Caldwell

[hfc rd]

What happened? He got substituted on and then went off in a huff.

[Diclonius]

Sounds like he was put on, didn't bother for ten mins and then got hooked.

[Pretty Boy]

Sounds like he was put on, didn't bother for ten mins and then got hooked.

Sums it up.

A harsh lesson from Butcher but one the whole squad should take on board. No passengers now.

[Northernhibee]

Needs to apologise publically to Butcher or train with the youth team for a month imo.

Have a word on the training ground but never, ever publically disrespect the manager.

[Jim44]

Silly boy.

[weonlywon6-2]

Sums it up.

A harsh lesson from Butcher but one the whole squad should take on board. No passengers now.


Probably just for Caldwell,the rest seem to have worked their socks off

[hibsbollah]

Apologise and move on and im sure it'll be yesterday's news.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Butcher made a massive point by pulling him off.

Work your socks off or find a new club. Caldwell's lack of effort today was a disgrace and im delighted Butcher did what he did.

[matty_f]

Butcher made a massive point by pulling him off. :tee hee:


Work your socks off or find a new club. Caldwell's lack of effort today was a disgrace and im delighted Butcher did what he did.

:agree:

[Pretty Boy]

Probably just for Caldwell,the rest seem to have worked their socks off

Indeed. It's a wee reminder nonetheless. That kind of effort at all times and we will be ok. Today was great.

[Ronniekirk]

Needs to apologise publically to Butcher or train with the youth team for a month imo.

Have a word on the training ground but never, ever publically disrespect the manager.
Heard he isn't good trainer and thinks he is better than others and should be playing I think he has blown it and to be honest butcher needs to and clearly will stamp his authority on this team Caldwell is out of contract in summer and if he hasn't grasped nettle by now then let's start being ruthless Vine also They are taking up wages yet not putting in the graft butcher has demanded. Collins is a different problem he puts in the graft no question but needs to develop more skill

[hfc rd]

Butcher made a massive point by pulling him off.

Work your socks off or find a new club. Caldwell's lack of effort today was a disgrace and im delighted Butcher did what he did.



Exactly. The players were let off, so lightly be Fenlon. I like this new method that Butcher has adopted here. If you don't work hard, you don't play. Seems right.

[Aldo]

Butcher made a massive point by pulling him off. Work your socks off or find a new club. Caldwell's lack of effort today was a disgrace and im delighted Butcher did what he did.

For a young lad trying to progress totally wrong attitude. Folk go on about Collins but I bet that guy ran ran and ran.

No place in the team/squad/ club for billy big boots or prima donnas.

Caldwell is in for a shock.

[Franck Stanton]

Butcher made a massive point by pulling him off.

Work your socks off or find a new club. Caldwell's lack of effort today was a disgrace and im delighted Butcher did what he did.

And to think that when I played football all we ever got was a slice of orange. :wink:

[SneakersO'Toole]

For a young lad trying to progress totally wrong attitude. Folk go on about Collins but I bet that guy ran ran and ran.

No place in the team/squad/ club for billy big boots or prima donnas.

Caldwell is in for a shock.

Collins was excellent today and deserved a goal.

11/10 for work ethic from the big guy today. Ran himself into the ground.

[weonlywon6-2]

Sums it up.

A harsh lesson from Butcher but one the whole squad should take on board. No passengers now.


Probably just for Caldwell,the rest seem to have worked their socks off

[Aldo]

Collins was excellent today and deserved a goal. 11/10 for work ethic from the big guy today. Ran himself into the ground.

As he does when he plays every game.
Just a young guy himself but it's bout attitude... And it's clear Caldwell needs to take a big leaf out of Collins attitude book.

[Northernhibee]

Heard he isn't good trainer and thinks he is better than others and should be playing I think he has blown it and to be honest butcher needs to and clearly will stamp his authority on this team Caldwell is out of contract in summer and if he hasn't grasped nettle by now then let's start being ruthless Vine also They are taking up wages yet not putting in the graft butcher has demanded. Collins is a different problem he puts in the graft no question but needs to develop more skill

I still think Vine has a part to play for us.

With Handling and Cummings Caldwell is probably sixth choice striker for me, think his time is up.

Great goal vs Hearts mind you.

[banchoryhibs]

For too long we've had players who think that they are "above" the manager - it's great to see some immediate discipline being applied.

No messing with TB and MM - suits me! :agree:

[PeterboroHibee]

Theres really no excuse for Caldwell today. I think a player can be disappointed being subbed, but when its through their own lack of effort their really isnt a leg to stand on. Id be interested to see what Butcher makes of it, particularly with Handling, Collins and The Heff all in contention for those spaces (along with Vine/Cummings on the fringes), Caldwell may have done his career at Hibs a significant amount of damage through one moment of stupidity!

[Itsnoteasy]

Common knowledge that he thinks he is Billy Big Time. Shape up or ship oot

[Andy74]

For too long we've had players who think that they are "above" the manager - it's great to see some immediate discipline being applied.

No messing with TB and MM - suits me! :agree:

Who thought they were above the last manager?

Surprised Caldwell has made recent squads. Don't think he has the ability or the application.

Most on here thought he should have played more. Perhaps the manager was not being messed with?

[Treadstone]

Anyone else thinking TB would do this whether it was his 102nd game or his 2nd game in?

Looks like a resounding thumbs up for Tel.

[Northernhibee]

Who thought they were above the last manager?

Surprised Caldwell has made recent squads. Don't think he has the ability or the application.

Most on here thought he should have played more. Perhaps the manager was not being messed with?

I mind Agogo and Palsson being shipped out quickly under PF.

[Hibby Bairn]

Theres really no excuse for Caldwell today. I think a player can be disappointed being subbed, but when its through their own lack of effort their really isnt a leg to stand on. Id be interested to see what Butcher makes of it, particularly with Handling, Collins and The Heff all in contention for those spaces (along with Vine/Cummings on the fringes), Caldwell may have done his career at Hibs a significant amount of damage through one moment of stupidity!

Or it could be the making of him. :agree:

[PeterboroHibee]

Or it could be the making of him. :agree:

Of course! But I think its going to have to rely on him putting in a lot more effort than he has so far. And hes going to have to try particularly hard to get back in favour with Butcher.

[Itsnoteasy]

Darren Macormack springs to mind. Where is he now.

[cat1875]

to be honest dissapointed not to see cummings on the bench before him today anyway hat trick in the same game Caldwell only scored 1 goal in should have been him in the stand not cummings anyway IMO

[lucky]

This lads got an attitude problem remember his tweets when Hibs signed Collins. He has to learn quickly or his career will gone.

[Speedway]

This lads got an attitude problem remember his tweets when Hibs signed Collins. He has to learn quickly or his career will gone.

It would appear that Ross has 'been telt'

[HibbyAndy]

The guy doesnt appear to be the full shullin

[delbert]

I still think Vine has a part to play for us.

With Handling and Cummings Caldwell is probably sixth choice striker for me, think his time is up.

Great goal vs Hearts mind you.

His attitude is honking, have seen him a few times in the U/20's and his work ethic has been zero, can anyone really think of seeing this guy really apply himself since that goal. He hasn't been in the team because he hasn't deserved to be there, he either screws the nut or he can take his minging attitude elsewhere.

[Sir David Gray]

This will send out a message to everyone that you can't give any less than 100% or you won't be playing.

Caldwell has clearly been given a specific instruction when he came on and he has failed to carry that out. Only has himself to blame.

[KeithTheHibby]

1 goal against Hearts (albeit a winner) and he thinks he's billy big time. If he had the attitude of Handling he would be in the team, simple as.
A striking berth has been available for 6 months but his attitude is clearly all wrong otherwise he'd have made more starts.
Lucky to be on the bench today as Cummings must have been very close to being given a jersey.
I hope he's extremely embarrassed.

[RedHibby]

Pleased to see a manager that is not willing to accept less than a 100% work rate.

[oconnors_strip]

Darren Macormack springs to mind. Where is he now.

Captain of airdrie

[Hibstrooper]

And to think that when I played football all we ever got was a slice of orange. :wink:

:top marks

[hibee_girl]

Caldwell's latest twitter post:

“@rossycee1: So many people think they know everything, would shock some to know the truth but all entitled to an opinion even if it's wrong”

[Onceinawhile]

"@rossycee1: So many people think they know everything, would shock some to know the truth but all entitled to an opinion even if it's wrong"

[Diclonius]

Caldwell's latest twitter post:

“@rossycee1: So many people think they know everything, would shock some to know the truth but all entitled to an opinion even if it's wrong”

Passive-aggressive tweeting at its finest.

[Northernhibee]

Get him punted.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Caldwell's latest twitter post:

“@rossycee1: So many people think they know everything, would shock some to know the truth but all entitled to an opinion even if it's wrong”



so shock us then...go on, dare ya

[TheReg!]

One thing for sure is that Cummings is a shoe in for next weeks squad in place of Caldwell.

[Heisenberg]

He's not good enough IMO. Couple that with not working hard and he'll be out the door come January.

[O'Rourke3]

"@rossycee1: So many people think they know everything, would shock some to know the truth but all entitled to an opinion even if it's wrong"

Either he a philosopher or a very naughty boy. Reads like toys oot the pram

[ehf]

Get him punted.

He is not going to come back from that. What an idiot.

[Ritchie]

At the end of the day young players who have shown more promise, desire and talent have been shown the door for less. All I ever seem to hear is negative stuff about him. Get rid in January. And give young Cummings his place.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

The laddie's pish, I've said that for long enough now.

[Flanny boy]

If the player doesn't give 100 per cent
& has the wrong attitude,get rid,simple

[hibees 7062]

Darren Macormack springs to mind. Where is he now.

Airdrie

[Saorsa]

Needs tae wind his neck in and get on with it. He's achieved nothing in the game yet, he should maybe start listening tae the people who have. I think Butcher was quite right tae hook him if he wisnae puting in the effort, if he's no prepared tae do that then tattie bye. Time we had a manger prepared tae put people in their place. I can put up with slightly less talented players but anybody that disnae want tae try or put in the effort and who thinks they can just put in as little as they please or think they can get away with can leave at the earliest opportunity.

Shape up or ship out

[Westie1875]

"@rossycee1: So many people think they know everything, would shock some to know the truth but all entitled to an opinion even if it's wrong"

Stupid boy posting that, can't see him lasting long under Butcher with the attitude he seems to have.

[hibees 7062]

so shock us then...go on, dare ya

:agree::agree::agree:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

For too long we've had players who think that they are "above" the manager - it's great to see some immediate discipline being applied.

No messing with TB and MM - suits me! :agree:

This! I think we all know there's only going to be one winner in this little spat.

[theonlywayisup]

The laddie's pish, I've said that for long enough now.

I recall watching the Hibs - Hertz u19 cup game a couple of season ago at Easter Road. Hertz had gone 1 up and I recall saying that Caldwell look like a total donkey to me. He did absolutely nothing.

Then suddenly, wham bang boosh, two sights at goal and two goals later, we won 2-1. Did absolutely nothing, but scored two goals. He loves scoring against Them.

[Purehibee_MYB]

Would like to know the truth if we apparently don't know it!

Had high hopes for him but I just dunno now

[HFC07]

For me the whole starting team done really well, running and closing down a lot of the play. But when Caldwell came one you would of expected him to run as fast as the boys did in the first half.
But instead his lack of effort was shocking especially as we were trying to press for a second.

10/10 to butcher for seeing how awful he was and hooked him.

[3pm]

Has it been confirmed he was taken off for a lack of effort?!

[delbert]

"@rossycee1: So many people think they know everything, would shock some to know the truth but all entitled to an opinion even if it's wrong"

He is of course correct that most, if not all of us don't know the back story, of course we don't, but surely he must know that pretty well any fans recognise simple lack of effort, something that becomes magnified when everyone else around him is out there sweating blood. When Caldwell went off he should have had a good look round the dressing room and he might just note that Fenlon isn't there anymore, things have changed, hopefully for the better - anf if he doesn't want to buy into that change, then so be it, close the door behind you on your way out.

[lord bunberry]

Hopefully this will be the wake up call the boy needs. He's obviously got talent or he wouldn't be were he is now but if he's not prepared to work hard and carry out the managers instructions then he will be yet another footballer who has wasted his chance.

[Del Boy]

He is of course correct that most, if not all of us don't know the back story, of course we don't, but surely he must know that pretty well any fans recognise simple lack of effort, something that becomes magnified when everyone else around him is out there sweating blood. When Caldwell went off he should have had a good look round the dressing room and he might just note that Fenlon isn't there anymore, things have changed, hopefully for the better - anf if he doesn't want to buy into that change, then so be it, close the door behind you on your way out.

Crap attitude, crap player. Probably played his last game in a Hibs shirt.

[jabis]

Needs tae wind his neck in and get on with it. He's achieved nothing in the game yet, he should maybe start listening tae the people who have. I think Butcher was quite right tae hook him if he wisnae puting in the effort, if he's no prepared tae do that then tattie bye. Time we had a manger prepared tae put people in their place. I can put up with slightly less talented players but anybody that disnae want tae try or put in the effort and who thinks they can just put in as little as they please or think they can get away with can leave at the earliest opportunity.

Shape up or ship out

if i scored the winner against hearts,i would still be watching it 50yrs later,on youtube,with a box of tissues :greengrin

[cleanyman]

Don't even bother putting on the shirt next time Ross. Every player barring you worked their socks off for the team today.

Maybury chasing down a man Caldwell just left sums it up. 35 years old, take note

[Hiber-nation]

Today is not about Ross Caldwell. Let's wait and see what TB does and how Caldwell reacts. He's still young and very naive.

[Tyler Durden]

It's a bit sad so many people are lining up to slate Caldwell. We also have folk jumping to conclusions that Kevin Thomson isn't buying into the hard work of the new regime etc. And plenty folk writing off Handling previously but now he's the hero.

Seems like Caldwell made an @rse of himself today and Butcher will no doubt deal with it. Could be a valuable lesson and hopefully he moves on and grasps the next chance he gets.

[staunchhibby]

I have watched Caldwell a few times with the under 20s and feel he thinks he is a prima donna.So hopefuly today will give him the message that he is supposed to be a team player.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

so shock us then...go on, dare ya

At times we can all be a bit hasty to jump on things without knowing the whole facts surrounding (I include myself in that). Is Ross not from the West? Perhaps one of his family or friends was caught up in yesterday's tragedy?

Who knows we all have our personal lives outside our place of work. It's not always possible to shut some of the curveballs life throws in your way - we're all human. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and have faith in Terry to resolve what needs to be.

[Saorsa]

if i scored the winner against hearts,i would still be watching it 50yrs later,on youtube,with a box of tissues :greengrin:greengrin

Seriously though, he cannae live off that for ever and needs tae buck up his ideas. Players can be limited by ability (and we all want the best) but everybody can put in effort and hard work, not doing that much at least is unacceptable on any level (and that applies tae anybody in a Hibs jersey) as far as I'm concerned and I dinnae see TB tolerating it.

Anybody that disnae want tae at least put in effort can clear their locker, we've had a few too many of them in recent years. At least now we have somebody that will put an end tae the nonsense.

[rcarter1]

Who thought they were above the last manager?

Surprised Caldwell has made recent squads. Don't think he has the ability or the application.

Most on here thought he should have played more. Perhaps the manager was not being messed with?

Thats the problem, he has plenty of ability. So far he is in the 'I scored against Hearts and therefore I am a God brigade' of mentality. I really hope that TB+co turn him around because hard work on top of ability is something we cant afford to buy.

[Www1875hfc]

Thats the problem, he has plenty of ability. So far he is in the 'I scored against Hearts and therefore I am a God brigade' of mentality. I really hope that TB+co turn him around because hard work on top of ability is something we cant afford to buy.

Prime example is Tony Watt, Billy Big Baws ever since he scored a goal against Barcelona?

Hope for Ross' sake he buys into Butcher and Malpas' way of thinking.

[nonshinyfinish]

It's a bit sad so many people are lining up to slate Caldwell. We also have folk jumping to conclusions that Kevin Thomson isn't buying into the hard work of the new regime etc. And plenty folk writing off Handling previously but now he's the hero.

Seems like Caldwell made an @rse of himself today and Butcher will no doubt deal with it. Could be a valuable lesson and hopefully he moves on and grasps the next chance he gets.

I agree, I don't want to go in with the boot without knowing the whole story. It seems Tel taught Caldwell a lesson today, we should hope that he learns from it, rather than consigning him to the scrap heap.

That said, I think it's good that the manager clearly isn't going to take any s*** and isn't going to accept players not working hard. Regardless of ability, a team where every player gives it their all would be a great start.

[MWHIBBIES]

Sure I read on here he was the next big thing and that Handling was poor?

[Jim44]

Caldwell's latest twitter post:

“@rossycee1: So many people think they know everything, would shock some to know the truth but all entitled to an opinion even if it's wrong”

The tone of this tweet suggests he has an issue and is using this defensive language about shocking us to justify his behaviour. He'd better learn very soon to bite his lip and get his head down or he'll be out the door in the new year. He's on a loser to nothing.

[hfc rd]

Since he scored the derby winner, he's just become so big-headed about himself. Remember that silly tweet he posted when we signed Paul Heffernan and now he's posted something even stupider that I'm sure Butcher ain't going to take very kindly too. Thinks he is too good for us. I would definitely be thinking about giving his place in the team to Jason Cummings.

[Del Boy]

What did he say about Heffernan?

[Onceinawhile]

He tweeted 'I'm done' then spent an hour saying it wasn't football related. Nothing massive imo.

[nonshinyfinish]

He tweeted 'I'm done' then spent an hour saying it wasn't football related. Nothing massive imo.

Seems like a great example of why footballers shouldn't be on Twitter. Back in the old black'n'white days of 2009, if a player took the hump with the manager then we'd never see the fallout in real time on the internet, and it would be that much easier for it to be forgotten about should said manager and player make up.

[Iggy Pope]

I did not think he looked too clever after making his first run and thought at the time he looked ill.
Not like a knock or a pull but when he attempted to move quickly he looked spent.

He didn't want consoled when he was pulled and maybe he was just mad at getting a chance and not being able to take it.

[Zorro]

Wasn't at the game today so can't comment on his performance but maybe we should wait and see what the story is? Or let it be dealt with behind closed doors? If he has spat the dummy it will be dealt with and hopefully won't happen again, if he hasn't and there is something else going on maybe it has affected him? I have no idea, just saying that we don't really know one way or the other.

[NAE NOOKIE]

For any player to be subbed after coming on as a sub must be very hard to take. From that point of view I can understand why he reacted so badly.

But come Sunday morning he has to sit down and have a good long think about the future. Unfortunately footballers have to make decisions which will affect the rest of thier lives at an age where they dont have the life experience required to help them make the right one.

He can either take to twitter and facebook and the pages of the Daily Record and moan about how hard done to he is etc etc.

Or he can say, bloody Norah I've been subbed for a lack of effort 10 minutes after coming on !!! I'd better start screwing the nut.

If its the former he's doomed. If its the latter he can still make it.

[GB6]

He got on the team bus as we got on ours (no more than 10 minutes after the whistle) Strange how he wasn't around the dressing room after the game.

[Jonnyboy]

Interesting that according to the BBC, Taiwo replaced both Handling AND Caldwell http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25064174

[Carheenlea]

We were down to 10 men, everyone bursting a gut and giving everything they had to try and see the game out. Caldwell contributed nothing to that and it was not lost by those sitting where I was, who vented their frustrations at his half-hearted runabout. His scuffle with Butcher as he departed down the tunnel will signal the end of his time here IMO.

[Diclonius]

Interesting that according to the BBC, Taiwo replaced both Handling AND Caldwell http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25064174

He's literally that good.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

If his tweet is meant to hint at issues between him and the manager then that may have worked in his favour had Fenlon still been in charge but right now everyone (?) is rightly in big Tel's corner and even if his gripes did have substance, I don't think folk would care.

[--------]

And to think that when I played football all we ever got was a slice of orange. :wink:


Ah, the old ones are the best, are they not?

Rodney Marsh to Alf Ramsey, circa 1971, I think? :devil:

[Slim Shady]

We were down to 10 men, everyone bursting a gut and giving everything they had to try and see the game out. Caldwell contributed nothing to that and it was not lost by those sitting where I was, who vented their frustrations at his half-hearted runabout. His scuffle with Butcher as he departed down the tunnel will signal the end of his time here IMO.

As much as I dont wish / hope its the end of Caldwell - I hope its a huge message from Tel/Malpas that they are not here to be ****ed with.

Shape up or ship out.

Hibs have the foundations, albeit not win the SPL win certainly be top 2/3 - time to waken the sleeping giant.

GGTTH

[rcarter1]

As much as I dont wish / hope its the end of Caldwell - I hope its a huge message from Tel/Malpas that they are not here to be ****ed with.

Shape up or ship out.

Hibs have the foundations, albeit not win the SPL win certainly be top 2/3 - time to waken the sleeping giant.

GGTTH

Agree. The managerial team has to have the will and ability to make the tough decisions. This kind of decision is all good for me. I remember O'Connors reaction to being subbed for Sproule vs The team previously known as Rangers. Players that cant adapt to a team ethic arent the answer. I still believe that Caldwell can develop to become a big player for us.

[matty_f]

Butcher certainly backed him in that interview.

[3pm]

Butcher certainly backed him in that interview.

He certainly did. Even suggested he worked hard.

[Andy74]

Wierd though that he was out on his feet after a few minutes of doing not much.

[hibsboy90]

I thought TB was being a bit sarcastic...

[oconnors_strip]

I think there is an off field, personal matter happening with Ross and sadly is effecting his game. Hopefully butcher can help him get his confidence and game back!

[Coco Bryce]

I think there is an off field, personal matter happening with Ross and sadly is effecting his game. Hopefully butcher can help him get his confidence and game back!

Do you know something is up for sure or are you guessing?

[oconnors_strip]

Do you know something is up for sure or are you guessing?

It's a guess. But from Ross's body language and lack of enthusiasm at games it looks like something else is on his mind

[Coco Bryce]

It's a guess. But from Ross's body language and lack of enthusiasm at games it looks like something else is on his mind

Ok mate. Thought you maybe knew him personally that's all

[Hibbyradge]

Butcher dealt with that badly.

[Saorsa]

It's a guess. But from Ross's body language and lack of enthusiasm at games it looks like something else is on his mindI hate tae be harsh but my mind is on Hibs and Hibs winning, if his mind isnae on that then IMO he shouldnae be playing until it is.

[ehf]

Butcher dealt with that badly.

What did he deal with badly? In what respects was his dealing with it "bad"?

[B.H.F.C]

Butcher dealt with that badly.

I'd say Caldwell dealt with things badly. On and off the pitch.

[Just_Jimmy]

It was excellent management from Butcher.

Every man and his dug saw them bicker. He points at Caldwell and basically says "you're for it".

Then bigs up the laddie and tells the media how important he is to the club.

Alex Ferguson would be pwoud of that :greengrin

[RIP]

I've seen Ross before come on and do a lot of running

But he looked ill or injured after his first run today

Very odd

Did anyone see the spat outside the ground with the group of Hibs supporters and Tam McCourt pulling Ross away?

[leggeto]

Thought it was a bit harsh to hook him seconds before the whistle,id be raging if it was me

[gorgie greens]

think he needs one of the older players to put an arm round his shoulder and tell him how it works,might just be the kick up the jacksi he needs,cant doubt his eye for a goal,reminds me of deeks,great finishes but not enough work ethic,
think TB is working wonders so far with his coaches and its a case of my way or shut the door on the way out,we have had too many players just going thru the motions,these days are gone:tbgwa:

[hfc rd]

I've seen Ross before come on and do a lot of running

But he looked ill or injured after his first run today

Very odd

Did anyone see the spat outside the ground with the group of Hibs supporters and Tam McCourt pulling Ross away?



What happened? Might explain the reason for the silly tweet that he posted.

[hibbysam]

I've seen Ross before come on and do a lot of running

But he looked ill or injured after his first run today

Very odd

Did anyone see the spat outside the ground with the group of Hibs supporters and Tam McCourt pulling Ross away?

I was one of the supporters and told him exactly what we expect!

Nothing special he was told, all we expect is 100% every week and he sat and watched the rest do that... And also his reaction to butcher shows his own ego is far too big already! Silly silly boy!

Just to add it kinda summed it up that Ross was being chased out by tam Mccourt obviously seeing to him which means something must have been said in the dressing room as well... Just think if he wasn't fit or ill you say to the manager who puts someone else on... His reaction to coming off showed he wasn't injured or ill he was just being a lazy barsteward and will learn the hard way... He needs to have one wee look at his best pal Danny handling for how to apply yourself both on and off the pitch!

[Northernhibee]

It doesn't matter what issues Ross may have right now - if there's something seriously wrong behind the scenes then sometimes that's only human.

To publicly disrespect the manager in such a fashion is unforgivable.

[Wotherspiniesta]

I was one of the supporters and told him exactly what we expect!

Nothing special he was told, all we expect is 100% every week and he sat and watched the rest do that... And also his reaction to butcher shows his own ego is far too big already! Silly silly boy!

Just to add it kinda summed it up that Ross was being chased out by tam Mccourt obviously seeing to him which means something must have been said in the dressing room as well... Just think if he wasn't fit or ill you say to the manager who puts someone else on... His reaction to coming off showed he wasn't injured or ill he was just being a lazy barsteward and will learn the hard way... He needs to have one wee look at his best pal Danny handling for how to apply yourself both on and off the pitch!

So, let me get this right.... You waited after the final whistle after a great result against a team we have never beaten to seek out a young man who played for ten minutes and give him abuse about his performance?

[hibbysam]

So, let me get this right.... You waited after the final whistle after a great result against a team we have never beaten to seek out a young man who played for ten minutes and give him abuse about his performance?

No... He was leaving as we were walking past the main entrance not even ten minutes after the whistle... I asked him why he wouldn't give 100% effort like the rest and that his attitude stinks...

[spike220]

Just saw the highlights Caldwell was a disgrace.

[judas]

No... He was leaving as we were walking past the main entrance not even ten minutes after the whistle... I asked him why he wouldn't give 100% effort like the rest and that his attitude stinks...

I say good for you. You are obviously a loyal paying supporter and deserve to express your feelings in an honest manner.

[Weststandwanab]

Butcher dealt with that badly. Do you have a massive hangover ?


It was excellent management from Butcher.

Every man and his dug saw them bicker. He points at Caldwell and basically says "you're for it".

Then bigs up the laddie and tells the media how important he is to the club.

Alex Ferguson would be pwoud of that :greengrin Excellent management in my opinion.


What happened? Might explain the reason for the silly tweet that he posted. Footballers = tweets = stupidity


Just saw the highlights Caldwell was a disgrace. Absolute disgrace

[Beefster]

I'm not convinced that Caldwell is good enough but folk need to cut him a bit of slack. He's a young man and seemingly reacts to criticism like lots of young men. Let Butcher deal with him.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I haven't seen the game but heard the Hibs commentary.

Sad state of affairs. Management issue. Whilst I can understand frustrations I do wonder what you expected from Ross, Sam? How would you react to a complete stranger coming up to you and saying your attitude stinks? I'm only surprised you didn't get both barrels back at you.

How is many full seasons has Ross under his belt? He's still learning his trade and mistakes will be made along the way. I've faith in TB and MM to handle this. They will also know the circumstances surrounding this better than folks In the stand - although Ross' personal life is his own business.

Youth is is our future and needs careful nurturing. Transitions to the first team with the amount of managerial changes has been a bumpy ride (putting it mildly although I think of all the things Pat was decent at that). We need to get it right. A bit of patience wouldn't go a miss it's what's needed with youth.

[Hibbyradge]

What did he deal with badly? In what respects was his dealing with it "bad"?

He shouldn't have pointed his finger publicly at Caldwell as he walked down the tunnel.

That's the kind of stunt John Hughes use to pull.

Caldwell was understandably embarrassed because he was being substituted after being brought on.

Maybe it was the correct substitution, but if the boy was in the huff, so be it.

Deal with it in private when the game's over instead of humiliating him further in front of the TV cameras.

As far as I know, there's no clause in a footballer's contract saying they have to shake their manager's hand.

[Wotherspiniesta]

No... He was leaving as we were walking past the main entrance not even ten minutes after the whistle... I asked him why he wouldn't give 100% effort like the rest and that his attitude stinks...

What was his answer?

[Ronniekirk]

He shouldn't have pointed his finger publicly at Caldwell as he walked down the tunnel.

That's the kind of stunt John Hughes use to pull.

Caldwell was understandably embarrassed because he was being substituted after being brought on.

Maybe it was the correct substitution, but if the boy was in the huff, so be it.

Deal with it in private when the game's over instead of humiliating him further in front of the TV cameras.

As far as I know, there's no clause in a footballer's contract saying they have to shake their manager's hand.
Mutch ado about nothing. storm in a tea cup He hasn't had a lot of game time and there must be a good reason for that .Big tell said after the game he liked Ross but his contract runs out next summer so if he isn't getting game time it's hard to see that being renewed and Ross will know that .i understand his frustration but only hard work and right attitude and performance on the field when he gets his chance will determine what happens next . When young Danny came off against st mirren he got a massive hug from tell that's what Ross should be using to motivate himself

[Purple & Green]

He shouldn't have pointed his finger publicly at Caldwell as he walked down the tunnel.

That's the kind of stunt John Hughes use to pull.

Caldwell was understandably embarrassed because he was being substituted after being brought on.

Maybe it was the correct substitution, but if the boy was in the huff, so be it.

Deal with it in private when the game's over instead of humiliating him further in front of the TV cameras.

As far as I know, there's no clause in a footballer's contract saying they have to shake their manager's hand.

Maybe the incident summed up the issue we've had in how our players respect our managers and what they think is an acceptable performance. Butcher is nothing like john Hughes, but in the great scheme of things this incident isn't a big deal and if Ross is the player a lot of people think he is, it will be forgotten about before too long.

[hibbysam]

What was his answer?

He couldn't answer... Another fan called him a joke, and he started arguing with him before sulking off... I'm not one for slating players but nobody disrespects a manager and a club the way he did yesterday! Spent a fortune yesterday to see players run and run and run even more then that lazy **** comes on and doesn't try a leg... I wouldn't imagine he would have got a very nice reception from the supporters buses that were still sitting waiting when he left... Very poor attitude and either he needs to sort it out or he'll be out the door as terry was not a happy man after the game!

[Beefster]

Butcher dealt with that badly.

You can't possibly state that definitively without knowing the background to the relationship IMHO. Sometimes, the only action left (other than effectively starting a capability process or getting rid of an employee) is to try and shock them into changing their attitude. For all we know, Butcher has spent the last three weeks speaking to Caldwell about his attitude/effort etc.


I was one of the supporters and told him exactly what we expect!

You harangued a 20 year old after a fine victory in our bogey competition. Awesome.

[Hibbyradge]

You can't possibly state that definitively without knowing the background to the relationship IMHO. Sometimes, the only action left (other than effectively starting a capability process or getting rid of an employee) is to try and shock them into changing their attitude. For all we know, Butcher has spent the last three weeks speaking to Caldwell about his attitude/effort etc.



If TB had made a calculated decision that pointing a finger angrily at Caldwell as he went down the tunnel was the best way to deal with a decision, then you may have a point, although it would have been bad decision.

However, TB didn't "decide" to do that. It was a knee jerk reaction and it served no purpose other than to demonstrate that Butcher to the watching public was angry.





You harangued a 20 year old after a fine victory in our bogey competition. Awesome.

Agreed.

I wonder if they felt justified in their actions having watched the manager doing similar.

[greenpaper55]

He couldn't answer... Another fan called him a joke, and he started arguing with him before sulking off... I'm not one for slating players but nobody disrespects a manager and a club the way he did yesterday! Spent a fortune yesterday to see players run and run and run even more then that lazy **** comes on and doesn't try a leg... I wouldn't imagine he would have got a very nice reception from the supporters buses that were still sitting waiting when he left... Very poor attitude and either he needs to sort it out or he'll be out the door as terry was not a happy man after the game!

Good point, we were down to ten men and for somebody to stroll about in plain out of order, you have to back the manager in situations like this.

[marinello59]

No... He was leaving as we were walking past the main entrance not even ten minutes after the whistle... I asked him why he wouldn't give 100% effort like the rest and that his attitude stinks...

I'm not so sure that was a good idea. He'd been put firmly in his place by our manager in a very public fashion and he would have been in a very emotional state at the point you saw him. You may have had a chance to vent your anger but how do you think having a go at him outside the ground helped the player?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

He couldn't answer... Another fan called him a joke, and he started arguing with him before sulking off... I'm not one for slating players but nobody disrespects a manager and a club the way he did yesterday! Spent a fortune yesterday to see players run and run and run even more then that lazy **** comes on and doesn't try a leg... I wouldn't imagine he would have got a very nice reception from the supporters buses that were still sitting waiting when he left... Very poor attitude and either he needs to sort it out or he'll be out the door as terry was not a happy man after the game!

Nothing like a bit of player baiting after an historic victory. And Tam got involved no wonder it would appear to suggest things were getting out of hand.

[steviehibsleith]

People questioning was he ill or fit perhaps dont realise how teams work. For a start he was fit or he wouldnt have been included in the match squad, secondly on the dat players are assessed and hard warm ups carried out so he was not physically ill. As a young striker he has seen Collins Hefferman and Vine all added to squad coupled with Handling now ahead of him and Jason Cummings on fire for Under 20s getting a place in the squad is hard.
Hopefully first training session its all behind him and he puts in 100 percent and fights for his place , this is what Butcher and Malpas require and im all for it, end of the day its about the team not individuals.

[Saorsa]

He shouldn't have pointed his finger publicly at Caldwell as he walked down the tunnel.

That's the kind of stunt John Hughes use to pull.

Caldwell was understandably embarrassed because he was being substituted after being brought on.

Maybe it was the correct substitution, but if the boy was in the huff, so be it.

Deal with it in private when the game's over instead of humiliating him further in front of the TV cameras.

As far as I know, there's no clause in a footballer's contract saying they have to shake their manager's hand.Disagree. He embarrassed himself by his effort or lack thereof on the park and was rightly hooked, he embarrassed himself further by stomping off in the huff like a petulant wee boy. I dinnae see fault with TB in any of that or what he did. Caldwell needs wind his neck in, put his heid down and get on with it, everybody else was giving it their all, if he disnae want tae buy in tae that then he can leave, he's nothing special. For far too long we've had too many players with billy big boots attitudes who seem tae think they can do what they please get away with only doing as much as they think they have tae and still be in the running for a place in the team ahead of others. Others have come in and are in front of him, if he wants tae be a first pick he needs tae knuckle down and fight for a place instead of taking the huff all the time. This insnae the first time, he's gone off on one, he also did it when Collins was signed. The people who deserve tae be in the team are the ones who work the hardest, if he's no down with that and thinks he's something special then :bye:

[Jonnyboy]

If TB had made a calculated decision that pointing a finger angrily at Caldwell as he went down the tunnel was the best way to deal with a decision, then you may have a point, although it would have been bad decision.

However, TB didn't "decide" to do that. It was a knee jerk reaction and it served no purpose other than to demonstrate that Butcher to the watching public was angry.



Agreed.

I wonder if they felt justified in their actions having watched the manager doing similar.

Maybe because he was angry and a large percentage of the watching public probably agreed with him?

[macca70]

There was 6 seconds of the game left, sub was made to disrupt the game and we couldn't take a defender or midfielder off.

Ross should have realised this and have been delighted that we're through to the next round.

Not a chance Butcher will put up with that kind of attitude.

[Hibbyradge]

Maybe because he was angry and a large percentage of the watching public probably agreed with him?

What did TB gain from his own particular act of petulance other than to further humiliate a player?

A player he later said was important to the club.

[Hibbyradge]

There was 6 seconds of the game left, sub was made to disrupt the game.

Ross should have realised this and have been delighted that we're through to the next round.

Not a chance Butcher will put up with that kind of attitude.

And neither he should.

But it's poor management when you wash your dirty laundry in public.

[Jonnyboy]

What did TB gain from his own particular act of petulance other than to further humiliate a player?

A player he later said was important to the club.

No idea Dave, you'd have to ask him. The finger pointing was spur of the moment, a reaction to the petulance shown by the player. No big deal IMO

[EVENTUALLY]

People questioning was he ill or fit perhaps dont realise how teams work. For a start he was fit or he wouldnt have been included in the match squad, secondly on the dat players are assessed and hard warm ups carried out so he was not physically ill. As a young striker he has seen Collins Hefferman and Vine all added to squad coupled with Handling now ahead of him and Jason Cummings on fire for Under 20s getting a place in the squad is hard.
Hopefully first training session its all behind him and he puts in 100 percent and fights for his place , this is what Butcher and Malpas require and im all for it, end of the day its about the team not individuals.

I've seen Caldwell start and appear as a Sub and I have never ever had the impression that he is a "worker". There is no doubt he can score all sorts of goals but a high energy performance is not part of his make up. Too many times when he has been introduced to a losing Hibs with 10-15 mins to go he has not been noticed before the final whistle. Contrast Cummings introduction against Caley when he ran about daft at high speed unable to stop when challenging opponents and conceeded a few fouls. Ross's brief yesterday was to work his socks off for the last period of the game when we were a man down and protecting a precious lead. He was without doubt the wrong man for the task and prehaps Terry Butcher has not yet quite worked out the strengths and weaknesses of his squad. Ross's mistake was to have not realised the importance of his task as he is as capable as anyone in the squad of running,pressing and challenging without ever touching the ball. He made a mistake but so did Terry Butcher, luckily it worked out fine.

[Hibbyradge]

No idea Dave, you'd have to ask him. The finger pointing was spur of the moment, a reaction to the petulance shown by the player. No big deal IMO

I agree it's not that important, but it could have been dealt with better, imo.

I'll stf up about it now. :greengrin

[Just_Jimmy]

And neither he should.

But it's poor management when you wash your dirty laundry in public.

Rubbish. It was a heat of the moment thing. Caldwell is a young lad who was pissed off. We've all done it. Butcher's reaction was also heat of the moment. His reaction at FT showed what yesterday meant to him.

After the game he did the right thing. He rubbished claims it was more serious and he backed Caldwell publicly. Out of this incident he's had an opportunity to show who is boss and at the same time prove to his players that whatever happens he has their back.

If he'd slated Caldwell in the interview that would have been airing it in public. The nature of the industry means that there is far more opportunity for the public to see incidents. Butcher dealt with it well. Caldwell has history of spittin the dummy as others have said.

Edit - just seen your reply to Johnnyboy so feel free to ignore this post.

[nic81]

What i find interesting about this whole thread is there are some defending Caldwell's actions! No wonder we have been in the state we have been in for the past few years with some trying to justify the behaviour, his attitude is not good enough to wear our jersey and i for one am glad that Butcher made it very clear that he was for a bollocking, why should we settle for second rate second best could give a toss attitude, if the fans are willing to accept it no wonder there's such a bad attitude from certain players, get them out the door and if fans are happy with that maybe hibs are not the team for you!

[DC_Hibs]

But it's poor management when you wash your dirty laundry in public.


Things are different at Hibs now. We've been too soft for too long and Butcher will know that from playing against us often. If one of our players feelings are hurt in order to get us through to the next round of the cup then so be it. If he needs a timely reminder that its a team game in front of two thousand folk and a few hundred thousand on TV then so be it.

Job done Butcher.

Caldwell will either learn from it and put in the hard work like others are doing or end up at Stirling Albion or suchlike as did a whole host of other promising youths.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Things are different at Hibs now. We've been too soft for too long and Butcher will know that from playing against us often. If one of our players feelings are hurt in order to get us through to the next round of the cup then so be it. If he needs a timely reminder that its a team game in front of two thousand folk and a few hundred thousand on TV then so be it.

Job done Butcher.

Caldwell will either learn from it and put in the hard work like others are doing or end up at Stirling Albion or suchlike as did a whole host of other promising youths.

:agree:

Learn to swin or sink like a stone, the time's they are a-changin'

[Hibbyradge]

Butcher's reaction was also heat of the moment.

Indeed, it was heat of the moment.

It was a knee-jerk reaction rather than a calculated response. Almost invariable, they're not advised.

If Butcher could rewind the clock, undoubtedly he'd decide do something different.

No biggie, though, as I said. It was just an observation.

[Jones28]

I think butchers reaction was spot on, especially considering it was in the dying seconds of the game, with a slender lead and down to 10 men.

It was in the heat of the moment but bear in mind that Caldwell embarrassed butcher too, by refusing to shake his hand and being very petulant.

Butcher will have gone through him for that ad could have humiliated him in the media post match but he didn't. He left it at that and will no doubt never mention it again.

[AndyM_1875]

Either he a philosopher or a very naughty boy. Reads like toys oot the pram

A silly wee laddie B. Terry had a big call to make and needed Collins presence on there.

If RC wants to make something of this against the manager he'll find himself at Airdrie or Albion Rovers etc in January.

[Keith_M]

I think a lot of people are reading too much into this. Players and Managers have spur of the moment spats all the time.

Caldwell wasn't pleased at being subbed, reacted badly and TB gave an angry response to the reaction. IMHO, it's no big deal and will be dealt with inside the club.

Supporters haranguing the player afterwards is just plain strupid.

[Hibbyradge]

I think butchers reaction was spot on, especially considering it was in the dying seconds of the game, with a slender lead and down to 10 men.

It was in the heat of the moment but bear in mind that Caldwell embarrassed butcher too, by refusing to shake his hand and being very petulant.

Butcher will have gone through him for that ad could have humiliated him in the media post match but he didn't. He left it at that and will no doubt never mention it again.

Spot on? Really?

Don't you agree there could have been other, better, ways to have dealt with the situation?

Or would pointing aggressively at a player in front of the TV cameras be the recommended course of action in your coaching manual?

[Hibbyradge]

What i find interesting about this whole thread is there are some defending Caldwell's actions!

Are there? Where? :confused:

[Squealing pig]

Butcher was right to take him off if he wasnt pullin his weight. Would also say caldwell was within his rights to b peed of , any sub that got subbed would be

[Thecat23]

Spot on? Really?

Don't you agree there could have been other, better, ways to have dealt with the situation?

Or would pointing aggressively at a player in front of the TV cameras be the recommended course of action in your coaching manual?

I wouldn't say it was aggressively, the way he was pointing. More I'll deal with you shortly. Butcher done what he thought was best for the team. I'd bet all my wages if he could rewind it back he'd do it again. He was right in my book. If a player looks tired/not doing enough when we are already down to ten then hook him. Couldn't care if he was a sub to start with.

[Weststandwanab]

What i find interesting about this whole thread is there are some defending Caldwell's actions! No wonder we have been in the state we have been in for the past few years with some trying to justify the behaviour, his attitude is not good enough to wear our jersey and i for one am glad that Butcher made it very clear that he was for a bollocking, why should we settle for second rate second best could give a toss attitude, if the fans are willing to accept it no wonder there's such a bad attitude from certain players, get them out the door and if fans are happy with that maybe hibs are not the team for you! Precisely correct.


Spot on? Really?

Don't you agree there could have been other, better, ways to have dealt with the situation?

Or would pointing aggressively at a player in front of the TV cameras be the recommended course of action in your coaching manual? I would say absolutely spot on.

[Hibbyradge]

Butcher was right to take him off if he wasnt pullin his weight. Would also say caldwell was within his rights to b peed of , any sub that got subbed would be

I agree.

[Jones28]

Spot on? Really?

Don't you agree there could have been other, better, ways to have dealt with the situation?

Or would pointing aggressively at a player in front of the TV cameras be the recommended course of action in your coaching manual?

Yeah. Spot on is how I'd describe it.

How does anyone know this isnt butchers last resort? It is widely reported on here that Caldwell has a billy big-baws attitude.

Maybe a player needs a reaction like that to put him in his place. No player is bigger than the manger, and if a player doesn't like a decision they talk about it behind closed doors, not by being petulant towards the manager in front of the tv cameras.

I think you'll find that is what EVERY coaching manual says.

Also, defining the pointing as aggressive is overstating it.

[Hibercelona]

Regardless of whether a player has issues off the pitch or not. When you're on that pitch, all that matters is what you do on that pitch, you let go of everything else going on in your life and you play the game to the best of your ability.

Caldwell failed to do that yesterday and was forced to face up to the consequence.

He may only be 20, but thats a mans age. He either shows that he is, or he leaves.

[Unseen work]

I'm a bit lost in all of this can someone tell me exactly what happened?
Caldwell came on for 10 mins never tried, got subbed with 6 seconds left then what?

was his work rate really that bad?
to be honest I would be raging aswell if I got subbed after 10 minutes, it would be embarrassing, and if it was just to take up time as there was 6 seconds left why not sub someone else?

Obviously I never seen it so can't comment but to be subbed after 10 minutes with lack of effort sounds a bit bizarre when there's only seconds left?

[blackpoolhibs]

Much ado about nothing.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm a bit lost in all of this can someone tell me exactly what happened?
Caldwell came on for 10 mins never tried, got subbed with 6 seconds left then what?

was his work rate really that bad?
to be honest I would be raging aswell if I got subbed after 10 minutes, it would be embarrassing, and if it was just to take up time as there was 6 seconds left why not sub someone else?

Obviously I never seen it so can't comment but to be subbed after 10 minutes with lack of effort sounds a bit bizarre when there's only seconds left?

I've no idea why the sub was made.

However Caldwells attitude and effort was an absolute disgrace. We were down to 10 men and every player was digging in except him. Butcher and Malpas were just about pulling their hair out and he got 2 or 3 real bollockings from them before the sub was made. At least 5 times he should have chased the ball down, he would never have won it it was just about applying pressure, but he didn't. It was in total contrast to every other player who played yesterday, each and every one of them gave everything they had and then some.

If he's got issues that are having an impact on his performances then he has to be big enough to say to the manager he isn't in the right frame of mind. Putting in performances like yesterday and posting rubbish on Twitter isn't the way to go about things.

[Hibercelona]

I'm a bit lost in all of this can someone tell me exactly what happened?
Caldwell came on for 10 mins never tried, got subbed with 6 seconds left then what?

was his work rate really that bad?
to be honest I would be raging aswell if I got subbed after 10 minutes, it would be embarrassing, and if it was just to take up time as there was 6 seconds left why not sub someone else?

Obviously I never seen it so can't comment but to be subbed after 10 minutes with lack of effort sounds a bit bizarre when there's only seconds left?

Butcher was making the point to Caldwell that if he isn't going to bother putting a shift in, he won't allow him to play for the strip.

It didn't matter that there was only a few seconds left. It was about getting the message across.

Caldwell caused his own embarrassment in the end.

[Jim44]

There are a few references to Caldwell being 'tired'......... really? After ten minutes on as a sub ?

[Hibbyradge]

I'm a bit lost in all of this can someone tell me exactly what happened?
Caldwell came on for 10 mins never tried, got subbed with 6 seconds left then what?

was his work rate really that bad?
to be honest I would be raging aswell if I got subbed after 10 minutes, it would be embarrassing, and if it was just to take up time as there was 6 seconds left why not sub someone else?

Obviously I never seen it so can't comment but to be subbed after 10 minutes with lack of effort sounds a bit bizarre when there's only seconds left?

He refused to shake Butcher's hand as he came off the pitch.

Butcher then became visibly angry and pointed his fingers down the tunnel after him in a "You're getting it" manner in front of the TV cameras.

I didn't think TB's behaviour looked very professional, but others seem to approve of it.

[SteveHFC]

There are a few references to Caldwell being 'tired'......... really? After ten minutes on as a sub ?

I get tired after 10seconds never mind 10mins :greengrin

[Hibercelona]

He refused to shake Butcher's hand as he came off the pitch.

Butcher then became visibly angry and pointed his fingers down the tunnel after him in a "You're getting it" manner in front of the TV cameras.

I didn't think TB's behaviour looked very professional, but others seem to approve of it.

We won yesterday. Thats professional enough for me and many others.

[Hibbyradge]

We won yesterday. Thats professional enough for me and many others.

Another straw man argument, but hey ho.

We won against Partick Thistle, by the way.

[h1bs4life]

I'm a bit lost in all of this can someone tell me exactly what happened?
Caldwell came on for 10 mins never tried, got subbed with 6 seconds left then what?

was his work rate really that bad?
to be honest I would be raging aswell if I got subbed after 10 minutes, it would be embarrassing, and if it was just to take up time as there was 6 seconds left why not sub someone else?

Obviously I never seen it so can't comment but to be subbed after 10 minutes with lack of effort sounds a bit bizarre when there's only seconds left?

Work rate was terrible.Never tried a leg , also noticed by several around me.Actually thought he had picked up an injury as soon as he came on.Total lack of respect from him to team mates who had all worked hard , to the management team as well as to the fans who gave the team brilliant support from start to finish.Butcher got it spot on.

[Hibercelona]

Another straw man argument, but hey ho.

We won against Partick Thistle, by the way.

Whats your point? :confused:

The game yesterday was completely different to the PT game under Fenlon. We actually looked good for the win for a change, because every player (bar one) gave it everything they had and more.

The player who didn't give it everything ultimately caused their own embarrassment from failing to do so.

If Butcher gets us winning games consistantly, then I couldn't care less how Butcher treats the odd few that don't want to get their boots dirty.

[Mac]

He refused to shake Butcher's hand as he came off the pitch.

Butcher then became visibly angry and pointed his fingers down the tunnel after him in a "You're getting it" manner in front of the TV cameras.

I didn't think TB's behaviour looked very professional, but others seem to approve of it.

From previous interviews and constant reference to
Every player having to show 100% effort and working their socks off or they simply won't be here, on the training ground this message is constant, Caldwell clearly didn't make that effort on the pitch and as the manager he has to show he's the boss, if he lets it go then he loses credibility, he made his point and there won't be one player in any doubts exactly what is expected from them and if there was any doubt he was true to his word.

I think he was brilliant and showed his true worth as a strong manager who will/is rejuvenating the club, you can't possibly let one player get away with not caring or doing as he is told.

[Speedway]

Spot on? Really?

Don't you agree there could have been other, better, ways to have dealt with the situation?

Or would pointing aggressively at a player in front of the TV cameras be the recommended course of action in your coaching manual?

No. In my coaching manual I would run after the player wriggling away, bear hug him until I heard a rib crack and then pull him by the hair along the ground through to the away end before throwing him into the fans and letting martial justice take its own majestic and imperial course.

[Hibbyradge]

No. In my coaching manual I would run after the player wriggling away, bear hug him until I heard a rib crack and then pull him by the hair along the ground through to the away end before throwing him into the fans and letting martial justice take its own majestic and imperial course.

Yeah, obviously.

I meant apart from that. :rolleyes:

[Ronniekirk]

:top marks
Much ado about nothing.

[aunty joyce]

[QUOTE=Hibbyradge;
I didn't think TB's behaviour looked very professional, but others seem to approve of it.[/QUOTE]

Not only did Caldwell refused to shake Tb's hand, he also refused to listen to what the Manager was trying to say to him when he came off the pitch, pulling away aggressively . . . it looked like Terry Butcher was trying to talk to Caldwell (perhaps to explain his reasons for his substitution - who knows) but the player was having none of it which is a poor show IMO.

Totally unprofessional attitude and I can understand why TB lost his cool.

[J-C]

Just seen his reaction to coming off, he'll probably no play again, be away January with an attitude like that, just look at Handling working hard and getting the start.

[hibby rae]

Just seen his reaction to coming off, he'll probably no play again, be away January with an attitude like that, just look at Handling working hard and getting the start.

I believe he's currently handcuffed to a radiator in Tel's cellar.

[J-C]

I believe he's currently handcuffed to a radiator in Tel's cellar.

:greengrin:greengrin

TBH though what a silly laddie, he'll end up the way of many other who've not got it in them to go to the next level.

Handling though looks like the real deal and shows a lot of class, could be a big player for us in the next few years if he progresses they way he has been.

[jakeshibs]

Not only did Caldwell refused to shake Tb's hand, he also refused to listen to what the Manager was trying to say to him when he came off the pitch, pulling away aggressively . . . it looked like Terry Butcher was trying to talk to Caldwell (perhaps to explain his reasons for his substitution - who knows) but the player was having none of it which is a poor show IMO.

Totally unprofessional attitude and I can understand why TB lost his cool.

I agree and well done TB.

[Brightside]

He refused to shake Butcher's hand as he came off the pitch.

Butcher then became visibly angry and pointed his fingers down the tunnel after him in a "You're getting it" manner in front of the TV cameras.

I didn't think TB's behaviour looked very professional, but others seem to approve of it.

Maybe a few more hours playing pool or maybe a ps4 competition would be better for him. :greengrin

[offshorehibby]

I can't comment on Caldwell commitment during the game but i have watched the substitution a couple of times. RC had to be hurting at that. TB went to talk to the laddie and RC shrugged him off that's what TB is mad at and i understand his anger.

What i do find disturbing is that 20 or so Hibbys find it ok to gang up on a young laddie when he's obviously at a low ebb and hurting.

[chrisski33]

He refused to shake Butcher's hand as he came off the pitch.

Butcher then became visibly angry and pointed his fingers down the tunnel after him in a "You're getting it" manner in front of the TV cameras.

I didn't think TB's behaviour looked very professional, but others seem to approve of it.

Nowt wrong or unproffessional about butchers reaction id be questioning caldwells though! Hooe caldwells gone in january dont need that kinda attitude at hibs.

[lucky]

I can't comment on Caldwell commitment during the game but i have watched the substitution a couple of times. RC had to be hurting at that. TB went to talk to the laddie and RC shrugged him off that's what TB is mad at and i understand his anger.

What i do find disturbing is that 20 or so Hibbys find it ok to gang up on a young laddie when he's obviously at a low ebb and hurting.

No one is ganging up on him. FFS this is a fans message board. We are only discussing a incident between our manager and a player

[J-C]

I can't comment on Caldwell commitment during the game but i have watched the substitution a couple of times. RC had to be hurting at that. TB went to talk to the laddie and RC shrugged him off that's what TB is mad at and i understand his anger.

What i do find disturbing is that 20 or so Hibbys find it ok to gang up on a young laddie when he's obviously at a low ebb and hurting.

Erm he's a footballer and Butcher's the manager, you do as yer told or be gone, no ones ganging up just saying how unprofessional it is from him

[Jim44]

No. In my coaching manual I would run after the player wriggling away, bear hug him until I heard a rib crack and then pull him by the hair along the ground through to the away end before throwing him into the fans and letting martial justice take its own majestic and imperial course.

Och, see you liberals. A good dose of National Service would toughen you up.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Take a player with potential, add one or two iconic moments early on in their career and use them as a stick to beat them with...

Is this in the Fergie blueprint for developing players?

[Treadstone]

Take a player with potential, add one or two iconic moments early on in their career and use them as a stick to beat them with...

Is this in the Fergie blueprint for developing players?

Usually get your references Viva, but 'iconic' :confused:

[Diclonius]

Usually get your references Viva, but 'iconic' :confused:

The winner against Hearts?

[Treadstone]

The winner against Hearts?

Probably, but i'm filing that with Tony Watt and Federico Macheda.

[basehibby]

I can't comment on Caldwell commitment during the game but i have watched the substitution a couple of times. RC had to be hurting at that. TB went to talk to the laddie and RC shrugged him off that's what TB is mad at and i understand his anger.

What i do find disturbing is that 20 or so Hibbys find it ok to gang up on a young laddie when he's obviously at a low ebb and hurting.

:agree: TB's body language seemed more conciliatory when meeting him at the sidelines than anything else - until Caldwell deliberately ignored him at which Butcher made physical efforts to be acknowledged and only looked anything like angry when those failed. Caldwell's pride was obviously hurt as the sub being subbed, but, defending a 1-0 lead with 10 men I can see the sense in subbing a forward if it's just to disrupt the flow of the game - particularly if he's not contributing much in the way of workrate.
Caldwell needs to cool his jets and take note of the lesson learned - fans in search of a scapegoat need to do the same and allow him a wee bit space for the lesson to sink in.

[weonlywon6-2]

I can't comment on Caldwell commitment during the game but i have watched the substitution a couple of times. RC had to be hurting at that. TB went to talk to the laddie and RC shrugged him off that's what TB is mad at and i understand his anger.

What i do find disturbing is that 20 or so Hibbys find it ok to gang up on a young laddie when he's obviously at a low ebb and hurting.


Evening Ross

[Liams]

Really sad/annoyed at RC, i honestly thought him and danny would be the next gaz and deeks... Hopefullly he will get a wake up call and kick on from here

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Usually get your references Viva, but 'iconic' :confused:

You're doing well to get my refs, I can be a bit tangential ;) I blame beer and Vic Reeves for leading me astray...

[patch1875]

From previous interviews and constant reference to
Every player having to show 100% effort and working their socks off or they simply won't be here, on the training ground this message is constant, Caldwell clearly didn't make that effort on the pitch and as the manager he has to show he's the boss, if he lets it go then he loses credibility, he made his point and there won't be one player in any doubts exactly what is expected from them and if there was any doubt he was true to his word.

I think he was brilliant and showed his true worth as a strong manager who will/is rejuvenating the club, you can't possibly let one player get away with not caring or doing as he is told.


Safely say that we won't see Riordan back then.

[offshorehibby]

I was one of the supporters and told him exactly what we expect!

Nothing special he was told, all we expect is 100% every week and he sat and watched the rest do that... And also his reaction to butcher shows his own ego is far too big already! Silly silly boy!


He couldn't answer... Another fan called him a joke, and he started arguing with him before sulking off... I'm not one for slating players but nobody disrespects a manager and a club the way he did yesterday! Spent a fortune yesterday to see players run and run and run even


No one is ganging up on him. FFS this is a fans message board. We are only discussing a incident between our manager and a player

It seems by an earlier post that several people started giving the laddie a right hard time when he was on his own. The boy was probably near to tiers after getting subbed and probably didn't need a tongue lashing by bunch of supporters at that time, probably done his confidence the world of good.


Erm he's a footballer and Butcher's the manager, you do as yer told or be gone, no ones ganging up just saying how unprofessional it is from him

I agree that the the manager is the boss and he acted like a daft we laddie


TB's body language seemed more conciliatory when meeting him at the sidelines than anything else - until Caldwell deliberately ignored him at which Butcher made physical efforts to be acknowledged and only looked anything like angry when those failed. Caldwell's pride was obviously hurt as the sub being subbed, but.

I agree with what your saying here.

[J-C]

It seems by an earlier post that several people started giving the laddie a right hard time when he was on his own. The boy was probably near to tiers after getting subbed and probably didn't need a tongue lashing by bunch of supporters at that time, probably done his confidence the world of good.



I agree that the the manager is the boss and he acted like a daft we laddie



I agree with what your saying here.

You never explained that bit

[The Green Goblin]

Butcher was spot on for me - there`s only one chief and that`s TB. He seems to know exactly what he`s about. Glad to see a Hibs manager backing up his words with actions when players don`t come up to scratch.

However, I really don`t think fans giving RC a hard time face to face after the game helps anyone. I`m pretty sure Butcher can handle that side of things.

This will either (hopefully) be a turning point for RC and he`ll learn from it and go on to develop the right attitude and be a really good player or he`ll stick to Twitter, thinking he knows better, take the huff and end up punted by next season.

Very clear that it`s TB/MM`s way or the highway. Finally, a bit of balls and steel about the guys running the show and they`re prepared to do whatever they have to. Much needed. Good to see.

[Jonnyboy]

He refused to shake Butcher's hand as he came off the pitch.

Butcher then became visibly angry and pointed his fingers down the tunnel after him in a "You're getting it" manner in front of the TV cameras.

I didn't think TB's behaviour looked very professional, but others seem to approve of it.

There's a difference between approving it and understanding it though :wink:

Anyhoo, I thought you'd said you were gonna stfu about it :greengrin

[sleeping giant]

I feel this incident will galvanise their relationship and RC will start to run through walls for him.
I have complete faith that TB will turn this incident into a positive.

[dp00]

Anyone know what his twitter thing is about

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

[cmcd]

The winner against Hearts?
Do you think one winner V Hearts makes you a great footballer ?

[Jonnyboy]

Do you think one winner V Hearts makes you a great footballer ?

Of course. I mean look at Brian Kerr ..............

[ancient hibee]

Of course. I mean look at Brian Kerr ..............



I would but he's always unseen.

[Jonnyboy]

I would but he's always unseen.

:greengrin

[Unseen work]

Having seen the highlights I don't think there's a great deal in it at all and seems to of been blown out of proportion. IMO if it was due to lack of effort butcher wouldn't of went over and made a effort to speak and explain to him, he would of sat where he was. I'm sure it will all be forgotten about after one talk about it which was probably after the game. Butchers no daft though he will know caldwell would of just been frustrated, as every single player would be in that situation.
Again though I never seen the 10 mins he was on but I can't see him doing that little in that 10 mins to merit the abuse he is getting on this?!

[chrisski33]

Having seen the highlights I don't think there's a great deal in it at all and seems to of been blown out of proportion. IMO if it was due to lack of effort butcher wouldn't of went over and made a effort to speak and explain to him, he would of sat where he was. I'm sure it will all be forgotten about after one talk about it which was probably after the game. Butchers no daft though he will know caldwell would of just been frustrated, as every single player would be in that situation.
Again though I never seen the 10 mins he was on but I can't see him doing that little in that 10 mins to merit the abuse he is getting on this?!

If you had seen the 10mins he was on you wud have seen he had made little effort. I hope caldwell is gone by january.

[wee hay]

Ii just think he was offering nothing he got hooked he was not trying a leg! Was not interested, he will get told he has a last chance and that should bring the best out of him. Butcher played a blinder and I would have done the same but personally I don't think he's good enough anyway!

[matty_f]

You're doing well to get my refs, I can be a bit tangential ;) I blame beer and Vic Reeves for leading me astray...

You wouldn't let it lie.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

You wouldn't let it lie.

Was most disappointed Palsson didn't hang around enough for the "what's on the end of the stick Vic?!" chant To catch on...

It's about this time in the morning I like to put a dolphin under a packet of onions :)

[Paperboy]

I wonder if Caldwell is one of the players who went in a huff when Butcher told them to come in during the international break because Fenlon used to give them the time off?

[StevieC]

I initially thought that RC might have been injured. There was a ball played down the wing, towards the corner flag, that RC was favourite to get to but he slowed down and the County defender got there before him. If he wasn't injured then I (in TB's boots) would have been fuming about not chasing the ball down in the last few minutes of a slender 1-0 lead.

[Hiber-nation]

Was most disappointed Palsson didn't hang around enough for the "what's on the end of the stick Vic?!" chant To catch on...

It's about this time in the morning I like to put a dolphin under a packet of onions :)

True and I'm sure the wheel of justice will be spinning for our Ross very shortly :wink:

[JimBHibees]

I initially thought that RC might have been injured. There was a ball played down the wing, towards the corner flag, that RC was favourite to get to but he slowed down and the County defender got there before him. If he wasn't injured then I (in TB's boots) would have been fuming about not chasing the ball down in the last few minutes of a slender 1-0 lead.

Yep maybe a wee muscle pull that restricted his effort or just feeling drained due to some illness. Just guessing as wasnt there however sure this will blow over and he will know the levels of effort demanded.

[The_Sauz]

I wonder if Caldwell is one of the players who went in a huff when Butcher told them to come in during the international break because Fenlon used to give them the time off?

TB said in his interview, that he would honour the agreement between PF and the players about time off during the International break :agree:
If some players went in, then it was the players choice and not TB or MM.

[TheFamous1875]

Seen on Facebook apparently Butcher's made a statement re Caldwell about his behaviour not being tolerated and that he was disciplined today. Anyone know more of this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Onion]

Butcher was spot on for me - there`s only one chief and that`s TB. He seems to know exactly what he`s about. Glad to see a Hibs manager backing up his words with actions when players don`t come up to scratch.

However, I really don`t think fans giving RC a hard time face to face after the game helps anyone. I`m pretty sure Butcher can handle that side of things.

This will either (hopefully) be a turning point for RC and he`ll learn from it and go on to develop the right attitude and be a really good player or he`ll stick to Twitter, thinking he knows better, take the huff and end up punted by next season.

Very clear that it`s TB/MM`s way or the highway. Finally, a bit of balls and steel about the guys running the show and they`re prepared to do whatever they have to. Much needed. Good to see.

Uncle Rod's door is always open to any poor wee lambs who've had their feelings hurt.

Ross needs to man up, get over it, get on with it. Hopefully this is a signal to any remaining slackers at ER that the Playstation days are over and they actually have to start working for a living.

[Gus Fring]

Seen on Facebook apparently Butcher's made a statement re Caldwell about his behaviour not being tolerated and that he was disciplined today. Anyone know more of this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Its from the Evening News

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/tel-will-take-action-after-ross-caldwell-spat-1-3216913

[Dashing Bob S]

Uncle Rod's door is always open to any poor wee lambs who've had their feelings hurt.

Ross needs to man up, get over it, get on with it. Hopefully this is a signal to any remaining slackers at ER that the Playstation days are over and they actually have to start working for a living.

Now there's a great title for John Campbell, when he covers the Collins-Hughes-Calderwood-Fenlon era.

[Bostonhibby]

Now there's a great title for John Campbell, when he covers the Collins-Hughes-Calderwood-Fenlon era.

I was thinking he could call that the "lets go and mump to Rod, go to the pub wi our mate yogi, have a day oot on our own as Coco isn't here again, ignore Pat cause he's a nice man era" :confused:

[ancient hibee]

Interesting that Mickey Weir says in his column that the players have ruled the roost too long.

[leggeto]

He will get sent out on loan in Jan I think

[Jonnyboy]

Now there's a great title for John Campbell, when he covers the Collins-Hughes-Calderwood-Fenlon era.

Play Stationary days more like :greengrin

[FitbaFolkKen]

I feel this incident will galvanise their relationship and RC will start to run through walls for him.
I have complete faith that TB will turn this incident into a positive.

Totally agree, a lot of my best employees needed "managing" at certain points. If Ross has any sense he'll knuckle down and prove TB right that he is an important player for the club.

[poolman]

He will get sent out on loan in Jan I think

Might be best for him

[londonhibby]

Spot on? Really?

Don't you agree there could have been other, better, ways to have dealt with the situation?

Or would pointing aggressively at a player in front of the TV cameras be the recommended course of action in your coaching manual?

Which coaching manual do you use, as a matter of interest. Have you ever coached? :blah:

TB, as he has proved on numerous occasions, is an expert . . .

[bad_news_boab]

Ross, Ive got some bad news for you. Your relationship with the fans wont be the same again. Good luck at Cowdenbeath.

[gorgie greens]

Ross, Ive got some bad news for you. Your relationship with the fans wont be the same again. Good luck at Cowdenbeath.

the average Hibs fan would run thru walls to wear that jersey just once and you have some bigiam who was blessed with the talent does not apply himself or is he living off that goal against the yams,shape up or ship out time you deccide Ross

[Viva_Palmeiras]

the average Hibs fan would run thru walls to wear that jersey just once and you have some bigiam who was blessed with the talent does not apply himself or is he living off that goal against the yams,shape up or ship out time you deccide Ross

... And the average Hibs fan would make do with "living off" last-gasp winning goal against the yams at Tynie, a hat-trick against Rangers at Ibrox, or a man of the match award in a Cup final demolition.

What is it they say about youth - you don't get consistency?