Scottish media avert their gaze shock

[Dan Sarf]

Interesting comment from the Grauniad...

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/dec/13/raceandreligion-scotland

[Phil D. Rolls]

Interesting comment from the Grauniad...

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/dec/13/raceandreligion-scotland

Maybe stories like that are a bit "Dog Bites Man"?

[Bostonhibby]

Interesting comment from the Grauniad...

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/dec/13/raceandreligion-scotland

It's another bears crap in the woods "revelation".

Is it because the Hun biased media prefer to play to their majority audience? it's a lot easier than doing journalism where you have to put a bit of thought into what you write but you get paid anyway.

[HibeeHutch]

I had no idea Limmy was involved in this. Absolutely no excuse for his words.

I also thought it was strange that two prominent Celtic fans chose to write a book about the demise of Rangers. i could never imagine that happening in Edinburgh. If that's not incendiary I don't know what is.

Essentially my view still stands: Scotland would be a far better place if we didn't have either of those clubs in existence.

[Gus Fring]

I had no idea Limmy was involved in this. Absolutely no excuse for his words.

I also thought it was strange that two prominent Celtic fans chose to write a book about the demise of Rangers. i could never imagine that happening in Edinburgh. If that's not incendiary I don't know what is.

Essentially my view still stands: Scotland would be a far better place if we didn't have either of those clubs in existence.

This isn't "Limmy" as in the guy who writes and stars in Limmys Show for anyone wondering. Different people, same surname.

[johnbc70]

I think having been brought up in the East coast we do not see how this poisons many parts of Scotland. I remember doing some work experience in Glasgow in my early 20's and literally the first question I got asked was to find out what 'side' I was on. Scotland would be a far better place without these 2 teams and certain elements of their support and culture. And nobody is really surprised that the story never made the news, sure it happens all the time but we never hear about it.

[Andy74]

I had no idea Limmy was involved in this. Absolutely no excuse for his words.

I also thought it was strange that two prominent Celtic fans chose to write a book about the demise of Rangers. i could never imagine that happening in Edinburgh. If that's not incendiary I don't know what is.

Essentially my view still stands: Scotland would be a far better place if we didn't have either of those clubs in existence.

The clubs exist as they are because of the people in Scotland, not the other way round.

[Ronniekirk]

It's another bears crap in the woods "revelation".

Is it because the Hun biased media prefer to play to their majority audience? it's a lot easier than doing journalism where you have to put a bit of thought into what you write but you get paid anyway.
I live in Paisley and the radio every night on the sports section is about Sevco Is Charles Green still involved the Board infighting, the guy Easdale and is Dave King returning from South Africa to oust him at next AGM It's incredible and repetitive .Yet hearts situation doesn't even get a mention sick to the back teeth of it .

[Jonnyboy]

The clubs exist as they are because of the people in Scotland, not the other way round.

:agree:

[Hibs7]

This is an inherent ..inbred attitude which will never change in the west of Scotland. .. So isolating them from society is the only answer . Unless the media actually show them up for what they really are.

[HibeeHutch]

This isn't "Limmy" as in the guy who writes and stars in Limmys Show for anyone wondering. Different people, same surname.

Sorry, my mistake. Limmy is a cream bun though - but did think that was crossing the line even for him.

[basehibby]

Interesting comment from the Grauniad...

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/dec/13/raceandreligion-scotland

Well said Greenslade :aok:.

He's absolutely right that there's a shameful silence from much of our mass media on certain subjects - BECAUSE THEY WANT BIGOTS TO BUY THEIR PAPERS!

It's shameful that the hate crimes perpetrated by this Limmond character are effectively being shoved under the carpet - and nothing short of incredible that bigots flinging about sectarian abuse re the victims of the Clutha tragedy are not being named and shamed and piloried in the press for the low life **** that they are.

It demonstrates that there remain a great many apologists for bigotry in this country and that (far too) many of them are in positions of power.

[s.a.m]

This isn't "Limmy" as in the guy who writes and stars in Limmys Show for anyone wondering. Different people, same surname.

It said in an article that was linked the other day that he's his brother.

[Jonny1875]

Some British papers are definitely anti-CNR, that rag the Sun for example.

