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SlickShoes
01-11-2013, 10:23 AM
I had this conversation yesterday with a mate after watching Hibs all year since the Malmo game, finally a full Pat Fenlon selected and settled side. The only players for me that are good enough currently:

Paul Heffernan
Scott Robertson
Liam Craig
Kevin Thomson
Ben Williams
Abdellah Zoubir ( lots of potential there )
Alex Harris

James Collins should be doing better than he is, i'd keep him around.

I knew that Rowan Vine wasn't great but I didn't expect him to be as woeful as he has been, terrible terrible first touch.

We are back to needing almost a whole new team, which is the exact position we were in last year and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that. I have nothing against the players that didn't make my wee list but from watching them this season( and last where applicable) they just don't seem to cut it.

This is based on our regulars I am not including the youngsters just pushing through they all still have time to develop in to decent players.

Brightside
01-11-2013, 10:30 AM
I had this conversation yesterday with a mate after watching Hibs all year since the Malmo game, finally a full Pat Fenlon selected and settled side. The only players for me that are good enough currently:

Paul Heffernan
Scott Robertson
Liam Craig
Kevin Thomson
Ben Williams
Abdellah Zoubir ( lots of potential there )
Alex Harris

James Collins should be doing better than he is, i'd keep him around.

I knew that Rowan Vine wasn't great but I didn't expect him to be as woeful as he has been, terrible terrible first touch.

We are back to needing almost a whole new team, which is the exact position we were in last year and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that. I have nothing against the players that didn't make my wee list but from watching them this season( and last where applicable) they just don't seem to cut it.

This is based on our regulars I am not including the youngsters just pushing through they all still have time to develop in to decent players.

This is getting silly now.

Wilson
01-11-2013, 10:35 AM
The squad is strong. We're not getting the best we can from them. The buck for that stops with the manager. I'd keep them all.

Scouse Hibee
01-11-2013, 11:07 AM
I had this conversation yesterday with a mate after watching Hibs all year since the Malmo game, finally a full Pat Fenlon selected and settled side. The only players for me that are good enough currently:

Paul Heffernan
Scott Robertson
Liam Craig
Kevin Thomson
Ben Williams
Abdellah Zoubir ( lots of potential there )
Alex Harris

James Collins should be doing better than he is, i'd keep him around.

I knew that Rowan Vine wasn't great but I didn't expect him to be as woeful as he has been, terrible terrible first touch.

We are back to needing almost a whole new team, which is the exact position we were in last year and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that. I have nothing against the players that didn't make my wee list but from watching them this season( and last where applicable) they just don't seem to cut it.

This is based on our regulars I am not including the youngsters just pushing through they all still have time to develop in to decent players.


No chance! On paper I was pretty pleased with the squad that Fenlon has put together, we have some very decent players who have shown in glimpses what they can do. No need to empty half of the squad just need a Manager that can get the best out of them.

Saorsa
01-11-2013, 11:11 AM
No chance! On paper I was pretty pleased with the squad that Fenlon has put together, we have some very decent players who have shown in glimpses what they can do. No need to empty half of the squad just need a Manager that can get the best out of them.No often I agree with you :greengrin but IMO you're on the money here. One or two I'd move on but our biggest problems dinnae lie with the squad of players we have.

Scouse Hibee
01-11-2013, 11:18 AM
No often I agree with you :greengrin but IMO you're on the money here. One or two I'd move on but our biggest problems dinnae lie with the squad of players we have.

:thumbsup:Thank you I'm honoured. :greengrin

Paisley Hibby
01-11-2013, 12:07 PM
The squad is strong. We're not getting the best we can from them. The buck for that stops with the manager. I'd keep them all.

I agree. We're not signing loanees from the likes of Coventry and Norwich reserves any more. We have players on proper contracts who have proven themselves at other SPL clubs. So it's crystal clear that Fenlon is the problem, not the squad.

SkintHibby
01-11-2013, 12:08 PM
The squad is strong. We're not getting the best we can from them. The buck for that stops with the manager. I'd keep them all.

Utter nonsense. 6 decent players at best. Rest absolutely woeful.
I cant believe the mediocrity that some Hibs fans accept nowadays. From Petrie all the way down.

Top 4 squad? Dont make laugh!!!

Brightside
01-11-2013, 12:12 PM
Utter nonsense. 6 decent players at best. Rest absolutely woeful.
I cant believe the mediocrity that some Hibs fans accept nowadays. From Petrie all the way down.

Top 4 squad? Dont make laugh!!!

Bollix. 2nd best squad in the league.

Steven_Hibs
01-11-2013, 12:15 PM
Bollix. 2nd best squad in the league.

Lol, barring a few, most of them wouldn't get a game up the park. 2nd best in the bottom six more like.

SkintHibby
01-11-2013, 12:17 PM
Bollix. 2nd best squad in the league.

