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View Full Version : Keane & Vieira - Best of enemies



3pm
10-12-2013, 11:02 PM
On ITV4 just now. Sure it'll be repeated.

Good watch.

Northernhibee
10-12-2013, 11:15 PM
Roy Keane really is an utter, utter prick of a man.

Stax
10-12-2013, 11:20 PM
Great watch, some great clips but f!!! Me no love lost between Keane & ferguson :greengrin

HIBERNIAN-0762
10-12-2013, 11:23 PM
Just watched it, great stuff, and to the person who called Keane a dick, he's exactly what missing at Easter Road, a winner!

.Sean.
10-12-2013, 11:26 PM
Roy Keane is an absolute wannker. Well suited to Man U and Celtc.

3pm
10-12-2013, 11:35 PM
Roy Keane is an absolute wannker. Well suited to Man U and Celtc.

I thought he was decent on the programme.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
11-12-2013, 12:03 AM
Documentary about drogba on aswell, really great watch.

HibeeMG
11-12-2013, 12:06 AM
I thought he was decent on the programme.

I've got to agree with that.

Both him and Vieira were excellent. No punches pulled and it was good to see the respect they had for each other.

MWHIBBIES
11-12-2013, 01:40 AM
Just watched it, great stuff, and to the person who called Keane a dick, he's exactly what missing at Easter Road, a winner!You don't need to be a dick to be a winner.

Hibercelona
11-12-2013, 02:43 AM
You don't need to be a dick to be a winner.

It generally helps to be through.

easty
11-12-2013, 07:29 AM
Roy Keane was one of my favourite players when I was younger.

Niffy
11-12-2013, 07:29 AM
I really liked the bit when he was told of Fergie saying he was brilliant in the European game , covering every blade of grass and all that...

"That offends me. It's my job to cover every blade of grass. It's my job to win games for United. You don't thank the Postman for delivering your letters "

That's the right attitude for a top footballer. We could do with more like that.

Jonny1875
11-12-2013, 07:44 AM
I wonder if we had Keane against Spain in the WC would we have won... Deserved to be sent home but.

MWHIBBIES
11-12-2013, 07:47 AM
I really liked the bit when he was told of Fergie saying he was brilliant in the European game , covering every blade of grass and all that...

"That offends me. It's my job to cover every blade of grass. It's my job to win games for United. You don't thank the Postman for delivering your letters "

That's the right attitude for a top footballer. We could do with more like that.Personally think that is Roy Keane just being a smart arse. It isn't difficult to be respectful to your teammates/manager and opponents while still being a top player.

Keane was great but he is a classless bawbag off the field and sometimes on it.

smurf
11-12-2013, 07:52 AM
I would be surprised if those calling Keane all sorts watched this. He came across very well I thought. Both did in an excellent programme.

3pm
11-12-2013, 08:05 AM
It was some combined team they came up with.

Players left out included Bergkamp, Van Nistelrooy and Petit!

Giggs, Scholes, Overmars and Franny Jeffers not even in their own fantasy teams.

GordonHFC
11-12-2013, 08:15 AM
Roy Keane really is an utter, utter prick of a man.

This.

JollyGreenGiant
11-12-2013, 08:29 AM
It was some combined team they came up with.

Players left out included Bergkamp, Van Nistelrooy and Petit!

Giggs, Scholes, Overmars and Franny Jeffers not even in their own fantasy teams.

Can't believe he picked Beckham over Scholes or Giggs, and not even a mention of Yorke or Cole.

Scouse Hibee
11-12-2013, 08:50 AM
Roy Keane was the type of opposition player you loved to hate because he was so good, the type of player you would love to have in your team. He was never bullied on the pitch and he certainly wont allow himself to be bullied off it now he's finished playing. Respect from me despite the fact I hated the prick as a Manure player.

hibs4thecup1988
11-12-2013, 09:02 AM
I would be surprised if those calling Keane all sorts watched this. He came across very well I thought. Both did in an excellent programme.

Both came accross rather well in my view.

However - the fact remains that Keane has zero respect for a manager who gave him his break in football.

Best manager Brian Clough...I mean really?

lapsedhibee
11-12-2013, 09:12 AM
Both came accross rather well in my view.

However - the fact remains that Keane has zero respect for a manager who gave him his break in football.

Best manager Brian Clough...I mean really?

:confused: Shirley Forest was "his break in football"?

stu in nottingham
11-12-2013, 09:29 AM
Brian Clough brought Keane to Forest from Cobh Ramblers. He was a superb player before he ever played for Man Utd.

Treadstone
11-12-2013, 09:52 AM
Both came accross rather well in my view.

However - the fact remains that Keane has zero respect for a manager who gave him his break in football.

Best manager Brian Clough...I mean really?

Another of the 'football started in 1992' fandans.

Scouse Hibee
11-12-2013, 10:06 AM
Both came accross rather well in my view.

However - the fact remains that Keane has zero respect for a manager who gave him his break in football.

Best manager Brian Clough...I mean really?

What do you mean really? Please explain.

Not sure how old you are but I suggest you use google if you know nothing of Nottingham Forerst, Keane and Clough.

MWHIBBIES
11-12-2013, 10:24 AM
Both came accross rather well in my view.

However - the fact remains that Keane has zero respect for a manager who gave him his break in football.

Best manager Brian Clough...I mean really?Not surprising considering in many peoples opinion he is the best manager of all time.

What Fergie done over such a long time was brilliant but no one will ever win the champions league twice within 3 years of promotion to the top league ever again.

Peevemor
11-12-2013, 10:30 AM
Not surprising considering in many peoples opinion he is the best manager of all time.

What Fergie done over such a long time was brilliant but no one will ever win the champions league twice within 3 years of promotion to the top league ever again.

You may be correct, but that's more about money that managerial skill.

stu in nottingham
11-12-2013, 10:32 AM
What Fergie done over such a long time was brilliant but no one will ever win the champions league twice within 3 years of promotion to the top league ever again.

Nor will anyone every achieve what Brian Clough and Peter Taylor did again - especially on much less resources.

Scouse Hibee
11-12-2013, 11:12 AM
Not surprising considering in many peoples opinion he is the best manager of all time.

What Fergie done over such a long time was brilliant but no one will ever win the champions league twice within 3 years of promotion to the top league ever again.

No-one has ever done it :wink:

blackpoolhibs
11-12-2013, 11:14 AM
Just watched it, and to me it comes across as two ex players talking about how far they could push the boundary's and how much they could cheat and intimidate the ref and the opposition.

hibees 7062
11-12-2013, 11:19 AM
I would be surprised if those calling Keane all sorts watched this. He came across very well I thought. Both did in an excellent programme.

:agree:

HibeeMG
11-12-2013, 11:19 AM
Just watched it, and to me it comes across as two ex players talking about how far they could push the boundary's and how much they could cheat and intimidate the ref and the opposition.

I didn't see them saying they tried to intimidate or cheat the ref to be fair. Intimidating each other and the opposition is fair game though. They were bloody good at it and it was a major part in both teams being as successful as they were.

hibees 7062
11-12-2013, 11:21 AM
Roy Keane was the type of opposition player you loved to hate because he was so good, the type of player you would love to have in your team. He was never bullied on the pitch and he certainly wont allow himself to be bullied off it now he's finished playing. Respect from me despite the fact I hated the prick as a Manure player.

Says it all mate :agree:

hibees 7062
11-12-2013, 11:23 AM
Brian Clough brought Keane to Forest from Cobh Ramblers. He was a superb player before he ever played for Man Utd.


Exactly , thatll be why he signed him

stu in nottingham
11-12-2013, 11:35 AM
Exactly , thatll be why he signed him

A shame he couldn't have spotted it earlier. He could have had him for forty-seven grand like Cloughie did instead of 3.75 million. :wink:

blackpoolhibs
11-12-2013, 11:44 AM
I didn't see them saying they tried to intimidate or cheat the ref to be fair. Intimidating each other and the opposition is fair game though. They were bloody good at it and it was a major part in both teams being as successful as they were.

They didnt say it, but the way they chased refs round the park when a decision went against them, or the way they fouled anything that moved is a form of intimidation, especially when the ref is as weak as some of them used to be.

HKhibby
11-12-2013, 12:14 PM
Not surprising considering in many peoples opinion he is the best manager of all time.

What Fergie done over such a long time was brilliant but no one will ever win the champions league twice within 3 years of promotion to the top league ever again.

