STF on STV News

[Jack]

Coming up soon.

WTF STF doesn't do Hibs on telly!!!!!

[Mikey]

Coming on now.......

[Mikey]

Well that was brief :greengrin

[Hexham Hibee]

STF "We are looking forward to new beginnings"

GGTTH

[Top Pans Hibby]

Jeez. Just listened to Farmer. No wonder, as a club, we're going nowhere

[Hibercelona]

I just sneezed. What was said?

[WhileTheChief..]

Jeez. Just listened to Farmer. No wonder, as a club, we're going nowhere

Eh?? How you figure that from what he said?

[Top Pans Hibby]

Eh?? How you figure that from what he said?

Inspiring. Not.

[Hibbyradge]

Jeez. Just listened to Farmer. No wonder, as a club, we're going nowhere

lol

[Mikey]

Eh?? How you figure that from what he said?

Wouldn't have mattered what he said :wink:

[WestEndHibee]

Inspiring. Not.

Are you :fishin: yeh? :greengrin

[Jack]

STF spotted by a camera crew while out shopping lol

That's what it looked like, didn't even look as if he had time to finish his biscuit.

[Mikey]

STF spotted by a camera crew while out shopping lol

That's what it looked like, didn't even look as if he had time to finish his biscuit.

Lucky he wasn't in the Hearts shop, he'd have got a job.

[hibees 7062]

Wouldn't have mattered what he said :wink:

Correct we should empty him , wonder if Romonov would be interested :rolleyes:

[Leithenhibby]

Correct we should empty him , wonder if Romonov would be interested :rolleyes:

Yeah, that's a cracking idea............ :rolleyes:

[Leithenhibby]

unlike your posts?
We are witnessing a new beginning, ok, another new beginning but a new beginning nonetheless.
Really looking forward to our next home game now to see this unfold.

Well said..... :agree:

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I just sneezed. What was said?

I blinked :rolleyes:

WTF was that about?

Don't tell me that the .net criticism is getting to you Tam? :wink:

[LeithBoozy]

Fact remains, there would not be a Hibs without him. Or his relative in the past, God bless them both.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Fact remains, there would not be a Hibs without him. Or his relative in the past, God bless them both.

Amen, broheim.

[clerriehibs]

Yeah, that's a cracking idea............ :rolleyes:


I think that was his point ... :rolleyes:

[hibees 7062]

I think that was his point ... :rolleyes:


:greengrin :thumbsup:

[greenpaper55]

I wonder if some extra cash has been promised to big T , i don't remember the last time i heard sir Tom sounding so bullish on Hibs prospects.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Sir Tom can say as little as he likes. He has stood up and been counted, for that he has my eternal thanks.

[hibees 7062]

Sir Tom can say as little as he likes. He has stood up and been counted, for that he has my eternal thanks.

:agree: Told him so in GREGGS D/mains , even paid for his sandwich and coffee . Least i could do :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

Didn't make the edited version of his interview but I believe he used the 'wish I'd had ten Rod Petries' line again, as Rod stood lovingly gazing into Tom's eyes. DD piped up from the back "You can take that one if you want"

Not true of course. I made it up ......................... DD wasn't there at all :greengrin :wink:

[Saorsa]

Didn't make the edited version of his interview but I believe he used the 'wish I'd had ten Rod Petries' line again, as Rod stood lovingly gazing into Tom's eyes. DD piped up from the back "You can take that one if you want"

Not true of course. I made it up ......................... DD wasn't there at all :greengrin :wink::greengrin

[NYHibby]

STF spotted by a camera crew while out shopping lol

That's what it looked like, didn't even look as if he had time to finish his biscuit.

While I didn't see the clip, I did briefly speak to STF today. He was at the SECC to speak at a business expo I was at. I don't remember seeing TV cameras there though.

[Houchy]

Lucky he wasn't in the Hearts shop, he'd have got a job.

He could have chipped off the 3x £1 coins I super glued to the floor for the tramps to fight over. Before anyone asks I went in with my father in law who is a yam and wanted a t-shirt for going on holiday

[Alfred E Newman]

Fact remains, there would not be a Hibs without him. Or his relative in the past, God bless them both.

In a nutshell.

[RIP Bestie]

Fact remains, there would not be a Hibs without him. Or his relative in the past, God bless them both.
Amen. The man is a Legend. We are lucky to have him. He's still protecting us from sharks like White and Romanov.

[fat freddy]

The man can say whatever he wants, history will view him as our saviour and one day there will be a statue of him outside easter rd.

[davemcbain]

STF is like some mystic swami - a pithy one liner and already we're into 2 pages of dissection on his wisdom.

[Beefster]

He could have chipped off the 3x £1 coins I super glued to the floor for the tramps to fight over. Before anyone asks I went in with my father in law who is a yam and wanted a t-shirt for going on holiday

Going to the Hearts shop is nothing that a hot shower and four bottles of Dettol won't sort.

[smurf]

Sir Tom has played a part in our history. A crucial one in 1990 and again in 1991 when there were alternative bidders. He has improved dramatically our infrastructure. However, as owner he now has a duty to see us do much better where it matters. On the park.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Sir Tom has played a part in our history. A crucial one in 1990 and again in 1991 when there were alternative bidders. He has improved dramatically our infrastructure. However, as owner he now has a duty to see us do much better where it matters. On the park.

I think it's for him to decide what his duty is.

[Hibercelona]

I think it's for him to decide what his duty is.

A duty isn't something you choose, it's a requirement.

If I turned up for work and decided for myself what my duties were going to be, I don't think I would last very long.

[Beefster]

A duty isn't something you choose, it's a requirement.

If I turned up for work and decided for myself what my duties were going to be, I don't think I would last very long.

STF doesn't work at Hibs, he owns them.

[greenlex]

He could have chipped off the 3x £1 coins I super glued to the floor for the tramps to fight over. Before anyone asks I went in with my father in law who is a yam and wanted a t-shirt for going on holidayWhat a complete waste of two quid. One would have done.

[RIP Bestie]

Sir Tom has played a part in our history. A crucial one in 1990 and again in 1991 when there were alternative bidders. He has improved dramatically our infrastructure. However, as owner he now has a duty to see us do much better where it matters. On the park.
We are still here. That's what he promised. Nothing more nothing less. He had kept his word on that and we are still a top league team. I really don't see how anyone can criticise this. He said he would never allow the club to be put in a perilous position again and he has delivered. I for one will always be grateful to him.

[Pretty Boy]

STF has ensured the foundations are there for success.

He bowed to the fans wishes and kept us at ER. He has appointed the man who has overseen a huge improvement in infastructure. What we need now is the right man in the managers seat to drive 5ye improvement on the park. I think PF has done a lot of groundwork on that front and hopefully TB is the man to now lead us to clear, consistent tangible on field progress/success.

[smurf]

I think it's for him to decide what his duty is.

You think that. I disagree.

[smurf]

We are still here. That's what he promised. Nothing more nothing less. He had kept his word on that and we are still a top league team. I really don't see how anyone can criticise this. He said he would never allow the club to be put in a perilous position again and he has delivered. I for one will always be grateful to him.

He has also said that he would like us to win the Scottish Cup. That is a great objective to have.

[RIP Bestie]

He has also said that he would like us to win the Scottish Cup. That is a great objective to have.
Haven't we all said that? We could have gone down the same road as our neighbours to achieve that goal. Would that suffice?

[SaulGoodman]

STF doesn't work at Hibs, he owns them.

I thought Hearts owned us? :dunno:

[Phil D. Rolls]

A duty isn't something you choose, it's a requirement.

If I turned up for work and decided for myself what my duties were going to be, I don't think I would last very long.

The man owns the club.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You think that. I disagree.

Yes, we've done that bit.

[DarlingtonHibee]

A duty isn't something you choose, it's a requirement.

If I turned up for work and decided for myself what my duties were going to be, I don't think I would last very long.

What do you do for a living ?

[smurf]

Haven't we all said that? We could have gone down the same road as our neighbours to achieve that goal. Would that suffice?

Unfortunately with such hysterical responses it is almost impossible to have a reasoned debate about our ownership. The question you ask is so ridiculous it doesn't warrant a reply.

[Bronson]

I don't understand the problem with Farmer, what do people expect him to do that he isn't doing?

He's not even a football man never mind a hibs man as far as I'm aware, he's never going to start throwing money at a team he only saved for the benefit of the community.

[DarlingtonHibee]

I don't understand the problem with Farmer, what do people expect him to do that he isn't doing?

He's not even a football man never mind a hibs man as far as I'm aware, he's never going to start throwing money at a team he only saved for the benefit of the community.

Bronson - don't worry about it, we have a couple of drama queens on the thread, who would not know the first thing about running a business. :rolleyes:

[RIP Bestie]

Unfortunately with such hysterical responses it is almost impossible to have a reasoned debate about our ownership. The question you ask is so ridiculous it doesn't warrant a reply.
The problem with this is that I really don't get your point in the debate. Sir Tom made it clear that never again would we live out with our means. Yes, he said he would like to see us win the Scottish. So would we all. I would love to see us win the league. What would you like to see Sir Tom do to achieve winning the Scottish? Personally I would never want him to jeopardise the future of the club for one day of Scottish Cup glory. I'm confident he would never do that so where's the debate? It would be a debate if you felt differently. If you did, that would be the ridiculous part.

[smurf]

I don't understand the problem with Farmer, what do people expect him to do that he isn't doing?

He's not even a football man never mind a hibs man as far as I'm aware, he's never going to start throwing money at a team he only saved for the benefit of the community.

I don't think many if any have a problem with him personally. We are all grateful for his contributions and efforts. 1990 and 1991 he played a huge part in ensuring our very survival. However, as a football club we are not achieving as we should be. In Government the Prime Minister and in business a CEO have their roles scrutinised and debated. Why should the ownership of a football club be any different?

[smurf]

The problem with this is that I really don't get your point in the debate. Sir Tom made it clear that never again would we live out with our means. Yes, he said he would like to see us win the Scottish. So would we all. I would love to see us win the league. What would you like to see Sir Tom do to achieve winning the Scottish? Personally I would never want him to jeopardise the future of the club for one day of Scottish Cup glory. I'm confident he would never do that so where's the debate? It would be a debate if you felt differently. If you did, that would be the ridiculous part.

Nobody is calling for a ridiculous spending spree to achieve success. Who is? Fans want to see us compete where we should be as a club. Do you agree that we are underachieving as a football club?

[--------]

We'll have Lord Lucan and Shergar on the Beeb next. :rolleyes:

[Phil D. Rolls]

I don't understand the problem with Farmer, what do people expect him to do that he isn't doing?

He's not even a football man never mind a hibs man as far as I'm aware, he's never going to start throwing money at a team he only saved for the benefit of the community.

The problem is that some people don't, or refuse, to understand the history of our club.

[smurf]

The problem is that some people don't, or refuse, to understand the history of our club.

Patronising at best. Go on please explain it to us!

[superfurryhibby]

Fact remains, there would not be a Hibs without him. Or his relative in the past, God bless them both.

Yawn... I think you may be incorrect on the first point.

[paul_hfc3]

Fact remains, there would not be a Hibs without him. Or his relative in the past, God bless them both.

Well said mate

[Phil D. Rolls]

Patronising at best. Go on please explain it to us!

No.

[smurf]

No.

Because you can't. You want to stiffle any debate in a Stalinist way. "Quiet at the back. Be grateful your club is alive. Be too vocal and we shall shoot you down". Depressing.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Because you can't. You want to stiffle any debate in a Stalinist way. "Quiet at the back. Be grateful your club is alive. Be too vocal and we shall shoot you down". Depressing.

Yes. :faf:

[RIP Bestie]

Nobody is calling for a ridiculous spending spree to achieve success. Who is? Fans want to see us compete where we should be as a club. Do you agree that we are underachieving as a football club?
We would all like to see us do better on the park, hopefully this will be addressed with the appointment of the new management team. But as far as the Football club as a whole is concerned no I don't think we are underachieving. Our infrastructure, facilities and business model are amongst the best of any club of our size. We have an owner who has not taken a penny from the club but has developed the club and put us on a very sound footing. What more can Sir Tom do but give the Football team all the money that is generated from that side of the business?

[Bronson]

Bronson - don't worry about it, we have a couple of drama queens on the thread, who would not know the first thing about running a business. :rolleyes:

Spot on, just looking for people to blame now that Fenlon has gone I think.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Because you can't. You want to stiffle any debate in a Stalinist way. "Quiet at the back. Be grateful your club is alive. Be too vocal and we shall shoot you down". Depressing.

If you are so upset about STF, why don't you buy the club _he has always said he would sell to people who have the long term interests of the club at heart ?

[DarlingtonHibee]

Spot on, just looking for people to blame now that Fenlon has gone I think.

Nah...They have been drama queens for longer than that :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Spot on, just looking for people to blame now that Fenlon has gone I think.

A man sets of looking for justice, and ends up wanting a crown.

[HibbySpurs]

Too many people forget those blackest days or perhaps are to young to remeber them:confused:

I didnt see the piece on the news (short as it obviously was).... However my take would be that STF was obviously asked in advance if he'd give a comment about the appointment of a new manager to which he must have agreed....

The fact he even took the time to give a one line response on matters he has continually told people he is at arms length from indicates he wants to show he is taking note and he is involved (purely in my opinion of course)......

Doesnt mean he's going to be coming in waving a cheque book around anytime soon or suddenly chairing board meetings at ER..... He has a certain moustachioed gentelman to do that for him....

You think STF doesnt speak to RP about Hibs on a regular basis then your gaga.......

Their plans are in place.... He has built Hibs up from the ashes left by the previous owner.... Maybe the time is nearing when those plans are going to bear fruit....

If the man can start off changing tyres on street corners and build a company like Kwik-Fit from it, I'm still pretty confident he knows what he's doing at Hibs:cb

[MB62]

Fact remains, there would not be a Hibs without him. Or his relative in the past, God bless them both.

Fact is, that is not a fact.

Fact.

[--------]

Too many people forget those blackest days or perhaps are to young to remeber them:confused:

I didnt see the piece on the news (short as it obviously was).... However my take would be that STF was obviously asked in advance if he'd give a comment about the appointment of a new manager to which he must have agreed....

The fact he even took the time to give a one line response on matters he has continually told people he is at arms length from indicates he wants to show he is taking note and he is involved (purely in my opinion of course)......

Doesnt mean he's going to be coming in waving a cheque book around anytime soon or suddenly chairing board meetings at ER..... He has a certain moustachioed gentelman to do that for him....

You think STF doesnt speak to RP about Hibs on a regular basis then your gaga.......

Their plans are in place.... He has built Hibs up from the ashes left by the previous owner.... Maybe the time is nearing when those plans are going to bear fruit....

If the man can start off changing tyres on street corners and build a company like Kwik-Fit from it, I'm still pretty confident he knows what he's doing at Hibs:cb


It's nearly 25 years since he took over. This is what you'd call "long-term planning", right?

Just asking. :wink:

[smurf]

If you are so upset about STF, why don't you buy the club _he has always said he would sell to people who have the long term interests of the club at heart ?

Oh dear... So it continues... Where have I said that I am so upset about Sir Tom Farmer? I think you will find that I have praised his contribution. All I have said that as a business we are underachieving. And therefore I think it is legitimate to question and scrutinise all aspects of the clubs leadership.

[smurf]

Spot on, just looking for people to blame now that Fenlon has gone I think.

Nobody is looking for anyone to blame. Folk are far too defensive IMO. As others have stated it is perhaps too convenient to just attribute our lack of success (or performing to our realistic expectations) at the front door of the team manager. Terry Butcher said himself this week that everyone needs to raise their game. IMO that includes Sir Tom.

[Bronson]

Nobody is looking for anyone to blame. Folk are far too defensive IMO. As others have stated it is perhaps too convenient to just attribute our lack of success (or performing to our realistic expectations) at the front door of the team manager. Terry Butcher said himself this week that everyone needs to raise their game. IMO that includes Sir Tom.

So what do you expect from him exactly?

[Hibbyradge]

Nobody is looking for anyone to blame. Folk are far too defensive IMO. As others have stated it is perhaps too convenient to just attribute our lack of success (or performing to our realistic expectations) at the front door of the team manager. Terry Butcher said himself this week that everyone needs to raise their game. IMO that includes Sir Tom.

STF hasn't got a game to raise and he doesn't want one.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Nobody is looking for anyone to blame. Folk are far too defensive IMO. As others have stated it is perhaps too convenient to just attribute our lack of success (or performing to our realistic expectations) at the front door of the team manager. Terry Butcher said himself this week that everyone needs to raise their game. IMO that includes Sir Tom.

So what can Tom do to meet "our" realistic expectations? Given that we have won five cups in 138 years, two of them during his tenure.

If he has to raise his game, what does he need to do that he is not doing now. Given that he said, right from the start, that he wanted nothing to do with running the club.

[HibbySpurs]

It's nearly 25 years since he took over. This is what you'd call "long-term planning", right?

Just asking. :wink:

Fair enough, but he bought an utter disaster area.....

& I'd call it long, long,long term planning.....:greengrin
:greengrin:greengrin


You know though, he hasnt just chucked money at it to get the club into the reasonably sound state it is, it's been done on a business model which has worked....

Sadly at times (like now) the product on the park has been eye-wateringly bad but I think that even he regognises this cant go on anymore and I'm hopeful that with this latest appointment it's a statement of intent....

We all want Hibs at the top of the Premiership and regurally challenging for trophies.... It's been a horrendously long road but maybe we're going to get there the right way instead of say..... The Hearts way?

[superfurryhibby]

Dear STF,

Can Hibs get the money back that you took from the sale of the old car park please. I know you didn't keep it all n 'that, just that it would come in handy right now.

You can only ask?

Superfanny

[Alfred E Newman]

It's nearly 25 years since he took over. This is what you'd call "long-term planning", right?

Just asking. :wink:

It's 25 years we wouldn't have had.
We have had a grim few years caused largely by poor management and a seemingly poor scouting system . Any good young talent that have managed to make it through the system since the Mowbray days have been stiffled at the expense of 3rd rate signings.
How can that be blamed on Tom Farmer?

[Alfred E Newman]

Spot on, just looking for people to blame now that Fenlon has gone I think.

I said more or less the same and was crucified for it! :agree:

[hibees 7062]

Id hate to think where we would be now if he had said f,it and sold out to the windae guy :rolleyes:

[RIP Bestie]

Unfortunately with such hysterical responses it is almost impossible to have a reasoned debate about our ownership. The question you ask is so ridiculous it doesn't warrant a reply.
You have now heard some reasoned points as to why it is folly to question Sir Toms ownership of the club since you posted this reply, but I am at a loss to see what contribution you have made to the debate. It is impossible to have a reasoned debate if those on the opposition don't put forward any sort of reasoned input. "STF needs to raise his game" or words to that effect, don't qualify as such in my opinion

[Golden Bear]

Thank you Sir Tom - without your input, we wouldn't be having this discussion and there would be no such thing as Hibs Net to facilitate it.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You have now heard some reasoned points as to why it is folly to question Sir Toms ownership of the club since you posted this reply, but I am at a loss to see what contribution you have made to the debate. It is impossible to have a reasoned debate if those on the opposition don't put forward any sort of reasoned input. "STF needs to raise his game" or words to that effect, don't qualify as such in my opinion

:agree:


Thank you Sir Tom - without your input, we wouldn't be having this discussion and there would be no such thing as Hibs Net to facilitate it.

Stalinist!

[Pretty Boy]

If STFs 'long term plan' was and is to ensure that the community of Leith has a self sufficient, sustainable football team that will continue to exist in good times and bad then he has been massively successful.

2 major trophies, a few European jaunts and many other semi finals and finals under his tenure isn't a bad return either and stands up to scrutiny against any other (non OF) club in the time he has been owner.*

*Trophies paid for with a maxed out Eastern European credit card don't count.

[Golden Bear]

:agree:



Stalinist!

:not worth

:greengrin

[hibee_nation]

Stalin or Rod, who had the better tache.

[EVENTUALLY]

I hope we pick up big style and in a perfect world arrive at Tynie in March or thereabouts with the opportunity of nailing their coffin to the Championship early doors and have a massive singing and dancing party with a renouncing chorus of "There is only one Tom Farmer" just to rub in what we have and appreciate as opposed to the money laundering charity thief that they deserved. Let them hear it....abolutely no response g'teed.

STF is a good and kindly man who is worthy of a very special place in the history of our wonderful club.

[--------]

Fair enough, but he bought an utter disaster area.....

& I'd call it long, long,long term planning.....:greengrin
:greengrin:greengrin


You know though, he hasnt just chucked money at it to get the club into the reasonably sound state it is, it's been done on a business model which has worked....

Sadly at times (like now) the product on the park has been eye-wateringly bad but I think that even he regognises this cant go on anymore and I'm hopeful that with this latest appointment it's a statement of intent....

We all want Hibs at the top of the Premiership and regurally challenging for trophies.... It's been a horrendously long road but maybe we're going to get there the right way instead of say..... The Hearts way?

We're talking about nearly a quarter of a century since Farmer bought the club. It's as if the football team was put on the back burner for all or much of that time.


Thank you Sir Tom - without your input, we wouldn't be having this discussion and there would be no such thing as Hibs Net to facilitate it.

I'm not aware of anyone denying that he was our white knight at the time, but I'd like to think he bought the club to run it as a football club, not just to preserve a piece of Edinburgh history.

Hibs aren't - or shouldn't be - a museum piece, but at times that's exactly what it's looked like.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Stalin or Rod, who had the better tache.

Clearly, I'm going to follow the party line on this one. Rod of course, I also admire his agricultural reforms and the strong way he had dealt with traitors like Trotsky. Never Hibs class FACT.

[--------]

Amateurs boith.

THIS is a moustache.

http://www.slxs.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Merv_Hughes.jpg

[RIP Bestie]

We're talking about nearly a quarter of a century since Farmer bought the club. It's as if the football team was put on the back burner for all or much of that time.



I'm not aware of anyone denying that he was our white knight at the time, but I'd like to think he bought the club to run it as a football club, not just to preserve a piece of Edinburgh history.

Hibs aren't - or shouldn't be - a museum piece, but at times that's exactly what it's looked like.
In that time we have seen the likes of Wright, Jackson, McAllister, O'Neill, McGinlay (return) Sauzee, Latapy, Zitelli and Mixu brought to the club. This was at a time when there was a lot of money being pumped into the game by Sky. We have won two cups in that time and although it doesn't sound much when you take it as a percentage of the honours we have won in our history, it's not a bad return. I agree that we are not seeing the same quality of player being brought to the club nowadays but that's a reflection of the money that's in the Scottish game now. It's definitely nothing to do with Sir Tom having no interest in the football side of things or wanting to turn the club into a museum piece. It is hardly the fault of Sir Tom that the money available to Scottish football from outside businesses has dried up, yet he still makes every penny generated by the football side of the club available to the football side. We are still seeing a massive investment in the playing side which is greater than any other team in Scotland outside of Celtic or Rangers. It is hardly the fault of Sir Tom that the manager of the playing side has not invested those funds wisely.

[Kaiser1962]

Dear STF,

Can Hibs get the money back that you took from the sale of the old car park please. I know you didn't keep it all n 'that, just that it would come in handy right now.

You can only ask?

Superfanny

:fishin:

Good try. Nearly bit :wink:

[The Modfather]

In that time we have seen the likes of Wright, Jackson, McAllister, O'Neill, McGinlay (return) Sauzee, Latapy, Zitelli and Mixu brought to the club. This was at a time when there was a lot of money being pumped into the game by Sky. We have won two cups in that time and although it doesn't sound much when you take it as a percentage of the honours we have won in our history, it's vnot a bad return. I agree that we are not seeing the same quality of player being brought to the club nowadays but that's a reflection of the money that's in the Scottish game now. It's definitely nothing to do with Sir Tom having no interest in the football side of things or wanting to turn the club into a museum piece. It is hardly the fault of Sir Tom that the money available to Scottish football from outside businesses has dried up, yet he still makes every penny generated by the football side of the club available to the football side. We are still seeing a massive investment in the playing side which is greater than any other team in Scotland outside of Celtic or Rangers. It is hardly the fault of Sir Tom that the manager of the playing side has not invested those funds wisely.

Can you, or anyone, show me posts asking for Farmer to pour more money into the club? By and large, that's simply not the case, and nor should he have to put any more in.

My opinion is that he is letting the club down by not taking more of an interest in how we are performing and how we are utilising the money we make. The, apparent, lack of accountability at Hibs and the apparent free reign for Petrie is not healthy IMO. While he publicly says "100 Rod Petrie's" I definitely hope the turnover of managers, finances squandered, league placings, and a culture that specifically required eradicating is being addressed, and is not going unnoticed. That Farmer is not so detached that all he sees is a great stadium and training centre when that is only part of the bigger picture.

[RIP Bestie]

Can you, or anyone, show me posts asking for Farmer to pour more money into the club? By and large, that's simply not the case, and nor should he have to put any more in.

My opinion is that he is letting the club down by not taking more of an interest in how we are performing and how we are utilising the money we make. The, apparent, lack of accountability at Hibs and the apparent free reign for Petrie is not healthy IMO. While he publicly says "100 Rod Petrie's" I definitely hope the turnover of managers, finances squandered, league placings, and a culture that specifically required eradicating is being addressed, and is not going unnoticed. That Farmer is not so detached that all he sees is a great stadium and training centre when that is only part of the bigger picture.
I think to call into question Sir Toms business acumen and interest is a bit rich. He has put people in charge who he trusts to look after the running of the football club and to safeguard its future. To think that he would not be questioning decisions made by Petrie or anyone else at the club is folly in my opinion. Take a look through a lot of the threads on this site and there are far reaching opinions on Petries qualities and judgement. The fact is that he is someone Sir Tom trusts fully and the answers Pertie is giving him he is obviously accepting. We can have our own opinions as to whether he is right or wrong to accept them but in the cold light of day that is immaterial. If Sir Tom felt Petrie was underperforming I have no doubt his head would roll. I do not believe for one minute that Sir Tom is not taking an interest and if you can prove to the contrary, I would love to hear it. And as for letting the club down? Never in a million years. No disrespect and I really don't want to sound patronising but you would have been about 5 when Sir Tom saved us and therefore would not have understood the passion,fear and ultimate relief that was felt by every Hibs fan at that time. I have not said that this is about putting more money in, I am merely pointing out that Sir Tom has kept up his promise to the Hibs fans year in year out.

[smurf]

Can you, or anyone, show me posts asking for Farmer to pour more money into the club? By and large, that's simply not the case, and nor should he have to put any more in.

My opinion is that he is letting the club down by not taking more of an interest in how we are performing and how we are utilising the money we make. The, apparent, lack of accountability at Hibs and the apparent free reign for Petrie is not healthy IMO. While he publicly says "100 Rod Petrie's" I definitely hope the turnover of managers, finances squandered, league placings, and a culture that specifically required eradicating is being addressed, and is not going unnoticed. That Farmer is not so detached that all he sees is a great stadium and training centre when that is only part of the bigger picture.

You've no chance. It's impossible to have a reasoned sensible debate about our ownership without being met with hysteria. To attempt to debate it means you must want an utter orgy of spending money we don't have etc etc. At some point Hibernian FC will have to live without Sir Tom Farmer. Going by the hysteria on that day we will be doomed.

[RIP Bestie]

You've no chance. It's impossible to have a reasoned sensible debate about our ownership without being met with hysteria. To attempt to debate it means you must want an utter orgy of spending money we don't have etc etc. At some point Hibernian FC will have to live without Sir Tom Farmer. Going by the hysteria on that day we will be doomed.
As I said before, more than happy to gear your side of a reasoned sensible debate. Pity you don't want to give it

[Eyrie]

The key issue is not about spending money we don't have but about spending the money we do have better. Other than Septic, Huns RIP and the financially doped poppy thieves, no club in the SPL has spent more on its playing staff than we have in recent seasons. The recurring problem is that successive managers have signed players who weren't good enough and needed to be moved on, so allowing those managers to spend more money would not have improved our results over the last few years.

Marsella comes with a good reputation for spotting a player, so we should now expect a decent return on our spending.

[RIP Bestie]

The key issue is not about spending money we don't have but about spending the money we do have better. Other than Septic, Huns RIP and the financially doped poppy thieves, no club in the SPL has spent more on its playing staff than we have in recent seasons. The recurring problem is that successive managers have signed players who weren't good enough and needed to be moved on, so allowing those managers to spend more money would not have improved our results over the last few years.

Marsella comes with a good reputation for spotting a player, so we should now expect a decent return on our spending.
I get that. There is no debating that. Problem is that the same expectation was put on the previous incumbents of those positions. Each of those appointments was made in good faith and without the benefit of hindsight. All the previous appointments brought with them skills and experience that was thought to be required at the time.
The debate is about what more Sir Tom can do to "show interest" or "up his game" or phrases to that effect. My point is that he has done everything he promised he would do and that we as a Hibs support accepted was good enough when he bought us. To ask anything more of him now is like you going to a bank, borrowing £10k and agreeing with the bank that you would pay it over 10 years at a rate of 2 percent only for the bank to come back to you a couple of years later and tell you that they want you to raise your interest to 15 percent as they don't think your paying enough.

[Hibbyradge]

The, apparent, lack of accountability at Hibs and the apparent free reign for Petrie

Eh?

You just made that up.

[Phil D. Rolls]

You've no chance. It's impossible to have a reasoned sensible debate about our ownership without being met with hysteria. To attempt to debate it means you must want an utter orgy of spending money we don't have etc etc. At some point Hibernian FC will have to live without Sir Tom Farmer. Going by the hysteria on that day we will be doomed.

11322

Why, how, what can we do different?

:hmmm:

[NAE NOOKIE]

I get that. There is no debating that. Problem is that the same expectation was put on the previous incumbents of those positions. Each of those appointments was made in good faith and without the benefit of hindsight. All the previous appointments brought with them skills and experience that was thought to be required at the time.
The debate is about what more Sir Tom can do to "show interest" or "up his game" or phrases to that effect. My point is that he has done everything he promised he would do and that we as a Hibs support accepted was good enough when he bought us. To ask anything more of him now is like you going to a bank, borrowing £10k and agreeing with the bank that you would pay it over 10 years at a rate of 2 percent only for the bank to come back to you a couple of years later and tell you that they want you to raise your interest to 15 percent as they don't think your paying enough.


