How long does a new manager get (from the fans)

[Scouse Hibee]

A new manager comes in and if he's not achieved anything or is winless in say 10 games, I guess the knives will be out. What's your minimum expectation of a new manager?

Yes I know this question comes from someone who has written Zoubir off after 6 games :greengrin

[SteveHFC]

1 month :agree::wink:

[CB_NO3]

A new manager comes in and if he's not achieved anything or is winless in say 10 games, I guess the knives will be out. What's your minimum expectation of a new manager?
The next Hearts game :-) In all seriousness, football is a results business but its also about entertainment. If the team are playing well but lose the a game or two I can accept that, if the team cant get a shot on target at home to a team with a similair calibre then I cant accept that. Its not hard to be a decent team in this Mickey Mouse league. Just needs a coach with a brain.

[Northernhibee]

Given two losses on the trot gets a lynch mob outside the stadium, not long at all I'm guessing.

[Killiehibbie]

A couple of seasons unless he looks like me competing! in the olympic 100m

[brian6-2]

3 minutes.

[SlickShoes]

Two full seasons, if there is no improvement in the way we play, and the way we lose then time for the bin.

[Pretty Boy]

To get the fans onside he has to have a better start than the last 2. Fans aren't good at seeing and understanding 'circumstances'.

Almost all fans were desperate to give Fenlon time. Despite being pretty poor for a long spell last season it was only really after Malmo and Hearts this year that he lost the vast majority of fans, myself included, and it ended quite sourly.

Butcher, or whoever, should be judged about when Fenlon was. That is after his 1st full season in charge.

[hibIBZ]

We have not even appointed him yet and we are already thinking about how long he gets before we fire him. Do we ever learn?

[Scouse Hibee]

We have not even appointed him yet and we are already thinking about how long he gets before we fire him. Do we ever learn?

No we're not, the fans can't fire a manager! The thread title was quite clear, if you don't like it then don't bother contributing.

[andy1875]

2 seasons.

Still a large part of this season to go, summer to make necessary changes and then kick on next season.

If there's still no progress then I'll officially give up on football :greengrin

[hibIBZ]

No we're not, the fans can't fire a manager!

ok call for a manager to be fired. Lets be more open minded here and give the new man our backing without a timescale putting the man under pressure from the start

[Highland Hibby]

We can't judge him fully until he gets his own team, and January xfer windows are never the greatest so he really has to get until this time next season. On a shorter term if he can make good use of substitutions, have a plan b if things aren't going well, play players in their right position and go out to win games rather than avoid defeat then that will do for me.

[Scouse Hibee]

ok call for a manager to be fired. Lets be more open minded here and give the new man our backing without a timescale putting the man under pressure from the start


It's a general question based on what has gone before at other teams this season and before, I'm not putting anyone under pressure( apart from Zoubir in another post)

[TomoHFC]

Well #MoyesOut was treading in David Moyes First Man Utd game in Pre-Season by so called Man Utd fans on Twitter.

[Andy74]

If what's been said about Fenlon is right we should be getting improvements in weeks. Why would he need 2 years from here?

[Thecat23]

If he's not in the right suite when he arrives I WANT HIM GONE :D

[jacomo]

1 month :agree::wink:

1 match. Unless there's an immediate improvement, it's pelters from me.

******in boo!

[Hibercelona]

I expect the team on the park to at least look organized and appear to have a game plan in place within the first month of the manager being here.

If that doesn't happen, then it doesn't matter how much additional time you give the manager, because he clearly has no idea how to manage.

[Scouse Hibee]

If he's not in the right suite when he arrives I WANT HIM GONE :D

How many suites have we got :wink:

[MyJo]

If he's not in the right suite when he arrives I WANT HIM GONE :D

Totally agree, black leather 3 piece is an absolute must :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

I expect the team on the park to at least look organized and appear to have a game plan in place within the first month of the manager being here

If that doesn't happen, then it doesn't matter how much additional time you give the manager, because he clearly has no idea how to manage.

Sometimes you need to stop and put your brain in gear before you type on threads. You're giving him one month and if we don't meet your expectations he clearly has no idea how to manage?

Jeezo

[Thecat23]

How many suites have we got :wink:

I really need to read what I post :D

[greenlex]

If he doesnt win the new year derby he is toast unfortunately.:chop:

[Viva_Palmeiras]

We can't judge him fully until he gets his own team, and January xfer windows are never the greatest so he really has to get until this time next season. On a shorter term if he can make good use of substitutions, have a plan b if things aren't going well, play players in their right position and go out to win games rather than avoid defeat then that will do for me.

This is is simply out of the question IMO we need stability ands cannot change a whole team with managerial changes that approach is broken.

One of the questions/scenarios I'd put to the candidates.

We've invested in assembling a decent squad of experienced players including internationalists. How would you work to mould these players into an improved, consistent team without wholesale changes. Assume you have budget for 2 new players come January. Other changes are one in one out.

[Thecat23]

Totally agree, black leather 3 piece is an absolute must :greengrin

It's been a Long day ;) as long as he doesn't recline I'll be happy!




I'll get my coat!!!! :D

[Hibercelona]

Sometimes you need to stop and put your brain in gear before you type on threads. You're giving him one month and if we don't meet your expectations he clearly has no idea how to manage?

Jeezo

Whats so hard about getting a bit of organization and game plan together within the first month?

I'm not saying we better be world beaters. But at least some positive sign that the manager actually has a clue.

[Andy74]

Sometimes you need to stop and put your brain in gear before you type on threads. You're giving him one month and if we don't meet your expectations he clearly has no idea how to manage?

Jeezo

He has a point though. If we've just got rid of a manager for not doing more with a good squad surely the next one should be able to pretty much right away?

[Jonnyboy]

Whats so hard about getting a bit of organization and game plan together within the first month?

I'm not saying we better be world beaters. But at least some positive sign that the manager actually has a clue.

You've shifted the goalposts now. You said that if he can't do it in a month, he'll never do it (paraphrasing here) To me that's just plain daft.

Like you, I'd like to see early improvement but to give him a month is just plain daft

[Jonnyboy]

He has a point though. If we've just got rid of a manager for not doing more with a good squad surely the next one should be able to pretty much right away?

Pat's gone now Andy, you need to move on :greengrin

[Islington Hibs]

The title of this post ' how long does he get' sums up what is wrong with us. Instant results are expected and it is wholly unrealistic. We are on our 10th manager in 16 years and it is a joke. Sure some deserved to go but in all honestly how can we build for the future with this attitude. the new guy (and the players) need our support. Minimum 2 years absolute minimum.

[The Sea-gull]

My own take is it is all relative to the state the club is in when they take charge. As often happens a manager takes charge of a team when things are 100% great and it is often during mid season.

I'd say that you give the manager taking over in midseason a target between now and the end of the season. When Pat took over it was to avoid relegation. Proving that what Pat did wasn't all bad, the next guy should be told that he should get us at least top 6 by the end of the season. I'm not saying he should be sacked if he doesn't but that should be the target set.

You then set a target for the end of next season based on how the rest of this season goes. That should again be top 6 minimum no matter what. If the new guy fails to meet expectations (assuming he has been given reasonable backing and accounting for the fact that he has an ok squad at his disposal) then at the end of next season he goes.

We don't want to chop and change all the time but at the same time we don't want to stick with someone just for the sake of it.

Needless to say if it looks like we aree sliding into a relegation battle or heading fro the drop at any time then any manager should really be sacked irrespective of who they are and how long they have been here.

[Hibercelona]

You've shifted the goalposts now. You said that if he can't do it in a month, he'll never do it (paraphrasing here) To me that's just plain daft.

Like you, I'd like to see early improvement but to give him a month is just plain daft

If a manager comes in who is capable, then why would it take any longer than a month to get a team of reasonable quality players to look organized?

The way I see it. A good manager wont need any longer than a month to get this squad looking more organized and composed.

[Scouse Hibee]

The title of this post ' how long does he get' sums up what is wrong with us. Instant results are expected and it is wholly unrealistic. We are on our 10th manager in 16 years and it is a joke. Sure some deserved to go but in all honestly how can we build for the future with this attitude. the new guy (and the players) need our support. Minimum 2 years absolute minimum.

Read the title again then! There you go 2 years minimum you've answered the question thanks.

[Jonnyboy]

If a manager comes in who is capable, then why would it take any longer than a month to get a team of reasonable quality players to look organized?

The way I see it. A good manager wont need any longer than a month to get this squad looking more organized and composed.

I agree but you started of by offering the view that he had a month and that's all he was getting to prove himself to you!