Hahahahahhhaaahha!

You should book yourself into the fringe next year. Thats a cracker!

J-C
01-11-2013, 12:22 PM
Not so much who I'd keep more who I want to get rid off, I'll start with Vine, OTJ, McPake( back gone ), Clancy (treatment table). Nelson should be here only as cover nothing else but would prefer to see Forster as cover and bring in a proven CH. Until we give Collins the right service, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Ozyhibby
01-11-2013, 12:24 PM
There is nothing wrong with the squad. A half decent manager will get more out every one of them.
Mind you, McPake and Clancy need moved on.

Scouse Hibee
01-11-2013, 12:29 PM
Utter nonsense. 6 decent players at best. Rest absolutely woeful.
I cant believe the mediocrity that some Hibs fans accept nowadays. From Petrie all the way down.

Top 4 squad? Dont make laugh!!!


Easy to criticise the squad and their abilities when the going gets tough! The fact remains that Fenlon has assembled a squad that on paper looks pretty decent and had most Hibees happy with his signings. These same players have not turned into woeful players overnight, the manager however has had considerably longer.

Scouse Hibee
01-11-2013, 12:31 PM
Not so much who I'd keep more who I want to get rid off, I'll start with Vine, OTJ, McPake( back gone ), Clancy (treatment table). Nelson should be here only as cover nothing else but would prefer to see Forster as cover and bring in a proven CH. Until we give Collins the right service, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Why? He's made a difference to the defence and was sorely missed on Wednesday.

Brightside
01-11-2013, 12:31 PM
There is nothing wrong with the squad. A half decent manager will get more out every one of them.
Mind you, McPake and Clancy need moved on.

This! Bang on. and if we can get rid of Vine i would to. Shocking that he gets that no.9 shirt.

The Sea-gull
01-11-2013, 12:46 PM
I actually think the squad is ok and it is widely by Hibs fans, non-Hibs fans and the media thought to be a decent squad.

A better manager would get more out of it. In fact the current manager would probably get more out of it if he played players in their more natural positions. Eg. Robertson, Thomson and Craig would all be better as a central three. Christ, I even think Rowan Vine would be better wide in a front three than through the middle.

Saying we have the second best squad in the league is a bit wide of the mark I would say though. Aberdeen have a better squad than us for starters. Motherwell, ICT, St Johnstone and Dundee United could all lay claim to being just as good.

Said in a thread earlier in the week, my own immediate pressing issues would be change the manager, sign a right back, sign a quality centre half to play alongside Nelson who is decent in his own way but not quality, bring in someone who can offer a wee bit of pace and trickery out wide (that may be Zoubir or the returning Harris) and play them on a week to week basis.

I'd move Clancy and McPake on. I'll reserve judgement on Taiwo and OTJ though having liked Taiwo, I'm going off him and if we try a switch to a three man midfield I'm not sure if there is a place for them. Maybe keep them for the squad.

I would persevere with James Collins just now. He maybe needs benched as if we went three up front Heff would get the nod as the central striker for now. Think Zoubir, Harris, Handling and even Vine could play wide in a front three. Worth a try.

calumb
01-11-2013, 12:57 PM
I don't get why people think we have a strong squad when its fairly obvious we have very little pace, very little creativity, not much in the way of width and we don't even have a right back. Doesn't seem much of a squad to me.

J-C
01-11-2013, 01:02 PM
Why? He's made a difference to the defence and was sorely missed on Wednesday.

Yes but still not the answer is he, ponderously slow and unable to pass the ball to a colleague, we need a proper decent quick CH to dominate and has decent ball skills.

Scouse Hibee
01-11-2013, 01:12 PM
Yes but still not the answer is he, ponderously slow and unable to pass the ball to a colleague, we need a proper decent quick CH to dominate and has decent ball skills.

If only Hibs could get players in every position that are complete footballers we would be laughing. As it is it's never going to happen so if we have to settle for a no nonsense defender who defends then so be it.

Matt92
01-11-2013, 01:22 PM
Williams
McGivern
Nelson
Hanlon
Craig
Robertson
Thomson
Zoubir
Harris
Stanton
Handling
Collins
Heffernan

We have a good squad of players, that midfield is outstanding and definitely showed it until we got a total sucker-punch on Wed. The problem is not the quality of our players, its the fragile nature of the squad in the sense that as soon as that goal hit, the heads went down and our game changed (9/10 games we would have had us 2-0 up by the point of the hearts goal). That IMO lies in the management structure of the club, if this squad could gain the fighting nature that the yams seem to have, we would be brilliant.

yekimevol
01-11-2013, 01:47 PM
Not got an issue with the squad, bar vine tbh. My issue is the way that the squad is being utilised, I feel that fenlon has vastly improved the squad and dealt with many of the issues that was present at the club.

