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View Full Version : Patience needed, theres no magic wand!



California-Hibs
23-11-2013, 06:01 PM
Terry Butcher is going to turn us around, of that I have no doubt. However he can only play with the cards he's been dealt with at the moment. He of course is going to say things like 'I feel we have decent quality here, these boys can prove it to me and say I don't need to bring anyone here in January' etc, to try and boost confidence and all of that, it's what a good manager coming into a club should say! However, I have no doubt that Terry know's already the style of players he'll want to try and get in January.

We're going to have to be patient. We all know today wasn't good viewing, but he was hardly going to come in and make us play like Barca after just 6 training sessions and working with the current players we have.

There's a myth that's went around for awhile that 'we have the best squad outside Celtic hands down'. This is far from the case, theres players there who are very limited in ability.

Before the game many of us were excited to see the set-up, Cairney, Robertson and Craig in the midfield was an exciting prospect, and with work could maybe develop.

As bad as it was, it's a point away from home against an in form team. Let's give him time to get his style across to the players.

:tbgwa:

Dashing Bob S
23-11-2013, 06:04 PM
Terry Butcher is going to turn us around, of that I have no doubt. However he can only play with the cards he's been dealt with at the moment. He of course is going to say things like 'I feel we have decent quality here, these boys can prove it to me and say I don't need to bring anyone here in January' etc, to try and boost confidence and all of that, it's what a good manager coming into a club should say! However, I have no doubt that Terry know's already the style of players he'll want to try and get in January.

We're going to have to be patient. We all know today wasn't good viewing, but he was hardly going to come in and make us play like Barca after just 6 training sessions and working with the current players we have.

There's a myth that's went around for awhile that 'we have the best squad outside Celtic hands down'. This is far from the case, theres players there who are very limited in ability.

Before the game many of us were excited to see the set-up, Cairney, Robertson and Craig in the midfield was an exciting prospect, and with work could maybe develop.

As bad as it was, it's a point away from home against an in form team. Let's give him time to get his style across to the players.

:tbgwa:

The idea that we have a talented squad who are massively underperforming, is, as you say, a deeply flawed one.

However, there are some players who can definitely perform better, given the type of motivation and coaching the new management will bring. However, there is another category who are simply not good enough. The trick for TB/MM is to work out who is which group and act accordingly.

Pete
23-11-2013, 06:29 PM
I don't think our squad is as half as bad as some people are making out and I don't think we played too badly under the circumstances. This is an entirely new system and way of playing and it will take time for everyone to adapt so that it works on match day. Patience needs to be shown with players who are already low on confidence and given time I reckon some in our squad will come good and fit in to the new way. I agree we need some new faces but maybe some old ones will be transformed.

I actually enjoyed the match today because it proved that things are happening. Maybe once all the players are fit and confident enough we will see a bit more end product but the fact that we are actually now getting forward speaks volumes.

Today proved that we are heading in the right direction.

Pretty Boy
23-11-2013, 06:38 PM
I'm unsure about our squad.

There are clearly good players in it but i don't think it's a good squad if that makes sense. We have very little pace and creativity. I know people will mention Harris but 1 player isn't the answer, it's bot fair on the young boy. Cairney when fit is an asset but he's in no way fast. Zoubir could be good, i don't know but i suspect he might be a bit enigmatic. We have a load of decent to good central midfielders but they are all very similar. Defensively we have a perfectly ok but ageing right back and a permanently injured one, a left back who seems out of sorts and a converted midfielder as cover, a promising young centre back, a no nonsense centre back, the decent Hanlon and one who is one bad move away from an iniury, we have a good goalkeeper and a have potential up front but desperately need a poacher type.

I really don't know. There are good players, players who should be doing better but it's a horribly unbalanced squad and not a particularly good one imo. O think TB will get more from them though.

Allan45
23-11-2013, 06:55 PM
I don't think our squad is as half as bad as some people are making out and I don't think we played too badly under the circumstances. This is an entirely new system and way of playing and it will take time for everyone to adapt so that it works on match day. Patience needs to be shown with players who are already low on confidence and given time I reckon some in our squad will come good and fit in to the new way. I agree we need some new faces but maybe some old ones will be transformed.

