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View Full Version : The "Hibs have a strong squad" Myth !



The Voice Of Reason
03-11-2013, 09:44 PM
I keep reading and hearing about us having a decent squad with good players for the new manager (whoever he is) to work with.

I disagree with this :-

Decent keeper - I'll concede that

Defence - we are ok, but nowt special - we lack pace

Midfield - our players are too similar - we lack pace

Wingers - with Harris injured we don't really have any! We lack pace

Forwards - vine and Collins are really poor. Heff is ok - we lack pace

Youngsters - are there any decent ones coming through ?!?!?!

So as far as I'm concerned Fenlon hasn't assembled a great squad and major changes (once again!) are required.

Thoughts ?

Fergus52
03-11-2013, 09:47 PM
We don't lack pace in defence. Defenders don't need to be particularly fast and apart from Nelson and Maybury none of our defenders are slow.

Our midfield just needs someone with a bit of creativity (or Robertson moved back inside)

Outwide I'm pretty happy with Zoubir and Harris.

We could do with another good striker if Collins fails to find form.

Major changes aren't required at all.

With a bit of tinkering a good manager would have this squad coming second.

DAVE1875
03-11-2013, 09:49 PM
Hibs have a strong squad?



http://images.wikia.com/mythbusters/images/archive/6/63/20110903063420!Busted.png

hibsbollah
03-11-2013, 09:50 PM
Its not a myth, its an opinion.

The Voice Of Reason
03-11-2013, 09:52 PM
Its not a myth, its an opinion.

Is it your opinion ?

Hibercelona
03-11-2013, 09:55 PM
Nah, I don't think we have a strong squad either.

I think the squad we have are capable of performing better with better management, but I still don't think they'll be up to the standard that we should be aiming for.

edwards
03-11-2013, 09:55 PM
Assembling a team and getting them to play as a team isn't easy as we have witnessed for god knows how long now. I would say we have an improved squad, and if we put the right manager in charge he can possibly fine tune the team and make his mind up who he wants to keep and who will go.
Pick a cheap option or the wrong man to lead the team and we will be up for relegation next season and thats a fact.

SouthamptonHibs
03-11-2013, 09:57 PM
I keep reading and hearing about us having a decent squad with good players for the new manager (whoever he is) to work with.

I disagree with this :-
TrY
Decent keeper - I'll concede that

Defence - we are ok, but nowt special - we lack pace

Midfield - our players are too similar - we lack pace

Wingers - with Harris injured we don't really have any! We lack pace

Forwards - vine and Collins are really poor. Heff is ok - we lack pace

Youngsters - are there any decent ones coming through ?!?!?!

So as far as I'm concerned Fenlon hasn't assembled a great squad and major changes (once again!) are required.

Thoughts ?

100% agree with your assessment, we have zero pace in the team

hihohibby
03-11-2013, 10:04 PM
I keep reading and hearing about us having a decent squad with good players for the new manager (whoever he is) to work with.

I disagree with this :-

Thoughts ?

I agree. We have an average squad of players, some of whom are (at best) SPL standard, and some of whom are (at best) 2nd tier standard. If our squad was "decent", we would not be getting beat by the worst Hearts team in living memory, or by your Ross County's (and teams of that ilk) with a fraction of our resources. Standards have dropped alarmingly at Easter road to the point that some supporters genuinely believe that your Hanlon's and Stevenson's are "quality players!" These two players are hard working, but that's about it. Being hard working and committed does not equate to being good or indeed, being "quality".

GreenCastle
03-11-2013, 10:04 PM
I keep reading and hearing about us having a decent squad with good players for the new manager (whoever he is) to work with.

I disagree with this :-

Decent keeper - I'll concede that

Defence - we are ok, but nowt special - we lack pace

Midfield - our players are too similar - we lack pace

Wingers - with Harris injured we don't really have any! We lack pace

Forwards - vine and Collins are really poor. Heff is ok - we lack pace

Youngsters - are there any decent ones coming through ?!?!?!

So as far as I'm concerned Fenlon hasn't assembled a great squad and major changes (once again!) are required.

Thoughts ?

:agree:

Been saying this for a while.

We have a solid keeper - something we have been lacking for years - his weakness is crosses but I still think we should look to resign him next season as his presence and shot stopping is a plus.

Back 4 - McGiven is a CB playing left back - Nelson is just a more reliable McPake - Hanlon needs help alongside him. The right back area is a concern - Clancy / Mullen / Maybury (nearly not kept on - except due to coaching - but has been our best right back!!). Stevenson - does his best - but not a right back.

Midfield - without Harris - lack of pace - creativity and too many players who want to run the show be the main guy = not getting the best out of players like Craig as he doesn't compliment Thompson.

Strikers - Collins - never close to 200k - Vine - don't get me started - Handling - seen some improvements but Harris has done more in less time to impress. Caldwell - needs games - slightly better than Handling but not at the level of Harris. Heff I like but needs support from behind and alongside him.

I believe we need a natural right back who stays fit and can get up and down the right and cross the ball.

A CREATIVE centre midfielder - Latapy quality may be difficult to find but there are players who can pick a final pass who we could get.

Wide Players - who dribble and go past players - Harris is one - Cairney did it a bit last season but is slow.

Strikers who work together and create - score goals - maybe not LG level but at least look dangerous and not one paced and predictable every time they get it.

Pretty Boy
03-11-2013, 10:07 PM
Some good players. Not a great squad imo.

A lot of work to be done. Again.

Andy74
03-11-2013, 10:08 PM
Some good players. Not a great squad imo.

A lot of work to be done. Again.

Funny. Wasn't the chat last week that the manager wasn't making good enough use of an excellent squad?

Which is it?

Iain G
03-11-2013, 10:09 PM
There is the basis there for a good SPL squad but it is still one or two players short of getting there who would elevate it up a level.

The Voice Of Reason
03-11-2013, 10:14 PM
Funny. Wasn't the chat last week that the manager wasn't making good enough use of an excellent squad?

Which is it?

I have certainly never said that !!!!! :aok:

Pretty Boy
03-11-2013, 10:14 PM
Funny. Wasn't the chat last week that the manager wasn't making good enough use of an excellent squad?

Which is it?

May have been the opinion of some. Not mine though.

I think a new manager can get more out the current squad, i think he is inheriting a better situation than Fenlon did but there is still a fairly big job to be done.

All my opinion of course.

IberianHibernian
03-11-2013, 10:23 PM
2 words , decent and squad and 2 aspects . " Decent " comapred with most other teams in our league , not compared with teams and squads that McLeish and his successors had ( each manager has had to work with a weaker team and squad as level of Scottish football has dropped , someting detractors of Fenlon seem to ignore when talking about massive " backing " he allegedly had from board ) . "Squad " - a year ago we were nearly top of the league but it was obvious things would start to go wrong after a few injuries and suspensions as happened . This year , after losing our 2 best players ( 2 irreplaceable players on current budget ) we probably have a weaker team but have a stronger squad in terms of numbers , just as well considering the number of players who`ve had serious injuries ( Harris , Clancy , Cairney , Nelson , etc ) or hardly been fully fit this season ( McGivern , Mullen , etc ) . On first point I admit I don`t know much about other teams but like us none of them have players who really stick out .

truehibernian
03-11-2013, 10:28 PM
We don't lack pace in defence. Defenders don't need to be particularly fast and apart from Nelson and Maybury none of our defenders are slow.

Our midfield just needs someone with a bit of creativity (or Robertson moved back inside)

Outwide I'm pretty happy with Zoubir and Harris.

We could do with another good striker if Collins fails to find form.

Major changes aren't required at all.

With a bit of tinkering a good manager would have this squad coming second.

Tell you what, even now, AM is not slow - watch the game again from today and second half when I think Anier tried to get away from him with a 5 yard start - Alan caught him and then some (pace wise.....the tackles came later :greengrin).

The balance was all skewed today - our right flank didn't have the nerve to really commit, whereas our left flank committed and left themselves exposed because Lewis doesn't take on and get by players - he worked really hard but he slowed play down by not driving down the flank, instead he came inside or looked for the pass inside and square. Maybury remained pretty safe and held a defensive line, whereas Robbo wanted to commit and attack - but again often came inside.

This is not great when you lose the ball......as your players are all pretty much in a cluster up top, leaving 3 at the back over the width of the pitch......which is when we were getting caught out because the gap between Paul and Jordan was too vast, covering the space left by Ryan. There was also indecision from our centre halves to either commit or stand off, which I hate seeing.

Hibs will lose games against teams that play with width and pace up front - we don't have the balance correct in either defence or midfield and we have nobody at present that can take the ball wide, commit, get past players and draw defenders. We play narrow, pedestrian and slow. Last 15 minutes we had urgency but that was a combination of 'Well having injuries to key players and having to tactically regroup and getting a lot of the ball in the final third unopposed.

I'm very very despondent about Hibs at the moment and cannot see light at the end of this tunnel - there are no (senior) players that can come in and really change the dynamic, which is frightening. Cairney looks bereft of confidence, Harris out until after Xmas, Clancy.......who the **** knows with him.

Josh Carson has hit the ground running at York, Lyle Taylor would have been frightening in the SPFL, McCourt comes in, trains and leaves, same as the scorer today......Wylde chooses Aberdeen over us as does Flood. Something very very very wrong at Hibernian - he gave an interview today, that is who !

Eternal Hibbie
03-11-2013, 10:29 PM
In comparative terms we do have a strong squad - for the league we play in.

The vast majority of our squad would be there or thereabouts for a first team spot at any other club in the spfl outwith Celtic.

