The Alex Miller Era

[The Sea-gull]

Anyone else haunted by the last couple of years reminding you of the worse elements of Alex Miller's time at Hibs?

We don't score much, we don't concede many and we draw a lot of games. The only reversal is that our poor away record has been replaced by a poor home record. Generally it was the other way round under Miller.

Our games all seem to be 1-0 either way, 1-1 or 0-0. There is the odd 2-0 or 3-0 defeat and the odd 2-1 win but in the main it is the only binary 1-0, 0-0, 1-1, 0-1 type results.

As an aside to our poor scoring form, despite our much maligned defence (I have had a go at some of our defenders) we have conceded the fourth least in the league. Only one more than ICT (third least) and three more than Dundee Utd and Celtic who have the two meanest defences.

[Golden Bear]

Anyone else haunted by the last couple of years reminding you of the worse elements of Alex Miller's time at Hibs?

We don't score much, we don't concede many and we draw a lot of games. The only reversal is that our poor away record has been replaced by a poor home record. Generally it was the other way round under Miller.

Our games all seem to be 1-0 either way, 1-1 or 0-0. There is the odd 2-0 or 3-0 defeat and the odd 2-1 win but in the main it is the only binary 1-0, 0-0, 1-1, 0-1 type results.

As an aside to our poor scoring form, despite our much maligned defence (I have had a go at some of our defenders) we have conceded the fourth least in the league. Only one more than ICT (third least) and three more than Dundee Utd and Celtic who have the two meansest defences.

Maybe it's an age thing and I'm harder to please these days (some would say grumpy in fact:grr:,) but in terms of the lack of entertainment then I feel that the last three seasons have even surpassed the drudgery of the Miller times.

[clerriehibs]

Anyone else haunted by the last couple of years reminding you of the worse elements of Alex Miller's time at Hibs?

We don't score much, we don't concede many and we draw a lot of games. The only reversal is that our poor away record has been replaced by a poor home record. Generally it was the other way round under Miller.

Our games all seem to be 1-0 either way, 1-1 or 0-0. There is the odd 2-0 or 3-0 defeat and the odd 2-1 win but in the main it is the only binary 1-0, 0-0, 1-1, 0-1 type results.

As an aside to our poor scoring form, despite our much maligned defence (I have had a go at some of our defenders) we have conceded the fourth least in the league. Only one more than ICT (third least) and three more than Dundee Utd and Celtic who have the two meanest defences.

No. This worse. We had players back then ... McGinlay, Jackson, Crunchie, Weir, Wright. Now we've just got a load of barely interested journeymen.

[Pretty Boy]

I think my memory of the Miller years is somewhat rose tinted as i was just young at the time so that was 'my team'.

The last 3 or 4 years has been worse than i remember the Miller years, although how accurate that is i'm not sure.

[Saorsa]

Maybe it's an age thing and I'm harder to please these days (some would say grumpy in fact:grr:,) but in terms of the lack of entertainment then I feel that the last three seasons have even surpassed the drudgery of the Miller times.Have tae say I find myself agreeing with this. Think the age thing might be part of it too though, it was definitely mair fun when I was younger even if the fitba wisnae much better, also much cheaper and that may also have something tae do with it.

[The Sea-gull]

I think the key to my OP is the "worse elements of the Miller era".

The Miller era was not all bad and I have fond memories of the Andy Goram, John Collins, Paul Kane, Steve Archibald team circa 87-89.

I also enjoyed the Weir, MacLeod, McGinlay, Wright Skol cup team of 91/92 and too the McAllister, McGinlay, Jackson, Harper, Wright and O'Neil group of 93 - 95.

The Leighton-Miller-Tweed-Hunter-Mitchell defence of the latter team was solid and Miller managed to get the attacking side of that team right to produce a good balanced team but it didn't last long.

The worst elements on the Miller era were the teams around 89/90 and 90/91 when we were particularly dire results and entertainment wise and it was his horror calendar year of 1996 which led to his departure and set us along the road to relegation in 1998.

I recall the "worse elements" of the Miller era as being fairly similar if not worse in terms of league placing than the last couple of years. Entertainment wise definitely on a par with the 2010s Hibs.

[Andy74]

No matter how many times this is asked the answer is still no. We had moments and we had decent players but they were largely very badly used. For the sheer length of time we had to endure the depths that era was a lot worse.

[Bishop Hibee]

Yes. We were talking about this after the game. Similar to Miller's team of the 80's. The difference is when it was only 2 points for a win a draw was a better result than it is now.

Take Stokes and Griffiths out our recent teams and we'd be looking forward to derbies v Hertz next season.

While I'm not a fan of Butcher's style of play, at least he has a plan and when he gets in players that suit it we will climb the table.

[The Sea-gull]

No matter how many times this is asked the answer is still no. We had moments and we had decent players but they were largely very badly used. For the sheer length of time we had to endure the depths that era was a lot worse.

Amazed Miller lasted as long as he did. Maybe a sign of how football has changed as a result of the internet and forums like this. Shouts in the ground can be ignored and die down after a decent result. Message boards such as this give football club boards and the media a better idea of how fans think and feel and the rationale behind this feeling.

Just had a quick look at Miller's stats. He finished 9th, 6th, 5th, 7th and 9th in his first 5 seasons. He did oversee progress to begin with but these days he would have been gone after season 4 but definitely by season 5. He lasted another 5 seasons after this though the off the field issues in the early 90s bough him a bit of time then of course the Skol cup win and the building of a reasonably decent team took him through the early to mid 90s. Ultimately it was a failure to get that good team in the early to mid 90s playing to its full potenial consistently and a dreadful derby record that cost him his job.

[Hibbyradge]

This is a lot worse.

[Stevie Reid]

Have written a million posts about my memories of the Miller era, not going to go through it all again. In summary, pre-Bosman when there were only one or two signings every season, Miller genuinely built a team up until 1995, and it began to unravel a bit after that. However, Jim Duffy decimated what was still there in just over a year.

Duffy stands as a good example of what might have happened had a different man been in charge during the darkest days in our history, when we almost went under. To win a trophy so soon after was utterly miraculous, and I often thought that Miller wasn't given enough credit for that due to his Rangers history. However, some of the ridiculous nonsense written on here about John Collins shows that some people just don't seem to think that winning a trophy for a club who has won 9 major honours in 138 years is that big a deal, or deserves any credit.

The best Miller teams were great to watch, and in 1995 we finished a point off second, and lost as few matches as a Rangers team in the middle of 9 in a row. We had many cup semis and two final appearances, winning one - and, although it was undoubtedly his horrendous derby record that cost him in the end, we did have 3 wins against them in one season under Miller, which hasn't been done since. He also made some major coups in his signings, such as Steve Archibald, Murdo McLeod, and Andy Goram.

I was very young in the earliest days under Miller, but the last 3 years have easily been worse than the worst days under AM. We've hardly had a player worth watching these last 3 seasons, whilst even in the worst times under Miller we had the quality of Collins, Archibald, Weir, and more. The team that contained Wright, Jackson, McAllister, O'Neill and McGinlay was great to watch, and when you think about how many players you remember fondly from the Miller era, it may surprise you.

For a long time I've thought that history has judged Miller quite harshly, and I still think that way now. A look at where we were when he took over, and where we very quickly ended up after he left, says a lot.

[Stevie Reid]

Amazed Miller lasted as long as he did. Maybe a sign of how football has changed as a result of the internet and forums like this. Shouts in the ground can be ignored and die down after a decent result. Message boards such as this give football club boards and the media a better idea of how fans think and feel and the rationale behind this feeling.

Just had a quick look at Miller's stats. He finished 9th, 6th, 5th, 7th and 9th in his first 5 seasons. He did oversee progress to begin with but these days he would have been gone after season 4 but definitely by season 5. He lasted another 5 seasons after this though the off the field issues in the early 90s bough him a bit of time then of course the Skol cup win and the building of a reasonably decent team took him through the early to mid 90s. Ultimately it was a failure to get that good team in the early to mid 90s playing to its full potenial consistently and a dreadful derby record that cost him his job.

It's really impossible to compare that era to this one, as free transfers were a rarity pre-Bosman, when managers didn't have the scope to make wholesale changes the way they do now, with half a squad going and arriving every year. Miller's quality over quantity approach definitely paid dividends and the bigger fees we paid out for players in his time were always well spent.

[Saorsa]

This is a lot worse.You clearly havnae read post 7 :wink:

[tamig]

No matter how many times this is asked the answer is still no. We had moments and we had decent players but they were largely very badly used. For the sheer length of time we had to endure the depths that era was a lot worse.

Can't agree at all with that.

I've been watching home and away since season 79-80 and the past 3 seasons have been amongst the worse times I've seen. The Miller era doesn't come close to other periods during that time (Auld, Stanton, Duffy, Calderwood) in my opinion. As others have mentioned there were a few good spells during that Miller time.

[theonlywayisup]

Anyone else haunted by the last couple of years reminding you of the worse elements of Alex Miller's time at Hibs?

We don't score much, we don't concede many and we draw a lot of games. The only reversal is that our poor away record has been replaced by a poor home record. Generally it was the other way round under Miller.

Our games all seem to be 1-0 either way, 1-1 or 0-0. There is the odd 2-0 or 3-0 defeat and the odd 2-1 win but in the main it is the only binary 1-0, 0-0, 1-1, 0-1 type results.