[Saorsa]

The rest of this season tae hopefully improve a bit (couldnae get much worse) and the whole of next season tae kick on from there. That will give him a January transfer windae, a summer transfer windae and another January one. Pretty much what Fenlon got. Unless there's a complete disaster on the horizon anything less would just be silly. I only gave up on Fenlon efter the Malmo game and the yams game at the start of the season and the cup game was really the final straw. I dinnae expect miracles I expect improvement, if it gets tae the stage like it did with Fenlon, that we're just going naewhere efter that amount of time, then it'll be :bye: time.

[Hibercelona]

I agree but you started of by offering the view that he had a month and that's all he was getting to prove himself to you!

No. I said I would give the new manager a month to get this squad looking more "organized".

If he manages to get us looking more organized within the first month, then i'll give him more time to prove what he can really do.

[greenlex]

No. I said I would give the new manager a month to get this squad looking more "organized".

If he manages to get us looking more organized within the first month, then i'll give him more time to prove what he can really do.So by definition he has a month.

[PeeJay]

I've never understood this "two seasons" or his "own team" stance. If the new Hibs manager has any idea of managing a football team like ours with its squad and its resources, he will have us playing some decent stuff and picking up more points than we lose relatively quickly (weeks). We should see signs of improvement in the first few games, if not something is wrong. The SPFL isn't the Bundesliga or the EPL, so it's not as if he's up against much ... guess that puts me fair and square in the "impatient camp" ...

[Hibercelona]

So by definition he has a month.

To get us looking organized. Yes.

[greenlex]

To get us looking organized. Yes.
So................if he doesnt???????

[blackpoolhibs]

He has a point though. If we've just got rid of a manager for not doing more with a good squad surely the next one should be able to pretty much right away?

Only if you believe we have a good squad, i personally dont. So Butcher will get the same time as Fenlon did with me.

[Hibercelona]

I've never understood this "two seasons" or his "own team" stance. If the new Hibs manager has any idea of managing a football team like ours with its squad and its resources, he will have us playing some decent stuff and picking up more points than we lose relatively quickly (weeks). We should see signs of improvement in the first few games, if not something is wrong. The SPFL isn't the Bundesliga or the EPL, so it's not as if he's up against much ... guess that puts me fair and square in the "impatient camp" ...

Precisely. :agree:

I don't think anybody is expecting us to be anywhere near our very best within a month of the manager being here, that would be insane to expect.

But signs that he can get us looking more organized and more positive going forward doesn't take a lot of time for a manager, if he's the correct appointment.

[Hibercelona]

So................if he doesnt???????

Then I won't be holding my breath.

[Jonnyboy]

Then I won't be holding my breath.

No, you said if he doesn't do it in a month then as far as you are concerned he never will

Look, we all want the new guy to succeed but we need to give him the chance to make his mark. One month is not long enough. We might fare better results wise but still look a tad disorganised while he susses out his best eleven etc. That's why I'm calling you out on the 'month' argument

[Mikey]

No, you said if he doesn't do it in a month then as far as you are concerned he never will

Look, we all want the new guy to succeed but we need to give him the chance to make his mark. One month is not long enough. We might fare better results wise but still look a tad disorganised while he susses out his best eleven etc. That's why I'm calling you out on the 'month' argument

You're wasting your time :wink:

[jane_says]

If a manager comes in who is capable, then why would it take any longer than a month to get a team of reasonable quality players to look organized?

The way I see it. A good manager wont need any longer than a month to get this squad looking more organized and composed.

So if the new guy comes in and for a month we play like we did on Sunday, what would you do? Get someone else in?

[Hibercelona]

No, you said if he doesn't do it in a month then as far as you are concerned he never will

Look, we all want the new guy to succeed but we need to give him the chance to make his mark. One month is not long enough. We might fare better results wise but still look a tad disorganised while he susses out his best eleven etc. That's why I'm calling you out on the 'month' argument

Do it? Do what?

All I want is to see players on the park that look like they've been given clear instructions by the manager.

A good manager will waste no time getting his instructions across to players. That should not take longer than a month.

I expect a good manager to get the basics of the basics right pretty quickly. It has nothing to do with him knowing his best tactics and strongest starting 11.

[brian6-2]

I've never understood this "two seasons" or his "own team" stance. If the new Hibs manager has any idea of managing a football team like ours with its squad and its resources, he will have us playing some decent stuff and picking up more points than we lose relatively quickly (weeks). We should see signs of improvement in the first few games, if not something is wrong. The SPFL isn't the Bundesliga or the EPL, so it's not as if he's up against much ... guess that puts me fair and square in the "impatient camp" ...

are you for real brah?

[brian6-2]

Do it? Do what?

All I want is to see players on the park that look like they've been given clear instructions by the manager.

A good manager will waste no time getting his instructions across to players. That should not take longer than a month.

I expect a good manager to get the basics of the basics right pretty quickly. It has nothing to do with him knowing his best tactics and strongest starting 11.

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jonnyboy]

Do it? Do what?

All I want is to see players on the park that look like they've been given clear instructions by the manager.

A good manager will waste no time getting his instructions across to players. That should not take longer than a month.

I expect a good manager to get the basics of the basics right pretty quickly. It has nothing to do with him knowing his best tactics and strongest starting 11.

Let's agree then.

1. We need to see improvement in organisation by the time he's been here a month

Let's disagree on

1. If he fails to meet your expectations then he'll never meet them

2. If he fails to meet your expectations I'll be prepared to live in the real world and give him longer

There, sorted

[Hibercelona]

So if the new guy comes in and for a month we play like we did on Sunday, what would you do? Get someone else in?

What excuse would any manager have for having us play the exact same way as Sunday 4-5 games in?

New manager should mean new approach and new tactics. It would make absolutely no sense to wait around and fail to change anything at all.

[brian6-2]

What excuse would any manager have for having us play the exact same way as Sunday 4-5 games in?

New manager should mean new approach and new tactics. It would make absolutely no sense to wait around and fail to change anything at all.

he can only pish with the cock he's got brah.

you may well see a change in attitude, but i dont think we will play massivley differentley to the way we have been, not untill he can have a bit of movement in the transfer window.

and thats almost 2/3 months away do you think you can give him that long?

[Jonnyboy]

he can only pish with the cock he's got brah.

you may well see a change in attitude, but i dont think we will play massivley differentley to the way we have been, not untill he can have a bit of movement in the transfer window.

No point in trying to introduce logic and common sense into the argument brian :wink:

[brian6-2]

No point in trying to introduce logic and common sense into the argument brian :wink:

couldnt agree more JB :agree::thumbsup:

[Northernhibee]

All this time we've known TB is going to be our new manager and we've not looked like creating ONE goalscoring opportunity.

Booooooooooooooo, GTF Butcher!

[Dashing Bob S]

Already I'm sensing that Butcher has more than outstayed his Easter Road welcome.

Get rid Rod.

[Northernhibee]

And STILL Vine has the #9 shirt!

****ing boooooooooooooooooooooooo Butcher, more like Pat Butcher etc etc

[Northernhibee]

Yer name's apt Butcher because you keep putting absolute mince on display!

Boooooooo!

[steakbake]

A few games to see how the team responds - half a season to see a difference in results - a full season to show that we're progressing. Two seasons to make a real impact. I think the telling feature of a good manager (as I see it from the armchair) is their ability to influence the tactics of the team on the pitch while the game is happening.

I honestly didn't see that with PF - we had one approach and when that didn't work, we had nothing in reserve. A pensive substitution here or there with a few minutes to go or resorting to hit and hope.

I've been frustrated in the past by the amount of time people seem willing to give a new man time for his team to gel. There are several managers in the league who have stepped in and not had the luxury of several windows to get their own men in on the team and have worked with what they've got.

I get the feeling that we won't see that with Butcher (if he comes to ER). I don't think he expects to be given several windows to get the team playing how he wants them to play. He's done a good job at Caley on far more restricted resources that we will offer him, he knows the Scottish game and insh'allah, he'll have the same players looking like a different team.

Look at Strachan and Scotland - pretty much the same squad barring one or two as Levein, but it's night and day.

[MWHIBBIES]

Until he leaves/is sacked from me, shouting and screaming at them really doesn't do anything.

[Keith_M]

Until May 31st, 2016.





.....or the first game we get beat by Hearts.

[snooky]

He gets a period of grace while he susses the squad. Say 3 months.
This is followed by a second period when he can try and get the best out of what he's got. Say 3 - 6 months.
Then there's the third and most dangerous period. He has half a season to bring his own players in and get us playing to an acceptable 'Hibs class' level.

If he doesn't - then it's booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooo.......

[hibbydog]

He should get until at least half time on Saturday

[Keith_M]

He should get until at least half time on Saturday


What if he's in the ICT dugout?

[down-the-slope]

Rest of this season........all of next.....beginning of next again....right up to eve of AGM 2015 :agree:

[Hibercelona]

There shouldn't be an ultimate deadline. Instead, there should be different targets set for individual periods of time.

I'd expect something across the lines of:

Month 1 - Build a strong working relationship with the squad and show you have the ability to get instructions across clearly to players.

Month 2 - Have players digging in and working hard for their place in the squad.

Month 3 - Identify your strongest starting 11.

Month 6 - Have each player playing to their strengths and building on those strengths in training. Have players competing hard to maintain or earn their place in the team.

Month 12 - Have team performing well as a unit through appropriate tactics.

Month 18 - Have team performing to a high enough standard to cement their place in the top 6.

Month 24 - Be regularly challenging for Europe and reaching Semis/Finals of cup competitions.

Not the perfect memo I know. But I think something across those lines would do.

[weonlywon6-2]

Just look for an improvement in the the way the team play. A bit of fighting spirit and i will be happy

[Since90+2]

We haven't even appointed a new manager yet and already we have a thread asking how long will he get if X Y Z happens.

You've got to laugh at this place sometimes.

[Hibercelona]

We haven't even appointed a new manager yet and already we have a thread asking how long will he get if X Y Z happens.

You've got to laugh at this place sometimes.

What difference does it make?

The same should apply to any manager regardless of who it is.

[lyonhibs]

He has a point though. If we've just got rid of a manager for not doing more with a good squad surely the next one should be able to pretty much right away?


Find myself agreeing-ish with this. Whilst far from perfect, the squad that Fenlon left is not the gawd-awful bunch of shysters/disinterested loan journeymen that Calderclown graced us with.

Butcher is a good manager with decent SPL experience. Football is - fundamentally - a rather simple game so I think there should be a "new manager bounce" effect ot some extent or another. God knows other teams frequently benefit from it!!

Our home league form in particular cannot continue for much longer under the new man.

[Franck Stanton]

Just look for an improvement in the the way the team play. A bit of fighting spirit and i will be happy
Me too.

[Jonnyboy]

There shouldn't be an ultimate deadline. Instead, there should be different targets set for individual periods of time.

I'd expect something across the lines of:

Month 1 - Build a strong working relationship with the squad and show you have the ability to get instructions across clearly to players.

Month 2 - Have players digging in and working hard for their place in the squad.

Month 3 - Identify your strongest starting 11.

Month 6 - Have each player playing to their strengths and building on those strengths in training. Have players competing hard to maintain or earn their place in the team.

Month 12 - Have team performing well as a unit through appropriate tactics.

Month 18 - Have team performing to a high enough standard to cement their place in the top 6.

Month 24 - Be regularly challenging for Europe and reaching Semis/Finals of cup competitions.

Not the perfect memo I know. But I think something across those lines would do.

I don't see the word organised in there :wink:

Dunno why you didn't post this six point plan to begin with. Would have saved us trading posts earlier

[Sir David Gray]

I'm going to guess that we'll be calling for the next manager to go, whoever that may be, in approximately 18-24 months' time.

So some time around May-November 2015.

That's been the average lifespan that each of our last 10 managers has had so I don't see the next one being any different.

[lord bunberry]

I doubt he will get anywhere near the 2 years that fenlon got. Expectations are definitely higher than when fenlon took over and he isn't inheriting the shambles fenlon inherited. I would have thought that he will be given the rest of this season to find his feet, but he will be expected to hit the ground running next season. Like it or not most fans won't want to hear about another rebuilding job.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm going to guess that we'll be calling for the next manager to go, whoever that may be, in approximately 18-24 months' time.

So some time around May-November 2015.

That's been the average lifespan that each of our last 10 managers has had so I don't see the next one being any different.

:agree:

[brian6-2]

Just a wee reminder to some of the negative nancys on this thread, its Hibs we support. Not real madrid. Get behind the manager (who ever is installed) get behind the club, and get behind the team. we have an important part to play as well, demanding instant success right away isnt the way forward and would never happen regardless of who is the gaffer.

Easter Road used to be a tough place to come, and that was partly down to us, the fans. lets create that again instead of sounding like a bunch of miserable huns/celtic fans and demanding instant success.

it will take time.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm going to guess that we'll be calling for the next manager to go, whoever that may be, in approximately 18-24 months' time.

So some time around May-November 2015.

That's been the average lifespan that each of our last 10 managers has had so I don't see the next one being any different.

:agree:

[Scouse Hibee]

Just a wee reminder to some of the negative nancys on this thread, its Hibs we support. Not real madrid. Get behind the manager (who ever is installed) get behind the club, and get behind the team. we have an important part to play as well, demanding instant success right away isnt the way forward and would never happen regardless of who is the gaffer.

Easter Road used to be a tough place to come, and that was partly down to us, the fans. lets create that again instead of sounding like a bunch of miserable huns/celtic fans and demanding instant success.

it will take time.

Is anyone really demanding instant success? I think we'd all be happy with some success in the future but surely no-one thinks it will come at the flick of a switch. My OP was based on the fact that football fans don't give a manager long enough and it's comical to see the calling for of someone's head after say 10 games which seems to happen frequently if results aren't instant. I'm sure we will all get behind the new manager whoever it is, we certainly wouldn't be following Hibs if instant success was our want................would we?

[Saorsa]

Is anyone really demanding instant success? I think we'd all be happy with some success in the future but surely no-one thinks it will come at the flick of a switch. My OP was based on the fact that football fans don't give a manager long enough and it's comical to see the calling for of someone's head after say 10 games which seems to happen frequently if results aren't instant. I'm sure we will all get behind the new manager whoever it is, we certainly wouldn't be following Hibs if instant success was our want................would we?As long as I'm still alive when it happens :thumbsup:


or any :greengrin

[SouthamptonHibs]

I think the new manager should be judged after the new year derby!
Win = he stays, Draw or Lose = he is punted.
Managers should be warned lose the derby and yer out, draw a derby v those creaton' s as they are = punted.
Tin hat on now hail hail

[Scouse Hibee]

Thought I would bring this one back up to see how some of the comments relate to progress so far. And before anyone asks it's not a sack the manager thread.

[Jonnyboy]

Thought I would bring this one back up to see how some of the comments relate to progress so far. And before anyone asks it's not a sack the manager thread.

My thoughts are that some folk are being too quick to judge him. Obviously there's a lot of focus on the last four games but before that we suffered just one defeat in nine. That latter stat kinda proves we did indeed get the initial lift that some say we didn't.

He's now had the chance to bring in three new faces, Watmore seeming to have hit the ground running. One poster has written Haynes off, after 30 minutes as a sub in a team that was playing badly. Boateng is one we still need to see.

I know folk keep saying 'not another plea to be patient', but frankly we've got no choice!

It saddens me too, to read of folk not bothering to come to games because our 'season is over.' Does this mean they only support us when we're winning? Yes the football hasn't always been good to watch but it will get better, I'm certain

[weonlywon6-2]

its all down to how the team perform.take a look at dundee united,scoring for fun then losing game after game.
if they continue to do that there fans will stay with jackie m.
the rest of the season will be interesting,i feel we will pick up as there is now no pressure on the team on the run in.
still hope we go to the wonga and a win will relegate them.for good

[Saturdays Hero]

I would give Butcher atleast 24 months,the whole squad needs complete overhauling,were dross now but I dread to think were we'd be if Butcher isn't given time,the current crop just aren't good enough to consistently give good performances which was evident long before Butcher arrived.

[HoboHarry]

There shouldn't be an ultimate deadline. Instead, there should be different targets set for individual periods of time.

I'd expect something across the lines of:

Month 1 - Build a strong working relationship with the squad and show you have the ability to get instructions across clearly to players.

Month 2 - Have players digging in and working hard for their place in the squad.

Month 3 - Identify your strongest starting 11.

Month 6 - Have each player playing to their strengths and building on those strengths in training. Have players competing hard to maintain or earn their place in the team.

Month 12 - Have team performing well as a unit through appropriate tactics.

Month 18 - Have team performing to a high enough standard to cement their place in the top 6.

Month 24 - Be regularly challenging for Europe and reaching Semis/Finals of cup competitions.

Not the perfect memo I know. But I think something across those lines would do.

I believe that was what TB was quoted as saying when he arrived - that it would be an 18 month project. Funny how the hysterical drama Queens on this forum never mention that.....

[The Sea-gull]

I believe that was what TB was quoted as saying when he arrived - that it would be an 18 month project. Funny how the hysterical drama Queens on this forum never mention that.....

Not sure if I am classed as a hysterical drama queen but I mentioned exactly that on this thread back in November and on a couple yesterday. Butcher should have us minimum top 6 by end of season 2014/15 otherwise he's not done a good job. Absolutely no reason why this should not be possible. A fair and realistic target IMHO.

[Ronniekirk]

Not sure if I am classed as a hysterical drama queen but I mentioned exactly that on this thread back in November and on a couple yesterday. Butcher should have us minimum top 6 by end of season 2014/15 otherwise he's not done a good job. Absolutely no reason why this should not be possible. A fair and realistic target IMHO.

No problem with that ,just wondered on back of recent performances when he doesn't as yet seem to know what his best 11 is and they aren't digging in and fighting for results should he be promising us top six this season If he doesn't achieve it he could loose some credibility .He now has to get a reaction from players against Ross county and Killie who will both think they can beat us and aim to get above us so he has firmly laid the Gauntlet down to the players ,let's hope they have the bottle to respond .For his part T B has to get team selection right .

[Hibs90]

For me, a full season with his own players/team.

[The Sea-gull]

No problem with that ,just wondered on back of recent performances when he doesn't as yet seem to know what his best 11 is and they aren't digging in and fighting for results should he be promising us top six this season If he doesn't achieve it he could loose some credibility .He now has to get a reaction from players against Ross county and Killie who will both think they can beat us and aim to get above us so he has firmly laid the Gauntlet down to the players ,let's hope they have the bottle to respond .For his part T B has to get team selection right .
Agree 100. He has to say all that really but it is only talk. I can only speak for myself but I'll not give terry a hard time if we finish bottom 6 this season as he took over during the season and hasn't really got his own players in yet. A couple of mid season loans don't really count. I will give him a hard time if we are not top 6 by end of next season though. 18 months, no hearts, no rangers, is more than enough to get hibs top 6. Let's not forget, when pat took over we were relegation candidates. Terry doesn't have that excuse to fall back on. We were a lower mid table team when he took over so if he is a good boss making us an upper mid table team at least within 18 months should be well within his grasp.

[blackpoolhibs]

No problem with that ,just wondered on back of recent performances when he doesn't as yet seem to know what his best 11 is and they aren't digging in and fighting for results should he be promising us top six this season If he doesn't achieve it he could loose some credibility .He now has to get a reaction from players against Ross county and Killie who will both think they can beat us and aim to get above us so he has firmly laid the Gauntlet down to the players ,let's hope they have the bottle to respond .For his part T B has to get team selection right .

Do you know what our best 11 are, as i sure as hell dont. And i have been supporting Hibs a lot longer than Terry's been at the club.

His squad are full of very average players, all much of a muchness. They are all capable of the odd good bit of play, but can never sustain it over a long period.

What is his best 11 this week could be his worst 11 in a months time, he's working with Fenlons dross.

[SaulGoodman]

He should at least get as long as Fenlon got here.

[Eyrie]

I'll be disappointed if we don't make the top six this year.

That said, I'll give Butcher the same length of time I gave Fenlon, which isn't the tail end of the season that he's appointed, nor even next season, but a few games into 2015/16 because by that point he will have had two summers to reshape the entire squad.

Unless of course we are honking this time next year, in which case I'm going to delete this post and say he should go immediately and should never have been appointed in the first place.

[BOB MARLEYS DUG]

For me, a full season with his own players/team.

:agree:

[Aldo]

As long as it takes for me.

Was speaking with an ex player today and he's if the opinion that a club of our size needs stability and not changed every other season. He also says Marsella is excellent at finding good quality players from lower league and that will stand us in very good stead.

[Ronniekirk]

As long as it takes for me.

Was speaking with an ex player today and he's if the opinion that a club of our size needs stability and not changed every other season. He also says Marsella is excellent at finding good quality players from lower league and that will stand us in very good stead.

Thought you must of had a lost weekend in The Lang Toon :rolleyes:

[wookie70]

Hibs had stability under Alex Miler. We were that stable his Bairns grew up and started playing for us.

We need a good manager, the problem is if we get one he will probably be tempted away to bigger and better things. The only way we will be stable is if we plan for succession or if we employ someone and continue to be pish. Butcher was most fans choice and I think he will do well. If he does really well I hope he stays at ER but I imagine the ICT fans thought the same when he took up post with them.

[Aldo]

Thought you must of had a lost weekend in The Lang Toon :rolleyes:

No mate at Center Parks in Penrith. Chilling with family. Chilling be the word as it's freezing. :-)

[Ronniekirk]

No mate at Center Parks in Penrith. Chilling with family. Chilling be the word as it's freezing. :-)

I was on the island of Arran It was so stormy on the Ferry I lost my sea legs Don't know which was worse that or then finding out the Scottish cup result

[Aldo]

I was on the island of Arran It was so stormy on the Ferry I lost my sea legs Don't know which was worse that or then finding out the Scottish cup result

Ha ha both. I was in navy 6 years and never found mine. SC result was woeful

[Blaster]

I think he did know his best 11 or certainly the vast majority until the st mirren game when hanlon was missing and mcgivern got injured early. We've never recovered from that.

The best 11 and available 11 are totally different.

[Ronniekirk]

I think he did know his best 11 or certainly the vast majority until the st mirren game when hanlon was missing and mcgivern got injured early. We've never recovered from that.

The best 11 and available 11 are totally different.

Agree with that ,Craig is suspended so judging by folk on here's views of how he has been playing that gives TB an opportunity to see how we do without him.However with Robertson also injured it is going to be another new midfield and McGivern is still out , that's before he looks at who should be up front .Don t envy him picking the team for Ross county game .But sometimes in adversity players pull together more

[Blaster]

Agree with that ,Craig is suspended so judging by folk on here's views of how he has been playing that gives TB an opportunity to see how we do without him.However with Robertson also injured it is going to be another new midfield and McGivern is still out , that's before he looks at who should be up front .Don t envy him picking the team for Ross county game .But sometimes in adversity players pull together more

Hopefully they will mate

[leggeto]

The manager has to get his own team on the park to be judged especially at this level

[patlowe]

It is interesting that these discussions so often revolve around the concept of time. There are so many issues that should be taken into account and balanced when deciding whether a manager is up to the job or not: results; previous record; injuries; relationship with the fans; transfer policy etc etc. Ideally, I'd like to see us give a manager a reasonable amount of time to prove his worth, while taking account all the other variables which might indicate, one way or the other, whether he is the right man for Hibs. For example, if a manager is ripping the heart out of the club and showing no sign of turning results around or willingness to relate to the supporters (ie Calderwood), then you have to act and get rid ASAP to protect the club. You get a guy like Butcher, who displays great enthusiasm, has a good track record in the SPL, has already beaten Hearts etc and I'm more inclined to give him an extended period to get it right.

[Scouse Hibee]

A new manager comes in and if he's not achieved anything or is winless in say 10 games, I guess the knives will be out. What's your minimum expectation of a new manager?

Yes I know this question comes from someone who has written Zoubir off after 6 games :greengrin


I wasn't that far out :rolleyes:

[Scouse Hibee]

The title of this post ' how long does he get' sums up what is wrong with us. Instant results are expected and it is wholly unrealistic. We are on our 10th manager in 16 years and it is a joke. Sure some deserved to go but in all honestly how can we build for the future with this attitude. the new guy (and the players) need our support. Minimum 2 years absolute minimum.


I decided to bring this thread I started back up, plenty of like the post above said give him 2 seasons............................opinions changed yet have they? :greengrin

[Onion]

Butcher has been given waaayyy more slack than previous managers as fans realise we needed stability, that he has a bit if bite about him and did a decent job at ICT. But that didn't include humiliation and the worst record since Duff Jimmy. Relegation in the season of all seasons is a ****ing catastrophe. Sometimes events overtake you and transcend everything else our relegation is one such event. Butcher is finished at Hibs. He has no future and it is just a matter of getting rid so we can get on with trying to repair the damage he has done to our club. Still on shock over events 3 days later!

[eggbamyasi]

I was sure I replied on this thread cant see it though mabey diff one .my opinion hasnt really changed . Still thinks need to be given full season with own players which looks like he will be and what a test it will be for him lol . Only thing for me majorly is how the players have disgraced the club . Where before I stood up for some of them .

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[#2 Double Tap]

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