Even the netters are (with a few notable exceptions) happy and positive in their minds for the first time in years.

I don't think anyone is saying that we're out of the woods yet. TB himself is very clear that there's a huge amount of work still to be done - including the reinforcement of the squad.

We were grateful to scrape a draw with United at home in the autumn - yesterday we were disappointed not to beat them at Tannadice. We played well against Hearts in the League Cup tie - until they scored. Then our confidence collapsed and we lost the game.

Even if we DON'T make signings this month I would be reasonably hopeful that we'll make the top 6 this season. There's no doubt in my mind that Butcher, Malpas and Marsella have already made a major difference to the team and the club. Anyone who doesn't see that doesn't want to.

[hibeedonald]

Butcher hasn't even signed a player yet and we have already noticeably improved. That being said, I would say some people were getting a little over excited!

[Diclonius]

I think we are playing pretty well but when people talk aboiut how far we have improved I think it's being overplayed a bit. You don't get extra points for lots of speculative shots at goal.

Hopefully we start to do a bit more with those stats. For example for all the efforts at goal against Hearts the other night I thought we were less effetive than we'd been in the cup game. We probably worked the keeper a lot more last time out - but we did win and probably kept going more than we did previously with the shots and crosses.

There probably is a univeral belief that we are better but then again I'm not sure we were getting the credit for some of the results we previously had. And I totally agree that either way we should be higher up the table than we are and getting better results more regularly.

Finally, one way to judge whether we are far better is to look at the the results this same set of players have got against the same teams. I don't think that can be said to be selective - they are the games we have played against those teams.

Butcher has taken 13 points for those games. We had taken 15 from those teams first time around.

What I wouldn't argue with is that I think in a few months time we will be hopefully better than we are now and have a bit of pace and creativity. I think that would have been added anyway but the current coaching and scouting team have a good record of getting the right players.

That's a different thing from the constant references to how much better we've been than before. Not really so if we are talking about results.

In the league this season, average points per game:
Fenlon: 1.36
Butcher: 1.62

Goals scored per league game:
Fenlon: 0.82
Butcher: 1.25

Goals conceded per league game:
Fenlon: 1.00
Butcher: 0.63

Wins/losses against Hearts this season:
Fenlon: 0/2
Butcher: 1/0

[The_Horde]

In the league this season, average points per game:
Fenlon: 1.36
Butcher: 1.62

Goals scored per league game:
Fenlon: 0.82
Butcher: 1.25

Goals conceded per league game:
Fenlon: 1.00
Butcher: 0.63

Wins/losses against Hearts this season:
Fenlon: 0/2
Butcher: 1/0

And butcher's not even signed an Irishman yet.

TBGAWA!