Totally correct STF did everything he promised. He has ensured that Hibs have continued on a fianancial even keel and he never promised anything else, especially on the pitch, though it may have been an aim to improve the infrastructure.

Of course the support accepted his involvement was "good enough" at the time. There was no reason to doubt the man as his reputation was one of honesty and philanthropy .... just the man you want when you are vulnerable and in the doo doo. Tom Farmer's aim was to save Hibs for the community of Leith and Edinburgh and he did that.

But it is at this juncture that there seems to be a split in the support:

On the one side there is the part of the support to whom what STF did at the start of the 90s makes him untouchable. Who feel that as far as it goes we are at a stage where as long as Hibs continue to chug along treading water then that is where we need to be and any deviation from that is scary territory which could lead the club to disaster.

On the other side there are those of us who think that if it was and is the aim of STF to keep Hibs around and that is the limit of his vision for the club then for us that is showing a lack of the sort of ambition the club needs to be a success on the park. For my part I dont agree that a change of owner would be the disaster some people think it could be and I also dont agree that if a concerted effort had been made over the last 20 years to find a suitable new owner that one couldnt have been found.

[Phil D. Rolls]

[/B]Totally correct STF did everything he promised. He has ensured that Hibs have continued on a fianancial even keel and he never promised anything else, especially on the pitch, though it may have been an aim to improve the infrastructure.

Of course the support accepted his involvement was "good enough" at the time. There was no reason to doubt the man as his reputation was one of honesty and philanthropy .... just the man you want when you are vulnerable and in the doo doo. Tom Farmer's aim was to save Hibs for the community of Leith and Edinburgh and he did that.

But it is at this juncture that there seems to be a split in the support:

On the one side there is the part of the support to whom what STF did at the start of the 90s makes him untouchable. Who feel that as far as it goes we are at a stage where as long as Hibs continue to chug along treading water then that is where we need to be and any deviation from that is scary territory which could lead the club to disaster.

On the other side there are those of us who think that if it was and is the aim of STF to keep Hibs around and that is the limit of his vision for the club then for us that is showing a lack of the sort of ambition the club needs to be a success on the park. For my part I dont agree that a change of owner would be the disaster some people think it could be and I also dont agree that if a concerted effort had been made over the last 20 years to find a suitable new owner that one couldnt have been found.

The only serious enquiry seems to have come from Brian Kennedy.

[lapsedhibee]

Totally correct STF did everything he promised. He has ensured that Hibs have continued on a fianancial even keel and he never promised anything else, especially on the pitch, though it may have been an aim to improve the infrastructure.

Of course the support accepted his involvement was "good enough" at the time. There was no reason to doubt the man as his reputation was one of honesty and philanthropy .... just the man you want when you are vulnerable and in the doo doo. Tom Farmer's aim was to save Hibs for the community of Leith and Edinburgh and he did that.

Totally off topic but I do not in any way associate Kwik Fit with honesty.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Totally off topic but I do not in any way associate Kwik Fit with honesty.

I don't know, I asked them for a new pair of reading spectacles, and they said "you'll need to go to n opticians". Can't say fairer than that!

[RIP Bestie]

[/B]Totally correct STF did everything he promised. He has ensured that Hibs have continued on a fianancial even keel and he never promised anything else, especially on the pitch, though it may have been an aim to improve the infrastructure.

Of course the support accepted his involvement was "good enough" at the time. There was no reason to doubt the man as his reputation was one of honesty and philanthropy .... just the man you want when you are vulnerable and in the doo doo. Tom Farmer's aim was to save Hibs for the community of Leith and Edinburgh and he did that.

But it is at this juncture that there seems to be a split in the support:

On the one side there is the part of the support to whom what STF did at the start of the 90s makes him untouchable. Who feel that as far as it goes we are at a stage where as long as Hibs continue to chug along treading water then that is where we need to be and any deviation from that is scary territory which could lead the club to disaster.

On the other side there are those of us who think that if it was and is the aim of STF to keep Hibs around and that is the limit of his vision for the club then for us that is showing a lack of the sort of ambition the club needs to be a success on the park. For my part I dont agree that a change of owner would be the disaster some people think it could be and I also dont agree that if a concerted effort had been made over the last 20 years to find a suitable new owner that one couldnt have been found.
Great post Bovril and I agree with everything you have said. However if we have to go looking for that elusive new owner, are they necessarily the right person for the club. I'm sure Sir Tom has had enquiries about the clubs availability and I imagine he has knocked back some offers.
The debate is probably about whether Sir Tom should sell up, if it's going to be the best thing for the club I would support that 100 percent. If not then I am happy with Sir Toms stewardship to continue for as long as it takes and I will be content to accept what he is already doing for the club. Let's not forget that in terms of financing the football side of things our manager is supported more than any other manager in the league, Lennon excepted. I don't see that as chugging along but agree questions needed to be asked of the people who invested those funds in mediocre players. Fortunately those responsible have been moved on and we hope that this will change with the appointment of the new manager.

[Betty Boop]

Yes. :faf:

Filled Rolls is a Stalinist ! :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

[/B]Totally correct STF did everything he promised. He has ensured that Hibs have continued on a fianancial even keel and he never promised anything else, especially on the pitch, though it may have been an aim to improve the infrastructure.

Of course the support accepted his involvement was "good enough" at the time. There was no reason to doubt the man as his reputation was one of honesty and philanthropy .... just the man you want when you are vulnerable and in the doo doo. Tom Farmer's aim was to save Hibs for the community of Leith and Edinburgh and he did that.

But it is at this juncture that there seems to be a split in the support:

On the one side there is the part of the support to whom what STF did at the start of the 90s makes him untouchable. Who feel that as far as it goes we are at a stage where as long as Hibs continue to chug along treading water then that is where we need to be and any deviation from that is scary territory which could lead the club to disaster.

On the other side there are those of us who think that if it was and is the aim of STF to keep Hibs around and that is the limit of his vision for the club then for us that is showing a lack of the sort of ambition the club needs to be a success on the park. For my part I dont agree that a change of owner would be the disaster some people think it could be and I also dont agree that if a concerted effort had been made over the last 20 years to find a suitable new owner that one couldnt have been found.


Great post Bovril and I agree with everything you have said. However if we have to go looking for that elusive new owner, are they necessarily the right person for the club. I'm sure Sir Tom has had enquiries about the clubs availability and I imagine he has knocked back some offers.
The debate is probably about whether Sir Tom should sell up, if it's going to be the best thing for the club I would support that 100 percent. If not then I am happy with Sir Toms stewardship to continue for as long as it takes and I will be content to accept what he is already doing for the club. Let's not forget that in terms of financing the football side of things our manager is supported more than any other manager in the league, Lennon excepted. I don't see that as chugging along but agree questions needed to be asked of the people who invested those funds in mediocre players. Fortunately those responsible have been moved on and we hope that this will change with the appointment of the new manager.

What do you want from a new owner that we don't already get from Tom Farmer?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Filled Rolls is a Stalinist ! :greengrin

Quiet at the back, the proletarian revolution will not be stopped. All power to the Soviets! The lickspittle running dogs of the reaction must be silenced using all democratic means available.

[Betty Boop]

Quiet at the back, the proletarian revolution will not be stopped. All power to the Soviets! The lickspittle running dogs of the reaction must be silenced using all democratic means available.

Such a great word ! :wink:

[The Modfather]

I think to call into question Sir Toms business acumen and interest is a bit rich. He has put people in charge who he trusts to look after the running of the football club and to safeguard its future. To think that he would not be questioning decisions made by Petrie or anyone else at the club is folly in my opinion. Take a look through a lot of the threads on this site and there are far reaching opinions on Petries qualities and judgement. The fact is that he is someone Sir Tom trusts fully and the answers Pertie is giving him he is obviously accepting. We can have our own opinions as to whether he is right or wrong to accept them but in the cold light of day that is immaterial. If Sir Tom felt Petrie was underperforming I have no doubt his head would roll. I do not believe for one minute that Sir Tom is not taking an interest and if you can prove to the contrary, I would love to hear it. And as for letting the club down? Never in a million years. No disrespect and I really don't want to sound patronising but you would have been about 5 when Sir Tom saved us and therefore would not have understood the passion,fear and ultimate relief that was felt by every Hibs fan at that time. I have not said that this is about putting more money in, I am merely pointing out that Sir Tom has kept up his promise to the Hibs fans year in year out.

I'm not quite sure that I did call Farmers acumen into question, it's his interest I am debating. The two are linked in my eyes, if he was taking more of an interest his business acumen very may well have had us on a different trajectory than we have been on in the last 6 years or so.

I doubt Farmer knows how to service a car or perform the role of mechanic, but I can guarantee that in Kwik Fit or Farmers Autocare he is/was able to identify garages within the business not up to the task. The same way that with a little more interest the last 6 years he could identify that the internal structure of the club, the business plan and the deliverables of each/certain departments weren't working. As an example he doesn't have to be a football scout to see that it was an area not performing and either heads needed to roll or a change to the way things were being done. All he had to do was have a look, time not money.

I remember reading an analogy many moons ago that I thought was very apt for this subject: "If you adopt a child you're responsibilities don't end there".

[RIP Bestie]

What do you want from a new owner that we don't already get from Tom Farmer?
The only thing would be serious investment in players to compete at the top of the league with Celtic and qualify for group stages of European competitions year on year. It's all very well saying that's not what your asking for but ultimately that would be the aim, because the nature of the beast is that you always want that wee bit more.
To get that would in my opinion put the club in jeopardy, which is the last thing I would want. I really don't get what more Sir Tom can do. The only other thing that I can think of is that in future we try to hold on to our young players for as long as we possibly can. In these days of freedom of contract and agents that's impossible.
I honestly don't think there is anyone out there who is better for us than Sir Tom however if there was I'm sure Sir Tom would gladly step aside.

[RIP Bestie]

I'm not quite sure that I did call Farmers acumen into question, it's his interest I am debating. The two are linked in my eyes, if he was taking more of an interest his business acumen very may well have had us on a different trajectory than we have been on in the last 6 years or so.

I doubt Farmer knows how to service a car or perform the role of mechanic, but I can guarantee that in Kwik Fit or Farmers Autocare he is/was able to identify garages within the business not up to the task. The same way that with a little more interest the last 6 years he could identify that the internal structure of the club, the business plan and the deliverables of each/certain departments weren't working. As an example he doesn't have to be a football scout to see that it was an area not performing and either heads needed to roll or a change to the way things were being done. All he had to do was have a look, time not money.

I remember reading an analogy many moons ago that I thought was very apt for this subject: "If you adopt a child you're responsibilities don't end there".
Have those failings not been addressed?

[The Modfather]

Eh?

You just made that up.

Petrie has under delivered on the paying side of the business this last 6 years, I don't think anyone can seriously argue against that. When questions were asked about Petrie's performance at the AGM before last the response from Farmer was "100 Rod Petrie's".

Now I understand he can't stand there and slate him, there has to be degrees of constructive criticism/backing, but that answer suggests to me that Petrie is accountable for very little. It's always someone else's fault - "unworkable legacies", or "right managers at the time".

I'd have liked for Farmer to answer the question something akin to: "I'm fully aware of the clubs underachievements and short comings, and it's something I am looking to rectify. Not all areas have been delivering what I expect, nay demand, for this club, however with Petrie in charge I have every faith the club can reverse the decline it has been on"

[The Modfather]

Have those failings not been addressed?

I think we have started to address some of the failings, but as yet the jury is still out until we begin to see some tangibles.

My issue is that, to me, it appears we are addressing the failings as a result of critical underachievement and no other option, rather than by design or any real plan.

[The Modfather]

What do you want from a new owner that we don't already get from Tom Farmer?

An active interest.

[RIP Bestie]

Petrie has under delivered on the paying side of the business this last 6 years, I don't think anyone can seriously argue against that. When questions were asked about Petrie's performance at the AGM before last the response from Farmer was "100 Rod Petrie's".

Now I understand he can't stand there and slate him, there has to be degrees of constructive criticism/backing, but that answer suggests to me that Petrie is accountable for very little. It's always someone else's fault - "unworkable legacies", or "right managers at the time".

I'd have liked for Farmer to answer the question something akin to: "I'm fully aware of the clubs underachievements and short comings, and it's something I am looking to rectify. Not all areas have been delivering what I expect, nay demand, for this club, however with Petrie in charge I have every faith the club can reverse the decline it has been on"
So you can call him a liar?
Where exactly has Petrie underachieved? Are you privy to the conversations that Sir Tom has with Petrie? You mentioned in a previous post that you had no doubt Sir Tom would take action against under achievers at any of his other investments. What makes you think he's not doing that here?

[hibsbollah]

The key issue is not about spending money we don't have but about spending the money we do have better.

:top marks At last. Someone spotted a gap between two logical fallacies.

[stoneyburn hibs]

An active interest.

Would him having an active interest amount to anymore success on the pitch, i dont think it would.

For as long as the man wants to be involved with Hibs, then that will do for me. Hope it is for a long time yet.

[RIP Bestie]

I think we have started to address some of the failings, but as yet the jury is still out until we begin to see some tangibles.

My issue is that, to me, it appears we are addressing the failings as a result of critical underachievement and no other option, rather than by design or any real plan.
I have no clue what this means. Seems like just a load of business buzzwords stuck together in one statement

[Golden Bear]

I have no clue what this means. Seems like just a load of business buzzwords stuck together in one statement

I think it translates into "crisis management" but I ain't too sure either.

[The Modfather]

So you can call him a liar?
Where exactly has Petrie underachieved? Are you privy to the conversations that Sir Tom has with Petrie? You mentioned in a previous post that you had no doubt Sir Tom would take action against under achievers at any of his other investments. What makes you think he's not doing that here?

My quote was "Petrie has under delivered on the paying side of the business this last 6 years, I don't think anyone can seriously argue against that.". Are you arguing that is not the case?

As to your second sentence, I don't believe Farmer is close enough to the business, in the way he was at Kwik Fit for example, to know specifically what/who is or isn't working. I also believe that Petrie is Farmers blind spot when that is the one constant that hasn't changed throughout our decline.

[The Modfather]

I have no clue what this means. Seems like just a load of business buzzwords stuck together in one statement

Put another way, we are reactive rather than proactive.

[RIP Bestie]

My quote was "Petrie has under delivered on the paying side of the business this last 6 years, I don't think anyone can seriously argue against that.". Are you arguing that is not the case?

As to your second sentence, I don't believe Farmer is close enough to the business, in the way he was at Kwik Fit for example, to know specifically what/who is or isn't working. I also believe that Petrie is Farmers blind spot when that is the one constant that hasn't changed throughout our decline.
There is no doubt I would argue against that. But to do so I would ask you to elaborate. I have probably explained how I feel he hasn't under achieved in previous posts but am happy to debate any examples of Petries so called underachieving with you. Sir Tom, as I have already pointed out has put his most trusted people in charge at Hibs and I have no doubt that he would be demanding to keep up to date with issues at the club as well as performance figures.

[RIP Bestie]

Put another way, we are reactive rather than proactive.
Just more buzzwords that have no logical meaning in the context of this debate

[stoneyburn hibs]

My quote was "Petrie has under delivered on the paying side of the business this last 6 years, I don't think anyone can seriously argue against that.". Are you arguing that is not the case?

As to your second sentence, I don't believe Farmer is close enough to the business, in the way he was at Kwik Fit for example, to know specifically what/who is or isn't working. I also believe that Petrie is Farmers blind spot when that is the one constant that hasn't changed throughout our decline.

Regarding Rods last half dozen appointments, apart from one maybe two, the majority of fans approved of them. I personally find it baffling that after most of them failed the heat is on Rod, he appoints them but cant make them manage any better or worse, an easy target and i suppose the appropriate target.

[RIP Bestie]

Regarding Rods last half dozen appointments, apart from one maybe two, the majority of fans approved of them. I personally find it baffling that after most of them failed the heat is on Rod, he appoints them but cant make them manage any better or worse, an easy target and i suppose the appropriate target.
Cheers SH

[The Modfather]

There is no doubt I would argue against that. But to do so I would ask you to elaborate. I have probably explained how I feel he hasn't under achieved in previous posts but am happy to debate any examples of Petries so called underachieving with you. Sir Tom, as I have already pointed out has put his most trusted people in charge at Hibs and I have no doubt that he would be demanding to keep up to date with issues at the club as well as performance figures.

Our conversation is starting to drag on a little bit with no real progress, we seem to be at cross wires at times. So to summarise:

Can you argue that the on field footballing side of the business under the last 6 years of Petrie's stewardship is acceptable and defendable? If I've picked you up correctly I'd genuinely be keen to hear the case for the defence.

"Reactive, not pro active" - as an example it took the 5-1 cup final to force a change in culture ("New summer new Hibs" etc) when it had been evident to a lot of the fans that for a good few years previous we had a problem with a lot of aspects within the playing side (fitness, attitude, professionalism etc) despite numerous players coming and going. Yet rather than do anything to actually address this it took the cup final for us to react. Hence an example of my "reactive, not pro active comment".

[Kaff]

I would maybe draw a comparison with us to Blackburn Rovers. Their owner put a lot of money into the team and with the obvious success of winning the EPL in return, with Sky money Hibs invested heavily with McLeish and we had some great times during that time.
For whatever reasons both clubs had to tighten the belt and eventually Blackburn sold out to rich foreign owners with disastrous results so far whereas Hibs have kept on the financially prudent path with Farmer/Petrie. Have there been similar purchase offers for Hibs that they have, thankfully, turned down? If we've got the right management team in place I am sure we can capitalise on our previous prudence and make a real drive to stay at the top of Scottish football. I've a feeling we have but I do know there will be plenty on here moaning the same as when they were during TM days and when we were doing well under JC.
I say hold your nerve and back the club, owners managers the lot

[The Modfather]

Regarding Rods last half dozen appointments, apart from one maybe two, the majority of fans approved of them. I personally find it baffling that after most of them failed the heat is on Rod, he appoints them but cant make them manage any better or worse, an easy target and i suppose the appropriate target.

I don't want to dominate this thread as it's not unbeknown for me to talk crap :greengrin, and also don't want to take the subject off topic - although in my mind Petrie is very relevant in debates about Farmer.

Petrie is there to make the correct managerial appointments, not the popular choices, and as the only constant throughout the last 6 years fingers are naturally beginning to be pointed in his direction.

[RIP Bestie]

Our conversation is starting to drag on a little bit with no real progress, we seem to be at cross wires at times. So to summarise:

Can you argue that the on field footballing side of the business under the last 6 years of Petrie's stewardship is acceptable and defendable? If I've picked you up correctly I'd genuinely be keen to hear the case for the defence.

"Reactive, not pro active" - as an example it took the 5-1 cup final to force a change in culture ("New summer new Hibs" etc) when it had been evident to a lot of the fans that for a good few years previous we had a problem with a lot of aspects within the playing side (fitness, attitude, professionalism etc) despite numerous players coming and going. Yet rather than do anything to actually address this it took the cup final for us to react. Hence an example of my "reactive, not pro active comment".
I think we would all like to see different results on the football park and that there has been an element of disappointment with regards to performances and results. Some of the results have been embarrassing and disgraceful there is no question about that.
i fail to see how the fault for players under performing can be laid at Petries door.. You have yet to give examples of where you feel Petrie has under performed so it is difficult for me to debate that with you.
As for your second point. What would you have liked to have seen done differently? Is it not good that we are embracing change for the good of the club, looking at new ideas and initiatives. Surely that is an example of good stewardship? None of the managers who oversaw and promoted the culture you mention are at the club any longer. If that indeed was the case.

[RIP Bestie]

I don't want to dominate this thread as it's not unbeknown for me to talk crap :greengrin, and also don't want to take the subject off topic - although in my mind Petrie is very relevant in debates about Farmer.

Petrie is there to make the correct managerial appointments, not the popular choices, and as the only constant throughout the last 6 years fingers are naturally beginning to be pointed in his direction.
Agreed, but when they have not fulfilled what they were supposed to do he has emptied them. He has backed every single managerial appointment to the hilt and unfortunately some did not live up to expectation. The only one that I will hold him accountable for is Calderwood as I think he should have taken any money that was being offered for him at the time. That was a mistake.

[Velma Dinkley]

I don't want to dominate this thread as it's not unbeknown for me to talk crap :greengrin, and also don't want to take the subject off topic - although in my mind Petrie is very relevant in debates about Farmer.

Petrie is there to make the correct managerial appointments, not the popular choices, and as the only constant throughout the last 6 years fingers are naturally beginning to be pointed in his direction.

This is an interesting point. Why don't you consider yourself to be a constant?

[The Modfather]

This is an interesting point. Why don't you consider yourself to be a constant?

Aye, sorry lads. The last 6 years are down to me, my bad :greengrin

How do you mean?

[Velma Dinkley]

Aye, sorry lads. The last 6 years are down to me, my bad :greengrin

How do you mean?

Obviously I never said anything was "down to you." I wondered why you think of yourself as not being a constant. I didn't mean any offence. You could have been supporting another club or in a coma for all I know. No harm intended. It would be refreshing to have a genuine answer to a genuine question on this thread though!

[Velma Dinkley]

Aye, sorry lads. The last 6 years are down to me, my bad :greengrin

How do you mean?

Obviously I never said anything was "down to you." I wondered why you think of yourself as not being a constant. I didn't mean any offence. You could have been supporting another club or in a coma for all I know. No harm intended. It would be refreshing to have a genuine answer to a genuine question on this thread though!

[Jack]

I think if Rod gave those working behind the scenes at ER the same autonomy as STF gives him, or vice versa, things would be very different.

[Hibbyradge]

I think if Rod gave those working behind the scenes at ER the same autonomy as STF gives him, or vice versa, things would be very different.

What do you mean?

[The Modfather]

Obviously I never said anything was "down to you." I wondered why you think of yourself as not being a constant. I didn't mean any offence. You could have been supporting another club or in a coma for all I know. No harm intended. It would be refreshing to have a genuine answer to a genuine question on this thread though!

Sorry, I'm still not sure what you are asking. Do you mean me as a constant as a fan the last 6 years or so?

As a fan all I can do is attend or not attend matches. I have no say in how the club is run.

[Jack]

What do you mean?

Nothing to do with the playing side of things.

I'm led to believe things are micro managed ER.

If STF was the same with Rod nobody would be able to accuse him of not taking an interest as *everything* would would need to go through him!!!!

[RIP Bestie]

Nothing to do with the playing side of things.

I'm led to believe things are micro managed ER.

If STF was the same with Rod nobody would be able to accuse him of not taking an interest as *everything* would would need to go through him!!!!
Why are you so sure they don't?
Do you not think he is having regular meetings with Petrie the same as Petrie has with the manager?

[Hibbyradge]

Nothing to do with the playing side of things.

I'm led to believe things are micro managed ER.



What leads you to that conclusion?

I understood RP had stepped back from the day to day running of the club.

[Jack]

Why are you so sure they don't?
Do you not think he is having regular meetings with Petrie the same as Petrie has with the manager?

Because nothing would get done, or STF would need to be based at ER :-)

[blackpoolhibs]

Regarding Rods last half dozen appointments, apart from one maybe two, the majority of fans approved of them. I personally find it baffling that after most of them failed the heat is on Rod, he appoints them but cant make them manage any better or worse, an easy target and i suppose the appropriate target.

I have never understood that argument, Petrie is there to appoint the right man not appoint who we want?

None of us have any idea who the right person may be, or have the funds or information at hand on Football coaches throughout the game in Britain or indeed worldwide?

We have no idea who applies for the job if its advertised, or may even be interested.

Appointing any new manager surely is not as simple as just appointing who the majority of the fans want?

[Phil D. Rolls]

It seems to me that one constant in all these debates about whether the club is under performing, or not, is that everybody seems to have a different view of where the club should be.

There is no point in saying that Petrie hasn't done his job, if the only job he was given was to keep the club solvent, and in the top division. If you add in improving the infrastructure, then he has met some pretty tough targets.

My question is, what is a realistic target for the club? Is it based on the glory years of Harry Swann, or just about every other era in the clubs history?

Until we establish what our goals are/were we can't say whether they have been achieved.

PERSONALLY, I see continuation in the top division. Cup semi finals, and finals as being what Hibs should have as a minimum. Those of you wanting the glory days in Europe, forget it, it's not going to happen - you might as well be complaining that Easter Road isn't a patch on playing at the Meadows, and that cup semis should be played at Powburn, or Logie Green.

That's all gone. Likewise the premise that big city clubs can dominate the league in the way they used to. Sad though it is, teams like St Johnstone, ICT, and the Arabs can compete just as effectively. What hey lose in revenue from fans, they make up for in lower running costs.

Hate to mention the Yams, but if you want an example of how badly wrong speculating to accumulate can go wrong, just look at them. The only other club of comparable size to us is The Sheep - they last won a trophy in (?), and their debt is (?), and they are moving to a new stadium in (?).

So, when we set objectives as fans, we should be sensible enough to set achievable ones. That's the business argument. On the park, it would be nice to have something to cheer about soon, but to say we are at some sort of nadir in terms of the footballing performance is just wrong.

My one major criticism of recent strategy is East Mains, performances on the field have gotten worse, and we seem to have brought through less youngsters since it opened.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Because nothing would get done, or STF would need to be based at ER :-)

I was in a branch of Farmer, the guy went to answer the phone. It went dead when he picked it up. The guy told me that it was the boss checking that calls get answered quickly enough.

Apparently STF thinks you can run a successful business using the telephone.

[Onion]

Regarding Rods last half dozen appointments, apart from one maybe two, the majority of fans approved of them. I personally find it baffling that after most of them failed the heat is on Rod, he appoints them but cant make them manage any better or worse, an easy target and i suppose the appropriate target.

We should just cut out the middle man, go straight to the phone vote, and treat it like a game show :roll eyes:

[RIP Bestie]

I have never understood that argument, Petrie is there to appoint the right man not appoint who we want?

None of us have any idea who the right person may be, or have the funds or information at hand on Football coaches throughout the game in Britain or indeed worldwide?

We have no idea who applies for the job if its advertised, or may even be interested.

Appointing any new manager surely is not as simple as just appointing who the majority of the fans want?
Yeah I totally understand that, but it does seem with snippets of information that are coming out that Rod didn't take these decisions lightly. Advice was sought from a variety of people within the game on the qualities and suitability of the candidates. We may not agree with who he asked or in hindsight who he appointed but in my opinion it looks like he did all that he could to make the right appointments. I take your point that the fans can look at someone and say that's the one they want without knowing if they are the best candidate. I have used that argument in the past and realise there is no substance to that. I do believe however that Rod has not been swayed by fan power.

[Velma Dinkley]

Sorry, I'm still not sure what you are asking. Do you mean me as a constant as a fan the last 6 years or so?

As a fan all I can do is attend or not attend matches. I have no say in how the club is run.

As fans we put money into the club or don't put money into the club, we applaud the team or boo the team, we shout words of encouragement to players or shout abuse at them, we back the manager or we call for their head, we talk positively about our club or talk negatively about it. Even Fenlon said he decided to leave because he felt that as long as he remained manager there were some fans who were going to be negative about the club no matter what he did. Surely as fans we have a huge say in how the club is run. I'm not having a go at anyone. I just find it interesting that some people don't think the fans play an important role.

[blackpoolhibs]

It seems to me that one constant in all these debates about whether the club is under performing, or not, is that everybody seems to have a different view of where the club should be.

There is no point in saying that Petrie hasn't done his job, if the only job he was given was to keep the club solvent, and in the top division. If you add in improving the infrastructure, then he has met some pretty tough targets.

My question is, what is a realistic target for the club? Is it based on the glory years of Harry Swann, or just about every other era in the clubs history?

Until we establish what our goals are/were we can't say whether they have been achieved.

PERSONALLY, I see continuation in the top division. Cup semi finals, and finals as being what Hibs should have as a minimum. Those of you wanting the glory days in Europe, forget it, it's not going to happen - you might as well be complaining that Easter Road isn't a patch on playing at the Meadows, and that cup semis should be played at Powburn, or Logie Green.

That's all gone. Likewise the premise that big city clubs can dominate the league in the way they used to. Sad though it is, teams like St Johnstone, ICT, and the Arabs can compete just as effectively. What hey lose in revenue from fans, they make up for in lower running costs.

Hate to mention the Yams, but if you want an example of how badly wrong speculating to accumulate can go wrong, just look at them. The only other club of comparable size to us is The Sheep - they last won a trophy in (?), and their debt is (?), and they are moving to a new stadium in (?).

So, when we set objectives as fans, we should be sensible enough to set achievable ones. That's the business argument. On the park, it would be nice to have something to cheer about soon, but to say we are at some sort of nadir in terms of the footballing performance is just wrong.

My one major criticism of recent strategy is East Mains, performances on the field have gotten worse, and we seem to have brought through less youngsters since it opened.

I think this is the crux of the debate, some folk it appears seem happy that we just exist, i personally am not.

The main point of any football club is to be successful on the pitch with the funds it has available.

I think the minimum we should be achieving now, the way funds are and the state of football in Scotland in general is a fight for European football through our league position.

For crowds to improve, this is the minimum requirement. Cup competitions are a lottery, as the wrong draw away can result in a defeat, but even they are seeded these days in the League cup so a quarter final should be reached most years in that.

6th place is a fail in my book, there's some sort of false sense of achievement if you manage to scrape into it these days, thats nonsense. Its something we should demand, not celebrate.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I think this is the crux of the debate, some folk it appears seem happy that we just exist, i personally am not.

The main point of any football club is to be successful on the pitch with the funds it has available.

I think the minimum we should be achieving now, the way funds are and the state of football in Scotland in general is a fight for European football through our league position.

For crowds to improve, this is the minimum requirement. Cup competitions are a lottery, as the wrong draw away can result in a defeat, but even they are seeded these days in the League cup so a quarter final should be reached most years in that.

6th place is a fail in my book, there's some sort of false sense of achievement if you manage to scrape into it these days, thats nonsense. Its something we should demand, not celebrate.

At the end of the day, the books don't balance, and the facilities mean nothing if people don't go. So I guess it's a case of keeping the majority of the support happy the majority of the time.

The way I'm looking at it, it has to be close to tipping point. Who can say they're having any fun going to games anymore?

[Hibbyradge]

I was in a branch of Farmer, the guy went to answer the phone. It went dead when he picked it up. The guy told me that it was the boss checking that calls get answered quickly enough.

Apparently STF thinks you can run a successful business using the telephone.

That's not worthy of you, FR.

The only thing apparent in your anecdote, is either that STF uses a telephone to check how quickly calls to his workshops are being answered (how else could he do that, btw?) or that the guy is paranoid.

Frankly, I think the latter is more likely anyway. Is the manager supposed to break off from a conversation with another customer in order to answer a call within a few rings? That would be shockingly rude.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I didnt get the chance to finish my last post coz literally ... ma tea was oot :greengrin

Why are Hibs not an attractive opportunity for any prospective new owner?

In 99% of cases buying a football club is a vanity project as there is little or no profit to be made, for most of them its about the profile and cudos they can gain from being part of a successful ventue. There are as many billionairs and cash rich businesses out there now as there was before the global meltdown. Not all of them crooks either.

There is not the same entry to the elite from involvement with Hibs as there is from buying an EPL club or an NFL franchise for instance. But, there is a pathway to fame and glory which could go worldwide and its simply this:

Any, but any, club which can break the OF monopoly of Scottish football would make headlines around Europe and the larger football community. I remember articles being printed in some European football magazines etc when the Yams were doing well in Burley's time there, and that was just because they looked like doing something .... the utterances of the looney owner did add fuel to that fire I admit.

With Hibs as they stand now most of the parts of the jigsaw are already in place to mount a challenge. A ground which even if on a smaller scale is a match for anything in the UK. The potential to reach home crowds of between 14 and 16 thousand on a regular basis and the potential to play European football on a regular basis.

Given what could be done with an investment of peanuts compared to what would be required in Europe's major leagues I think that somewhere out there theres a business or individual who is missing out on a major opportunity and I think the club should be sold as that.

[Phil D. Rolls]

That's not worthy of you, FR.

The only thing apparent in your anecdote, is either that STF uses a telephone to check how quickly calls to his workshops are being answered (how else could he do that, btw?) or that the guy is paranoid.

Frankly, I think the latter is more likely anyway. Is the manager supposed to break off from a conversation with another customer in order to answer a call within a few rings? That would be shockingly rude.

I can only present the facts that I see. I was suggesting that by use of the phone, a successful businessman can micro manage a company without being on site, in person.

FWIW I enjoyed a complimentary Cappucino whilst my new tyres were fitted, leading to a customer satisfaction rating of 9/10. If a biscotti had been included it would have been 10 - hope you're reading this Tom.

[Hibbyradge]

I can only present the facts that I see. I was suggesting that by use of the phone, a successful businessman can micro manage a company without being on site, in person.



This is indeed true. Video conferencing, Skype and email are other ways to micro-manage in absentia, but I still think your fitter has been a long term cannabis user. :paranoid:


I can only present the facts that I see. I was suggesting that by use of the phone, a successful businessman can micro manage a company without being on site, in person.

FWIW I enjoyed a complimentary Cappucino whilst my new tyres were fitted, leading to a customer satisfaction rating of 9/10. If a biscotti had been included it would have been 10 - hope you're reading this Tom.

Net promoter Score metrics show that you'll never get a biscuit if you keep giving 9/10's.

Promoters (score 9-10) are loyal enthusiasts who will keep buying and refer others, fueling growth.

Passives (score 7-8) are satisfied but unenthusiastic customers who are vulnerable to competitive offerings.

Detractors (score 0-6) are unhappy customers who can damage your brand and impede growth through negative word-of-mouth.

Cappucino, eh? You can't get better than that. :wink:

[RIP Bestie]

I didnt get the chance to finish my last post coz literally ... ma tea was oot :greengrin

Why are Hibs not an attractive opportunity for any prospective new owner?

In 99% of cases buying a football club is a vanity project as there is little or no profit to be made, for most of them its about the profile and cudos they can gain from being part of a successful ventue. There are as many billionairs and cash rich businesses out there now as there was before the global meltdown. Not all of them crooks either.

There is not the same entry to the elite from involvement with Hibs as there is from buying an EPL club or an NFL franchise for instance. But, there is a pathway to fame and glory which could go worldwide and its simply this:

Any, but any, club which can break the OF monopoly of Scottish football would make headlines around Europe and the larger football community. I remember articles being printed in some European football magazines etc when the Yams were doing well in Burley's time there, and that was just because they looked like doing something .... the utterances of the looney owner did add fuel to that fire I admit.

With Hibs as they stand now most of the parts of the jigsaw are already in place to mount a challenge. A ground which even if on a smaller scale is a match for anything in the UK. The potential to reach home crowds of between 14 and 16 thousand on a regular basis and the potential to play European football on a regular basis.

Given what could be done with an investment of peanuts compared to what would be required in Europe's major leagues I think that somewhere out there theres a business or individual who is missing out on a major opportunity and I think the club should be sold as that.
I think that every single Hibs fan would love to see that and I have given my opinion to the rest of your post at #105.
All your points are valid and may not seem that unachievable. The big problem is finding that Scarlet Pimpernel, who is not a crook, who has the funds, desire and know how to take us to that platform.
Do you think that if Sir Tom has to go out looking for that person that they will necessarily have any of those attributes. From the off, I would question their desire. Sir Tom has always said that he would sell to the right person, with this stance I am sure he has kept the wolves from the door in the guise of people like Romanov, Massoni and probably Kennedy. I'm sure we are all grateful for that. I'm afraid I don't share your thoughts that there is someone out there just now.

[Phil D. Rolls]

This is indeed true. Video conferencing, Skype and email are other ways to micro-manage in absentia, but I still think your fitter has been a long term cannabis user. :paranoid:



Net promoter Score metrics show that you'll never get a biscuit if you keep giving 9/10's.

Promoters (score 9-10) are loyal enthusiasts who will keep buying and refer others, fueling growth.

Passives (score 7-8) are satisfied but unenthusiastic customers who are vulnerable to competitive offerings.

Detractors (score 0-6) are unhappy customers who can damage your brand and impede growth through negative word-of-mouth.

Cappucino, eh? You can't get better than that. :wink:

You know the drill, if he believes it was ST, then it was ST.

[ancient hibee]

Say £20million to buy the Hibs and provide working capital to move on to a higher level.Return for your £20million-zilch.Can't see a big queue.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Say £20million to buy the Hibs and provide working capital to move on to a higher level.Return for your £20million-zilch.Can't see a big queue.

Only to have scallies come round and smash your windows when it all goes wrong. (Liam Gallaghers reason for not investing in Man C.)

[ancient hibee]

Only to have scallies come round and smash your windows when it all goes wrong. (Liam Gallaghers reason for not investing in Man C.)


When Kenny Waugh was getting booed in the stand he said he couldn't understand why it was that after he'd put some money into Hibs all he got was grief.Shows that even the rich are naive.

[Phil D. Rolls]

When Kenny Waugh was getting booed in the stand he said he couldn't understand why it was that after he'd put some money into Hibs all he got was grief.Shows that even the rich are naive.

I think KW was glad to get out in the end, was he not? Re. naivety, I was shocked to see how surprised the FTB was, once the death threats started coming in.

[jakeshibs]

Sir Tom can say as little as he likes. He has stood up and been counted, for that he has my eternal thanks.

I agree!

[southsider]

At the end of the day, the books don't balance, and the facilities mean nothing if people don't go. So I guess it's a case of keeping the majority of the support happy the majority of the time.

The way I'm looking at it, it has to be close to tipping point. Who can say they're having any fun going to games anymore?

Aye, not been much fun upto now but TB is SAYING all the right things and i,for one, have faith that he and MM can deliver. Onwards and upwards boys and girls.....GGTTH

[NAE NOOKIE]

Say £20million to buy the Hibs and provide working capital to move on to a higher level.Return for your £20million-zilch.Can't see a big queue.

Happens all the time AH. There are sports teams all over the world with owners who put money in with no chance of a financial return. Like I said, its not about the money for these people. There are people and organisations all around the world to whom £20,000,000 is nothing.

Anyway ... I highly doubt it would cost £20,000,000 to buy Hibs :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Happens all the time AH. There are sports teams all over the world with owners who put money in with no chance of a financial return. Like I said, its not about the money for these people. There are people and organisations all around the world to whom £20,000,000 is nothing.

Anyway ... I highly doubt it would cost £20,000,000 to buy Hibs :greengrin

Or so fans like to believe. These people tend to be fantasists, or maniacs with ulterior motives.

[smurf]

I think KW was glad to get out in the end, was he not? Re. naivety, I was shocked to see how surprised the FTB was, once the death threats started coming in.

KW tried to buy us again in 1991.

[Phil D. Rolls]

KW tried to buy us again in 1991.

Man must have been a glutton for punishment.

[RIP Bestie]

KW tried to buy us again in 1991.
Wonder where we would be now if he had succeeded?

[FranckSuzy]

KW tried to buy us again in 1991.

Having spoken to him about it, he advised that he tried to help when FTB attempted the ill-advised takeover bid.

[smurf]

Having spoken to him about it, he advised that he tried to help when FTB attempted the ill-advised takeover bid.

He tried to buy us the following year in 1991. He failed in his attempt and Sir Tom succeeded.

[Kaiser1962]

He tried to buy us the following year in 1991. He failed in his attempt and Sir Tom succeeded.

Kenny Waugh sold his shareholding to Wallace Mercer and by doing so left David Duff isolated and had Duff followed suit, and he was under great pressure to do so, it would have been game over.

By doing this KW also left Farmer/Harrison (who thought they were working with KW to thwart Mercer) with a decision they never really wanted.

[Peevemor]

Kenny Waugh sold his shareholding to Wallace Mercer and by doing so left David Duff isolated and had Duff followed suit, and he was under great pressure to do so, it would have been game over.

By doing this KW also left Farmer/Harrison (who thought they were working with KW to thwart Mercer) with a decision they never really wanted.

Are you sure? At the time KW was buying up shares all over the place to stop Mercer getting his hands on them - STF was the only person to buy more.

I have a friend who was in the Waugh's house when it was announced Mercer was beaten - the explosion of joy and the party that followed were apparently "something else".

[southsider]

Are you sure? At the time KW was buying up shares all over the place to stop Mercer getting his hands on them - STF was the only person to but more.

I have a friend who was in the Waugh's house when it was announced Mercer was beaten - the explosion of joy and the party that followed were apparently "something else".

Yes, Mr Waugh is a good pal of my dads and he did not sell us out. Met him on a European trip when he was only out of the hospital a few days. Mr Waugh, his son and grandkids are all good Hibs people.

[147lothian]

Yes, Mr Waugh is a good pal of my dads and he did not sell us out. Met him on a European trip when he was only out of the hospital a few days. Mr Waugh, his son and grandkids are all good Hibs people.

That's so true, some people tend to follow the myth that KW was a villian and STF was the only show in town, this wasn't the case but history has always been written by the winners.

Ok so STF bought Hibs, but in reality Hibs are a big city club too big to go under, if it wasn't STF it would have been someone else

[jdships]

I agree!

me too :thumbsup:

[jdships]

I didnt get the chance to finish my last post coz literally ... ma tea was oot :greengrin

Why are Hibs not an attractive opportunity for any prospective new owner?

In 99% of cases buying a football club is a vanity project as there is little or no profit to be made, for most of them its about the profile and cudos they can gain from being part of a successful ventue. There are as many billionairs and cash rich businesses out there now as there was before the global meltdown. Not all of them crooks either.

There is not the same entry to the elite from involvement with Hibs as there is from buying an EPL club or an NFL franchise for instance. But, there is a pathway to fame and glory which could go worldwide and its simply this:

Any, but any, club which can break the OF monopoly of Scottish football would make headlines around Europe and the larger football community. I remember articles being printed in some European football magazines etc when the Yams were doing well in Burley's time there, and that was just because they looked like doing something .... the utterances of the looney owner did add fuel to that fire I admit.

With Hibs as they stand now most of the parts of the jigsaw are already in place to mount a challenge. A ground which even if on a smaller scale is a match for anything in the UK. The potential to reach home crowds of between 14 and 16 thousand on a regular basis and the potential to play European football on a regular basis.

[U]Given what could be done with an investment of peanuts compared to what would be required in Europe's major leagues I think that somewhere out there theres a business or individual who is missing out on a major opportunity and I think the club should be sold as that.[/U


Two points to remeber
As you say owning a FC is a " vanity project" with no chance of making a profit return on " capital investment "
Secondly this is SCOTTISH FOOTBALL we are talking about . As it stands Scotland in European club football terms is a " backwater" and I can't see how any club outwith OF would be atractive to any Mega millionaire !
Best we can hope for is a consortium type enterprise which would be no better than the present situation :rolleyes:
Sorry :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

Having spoken to him about it, he advised that he tried to help when FTB attempted the ill-advised takeover bid.


Are you sure? At the time KW was buying up shares all over the place to stop Mercer getting his hands on them - STF was the only person to buy more.

I have a friend who was in the Waugh's house when it was announced Mercer was beaten - the explosion of joy and the party that followed were apparently "something else".


Yes, Mr Waugh is a good pal of my dads and he did not sell us out. Met him on a European trip when he was only out of the hospital a few days. Mr Waugh, his son and grandkids are all good Hibs people.


That's so true, some people tend to follow the myth that KW was a villian and STF was the only show in town, this wasn't the case but history has always been written by the winners.

Ok so STF bought Hibs, but in reality Hibs are a big city club too big to go under, if it wasn't STF it would have been someone else

Kenny Waugh sold his shares to Wallace Mercer which certainly took Tom Harrison in particular by surprise.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/mercer-merger-20-years-on-wallace-mercer-decides-to-call-it-quites-as-david-duff-digs-in-1-1243770


Former Hibs chairman Kenny Waugh (pictured left) sold his club shares to Wallace Mercer but David Duff (right) refused



Kenny Waugh bought Hibs after he failed in his bid (beaten by Mercer) to buy Hearts

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19811003&id=kLdAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xaUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=4579,440370


I am a Hibs supporter by birth and upbringing, but if I had bought Hearts I would have been a Hearts' supporter from that day and worked as hard for them as I will for Hibs. I wanted an opportunity to be active in football, and I could not be happier that it is with Hibs

[Kaiser1962]

That's so true, some people tend to follow the myth that KW was a villian and STF was the only show in town, this wasn't the case but history has always been written by the winners.

Ok so STF bought Hibs, but in reality Hibs are a big city club too big to go under, if it wasn't STF it would have been someone else

Who?

Mercer had over two thirds of the shareholding under his control once he got the Waugh shares and only David Duff's personal shareholding stood between Mercer and wiping Hibs out. It was that close.

Duff gets a bad rap but he didnt sell out whilst under intense pressure to do so at a substantial financial cost to himself.

[greenlex]

Say £20million to buy the Hibs and provide working capital to move on to a higher level.Return for your £20million-zilch.Can't see a big queue.

You woud still have a 20 million pound club tho.

[jdships]

Who?

Mercer had over two thirds of the shareholding under his control once he got the Waugh shares and only David Duff's personal shareholding stood between Mercer and wiping Hibs out. It was that close.

Duff gets a bad rap but he didnt sell out whilst under intense pressure to do so at a substantial financial cost to himself.


I was present at the meeting in Fife where DD told Mercer to his face he would not sell him his shares
DD would NOT BUDGE or give an inch on the matter
The atmosphere was unreal and it is impossible to put into words the reactions of individuals
I was there to act as a witness to any signatures put to official papers .
Credit where credit is due to DD

For many people the jury was and still is "OUT" re KW's part in all this - but that is another story !!:greengrin

[RIP Bestie]

Who?

Mercer had over two thirds of the shareholding under his control once he got the Waugh shares and only David Duff's personal shareholding stood between Mercer and wiping Hibs out. It was that close.

Duff gets a bad rap but he didnt sell out whilst under intense pressure to do so at a substantial financial cost to himself.
Maybe not but he did put us in the position of being vulnerable to a hostile bid.
Used to really piss me off how him and Gray used to walk round patronisingly clapping the Hibs fans at away games.
Charlie Big Spuds attitude when all along they were taking us to the wall. Hate them both with a passion

[FranckSuzy]

Kenny Waugh sold his shares to Wallace Mercer which certainly took Tom Harrison in particular by surprise.

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/mercer-merger-20-years-on-wallace-mercer-decides-to-call-it-quites-as-david-duff-digs-in-1-1243770





Kenny Waugh bought Hibs after he failed in his bid (beaten by Mercer) to buy Hearts

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19811003&id=kLdAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xaUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=4579,440370

Knowing both Kenny Waugh senior and junior, I find that article very hard to believe, I'm afraid. The fact that this line was got past the Editor leaves a lot to be desired...

"Kenny McLean jnr, son of the former Hibs chairman – also Kenny – who had led the high-profile campaign against Mercer recalled the moment he heard the unprecedented saga was all over, and again it was from the Evening News..." Shoddy reporting.

[smurf]

Kenny Waugh sold his shareholding to Wallace Mercer and by doing so left David Duff isolated and had Duff followed suit, and he was under great pressure to do so, it would have been game over.

By doing this KW also left Farmer/Harrison (who thought they were working with KW to thwart Mercer) with a decision they never really wanted.

Think you've got that well wrong. Kenny Waugh senior sold the club toM David Duff in August 1987. Just short of three years before Mercer attempted to kill us.

[Peevemor]

Knowing both Kenny Waugh senior and junior, I find that article very hard to believe, I'm afraid. The fact that this line was got past the Editor leaves a lot to be desired...

"Kenny McLean jnr, son of the former Hibs chairman – also Kenny – who had led the high-profile campaign against Mercer recalled the moment he heard the unprecedented saga was all over, and again it was from the Evening News..." Shoddy reporting.

Ditto.

KW did his best to buy up as many shares as he could to stop them falling into Mercer's hands. I certainly have no recollection of him selling out.

[smurf]

Who?

Mercer had over two thirds of the shareholding under his control once he got the Waugh shares and only David Duff's personal shareholding stood between Mercer and wiping Hibs out. It was that close.

Duff gets a bad rap but he didnt sell out whilst under intense pressure to do so at a substantial financial cost to himself.

Good point re David Duff. Had he sold we were toast. Had he sold he was going to be a rich man. I remember only aged 17 at Easter Road on the day of the Hands Off Hibs rally and he was genuinely crying his eyes out as I implored him to never sell. He said he wouldn't under any circumstances. He didn't. Yes he made mistakes but he as much as anyone saved us.

[Kato]

Good point re David Duff. Had he sold we were toast. Had he sold he was going to be a rich man. I remember only aged 17 at Easter Road on the day of the Hands Off Hibs rally and he was genuinely crying his eyes out as I implored him to never sell. He said he wouldn't under any circumstances. He didn't. Yes he made mistakes but he as much as anyone saved us.

Spotty Rowland's ex-wife refused to sell too, iirc. She was a board member, got to know the club and felt what Rowland and Mercer was doing was wrong.

[Kaiser1962]

Spotty Rowland's ex-wife refused to sell too, iirc. She was a board member, got to know the club and felt what Rowland and Mercer was doing was wrong.

She was part of the board that voted to reject Mercer's offer sparking the share battle. She was put there to do Rowlands bidding but thankfully she was pretty pissed with him at the time.

[Kaiser1962]

Think you've got that well wrong. Kenny Waugh senior sold the club toM David Duff in August 1987. Just short of three years before Mercer attempted to kill us.

He did and retained a minority shareholding following the sale.

[Kaiser1962]

I was present at the meeting in Fife where DD told Mercer to his face he would not sell him his shares
DD would NOT BUDGE or give an inch on the matter
The atmosphere was unreal and it is impossible to put into words the reactions of individuals
I was there to act as a witness to any signatures put to official papers .
Credit where credit is due to DD

For many people the jury was and still is "OUT" re KW's part in all this - but that is another story !!:greengrin


And a good one at that! :greengrin

[Kaiser1962]

Maybe not but he did put us in the position of being vulnerable to a hostile bid.
Used to really piss me off how him and Gray used to walk round patronisingly clapping the Hibs fans at away games.
Charlie Big Spuds attitude when all along they were taking us to the wall. Hate them both with a passion

I have no doubt that Duff (and Gray) had the best of intentions for the club but the fundamental problem was that they did not have the means to finance the club on their own and were reliant on David Rowland. As JDships says in post above yours Duff did not buckle when under great pressure from Mercer and Rowland and for that alone I am grateful to him.

[ancient hibee]

Mercer was no master businessman.If he'd done nothing,Hibs would have gone to the wall anyway.As it was by his actions he mobilised everyone against him.