[neilmartinrocks]

No such thing as a journalist these days. I could do their job with google and an email address, nobody would know the difference apart from the name at the bottom.
Cut and Paste job done thank you very much. The Sun The Daily Record the lot of them are ENGLISH papers with "Scottish" as part of the banner. Token Scottish stories dredged up from the internet or westminster press releases.

[Blocks Biloxi]

Sorry, my mistake. Limmy is a cream bun though - but did think that was crossing the line even for him.

Limmy's not a football fan of any persuasion. He's been vocally against any kind of sectarianism (orange walks in particular) via his Twitter account in the past.

[Hibee_Dave]

Whilst it's not acceptable for newspapers to choose not to cover certain stories of national importance because it would annoy a high proportion of their readership, from a purely business point of view you can see their logic however what is utterly indefensible is that a public service, state-run media outlet like the BBC can let this slide. So what if it's an isolated incident and not representative of the majority of OF fans, if one of these vermin is punished for his disgusting attitudes and this receives national publicity it may serve as a warning to others. THAT is broadcasting in the public interest.

Journalists and editors have no backbone. BBC or papers. It's disgusting and reflects shockingly on our country.

[hibsbollah]

No such thing as a journalist these days. I could do their job with google and an email address, nobody would know the difference apart from the name at the bottom.
Cut and Paste job done thank you very much. The Sun The Daily Record the lot of them are ENGLISH papers with "Scottish" as part of the banner. Token Scottish stories dredged up from the internet or westminster press releases.

Thats a central point of the article though. The Scottish media's refusal to cover this case and most sectarian stories is shameful, and wouldnt happen in England, or in cases involving race or gender. Its our national shame.

[BarneyK]

As an aside, didn't realise that Paul McConville (of the much read during the Sevco fiasco, ScottishLaw blog) died late last month. Aged only 47. Sad indeed.

[jacomo]

Sorry, my mistake. Limmy is a cream bun though - but did think that was crossing the line even for him.


It said in an article that was linked the other day that he's his brother.

Read the blog and you'll see the irony in this.

Just to be clear... Limmy, creator of the dark sketch comedy TV show, has NOT been convicted of a sectarian offence.

[Matty_Jack04]

Whilst in no way am I saying the media black out for these stories is acceptable can you imagine how it being reported properly could escalate it more? A bit like the media blackout of the casuals in the 80s, stories in the paper are like badges of honour for these idiots, it's a problem that needs addressed in this country for sure I come across it at least once every day however I'm not sure fuelling revenge attacks is the answer

[Ronniekirk]

Whilst in no way am I saying the media black out for these stories is acceptable can you imagine how it being reported properly could escalate it more? A bit like the media blackout of the casuals in the 80s, stories in the paper are like badges of honour for these idiots, it's a problem that needs addressed in this country for sure I come across it at least once every day however I'm not sure fuelling revenge attacks is the answer
We are only looking for fair coverage of an important sports story highlighting ongoing financial irregularities in the game to stamp out cheating and ensuring those that do cheat are appropriately sanctioned. Also fair coverage of one club in comparison to Sevco who hog media coverage every day when they are now out of administration .Are fans of other clubs really not bothered about what's going on at Hear7s .if you are not the old firm the interest in media circles tails off ?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Having read it, it seems like the sort of story that belongs in a local paper. I don't think the actual crime was interesting enough for national coverage.

It's also worth bearing in mind other stories that may have been more newsworthy at the time. The Clutha, and the death of Mandela - for example have taken up a lot of space.

On the subject of the Clutha, Greenslade seems to berate the Scottish media, for failing to pass on some vile Facebook comments. Is that a bad thing?

He says, in England editors would have been onto sectarian comments about the victims, and seen news in it. Maybe the Scottish press wanted to focus on the real story instead of getting diverted by toilet wall graffiti?

I think his blog reflects the views of those who want to be shocked and insulted. I would like to see the press cover stories about real discrimination, for example in employment. But stories about neds taking the bait from sht stirring authors - with their own sectarian agenda - belong beside articles about Sales of Work, and pictures of the bowling club dance.

[Elephant Stone]

Having read it, it seems like the sort of story that belongs in a local paper. I don't think the actual crime was interesting enough for national coverage.


It's about complicity in general, not necessarily this specific incident, and it's spot on. Can you imagine what would happen if a picture of prominent black people emerged like some kind of hit list? There would, rightly, be media attention. This kind of thing is swept under the rug here by the Scottish media, they're scared to talk about or are are just down right complicit, which isn't surprising given they said nothing about an openly sectarian institution for the best part of its existence. Utter cowards.

[Pretty Boy]

Having read it, it seems like the sort of story that belongs in a local paper. I don't think the actual crime was interesting enough for national coverage.

It's also worth bearing in mind other stories that may have been more newsworthy at the time. The Clutha, and the death of Mandela - for example have taken up a lot of space.

On the subject of the Clutha, Greenslade seems to berate the Scottish media, for failing to pass on some vile Facebook comments. Is that a bad thing?

He says, in England editors would have been onto sectarian comments about the victims, and seen news in it. Maybe the Scottish press wanted to focus on the real story instead of getting diverted by toilet wall graffiti?

I think his blog reflects the views of those who want to be shocked and insulted. I would like to see the press cover stories about real discrimination, for example in employment. But stories about neds taking the bait from sht stirring authors - with their own sectarian agenda - belong beside articles about Sales of Work, and pictures of the bowling club dance.

Is the blog not making the point that the story highlighted is indicative of a wider problem?

The incident at Ibrox with the soldiers immediately springs to mind. The Daily Record mentioned it in passing as a bit of harmless fun whilst most other media in Scotland ignored it completely. It was only when footage got out and there was a bit of a public outcry that any journalists acknowledged anything untoward gad gone on. That wasn't the 1st time something like that had gone on either.

Personally i don't think the underlying problem is sectarianism, or at least it's not the biggest issue. The real issue is, for the most part, we have piss poor journalists in the Scottish press not willing to work for a story. Look at the Hearts situation. That is an absolutely huge story waiting to be tapped into: Fraud, deception, missing pension funds, money laundering, a former owner on the run, charities ripped off...... Yet all that gets reported in tye Scottish press is weekly soundbites from some no mark MP and his little group. Investigating the real story would be too much like hard work for the clique.

[Weststandwanab]

I had no idea Limmy was involved in this. Absolutely no excuse for his words.

I also thought it was strange that two prominent Celtic fans chose to write a book about the demise of Rangers. i could never imagine that happening in Edinburgh. If that's not incendiary I don't know what is.

Essentially my view still stands: Scotland would be a far better place if we didn't have either of those clubs in existence.I agree.


The clubs exist as they are because of the people in Scotland, not the other way round.Spot on.


I live in Paisley and the radio every night on the sports section is about Sevco Is Charles Green still involved the Board infighting, the guy Easdale and is Dave King returning from South Africa to oust him at next AGM It's incredible and repetitive .Yet hearts situation doesn't even get a mention sick to the back teeth of it . Try a different radio station.

[Vini1875]

Well said Greenslade :aok:.

He's absolutely right that there's a shameful silence from much of our mass media on certain subjects - BECAUSE THEY WANT BIGOTS TO BUY THEIR PAPERS!

It's shameful that the hate crimes perpetrated by this Limmond character are effectively being shoved under the carpet - and nothing short of incredible that bigots flinging about sectarian abuse re the victims of the Clutha tragedy are not being named and shamed and piloried in the press for the low life **** that they are.

It demonstrates that there remain a great many apologists for bigotry in this country and that (far too) many of them are in positions of power.

As an aside to this debate I wondered about sectarian comments regarding the Clutha tragedy. There is a mosque across the Clyde from the Clutha, I don't know if the message on facebook was regarding this rather than inter- christian bigotry. It would still be sectarian bigotry and racism, just against a different target.

As far as anti-Catholic and anti-Irish bigotry goes don't kid yourself that it is not alive and thriving in Edinburgh. Too often I hear that it is only a west coast problem, but it is pretty much across the board in Scotland, these half wits exist all over.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Is the blog not making the point that the story highlighted is indicative of a wider problem?

The incident at Ibrox with the soldiers immediately springs to mind. The Daily Record mentioned it in passing as a bit of harmless fun whilst most other media in Scotland ignored it completely. It was only when footage got out and there was a bit of a public outcry that any journalists acknowledged anything untoward gad gone on. That wasn't the 1st time something like that had gone on either.

Personally i don't think the underlying problem is sectarianism, or at least it's not the biggest issue. The real issue is, for the most part, we have piss poor journalists in the Scottish press not willing to work for a story. Look at the Hearts situation. That is an absolutely huge story waiting to be tapped into: Fraud, deception, missing pension funds, money laundering, a former owner on the run, charities ripped off...... Yet all that gets reported in tye Scottish press is weekly soundbites from some no mark MP and his little group. Investigating the real story would be too much like hard work for the clique.

An even better angle is to contrast the two Edinburgh clubs. It could read as a modern morality tale, one is humiliated for being cautious, but in the long run is proved to have taken the right path.

Then there is possible mileage in documenting the triumph of the "immigrant" teams over those that represent the establishment. The establishment teams languish as a result of ignoring reality, and believing they had an unquestionable right to maintain their domination. To the extent that they thought they were above the rules.

[Phil D. Rolls]

As an aside to this debate I wondered about sectarian comments regarding the Clutha tragedy. There is a mosque across the Clyde from the Clutha, I don't know if the message on facebook was regarding this rather than inter- christian bigotry. It would still be sectarian bigotry and racism, just against a different target.

As far as anti-Catholic and anti-Irish bigotry goes don't kid yourself that it is not alive and thriving in Edinburgh. Too often I hear that it is only a west coast problem, but it is pretty much across the board in Scotland, these half wits exist all over.

Never encountered it, other than from people looking for an excuse for their own failings. Applies to both sides.

[green day]

As an aside to this debate I wondered about sectarian comments regarding the Clutha tragedy. There is a mosque across the Clyde from the Clutha, I don't know if the message on facebook was regarding this rather than inter- christian bigotry. It would still be sectarian bigotry and racism, just against a different target.

As far as anti-Catholic and anti-Irish bigotry goes don't kid yourself that it is not alive and thriving in Edinburgh. Too often I hear that it is only a west coast problem, but it is pretty much across the board in Scotland, these half wits exist all over.

OK, being precise its not 'only' a west coast problem - but whether you like it or not, it really is a minuscule issue here compared to the west.

[PatHead]

Whilst in no way am I saying the media black out for these stories is acceptable can you imagine how it being reported properly could escalate it more? A bit like the media blackout of the casuals in the 80s, stories in the paper are like badges of honour for these idiots, it's a problem that needs addressed in this country for sure I come across it at least once every day however I'm not sure fuelling revenge attacks is the answer

I take the alternative view that it has to be highlighted. Sweeping it under the carpet or ignoring it will not make it go away.

Sectarianism is a horrible crime, every bit as bad as racism and needs to be faced down. It is about time the BBC in particular as our national broadcaster were held to task. Only action by our politicians will change mindsets.

[neilmartinrocks]

Thats a central point of the article though. The Scottish media's refusal to cover this case and most sectarian stories is shameful, and wouldnt happen in England, or in cases involving race or gender. Its our national shame.

Yeah your right ( I've just read it there the now ) which makes it more obvious when an eedjit like me can come to the same conclusion as the guy who wrote the article. :greengrin

[AndyM_1875]

Having read it, it seems like the sort of story that belongs in a local paper. I don't think the actual crime was interesting enough for national coverage.

It's also worth bearing in mind other stories that may have been more newsworthy at the time. The Clutha, and the death of Mandela - for example have taken up a lot of space.

On the subject of the Clutha, Greenslade seems to berate the Scottish media, for failing to pass on some vile Facebook comments. Is that a bad thing?

He says, in England editors would have been onto sectarian comments about the victims, and seen news in it. Maybe the Scottish press wanted to focus on the real story instead of getting diverted by toilet wall graffiti?

I think his blog reflects the views of those who want to be shocked and insulted. I would like to see the press cover stories about real discrimination, for example in employment. But stories about neds taking the bait from sht stirring authors - with their own sectarian agenda - belong beside articles about Sales of Work, and pictures of the bowling club dance.

I'd agree with much of what you say. These "comments" were some teenage ned posting stupid rubbish on Social media. So why give him credence by making an issue over what you rightly describe as toilet wall graffiti.