However I feel that he has reached the peek of were he can take the club and that it is time for him to move on. Now we need a mowbray esque manager to take us to the next step, i.e. fenlon can possibly scape top 6 and get to semis/ But I don't feel he can get us winners medals and to the league euro places.

HappyHibby93
01-11-2013, 01:50 PM
I had this conversation yesterday with a mate after watching Hibs all year since the Malmo game, finally a full Pat Fenlon selected and settled side. The only players for me that are good enough currently:

Paul Heffernan
Scott Robertson
Liam Craig
Kevin Thomson
Ben Williams
Abdellah Zoubir ( lots of potential there )
Alex Harris

James Collins should be doing better than he is, i'd keep him around.

I knew that Rowan Vine wasn't great but I didn't expect him to be as woeful as he has been, terrible terrible first touch.

We are back to needing almost a whole new team, which is the exact position we were in last year and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that. I have nothing against the players that didn't make my wee list but from watching them this season( and last where applicable) they just don't seem to cut it.

This is based on our regulars I am not including the youngsters just pushing through they all still have time to develop in to decent players.

Can't say I agree with this. I would say that Fenlon has assembled a pretty good squad, i just don't think he has the tactical nous to get the best out of them. I would like to see us play much more attacking as i feel we have the players to do it. This would be my team.

GK: Williams
LB: McGivern
CB: Hanlon
CB Nelson
RB: Clancy
RCM: Robertson
CM: Thonmpson
LCM: Craig
RW: Harris
ST: Heffernan
LW: Zoubir

I would give Craig a licence to support the front three, i have thompson playing a more defensive role to support the back 4, with Robertson playing a box to box midfielder role, as from what I've seen, he seems to have excellent stamina. Think Nelson has probably been one of our better signings, and would say that he has really helped Hanlon. My only concern would be Clancy at RB. But the January transfer window can fix that.

Rant Over.

Speedy
02-11-2013, 12:33 AM
Can't say I agree with this. I would say that Fenlon has assembled a pretty good squad, i just don't think he has the tactical nous to get the best out of them. I would like to see us play much more attacking as i feel we have the players to do it. This would be my team.

GK: Williams
LB: McGivern
CB: Hanlon
CB Nelson
RB: Clancy
RCM: Robertson
CM: Thonmpson
LCM: Craig
RW: Harris
ST: Heffernan
LW: Zoubir

I would give Craig a licence to support the front three, i have thompson playing a more defensive role to support the back 4, with Robertson playing a box to box midfielder role, as from what I've seen, he seems to have excellent stamina. Think Nelson has probably been one of our better signings, and would say that he has really helped Hanlon. My only concern would be Clancy at RB. But the January transfer window can fix that.

Rant Over.

Is this some Icelandic guy we've signed?

Alfred E Newman
02-11-2013, 12:38 AM
I think the new man will need to be given 2 to 3 years to build his own team and then another couple of years for the new players to settle. Then we will get rid and start again.

Glory Lurker
02-11-2013, 12:41 AM
Keep 'em all. Simples.

davhibby
02-11-2013, 12:46 AM
This is really getting stupid now. I'm sure if you asked fans of the 9 other SPL teams apart from Aberdeen and celtic they would all take the squad that we have right now

Shields Hibee
02-11-2013, 12:46 AM
I don't think its a bad squad and the likes of Tudor-Jones, Vine & Collins were as we keep getting told, good players last season at their former clubs. I was right when I said we'd miss Nelson.

Fenlon has got in some decent signings, improved us with the players he went for but was tactically naive and this lead to his downfall in the big games.

Clancy and McPake are perhaps the only 2 I'd try to move on but only if we've replacements in those positions as otherwise, they're useful squad players.

Dashing Bob S
02-11-2013, 12:46 AM
Another mass clear out is not what we need - we don't want yet another 'period of transition.'

The brief should be to find a guy who wants to work with the existing squad and get more out of them, certainly in the first instance.

If the chance comes to bring in more pace, width and creativity then we should go for it, but it should be tinkering rather than wholesale changes.

But I'm hoping that fringe players like Cairney, Caldwell and Foster, who've all shown something, force their way back into the reckoning.

TheFamous1875
02-11-2013, 12:54 AM
Can't say I agree with this. I would say that Fenlon has assembled a pretty good squad, i just don't think he has the tactical nous to get the best out of them. I would like to see us play much more attacking as i feel we have the players to do it. This would be my team.

GK: Williams
LB: McGivern
CB: Hanlon
CB Nelson
RB: Clancy
RCM: Robertson
CM: Thonmpson
LCM: Craig
RW: Harris
ST: Heffernan
LW: Zoubir

I would give Craig a licence to support the front three, i have thompson playing a more defensive role to support the back 4, with Robertson playing a box to box midfielder role, as from what I've seen, he seems to have excellent stamina. Think Nelson has probably been one of our better signings, and would say that he has really helped Hanlon. My only concern would be Clancy at RB. But the January transfer window can fix that.