Both won the European / Champions league 3 times, but were different times in Football!, i dont actually like Clough as a person but as a manager he was fantastic!...Ferguson well he is much the same kind of person, but just that little more likeable and savvy! because i really do not think Clough would have done it with Man Utd...because of different eras and times etc.. although not that far apart!, but Clough 5 years back? i dont think so...or now!, Ferguson can do it and adapt to the changes whether they are good or not.

lapsedhibee
11-12-2013, 12:28 PM
Both won the European / Champions league 3 times, but were different times in Football!, i dont actually like Clough as a person but as a manager he was fantastic!...Ferguson well he is much the same kind of person, but just that little more likeable and savvy! because i really do not think Clough would have done it with Man Utd...because of different eras and times etc.. although not that far apart!, but Clough 5 years back? i dont think so...or now!, Ferguson can do it and adapt to the changes whether they are good or not.

What are you saying! That Clough is not as good a manager as Ferguson is right now!!

Northernhibee
11-12-2013, 12:41 PM
Roy Keane was the type of opposition player you loved to hate because he was so good, the type of player you would love to have in your team. He was never bullied on the pitch and he certainly wont allow himself to be bullied off it now he's finished playing. Respect from me despite the fact I hated the prick as a Manure player.

Personally I hate him for ending Haalands career.

stu in nottingham
11-12-2013, 12:47 PM
Both won the European / Champions league 3 times, but were different times in Football!,.

Clough and Taylor won the European Cup twice with Forest in 1979 against Malmo and 1980 versus Hamburg.

Treadstone
11-12-2013, 12:59 PM
Clough and Taylor won the European Cup twice with Forest in 1979 against Malmo and 1980 versus Hamburg.

Thought the person that corrected this would also say Fergie never won it three times either.

stu in nottingham
11-12-2013, 01:20 PM
Thought the person that corrected this would also say Fergie never won it three times either.

:greengrin I don't really pay too much attention to Manchester United and Alex Ferguson but I do live five miles from the City Ground and remember the celebrations quite vividly!

I watched Roy Keane as a young player at Forest quite a few times. His talent was evident straight away and if I recall correctly Clough pitched him in to a baptism of fire at Anfield very early on in his career at Forest. He was quite a different player in those days to the one people remember at United, he'd get forward a lot more rather than sitting back as he came to do. Scored a decent percentage of goals from midfield too, quite a few with his head perhaps surprisingly.

He was always a player with great drive then, though it wasn't unknown for him to get himself in trouble off the pitch a bit.

GreenCastle
11-12-2013, 01:58 PM
Vieira - World Cup Winner 1998 and Euro 2000 winner

Keane - Champions League Winner (though didn't play in final) - 1998

Vieira was the better all round player - Keane was effective at times but limited in several ways.

Both have a nasty side and were winners.

I like how Keane speaks up about Fergie as seems in football too many people are scared to say what they think. I don't like how keen he admits to injuring opposition players and how he kept saying he was a hard man - a hard man doesn't need to try broadcast it.

You also get the feeling Keane even though he was a captain struggles with people skills. Is this the reason he has failed as manager several times as he doesn't always see things in different ways - it's his way or no way.

Vieira seems more relaxed now he has finished playing and is coaching the Man City reserve team I think - will be interesting to see if he has aims to be a manager or stays as a coach.

If anyone watched the Drogba programme after it was quite a contrast between the Keane and Vieira story. Drogba came across very well though even though he has had issues with his reputation during his career.

Pretty Boy
11-12-2013, 02:25 PM
Vieira - World Cup Winner 1998 and Euro 2000 winner

Keane - Champions League Winner (though didn't play in final) - 1998

Vieira was the better all round player - Keane was effective at times but limited in several ways.

Both have a nasty side and were winners.

I like how Keane speaks up about Fergie as seems in football too many people are scared to say what they think. I don't like how keen he admits to injuring opposition players and how he kept saying he was a hard man - a hard man doesn't need to try broadcast it.

You also get the feeling Keane even though he was a captain struggles with people skills. Is this the reason he has failed as manager several times as he doesn't always see things in different ways - it's his way or no way.

Vieira seems more relaxed now he has finished playing and is coaching the Man City reserve team I think - will be interesting to see if he has aims to be a manager or stays as a coach.

If anyone watched the Drogba programme after it was quite a contrast between the Keane and Vieira story. Drogba came across very well though even though he has had issues with his reputation during his career.

No doubt Keane struggles with people skills, you see it even now when he is a pundit.

A few years ago just after Keane had been sacked by Sunderland, Dwight Yorke, who Keane had signed, sent him a text saying he was sorry things hadn't worked out and he wished he could have done more for him. The reply was 'Go **** yourself'. Nice way to speak to a man who you had known for many years in football.