I actually enjoyed the match today because it proved that things are happening. Maybe once all the players are fit and confident enough we will see a bit more end product but the fact that we are actually now getting forward speaks volumes.

Today proved that we are heading in the right direction.
I agree:flag:

Spike Mandela
23-11-2013, 07:01 PM
Terry Butcher is going to turn us around, of that I have no doubt. However he can only play with the cards he's been dealt with at the moment. He of course is going to say things like 'I feel we have decent quality here, these boys can prove it to me and say I don't need to bring anyone here in January' etc, to try and boost confidence and all of that, it's what a good manager coming into a club should say! However, I have no doubt that Terry know's already the style of players he'll want to try and get in January.

We're going to have to be patient. We all know today wasn't good viewing, but he was hardly going to come in and make us play like Barca after just 6 training sessions and working with the current players we have.

There's a myth that's went around for awhile that 'we have the best squad outside Celtic hands down'. This is far from the case, theres players there who are very limited in ability.

Before the game many of us were excited to see the set-up, Cairney, Robertson and Craig in the midfield was an exciting prospect, and with work could maybe develop.

As bad as it was, it's a point away from home against an in form team. Let's give him time to get his style across to the players.

:tbgwa:

Very politely put.:devil:

Franck Stanton
23-11-2013, 07:06 PM
I'm unsure about our squad.

There are clearly good players in it but i don't think it's a good squad if that makes sense. We have very little pace and creativity. I know people will mention Harris but 1 player isn't the answer, it's bot fair on the young boy. Cairney when fit is an asset but he's in no way fast. Zoubir could be good, i don't know but i suspect he might be a bit enigmatic. We have a load of decent to good central midfielders but they are all very similar. Defensively we have a perfectly ok but ageing right back and a permanently injured one, a left back who seems out of sorts and a converted midfielder as cover, a promising young centre back, a no nonsense centre back, the decent Hanlon and one who is one bad move away from an iniury, we have a good goalkeeper and a have potential up front but desperately need a poacher type.

I really don't know. There are good players, players who should be doing better but it's a horribly unbalanced squad and not a particularly good one imo. O think TB will get more from them though.
Well said that man. Sums up our squad well. :aok:

Speedway
23-11-2013, 07:47 PM
Magic wand needed, there is no patience.

Pete
23-11-2013, 07:48 PM
You could dissect the ICT squad and look at each player individually and you might see some good players with attributes. However, consider where they came from and how they were getting on a few years ago. None of them were pulling up trees and were either going nowhere or considered raw talent. Butcher and his cronies gave them something to buy into and time to adapt. The thing they all had in common is that they wanted it.

A clean slate for our players means just that and I amn't going to judge if they will fit in. If they are hungry and have something to prove then they have a chance but if they think they know better then they will not fit in however good they are.

Remember, lots of the players we salivate over at ICT were apparently not good enough as far as their own fans were concerned when they first started.

portyhibernian
23-11-2013, 08:37 PM
Disagree about needing a poacher - Collins is a penalty box striker being asked to play a similar role as Griffiths did last season. I think we need a player of similar ilk to Griffiths who can do that running and dropping deep, Collins to put away the chances that fall to him in the box.

rcarter1
23-11-2013, 08:56 PM
Disagree about needing a poacher - Collins is a penalty box striker being asked to play a similar role as Griffiths did last season. I think we need a player of similar ilk to Griffiths who can do that running and dropping deep, Collins to put away the chances that fall to him in the box.

He isnt the quickest, but puts in a shift, and when motivated looks hungry. Im interested to see wether TB add a player to make use of his strengths or replace him with someone with more pace. I like Collins, so hope we can do a bit of both.

Albion Hibs
23-11-2013, 09:16 PM
Terry Butcher is going to turn us around, of that I have no doubt. However he can only play with the cards he's been dealt with at the moment. He of course is going to say things like 'I feel we have decent quality here, these boys can prove it to me and say I don't need to bring anyone here in January' etc, to try and boost confidence and all of that, it's what a good manager coming into a club should say! However, I have no doubt that Terry know's already the style of players he'll want to try and get in January.