Rant Over.

This is word for word exactly what I think.

Sir David Gray
02-11-2013, 01:35 AM
We don't need many changes in personnel. We are a little bit short in quality up front. Paul Heffernan is/will be an excellent signing but that's about it. Collins hasn't set the heather on fire yet and Vine has been a disaster. Caldwell and Handling are not good enough (yet) to start every week.

We either need Collins to get his act together or we need at least one striker to arrive in the summer to support Heffernan.

Other than that, I'm pretty satisfied with the squad we've got at the moment.

StarMan10
02-11-2013, 01:36 AM
Assuming a new manager is appointed in the next few weeks, he'l have a reasonable amount of time to see what each player offers both in training and on the pitch. Players like Tudor-Jones and Collins who have yet to set the heather a light could still turn out to be very key players (just look at the Claros and Robertson situations). By all accounts Vine was a decent player for Saints last year and as such, if the manager see's fit, should also be given a chance.

What is undoubtedly clear is we still lack pace and width. Harris and Zoubir are the only proper wide men we have (could maybe include cairney) and this is a huge problem. Not once on Wednesday did Robertson or Craig beat their fullback in a one-on-one situation and get to the by-line. So with this should be a key priority come January.

Also, we really need a right back. The balance of the team is wrong having a left footed RB who cant properly support the wide man as a result. Mullen doesn't quite seem ready for the first team, Maybury is ageing, and Clancy looks well and truly crocked.

As for the other positions i think we are in pretty good shape. Centre-back options of Hanlon,Nelson,Forster,Mcgivern,McPake will suffice for now. Up front we have Heffernan who looks like he'l score a good amount this term, Collins who has shown glimpses of promise despite going off the boil completely last couple games, but with decent wingers i think will chip in with a fair amount of goals aswell. Vine may shock everyone and regain his Saints form although at present it looks unlikely. Caldwell and Handling both have promise, more so Handling at this stage and hopefully will continue to develop and Cummings has been banging them in at Under 20's so could also become an option.

Jdawg
02-11-2013, 01:42 AM
Sign a right footed right back, don't play 4 CM's in a 4 man midfield, inject some pace and width. We have the making of a good team.

Jdawg
02-11-2013, 01:44 AM
Assuming a new manager is appointed in the next few weeks, he'l have a reasonable amount of time to see what each player offers both in training and on the pitch. Players like Tudor-Jones and Collins who have yet to set the heather a light could still turn out to be very key players (just look at the Claros and Robertson situations). By all accounts Vine was a decent player for Saints last year and as such, if the manager see's fit, should also be given a chance.

What is undoubtedly clear is we still lack pace and width. Harris and Zoubir are the only proper wide men we have (could maybe include cairney) and this is a huge problem. Not once on Wednesday did Robertson or Craig beat their fullback in a one-on-one situation and get to the by-line. So with this should be a key priority come January.

Also, we really need a right back. The balance of the team is wrong having a left footed RB who cant properly support the wide man as a result. Mullen doesn't quite seem ready for the first team, Maybury is ageing, and Clancy looks well and truly crocked.

As for the other positions i think we are in pretty good shape. Centre-back options of Hanlon,Nelson,Forster,Mcgivern,McPake will suffice for now. Up front we have Heffernan who looks like he'l score a good amount this term, Collins who has shown glimpses of promise despite going off the boil completely last couple games, but with decent wingers i think will chip in with a fair amount of goals aswell. Vine may shock everyone and regain his Saints form although at present it looks unlikely. Caldwell and Handling both have promise, more so Handling at this stage and hopefully will continue to develop and Cummings has been banging them in at Under 20's so could also become an option. Agree re: Collins, the videos of him at his previous clubs were wingers getting to the byeline and crossings coming into the box. At the moment its floated aimless balls from full backs barely over the halfway line, very easy to defend.

shetlandhibee
02-11-2013, 02:40 AM
Williams

New attacking rb
Nelson
Hanlon
McGivern

New rm
Thompson
Craig/Stanton
Harris

Heffernan
New striker(maybe riordan) Mowbray/butcher/sheils could get the best out of him

AlbertK86
02-11-2013, 08:32 AM
As I've said before I believe we have a reasonable squad.. Far stronger than we have had for years. However it is sadly lacking in pace and real creativity. Hopefully Harris can provide both on his return and Cairney a bit of creativity

to free up wages I'd move on

Stevenson
Hanlon
Mullen
McPake
Vine

And only due to constant injury -
Clancy

If he can get back fit and stay fit for remainder of season I would keep him

Yep mainly defenders on the way out but

I'd like a back 4 of

New RB
Forster
Nelson
McGivern

Maybury Donaldson and other u20s as back up

Cropley10
02-11-2013, 08:35 AM
Sign a right footed right back, don't play 4 CM's in a 4 man midfield, inject some pace and width. We have the making of a good team.