It's not the quality of the players that's the issue its the way they're utilised.

Granted we have several duplicate types particularly in the middle of the park and we lack a bit pace but there's nothing intrinsically wrong that a new manager couldn't sort with a couple of clever signings - we'll see.

Just my opinion.

blackpoolhibs
03-11-2013, 10:36 PM
Have said the very same thing all season, for all the same reasons and some more.

Geo_1875
04-11-2013, 07:39 AM
People often mistake a big squad for a good squad. Pat often said we had competition for every position but when players are of a similar level it's not really competition. We just don't have any standout performers this season. However, there are 3 or 4 that can take control of games if they allplay to their potential at the same time. It will happen.

Unseen work
04-11-2013, 07:48 AM
When everyone is fit and performing well we have a strong squad, unfortunately for us the ones not playing well and that are injured are the ones we need the most right now - the creative and attacking players

As for youngsters - Forster Harris and handling. For me I'm not convinced about Caldwell but he has proved he can score when given a chance but getting 8 mins every month is no good. And not seen enough of Stanton at this level but based on under 20s I would say he will get in the team when ready as he is a real talent. Then you have cummings who has scored 19 goals this season already and is 18. Along with the left back baptie who has been very impressive

Matt92
04-11-2013, 07:55 AM
2 years ago under Calderwood (may your career end in abject failure) we had:

Stack
Hanlon O'Hnalon Murray Towell
Palsson Scott Osbourne Wotherspoon
Agogo O'Connor

We have a pretty long way since then so I am thankful for the squad we have.

We have a good SPL standard Defence with a very good GK. A very good centre midfield with a lot of depth, but we have a real lack of pace out wide and up front...we have Harris still to come back though and if him, Handling, Zoubir and Cairney can all become available we are covered in this area.

Up front, Collins has been a disappointment to date but lets not forget it took Leigh over a year to click! Collins shows some intelligent play so willing to give him time, the Heff is a good old-fashioned SPL poacher and Vine...well...he is awful.

Onion
04-11-2013, 08:10 AM
I agree. We have an average squad of players, some of whom are (at best) SPL standard, and some of whom are (at best) 2nd tier standard. If our squad was "decent", we would not be getting beat by the worst Hearts team in living memory, or by your Ross County's (and teams of that ilk) with a fraction of our resources. Standards have dropped alarmingly at Easter road to the point that some supporters genuinely believe that your Hanlon's and Stevenson's are "quality players!" These two players are hard working, but that's about it. Being hard working and committed does not equate to being good or indeed, being "quality".

Agree 100% with your Hanlon and Stevenson comment. These two have been a common link in 6 years of garbage, losing football. No one else wants them for good reason. Petrie has made Hibs a charity club for waifs and strays.

Geo_1875
04-11-2013, 08:19 AM
Yet we are regularly beaten by average teams who work hard.

shearer1981
04-11-2013, 08:19 AM
Williams is a good goalie. Agree he's about as useful with crosses as that pr*ck Van Helsing.
RB - Maybury for now but need a new one - heard Mullen has rotten attitude. Work on him as he's young or punt him.
CB - Nelson - He is like a piece of iron.
CB - Hanlon - He looks my Nana ironing but generally will come good.
LB - McGivern - Loads of potential. At fault today for Mwell goal and has capacity to not track crosses well (Falkirk game last year). Generally best defensive prospect we have. Would excel with a bit of class back there to help (Sauzee type).

(McPake needs to get fitter, I do like him but his form really dipped last year). Lewis is a hard worker but so's my washing machine. I think its time he moved on for the sake of his career so he can play midfield (where he wants) elsewhere.

3x CM - Fenlon brought in about 24,000 players for this position. Thomson is an easy pick as he's the best passer of the ball in the team. Taiwo is there to break up play but I'd have OTJ or Robertson in there for that - Taiwo is vintage mediocre and there's better than him in there. It has to be Robertson OR Craig (they are probs as good as each other so either play both central or drop 1 of them). Robertson's as much a winger as I am a hoover

CM Thomson
CM Robertson
CM Craig

This leaves 3 positions and we dont have 1 decent striker other than Heff who was complete afterthought. Vine is a huddy who thinks he's gods gift - total clown of a laddie! That said he has a swagger and maybe we need that (Lafferty is a clown for example but a useful mammal at times). Collins looks the part but somethings just no right there at all - hope a new manager can identify it cos if he's worth 200k then Heff must be 1.5m as he's the best of the lot.

I'd play Heff through the middle with Craig behind and 2 wingers - Harris & Zoubi.

So bench would be
McPake
Mullen
OTJ or Robertson
Collins
Vine
Handling
Caldwell

Thoughts? By the way all we lack really is pace and balance - if we went with above I think we'd tear up some buttocks.
GGTTH

The rest on the bench but we need to stop picking the players then deciding the formation - no balance at all.

I'd take Mowbray back - not sure about Butcher would rather Stuart McCall. If I'm being greedy I'd love hibs to splash big and get a top drawer appointment with a view to a long term deal (ie moved upstairs if it goes bristols up) Im thinking Redknapp, Tigana, Latapy - someone with flair as the SPFL is pretty tosh.

Cropley10
04-11-2013, 10:17 AM
Tell you what, even now, AM is not slow - watch the game again from today and second half when I think Anier tried to get away from him with a 5 yard start - Alan caught him and then some (pace wise.....the tackles came later :greengrin).

The balance was all skewed today - our right flank didn't have the nerve to really commit, whereas our left flank committed and left themselves exposed because Lewis doesn't take on and get by players - he worked really hard but he slowed play down by not driving down the flank, instead he came inside or looked for the pass inside and square. Maybury remained pretty safe and held a defensive line, whereas Robbo wanted to commit and attack - but again often came inside.

This is not great when you lose the ball......as your players are all pretty much in a cluster up top, leaving 3 at the back over the width of the pitch......which is when we were getting caught out because the gap between Paul and Jordan was too vast, covering the space left by Ryan. There was also indecision from our centre halves to either commit or stand off, which I hate seeing.

Hibs will lose games against teams that play with width and pace up front - we don't have the balance correct in either defence or midfield and we have nobody at present that can take the ball wide, commit, get past players and draw defenders. We play narrow, pedestrian and slow. Last 15 minutes we had urgency but that was a combination of 'Well having injuries to key players and having to tactically regroup and getting a lot of the ball in the final third unopposed.

I'm very very despondent about Hibs at the moment and cannot see light at the end of this tunnel - there are no (senior) players that can come in and really change the dynamic, which is frightening. Cairney looks bereft of confidence, Harris out until after Xmas, Clancy.......who the **** knows with him.

Josh Carson has hit the ground running at York, Lyle Taylor would have been frightening in the SPFL, McCourt comes in, trains and leaves, same as the scorer today......Wylde chooses Aberdeen over us as does Flood. Something very very very wrong at Hibernian - he gave an interview today, that is who !

Great analysis of the current team and yesterday's game.

The part I've highlighted in bold is interesting and is, you say, worrying.

I feel there's a misconception about footballers at times, so whilst they're money-driven ('it's a short career... etc') they also evaluate teams and options based on a number of things, including I'm sure; potential of the team and squad - are they playing with good players, does the team look balanced, is there a good team-spirit etc, training - if they've trained what was the 'set-up' like, what was the Coaching and format like, what's the style of football like, and does it suit them, do they stand a chance of being a real part of that. They're also going to to consider the opportunity to win something and whether the Manager is likely to change anytime soon.

So, if you take McCourt and Flood as examples, it's quite possible that neither fancied Hibs, because neither of them actually fancied working for Pat Fenlon.

Equally it's possible that a new manager - say Butcher, or Sheils - would create a different scenario.

If RP has too larger presence within EM and ER and that inhibits our Managers then, sooner or later, this will have to change. We need a proper manager, someone with a big personality and experience, with an ego, someone who's not going to be 'bullied'. I don't see how RP can go an recruit another one with potential, or is a 'safe pair of hands', he's tried that and it's failed, and we've pretty much exhausted all managers with Hibs connections.

Pretty Boy
04-11-2013, 10:48 AM
Tell you what, even now, AM is not slow - watch the game again from today and second half when I think Anier tried to get away from him with a 5 yard start - Alan caught him and then some (pace wise.....the tackles came later :greengrin).

The balance was all skewed today - our right flank didn't have the nerve to really commit, whereas our left flank committed and left themselves exposed because Lewis doesn't take on and get by players - he worked really hard but he slowed play down by not driving down the flank, instead he came inside or looked for the pass inside and square. Maybury remained pretty safe and held a defensive line, whereas Robbo wanted to commit and attack - but again often came inside.

This is not great when you lose the ball......as your players are all pretty much in a cluster up top, leaving 3 at the back over the width of the pitch......which is when we were getting caught out because the gap between Paul and Jordan was too vast, covering the space left by Ryan. There was also indecision from our centre halves to either commit or stand off, which I hate seeing.

Hibs will lose games against teams that play with width and pace up front - we don't have the balance correct in either defence or midfield and we have nobody at present that can take the ball wide, commit, get past players and draw defenders. We play narrow, pedestrian and slow. Last 15 minutes we had urgency but that was a combination of 'Well having injuries to key players and having to tactically regroup and getting a lot of the ball in the final third unopposed.

I'm very very despondent about Hibs at the moment and cannot see light at the end of this tunnel - there are no (senior) players that can come in and really change the dynamic, which is frightening. Cairney looks bereft of confidence, Harris out until after Xmas, Clancy.......who the **** knows with him.

Josh Carson has hit the ground running at York, Lyle Taylor would have been frightening in the SPFL, McCourt comes in, trains and leaves, same as the scorer today......Wylde chooses Aberdeen over us as does Flood. Something very very very wrong at Hibernian - he gave an interview today, that is who !

Pretty accurate summary imo.

DJ HIBBY
04-11-2013, 10:57 AM
I keep reading and hearing about us having a decent squad with good players for the new manager (whoever he is) to work with.

I disagree with this :-

Decent keeper - I'll concede that

Defence - we are ok, but nowt special - we lack pace

Midfield - our players are too similar - we lack pace

Wingers - with Harris injured we don't really have any! We lack pace

Forwards - vine and Collins are really poor. Heff is ok - we lack pace

Youngsters - are there any decent ones coming through ?!?!?!

So as far as I'm concerned Fenlon hasn't assembled a great squad and major changes (once again!) are required.

Thoughts ?


To be honest I am now leaning this way too. At the start of the season after watching our very first game at Dumbarton, I would have liked to have seen us work with mixing the good youth players combined with Thomson, Robertson and Craig. At Dumbarton there was clearly an understanding between Handling, Caldwell and Harris. I think given a run, they would have been a formidable trio with Robertson and Craig alongside side them. Instead we went out and signed that huddy Vine who in my opinion brings zero to the party except that god awful beard which draws even more attention to him. We then blew a sizeable chunk of our budget on Collins who isnt that much older than Caldwell and Handling. I would have liked us to sign an experienced pro to help the forwards develop, similar to that of Brewster with O'Connor a few years ago. Perhaps Heffernan can help these players develop?

All hindsight now but I would still like to see these 3 given a run (when all fit).

Thoughts?

GreenCastle
04-11-2013, 11:06 AM
Williams is a good goalie. Agree he's about as useful with crosses as that pr*ck Van Helsing.
RB - Maybury for now but need a new one - heard Mullen has rotten attitude. Work on him as he's young or punt him.
CB - Nelson - He is like a piece of iron.
CB - Hanlon - He looks my Nana ironing but generally will come good.
LB - McGivern - Loads of potential. At fault today for Mwell goal and has capacity to not track crosses well (Falkirk game last year). Generally best defensive prospect we have. Would excel with a bit of class back there to help (Sauzee type).

(McPake needs to get fitter, I do like him but his form really dipped last year). Lewis is a hard worker but so's my washing machine. I think its time he moved on for the sake of his career so he can play midfield (where he wants) elsewhere.

3x CM - Fenlon brought in about 24,000 players for this position. Thomson is an easy pick as he's the best passer of the ball in the team. Taiwo is there to break up play but I'd have OTJ or Robertson in there for that - Taiwo is vintage mediocre and there's better than him in there. It has to be Robertson OR Craig (they are probs as good as each other so either play both central or drop 1 of them). Robertson's as much a winger as I am a hoover

CM Thomson
CM Robertson
CM Craig

This leaves 3 positions and we dont have 1 decent striker other than Heff who was complete afterthought. Vine is a huddy who thinks he's gods gift - total clown of a laddie! That said he has a swagger and maybe we need that (Lafferty is a clown for example but a useful mammal at times). Collins looks the part but somethings just no right there at all - hope a new manager can identify it cos if he's worth 200k then Heff must be 1.5m as he's the best of the lot.

I'd play Heff through the middle with Craig behind and 2 wingers - Harris & Zoubi.

So bench would be
McPake
Mullen
OTJ or Robertson
Collins
Vine
Handling
Caldwell

Thoughts? By the way all we lack really is pace and balance - if we went with above I think we'd tear up some buttocks.
GGTTH

The rest on the bench but we need to stop picking the players then deciding the formation - no balance at all.


The part in bold I really agree with - in many games he has been at fault for back post crosses - Cup final against Celtic was another instance.

Regarding McGivern as CH - I like him at LB but think we looked more solid when he played CH alongside Hanlon - we played a higher line as he wasn't worried (like Neslon and McPake are) about pace and the ball over the top. He also likes to get on the ball more than long diagonal Nelson / McPake

heretoday
04-11-2013, 11:12 AM
I'd like to clear the whole squad out apart from Harris. They're all tainted with the stench of failure.

Leishy1995
04-11-2013, 11:25 AM
Josh Carson has hit the ground running at York, Lyle Taylor would have been frightening in the SPFL, McCourt comes in, trains and leaves, same as the scorer today......Wylde chooses Aberdeen over us as does Flood. Something very very very wrong at Hibernian - he gave an interview today, that is who !

Josh Carson hit the ground running in the bottom 5 of league 2. That's not really impressive.

Lyle Taylor wouldn't have been frightening in the SPFL, at least there's no garuntee as he was unproven.

McCourt obviously never wanted to join Hibs. Or he got offered more at Barnsley. Having watched him at them he's the main man there and would like him at Hibs.

Wylde, there was rumours about it all the time but we don't know if we were ever in for him or flood. Just because they went to Aberdeen doesn't mean they rejected us. Pat might never have wanted him.

southsider
04-11-2013, 11:39 AM
Williams - good shot stopper but suspect at crosses. McPake - bomb scare. Hanlon - too soft. McGivern - decent enough. Stevenson - ok but not good enough for top flight. Midfield all pretty similar (how old is Latapy lol) Collins - bad junior. Vine - who ever scouted him should be sacked. We have too many crap players who are guttless. TB (or whoever) needs a clearout (again)

inglisavhibs
04-11-2013, 12:23 PM
This is the myth! :greengrin McGivern is a left back. He has played almost all of his career at left back, except for a handful of games when he has been needed for cover. He played left back for Man City and I'm pretty sure he plays left back for NI too. He's good to have as cover for emergencies at centre half but he is a left back. (And a decent one on form too).

He is good when fit. He can give a lot more to the team than his current form/fitness levels. On the overall strength of the squad, it's obvious we need a new right back (Mayberry is our best by a mile just now). We also need a couple of wide midfielders who have a bit pace. Moving Robertson in to central midfield also gives us someone who can run in behind a teams back four. A more balanced team might just help Collins and Heferman show a bit form. There is work to be done but it might not be a huge task to get us competitive.

stevejordan
04-11-2013, 12:38 PM
I keep reading and hearing about us having a decent squad with good players for the new manager (whoever he is) to work with.

I disagree with this :-

Decent keeper - I'll concede that

Defence - we are ok, but nowt special - we lack pace

Midfield - our players are too similar - we lack pace

Wingers - with Harris injured we don't really have any! We lack pace

Forwards - vine and Collins are really poor. Heff is ok - we lack pace

Youngsters - are there any decent ones coming through ?!?!?!

So as far as I'm concerned Fenlon hasn't assembled a great squad and major changes (once again!) are required.

Thoughts ?

The new Manager will need funds made available to strenghen the team with his own players persnally id bring back John Collins the existing squad assembled by Paddy is better than what was left by Colin though.

truehibernian
04-11-2013, 01:11 PM
Josh Carson hit the ground running in the bottom 5 of league 2. That's not really impressive.

Lyle Taylor wouldn't have been frightening in the SPFL, at least there's no garuntee as he was unproven.

McCourt obviously never wanted to join Hibs. Or he got offered more at Barnsley. Having watched him at them he's the main man there and would like him at Hibs.

Wylde, there was rumours about it all the time but we don't know if we were ever in for him or flood. Just because they went to Aberdeen doesn't mean they rejected us. Pat might never have wanted him.

Your point about Josh Carson - fair enough, however Zoubit comes from the lower French league - jury for me is out already on Zoubir who clearly has talent and quick feet, but not the winger I think we need. I think we need an Aaron Doran / Chris Humphrey type who can zip by people at pace - not someone like Zoubir (and I'm not saying the lad doesn't have talent - it's he is not the right fit for me). Hibs need two very direct wingers that can get in behind and leave full backs gasping for air !

What is unproven about Lyle's record in the Scottish First Division (or indeed lower leagues) ? That's where United got the likes of Conway, GMS, farmed out Goodwillie to ? He has pace and is lean - the opposite of James Collins and Vine (my opinion). And he scored a lot of goals and wanted to come - four bids told you Hibs wanted him too. Ian Murray for one reckoned Lyle would tear the league up - and I trust Nid's eye for a player.

Wylde and Flood were more than just rumours, they were targets - and both would have improved the side markedly. McCourt and McManus - both made their cash, McCourt maybe looking for one last cash windfall so with you on that one.

BVB Hibs
04-11-2013, 01:24 PM
I think in terms of individual players, we probably do have one of the best squads in the league. Most of our Central Midfielders would walk onto most other SPFL sides, that includes the current benched ones in Taiwo and OTJ. In defence we've been solid in the league for the majority of our games. How often have we conceded more than one goal? Up front, fair enough we've not scored enough goals, but Collins looks like he has a lot more in the tank and Heff is a good SPL striker. Vine too hasn't just turned into an awful player overnight, there's definitely something there to work with. Out wide we have our issues, though it hasn't helped we have had Harris injured since the first game of the season.

The thing that we're missing is balance. I think in a 4-2-3-1 a midfield trio of Thompson, KT with Craig up front would be the strongest midfield in the league outwith Celtic. I'll reserve judgement until Harris is back, but we need a direct winger. While Zoubir is very skillful, he's not the style of winger we need in our team. With Collins and Heff we need to get the ball into the box, and we need to get it to them with some space, holding the ball and skinning players is just going to cause the area to get congested. I think we have a good spine to the team, but I think a new, somewhat attacking, right back and a no nonsense pace style winger would do us wonders. There's not a lot missing in terms of personnel in my opinion, the key ingredient that should push us up to 4th with the current squad is confidence. Nobody looks like they think they'll win, and while we definitely have one or two leaders in this side, nobody seems to be willing to take the game by the scruff of the neck and drag the team through with them.

truehibernian
04-11-2013, 01:38 PM
I think in terms of individual players, we probably do have one of the best squads in the league. Most of our Central Midfielders would walk onto most other SPFL sides, that includes the current benched ones in Taiwo and OTJ. In defence we've been solid in the league for the majority of our games. How often have we conceded more than one goal? Up front, fair enough we've not scored enough goals, but Collins looks like he has a lot more in the tank and Heff is a good SPL striker. Vine too hasn't just turned into an awful player overnight, there's definitely something there to work with. Out wide we have our issues, though it hasn't helped we have had Harris injured since the first game of the season.

The thing that we're missing is balance. I think in a 4-2-3-1 a midfield trio of Thompson, KT with Craig up front would be the strongest midfield in the league outwith Celtic. I'll reserve judgement until Harris is back, but we need a direct winger. While Zoubir is very skillful, he's not the style of winger we need in our team. With Collins and Heff we need to get the ball into the box, and we need to get it to them with some space, holding the ball and skinning players is just going to cause the area to get congested. I think we have a good spine to the team, but I think a new, somewhat attacking, right back and a no nonsense pace style winger would do us wonders. There's not a lot missing in terms of personnel in my opinion, the key ingredient that should push us up to 4th with the current squad is confidence. Nobody looks like they think they'll win, and while we definitely have one or two leaders in this side, nobody seems to be willing to take the game by the scruff of the neck and drag the team through with them.

Good post but I disagree that we have been solid - we have rode our luck and often in games could and should have been 3 down.

That said, last two games, with better finishing we could have been two up early into games and that then leads to sides playing more open and maybe would have allowed us to play an 'absorb and counter' game where more space opens up.

I quite often look at what an opposition might do to set up against Hibs, or what would go through their mind looking at our bench and how would they cope/adapt/set up - the answers are quite simple, play with width and pace out wide and you'll always get success against Hibs.

We have good central players - Thommo, Craig and Robertson - so you'd look to limit the possession they get as they are very good footballers. Hence you play out wide and use the whole pitch - playing a left sided right back is folly and will always always be targeted. This puts wee Lewis immediately under pressure in games and causes (rightly) a reluctance and a fear of venturing too far forward. Other flank, Ryan loves and wants to get involved - which means his left sided midfielder (or preferably winger) needs to not only overlap and attack, but track back and defend.

Centrally Paul Hanlon seemed to work okay with Nelson - though both have poor distribution. But what Nelson has is that 'head a brick' mentality which I think unsettles an attacker.

We need a forward minded right back, who can use both feet - Ryan on the left - and the defence as a unit pressing higher up the pitch. Then we need options up top - width and pace and if that isn't working some braun with guile.

We are three players short of being a very good side - but it's in crucial crucial areas and we are getting constantly found out for being what we are - ponderous and pedestrian.

I'm still baffled as I write that Pat and Hibs seemed to avoid bringing in real pace - I just hope we bring in a manager that has players that can provide different styles of play and options.

MWHIBBIES
04-11-2013, 01:53 PM
Its more accurate than the ''you cant win without pace'' theory, this isn't FIFA

hibbytam
04-11-2013, 02:09 PM
How about 'we have the basis of a strong squad, but still have some glaring problems, namely pace and a cutting edge'

Leishy1995
04-11-2013, 02:37 PM
Your point about Josh Carson - fair enough, however Zoubit comes from the lower French league - jury for me is out already on Zoubir who clearly has talent and quick feet, but not the winger I think we need. I think we need an Aaron Doran / Chris Humphrey type who can zip by people at pace - not someone like Zoubir (and I'm not saying the lad doesn't have talent - it's he is not the right fit for me). Hibs need two very direct wingers that can get in behind and leave full backs gasping for air !

What is unproven about Lyle's record in the Scottish First Division (or indeed lower leagues) ? That's where United got the likes of Conway, GMS, farmed out Goodwillie to ? He has pace and is lean - the opposite of James Collins and Vine (my opinion). And he scored a lot of goals and wanted to come - four bids told you Hibs wanted him too. Ian Murray for one reckoned Lyle would tear the league up - and I trust Nid's eye for a player.

Wylde and Flood were more than just rumours, they were targets - and both would have improved the side markedly. McCourt and McManus - both made their cash, McCourt maybe looking for one last cash windfall so with you on that one.

Agree with Zoubir, he looks lost once he does his skill and should drive forward he looks to beat more men.

Taylor, in my opinion is like any lower league player, a risk. I won't discredit him for his Sheffield United record because they had a shocking start though. I must say he'd be worth more to us than Vine.

Didn't McManus chose Motherwell or his family? Wylde we were linked with for 3 windows so I hope it was just rumours because losing out after that long is a joke. Flood I doubt we were in for. Doesn't seem like Pat would have targeted him.

shearer1981
04-11-2013, 03:20 PM
Having read all posts we seem to say more or less the same.

1. We are a decent team that's better than C'wood left it.
2. We are not as good as we think we are on paper (tell that to Vine) and we could still do with 3 or 4 additions. Equally teams are doing better with worse players (on paper) so we had to heave Paddy as he wasnt getting the best out them (amongst other things).
3. We do not have any balance in the team from defence, midfield and attack. Stevenson isnt a LB, Robbo isnt a winger and Vine isnt even a fitba player!
4. We are so lethargic its frustrating - we do nothing at pace anymore. Gone are the days of wingers running at their full backs. We now cross from 30 yards out which means its easier defended. How many crosses were wasted against Mwell - total joke!
5. We have the semblance of a good defence there and our GK is as good as any. Central Midfield is totally fine though we need wingers and strikers - preferably ones that can run!

In terms of new gaffers I really dunno bout Butcher. I heard this spanish chap fancies a go and whilst I think we need tried and tested, I have never enjoyed watching ICT. They are very tight, compact and dare I say it - play like the ****. id much prefer to see someone like Mowbray come in, establish some team principles of pass and move - bring on the lil uns a bit more and above all play the best players in their respective positions. Even if we dont improve results right away - as long as we look more dangerous and that we are actually enjoying playing again. Pat's team and Calderwoods before were the worst and ER was like a morgue some games.

regardless of results - if the performacnes improve and we actually try to play I guarantee people will come back. If Rod does the unthinkable and splashes big on a markee manager - the attendance will improve. Its all set up to go - I say we go nuts and go for Redknapp or Dalglish or something - wonder what Fergie is doing nowadays - Id be pwoud.

Dashing Bob S
04-11-2013, 04:55 PM
Having read all posts we seem to say more or less the same.

1. We are a decent team that's better than C'wood left it.
2. We are not as good as we think we are on paper (tell that to Vine) and we could still do with 3 or 4 additions. Equally teams are doing better with worse players (on paper) so we had to heave Paddy as he wasnt getting the best out them (amongst other things).
3. We do not have any balance in the team from defence, midfield and attack. Stevenson isnt a LB, Robbo isnt a winger and Vine isnt even a fitba player!
4. We are so lethargic its frustrating - we do nothing at pace anymore. Gone are the days of wingers running at their full backs. We now cross from 30 yards out which means its easier defended. How many crosses were wasted against Mwell - total joke!
5. We have the semblance of a good defence there and our GK is as good as any. Central Midfield is totally fine though we need wingers and strikers - preferably ones that can run!

In terms of new gaffers I really dunno bout Butcher. I heard this spanish chap fancies a go and whilst I think we need tried and tested, I have never enjoyed watching ICT. They are very tight, compact and dare I say it - play like the ****. id much prefer to see someone like Mowbray come in, establish some team principles of pass and move - bring on the lil uns a bit more and above all play the best players in their respective positions. Even if we dont improve results right away - as long as we look more dangerous and that we are actually enjoying playing again. Pat's team and Calderwoods before were the worst and ER was like a morgue some games.



regardless of results - if the performacnes improve and we actually try to play I guarantee people will come back. If Rod does the unthinkable and splashes big on a markee manager - the attendance will improve. Its all set up to go - I say we go nuts and go for Redknapp or Dalglish or something - wonder what Fergie is doing nowadays - Id be pwoud.



Yes to all off that.

The Butcher's of this world are at best ship steadying appointments, and we've already had one of these and the football was drab. I'd be much happier if we showed some imagination and ambition again.

Fergus52
04-11-2013, 05:37 PM
I'd like to clear the whole squad out apart from Harris. They're all tainted with the stench of failure.
:faf:


:top marks

Was this post sarcastic, slightly tongue in cheek, or completely genuine? Please be honest.

clerriehibs
04-11-2013, 06:26 PM
Finally found the will to watch the first 20 mins v the yams. Just how the **** did we lose that?!?!

We do have some players, and maybe the front two just need to net a few to get them going - or maybe el tel can do that.

The yams are going down. No doubt whatsoever.

hihohibby
04-11-2013, 06:26 PM
Yes to all off that.

The Butcher's of this world are at best ship steadying appointments, and we've already had one of these and the football was drab. I'd be much happier if we showed some imagination and ambition again.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I'm not excited at the prospect of Butcher taking over. His overall record is "average" at best, but to be fair, he has done a decent job at ICT..though this appears to be the exception proving the rule. Any new manager would get my backing, including Butcher, but his appointment would leave me feeling flat.