We're going to have to be patient. We all know today wasn't good viewing, but he was hardly going to come in and make us play like Barca after just 6 training sessions and working with the current players we have.

There's a myth that's went around for awhile that 'we have the best squad outside Celtic hands down'. This is far from the case, theres players there who are very limited in ability.

Before the game many of us were excited to see the set-up, Cairney, Robertson and Craig in the midfield was an exciting prospect, and with work could maybe develop.

As bad as it was, it's a point away from home against an in form team. Let's give him time to get his style across to the players.

:tbgwa:

agreed, we have a poor team, thankfully it is a poor league and we now have a manager with a track record for results in this league, who has a team behind him that have a track record in finding decent players. For the first time in a long time I have a bit of optimism / excitement about the future.m

Chibs
24-11-2013, 12:27 AM
" a thousand mile journey begins with a single step" Confucius

s2hart
24-11-2013, 12:48 AM
He isnt the quickest, but puts in a shift, and when motivated looks hungry. Im interested to see wether TB add a player to make use of his strengths or replace him with someone with more pace. I like Collins, so hope we can do a bit of both.

I agree, definitely a player in there, hopefully he will get his confidence back, although he seems to be everywhere apart from the oppositions box, I suppose lack of service.

On an other note for me was (sorry if mentioned elsewhere) was the difference in throw ins, we actually managed to find our man and retain the ball.

IberianHibernian
24-11-2013, 01:03 AM
Not quite sure what " Turning it round " means in this case . No Hibs fan is pleased to see us 7th in the league any year whoever is the manager but we`re not exactly in a crisis situation either . Before today , we had 6 league games to go in 2013 and had won 14 points from same opponents in 6 matches in first round of fixtures so new manager will now need 13 points from next 5 league matches to match Fenlon`s record . Won`t mention Scottish Cup since it`d be unfair to judge any manager on one game . Not many , if any of us , know the financial side of Pat`s departure or TB`s arrival but it`s safe to asume we`ve paid ICT compensation on the basis that TB and MM have considerable experience of Scottish League so we won`t be waiting for them to learn before we progress otherwise we presume club would have gone through a long selection process before selecting Pat`s successor .

The Green Goblin
24-11-2013, 01:31 AM
Not quite sure what " Turning it round " means in this case . No Hibs fan is pleased to see us 7th in the league any year whoever is the manager but we`re not exactly in a crisis situation either . Before today , we had 6 league games to go in 2013 and had won 14 points from same opponents in 6 matches in first round of fixtures so new manager will now need 13 points from next 5 league matches to match Fenlon`s record . Won`t mention Scottish Cup since it`d be unfair to judge any manager on one game . Not many , if any of us , know the financial side of Pat`s departure or TB`s arrival but it`s safe to asume we`ve paid ICT compensation on the basis that TB and MM have considerable experience of Scottish League so we won`t be waiting for them to learn before we progress otherwise we presume club would have gone through a long selection process before selecting Pat`s successor .

If TB notches up 3 home league wins in 2014 up to early November, he'll have beaten "Pat's record".

Stats eh? :greengrin

Hibbyradge
24-11-2013, 01:31 AM
Butcher out. Magic wand in.

The Green Goblin
24-11-2013, 01:33 AM
Butcher out. Magic wand in.

Not sure mr radge. Magic wands are notorious for needing three attempts to achieve everything they do. Not sure the fans have the patience for that...

weonlywon6-2
24-11-2013, 06:54 AM
Terry Butcher is going to turn us around, of that I have no doubt. However he can only play with the cards he's been dealt with at the moment. He of course is going to say things like 'I feel we have decent quality here, these boys can prove it to me and say I don't need to bring anyone here in January' etc, to try and boost confidence and all of that, it's what a good manager coming into a club should say! However, I have no doubt that Terry know's already the style of players he'll want to try and get in January.

We're going to have to be patient. We all know today wasn't good viewing, but he was hardly going to come in and make us play like Barca after just 6 training sessions and working with the current players we have.

There's a myth that's went around for awhile that 'we have the best squad outside Celtic hands down'. This is far from the case, theres players there who are very limited in ability.

Before the game many of us were excited to see the set-up, Cairney, Robertson and Craig in the midfield was an exciting prospect, and with work could maybe develop.

As bad as it was, it's a point away from home against an in form team. Let's give him time to get his style across to the players.

:tbgwa:


Good post,also thought Butchers interview after was well.done.
As the game went on we became more confident and most importantly the team put in a shift
Its gonna take a bit of time but will be worth it

California-Hibs
24-11-2013, 07:23 AM
Not quite sure what " Turning it round " means in this case . No Hibs fan is pleased to see us 7th in the league any year whoever is the manager but we`re not exactly in a crisis situation either . Before today , we had 6 league games to go in 2013 and had won 14 points from same opponents in 6 matches in first round of fixtures so new manager will now need 13 points from next 5 league matches to match Fenlon`s record . Won`t mention Scottish Cup since it`d be unfair to judge any manager on one game . Not many , if any of us , know the financial side of Pat`s departure or TB`s arrival but it`s safe to asume we`ve paid ICT compensation on the basis that TB and MM have considerable experience of Scottish League so we won`t be waiting for them to learn before we progress otherwise we presume club would have gone through a long selection process before selecting Pat`s successor .

Turning it around in the sence that he will actually turn us into a team who creates chances and are nice on the eye. Yesterday we created next to nothing, and we are also the lowest scores in the league. That's the department in what I mean that I feel he'll turn us around in. We're going to being a more creative team and better to watch, but it won't happen overnight, it's gonna take time.

greenpaper55
24-11-2013, 08:19 AM
Sorting Hibs problems are akin to halting a supertanker, it takes a long time !. iI think Butcher will have a clearer picture today than he had with all the training sessions of the previous week, as for magic wands , the only ones that work in football are ones that sprinkle loads of cash for the manager to spend !.

Eyrie
24-11-2013, 10:10 AM
On an other note for me was (sorry if mentioned elsewhere) was the difference in throw ins, we actually managed to find our man and retain the ball.
The key for me was the tempo we tried to play, because quick throw ins made it harder for the opposition to set up to defend and meant we were more likely to have a man available to receive the ball.

It wasn't just the throw ins - we moved the ball forward much quicker (sometimes a little too quick and aimless, but the intention was there) and we were quick to press St Mirren when they had the ball, with the result that we got the ball back sooner and higher up the park.

lord bunberry
24-11-2013, 10:17 AM
We don't really have a choice, we're just going to have to be patient and let butcher work his magic. I hope it doesn't take long though, I'm sick of being patient.

Viva_Palmeiras
24-11-2013, 10:41 AM
" a thousand mile journey begins with a single step" Confucius

But it will take you longer if you start off in the wrong direction
- Calderwood

Hibbyradge
24-11-2013, 10:44 AM
Butcher won't be able to bring in the right players we need in January. They just won't be available.

We'll need to be more patient than that.

Chibs
24-11-2013, 02:38 PM
But it will take you longer if you start off in the wrong direction
- Calderwood
Touché :greengrin

Ronniekirk
24-11-2013, 02:46 PM
Butcger won't be able to bring in the right players we need in January. They just won't be available.

We'll need to be more patient than that.
Agree patience is a virtue, and by Virtue of us being skint after brining in the right management team it will take time unless those that have been staying away decide to buy half season tickets in there tTHOUSNDS . However I think in Steve M we have found a scout who can identify talented players WHo can then be coached and motivated and played in a System that is tried and tested by this management team .Then we will reap the rewards In the meantime wE saw improvements on saturday that bode well but creating clear cut chances and having strikers take them will take someone to take responsibility for shooting rather than alwaYs looking to pass to someone else who Then does the same.