Precisely. :greengrin

Jones28
02-11-2013, 08:41 AM
This is really getting stupid now. I'm sure if you asked fans of the 9 other SPL teams apart from Aberdeen and celtic they would all take the squad that we have right now

League position would suggest other wise. If you asked st Mirren, Kilmarnock or possibly Partick thistle maybe.

The Modfather
02-11-2013, 09:13 AM
Easy to criticise the squad and their abilities when the going gets tough! The fact remains that Fenlon has assembled a squad that on paper looks pretty decent and had most Hibees happy with his signings. These same players have not turned into woeful players overnight, the manager however has had considerably longer.

I haven't seen an awful lot of Hibs this year, so there will be better informed opinions than mine.

I do agree a better manager should be able to get a whole lot more out of nearly every player. However I think we can be guilty of judging players on paper/what the have done previously rather than what they have actually delivered so far.

An example in my mind, Scot Robertson. Very good at United, and I thought he would be a very good signing, but hasn't really lived up to his "billing" in my eyes. Although that, and others, may be more down to Fenlon or the relative little I've seen.

There's a good number I'd keep, but to flip it only Williams and Harris I'd genuinely be disappointed to see leave.

GreenOnions
02-11-2013, 10:06 AM
Pat lost out on a few key targets that we know about such as McManus, Griffiths, Taylor and McCourt. No doubt here will be others we don't know about too. As a result we lack that wee bit extra quality I think. That's the "bit extra" that can turn a game with a flash of skill or invention or even leadership.

He has also been unlucky with injuries in that "creative" area - to Harris and Cairney.

However, like most people I think our squad is generally pretty good. Probably a little unbalanced with not enough pace/creativity and maybe too many players in some positions. You can't help but notice the way that Aberdeen, Motherwell and ICT have actively sought to have several pacey wide attacking players in their squads of late and it has paid dividends for them.

Overall though - I think the right manager will be able to get far more out of this group of players especially if he can add even just one or two new faces and get Harris and Cairney back. I don't really think there's anyone I'd be looking to "lose" from the squad at the moment.

One particular point for me would be that I'd really like to see us give our younger players from the u-20s more of an opportunity. For me - that's one thing Hibs should always be doing. I know that Harris will be straight into contention for a place when he returns and that's good. Hanlon is still relatively young and has come through the ranks too. Some on here don't rate him but I think most (like me) do and he is likely to be a key player for us.

I really feel that Jordon Forster is extremely unlucky not to have played this year though. He didn't put a foot wrong last season and we haven't brought in any absolute standout that should be in ahead of him. Nelson is experienced but not so good that he should automatically be ahead of Forster IMO and if there's any doubt I think we should select the player who has come through the ranks first.

I'm not sure that Handling or Caldwell have made the most of their opportunities. Sam Stanton though has always impressed me and can consider himself a bit unlucky not to have played more. While I like Zoubir - his physical stature doesn't seem to prevent him from starting in the same way that it seems to be considered a drawback for Stanton.

HH81
02-11-2013, 10:10 AM
Every single player are to blame as much as PF.

Time to move on now though and they have to show they have the quality, it's ok saying it but actions speak louder than words!!!

Collins got subbed the other day as he was the worst player on the pitch but people still have a go at Vine :confused:

rcarter1
02-11-2013, 10:11 AM
Agree re: Collins, the videos of him at his previous clubs were wingers getting to the byeline and crossings coming into the box. At the moment its floated aimless balls from full backs barely over the halfway line, very easy to defend.

This. Collins started really well in terms of effort and a good touch. I reckon he is well cheesed off with how Hibs are playing.

The Harp Awakes
02-11-2013, 10:24 AM
Can't say I agree with this. I would say that Fenlon has assembled a pretty good squad, i just don't think he has the tactical nous to get the best out of them. I would like to see us play much more attacking as i feel we have the players to do it. This would be my team.

GK: Williams
LB: McGivern
CB: Hanlon
CB Nelson
RB: Clancy
RCM: Robertson
CM: Thonmpson
LCM: Craig
RW: Harris
ST: Heffernan
LW: Zoubir

I would give Craig a licence to support the front three, i have thompson playing a more defensive role to support the back 4, with Robertson playing a box to box midfielder role, as from what I've seen, he seems to have excellent stamina. Think Nelson has probably been one of our better signings, and would say that he has really helped Hanlon. My only concern would be Clancy at RB. But the January transfer window can fix that.

Rant Over.

I think you are pretty much spot on although the jury is still out for me on Nelson. He does a lot of simple defensive stuff well but his distribution is poor and is a bomb scare at times.

Eyrie
02-11-2013, 10:30 AM
I think there's a good squad there, and the only departures should be to free up wages for the three additions that we need - RB (could even be a healthy Clancy), another winger with pace (there's Harris and Zoubir, but Cairney is too slow), and a striker (could be Collins if he gets the service).

Unfortunately any departure will cost us a pay off as I can't see anyone bidding for our players. Guys on the bubble for me are Clancy and McPake (both fitness), one of Taiwo or Tudor Jones (assuming we can extend Thomson or bring back Claros) and Vine. Mullen and Caldwell will be on low wages so can be given time to prove themselves and Maybury is really only a coach now.

FromTheCapital
02-11-2013, 10:30 AM
Don't understand why some Hibs fans think that we've not got a good squad? Craig, Thomson, Harris, Taiwo, OTJ, Zoubir, Robertson, Handling, Stanton is probably one of the best midfields we've had in recent years, since the likes of Brown, Beuzlin etc. Heffernan is a poacher who if given the right service will score goals day and night. Collins hasn't had the greatest of starts but hasn't been awful either. He made a couple of smart touches on Wednesday that IMO Heffernan would've got on the end of but Vine was just lazy and seemed like he didn't care. Defence isn't entirely awful either. With a good manager and players played in their right positions, I think that this squad could easily come 2nd or 3rd...

snooky
02-11-2013, 10:40 AM
Another mass clear out is not what we need - we don't want yet another 'period of transition.'

The brief should be to find a guy who wants to work with the existing squad and get more out of them, certainly in the first instance.

If the chance comes to bring in more pace, width and creativity then we should go for it, but it should be tinkering rather than wholesale changes.

But I'm hoping that fringe players like Cairney, Caldwell and Foster, who've all shown something, force their way back into the reckoning.

:agree: :aok:

Humo
02-11-2013, 10:58 AM
I had this conversation yesterday with a mate after watching Hibs all year since the Malmo game, finally a full Pat Fenlon selected and settled side. The only players for me that are good enough currently:

Paul Heffernan
Scott Robertson
Liam Craig
Kevin Thomson
Ben Williams
Abdellah Zoubir ( lots of potential there )
Alex Harris

James Collins should be doing better than he is, i'd keep him around.

I knew that Rowan Vine wasn't great but I didn't expect him to be as woeful as he has been, terrible terrible first touch.

We are back to needing almost a whole new team, which is the exact position we were in last year and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that. I have nothing against the players that didn't make my wee list but from watching them this season( and last where applicable) they just don't seem to cut it.

This is based on our regulars I am not including the youngsters just pushing through they all still have time to develop in to decent players.

I agree with all of them but I'd also keep: Ryan McGivern, Lewis Stevenson (maybe) and Nelson

weonlywon6-2
02-11-2013, 11:04 AM
I had this conversation yesterday with a mate after watching Hibs all year since the Malmo game, finally a full Pat Fenlon selected and settled side. The only players for me that are good enough currently:

Paul Heffernan
Scott Robertson
Liam Craig
Kevin Thomson
Ben Williams
Abdellah Zoubir ( lots of potential there )
Alex Harris

James Collins should be doing better than he is, i'd keep him around.

I knew that Rowan Vine wasn't great but I didn't expect him to be as woeful as he has been, terrible terrible first touch.

We are back to needing almost a whole new team, which is the exact position we were in last year and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that. I have nothing against the players that didn't make my wee list but from watching them this season( and last where applicable) they just don't seem to cut it.

This is based on our regulars I am not including the youngsters just pushing through they all still have time to develop in to decent players.



Keep them all,there are good players at the club and some that just need a chance.
Collins,vine may get better,hopefully new manager can sort that

rcarter1
02-11-2013, 11:11 AM
Keep them all,there are good players at the club and some that just need a chance.
Collins,vine may get better,hopefully new manager can sort that

Agree. That will be the managers first task. Find out who is up for it, who has got the ability to play the positions he sets out, build the confidence of any loose ends, and then when he has had a chance to assess, dump anyone that isnt going to cut it. It isnt long before we have a transfer window, so a lot could change reasonable quickly.

cabbageandribs1875
02-11-2013, 11:16 AM
tell yi one thing, the players better step up to the mark now...no hiding place for them, if they continue to have those 'off days' it's because they just simply don't have the quality and nothing to do with PF's tactics

calumhibee1
02-11-2013, 11:17 AM
Williams
Hanlon
McGivern
Stevenson
Maybury
Nelson
Thomson
Craig
Jones
Taiwo
Robertson
Heffernan
Harris

Are all good enough to be at least squad players IMO. After that I wouldn't be fussed if the rest left.

number9dream
02-11-2013, 11:17 AM
Precisely. :greengrin

I'll second that "precisely".

New right-back and new wide midfielder in January please... Might be hard to find necessary quality at that time of year but surely a couple of loan deals could be done.

neil7908
02-11-2013, 12:16 PM
I think the squad is reasonable but still lacks a couple of players with real quality going forward who can change a game and the defence needs some work (a genuine RB is a must for the new manager).

I was speaking to a guy from work who is a Motherwell fan living in Edinburgh so goes to watch Hibs vs. Well home and away and after the game on Wednesday was talking about the same flaws in the team that myself and others pick up constantly - slow, one paced midfield, no width and no one who is linking attack and defence. He talked about the ball always going from defence to attack and very little attacking threat from Hibs coming from outwide whereas when he had watched Motherwell play Hibs, they were always attacking done the lines to great effect.

I know Harris is injured but to me its crazy to have a squad with only 1 genuine winger, an 18 year old with less than 1 season of experience in the SPL at that. We've got a core of players who are above average quality for the league along with others who are decent but there's no natural width and both full backs aren't great going forward either. This results in our play being very narrow as Robertson, Zoubir and Craig who are all playing wide seem to drift inside to their natural positions. against SPL sides playing with 4-5 in the middle of the park it becomes impossible to find a way through, especially without some like Latapy who can unlock defences with very little room.

The squad is decent but if we really expect 2nd or 3rd this season even with a good manager we'll need to bring in a quality right back, another winger and depending on how the likes of Collins and Zoubir get on, possibly another striker or attacking midfielder. I am also yet to be fully convinced that McGivern and Nelson any better than average SPL players and if we are really ambitious I'd like to see us bring in quality in those positions.

Plenty of hope for the future but we still need work as right now we have about 5-6 central midfielders, a handful of centre backs, no natural wingers and only 1 fit fullback.

Unseen work
02-11-2013, 12:45 PM
Don't think there are too many players I would get rid of I just think with a new manager, bit of confidence And playing the right way and we will see them player better.

We have lacked width and creativity but with handling and Harris coming back, introduction of zoubir then getting cAirney back to his best aswell it all of a sudden looks better.

I would also like to see the centre of midfield being Thomson and Robertson as think that has a good mix to it! Really like taiwo but think Robertson would make a big creative difference in there

lord bunberry
02-11-2013, 12:56 PM
We need to see how these guys perform under the next manager before we can judge them properly, look at the difference mowbray made to blobbys team.

Fergus52
02-11-2013, 01:08 PM
I had this conversation yesterday with a mate after watching Hibs all year since the Malmo game, finally a full Pat Fenlon selected and settled side. The only players for me that are good enough currently:

Paul Heffernan
Scott Robertson
Liam Craig
Kevin Thomson
Ben Williams
Abdellah Zoubir ( lots of potential there )
Alex Harris

James Collins should be doing better than he is, i'd keep him around.

I knew that Rowan Vine wasn't great but I didn't expect him to be as woeful as he has been, terrible terrible first touch.

We are back to needing almost a whole new team, which is the exact position we were in last year and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that. I have nothing against the players that didn't make my wee list but from watching them this season( and last where applicable) they just don't seem to cut it.

This is based on our regulars I am not including the youngsters just pushing through they all still have time to develop in to decent players.

Wow.

So you would punt Stevenson, Hanlon, Mcgivern, Taiwo, handling and Caldwell?

Hopefully our next manager will have more common sense than you

pacorosssco
02-11-2013, 02:16 PM
I think KT will be moved on. I hope shows more but I can see OTJ and Robertson being tried by new manager to find balance.

Aldo
02-11-2013, 02:39 PM
Tell you what you can tell the folk that should be posting on another forum and bit this one.

Quite a bit of trolling going in at the moment on the MB.

String enough squad but pace and width is what we are missing. Apart from that (important) we should be up there

hibeeleicester
02-11-2013, 06:37 PM
Keep them all, we have a very good squad.

Well done Pat! :agree:

Franck Stanton
02-11-2013, 06:56 PM
Think that with a manager with a bit of tactical awareness and common sense to play players in their correct positions, not have a left-footed midfield player at right back, and with a few additions in Jan window [R/Back is a must, pacey wide player, and maybe being a bit greedy here a quality, commanding c/half] we could still achieve something this season. To accommodate the additions I would advocate getting shot of : McPake, Vine, OTJ and Clancy for reasons that have been well documented already. All hinges on getting the right man in.

Kato
02-11-2013, 07:04 PM
I had this conversation yesterday with a mate after watching Hibs all year since the Malmo game, finally a full Pat Fenlon selected and settled side. The only players for me that are good enough currently:

Paul Heffernan
Scott Robertson
Liam Craig
Kevin Thomson
Ben Williams
Abdellah Zoubir ( lots of potential there )
Alex Harris

James Collins should be doing better than he is, i'd keep him around.

I knew that Rowan Vine wasn't great but I didn't expect him to be as woeful as he has been, terrible terrible first touch.

We are back to needing almost a whole new team, which is the exact position we were in last year and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that. I have nothing against the players that didn't make my wee list but from watching them this season( and last where applicable) they just don't seem to cut it.

This is based on our regulars I am not including the youngsters just pushing through they all still have time to develop in to decent players.

Any manager coming in would give the players a clean slate, then take things from there. It's better for the club if the fans follow suit.

rcarter1
02-11-2013, 08:06 PM
Any manager coming in would give the players a clean slate, then take things from there. It's better for the club if the fans follow suit.

Would be great if it were to happen.

On the other side of the coin, some of the players may have lost faith in the fans, and a new manager needs to sort out who is still up for it.

1st day in: Everyone up for fighting for the team stand to the left, everyone else to the right. Give em five minutes and see whos where.

If they all stand on the right, resign!! :greengrin

Gordon Quinn
02-11-2013, 09:25 PM
Would be great if it were to happen.

On the other side of the coin, some of the players may have lost faith in the fans, and a new manager needs to sort out who is still up for it.

1st day in: Everyone up for fighting for the team stand to the left, everyone else to the right. Give em five minutes and see whos where.

If they all stand on the right, resign!! :greengrin

Problem in midfield (lack of width, pace, etc) is well documented as is the stick force.
A massive problem is our inability to play any sort of football from the back. Jury's still out on Nelson but ive seen enough from hanlon and mcpake to tell me they've very little football in them. Both need to move on fot their sake as well as ours.

Gordon Quinn
02-11-2013, 09:45 PM
Would be great if it were to happen.

On the other side of the coin, some of the players may have lost faith in the fans, and a new manager needs to sort out who is still up for it.

1st day in: Everyone up for fighting for the team stand to the left, everyone else to the right. Give em five minutes and see whos where.

If they all stand on the right, resign!! :greengrin

Problem in midfield (lack of width, pace, etc) is well documented as is the stick force.
A massive problem is our inability to play any sort of football from the back. Jury's still out on Nelson but ive seen enough from hanlon and mcpake to tell me they've very little football in them. Both need to move on fot their sake as well as ours.

Hermit Crab
02-11-2013, 09:48 PM
Bollix. 2nd best squad in the league.

Bollox, Aberdeen have a far better squad than us.

Onceinawhile
02-11-2013, 10:01 PM
Bollox, Aberdeen have a far better squad than us.

Don't know about squad (I have no idea about Aberdeen's strength and depth) but their starting 11 is almost man for man better than ours.

HappyHibby93
03-11-2013, 06:32 PM
I think you are pretty much spot on although the jury is still out for me on Nelson. He does a lot of simple defensive stuff well but his distribution is poor and is a bomb scare at times.

Would say you're probably right. Good solid defender for me, although no the most technically gifted. Although, when the going gets tough, he'll stand up and get stuck in

judas
03-11-2013, 07:34 PM
Another mass clear out is not what we need - we don't want yet another 'period of transition.'

The brief should be to find a guy who wants to work with the existing squad and get more out of them, certainly in the first instance.

If the chance comes to bring in more pace, width and creativity then we should go for it, but it should be tinkering rather than wholesale changes.

But I'm hoping that fringe players like Cairney, Caldwell and Foster, who've all shown something, force their way back into the reckoning.

Agree with this.

Improvements should be incremental. Extracting more from from the existing squad should be the starting point.

johnrebus
03-11-2013, 07:53 PM
Williams, Thomson and Harris.

Er, thats it.........,

NorthNorfolkHFC
03-11-2013, 08:07 PM
Keep them all until I've seen them deployed properly.

At the moment I'm nature of Taiwo, Vine and Stevenson.

BSEJVT
03-11-2013, 08:28 PM
I don't get why people think we have a strong squad when its fairly obvious we have very little pace, very little creativity, not much in the way of width and we don't even have a right back. Doesn't seem much of a squad to me.

Agree with most of the above, but would say that the squad is big enough and has enough quality, its just a pity that its ludicrously top heavy with central /defensive midfielders to the exclusion of the shortcomings highlighted above.

S.sct
03-11-2013, 08:45 PM
Would keep tha majority, think a good manager could get this lot playing pretty quickly. Would still like to add pace and a right back though. Oh and bit Vine please......


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GreenOnions
03-11-2013, 10:50 PM
Williams, Thomson and Harris.

Er, thats it.........,

:rolleyes:

Jordon Forster, Paul Hanlon, Lewis Stevenson, Scott Robertson, Tudur-Jones, Liam Craig, Paul Heffernan and Tom Taiwo are all players who have shown they can perform well at this level and would be sought by other SPFL clubs if they were to leave Hibs. I think Stanton looks like a player and I really think we need to give Collins a chance when we actually have some crosses coming into the box from wide players.