And as for bothering about unacceptable bigoted comments made to Phil MacGhiolla Bhain, sorry but no, i wouldn't lose a second of sleep over that. Calls himself a journalist but no paper will touch him for the simple reason that He's a hysterical bigot who trawls the lowest tier of the Internet for his obsessive, tedious, axe grinding agendas. My attitude to him Is When you swim in the sewer, you end up stinking of ****.

[s.a.m]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/headline-written/6897

Alex Thomson's View (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view)



Thursday 19 Dec 2013




How to combat sectarian bigotry in Scotland

It would have been inappropriate to comment on Tomoblog on the matter of David Limond whilst on assignment covering the appalling events in the Central African Republic recently.
So by way of tying up loose ends from the Channel 4 News investigation of intimidation of wider society by a small underclass of Rangers (http://www.channel4.com/news/rangers)“fans”, let me just make the following observations.
David Limond is a criminal and a bigot. Indeed it is his bigotry that led him into criminality and at last he has faced and received justice at Ayr Sheriff Court.
He will face some more next year when he is sentenced and Sheriff Scott Pattison said at his 2-day trial: “I view this as very serious and I am strongly considering a custodial sentence.”
He’s been convicted of sending a threatening communciation aggravated by racial and religious prejudice likely to cause a reasonable person fear or alarm.
What strikes me as odd is that it took the intervention of Channel 4 News to shut down Limond and the vile sectarian and racial hatred he spewed out between 9 and 10 pm on the internet broadcast “Rangers Chat” – an online hateshow.

With the single exception of the victim nobody, but nobody in Scotland did anything about it.
Why didn’t anyone in Scotland bother?
Why didn’t anyone at Rangers bother?
Why didn’t the vast majority of decent Rangers fans bother?
What does this episode tell us about Scotland’s continued blindness to obvious criminal bigotry and racism that nobody, nobody, in that country saw fit to do a single thing to nail Limond – bar the victim herself – until we pitched up?
It so happened that the offensive broadcast of coincided with a Channel4 News investigation of a small minority of Rangers “supporters” who mounted campaigns of intimidation against lawyers, journalists, football club directors – frankly anyone who upset these peculiarly thin-skinned cowards.
We were contacted by the police and handed them a recording of one of Limond’s broadcasts in which he and other likeminded bigots poured obscene and threatening comments at one woman who had had the temerity to do her job and do it well.
Limond called this woman, who is now a successful journalist, a “Provo ****” and a “f***pig”.
His show featured a jingle with the words “Taig of the Day” and “**** of the Day” (for those outwith the sectarian cauldron “taig” is an offensive word for an Irish Catholic).
Angela Haggerty’s “offence” of course, was to have edited Downfall - the highly successful book on the financial implosion of Rangers football club to which I wrote the foreword.
How dare she?
Whilst Limond set about shutting down his website as soon as we broadcast some of its content, she was already receiving a torrent of abusive and frightening comments on Twitter.
Several months later , at 7am the police came knocking at the door and Limond was arrested.
Limond’s defence, (seriously) was that calling his victim a “Provo ****” and so forth, was funny, it was banter and lighthearted. The Sheriff disagrees, so Rangers Chat no longer features Limond, his twitter line no longer exists and Limond is a convict.
The point of this little episode is that everyone and anyone of us has the means to stamp out this kind of thing for the good of Rangers, football and Scotland – say nothing of Glasgow busily buffing up its public image for the Commonwealth Games.
You can simply do what we did, if your concerned about online or offline criminality, record it and send it to the police. If you’ve concerns about the possible repercussions from the bigots, the police are well versed in dealing with anonymity issues.
All football clubs have their lowlife and their underclass – I understand Celtic’s have recently been out and about attacking stadium seats for instance.
Possibly Rangers’ has simply been more active in recent years on the intimidation front because the club imploded and they no doubt felt upset and so – being idiots – lashed out at the messengers instead of reading the message.
Whatever’s been going on and whatever the club or circumstance, the message is simple and clear: if you come across this criminality online, on fan sites, or on social media the law and the police are there for you.
You pay for their service – why not use it?
Follow @alextomo (https://twitter.com/alextomo) on Twitter







- See more at: http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/headline-written/6897#sthash.EhtAteAM.dpuf

[hughio]

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/headline-written/6897

Alex Thomson's View (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view)



Thursday 19 Dec 2013




How to combat sectarian bigotry in Scotland

It would have been inappropriate to comment on Tomoblog on the matter of David Limond whilst on assignment covering the appalling events in the Central African Republic recently.
So by way of tying up loose ends from the Channel 4 News investigation of intimidation of wider society by a small underclass of Rangers (http://www.channel4.com/news/rangers)“fans”, let me just make the following observations.
David Limond is a criminal and a bigot. Indeed it is his bigotry that led him into criminality and at last he has faced and received justice at Ayr Sheriff Court.
He will face some more next year when he is sentenced and Sheriff Scott Pattison said at his 2-day trial: “I view this as very serious and I am strongly considering a custodial sentence.”
He’s been convicted of sending a threatening communciation aggravated by racial and religious prejudice likely to cause a reasonable person fear or alarm.
What strikes me as odd is that it took the intervention of Channel 4 News to shut down Limond and the vile sectarian and racial hatred he spewed out between 9 and 10 pm on the internet broadcast “Rangers Chat” – an online hateshow.

With the single exception of the victim nobody, but nobody in Scotland did anything about it.
Why didn’t anyone in Scotland bother?
Why didn’t anyone at Rangers bother?
Why didn’t the vast majority of decent Rangers fans bother?
What does this episode tell us about Scotland’s continued blindness to obvious criminal bigotry and racism that nobody, nobody, in that country saw fit to do a single thing to nail Limond – bar the victim herself – until we pitched up?
It so happened that the offensive broadcast of coincided with a Channel4 News investigation of a small minority of Rangers “supporters” who mounted campaigns of intimidation against lawyers, journalists, football club directors – frankly anyone who upset these peculiarly thin-skinned cowards.
We were contacted by the police and handed them a recording of one of Limond’s broadcasts in which he and other likeminded bigots poured obscene and threatening comments at one woman who had had the temerity to do her job and do it well.
Limond called this woman, who is now a successful journalist, a “Provo ****” and a “f***pig”.
His show featured a jingle with the words “Taig of the Day” and “**** of the Day” (for those outwith the sectarian cauldron “taig” is an offensive word for an Irish Catholic).
Angela Haggerty’s “offence” of course, was to have edited Downfall - the highly successful book on the financial implosion of Rangers football club to which I wrote the foreword.
How dare she?
Whilst Limond set about shutting down his website as soon as we broadcast some of its content, she was already receiving a torrent of abusive and frightening comments on Twitter.
Several months later , at 7am the police came knocking at the door and Limond was arrested.
Limond’s defence, (seriously) was that calling his victim a “Provo ****” and so forth, was funny, it was banter and lighthearted. The Sheriff disagrees, so Rangers Chat no longer features Limond, his twitter line no longer exists and Limond is a convict.
The point of this little episode is that everyone and anyone of us has the means to stamp out this kind of thing for the good of Rangers, football and Scotland – say nothing of Glasgow busily buffing up its public image for the Commonwealth Games.
You can simply do what we did, if your concerned about online or offline criminality, record it and send it to the police. If you’ve concerns about the possible repercussions from the bigots, the police are well versed in dealing with anonymity issues.
All football clubs have their lowlife and their underclass – I understand Celtic’s have recently been out and about attacking stadium seats for instance.
Possibly Rangers’ has simply been more active in recent years on the intimidation front because the club imploded and they no doubt felt upset and so – being idiots – lashed out at the messengers instead of reading the message.
Whatever’s been going on and whatever the club or circumstance, the message is simple and clear: if you come across this criminality online, on fan sites, or on social media the law and the police are there for you.
You pay for their service – why not use it?
Follow @alextomo (https://twitter.com/alextomo) on Twitter







- See more at: http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/headline-written/6897#sthash.EhtAteAM.dpuf

Its a good question and worrying that we live in a country that won't deal with this issue in an adult detatched way as AlexThomson has done.
If we are to take this country forward seriously to Independence then we need to get some proper grown up thinking and writing on this topic so that all the myopic local pygmies are shown to be what they are.