NAE NOOKIE
24-11-2013, 06:23 PM
Dont know if Tel has a magic wand or even if he is a lucky manager. Losing your best striker till after Christmas ( if reports are to be believed ) 5 minutes into your first game doesnt bode well though.

I guess he will persist in trying to get the best from what he has now until the summer. I doubt Hibs will do anything in January, the players just arnt available and I'm willing to bet the transfer kitty is nil at the moment.

It will be interesting to see who is let go in the summer though. Not sure whats what with contracts, but McPake and Clancy look like good bets. I would love Hibs to be the sort of club who can carry players on the wage bill who cant play because of contstant injury problems, but we're not.

I liked the look of young Cummings when he came on against ICT .... even though he hardly kicked the ball I just got a feeling about him. The same feeling I got about Alex Harris after seeing him for about 10 minutes. Would also like to see Sam Stanton get a decent shot. I'm also hoping that Handling and Caldwell can step up to the plate. Lets face it .. if you cant get a game in a team who are the lowest scoring outfit in British football then when are you going to force your way into the team.

The one positive I can see is that Terry Butcher may well be able to attract some decent players for two reasons. 1) He has advanced a few players careers at ICT who were relatively obscure intil going there and 2) He is an English footballing hero and well known down south which may well be attractive to players who may not have considered Scotland as a place to come.

Cant help thinking this is going to be a long hard road to be honest.

MB62
25-11-2013, 08:38 AM
We are obviously struggling up front, especially now with the loss of the Heff and I would suggest that if there are any pennies left in the kitty, then a striker is No.1 priority. However, our striking problem can be helped by encouraging our midfielders to get up in support and in to the box more often than they have done all season, they need to be contributing to the goals for column too.

southsider
25-11-2013, 08:49 AM
Disagree about needing a poacher - Collins is a penalty box striker being asked to play a similar role as Griffiths did last season. I think we need a player of similar ilk to Griffiths who can do that running and dropping deep, Collins to put away the chances that fall to him in the box.

Or we could just break the bank and resign Leigh.......Or if i won Euro Millions !

Aldo
25-11-2013, 09:49 AM
I am sure a few folk on here with no patience will end up patients with the stress and strain of not being patient. :-D

blackpoolhibs
25-11-2013, 11:40 AM
I don't see us making much progress quickly, Saturday showed us again just how poor we are at creating chances, or even get into positions where we might have a shot at goal.

I keep saying it, but we just dont have a good squad, they are plodders who have the odd decent game. Much like the rest of the bottom 6 teams, they will win the odd game, but we will do enough this season to escape a relegation fight.

I'm hoping we can bring a gem to the club in January, but expect the real change to happen in the summer.

JimBHibees
25-11-2013, 01:36 PM
We are obviously struggling up front, especially now with the loss of the Heff and I would suggest that if there are any pennies left in the kitty, then a striker is No.1 priority. However, our striking problem can be helped by encouraging our midfielders to get up in support and in to the box more often than they have done all season, they need to be contributing to the goals for column too.

Agree I actually think there was a much more concerted attempt by the midfield to get into the box on Saturday. I can remember at one time in the second half when Collins was on the right that there were 3 Hibs players, yes 3 :greengrin in the box, havent seen that in a couple of years. Looked to be more energy with not great quality however we did appear to be clearly pressing other teams higher up the pitch. Thought it was ok without being great need Harris back and hopefully a more attacking right back to assist in getting decent crosses in.

--------
25-11-2013, 02:07 PM
I don't see us making much progress quickly, Saturday showed us again just how poor we are at creating chances, or even get into positions where we might have a shot at goal.

I keep saying it, but we just dont have a good squad, they are plodders who have the odd decent game. Much like the rest of the bottom 6 teams, they will win the odd game, but we will do enough this season to escape a relegation fight.

I'm hoping we can bring a gem to the club in January, but expect the real change to happen in the summer.



:agree: Though I'd suggest that the real change will start to happen in the summer. It'll take more than one window to sort out the mess.

I hope that the rumours that Butcher got the promise of a decent budget as a condition of his coming to us were true.