As an aside to our poor scoring form, despite our much maligned defence (I have had a go at some of our defenders) we have conceded the fourth least in the league. Only one more than ICT (third least) and three more than Dundee Utd and Celtic who have the two meanest defences.

I recall a barren spell under Miller in the 87/88 season. Looking back our run of fixtures went (with Hibs score first):

Falkirk (H) 0-0
St. Mirren (H) 0-0
Hertz (A) 0-0
Aberdeen (H) 0-0
Celtic (A) 0-2
Morton (A) 1-1
Dumbarton (A) 0-0
Dumbarton (H) 3-0

As I had missed the Morton away game, I had gone many minutes without seeing a Hibs goal. I went to the SC tie away to Dumbarton, hoping for a goal, but saw a goalless draw. In the replay, I was about five minues late getting into the ground to hear that Hibs had just been awarded a penalty.....only to see it missed (by Kano, I think). At least Hibs went on to win the game 3-0.

[Andy74]

I recall a barren spell under Miller in the 87/88 season. Looking back our run of fixtures went (with Hibs score first):

Falkirk (H) 0-0
St. Mirren (H) 0-0
Hertz (A) 0-0
Aberdeen (H) 0-0
Celtic (A) 0-2
Morton (A) 1-1
Dumbarton (A) 0-0
Dumbarton (H) 3-0

As I had missed the Morton away game, I had gone many minutes without seeing a Hibs goal. I went to the SC tie away to Dumbarton, hoping for a goal, but saw a goalless draw. In the replay, I was about five minues late getting into the ground to hear that Hibs had just been awarded a penalty.....only to see it missed (by Kano, I think). At least Hibs went on to win the game 3-0.

90/91 was dire too.

Took until the end of Jan and a game against Clyde before we scored more than one goal in a game. We didn't do it again until March. We did get 3 at home to Dunfermline last home game to help us over the total 20 goals in the whole season.

[Saorsa]

Can't agree at all with that.

I've been watching home and away since season 79-80 and the past 3 seasons have been amongst the worse times I've seen. The Miller era doesn't come close to other periods during that time (Auld, Stanton, Duffy, Calderwood) in my opinion. As others have mentioned there were a few good spells during that Miller time.Auld Bertie, would have been proud of some of the stuff we've endured in the last 3 seasons

[Sammy7nil]

No matter how many times this is asked the answer is still no. We had moments and we had decent players but they were largely very badly used. For the sheer length of time we had to endure the depths that era was a lot worse.

Have to disagree Miller built at least 2 good teams O'Neil Jackson Crunchie and Wright was a great time to be a Hibby.
Of course there were dire years when we failed to win a away from home all season (or may have won the last game I can't recall) but this period has been un-interupted dross for at least 4 years. Teams come ER and dominate from the off we have rarely had over 50% possession at home and rarely look like scoring ever !

I may have rose tinted specs but this last 4 years have been dreadful with very very few high points, if you take sparky out the equation we would have had almost NIL entertainment.

[Sammy7nil]

I recall a barren spell under Miller in the 87/88 season. Looking back our run of fixtures went (with Hibs score first):

Falkirk (H) 0-0
St. Mirren (H) 0-0
Hertz (A) 0-0
Aberdeen (H) 0-0
Celtic (A) 0-2
Morton (A) 1-1
Dumbarton (A) 0-0
Dumbarton (H) 3-0

As I had missed the Morton away game, I had gone many minutes without seeing a Hibs goal. I went to the SC tie away to Dumbarton, hoping for a goal, but saw a goalless draw. In the replay, I was about five minues late getting into the ground to hear that Hibs had just been awarded a penalty.....only to see it missed (by Kano, I think). At least Hibs went on to win the game 3-0.

One loss in 8 those were the days :wink:

[Sammy7nil]

Have written a million posts about my memories of the Miller era, not going to go through it all again. In summary, pre-Bosman when there were only one or two signings every season, Miller genuinely built a team up until 1995, and it began to unravel a bit after that. However, Jim Duffy decimated what was still there in just over a year.

Duffy stands as a good example of what might have happened had a different man been in charge during the darkest days in our history, when we almost went under. To win a trophy so soon after was utterly miraculous, and I often thought that Miller wasn't given enough credit for that due to his Rangers history. However, some of the ridiculous nonsense written on here about John Collins shows that some people just don't seem to think that winning a trophy for a club who has won 9 major honours in 138 years is that big a deal, or deserves any credit.

The best Miller teams were great to watch, and in 1995 we finished a point off second, and lost as few matches as a Rangers team in the middle of 9 in a row. We had many cup semis and two final appearances, winning one - and, although it was undoubtedly his horrendous derby record that cost him in the end, we did have 3 wins against them in one season under Miller, which hasn't been done since. He also made some major coups in his signings, such as Steve Archibald, Murdo McLeod, and Andy Goram.

I was very young in the earliest days under Miller, but the last 3 years have easily been worse than the worst days under AM. We've hardly had a player worth watching these last 3 seasons, whilst even in the worst times under Miller we had the quality of Collins, Archibald, Weir, and more. The team that contained Wright, Jackson, McAllister, O'Neill and McGinlay was great to watch, and when you think about how many players you remember fondly from the Miller era, it may surprise you.

For a long time I've thought that history has judged Miller quite harshly, and I still think that way now. A look at where we were when he took over, and where we very quickly ended up after he left, says a lot.

Here Here or Hear Hear :agree: :greengrin

Totally agree as someone who went to every away game one season under Miller when we failed to win a game.

[Purple & Green]

However, Jim Duffy decimated what was still there

All that was really left was Leighton & Jackson, and they couldn't wait to bail when Duffy arrived. Duffy was hopeless, but the squad depth was so poor by 1996.

[--------]

I think the key to my OP is the "worse elements of the Miller era".

The Miller era was not all bad and I have fond memories of the Andy Goram, John Collins, Paul Kane, Steve Archibald team circa 87-89.

I also enjoyed the Weir, MacLeod, McGinlay, Wright Skol cup team of 91/92 and too the McAllister, McGinlay, Jackson, Harper, Wright and O'Neil group of 93 - 95.

The Leighton-Miller-Tweed-Hunter-Mitchell defence of the latter team was solid and Miller managed to get the attacking side of that team right to produce a good balanced team but it didn't last long.

The worst elements on the Miller era were the teams around 89/90 and 90/91 when we were particularly dire results and entertainment wise and it was his horror calendar year of 1996 which led to his departure and set us along the road to relegation in 1998.

I recall the "worse elements" of the Miller era as being fairly similar if not worse in terms of league placing than the last couple of years. Entertainment wise definitely on a par with the 2010s Hibs.


I know it's the done thing on this forum to go on and on about how dire everything was under Alex Miller, but you might bear in mid that the seasons 89/90 and 90/91 were played out in the context of the Wally Smirker takeover bid and the worst financial crisis in the club's history.

Alex Miller worked hard and effectively to hold the team together through that crisis, and it was almost entirely down to him that the club STF bought still had an effective first-team squad. I remember a press interview he gave not long after the news of Smirker's takeover had been announced when he was asked what happened if Hibs were relegated (we were bottom of the SPL at the time) - would there be a massive loss of the best players from the club? Alex stated simply and definitely that Hibs would NOT be relegated, and no players were leaving, and that Hibernian Football Club would survive. My memory of Alex Miller will be of the manager who held us together when a lesser man might have failed - or moved on sharpish to another job.

If you look at the dates you quote, 89-91 were the worst times, 91-95 were good years, and he left in 96. IMO to compare Alex Miller's work at ER to the shambles of Hughes and Calderwood is a gross insult to him.

A team of Leighton, Miller, Tweed, Hunter, Mitchell: McAllister, Hamilton, McGinlay, O'Neill; Jackson and Wright; with guys like Harper, Mickey Weir, Tam McIntyre, Budgie and others around wouldn't half suit me right now, and I saw enough of Hibs in those days to KNOW that the entertainment level the last three-four years doesn't compare in any way to what was on the field in the 1990's.

Oddly enough. the Youtube clips of Hibs in those days don't bear out the 'boring, boring' tag,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPvM-ghiWmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgDNxueTtA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLhCKR409Gw


The last few years have been an absolute all-time low in my memories of Hibs. No talent on the field, no direction in the boardroom, and no joy in being a Hibee at all.

Alex Miller did much, MUCH better for Hibs than some posters on this forum are ever likely to be willing to admit.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

I think my memory of the Miller years is somewhat rose tinted as i was just young at the time so that was 'my team'.

The last 3 or 4 years has been worse than i remember the Miller years, although how accurate that is i'm not sure.

I'm the same. I was so young in the Miller era that going to games was still a massive treat that I'd look forward to all week. Wright, Weir et al were genuine heroes and I remember being totally starstruck.

Trying to be I objective, I think the adult match day experience was probably much better back then (standing, better atmosphere, more away fans, better players) but you'd probably have to experience both eras as an adult to make a proper judgement.

[Andy74]

One loss in 8 those were the days :wink:

Aye. The end of October seems a long time ago.

[hhibs]

Have to disagree Miller built at least 2 good teams O'Neil Jackson Crunchie and Wright was a great time to be a Hibby.
Of course there were dire years when we failed to win a away from home all season (or may have won the last game I can't recall) but this period has been un-interupted dross for at least 4 years. Teams come ER and dominate from the off we have rarely had over 50% possession at home and rarely look like scoring ever !

I may have rose tinted specs but this last 4 years have been dreadful with very very few high points, if you take sparky out the equation we would have had almost NIL entertainment.


Totally agree.

For that matter there were no absolute humiliations the like of which which we have had to endure recently...need I identify them for anyone or is that a given?

[JustSimplyHibs]

I know it's the done thing on this forum to go on and on about how dire everything was under Alex Miller, but you might bear in mid that the seasons 89/90 and 90/91 were played out in the context of the Wally Smirker takeover bid and the worst financial crisis in the club's history.

Alex Miller worked hard and effectively to hold the team together through that crisis, and it was almost entirely down to him that the club STF bought still had an effective first-team squad. I remember a press interview he gave not long after the news of Smirker's takeover had been announced when he was asked what happened if Hibs were relegated (we were bottom of the SPL at the time) - would there be a massive loss of the best players from the club? Alex stated simply and definitely that Hibs would NOT be relegated, and no players were leaving, and that Hibernian Football Club would survive. My memory of Alex Miller will be of the manager who held us together when a lesser man might have failed - or moved on sharpish to another job.

If you look at the dates you quote, 89-91 were the worst times, 91-95 were good years, and he left in 96. IMO to compare Alex Miller's work at ER to the shambles of Hughes and Calderwood is a gross insult to him.

A team of Leighton, Miller, Tweed, Hunter, Mitchell: McAllister, Hamilton, McGinlay, O'Neill; Jackson and Wright; with guys like Harper, Mickey Weir, Tam McIntyre, Budgie and others around wouldn't half suit me right now, and I saw enough of Hibs in those days to KNOW that the entertainment level the last three-four years doesn't compare in any way to what was on the field in the 1990's.

Oddly enough. the Youtube clips of Hibs in those days don't bear out the 'boring, boring' tag,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPvM-ghiWmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgDNxueTtA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLhCKR409Gw


The last few years have been an absolute all-time low in my memories of Hibs. No talent on the field, no direction in the boardroom, and no joy in being a Hibee at all.

Alex Miller did much, MUCH better for Hibs than some posters on this forum are ever likely to be willing to admit.


:top marks Spot on!

Not only that but you have provided me with footage of my favorite goal of all time at Easter Road, Michael O'Neil v Motherwell - just sheer quality, in the second link. :thumbsup:

[superfurryhibby]

Totally agree.

For that matter there were no absolute humiliations the like of which which we have had to endure recently...need I identify them for anyone or is that a given?


Mmmmm 7-0 Ibrox, pretty humiliating. Also a few Derby drubbings that I've managed to erase from the memory banks.

Miller signed some fantastic players and was clearly backed with some big money at times. I was told that he himself lacked confidence in his players and in particular when the played Celtic and Rangers, he sought to contain rather than win. There are times when that strategy was probably sensible, but there are also times when one needs some bawz!

[jeffers]

I always have a bit of a soft spot for Alex Miller. I wrote to him about some of his team selections and received a letter back inviting me down to ER to chat with him. I went down one lunch time and he spent an hour chatting to me. He came across as a decent bloke. It wasn't that much longer that we won the Skol Cup and I spoke to him again at a civic reception the council held to honour our win. I was genuinely pleased for him that all his hard work had paid off.

Admittedly some of the spells under him were dire but they don't seem in memory to be as bad as some of the utter garbage I've seen this season. I no longer go to away games, so I've seen what is it THREE wins at home in the whole of 2013.

[Tom Hart RIP]

Went home and away for years when Miller was manager. I never took to him but can't argue with some of his signings ie Keith Darren Jackson, Michael Oneil, Pat McGinlay, Crunchie, Andy Goram, Jim Leighton Stevie Archibald, Murdo etc.
His record against Hearts who IMO had inferior players was dreadful however

[tamig]

I know it's the done thing on this forum to go on and on about how dire everything was under Alex Miller, but you might bear in mid that the seasons 89/90 and 90/91 were played out in the context of the Wally Smirker takeover bid and the worst financial crisis in the club's history.

Alex Miller worked hard and effectively to hold the team together through that crisis, and it was almost entirely down to him that the club STF bought still had an effective first-team squad. I remember a press interview he gave not long after the news of Smirker's takeover had been announced when he was asked what happened if Hibs were relegated (we were bottom of the SPL at the time) - would there be a massive loss of the best players from the club? Alex stated simply and definitely that Hibs would NOT be relegated, and no players were leaving, and that Hibernian Football Club would survive. My memory of Alex Miller will be of the manager who held us together when a lesser man might have failed - or moved on sharpish to another job.

If you look at the dates you quote, 89-91 were the worst times, 91-95 were good years, and he left in 96. IMO to compare Alex Miller's work at ER to the shambles of Hughes and Calderwood is a gross insult to him.

A team of Leighton, Miller, Tweed, Hunter, Mitchell: McAllister, Hamilton, McGinlay, O'Neill; Jackson and Wright; with guys like Harper, Mickey Weir, Tam McIntyre, Budgie and others around wouldn't half suit me right now, and I saw enough of Hibs in those days to KNOW that the entertainment level the last three-four years doesn't compare in any way to what was on the field in the 1990's.

Oddly enough. the Youtube clips of Hibs in those days don't bear out the 'boring, boring' tag,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPvM-ghiWmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgDNxueTtA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLhCKR409Gw


The last few years have been an absolute all-time low in my memories of Hibs. No talent on the field, no direction in the boardroom, and no joy in being a Hibee at all.

Alex Miller did much, MUCH better for Hibs than some posters on this forum are ever likely to be willing to admit.
Well said doddie. A lot of posters rightly mentioning the poor fare between 89 and mid 91 but you're the first who has put it in context.

[RIP Bestie]

I know it's the done thing on this forum to go on and on about how dire everything was under Alex Miller, but you might bear in mid that the seasons 89/90 and 90/91 were played out in the context of the Wally Smirker takeover bid and the worst financial crisis in the club's history.

Alex Miller worked hard and effectively to hold the team together through that crisis, and it was almost entirely down to him that the club STF bought still had an effective first-team squad. I remember a press interview he gave not long after the news of Smirker's takeover had been announced when he was asked what happened if Hibs were relegated (we were bottom of the SPL at the time) - would there be a massive loss of the best players from the club? Alex stated simply and definitely that Hibs would NOT be relegated, and no players were leaving, and that Hibernian Football Club would survive. My memory of Alex Miller will be of the manager who held us together when a lesser man might have failed - or moved on sharpish to another job.

If you look at the dates you quote, 89-91 were the worst times, 91-95 were good years, and he left in 96. IMO to compare Alex Miller's work at ER to the shambles of Hughes and Calderwood is a gross insult to him.

A team of Leighton, Miller, Tweed, Hunter, Mitchell: McAllister, Hamilton, McGinlay, O'Neill; Jackson and Wright; with guys like Harper, Mickey Weir, Tam McIntyre, Budgie and others around wouldn't half suit me right now, and I saw enough of Hibs in those days to KNOW that the entertainment level the last three-four years doesn't compare in any way to what was on the field in the 1990's.

Oddly enough. the Youtube clips of Hibs in those days don't bear out the 'boring, boring' tag,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPvM-ghiWmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgDNxueTtA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLhCKR409Gw


The last few years have been an absolute all-time low in my memories of Hibs. No talent on the field, no direction in the boardroom, and no joy in being a Hibee at all.

Alex Miller did much, MUCH better for Hibs than some posters on this forum are ever likely to be willing to admit.
I remember Radio Scotland interviewing all the Premier League managers at the start of the season. They asked them all what their aims for the season were and where they would like to finish. The bold Alex simply said "first". It would be great to see that sort of ambition returning.

[weonlywon6-2]

Maybe it's an age thing and I'm harder to please these days (some would say grumpy in fact:grr:,) but in terms of the lack of entertainment then I feel that the last three seasons have even surpassed the drudgery of the Miller times.


Agree with you.the latter stages of the miller era saw us play decent football and he gave me some of the best memories in football,semi v gers,1991 final , cup game v celtic and rangers

[eastterrace]

I remember Radio Scotland interviewing all the Premier League managers at the start of the season. They asked them all what their aims for the season were and where they would like to finish. The bold Alex simply said "first". It would be great to see that sort of ambition returning.

i cant remember him ever saying that. he did say at the start of the season in the match program we have no chance of winning the league and he got pillared for it from the fans . as i always said about that period the wilderness years when it came to derby or celtic games his record was woeful.

[weonlywon6-2]

Maybe it's an age thing and I'm harder to please these days (some would say grumpy in fact:grr:,) but in terms of the lack of entertainment then I feel that the last three seasons have even surpassed the drudgery of the Miller times.


Agree with you.the latter stages of the miller era saw us play decent football and he gave me some of the best memories in football,semi v gers,1991 final , cup game v celtic and rangers

[Hiber-nation]

He signed the right players, and formed a decent team, especially in 93-94 but the away games really were his downfall. I remember us ripping St Johnstone apart at McDiarmid with Crunchie and Mikey O'Neill outstanding but he'd then go to Fir Park and have Crunchie basically marking Rab McKinnon, their left back and hardly venturing over the halfway line. And his record against herts was abysmal.

[truehibernian]

Alex was over last month (might still be here), and even at his age, he takes in games - he took in some youth games a few weeks ago. He never ever stops learning about players and would be a valuable resource to use and tap into, especially his vast scouting knowledge/network.

His view on youth/U20 football is quite insightful too - he believes that young players who break into the first team, but don't feature, should train in double sessions - with both the senior and reserve squad. They need to be primed, fit and super keen - not over trained, but they need to perfect their art and hone skills in certain areas. He is firmly of the opinion that pro footballers up here do not train hard enough or often enough and don't learn the game, especially set pieces.

[brog]

AM put together some decent teams & we had more creative players in the early 90's than we had until the Mowbray era. IMO however AM's main problem was his lack of self-confidence & motivational skills, almost the fear factor that Terry referred to yesterday. I'll give you 3 examples;
1. Budgie refers in his book to AM spending all his time talking up the opposition & not doing enough to talk up Hibs.
2. I met AM once & asked him why he had 11 men in our own box at corners & that IMO it didn't work. I mentioned 2 recent goals, one for "them", where we cleared the corner but the ball came straight back in & we conceded. He was very civil but I felt somewhat patronising as he explained in great depth how we had to have every man marked, 2 on the posts etc. I then said to him, how about we make the opposition worry about us. I mentioned having 2 small fast players, IIRC Kevin Harper was one, stationed between our box & the half way line so that our opponents would need at least 3 men back to mark them. He looked at me said that doesn't work & walked away. Of course that counter attacking ploy is now the model for most of the top clubs.
3. This summer I played golf with a great friend of Neil Orr. Out of the blue this guy mentioned Neil felt AM was the most negative thinking manager he ever worked with, He mentioned a game at Ibrox where we drew 0-0 despite being down to 10 men, I think Callum Milne was sent off. He said after the game the players were literally shaking with exhaustion they had put so much in & yet AM came into the dressing room & only highlighted the negative events in the game. Apparently Neil & a couple of other players had to be restrained from attacking AM.
To summarise, much of the last 3 to 4 years reminds me of the worst times under AM, I would be delighted to see us equal some of the football we played in the good times under him.

[clerriehibs]

AM put together some decent teams & we had more creative players in the early 90's than we had until the Mowbray era. IMO however AM's main problem was his lack of self-confidence & motivational skills, almost the fear factor that Terry referred to yesterday. I'll give you 3 examples;
1. Budgie refers in his book to AM spending all his time talking up the opposition & not doing enough to talk up Hibs.
2. I met AM once & asked him why he had 11 men in our own box at corners & that IMO it didn't work. I mentioned 2 recent goals, one for "them", where we cleared the corner but the ball came straight back in & we conceded. He was very civil but I felt somewhat patronising as he explained in great depth how we had to have every man marked, 2 on the posts etc. I then said to him, how about we make the opposition worry about us. I mentioned having 2 small fast players, IIRC Kevin Harper was one, stationed between our box & the half way line so that our opponents would need at least 3 men back to mark them. He looked at me said that doesn't work & walked away. Of course that counter attacking ploy is now the model for most of the top clubs.
3. This summer I played golf with a great friend of Neil Orr. Out of the blue this guy mentioned Neil felt AM was the most negative thinking manager he ever worked with, He mentioned a game at Ibrox where we drew 0-0 despite being down to 10 men, I think Callum Milne was sent off. He said after the game the players were literally shaking with exhaustion they had put so much in & yet AM came into the dressing room & only highlighted the negative events in the game. Apparently Neil & a couple of other players had to be restrained from attacking AM.
To summarise, much of the last 3 to 4 years reminds me of the worst times under AM, I would be delighted to see us equal some of the football we played in the good times under him.


oh I dunno ... Sauzee and Latapy were fairly creative ...

[eastterrace]

AM put together some decent teams & we had more creative players in the early 90's than we had until the Mowbray era. IMO however AM's main problem was his lack of self-confidence & motivational skills, almost the fear factor that Terry referred to yesterday. I'll give you 3 examples;
1. Budgie refers in his book to AM spending all his time talking up the opposition & not doing enough to talk up Hibs.
2. I met AM once & asked him why he had 11 men in our own box at corners & that IMO it didn't work. I mentioned 2 recent goals, one for "them", where we cleared the corner but the ball came straight back in & we conceded. He was very civil but I felt somewhat patronising as he explained in great depth how we had to have every man marked, 2 on the posts etc. I then said to him, how about we make the opposition worry about us. I mentioned having 2 small fast players, IIRC Kevin Harper was one, stationed between our box & the half way line so that our opponents would need at least 3 men back to mark them. He looked at me said that doesn't work & walked away. Of course that counter attacking ploy is now the model for most of the top clubs.
3. This summer I played golf with a great friend of Neil Orr. Out of the blue this guy mentioned Neil felt AM was the most negative thinking manager he ever worked with, He mentioned a game at Ibrox where we drew 0-0 despite being down to 10 men, I think Callum Milne was sent off. He said after the game the players were literally shaking with exhaustion they had put so much in & yet AM came into the dressing room & only highlighted the negative events in the game. Apparently Neil & a couple of other players had to be restrained from attacking AM.
To summarise, much of the last 3 to 4 years reminds me of the worst times under AM, I would be delighted to see us equal some of the football we played in the good times under him.
maybe thats why his derby record was woeful he worried more about the opposition instead of playing to our strengths he maybe thought to much about the game and ended up with the negative approach. we did see some great players in that period but more often they never had much time to shine due to his try not to lose the game.

[Stevie Reid]

All that was really left was Leighton & Jackson, and they couldn't wait to bail when Duffy arrived. Duffy was hopeless, but the squad depth was so poor by 1996.

Duffy got rid of McAllister for a pittance (25K) and Mickey Weir for nothing, whilst paying £100K each for the likes of Jamie McQuilken, Lee Power, Paul Tosh, and Davie Elliott (would love to know if the Ross County legend is true regarding Elliott).

At the end of the season we were battling with Motherwell to avoid a relegation play off, and Motherwell went to Ibrox where Rangers would secure 9 in a row with a win - Motherwell beat them 2-0 and Mickey Weir was at the heart of everything. These guys would have played a major part for us, given the chance - Weir was only 30; McAllister was 33, but played 180 games in the next 5 years for Falkirk.

[Hiber-nation]

Duffy got rid of McAllister for a pittance (25K) and Mickey Weir for nothing, whilst paying £100K each for the likes of Jamie McQuilken, Lee Power, Paul Tosh, and Davie Elliott (would love to know if the Ross County legend is true regarding Elliott).

At the end of the season we were battling with Motherwell to avoid a relegation play off, and Motherwell went to Ibrox where Rangers would secure 9 in a row with a win - Motherwell beat them 2-0 and Mickey Weir was at the heart of everything. McAllister was Falkirk's best player for many years following his departure from us. These guys would have played a major part for us, given the chance.

Care to elaborate? :wink:

[Stevie Reid]

Care to elaborate? :wink:

It's similar to the Martin Hayes story at Celtic. Davie Elliott wasn't getting a game at Falkirk, and Ross County (3rd Division at the time) expressed an interest in him - the Falkirk manager at the time (Alex Totten, IIRC) said that Elliott could go up and have a look at Dingwall, and was free to leave for nothing if he wanted to go; Elliott (27 at the time) came back and said he didn't fancy Dingwall, and wanted to stay - Alex Totten implored him to leave as he wouldn't be getting a game at Falkirk and he might want first team football at his age.

Next thing Duffy gets in touch, we offer £100K and he's ours :greengrin

[Hiber-nation]

It's similar to the Martin Hayes story at Celtic. Davie Elliott wasn't getting a game at Falkirk, and Ross County (3rd Division at the time) expressed an interest in him - the Falkirk manager at the time (Alex Totten, IIRC) said that Elliott could go up and have a look at Dingwall, and was free to leave for nothing if he wanted to go; Elliott (27 at the time) came back and said he didn't fancy Dingwall, and wanted to stay - Alex Totten implored him to leave as he wouldn't be getting a game at Falkirk and he might want first team football at his age.

Next thing Duffy gets in touch, we offer £100K and he's ours :greengrin

Bloody hell, never heard that one before! Duff Jimmy, eh....

[IWasThere2016]

This is worse. I recall seeing Miller's team winning 5-0, 5-1 v Pars, Jags with Keith, Jackson, Mickey, Archibald, Michael O'Neill, Crunchie etc. Would kill for that lot today.

[--------]

:top marks Spot on!

Not only that but you have provided me with footage of my favorite goal of all time at Easter Road, Michael O'Neil v Motherwell - just sheer quality, in the second link. :thumbsup:


That was some goal, right enough. One moment we're deep in defence, next moment we're celebrating an absolute scorcher.


:agree:

[Jonnyboy]

Alex Miller's record

Managed Hibs for a total of 453 matches, 158 of which were won, 140 drawn and 155 lost. Some 526 goals were scored and 517 conceded

[--------]

Alex Miller's record

Managed Hibs for a total of 453 matches, 158 of which were won, 140 drawn and 155 lost. Some 526 goals were scored and 517 conceded


You mean he won more than he lost, John?

That's appalling. Has he never heard of tradition?

No wonder so many don't like him.

:wink:

[majorhibs]

i cant remember him ever saying that. he did say at the start of the season in the match program we have no chance of winning the league and he got pillared for it from the fans . as i always said about that period the wilderness years when it came to derby or celtic games his record was woeful.

Was it no along the lines df "lets face it were never going to be able to get above the infirm"? Bad crack at the time from your manager, maybe think it but don't come over defeatist to your supporters. No other teams managers were throwing in towels at that time, except ours. But what always got me about him, was his "it's only another 2 points" attitude to derbies. He said that far too many times at the start for me, these games meant everything to me and he was indifferent to them at best, just said the wrong thing time & again after derby defeats, and lets face it he had far too many of them! At least wi the revolving door nowadays you cannae build up 10 years o resentment at your own gaffer losing about 3/4 o the only game that REALLY matters! And please don't start me on 8 years of Brian Hamilton....

[brog]

You mean he won more than he lost, John?

That's appalling. Has he never heard of tradition?

No wonder so many don't like him.

:wink:

I hate to tell you this but AM's win % is actually lower than Blobby's, Yogi's & Pat Fenlon's! . Even that other king of the draws, Bertie Auld had a considerably higher win %. Perhaps the OP had a point.

[Hibbyradge]

You clearly havnae read post 7 :wink:

I was replying to it. :wink:

[tamig]

Alex Miller's record

Managed Hibs for a total of 453 matches, 158 of which were won, 140 drawn and 155 lost. Some 526 goals were scored and 517 conceded

Thats a pretty impressive record. Positive goal difference too.

[JimBHibees]

I know it's the done thing on this forum to go on and on about how dire everything was under Alex Miller, but you might bear in mid that the seasons 89/90 and 90/91 were played out in the context of the Wally Smirker takeover bid and the worst financial crisis in the club's history.

Alex Miller worked hard and effectively to hold the team together through that crisis, and it was almost entirely down to him that the club STF bought still had an effective first-team squad. I remember a press interview he gave not long after the news of Smirker's takeover had been announced when he was asked what happened if Hibs were relegated (we were bottom of the SPL at the time) - would there be a massive loss of the best players from the club? Alex stated simply and definitely that Hibs would NOT be relegated, and no players were leaving, and that Hibernian Football Club would survive. My memory of Alex Miller will be of the manager who held us together when a lesser man might have failed - or moved on sharpish to another job.

If you look at the dates you quote, 89-91 were the worst times, 91-95 were good years, and he left in 96. IMO to compare Alex Miller's work at ER to the shambles of Hughes and Calderwood is a gross insult to him.

A team of Leighton, Miller, Tweed, Hunter, Mitchell: McAllister, Hamilton, McGinlay, O'Neill; Jackson and Wright; with guys like Harper, Mickey Weir, Tam McIntyre, Budgie and others around wouldn't half suit me right now, and I saw enough of Hibs in those days to KNOW that the entertainment level the last three-four years doesn't compare in any way to what was on the field in the 1990's.

Oddly enough. the Youtube clips of Hibs in those days don't bear out the 'boring, boring' tag,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPvM-ghiWmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgDNxueTtA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLhCKR409Gw


The last few years have been an absolute all-time low in my memories of Hibs. No talent on the field, no direction in the boardroom, and no joy in being a Hibee at all.

Alex Miller did much, MUCH better for Hibs than some posters on this forum are ever likely to be willing to admit.

Completely agree as a coach he was light years ahead of some of the junk we have had since. It said it all when he was replaced we got relegated. It does need to be taken into the context of the Mercer takeover also and the shambles the club were at that time. There is no doubt his derby record was very poor however Hearts were stronger than us at that time.

[Squealing pig]

didny hink Alex miller was that bad a gaffer, went on to b part of some great teams after hibs too. Worst memory bein seven nil at ibrox if that was even him in chArge

[Jonnyboy]

didny hink Alex miller was that bad a gaffer, went on to b part of some great teams after hibs too. Worst memory bein seven nil at ibrox if that was even him in chArge

It was

[E10 Rifle]

Miller get's a bad rap, he hung on too long for sure but all of his teams were better than the dross we suffered of the preceding years, particularly Blackley/Stanton (although they were probably hard done by in terms of money available).

[Bishop Hibee]

I must have imagined two 1-0 defeats at Fir Park within the space of 4 days with Weir up front.

Not as bad as Duff Jimmy and Calderclown but we should really be aiming higher than what we achieved in the Miller era.

My favourite periods watching Hibs were under McLeish and Mowbray. Hopefully Butcher can match or even better either of these.

[ehf]

The current side is far worse: not a scintilla of craft or guile. Let's be brutally honest, none of them would get into any other SPL team. I would keep Harris and Cummings and get rid of the rest.

[Bishop Hibee]

The current side is far worse: not a scintilla of craft or guile. Let's be brutally honest, none of them would get into any other SPL team. I would keep Harris and Cummings and get rid of the rest.

Garbage. How are we 7th rather than bottom?

[Bostonhibby]

Have written a million posts about my memories of the Miller era, not going to go through it all again. In summary, pre-Bosman when there were only one or two signings every season, Miller genuinely built a team up until 1995, and it began to unravel a bit after that. However, Jim Duffy decimated what was still there in just over a year.

Duffy stands as a good example of what might have happened had a different man been in charge during the darkest days in our history, when we almost went under. To win a trophy so soon after was utterly miraculous, and I often thought that Miller wasn't given enough credit for that due to his Rangers history. However, some of the ridiculous nonsense written on here about John Collins shows that some people just don't seem to think that winning a trophy for a club who has won 9 major honours in 138 years is that big a deal, or deserves any credit.

The best Miller teams were great to watch, and in 1995 we finished a point off second, and lost as few matches as a Rangers team in the middle of 9 in a row. We had many cup semis and two final appearances, winning one - and, although it was undoubtedly his horrendous derby record that cost him in the end, we did have 3 wins against them in one season under Miller, which hasn't been done since. He also made some major coups in his signings, such as Steve Archibald, Murdo McLeod, and Andy Goram.

I was very young in the earliest days under Miller, but the last 3 years have easily been worse than the worst days under AM. We've hardly had a player worth watching these last 3 seasons, whilst even in the worst times under Miller we had the quality of Collins, Archibald, Weir, and more. The team that contained Wright, Jackson, McAllister, O'Neill and McGinlay was great to watch, and when you think about how many players you remember fondly from the Miller era, it may surprise you.

For a long time I've thought that history has judged Miller quite harshly, and I still think that way now. A look at where we were when he took over, and where we very quickly ended up after he left, says a lot.

:agree:All of this, and he had to manage us through very unstable times, oh and he won a cup - I was there :greengrin

[ehf]

Garbage. How are we 7th rather than bottom?

Thanks to a few lucky wins playing on the break under Fenlon.

[Cabbage East]

The current side is far worse: not a scintilla of craft or guile. Let's be brutally honest, none of them would get into any other SPL team. I would keep Harris and Cummings and get rid of the rest.

:faf:

[Hiber-nation]

The current side is far worse: not a scintilla of craft or guile. Let's be brutally honest, none of them would get into any other SPL team. I would keep Harris and Cummings and get rid of the rest.

Right...so Williams, Robertson, Craig and Hanlon wouldn't get a game for hearts, Ross Co or Partick.

Aye very good....

[Wheat Hound]

Miller time select:
1. Goram
2. Miller
3. Mitchell
4. McGinlay
5. McIntyre
6. Hunter
7. McCallister
8. Jackson
9. Wright
10. Archibald
11. Collins

[ehf]

Right...so Williams, Robertson, Craig and Hanlon wouldn't get a game for hearts, Ross Co or Partick.

Aye very good....

Williams might get a game for Ross County; Hearts and Partick have better keepers. Otherwise, no.

[Purple & Green]

Duffy got rid of McAllister for a pittance (25K) and Mickey Weir for nothing, whilst paying £100K each for the likes of Jamie McQuilken, Lee Power, Paul Tosh, and Davie Elliott (would love to know if the Ross County legend is true regarding Elliott).

At the end of the season we were battling with Motherwell to avoid a relegation play off, and Motherwell went to Ibrox where Rangers would secure 9 in a row with a win - Motherwell beat them 2-0 and Mickey Weir was at the heart of everything. These guys would have played a major part for us, given the chance - Weir was only 30; McAllister was 33, but played 180 games in the next 5 years for Falkirk.

One way of looking at it - the other is that between them, they never managed 30 top flight games after leaving Hibs. Duffy was hopelessly out of his depth or a complete charlatan but the underlying point remains IMHO that Hibs squad in 1996 lacked depth and ergo millers signings were poor.

[majorhibs]

Miller time select:
1. Goram
2. Miller
3. Mitchell
4. McGinlay
5. McIntyre
6. Hunter
7. McCallister
8. Jackson
9. Wright
10. Archibald
11. Collins

3 or 4 years where he got a bit adventurous- the rest- how did he ever get the name mogadon Miller? Pick a team fi his first few years in charge then. Not many Scottish managers afore or after have been given TEN years, particularly when the derby record is abysmal, the fitba is generally defensive boring tripe, and the league placing is usually down at the underachievers end. It's easy to look back and see the good times, and Keith Wright (although with better service admittedly) then was like Leigh Griffiths last year, but there was plenty complaints and plenty low times in that 10 years, particularly the first half. But I would have him afore Calderwood or Fenlon etc, preferably in his gung ho phase about 91 - 93.

[Stevie Reid]

One way of looking at it - the other is that between them, they never managed 30 top flight games after leaving Hibs. Duffy was hopelessly out of his depth or a complete charlatan but the underlying point remains IMHO that Hibs squad in 1996 lacked depth and ergo millers signings were poor.

Weir retired through injury to be fair, and my point about McAllister is that he still continued to play at a higher level than any of the Duffy signings that came in.

FWIW, we missed out on Davie Weir, Colin Cameron and Neil McCann as Hearts out spent us - around that time we started building our new stands whilst Hearts got extension after extension to keep that pathetic away end open. Even back then we were spending money on infrastructure, whilst Hearts were bending the rules to overspend on their team.

Instead of those three we got Ian Cameron, Joe McLaughlin and the likes. However, in the main, Miller signed very well.

[fat freddy]

i haven't read this thread cos i am half jaiked after a night in the boozer but it should be noted that millers team went to videoton and won 3-0...videoton had been in a uefa semi a few years previous...we also went to brussels and drew 1-1 against a very good anderlecht side...cup win against dunfermline after a semi victory over an excellent rangers side...miller had his faults but he was streets ahead of any manager we've had since then...remember he was assistant at liverpool when they won the champions league....the side he built in 93/94 would easily win the premier league now



i reserve the right to delete this post when i sober up in the morning...goodnight

[Stevie Reid]

i haven't read this thread cos i am half jaiked after a night in the boozer but it should be noted that millers team went to videoton and won 3-0...videoton had been in a uefa semi a few years previous...we also went to brussels and drew 1-1 against a very good anderlecht side...cup win against dunfermline after a semi victory over an excellent rangers side...miller had his faults but he was streets ahead of any manager we've had since then...remember he was assistant at liverpool when they won the champions league....the side he built in 93/94 would easily win the premier league now



i reserve the right to delete this post when i sober up in the morning...goodnight

Videoton actually got the UEFA Cup Final in 1985 - they lost the first leg 3-0 at home to Real Madrid, but they did win the away leg 1-0 at the Bernabeu.

[renato]

That was some goal, right enough. One moment we're deep in defence, next moment we're celebrating an absolute scorcher.


:agree:

I have 2 great memories of that game. That lightening quick break away, Harper's cross and Mikey racing onto the ball and unleashing that left foot screamer. I was sitting in the cowshed and was literally right behind his run and the arrow he unleashed. Probably my favourite goal at ER. The other was Leighton's left sided scoop from the 'well free kick, one of the best saves I've seen in the flesh.

Brilliant spot Doddie, thanks for the great memories. As an aside, two good teams and noticeable how full the away end is in Perth, as well as the sizeable Motherwell support in the south. There were some horrible games and runs back then but one thing's for sure, the likes of Archibald, Goram, Collins, Jimbo, O'Neill, Jackson, Harper, Crunchie and Pat would have walked into any of the teams we've had of late (probably since McLeish) and any two of that lot would probably be able to carry us into the top 6 right now. What I would give for Crunchie and Harper on the wings just now....

[--------]

didny hink Alex miller was that bad a gaffer, went on to b part of some great teams after hibs too. Worst memory bein seven nil at ibrox if that was even him in chArge


It was


I remember he was absolutely shell-shocked at the post-match interview - "the most embarrassing afternoon of my life", he said.

He did get the players sufficiently sorted out to beat the Yams 2-1 at ER in the next match.

[ancient hibee]

I know it's the done thing on this forum to go on and on about how dire everything was under Alex Miller, but you might bear in mid that the seasons 89/90 and 90/91 were played out in the context of the Wally Smirker takeover bid and the worst financial crisis in the club's history.

Alex Miller worked hard and effectively to hold the team together through that crisis, and it was almost entirely down to him that the club STF bought still had an effective first-team squad. I remember a press interview he gave not long after the news of Smirker's takeover had been announced when he was asked what happened if Hibs were relegated (we were bottom of the SPL at the time) - would there be a massive loss of the best players from the club? Alex stated simply and definitely that Hibs would NOT be relegated, and no players were leaving, and that Hibernian Football Club would survive. My memory of Alex Miller will be of the manager who held us together when a lesser man might have failed - or moved on sharpish to another job.

If you look at the dates you quote, 89-91 were the worst times, 91-95 were good years, and he left in 96. IMO to compare Alex Miller's work at ER to the shambles of Hughes and Calderwood is a gross insult to him.

A team of Leighton, Miller, Tweed, Hunter, Mitchell: McAllister, Hamilton, McGinlay, O'Neill; Jackson and Wright; with guys like Harper, Mickey Weir, Tam McIntyre, Budgie and others around wouldn't half suit me right now, and I saw enough of Hibs in those days to KNOW that the entertainment level the last three-four years doesn't compare in any way to what was on the field in the 1990's.

Oddly enough. the Youtube clips of Hibs in those days don't bear out the 'boring, boring' tag,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPvM-ghiWmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgDNxueTtA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLhCKR409Gw


The last few years have been an absolute all-time low in my memories of Hibs. No talent on the field, no direction in the boardroom, and no joy in being a Hibee at all.

Alex Miller did much, MUCH better for Hibs than some posters on this forum are ever likely to be willing to admit.

More goal attempts in those 3 clips than in the entire calendar year at Easter Road.

[Jonnyboy]

Weir retired through injury to be fair, and my point about McAllister is that he still continued to play at a higher level than any of the Duffy signings that came in.

FWIW, we missed out on Davie Weir, Colin Cameron and Neil McCann as Hearts out spent us - around that time we started building our new stands whilst Hearts got extension after extension to keep that pathetic away end open. Even back then we were spending money on infrastructure, whilst Hearts were bending the rules to overspend on their team.

Instead of those three we got Ian Cameron, Joe McLaughlin and the likes. However, in the main, Miller signed very well.

He didn't Stevie, he signed for Motherwell played 23 times and scored six goals. Plenty of life left in him and should never have been released IMO

[SouthamptonHibs]

The last four years have been horrendous Alex Miller era was never this bad, Calderwood, Hughes and Fenlon have created a team much worse than Miller ever did! Our team has no pace, no goals and is boring as **** to watch we don't win at home and must have scored more than two goals in one game about 5 times in five years. For those that remember we got rid off Miller and Duffy came in a relegated us! Football wasn't the best under Miller but at no time was it as bad as Duffy Hughes Calderwood and Fenlon. Hail Hail onto Dingwall we go best outcome we can get is 1-0 followed by 1-1 or 0-0 as we can't score goals

[jdships]

I know it's the done thing on this forum to go on and on about how dire everything was under Alex Miller, but you might bear in mid that the seasons 89/90 and 90/91 were played out in the context of the Wally Smirker takeover bid and the worst financial crisis in the club's history.

Alex Miller worked hard and effectively to hold the team together through that crisis, and it was almost entirely down to him that the club STF bought still had an effective first-team squad. I remember a press interview he gave not long after the news of Smirker's takeover had been announced when he was asked what happened if Hibs were relegated (we were bottom of the SPL at the time) - would there be a massive loss of the best players from the club? Alex stated simply and definitely that Hibs would NOT be relegated, and no players were leaving, and that Hibernian Football Club would survive. My memory of Alex Miller will be of the manager who held us together when a lesser man might have failed - or moved on sharpish to another job.

If you look at the dates you quote, 89-91 were the worst times, 91-95 were good years, and he left in 96. IMO to compare Alex Miller's work at ER to the shambles of Hughes and Calderwood is a gross insult to him.

A team of Leighton, Miller, Tweed, Hunter, Mitchell: McAllister, Hamilton, McGinlay, O'Neill; Jackson and Wright; with guys like Harper, Mickey Weir, Tam McIntyre, Budgie and others around wouldn't half suit me right now, and I saw enough of Hibs in those days to KNOW that the entertainment level the last three-four years doesn't compare in any way to what was on the field in the 1990's.

Oddly enough. the Youtube clips of Hibs in those days don't bear out the 'boring, boring' tag,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPvM-ghiWmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgDNxueTtA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLhCKR409Gw


The last few years have been an absolute all-time low in my memories of Hibs. No talent on the field, no direction in the boardroom, and no joy in being a Hibee at all.

Alex Miller did much, MUCH better for Hibs than some posters on this forum are ever likely to be willing to admit.




Alex Miller did much, MUCH better for Hibs than some posters on this forum are ever likely to be willing to admit.[

You are 100% correct . I got to know Alex Miller very well during his time at ER and he was completely and utterly committed to the
" Hibernian cause ".
I doubt if there has been a better scouting system/database in place since
He also held the dressing room together on numerous occasions and all in all as you rightly say gets very little credit .
I knew of the Mercer takeover six weeks before the news broke in the media and attended meetings where AM was present and he was right up there with his vehement dislike of WM and what he stood for ..
Since 1996 I have never felt comfortable about the future of the club on the park .
Hopefully , just hopefully , things will change in the next couple of years :flag:

[Simkin911]

Not read all this thread but I personally thought the Miller years were ok. IMO there has been much worse since. I certainly enjoyed the whole Sat PM / football experience back then. However, I don't think that is clouding my judgement.

Bumped into Keith Keith Keith a couple of weeks ago at kids footy training. 'I was there in '91', was all I said. His reply 'Good times eh'.

[Purple & Green]

Weir retired through injury to be fair, and my point about McAllister is that he still continued to play at a higher level than any of the Duffy signings that came in.

FWIW, we missed out on Davie Weir, Colin Cameron and Neil McCann as Hearts out spent us - around that time we started building our new stands whilst Hearts got extension after extension to keep that pathetic away end open. Even back then we were spending money on infrastructure, whilst Hearts were bending the rules to overspend on their team.

Instead of those three we got Ian Cameron, Joe McLaughlin and the likes. However, in the main, Miller signed very well.

I don't know about Cameron or McCann, but Hibs had an offer accepted for Davie weir and he wouldn't even speak to miller or Cromb. My recollection is that this was less than a year after miller had blitzed 300k on Andy Millen.


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[Purple & Green]

I doubt if there has been a better scouting system/database in place since


I always thought miller was incredibly risk averse with his signings - although I'm sure you'll point to platt and rosenthal, and goram.



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[Bay Area Hibees]

Have written a million posts about my memories of the Miller era, not going to go through it all again. In summary, pre-Bosman when there were only one or two signings every season, Miller genuinely built a team up until 1995, and it began to unravel a bit after that. However, Jim Duffy decimated what was still there in just over a year.

Duffy stands as a good example of what might have happened had a different man been in charge during the darkest days in our history, when we almost went under. To win a trophy so soon after was utterly miraculous, and I often thought that Miller wasn't given enough credit for that due to his Rangers history. However, some of the ridiculous nonsense written on here about John Collins shows that some people just don't seem to think that winning a trophy for a club who has won 9 major honours in 138 years is that big a deal, or deserves any credit.

The best Miller teams were great to watch, and in 1995 we finished a point off second, and lost as few matches as a Rangers team in the middle of 9 in a row. We had many cup semis and two final appearances, winning one - and, although it was undoubtedly his horrendous derby record that cost him in the end, we did have 3 wins against them in one season under Miller, which hasn't been done since. He also made some major coups in his signings, such as Steve Archibald, Murdo McLeod, and Andy Goram.

I was very young in the earliest days under Miller, but the last 3 years have easily been worse than the worst days under AM. We've hardly had a player worth watching these last 3 seasons, whilst even in the worst times under Miller we had the quality of Collins, Archibald, Weir, and more. The team that contained Wright, Jackson, McAllister, O'Neill and McGinlay was great to watch, and when you think about how many players you remember fondly from the Miller era, it may surprise you.

For a long time I've thought that history has judged Miller quite harshly, and I still think that way now. A look at where we were when he took over, and where we very quickly ended up after he left, says a lot.

Steve GREAT post, agree completely.

[majorhibs]

Steve GREAT post, agree completely.

Sorry, strongly disagree with some oft repeated nonsense, at the time it was not Millers Huns history that was a huge issue, it was about what he was doin wi Hibs, ie majority derby defeats & appearing unconcerned, or rather saying all the wrong things when we were hurting & making us think he was unconcerned, defensive (11 in our box at opposition corners etc) negative stuff & LOTS of draws, way back telling us we would never again be able to compete for the league (maybe true but back then no-one else said it except the manager of Hibs) but the Huns stuff for me & those I attended with at the time was totally minor compared with how Hibs were doin, but IMO there was 2 periods of A.M.s time in charge pre F.T.B & after, before we, and the manager, were negative & basically pretty rubbish, 1 year during the attempted takeover he held it together to his enormous credit, then it was like he just seemed to throw caution to the wind & decide he was gonna go for it, the signings & formations seemed to change & we went from a team you thought were boring & likely to draw, to a team that had forward thinking midfielders & forwards with ability, who could score, & suddenly the fitba was entertaining & you spent your week looking forward to it again. Like the team that could survive all that had lost its fear and was going for it again, gung ho, no fear etc. Oh aye the other bit fi Stevies post, yes he brought in Stevie Archibald, who was a top, top player, but he also fell out with him as he did a few players, & remember, when he fell out wi a player that player was history at Hibs, the game away to Liege, was Archibald not dropped due to a dispute wi Miller, remember Houchen gettin injured after about what 30 mins & having to be replaced, & at the time IIRC the only available attackin option was a very young Pat Mcginlay & we just never looked like scorin after that in a game there to be won, I'm pretty sure Stevie Archibald left Hibs early due to a fallout wi the management but he was a player that thrived in Derbies & their cloggers & hatchet men just couldnae get near him, I could be wrong but a player IMO that made me confident before ANY game against THEM, was canned cos he fell out with the manager. Was that the case or not?

[3pm]

He didn't Stevie, he signed for Motherwell played 23 times and scored six goals. Plenty of life left in him and should never have been released IMO

Did Mickey not play in the 6-2 rout that forced Duffy out?!

[SkintHibby]

I remember he was absolutely shell-shocked at the post-match interview - "the most embarrassing afternoon of my life", he said.

He did get the players sufficiently sorted out to beat the Yams 2-1 at ER in the next match.

I remember on a bus going to the derby a guy saying to me we would be singing 7-0 to each other.:rolleyes:

Anyway, Mogadon Miller was his name and for guid reason!

[AndyM_1875]

Alex Miller did the best he could with the resources he had available to him at the time. He built two very good sides and held the club together during the dark days of 89-91.

It was apparent however that by 96 that he had been there 10 years and was worn out by the job. The team had gotten old and the best players had been replaced by journeymen.
But I'll take Alex Miller's 91-95 side over anything I've seen since Collins sides which won the League Cup.

[brog]

One other point for consideration is we spent a huge amount of money on transfers in the Miller era. IIRC our 2 highest ever transfer fees were spent on Pat McG & Keith W. I think we also spent 6 figure sums on Darren J, Crunchie, Michael O, Neil Orr, Dave Beaumont & quite a few more. I remember us outbidding top rivals, possibly inc Liverpool for Mark McGraw. I recognise this was pre Bosman but there's no doubt AM received substantial backing from the Board.

[--------]

One other point for consideration is we spent a huge amount of money on transfers in the Miller era. IIRC our 2 highest ever transfer fees were spent on Pat McG & Keith W. I think we also spent 6 figure sums on Darren J, Crunchie, Michael O, Neil Orr, Dave Beaumont & quite a few more. I remember us outbidding top rivals, possibly inc Liverpool for Mark McGraw. I recognise this was pre Bosman but there's no doubt AM received substantial backing from the Board.


I don't think we paid a fee for Beaumont. Could be wrong, but he was a free transfer from Luton Town IIRC.

[stu in nottingham]

The consistently worst periods since and including the Miller era for me have been under Williamson, Calderwood and the abject Fenlon. Miller had his faults and these are well documented but he had many solid virtues too. As Doddie points out above, he was a safe pair of hands during one of the club's most trying periods.

The past three years have been dire and together with the fact that Hibs are a more solid club these days are inexcusable. I have some good memories of the Miller period, as well as negative ones and agree with the vast majority here who state that, of late, it has been much worse.

[Bostonhibby]

The consistently worst periods since and including the Miller era for me have been under Williamson, Calderwood and the abject Fenlon. Miller had his faults and these are well documented but he had many solid virtues too. As Doddie points out above, he was a safe pair of hands during one of the club's most trying periods.

The past three years have been dire and together with the fact that Hibs are a more solid club these days are inexcusable. I have some good memories of the Miller period, as well as negative ones and agree with the vast majority here who state that, of late, it has been much worse.

Agree all of this, calderwood was the very worst of them all, Miller should not be lumped in with the other losers mentioned, there were many highlights and quality players and performances that I can't recall the likes of recently.

In a sea of mediocrity since JC Calderwood was far and away the most aimlessly floating Richard the 3rd. Worst manager ever in my time, and I have seen duff jimmy.

[Bishop Hibee]

I don't think we paid a fee for Beaumont. Could be wrong, but he was a free transfer from Luton Town IIRC.

£110,000 for that joke of a player. Miller's record of bringing through young players especially forwards was rotten. Harper the only one through the youth ranks. Compare that to Utd, Hertz or the Dons over those years. Putting me off Christmas thinking of it!

[Jonnyboy]

I think Alex Miller splits the support, at least those that watched the side during his ten years in charge. He deserves the highest of praise for guiding the players through the Mercer takeover bid and for bringing the Skol Cup to Leith. He also deserves praise for signing some quite wonderful players, like Jackson, O'Neill, Goram etc but he signed some howlers too, like Beaumont. It's worth remembering that despite our financial woes and in some instances adding to them, he got plenty of financial backing when signing players.

As someone who lived through those years I'd have to say the negatives outweigh the positives in my memory. Horrendous derby record, tactically set up not to lose rather than going for the win and (heard this again about those who followed him) playing players out of position. I have a vivid memory of Mickey Weir being played as the lone striker against Rangers and getting no change whatsoever out of a certain Terry Butcher.

I was glad when he left, the 7-0 at Ibrox still fresh in my mind and although some have said 'look what happened when Duffy came in' they should bear in mind that the Duffster was appointed by the board and so when it went pear shaped it was their doing and nothing to do with Miller having moved on. Lexo left some duff (pun intended) players and Duffy added to the duffness.

[Deansy]

i cant remember him ever saying that. he did say at the start of the season in the match program we have no chance of winning the league and he got pillared for it from the fans . as i always said about that period the wilderness years when it came to derby or celtic games his record was woeful.

I'm sure he made a statement re the derby-matches something along the lines of "The derby-matches are not the be-all and end-all - it's just another two points, same as any other match" - which was made worse as we were on that abysmal run against the 'financial power-house' from the PBS. Further compounded by Miller being ex-Hun/weeg so he should've known more than most, exactly what these matches mean to the fans. (Or maybe he was just being a typical ex-Hun/ weeg and we all should know there's only ONE derby-match that means anything - who knows ?). He certainly didn't do himself any favours, IMHO, with his attitude towards these matches.

As for the actual footballing side, when you think of the dross we've had in recent years (Calderwood being THE worst example) well, then Miller was almost of 'Special-One' status !!!

[Stevie Reid]

He didn't Stevie, he signed for Motherwell played 23 times and scored six goals. Plenty of life left in him and should never have been released IMO

JB, if you look back I was making the point that the only reason he didn't play more games at Motherwell as he retired through injury - my original point was that he should never have been released by us!

[Jonnyboy]

JB, if you look back I was making the point that the only reason he didn't play more games at Motherwell as he retired through injury - my original point was that he should never have been released by us!

Oops sorry Stevie, picked you up wrong :aok:

[Stevie Reid]

Oops sorry Stevie, picked you up wrong :aok:

Nae bor mate!

[Hiber-nation]

I think Alex Miller splits the support, at least those that watched the side during his ten years in charge. He deserves the highest of praise for guiding the players through the Mercer takeover bid and for bringing the Skol Cup to Leith. He also deserves praise for signing some quite wonderful players, like Jackson, O'Neill, Goram etc but he signed some howlers too, like Beaumont. It's worth remembering that despite our financial woes and in some instances adding to them, he got plenty of financial backing when signing players.

As someone who lived through those years I'd have to say the negatives outweigh the positives in my memory. Horrendous derby record, tactically set up not to lose rather than going for the win and (heard this again about those who followed him) playing players out of position. I have a vivid memory of Mickey Weir being played as the lone striker against Rangers and getting no change whatsoever out of a certain Terry Butcher.

I was glad when he left, the 7-0 at Ibrox still fresh in my mind and although some have said 'look what happened when Duffy came in' they should bear in mind that the Duffster was appointed by the board and so when it went pear shaped it was their doing and nothing to do with Miller having moved on. Lexo left some duff (pun intended) players and Duffy added to the duffness.

Agree JB, we always agreed on Miller when me and my mate bought Hibs Monthly from you on the corner of Albion Road :greengrin

I suppose this was the view of the vast majority of the support, we could have achieved more but he just couldn't bring himself to set the team up to have a go when the opportunity was there. FFS Jackson, Wright, McAllister and O'Neill....with McGinlay a goalscoring midfielder. We battered a few teams at home but the 4-2-4 turned into almost 6-4-0 in some away games.

[Jonnyboy]

Agree JB, we always agreed on Miller when me and my mate bought Hibs Monthly from you on the corner of Albion Road :greengrin

I suppose this was the view of the vast majority of the support, we could have achieved more but he just couldn't bring himself to set the team up to have a go when the opportunity was there. FFS Jackson, Wright, McAllister and O'Neill....with McGinlay a goalscoring midfielder. We battered a few teams at home but the 4-2-4 turned into almost 6-4-0 in some away games.

Ah the good old, pre messageboard, days :greengrin

[Hiber-nation]

Ah the good old, pre messageboard, days :greengrin

Aye, turn that clock back please!!

[Jonnyboy]

Aye, turn that clock back please!!

If only! Early 1970's would be nice :greengrin

[Sprouleflyer]

The man himself was at ER today. Sitting in the West Upper.

[malcolm]

The man himself was at ER today. Sitting in the West Upper.

and with one of his boys I think (not sure which one they both looked the same) who he gave a game for Hibs - not one of his best calls

[Wee Scottie Dug]

and with one of his boys I think (not sure which one they both looked the same) who he gave a game for Hibs - not one of his best calls

Think it was Greg ..... Though he did have a wooly hat on that hid his red hair!

Saw them both at HT in the concourse chatting away to a crowd near the exit end .......

[smurf]

His overall period was better than some of what we've endured recently. However, his negativity and derby record was painful. I recall a seven game run v that lot where we didn't score a goal. Maybe I've imagined that but fear I haven't... I remember him on some early 90's sport programme on telly ' Any Sporting Queston' and questioned on on his appalling derby record he came out with a line that was pretty embarassing... "...We've never been tactically out thought...". In other words don't blame me...

[BroxburnHibee]

I wasn't that fussed when Miller got the job but he did have to cope with the Mercer nonsense and that couldn't have been easy.

As others have said he did bring some cracking players to the club who I enjoyed immensely however it was clear that he had run his course at the time.

I remember his final season, not checked but I think we started with a defeat at home against Kilmarnock and we looked like a team that was going down. I knew his time was up then.

He won us a trophy - my first experience of that - and for that alone he will always have my respect and I wish him well.

[Peevemor]

I probably attended about 80% of all matches during the Miller years. The problem he had toward the end was that teams knew how to play him, he seemed to have run out of ideas and thing were stale to say the least.

Throughout his tenure, for me his biggest 2 faults were that he didn't seem to be able to lift the players if we wen't behing in a match. If we lost the first goal, no matter when it was, the heads seemed to go down and there was no way back. In addition Miller almost never used his subs before the last 20 minutes of a match unles he was forced to through injury.

[Stevie Reid]

I wasn't that fussed when Miller got the job but he did have to cope with the Mercer nonsense and that couldn't have been easy.

As others have said he did bring some cracking players to the club who I enjoyed immensely however it was clear that he had run his course at the time.

I remember his final season, not checked but I think we started with a defeat at home against Kilmarnock and we looked like a team that was going down. I knew his time was up then.

He won us a trophy - my first experience of that - and for that alone he will always have my respect and I wish him well.

Miller left on 30 September after a 3-1 home defeat to Hearts - our 3rd of the season. We had already won three, and drawn one of our seven league games. Throw in the two league cup wins (we lost 4-0 in the quarter final to Rangers) and our ten game record was W 5 D 1 L 4.

Miller went because of yet another weak surrender to Hearts (we were 3-0 at HT in his last game), the league form was fine. We beat Rangers in the first game after he left and had 13 points from 8 games. No way we were going down under Miller.

[BroxburnHibee]

Miller left on 30 September after a 3-1 home defeat to Hearts - our 3rd of the season. We had already won three, and drawn one of our seven league games. Throw in the two league cup wins (we lost 4-0 in the quarter final to Rangers) and our ten game record was W 5 D 1 L 4.

Miller went because of yet another weak surrender to Hearts (we were 3-0 at HT in his last game), the league form was fine. We beat Rangers in the first game after he left and had 13 points from 8 games. No way we were going down under Miller.

You forgot the FACT at the end there :greengrin

I remember how I felt - we looked devoid of ideas that day against Kilmarnock.

We very nearly went down that season.

[JustSimplyHibs]

The man himself was at ER today. Sitting in the West Upper.


Applauded both Hibs goals and left just before the third, he was even tappig his feet in tune with Glory Glory just before the start of the second half lol... pretty sure i overheard "see you at the Derby" to some fan as he was leaving.

Strange he didn't sit next to the rest of the suits and for that reason increases my appreciation for the gentleman.

[Bay Area Hibees]

Applauded both Hibs goals and left just before the third, he was even tappig his feet in tune with Glory Glory just before the start of the second half lol... pretty sure i overheard "see you at the Derby" to some fan as he was leaving.

Strange he didn't sit next to the rest of the suits and for that reason increases my appreciation for the gentleman.


Great to read he was at the game. Incredibly knowledgable football guy.

Will never forget the Skol Cup win .

[Stonewall]

...I have a vivid memory of Mickey Weir being played as the lone striker against Rangers and getting no change whatsoever out of a certain Terry Butcher...

I remember that too. We hit high balls at Mickey all afternoon, a real low (among many) in my Hibs' supporting career - absolutely unbelievable.

[Stevie Reid]

You forgot the FACT at the end there :greengrin

I remember how I felt - we looked devoid of ideas that day against Kilmarnock.

We very nearly went down that season.

Ha, on my phone so can't do an appropriate smiley! I did offer an opinion at the end, but I do think the facts speak for themselves in this case.

We very nearly went down due to only taking a further 28 points from the remaining 29 games after Miller. Jocky Scott's record wasn't great, but Duffy's was awful - P 16 W 3 D 6 L 7 in the season he took over. It was only when Duffy arrived that we became a team in danger of going down.

Over the two seasons Duffy was here, we took 33 points from 39 SPL matches.

[Keith_M]

Yes, there were some bad times under Millar and I think he was probably at ER a year too long (his last season was the worst, including a 0-7 defeat at Ibrox) but it's stupid to suggest it was ALL bad.

I'm not trying to cover over the bad parts but here's just one bit of evidence in his defense


SPL 1994/5 - Final Table


Pos
Team
Pld
W
D
L
GF
GA
GD
Pts


1
Rangers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C.) (C)
36
20
9
7
60
35
+25
69


2
Motherwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherwell_F.C.)
36
14
12
10
50
50
0
54


3
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
36
12
17
7
49
37
+12
53


4
Celtic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.)
36
11
18
7
39
33
+6
51




I remember seeing some fantastic displays in that season and would love Hibs to have that team now.

[Jonnyboy]

Yes, there were some bad times under Millar and I think he was probably at ER a year too long (his last season was the worst, including a 0-7 defeat at Ibrox) but it's stupid to suggest it was ALL bad.

I'm not trying to cover over the bad parts but here's just one bit of evidence in his defense


SPL 1994/5 - Final Table


Pos
Team
Pld
W
D
L
GF
GA
GD
Pts


1
Rangers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C.) (C)
36
20
9
7
60
35
+25
69


2
Motherwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherwell_F.C.)
36
14
12
10
50
50
0
54


3
Hibernian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernian_F.C.)
36
12
17
7
49
37
+12
53


4
Celtic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C.)
36
11
18
7
39
33
+6
51




I remember seeing some fantastic displays in that season and would love Hibs to have that team now.

Not sure anyone is suggesting it was all bad K. Was bad in parts, good in parts and mind numbingly boring in parts :greengrin