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View Full Version : Do we have the players to turn our season around if Butcher is the new manager ?



TheBruce
09-11-2013, 08:57 PM
I think we might need some new faces as some if the current crop don't have the skill or desire to get us out of the current situation!

Pretty Boy
09-11-2013, 09:01 PM
We are a million miles away from having a good squad.

New faces and another transitional period await. Hopefully TB can bring in players who don't need months to settle.

TheBruce
09-11-2013, 09:02 PM
We are a million miles away from having a good squad.

New faces and another transitional period await. Hopefully TB can bring in players who don't need months to settle.

The biggest thing the team lack just now is pride !

Greencore
09-11-2013, 09:05 PM
Yes, yes, yes! I strongly believe we do, TB just needs to get his training, tactics installed and we will be halfway there. It will take time, but it is important we get right behind the manager and players. For me when TB comes in it is a new season for me. He is a winner at getting the best out of his players. Sure no cups but he has been on a very tight budget at ict

random sub
09-11-2013, 09:06 PM
We have a mid table squad and Tel won't be able to do much about that unless he signs some fresh talent

CallumLaidlaw
09-11-2013, 09:07 PM
We are a million miles away from having a good squad.

New faces and another transitional period await. Hopefully TB can bring in players who don't need months to settle.

I disagree. I think we can add a few players to -

Williams
McGivern
Hanlon
Thomson
Robertson
Craig
Harris
Heffernan

And build the confidence of the above players, and we could do well. We have some good solid players but are missing cutting edge, and a load of confidence.

Gatecrasher
09-11-2013, 09:08 PM
You know what, I'm going to stick my neck out a bit and say yes, no doubt a few signings will need to be made but I think if the players get the kick up the backside they need and played in a decent formation that plays to their strengths I think we can still have a decent season.

The Voice Of Reason
09-11-2013, 09:09 PM
We are a million miles away from having a good squad.

New faces and another transitional period await. Hopefully TB can bring in players who don't need months to settle.

Totally agree.

TheBruce
09-11-2013, 09:09 PM
We have a mid table squad and Tel won't be able to do much about that unless he signs some fresh talent

I believe in TB but I'm not sure I believe in the players ! I want to but it's difficult at the moment!

hibsbollah
09-11-2013, 09:10 PM
You know what, I'm going to stick my neck out a bit and say yes, no doubt a few signings will need to be made but I think if the players get the kick up the backside they need and played in a decent formation that plays to their strengths I think we can still have a decent season.

:agree:

The Voice Of Reason
09-11-2013, 09:10 PM
You know what, I'm going to stick my neck out a bit and say yes, no doubt a few signings will need to be made but I think if the players get the kick up the backside they need and played in a decent formation that plays to their strengths I think we can still have a decent season.

We don't have enough pace in our team/squad - simple as that.

Love the Green
09-11-2013, 09:11 PM
I think we might need some new faces as some if the current crop don't have the skill or desire to get us out of the current situation!

NO

Pretty Boy
09-11-2013, 09:11 PM
I disagree. I think we can add a few players to -

Williams
McGivern
Hanlon
Thomson
Robertson
Craig
Harris
Heffernan

And build the confidence of the above players, and we could do well. We have some good solid players but are missing cutting edge, and a load of confidence.

So from a match day squad of 18 we have 8 decent, 2 of whom i'd question there inclusion on the list.

That's a fair bit away in my book.

Hibercelona
09-11-2013, 09:15 PM
I think most of these players are capable of playing to a higher standard than they have been.

I know this, because they have done at other clubs, otherwise they wouldn't be here.

Whether they can perform to a high enough standard to get us playing as well as we should be playing, i'm not entirely sure.

kevo1875
09-11-2013, 09:16 PM
We don't have a spine to our team until we do we will struggle

Itsnoteasy
09-11-2013, 09:17 PM
So we get rid of the irish team we have amassed under pf. I remember when jim duffy signed 1st division players we played like a 1st division team. Now we are playing like an irish 3rd division team. No pride playing for the jersey is the biggest problem. MHIB


QUOTE=CallumLaidlaw;3803011]I disagree. I think we can add a few players to -

Williams
McGivern
Hanlon
Thomson
Robertson
Craig
Harris
Heffernan

And build the confidence of the above players, and we could do well. We have some good solid players but are missing cutting edge, and a load of confidence.[/QUOTE]

random sub
09-11-2013, 09:18 PM
We don't have enough pace in our team/squad - simple as that.

This has been a defining issue of our predicament. Also, I was watching today that hardly any of our players can go past a man by trick or speed, whereas several or many of the Inverness players could do this with ease.

stoneyburn hibs
09-11-2013, 09:24 PM
I honestly think the squad we have is half decent, certainly better than what we have seen so far this season.
Managed better then i think they will start producing, hopefully TB can do that.

Hibby Kay-Yay
09-11-2013, 09:29 PM
We don't have enough pace in our team/squad - simple as that.

Perhaps that point was covered in the 'getting in some new players?'

Of which I'd agree, a couple of players in with pace and we'd be a different team, plus Harris back too!

down-the-slope
09-11-2013, 09:34 PM
I think we might need some new faces as some if the current crop don't have the skill or desire to get us out of the current situation!

We just need confidence instilled / increase in fitness / tactics that are simple but effective.......and players played in their natural / best positions..

A couple of additions in Jan / U20's promoted to 1st team / injuries clearing up would all help too

LioNeilMessi
09-11-2013, 09:34 PM
So we get rid of the irish team we have amassed under pf. I remember when jim duffy signed 1st division players we played like a 1st division team. Now we are playing like an irish 3rd division team. No pride playing for the jersey is the biggest problem. MHIB

Why on earth would you single out the Irish players? In fact, we only have 5/6 players that are Irish/NI and none of them were signed from the League of Ireland/Irish 3rd division..

Lang Toun Hibs
09-11-2013, 09:36 PM
Yes, yes, yes! I strongly believe we do, TB just needs to get his training, tactics installed and we will be halfway there. It will take time, but it is important we get right behind the manager and players. For me when TB comes in it is a new season for me. He is a winner at getting the best out of his players. Sure no cups but he has been on a very tight budget at ict

I agree, we do have decent players...even vine and Collins may surprise us in the coming weeks. Have faith! And keep your fingers crossed.

Stewboy
09-11-2013, 09:37 PM
If they can start playing passes that matter and with some urgency then yes, we will do ok under Tel

If they keep up the pedestrian stuff then we will continue to get humped

Love the Green
09-11-2013, 09:38 PM
We just need confidence instilled / increase in fitness / tactics that are simple but effective.......and players played in their natural / best positions..

A couple of additions in Jan / U20's promoted to 1st team / injuries clearing up would all help too

All the requirements any manager should be able to provide so why have we been pish under 4 managers or more?

Itsnoteasy
09-11-2013, 09:44 PM
Why on earth would you single out the Irish players? In fact, we only have 5/6 players that are Irish/NI and none of them were signed from the League of Ireland/Irish 3rd division..

I think you will find that most of pf signings were irish. And pish. Just making a point. And comparing with duffy. Nothing against the irish. And the non irish were pish as well. Kujabi was the pick of the bunch.

GreenCastle
09-11-2013, 09:50 PM
We have a core of a few players who I think will do ok for us in the next few years -

Williams - out of contract in summer
McGivern
Hanlon
Forster
Robertson
Harris - out of contract in summer...I think...
Heffernan
Craig
Thomson - but not alongside Craig

................................

Bench players -

Stevenson
Taiwo
Maybury
Nelson

.................................

Can do without...

McPake
Vine
Collins


.................................

What is going on with this lot...

Handling
Caldwell
Stanton
Clancy
Cairney
OTJ

.................................................

The problem is that in January there are hardly ever any decent players that move - maybe loans.

................................................

Criteria for new players....basic skill / creativity / speed / some leadership (mental toughness)

Jonnyboy
09-11-2013, 09:58 PM
We have many problems for TB to address and aside from the obvious we have a massive lack of confidence in the side

Stewboy
09-11-2013, 10:00 PM
We WILL be a better team when Clancy is back. Question is when will he back?

Benny Brazil
09-11-2013, 10:03 PM
I disagree. I think we can add a few players to -

Williams
McGivern
Hanlon
Thomson
Robertson
Craig
Harris
Heffernan

And build the confidence of the above players, and we could do well. We have some good solid players but are missing cutting edge, and a load of confidence.

Sorry dont rate him - might just be me.

erskine-hibby
09-11-2013, 10:04 PM
We have many problems for TB to address and aside from the obvious we have a massive lack of confidence in the side

Agreed.
Todays game (shambles) said everything that is wrong with this team at present.

GreenCastle
09-11-2013, 10:12 PM
We have many problems for TB to address and aside from the obvious we have a massive lack of confidence in the side

Confidence and leadership :agree:

McGivern is a better CB than left back - even though he has always played left back - last season showed him playing well at LB.

At the same time with no wide midfielders / no wide midfielders defending our full backs often get exposed.

Liberal Hibby
09-11-2013, 10:15 PM
Yup - a bit more directness in the way they're set up and a big dose of confidence and we'll be fine.

Interesting post match interview (as ever) with Jimmy Nicoll where he makes it clear confidence is a big problem.

matty_f
09-11-2013, 11:58 PM
I think we have the crux of a decent side but the glaring area that butcher needs to address is giving the players freedom and confidence to attack when we get the ball.

steakbake
10-11-2013, 12:01 AM
Confidence and a bit of drive would be good. We've the makings of a good team.

hibby rae
10-11-2013, 12:08 AM
We don't have enough pace in our team/squad - simple as that.

Agreed, there's a good team there and all we need is the addition of pace. We can't press teams without it and that is the main problem.

Thecat23
10-11-2013, 12:12 AM
I personally think we aren't fit. We look tired after 60 mins. TB won't put up with that. So instead of basic training they are in for a surprise!

A fit Hibs could finish top 5.

Jones28
10-11-2013, 02:56 AM
TB has a real mountain to climb. The squad simply as not as good as some of us think. Leaky defence, a lacklustre midfield - despite the best efforts of Craig, Robertson and to some extent KT and 2 attackers who couldnae hit a coo's erse wi a banjo. No pace on the flanks and a serious lack of a killer pass.

Key players and definite keepers for us are Williams, Robertson, Craig and potentially Heffernan. Not counting the young lads who are barely getting a sniff at first team football, which is madness considering what we have produced over the years.

For some, the jury is out: namely Collins, Tudor-jones and McGivern who seems to be costing us a goal a week at the moment.

Others are simply not good enough. Mcpake sold himself in the derby. For someone who stood head and shoulders above the rest when he first arrived he has nosedived. Hanlon and Stevenson are squad players, Hanlon seems to have been better when he was alongside Nelson and even Forster. If heart and commitment won games ludo would be the best player on the park anywhere in the world, unfortunately I don't think he will be first pick under Butcher. Sincerely hope I'm wrong.

bingo70
10-11-2013, 08:30 AM
I think we have the crux of a decent side but the glaring area that butcher needs to address is giving the players freedom and confidence to attack when we get the ball.

I used to think that but I'm not sure.

Two poor full backs, soft in the centre so that's the defence pish.

Midfield we've got some decent players in Robertson, Craig, kt and butcher will feel he can get more out of Otj. They're all central though and there's no balance there. Harris could.make a difference but we can't put too much pressure on him, he's just a young boy.

Up front I think heff and Collins are ok but neither are anything special, even if we improve the other issues I'm still not convinced they'll score a lot.

Hibby 2005
10-11-2013, 09:05 AM
I think the very least Butcher will do is recognise where certain players best positions are, something Fenlon either struggled or refused to see. That will bring an immediate improvement.

rcarter1
10-11-2013, 09:12 AM
I personally think we aren't fit. We look tired after 60 mins. TB won't put up with that. So instead of basic training they are in for a surprise!

A fit Hibs could finish top 5.

Id put that down to lack of belief. TB will have a few weeks to deal with what he has, before we get a transfer window. If he joins us it will be interesting to see how much he can turn the spirit around in the short term.

ballengeich
10-11-2013, 09:22 AM
As I don't think PF got the best out of our squad my answer to the OP is yes. I think that a new manager should be able to get a number of individuals playing nearer their potential. He should also be able to create a playing structure which gives them a better chance to combine as an effective team.

Although we were abysmal yesterday, I thought that the formation in the second half was more like what we should have. One defensive midfielder and two players wide gives more potential to attack than the narrow defensive setup we've usually had even if some of the individuals yesterday may need to be replaced.

J-C
10-11-2013, 09:22 AM
We have players at the club who should be performing better than they are.
McGivern...........looks like a shadow of himself
OTJ.........a dominant CM who looks pants
Craig.........one of the best AMC in Scotland last season, now looks disinterested.
Taiwo.........a guaranteed starter last season has been terrible so far.
Hanlon.......just hasn't progressed from 2-3 seasons ago ans still making schoolboy errors
Cairney.........where the hell is he, his guile is missing, has he became that bad he can;t get near the team
Collins.........looked a player when we bought him, turning rapidly into the worst buy ever for Hibs
Heffernan.........looks to play when he feels like it, far too inconsistant

There is something seriously wrong behind the scenes at ER, lets hope Butcher and co. can find and root out the problems asap

jacomo
10-11-2013, 02:44 PM
I think we have the crux of a decent side but the glaring area that butcher needs to address is giving the players freedom and confidence to attack when we get the ball.

Broadly I agree, and give PF the credit for bringing a few decent players through the door. But Hibs haven't seemed able to get the best from our signings for a while now, and improving our coaching and the way we set up is a long term challenge.

In the short term, we're simply not scoring enough goals. We lack confidence and bravery on the ball.

Franck Stanton
10-11-2013, 03:36 PM
I believe in TB but I'm not sure I believe in the players ! I want to but it's difficult at the moment!
Amen to that brother , amen.

DH1875
10-11-2013, 04:34 PM
Sorry dont rate him - might just be me.


Nah, I'm with you on that one. He's proper Tom Kite these days :agree:.

blackpoolhibs
10-11-2013, 04:41 PM
I dont think we have, which one of our back 4 would anyone above us in this league want? Our midfield is pedestrian, and if we were to play Robertson and Thomson, the 2 players most folk would say were the best 2 from the 258 we have, its clear whoever they play with we don't create or dominate teams.

Up front we are poor too, maybe down to lack of service, but personally i dont think the ones we have are anything special like we have had over the years.

Major work in my opinion to be done.

truehibernian
10-11-2013, 04:50 PM
We have players at the club who should be performing better than they are.
McGivern...........looks like a shadow of himself
OTJ.........a dominant CM who looks pants
Craig.........one of the best AMC in Scotland last season, now looks disinterested.
Taiwo.........a guaranteed starter last season has been terrible so far.
Hanlon.......just hasn't progressed from 2-3 seasons ago ans still making schoolboy errors
Cairney.........where the hell is he, his guile is missing, has he became that bad he can;t get near the team
Collins.........looked a player when we bought him, turning rapidly into the worst buy ever for Hibs
Heffernan.........looks to play when he feels like it, far too inconsistant

There is something seriously wrong behind the scenes at ER, lets hope Butcher and co. can find and root out the problems asap

The problem is hard work - Hibernian don't work hard enough, train hard enough and it's showing on the pitch. That and a lack of pace and dynamism to our play up top.

If the game was played on Twitter we'd be in the draw for the Champions League though.

hibeedonald
10-11-2013, 05:00 PM
Games like yesterday where we couldn't break them down, cairney would just nutmeg a player then open everything up. We miss him badly. Could really do with Harris back in best form he was brilliant.

Holmesdale Hibs
10-11-2013, 05:13 PM
We have players at the club who should be performing better than they are.
McGivern...........looks like a shadow of himself
OTJ.........a dominant CM who looks pants
Craig.........one of the best AMC in Scotland last season, now looks disinterested.
Taiwo.........a guaranteed starter last season has been terrible so far.
Hanlon.......just hasn't progressed from 2-3 seasons ago ans still making schoolboy errors
Cairney.........where the hell is he, his guile is missing, has he became that bad he can;t get near the team
Collins.........looked a player when we bought him, turning rapidly into the worst buy ever for Hibs
Heffernan.........looks to play when he feels like it, far too inconsistant

There is something seriously wrong behind the scenes at ER, lets hope Butcher and co. can find and root out the problems asap

Agree with this. I think the current squad is under performing and under achieving. Personally, i don't think the ICT squad is technically better than ours, they're just better managed, better motivated and playing with more confidence. Does anyone think we'd be higher up the table if PF started the season with the ICT squad?

We've signed Craig and OTJ, both starters last year from teams that are now above us. We have a squad of decent SPL players and a good manager would have that group of players much higher up the league.

GreenCastle
10-11-2013, 05:17 PM
I would happily have Wotherspoon and Doyle playing for us still...

What about Calum Booth also! Not saving we would be winning all these games with them but these players could have been used in wide areas / up front!

B.H.F.C
10-11-2013, 05:25 PM
As much as I hated the way Fenlon had us playing its about time that lot had a word with themselves.

Nobody in that team has the balls to take any responsibility. When we went two down yesterday they just all wandered about with their heads down.

The lack of quality is appealing as well. Look at Shinnie playing out of position at right back for them. He won the penalty then set up the second. We had a similar situation until a couple of weeks ago and got nothing like that from that position. McGivern is honking. Hanlon is soft and happy
to pass the buck. Some of his distribution was the perfect example of that. We have some decent individual midfielders but collectively they don't click.

Collins hasn't done anything to justify his transfer fee. Giving away that penalty yesterday was an act of stupidity but how on earth do we end up with a striker in those type of position? Heffernan can score goals but we don't create anything.

Hopefully Harris can give us a wee spark but it's disgusting that a young boy is going to be the one we are looking at to do that.

Strongest squad outside Celtic? Not a chance. Good luck Terry, you'll need it.

MB62
10-11-2013, 05:33 PM
I used to think that but I'm not sure.

Two poor full backs, soft in the centre so that's the defence pish.

Midfield we've got some decent players in Robertson, Craig, kt and butcher will feel he can get more out of Otj. They're all central though and there's no balance there. Harris could.make a difference but we can't put too much pressure on him, he's just a young boy.

Up front I think heff and Collins are ok but neither are anything special, even if we improve the other issues I'm still not convinced they'll score a lot.

I think the basic problem with the whole squad is a total lack of pace right throughout the team.
Pat signed quite a few good players during the summer, but, as I've said before, he didn't sign a good TEAM, and he failed to mould his signings into a TEAM.

I believe K.T. is a very good individual football player who can have his uses in certain games, but I feel playing him unbalances the midfield as we need runners to compensate for his lack of pace, and we just don't have that.

Right through a team, you need partnerships, two centre halves, two centre midfielders and two strikers.
A few weeks ago when I was watching BBC sportscene (or whatever they call it) the two pundits were Hansen and Shearer and they were talking about the merits of the two forward partnerships of Liverpool and Man Utd. Shearer said, in his time, there were some partners he played with that just came natural, where there were others that needed to be formed and worked at and that he stayed behind after training to work hard with his new partner to form an understanding of each others game.
With Collins and Heffernan, it looks to me like the first time they see each other during a week is on park on match days as they don't seem to have any chemistry there at all, two strikers but NOT a partnership.
There's good players there at the club but a lot of week is needed to form them in to a good TEAM.

MyJo
10-11-2013, 06:02 PM
Assuming no other signings and players getting back to full fitness i would say this is our strongest squad:

_______________Williams

Clancy_____Nelson_____Hanlon_____McGivern

_______________Thomson
_____Robertson___________Craig

Harris___________________________Cairney
_______________Heffernan

That to me isnt too bad of a team, Clancy and Cairney the possible weak links in that line up and IMO those positions need looked at urgently in January. The problem is getting all these players fit and performing to their full ability, actually showing a bit of desire.

Williams - Best keeper we have had in many years constantly being let down by idiotic defending.
Clancy - Get rid and sign a proper right back in January (Tom Hateley??)
Nelson - Does the simple stuff needed at the back and has been a positive influence on the team, especially Hanlon.
Hanlon - Plays much better with someone like Nelson who knows he is a defender as opposed to McPake who thinks he is a midfielder and/or ninja.
McGivern - Needs to get his finger out. Was great last season but his injury seems to have knocked his confidence this season.
Thomson - Has quality, needs to be given the opportunity to show it. Too busy covering for others in the team most of the time.
Robertson - Probably our best player so far this season even while being played out of position. One of the few who drives forward and isnt scared to try a shot on goal.
Craig - Much like Robertson has been decent and contributed some goals but is capable of so much better than he is producing. Playing him more centrally with a winger on the outside of him rather than putting him wide left would make more sense IMO.
Harris - Really unlucky with his injury and can hopefully come back fit enough and bring a bit of pace to the squad again.
Cairney - If he can get fit and show the type of form he had in the first half season he played for us he could be an important player but im concerned he lacks the strength of character to accept a boot up the backside and get himself into the team when his form dips. Zoubir may end up keeping him out of the team.
Heffernan - The only striker on our books that looks capable of scoring, nuff said.

Expecting Rain
10-11-2013, 06:28 PM
The problem is hard work - Hibernian don't work hard enough, train hard enough and it's showing on the pitch. That and a lack of pace and dynamism to our play up top.

If the game was played on Twitter we'd be in the draw for the Champions League though.
Must be some potentially brilliant coaches in the stands.