Hibbyradge
25-11-2013, 02:30 PM
I hope that the rumours that Butcher got the promise of a decent budget as a condition of his coming to us were true.

Where have these rumours come from?

What do they mean by "decent"?

Where do the rumours say the decent budget will come from?

Aldo
25-11-2013, 03:12 PM
Where have these rumours come from? What do they mean by "decent"? Where do the rumours say the decent budget will come from?

I'm hoping Marsella will find a gem or two (as he did for ICT) for us. Hoping he has a few lined up for Jan??

--------
25-11-2013, 03:25 PM
Where have these rumours come from?

What do they mean by "decent"?

Where do the rumours say the decent budget will come from?


All I can say is that that was what was being said in Inverness before he left there - that he had been assured of enough resources to do the job properly - more than Fenlon had.

Of course, it would likely be enough if he proves capable of managing the budget he has to sign players who are (a) relevant to the needs of the team, and (b) fit to play regularly in the team and not spend most of their time in the treatment room.

Oh yes, and maybe make use of the younger guys at ER - the players who always seem to be "about" to break into the first team but who always seem to drop out of contention after three or four games. No matter how well they play.

Hibbyradge
25-11-2013, 04:33 PM
All I can say is that that was what was being said in Inverness before he left there - that he had been assured of enough resources to do the job properly - more than Fenlon had.

Of course, it would likely be enough if he proves capable of managing the budget he has to sign players who are (a) relevant to the needs of the team, and (b) fit to play regularly in the team and not spend most of their time in the treatment room.

Oh yes, and maybe make use of the younger guys at ER - the players who always seem to be "about" to break into the first team but who always seem to drop out of contention after three or four games. No matter how well they play.

Ok. I'm not sure I believe the bigger budget than Fenlon chat, but the rest I agree with.

ancient hibee
25-11-2013, 06:52 PM
Ok. I'm not sure I believe the bigger budget than Fenlon chat, but the rest I agree with.

It'll be a bigger budget than Fenlon had if more season tickets are sold.That's the system.

Billy Whizz
25-11-2013, 06:54 PM
I'm hoping Marsella will find a gem or two (as he did for ICT) for us. Hoping he has a few lined up for Jan??

I wonder what's happened to the targets Pat said he had lined up for January

Aldo
25-11-2013, 06:59 PM
I wonder what's happened to the targets Pat said he had lined up for January

I wonder indeed??

--------
25-11-2013, 07:47 PM
Ok. I'm not sure I believe the bigger budget than Fenlon chat, but the rest I agree with.


Actually, neither do I.

And I'm not convinced that the problem has been a lack of resources. It's more likely to have been the inappropriate use of the resources provided.

I'm trying (and failing miserably) to recall the last time a Hibs manager signed a player who really excited me.

blackpoolhibs
25-11-2013, 08:45 PM
I wonder what's happened to the targets Pat said he had lined up for January

It was 3 central midfielders and a couple of injured defenders he was targeting, I think Butcher will pass on them.

Aldo
25-11-2013, 09:17 PM
It was 3 central midfielders and a couple of injured defenders he was targeting, I think Butcher will pass on them.

Ooooo. There was me thinking it was only 2. Off the bar??

Nice one tho BH

stevejordan
25-11-2013, 09:46 PM
Pat Fenlon has left Terry with a bad hand in cards if you were at the poker table new players in in January :tbgwa:

Jonnyboy
25-11-2013, 10:48 PM
We are obviously struggling up front, especially now with the loss of the Heff and I would suggest that if there are any pennies left in the kitty, then a striker is No.1 priority. However, our striking problem can be helped by encouraging our midfielders to get up in support and in to the box more often than they have done all season, they need to be contributing to the goals for column too.

How about this one MB?




http://www.aol.co.uk/video/striker-scores-wonder-goal/518026438/

Purehibee_MYB
26-11-2013, 01:04 AM
Spoke to Alex Harris tonight, he's on the mend only a few weeks away... and he spoke to Butcher for the first time today and is very optimistic for the future! :thumbsup: