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WhileTheChief..
24-11-2013, 09:05 PM
From today's Scotland on Sunday, not seen it posted...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/aidan-smith-riordan-and-o-connor-s-roles-at-hibs-1-3200245 (http://www.scotsman.com/news/aidan-smith-riordan-and-o-connor-s-roles-at-hibs-1-3200245)

Fergus52
24-11-2013, 09:13 PM
The wee dig at Vine at the end is a bit silly IMO

Tricla
24-11-2013, 09:17 PM
That's an awful piece.

3pm
24-11-2013, 09:19 PM
I'd take him more seriously if he hadn't supported the filth for a year for the sake of a few quid.

Jonnyboy
24-11-2013, 09:20 PM
That's an awful piece.

I didn't think it was that bad ....... or that good to be honest.

Vine comment was wholly unnecessary too

H18sry
24-11-2013, 09:22 PM
The wee dig at Vine at the end is a bit silly IMO

Maybe, but it's true :agree:

One Day
24-11-2013, 09:23 PM
A good read but nothing being said that hasn't already been discussed on here

chorley_fm
24-11-2013, 09:28 PM
That's an awful piece.

Awful, no... pointless yes unfortunately it hammers home some truths about two wasted talents which we and everyone else with an interest in Scottish football know all about


The wee dig at Vine at the end is a bit silly IMO

We are persevering with Vine - he'll be one of the first to get punted.

hibs0666
24-11-2013, 09:31 PM
I'd take him more seriously if he hadn't supported the filth for a year for the sake of a few quid.

Amen to that.

SMAXXA
24-11-2013, 09:32 PM
No sure about anyone else but personally I'm sick of hearing and reading about these 2. They are grown men who have ****d up their football careers as it stands, tuff. They were legends in a lot of people's eyes and I appreciate what they did but its done.....gone...they won't be back. When will the press and some fans just stop and let it go.

Holmesdale Hibs
24-11-2013, 09:38 PM
I'd take him more seriously if he hadn't supported the filth for a year for the sake of a few quid.

I thought Heartfelt was quite funny and certainly don't hold it against him. This piece was ok, nothing special and be written many times before. The dig at Vine was cheap and unnecessary.

Kaiserclem
24-11-2013, 09:41 PM
Two young me that we're badly advised, got too big headed and were easily led astray.

Would we we all love to see their heads right and fully fit doing a job for hibs? be surprised if many wouldn't tbh. Do they have the maturity, level headedness, desire? I know one thing, as much as I am not a O'Connor or Riordan fan (not for football but lifestyles), I would take any one of them hanging in and around the box for us just now. Saying that, would take anyone!

monktonharp
24-11-2013, 11:47 PM
From today's Scotland on Sunday, not seen it posted...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/aidan-smith-riordan-and-o-connor-s-roles-at-hibs-1-3200245 (http://www.scotsman.com/news/aidan-smith-riordan-and-o-connor-s-roles-at-hibs-1-3200245)

when I saw the name on the heading, initially my thoughts were, who gives a ... what he says. On reading, I think, fair play . a lot of it is true. most Hibs fans will regret the early demise of these 2 guys, who were revered at times with Hibs fans. I'd still like to see a cameo role for Deeks btw

shagpile
25-11-2013, 07:42 AM
when I saw the name on the heading, initially my thoughts were, who gives a ... what he says. On reading, I think, fair play . a lot of it is true. most Hibs fans will regret the early demise of these 2 guys, who were revered at times with Hibs fans. I'd still like to see a cameo role for Deeks btw

I'm sure there must be a walk on part in Eastenders or Corrie.

Elephant Stone
25-11-2013, 01:33 PM
So many short sentences. It's really annoying.

JohnStephens91
25-11-2013, 01:42 PM
Aidan Smith is a talentless nobody that can't write for toffee.

3pm
25-11-2013, 01:44 PM
I thought Heartfelt was quite funny and certainly don't hold it against him. This piece was ok, nothing special and be written many times before. The dig at Vine was cheap and unnecessary.

I bought it but never read it.

I also know some of the 'characters' in the book and they hate Hibs.

I genuinely don't know how he managed it. Well, I do...money.

Purple & Green
25-11-2013, 01:48 PM
I think Kenny Miller - mentioned in the article - has scored more career goals than O' Connor & Riordan put together.

bigwheel
25-11-2013, 01:52 PM
I bought it but never read it.

I also know some of the 'characters' in the book and they hate Hibs.

I genuinely don't know how he managed it. Well, I do...money.

But that's surely the whole point....that it's a difficult thing to do......I'm not sure "Barcafelt" would be quite as difficult a year to write....I'm sure he did it for some money...it's his job after all. Equally, I'm sure he did it as he knew it would be an interesting dilemma. it was a decent book, not outstanding, but had some highs in it.

JeMeSouviens
25-11-2013, 02:01 PM
But that's surely the whole point....that it's a difficult thing to do......I'm not sure "Barcafelt" would be quite as difficult a year to write....I'm sure he did it for some money...it's his job after all. Equally, I'm sure he did it as he knew it would be an interesting dilemma. it was a decent book, not outstanding, but had some highs in it.

I haven't read it but the fact that he could do it voluntarily on a whim tells me he's not the sort that would make the dilemma at all interesting. It's like "Fever Pitch": the whole premise is that it's the diary of a diehard whereas in fact it's the story of a pretty wet gloryhunter who spends half the book listening to their results on the radio. Limp.

monktonharp
25-11-2013, 04:38 PM
I'm sure there must be a walk on part in Eastenders or Corrie.

couldnae be corrie, the accent would give him away, likesay:wink::wink: and eastenders, Phil would have something to say about him trying to muscle in.

Kaiser1962
25-11-2013, 05:05 PM
I think Kenny Miller - mentioned in the article - has scored more career goals than O' Connor & Riordan put together.


Not quite....but pretty close.

KM has 197 goals plus 18 for Scotland and 2 for the U21's. DR has 117 career goals and GOC has 104 plus 4 at international level. So its KM at 217 with GOC/DR at 225. KM has played 661 matches compared to DR 327 and GOC 363 for combined total of 690.

stu in nottingham
25-11-2013, 06:09 PM
Not quite....but pretty close.

KM has 197 goals plus 18 for Scotland and 2 for the U21's. DR has 117 career goals and GOC has 104 plus 4 at international level. So its KM at 217 with GOC/DR at 225. KM has played 661 matches compared to DR 327 and GOC 363 for combined total of 690.

I think the really telling statistic there is the one indicating that Miller has played almost as many games as the two of them put together. That's at once impressive but nevertheless something of a shame.

hibbydog
25-11-2013, 06:09 PM
Ach, quite a boring read with nothing original or thought provoking.

Ronniekirk
25-11-2013, 07:56 PM
No sure about anyone else but personally I'm sick of hearing and reading about these 2. They are grown men who have ****d up their football careers as it stands, tuff. They were legends in a lot of people's eyes and I appreciate what they did but its done.....gone...they won't be back. When will the press and some fans just stop and let it go.
Tend to agree Nostalgia always fills as space when there are periods like now when we don't have a striker scoring .However the fact is they were two players with undoubted talent who didn't realise their full potential.The in itself is a tragic waste but they both made choices and are now paying the price If youngers players can learn from there mistakes then so be it But while I have great memories that's all they are now .Time to make some new ones.

weonlywon6-2
25-11-2013, 09:05 PM
Not much of a story if he is trying to make an impact somewhere

True about Vine though

RIP
26-11-2013, 10:47 AM
From today's Scotland on Sunday, not seen it posted...

http://www.scotsman.com/news/aidan-smith-riordan-and-o-connor-s-roles-at-hibs-1-3200245 (http://www.scotsman.com/news/aidan-smith-riordan-and-o-connor-s-roles-at-hibs-1-3200245)

One things for sure Aiden Smith is no investigative journalist.

There is a whole chapter unwritten about the way that management allowed young Hibs players the freedom to conduct an unprofessional lifestyle and associate with the Edinburgh club scene. Some players like Scotty, Kevin and Steven Whittaker left Edinburgh and joined clubs where that sort of conduct was not tolerated by their employers. In the case of Scotty this freed him of some dodgy characters who were hanging around like a bad smell. He has buckled down and become an excellent role model for club and country.

From about 2002, Hibs supporting families suffered a decade worth of embarassment with stories about Hibs players or former Hibs players in trouble for one thing or another. Club management were way too remote from their staff and soft on discipline as a result. In the case of Deek and Garry they were then invited back for another time at the club bringing their baggage back with them. Hopefully lessons have been learned by the board that we need staff that conduct themselves with dignity on and off the park and give of their time to the supporters and the local community.

All that said I'm really glad we saw Derek and Garry in their heyday as young guns. Some fantastic games and memories.

GREEN WARLORD
26-11-2013, 11:05 AM
when I saw the name on the heading, initially my thoughts were, who gives a ... what he says. On reading, I think, fair play . a lot of it is true. most Hibs fans will regret the early demise of these 2 guys, who were revered at times with Hibs fans. I'd still like to see a cameo role for Deeks btw

Could you imagine Deeks wearing a bright red jock strap and singing 'Word Up' :hmmm:

silverhibee
26-11-2013, 12:21 PM
One things for sure Aiden Smith is no investigative journalist.

There is a whole chapter unwritten about the way that management allowed young Hibs players the freedom to conduct an unprofessional lifestyle and associate with the Edinburgh club scene. Some players like Scotty, Kevin and Steven Whittaker left Edinburgh and joined clubs where that sort of conduct was not tolerated by their employers. In the case of Scotty this freed him of some dodgy characters who were hanging around like a bad smell. He has buckled down and become an excellent role model for club and country.

From about 2002, Hibs supporting families suffered a decade worth of embarassment with stories about Hibs players or former Hibs players in trouble for one thing or another. Club management were way too remote from their staff and soft on discipline as a result. In the case of Deek and Garry they were then invited back for another time at the club bringing their baggage back with them. Hopefully lessons have been learned by the board that we need staff that conduct themselves with dignity on and off the park and give of their time to the supporters and the local community.

All that said I'm really glad we saw Derek and Garry in their heyday as young guns. Some fantastic games and memories.


So you are saying that the bad culture at Hibs started with the golden genaration from 2002.?

Elephant Stone
26-11-2013, 01:00 PM
One things for sure Aiden Smith is no investigative journalist.

There is a whole chapter unwritten about the way that management allowed young Hibs players the freedom to conduct an unprofessional lifestyle and associate with the Edinburgh club scene. Some players like Scotty, Kevin and Steven Whittaker left Edinburgh and joined clubs where that sort of conduct was not tolerated by their employers. In the case of Scotty this freed him of some dodgy characters who were hanging around like a bad smell. He has buckled down and become an excellent role model for club and country.

From about 2002, Hibs supporting families suffered a decade worth of embarassment with stories about Hibs players or former Hibs players in trouble for one thing or another. Club management were way too remote from their staff and soft on discipline as a result. In the case of Deek and Garry they were then invited back for another time at the club bringing their baggage back with them. Hopefully lessons have been learned by the board that we need staff that conduct themselves with dignity on and off the park and give of their time to the supporters and the local community.

All that said I'm really glad we saw Derek and Garry in their heyday as young guns. Some fantastic games and memories.

A decade worth of embarrassment? Come on.

Our youth development has probably been the envy of most Scottish clubs, if not all of them. The fact that our Gaz appears to have a coke habit and Riordan's career won't finish the way it started probably doesn't amount to a decade of embarrassment for most Hibs supporting families.

Betty Boop
26-11-2013, 01:02 PM
Could you imagine Deeks wearing a bright red jock strap and singing 'Word Up' :hmmm:

:greengrin

3pm
26-11-2013, 01:02 PM
Ironically, he probably missed Riordan and O'Connor at their peak because he was away watching Hearts.

DAZ86
26-11-2013, 01:10 PM
No sure about anyone else but personally I'm sick of hearing and reading about these 2. They are grown men who have ****d up their football careers as it stands, tuff. They were legends in a lot of people's eyes and I appreciate what they did but its done.....gone...they won't be back. When will the press and some fans just stop and let it go.

So we are wrong to appreciate and take an interest in what they have done for our club?

I am sure an article on what Sauzee is up to now would not trigger this response. Yes these guys are the other end of the spectrum but lets support them, in their new ventures. Bury, Alloa, wherever.....

TheFamous1875
26-11-2013, 02:05 PM
There was Latapy's nonsense as well, that was at least 2/3 years before any nonsense with the 'golden generation'.

I don't know how our development of these players is looked upon. On one hand, we have the latest most successful Scottish export in football in Fletcher, and a commanding Scott Brown at the helm of a good Celtic side, and not forgetting Steven Whittaker, who's plying his trade down at Norwich.
There's also Kenny Miller, who's crafted a very good career for himself, despite having a somewhat nomadic existence, he has consistently turned out for the national team and brought some success through his goals.

On the other hand we have arguably the two most talented players of their era in Riordan and O'Connor, with one totally out of consideration it is assumed due to his attitude on and off the field, the misdemeanours, etc. He's likely to be a bad influence on a (young) dressing room.
Too much of a risk to take on it seems, despite his objectively superior talent as a footballer (I personally think this 'quarantine' has a lot to do with pigheaded managers in this country believing every word they read in the paper like a bunch of saps) and the other with a nationally (channel 4) publicised drug problem, continually in and out of court rooms and doing community service gardening in his local town, immediately marking him as a no go, and legitimately so.

In between these two extremes you have players such as yer Thomson's and Murray's who've had their promising careers blighted by injuries/illness. There's still no questioning their talents, but in reality, it's more of a question of bad luck that they didn't flourish to the levels that they showed the potential for.

All in all, it's a mixed bag. People fall through the cracks (Best - arguably the world's greatest player), sometimes it's inevitable. I can't say if it was with Riordan and O'Connor - I'd like to say it wasn't, and that these cracks were never filled by the football club that were meant to nourish and protect and educate them. However, for Fletcher (I have a feeling John Collins' influence played a big part in this), it goes to show how far your application can take you, even if you were maybe not on the same level as some others, and if this approach can be subscribed to some, then why not all?

I think one of the club's main follies was what the club was represented as - a stepping stone to Glasgow, give or take. You see Gauld and Souttar and Stevie May signing new deals with their respective clubs as they want to improve and ply their trade, develop until they're ready to move on, physically and mentally. They all have the right attitude.

All the players of Hibs generation wanted to leave as soon as possible, with most, if not all not ready to make their move. I can't think of any one of them that have lived up to their potential other than Fletcher (who was forced to stay here by the club and not move to Celtic which he begged for as he wanted to 'move up a level' - I wonder how he feels about that now?).
Some players have done well, although none excluding Fletcher have really fulfilled their potential (and he's still going strong in the EPL).

Like a previous poster mentioned re Brown - the OF, the 'big' clubs - they don't stand for it, and I don't see why the same rule shouldn't apply to Hibernian F.C.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

jacomo
26-11-2013, 04:11 PM
I think one of the club's main follies was what the club was represented as - a stepping stone to Glasgow, give or take. You see Gauld and Souttar and Stevie May signing new deals with their respective clubs as they want to improve and ply their trade, develop until they're ready to move on, physically and mentally. They all have the right attitude.

All the players of Hibs generation wanted to leave as soon as possible, with most, if not all not ready to make their move. I can't think of any one of them that have lived up to their potential other than Fletcher (who was forced to stay here by the club and not move to Celtic which he begged for as he wanted to 'move up a level' - I wonder how he feels about that now?).


I don't think this is quite right. Almost all those players signed at least one contract extension with Hibs - in fact, much of the bad blood with Katie and Scotty was that they had only recently signed new deals before they started agitating for a move. This was how we managed to get good transfer fees for them (apart from Riordan and Murray, who let their contracts run down).

As for not fulfilling their potential - well, yes, not much to argue about there.

RIP
26-11-2013, 05:48 PM
So you are saying that the bad culture at Hibs started with the golden generation from 2002.?

I don't think I am saying that - am I? I think it is a reflection on the way a club is run. Young guys left to their own devices may always be tempted to misbehave. Give them strict groundrules at the right age and a high motivation to behave professionally and you create a model pro. That culture has to be delivered by the club and survive from manager to manager, not be left up to the 'manager of the month' to be accountable for. He has a role to play but we need a higher level of club standard to adhere to.


A decade worth of embarrassment? Come on. The fact that our Gaz appears to have a coke habit and Riordan's career won't finish the way it started probably doesn't amount to a decade of embarrassment for most Hibs supporting families.

Aye ES I was guilty of exaggeration there. I guess all that I'm saying is that the the club did a very poor job on discipline at that time. A lot of Hibs supporting families I know wouldn't have let their youngsters away with that kind of behaviour and neither would have most employers. For a business where fitness, hard work and discipline is meant to bring rewards I found it very embarassing that my club was so lax.