It always seems to me that United success throughout the 90s and early 00s was as much about Fergie and Keane ruling by fear and an absolute unwillingness to accept anything less than 100% every game as it was tactical or individual brilliance. I think Keanes problem became that he couldn't adapt and embrace changes in the game in the way that Fegie could and did. Ferguson let him away with it whilst he was still useful to him as a player, as soon as Keanes legs started to go he became disposable and Fergie took the chance. Absolutely ruthless but i think that's what annoys Keane more than anything, he knows deep down Fergie was right.

GreenCastle
11-12-2013, 02:34 PM
No doubt Keane struggles with people skills, you see it even now when he is a pundit.

A few years ago just after Keane had been sacked by Sunderland, Dwight Yorke, who Keane had signed, sent him a text saying he was sorry things hadn't worked out and he wished he could have done more for him. The reply was 'Go **** yourself'. Nice way to speak to a man who you had known for many years in football.

It always seems to me that United success throughout the 90s and early 00s was as much about Fergie and Keane ruling by fear and an absolute unwillingness to accept anything less than 100% every game as it was tactical or individual brilliance. I think Keanes problem became that he couldn't adapt and embrace changes in the game in the way that Fegie could and did. Ferguson let him away with it whilst he was still useful to him as a player, as soon as Keanes legs started to go he became disposable and Fergie took the chance. Absolutely ruthless but i think that's what annoys Keane more than anything, he knows deep down Fergie was right.

:agree:

When you saw Keane play for Celtic after leaving Man Utd - he really wasn't anywhere close to where he used to be.

He said it last night Man Utd was a perfect fit for him wanting to win and the more you hear it seems Fergie got several years out of him and they both needed each other during this time but when Keane struggled Fergie moved him on and Keane obviously didn't take this well - and possibly comes across now as slightly bitter for being ditched while others like Giggs are still playing etc.

Northernhibee
11-12-2013, 03:20 PM
In the Secret Footballers book he tells of a story of when Dwight Yorke started playing for Man Utd, Keane blasted a pass at him and in an attempt to belittle him told him Cantona would have stopped it stone dead, right in the middle of the game.

I wouldn't have thought less of Dwight Yorke if he went in studs up at knee height in the next training session and told him Cantona wouldn't have felt it - to sabotage your own team mate because you think you're bigger than the club is awful form.

carnoustiehibee
11-12-2013, 03:53 PM
In the Secret Footballers book he tells of a story of when Dwight Yorke started playing for Man Utd, Keane blasted a pass at him and in an attempt to belittle him told him Cantona would have stopped it stone dead, right in the middle of the game.

I wouldn't have thought less of Dwight Yorke if he went in studs up at knee height in the next training session and told him Cantona wouldn't have felt it - to sabotage your own team mate because you think you're bigger than the club is awful form.

We get it, you don't like Roy Keane

What, and maybe end keane career with a knee high haaland esc tackle..Was it not to show Yorke the standard required to play for man utd and nothing to do with trying to make a fool of him. Was kitson or whoever the secret footballer is even there?

Northernhibee
11-12-2013, 04:23 PM
We get it, you don't like Roy Keane

What, and maybe end keane career with a knee high haaland esc tackle..Was it not to show Yorke the standard required to play for man utd and nothing to do with trying to make a fool of him. Was kitson or whoever the secret footballer is even there?

I'm only going by the standards of the man himself, he was so obviously ashamed of his actions the Haaland tackle made his autobiography.

It's not Keane who decides the standard required to play for Man Utd (besides, you might pull a stunt like that on the training field but not in the middle of a competitive game) - it's the manager who sets the standard and Keane's managerial record has shown that Ferguson knows a ****load more than Keane when it comes to football. Take the Yorke incident, his outburst on MUTV, the Haaland tackle - the man was a nasty, nasty piece of work and it's a shame that Haaland didn't get the option of how his promising career ended, he deserved to play out his final games at his childhood club rather than Keane.

Man Utd would have achieved even more with Viera in midfield rather than Keane in my mind for certain.

stu in nottingham
11-12-2013, 05:48 PM
I was always intrigued by the famous Brian Clough quote regarding 'hard-man', Keane:

'I only ever hit Roy [Keane] once. He got up so I couldn't have hit him very hard'.

Wiki offers an account of it:

'he made a costly error against Crystal Palace, gifting a goal to the opposition and allowing them to draw the game. On returning to the dressing room after the game, Clough punched Keane in the face in anger, knocking him to the floor. Despite this incident, Keane bore no hard feelings against his manager, later claiming that he sympathised with Clough due to the pressures of management and that he was too grateful to him for giving him his chance in English football.'

Trouble has followed Keane around since his early days. I recall one incident where he was arrested at a Nottingham night club and I'm pretty sure the incident started with him throwing a drink over a woman or something similarly unsavoury. A few of those incidents are listed below. In short, a very effective footballer indeed, world-class in fact and yes, definitely one you'd want on your side but a total psychopath at times. I think his former nickname amongst the players and staff at Old Trafford suited him well, 'The Beast'.

MWHIBBIES
11-12-2013, 06:59 PM
Nor will anyone every achieve what Brian Clough and Peter Taylor did again - especially on much less resources.That is what they achieved, that is why I said it.

stu in nottingham
11-12-2013, 07:02 PM
That is what they achieved, that is why I said it.

Fair play bud, sorry, I misunderstood you.

HibbyAndy
11-12-2013, 07:20 PM
Vieira eh , What a player he was for Arsenal.a truly world class player that tackled and won everything.

GreenCastle
11-12-2013, 10:35 PM
I was always intrigued by the famous Brian Clough quote regarding 'hard-man', Keane:

'I only ever hit Roy [Keane] once. He got up so I couldn't have hit him very hard'.

Wiki offers an account of it:

'he made a costly error against Crystal Palace, gifting a goal to the opposition and allowing them to draw the game. On returning to the dressing room after the game, Clough punched Keane in the face in anger, knocking him to the floor. Despite this incident, Keane bore no hard feelings against his manager, later claiming that he sympathised with Clough due to the pressures of management and that he was too grateful to him for giving him his chance in English football.'

Trouble has followed Keane around since his early days. I recall one incident where he was arrested at a Nottingham night club and I'm pretty sure the incident started with him throwing a drink over a woman or something similarly unsavoury. A few of those incidents are listed below. In short, a very effective footballer indeed, world-class in fact and yes, definitely one you'd want on your side but a total psychopath at times. I think his former nickname amongst the players and staff at Old Trafford suited him well, 'The Beast'.

Effective but no chance world class - could name 1000 players before him who could be considered world class!

3pm
11-12-2013, 11:08 PM
Effective but no chance world class - could name 1000 players before him who could be considered world class!

IMO he was world class. Folk lost site of how good he was because of the hard man image.

GreenCastle
12-12-2013, 12:03 AM
IMO he was world class. Folk lost site of how good he was because of the hard man image.

Disagree - vastly over rated.

Ask many people around the world about him and most have never heard of him. He's a big deal in the UK as he captained Man U and has managed / been on TV here.

World Class players are remembered around the WORLD - not just a big fish in a small pond. :wink:

portyhibernian
13-12-2013, 12:16 PM
Vieira ten times the player and infinitely more class about him than Keane. Roy Keane strikes me as a guy who demanded respect rather than earned it. No doubt Keane was a great player but when both at the top of their game Vieira was world class, Keane wasn't.

Wembley67
13-12-2013, 12:35 PM
Effective but no chance world class - could name 1000 players before him who could be considered world class!

1000 players? Ok go for it....10 or 20 players better than Keane at the top of his game I would be struggling.

This will keep me going on a Friday afternoon :greengrin

As others have said, the guy was a born winner, hard but a fighter and winner that would drive the team on. Every single team needs someone like that as well know so how folk can have a pop at him I do not know.

Andy74
13-12-2013, 12:45 PM
Roy Keane made the effort to contact Cody Mulhall when he got his long term injury recently. Decent thing to do.

BurghHibby
13-12-2013, 01:50 PM
Personally I hate him for ending Haalands career.

You live by the sword ...........
Not a nice incident but then again Haaland was no shrinking violet!

Treadstone
13-12-2013, 02:05 PM
You live by the sword ...........
Not a nice incident but then again Haaland was no shrinking violet!

Absolute balderdash. There must be another Haaland.

stevenhibs
13-12-2013, 02:34 PM
Roy Keane strikes me as a guy who demanded respect rather than earned it.

I wouldn't say that mattered too much. More than one way to skin a cat and all that.

No one can say that it wasn't effective regardless of how he done it.