Realistic Targets

[Islington Hibs]

I doubt many on this board would argue that Hibs have underachieved their potential for a very long time. I am unconvinced that the buck just stops with Pat Fenlon. 10 managers in 16 years is not good. While I very much doubt Petrie will announce targets/ ambitions these would be my targets for the Club over the next 5 years.

1. Dominate the Edinburgh Derby. For most of my adult life we have been a distant second best. This needs to be urgently reversed as a key objective of success and not over just one season but over each of the next five. Kick the inferiority complex and create a culture of self belief. This is key fixture and a key criteria of success or failure.
2. Gates and form/style of play are closely linked to success. Target 14000 a week, within 3-5 years ( it certainly won't happen tomorrow!). This would imply we are not only winning but playing well.
3. Over the next 5 seasons top 6 in each with at least one second, and two top three's
4. Qualify for Europe 4 times our of 5
5. Win a minimum of one major Cup
6. Be respected for hard , fair and flair play. Easter Road needs to be feared. Expect to still win when one nil down not capitulate.

Given The Rangers problems and our neighbours thievery realistic or not?

[pontius pilate]

Very realistic and these would be my expectations and targets to meet

[Hibbyradge]

It's not realistic that we'll finish in the top 3, three times in the next 5 years.

Plus, we'll need to finish second this year or next cos like it or not, The Rangers will be back at the height of their power very soon.

[Hibercelona]

I doubt many on this board would argue that Hibs have underachieved their potential for a very long time. I am unconvinced that the buck just stops with Pat Fenlon. 10 managers in 16 years is not good. While I very much doubt Petrie will announce targets/ ambitions these would be my targets for the Club over the next 5 years.

1. Dominate the Edinburgh Derby. For most of my adult life we have been a distant second best. This needs to be urgently reversed as a key objective of success and not over just one season but over each of the next five. Kick the inferiority complex and create a culture of self belief. This is key fixture and a key criteria of success or failure.
2. Gates and form/style of play are closely linked to success. Target 14000 a week, within 3-5 years ( it certainly won't happen tomorrow!). This would imply we are not only winning but playing well.
3. Over the next 5 seasons top 6 in each with at least one second, and two top three's
4. Qualify for Europe 4 times our of 5
5. Win a minimum of one major Cup
6. Be respected for hard , fair and flair play. Easter Road needs to be feared. Expect to still win when one nil down not capitulate.

Given The Rangers problems and our neighbours thievery realistic or not?

These are targets that "should" be realistic. But how long have we been saying this for?

We have an owner and somebody who runs the club, who really aren't that bothered about the footballing side of things, as long as they can still break even each season.

We're simply getting by, with no real intentions of making our mark.

Sometimes you've got to ask. Whats the point?

[Hibbyradge]

We have an owner and somebody who runs the club, who really aren't that bothered about the footballing side of things, as long as they can still break even each season.



What are you suggesting should happen?

[Hibercelona]

It's not realistic that we'll finish in the top 3, three times in the next 5 years.

Why isn't it through?

If this club was ran to the very best of it's potential, then it would be a very realistic goal.

[lord bunberry]

There was a suggestion on bt sport today that the hibs manager isn't given a free hand to run the football side of things, until that changes we will continue to underachieve imo.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I think those targets are more than fair for a club of Hibs' size in the Scottish game, particularly in the current context of Rangers and Hearts crises. We've underachieved on the pitch for years. Great stadium and infrastructure, large fanbase, financial stability but too often accompanied by the failure of the team. There's been a revolving door of managers which has to stop. We need someone who can stick around, build something and finally deliver the club's potential.

[Jonnyboy]

There was a suggestion on bt sport today that the hibs manager isn't given a free hand to run the football side of things, until that changes we will continue to underachieve imo.

What do you reckon was meant by that lb?

[Hibbyradge]

Why isn't it through?

If this club was ran to the very best of it's potential, then it would be a very realistic goal.

Because it's football.

Aberdeen, Motherwell, Dundee United and now Caley, all have a shout at finishing 2nd.

How many times have we finished in the top 3 since 1960? (A year which has special meaning to me!)

[Hibercelona]

What are you suggesting should happen?

I want somebody in that board room that knows what shape a football is.

I have no complaints about the level of cash being made available. But we just don't seem to be using it as wisely as we could do.

The amount of cash we spend on the playing side of things, should see us up there in the league season after season. The fact that it doesn't, would suggest that something is quite wrong beyond managerial level.

[jdships]

What are you suggesting should happen?

