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Chump
22-12-2013, 02:13 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again.....we are paying good wages for very very average players. Players who, quite frankly, have had their chance to really stamp their authority in a very poor league but have failed to do so.....some over a good number of years now. I'm not sure any of our players would make a genuine positive impact at a top six squad just now and that is pretty desperate.

I hear all the time that we have a good squad but fail to see how;


no right back for a few years
no left back since Murphy
no dominant CB since Jones
a distinct lack of creativity in midfield
fearful midfielders who are only happy passing back or sideways
no pace (individually or as a team)
a horrible lack of chances up front
a horrible lack of goals from strikers


Problems certainly run very deep from managers of old and I think TB and MM have their work cut out to the point where I don't see improvement coming with this squad.....for me it'll take radical changes in the ER playing staff and not hard work and a few tactical changes.....the players simply aren't good enough. We should not be kidding ourselves otherwise.

January should be a time for TB and MM to set their targets for the summer and not any rash signings....work up to some very early signings in the summer and shape the squad for next season. Clearout Clancy, McGivern, McPake, Maybury, Mullen, Stevenson, Taiwo, OTJ, Vine and Caldwell!!!

Jones28
22-12-2013, 03:00 PM
Why clear out Caldwell? Just wondering because ever since the wee spat with butcher there seems to be a lot of contempt for him on this board!

ColintonHibs
22-12-2013, 03:01 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again.....we are paying good wages for very very average players. Players who, quite frankly, have had their chance to really stamp their authority in a very poor league but have failed to do so.....some over a good number of years now. I'm not sure any of our players would make a genuine positive impact at a top six squad just now and that is pretty desperate.

I hear all the time that we have a good squad but fail to see how;


no right back for a few years
no left back since Murphy
no dominant CB since Jones
a distinct lack of creativity in midfield
fearful midfielders who are only happy passing back or sideways
no pace (individually or as a team)
a horrible lack of chances up front
a horrible lack of goals from strikers


Problems certainly run very deep from managers of old and I think TB and MM have their work cut out to the point where I don't see improvement coming with this squad.....for me it'll take radical changes in the ER playing staff and not hard work and a few tactical changes.....the players simply aren't good enough. We should not be kidding ourselves otherwise.

January should be a time for TB and MM to set their targets for the summer and not any rash signings....work up to some very early signings in the summer and shape the squad for next season. Clearout Clancy, McGivern, McPake, Maybury, Mullen, Stevenson, Taiwo, OTJ, Vine and Caldwell!!!

I agree. The players are shocking and have been for years

JMac
22-12-2013, 03:12 PM
Yes getting rid of those players would be good but who would buy them? They're not exactly sell-able. From watching us this season, we really don't concede many goals. So the defense is obviously doing something right. Yes a right back would be good but we have more pressing concerns. A goalscorer and a number 10 should be our main targets come January. We have scored 10 goals this season. THE FEWEST IN SCOTTISH FOOTBALL! We need creativity not defense. Collins, Vine, Cairney, Thomson, OTJ, Taiwo etc just aren't bringing goals. So if we were to have a clear out, I'd start with the strikers and the midfielders before I start with the defense.

inglisavhibs
22-12-2013, 03:15 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again.....we are paying good wages for very very average players. Players who, quite frankly, have had their chance to really stamp their authority in a very poor league but have failed to do so.....some over a good number of years now. I'm not sure any of our players would make a genuine positive impact at a top six squad just now and that is pretty desperate.

I hear all the time that we have a good squad but fail to see how;


no right back for a few years
no left back since Murphy
no dominant CB since Jones
a distinct lack of creativity in midfield
fearful midfielders who are only happy passing back or sideways
no pace (individually or as a team)
a horrible lack of chances up front
a horrible lack of goals from strikers


Problems certainly run very deep from managers of old and I think TB and MM have their work cut out to the point where I don't see improvement coming with this squad.....for me it'll take radical changes in the ER playing staff and not hard work and a few tactical changes.....the players simply aren't good enough. We should not be kidding ourselves otherwise.

January should be a time for TB and MM to set their targets for the summer and not any rash signings....work up to some very early signings in the summer and shape the squad for next season. Clearout Clancy, McGivern, McPake, Maybury, Mullen, Stevenson, Taiwo, OTJ, Vine and Caldwell!!!
I think Nelson is a pretty dominant centre half and with Hanlon they are as good as we will get but agree on the clear out. Unless Craig and Handling can show us something they have not shown yet, they could be added to the list!

Franck Stanton
22-12-2013, 04:21 PM
Why clear out Caldwell? Just wondering because ever since the wee spat with butcher there seems to be a lot of contempt for him on this board!
Agree with EVERY word in the op, Caldwell has been around for a few seasons now, and that goal at the PBS apart, what has he done ? Seems to be a "Billy Big Boots" and is a good player in his mind only. Don't think he will make the grade, and have done for quite a while now. Seems, we, as a Club, have for some years now settled for sub-standard players. IF we are a "Big Club" - then prove it, get players of QUALITY in and not just the journeymen we have been subjected to for too many seasons.

Chump
22-12-2013, 06:24 PM
Why clear out Caldwell? Just wondering because ever since the wee spat with butcher there seems to be a lot of contempt for him on this board!

He offers nothing for me - I've watched him in the U20's and he has all the mannerisms of a young boy that needs to grow up very quickly.....IMO the way he conducts himself on the pitch suggests he has an over-inflated opinion of himself and will be in the lower leagues soon. Hibs don't need baggage at this point in time.

Chump
22-12-2013, 06:27 PM
Yes getting rid of those players would be good but who would buy them? They're not exactly sell-able. From watching us this season, we really don't concede many goals. So the defense is obviously doing something right. Yes a right back would be good but we have more pressing concerns. A goalscorer and a number 10 should be our main targets come January. We have scored 10 goals this season. THE FEWEST IN SCOTTISH FOOTBALL! We need creativity not defense. Collins, Vine, Cairney, Thomson, OTJ, Taiwo etc just aren't bringing goals. So if we were to have a clear out, I'd start with the strikers and the midfielders before I start with the defense.

My point exactly so why should Hibs settle for having them at ER? Wholesale changes is a very risky thing to do but difficult decisions need to be made and perhaps we've only now got the manager in charge to make them!!

ancient hibee
22-12-2013, 07:42 PM
My point exactly so why should Hibs settle for having them at ER? Wholesale changes is a very risky thing to do but difficult decisions need to be made and perhaps we've only now got the manager in charge to make them!!
Pe

Perhaps you'll tell us how you clear out players who are under contract and might not want to go anywhere.

Chump
22-12-2013, 07:51 PM
Pe

Perhaps you'll tell us how you clear out players who are under contract and might not want to go anywhere.

same in every walk of life - come to a mutual agreement!! There will be players in this bracket who won't want to leave as they will appreciate that they will never be at a bigger club in their career but damage for some have been done a while ago!!

why keep players that are clearly not up to the standard we expect....it's long overdue to get rid of some of these players and yes it may cost some money but there will be an optimum level where getting rid versus staying for the sack of staying will be reached

hibbymick
22-12-2013, 08:05 PM
I dont think we need to make too many changes to the side, maybe 2 or 3 players to freshen it up and a goalscorer. The side lacks confidence and someone who can put the ball in the back of the net would hopefully bring some back. It cant do much for team confidence knowing one slip up could cost your team the game because at the other end we cant put the ball in the net.

PETRIE.......

heretoday
22-12-2013, 10:46 PM
A glance at the table shows Hibs Goals For to be the worst in the league. Worse than Hearts! Defence is pretty average.

So we need at least one creator of chances and another guy to convert them or lay off to the current strikers who need to practise harder the art of shooting and finding space in the box.

Simple.

Viva_Palmeiras
22-12-2013, 10:51 PM
I think Nelson is a pretty dominant centre half and with Hanlon they are as good as we will get but agree on the clear out. Unless Craig and Handling can show us something they have not shown yet, they could be added to the list!

I agree with you on Nelson and I think Hanlon has proved a good servant. But bin Craig that TB made captain and Handling he's spoken highly of!!!?

RIP
23-12-2013, 10:03 AM
We have spent the past six seasons changing managers and clearing out/bringing in new players. What evidence is there that this process makes Hibs better to watch or more successful? That approach only raises false expectations to be dashed within half a season

We do not play as a team, on field discipline is poor, there is no-one taking personal responsibility, the tactics since Mowbray/Collins have been dire and the delivery of a boring, mediocre product from season to season shows no sign of abating.

I refuse to accept that we should play second fiddle to United, Aberdeen, Motherwell but until we get a tougher mindset in all areas I don't anticipate improvement any time soon :loser:

Hibercelona
23-12-2013, 10:46 AM
It's been the same for years now. Players that "lack confidence". Are "afraid of winning" and "don't like big crowds".

No matter how many times we clear out, we seem to attract the same kind of players back in again, when no other club in the league (or any league for that matter) would stand for these type of players.

I've also been bemused by our "tactics" since they days of Mowbray/Collins. None of the players on the pitch seem to know what their main roles are. They're like headless chickens who are just trying to make it up as they go along.

It's just astonishing that we can be so poor for so long.

GreenOnions
23-12-2013, 11:36 AM
Quite a number of good players at ER IMO. Changes required but mainly due to lack of balance in the way the squad has been developed rather than overall quality. This has been well documented on here.

I believe that we are lacking at full-back, in the wide areas and in the goalscoring department. Perhaps three or four players of good quality.

If these could be added then the likes of Williams, Forster, Hanlon, McGivern, Robertson, Tudur-Jones, Stevenson, Craig, Harris, Collins, Cairney, Heffernan and Cummings could remain and make up a strong squad IMO.

Northernhibee
23-12-2013, 11:37 AM
Clearout required

No there's not.

Couple of attacking midfielders who can play out wide and create, new RB, one striker required.

Four players needed in, if rumours are that KT and a couple of others are going it's hardly a clearout.

hibsbollah
23-12-2013, 11:58 AM
No there's not.

Couple of attacking midfielders who can play out wide and create, new RB, one striker required.

Four players needed in, if rumours are that KT and a couple of others are going it's hardly a clearout.

Agree. Attacking Midfield the priority. Two new players.
One new Rightback. (Unless McGivern sorts himself out we might need a leftback as well.)
One new striker would be nice to complement Heff and Col
lins, but the two of them WERE developing an understanding until injury. Cummings also looks good so id say striker isnt number one priority.

Three new players in January would be excellent.

Id be quite happy for a brutal cull of the midfield to free up some wages. Apart from Robertson and Craig I wouldnt lose sleep if Butcher got rid of any of the rest of them.

Geo_1875
23-12-2013, 12:05 PM
Having read the original post thoroughly, I now recognise it as nothing but a sly attempt to have a go at Lewis Stevenson. :rolleyes:

BH Hibs
23-12-2013, 05:02 PM
No there's not.

Couple of attacking midfielders who can play out wide and create, new RB, one striker required.

Four players needed in, if rumours are that KT and a couple of others are going it's hardly a clearout.

Agree with this plus some pace needed. Its all too well having a clearout butcher have to make sure we are bringing in better. Look at the decision to release Wotherspoon without having a replacement sorted out, not saying Spoony was the answer but it left us short of wide players

Brightside
23-12-2013, 05:32 PM
A winger and an attacking midfielder will be the only changes coming in.