:agree: HR
Question
What then are STF/RP doing ploutering about running a football club ?
They are OBVIOUSLY not making any money out of the venture so Hibercelona please give us your take on what they are up to :rolleyes:

[Aldo]

Consistency is a must for me.... Playing good football but playing it consistently.

Something we have not done for a long long time.

The next man must find us pace and width (prob not until Jan) possibly even from U20's.

I am really surprised that the lad Cummings hasn't been at least been on the bench as he's been the most prolific scorer at the club all season. Another 4 taking his total to 20 in 18 games (I think).

Surely deserves a wee chance??

[lord bunberry]

What do you reckon was meant by that lb?

I'm presuming they are talking about signing players, both yogi and craigan mentioned it. There has been the suggestion for a while that certain players were signed by petrie rather than the manager. Goc and ivan sproule are 2 that spring to mind.

[Islington Hibs]

Because it's football.

Aberdeen, Motherwell, Dundee United and now Caley, all have a shout at finishing 2nd.

How many times have we finished in the top 3 since 1960? (A year which has special meaning to me!)

Agree we have under- achieved big time. Apart from The Tornado's we have been also-rans and often worse. The targets I suggested clearly are tough but if we have any ambition there is no reason why they can't be achieved. Alex Ferguson said he never went into a game expecting to lose and that included when he managed Aberdeen. How often do you think our players go into a match hoping for, at best a draw. the psychology seems all wrong. It is time to change our culture and stop accepting extreme mediocrity. Frankly if we continue as we have our decline will be set with dwindling gates and enthusiasm making recovery even harder.

[Hibbyradge]

I want somebody in that board room that knows what shape a football is.

I have no complaints about the level of cash being made available. But we just don't seem to be using it as wisely as we could do.

The amount of cash we spend on the playing side of things, should see us up there in the league season after season. The fact that it doesn't, would suggest that something is quite wrong beyond managerial level.

Mowbray's time is generally seen as a success, Collins won us a cup and we qualified for Europe under Yogi.

Even Fenlon got us to 2 cup finals and a Euro place.

A lot of teams aspire to that kind of failure.

[Jonnyboy]

I'm presuming they are talking about signing players, both yogi and craigan mentioned it. There has been the suggestion for a while that certain players were signed by petrie rather than the manager. Goc and ivan sproule are 2 that spring to mind.

:aok:

[Hibercelona]

Because it's football.

So what are you saying? That money doesn't talk?

If thats the case, then how have the OF managed to dominate the league with their large wage bills and infrastructure?


Aberdeen, Motherwell, Dundee United and now Caley, all have a shout at finishing 2nd.

Yes they do. And at least 3 of those clubs have considerably smaller resources than we do. So how is this happening?


How many times have we finished in the top 3 since 1960? (A year which has special meaning to me!)

Probably not very often. Not nearly as often as we should have been for a club of our size.

[Kaiser1962]

Yes they do. And at least 3 of those clubs have considerably smaller resources than we do. So how is this happening?




How much smaller is "considerably"?

[Hibercelona]

:agree: HR
Question
What then are STF/RP doing ploutering about running a football club ?
They are OBVIOUSLY not making any money out of the venture so Hibercelona please give us your take on what they are up to :rolleyes:

Honestly, I have no idea what they're up to behind the scenes, if anything at all.

Whatever they are up to, it's not having a positive impact where it matters.

[Hibercelona]

How much smaller is "considerably"?

Considerably enough for us to be challenging them and ultimately bettering them in the league.

[thebakerboy]

I feel we may have more than 2 seasons to achieve in before Rangers return as I have been reading that if they cannot sort out the board room mess they are in they could fall into administration again so we must get things right this time and take advantage of being the 2nd. biggest club after Celtic in the Premiere League.

[Kaiser1962]

Considerably enough for us to be challenging them and ultimately bettering them in the league.


In what way?

[Kaiser1962]

I feel we may have more than 2 seasons to achieve in before Rangers return as I have been reading that if they cannot sort out the board room mess they are in they could fall into administration again so we must get things right this time and take advantage of being the 2nd. biggest club after Celtic in the Premiere League.

I dont think we are.

[Allan45]

A realistic target for me would be 4th or 5th in the league, maybe get to the 1/4 finals of the Scottish Cup. A new manager will not have some kind of magic wand, some folk think there is..I feel there is no real solution. I may be proved wrong. God, I would love hibs to challenge for the league and Cup Finals, really I would, but since e 70s except a couple of League Cups and one or two high place finishes in the league, that's been it!

We will soon find out if the players have technical ability to score, pass, hold the ball, pass etc with a new manager and new coaching staff. All the boo boys that constantly give players stick for not performing well will either be right or wrong because how the other manager has played them on the park. I feel the likes of James Collins is a good player, but needs support, no way our main striker, but should be converting more chances into goals.

Goals, we are so lacking them since the start of the season. We are not a bad side, but how we play at present is somewhere in the middle of the league, which has no more than two or three good sides...l
We will finish 4th or 5th if we can improve, hope that's not the case though...:cb

[Fife-Hibee]

Honestly, I have no idea what they're up to behind the scenes, if anything at all.

Whatever they are up to, it's not having a positive impact where it matters.

Agreed

[Kato]

There was a suggestion on bt sport today that the hibs manager isn't given a free hand to run the football side of things, until that changes we will continue to underachieve imo.

You believe that? If the media know specifics about this they wouldn't be shy in telling all.

[Deansy]

These are targets that "should" be realistic. But how long have we been saying this for?

We have an owner and somebody who runs the club, who really aren't that bothered about the footballing side of things, as long as they can still break even each season.

We're simply getting by, with no real intentions of making our mark.

Sometimes you've got to ask. Whats the point?

I'm in total agreement with you on that - especially on the 'Non-playing staff' side. As a percentage, I wonder how many employed at Easter Road, from Rod Petrie downwards, are actually Hibs-supporters ??. I honestly feel the 'Business/professional-like' mind-set is preferred to the 'Hibernian-minded' mind-set.

[lord bunberry]

You believe that? If the media know specifics about this they wouldn't be shy in telling all.

It has been rumoured for a long time and I would hardly include john hughes as part of the media. Maybe your right though as its strange that no-one has ever came out and made any specific allegations of meddling from above.

[Hibbyradge]

I'm in total agreement with you on that - especially on the 'Non-playing staff' side. As a percentage, I wonder how many employed at Easter Road, from Rod Petrie downwards, are actually Hibs-supporters ??. I honestly feel the 'Business/professional-like' mind-set is preferred to the 'Hibernian-minded' mind-set.

How many of our players are Hibs supporters?

What team did Alex McLeish support?

Or Tony Mowbray?

Franck Sauzee hardly had green blood running through his veins as a laddie.

[Smiggy 7-0]

Realistic Target - Win remainder of our home games this season would be a good start.

[hihohibby]

I doubt many on this board would argue that Hibs have underachieved their potential for a very long time.?

In terms of setting targets, I believe that Mr Petrie sets them too low. This transmits itself to the manager, who then transmits this to his players. Too many players and managers appear to have bought into this mind set: "Let's do just enough to get people off our backs, but let's not dare go beyond and "push" for that last minute goal".
John Collin's tried his best to raise expectations and standards, but became victim to an arguably inherent culture of defeatism and the easy life, where it is okay to lose to your Ross County's regularly, just so long as this is interspersed with the odd raised game against Celtic or Rangers. In other words, mid table obscurity and plain "average".

[Hibbyradge]

In terms of setting targets, I believe that Mr Petrie sets them too low.

What leads you to believe that?

[hihohibby]

What leads you to believe that?

I say this because the targets Mr Petrie sets are "safe targets": ie: top 6 finish in the league, and reaching the latter stages of the cups. These are not "stretching" targets. In fact, for a club of Hibs standing in the Scottish game, his targets are reachable by simple default: Hibs are a Bigger club, with a bigger support, and bigger income than the bulk of SPL clubs. Stretching is seriously challenging for 2nd/3rd spot every season, and getting to a cup final every season; ultimately pushing for an actual league title -far fetched maybe, unlikely maybe, but not impossible. Set ambitions low and a culture of indifference and defeatism can set in.

[HoboHarry]

I say this because the targets Mr Petrie sets are "safe targets": ie: top 6 finish in the league, and reaching the latter stages of the cups. These are not "stretching" targets. In fact, for a club of Hibs standing in the Scottish game, his targets are reachable by simple default: Hibs are a Big club, with a big support, bigger income, more to spend on obtaining better quality players (in principle). Stretching is seriously challenging for 2nd/3rd spot every season, and getting to a cup final every season; ultimately pushing for an actual league title (far fetched maybe, unlikely maybe, but not impossible) Set ambitions low and a culture of indifference and defeatism can set in.
Good grief... Do tell what those targets are that he sets and also how you have come into this knowledge? Or you are just making stuff up ..... ?

[E10 Rifle]

Hibs can finish 2nd this season with the right man in charge.

[Hibercelona]

Good grief... Do tell what those targets are that he sets and also how you have come into this knowledge? Or you are just making stuff up ..... ?

Hibs don't set targets apparently. We just drift along like a weak ***** floating on water.

[Spike Mandela]

Hibs can finish 2nd this season with the right man in charge.

Sorry, no chance. Irrespective of who the manager is, Vine is still Vine and Stevenson is still Stevenson. Limited players with limited ability. Average players throughout the squad.

IMO there are at least 6 clubs that are better than us so even a top six finish will be a stretch. With some new signings perhaps next season the new guy can do something.

[hihohibby]

Good grief... Do tell what those targets are that he sets and also how you have come into this knowledge? Or you are just making stuff up ..... ?

Reaching the top 6 and the latter stages of the cups is not breaking news. Nothing to make up.

[HoboHarry]

Reaching the top 6 and the latter stages of the cups is not breaking news. Nothing to make up.
Again - where is this knowledge coming from? Are you privy to the private discussions at ER?

[Hibercelona]

Again - where is this knowledge coming from? Are you privy to the private discussions at ER?

What do you think our targets are then?

And assuming the board actually bother to set any targets, is it not in the fans best interest to know what they are?

[ekhibee]

Again - where is this knowledge coming from? Are you privy to the private discussions at ER?Are you?

[HoboHarry]

Are you?
Errrrr... no... And I don't believe the other poster is either. I have no inside knowledge and I refrain from making stuff up too....

[Hibercelona]

Errrrr... no... And I don't believe the other poster is either. I have no inside knowledge and I refrain from making stuff up too....

Not making anything up.

Surely if the board set any targets, they wouldn't have such great difficulty telling us what those targets were?

So why don't we know what our targets as a club are? Unless of course, the board don't actually set any targets.

[HoboHarry]

What do you think our targets are then?

And assuming the board actually bother to set any targets, is it not in the fans best interest to know what they are?
I don't really see what I think our targets should be has to do with it. I was questioning the posters assertion that Rod Petrie sets targets which are too low. I was curious to know where he got that information that's all. If he doesn't have access to that info then he is making stuff up. Like a lot of people do here really I suppose. Should I add FACT at this point?

[HoboHarry]

Not making anything up.

Surely if the board set any targets, they wouldn't have such great difficulty telling us what those targets were?

So why don't we know what our targets as a club are? Unless of course, the board don't actually set any targets.
I have no idea if they set targets or not but if they do they should be kept private withing the contract/club. By all means the public line should be "finish as high as we can" but in private it may be different. And should be too. If you have ever been involved in upper management you will know that....

[Hibercelona]

I don't really see what I think our targets should be has to do with it. I was questioning the posters assertion that Rod Petrie sets targets which are too low. I was curious to know where he got that information that's all. If he doesn't have access to that info then he is making stuff up. Like a lot of people do here really I suppose. Should I add FACT at this point?

It doesn't really take much thinking to work it out.

The board must either set our targets below a point that we would find reasonable, or fail to set any targets at all. Otherwise, they would be able to confidently tell us what our targets are.

If the targets weren't set too low, then the board would be able to tell us what they were. But seemingly they can't?

Why can't we know what targets the board set, assuming that they do actually set targets?

They must be too low, otherwise they would have no problem telling us what they were!

[Hibercelona]

I have no idea if they set targets or not but if they do they should be kept private withing the contract/club. By all means the public line should be "finish as high as we can" but in private it may be different. And should be too. If you have ever been involved in upper management you will know that....

You're saying it should be kept private. But you're giving absolutely no reason as to why you think it should be kept private.

Why can't the board come out and tell the fans exactly what they're looking to achieve?

How can that harm the club in any possible way?

[S.sct]

I'm presuming they are talking about signing players, both yogi and craigan mentioned it. There has been the suggestion for a while that certain players were signed by petrie rather than the manager. Goc and ivan sproule are 2 that spring to mind.

Ah well if Yogi said it then it must be true :yawn:

[Captain Trips]

It shouldn't have even need discussed where we should finish without Rangers and and Hearts issues 2nd target 3rd acceptable

The fact we are not in about there just now shows how correct removing PF was and how wrong it is nobody else has followed.

I make no mistake when I say its an utter disgrace where we are without Rangers and with Hearts issues, total disgraceful effort and its been a disgrace since CC joined.

[jdships]

Ah well if Yogi said it then it must be true :yawn:

:agree: