Does STF have to leave before we can improve?

[blackpoolhibs]

We all know STF saved us, but how long can we keep praising him for that while we continue to flounder like a struggling fish?

While STF is at the club, he will continue to employ Petrie, enough said about that.

How we get rid is another question, but i don't see any other answer.

[Bostonhibby]

We all know STF saved us, but how long can we keep praising him for that while we continue to flounder like a struggling fish?

While STF is at the club, he will continue to employ Petrie, enough said about that.

How we get rid is another question, but i don't see any other answer.

Yep, its a tough one since his only commitment was saving us way back then - the history of how and why he appointed Petrie is well known and probably vindicated against the "financial stability" test.

What we now have is an owner and to a lesser extent chairman who has such a large shareholding that they could go one of two ways - sell up to another owner where you are a bit hostage to fortune whatever any incomer might say (remember that nice Mr Romanov?) or they could offer a beneficial terms sale of their holding to the fans - but on what terms and how is subsequent security to be guaranteed?

It is too much to expect a straightforward handover to a protective trust / greater meaningful fan representation since whilst I believe STF has delivered that security he promised I feel thats as far as his generosity was ever intended to extend.

The shareholding structure makes anything that STF doesn't consent to impossible and a challenge by any other combined or individual shareholding futile.

If anyone knows where Vlad is maybe we could get him to instal a couple of bunk beds and we could send our owners over? :wink:

[Alfred E Newman]

Last nights result had nothing to do with Farmer. Manager ,coaching staff and players, they have to carry the can.

[JustSimplyHibs]

We all know STF saved us, but how long can we keep praising him for that while we continue to flounder like a struggling fish?

While STF is at the club, he will continue to employ Petrie, enough said about that.

How we get rid is another question, but i don't see any other answer.


Their is no answer other than do not attend Easter Road, instead go and watch the youngsters or, the ladies team. Bucket collection which goes straight to youth development or the ladies. You never know, if a large majority do this, they may have to move the matches to ER to cope with the large numbers.

Would rather my cash went on the future of my club and into youth development for the time being instead of paying folk like Vine.

The only other thing i can think of is pressure such as bombarding football phone-ins, letters of complaint to the board, boycotting the new Nike clubshop (wonder how Nike would feel!), bombard newspaper reporters so they start asking questions, shut down Farmer's businesses (if he has any) by picketing outside them, it's the 21st Century man and use the technology to our advantage. Or a big banner that says PETRIE - SHOW A BIT OF BUSINESS SAVVY, GO AN DO-ONE, YA PLEB!!! - but it has to be big as i cannae read the wee banners that sometimes get shown, such as the one the other week "end harassment" or something like that - couldnae read it!

But as you say, as long as Farmer is here, Petrie is here, but you never know the light might finally switch on.

[bighairyfaeleith]

Yes lets get rid of an owner that doesn't meddle, backs us when we need it and has ensured we are one of the most financially stable football clubs in Britain.

We have our faults, but there not STF's

[blackpoolhibs]

Yes lets get rid of an owner that doesn't meddle, backs us when we need it and has ensured we are one of the most financially stable football clubs in Britain.

We have our faults, but there not STF's


His continual support for Petrie is harming the club in my opinion, why he continues to do this is beyond me?

[7 Hills]

Who the **** do you bring in?! Just been watching the BBC highlights - much as I remembered, we were all over the c***s and their goal was spawny as ****! It was ever thus, I'm afraid.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/24752700#asset

And I see James McPake has closed down his Twitter account. Well, as far as I'm concerned James, you did your job, but you should've hit that Jambo ****** harder than you did and made the red card worthwhile!

[Pete]

We all know STF saved us, but how long can we keep praising him for that while we continue to flounder like a struggling fish?

While STF is at the club, he will continue to employ Petrie, enough said about that.

How we get rid is another question, but i don't see any other answer.

Nope. Employing a decent manager with a footballing philosophy will solve all our problems....and he has to be given time to get it right.

The question we should be asking is: have our board ever done these two things at the same time?

[bighairyfaeleith]

His continual support for Petrie is harming the club in my opinion, why he continues to do this is beyond me?

In some of the toughest times ever witnessed he has kept the club on an even keel, despite numerous ***** managers we have managed to not go bust. As much as thats not exciting it's an important fact.

I want a decent manager, I want to see the board be adventurous and bring in a decent pedigree foreign coach, spend a few quid on it and reduce the player budget accordingly. However it's to easy to just blame petrie, in fact it's just lazy IMO. Things are not right, but there not beyond repair either.

I just get fed up with the hysterics on this board at times to be honest.

[Bostonhibby]

In some of the toughest times ever witnessed he has kept the club on an even keel, despite numerous ***** managers we have managed to not go bust. As much as thats not exciting it's an important fact.

I want a decent manager, I want to see the board be adventurous and bring in a decent pedigree foreign coach, spend a few quid on it and reduce the player budget accordingly. However it's to easy to just blame petrie, in fact it's just lazy IMO. Things are not right, but there not beyond repair either.

I just get fed up with the hysterics on this board at times to be honest.

:agree:

[bighairyfaeleith]

Nope. Employing a decent manager with a footballing philosophy will solve all our problems....and he has to be given time to get it right.

The question we should be asking is: have our board ever done these two things at the same time?

No unfortunately they haven't. However after calderwood we wanted someone to steady the ship. make us hard to beat and for this manager to not be sacked as a reflex action. The board have done this, it's now not right but they have committed to giving fenlon three years, much to the agreement of the fans at the time.

I actually think the board are guilty of listening to the fans too much, they should just ignore us because generally speaking we talk a load of pish, and just do what they believe to be right. Aka Mowbray, we never expected that one did we?

[tamig]

We all know STF saved us, but how long can we keep praising him for that while we continue to flounder like a struggling fish?

While STF is at the club, he will continue to employ Petrie, enough said about that.

How we get rid is another question, but i don't see any other answer.
Lets say Rod's next appointment really works out, will we still be demanding that he leaves and still be implying that there are "deep rooted" problems at the club? I believe this is all pish. There is one problem only. RP has not been lucky with recent appointments. Pat's time must now be up and I'm convinced someone like Kenny Shiels could really do something good with this squad. I do hope it happens soon though. Getting STF out is probably the worst thing we could do just now imo.

[greenpaper55]

Lets say Rod's next appointment really works out, will we still be demanding that he leaves and still be implying that there are "deep rooted" problems at the club? I believe this is all pish. There is one problem only. RP has not been lucky with recent appointments. Pat's time must now be up and I'm convinced someone like Kenny Shiels could really do something good with this squad. I do hope it happens soon though. Getting STF out is probably the worst thing we could do just now imo.

Not been lucky ! what has luck to do with picking a manager ?, some knowledge of football would be a starter which anyone on the board patently do not have. Choosing a decent manager is not like picking a name and maybe it will turn up trumps you have to do your homework and then pay the going price for someone that has proved themselves at a decent level, do you see the word that sends shivers down Rods spine-Price. He has gone for the cheap option in the hope of unearthing a latter day mowbrey that will then come good and netting Hibs a small fortune when he moves on, everything has a price for our Rod and when he's buying it's usually low.

[Jones28]

The club is for sale to the right buyer. Trouble is, who in their right mind is going to invest in scottish football?

Game in decline with (at this point) a monopoly for the title, with the standards of continental football moving further and further away from us.

[Sir David Gray]

We need a change of direction at boardroom level, I've been saying that for a few years now and I've yet to see anything that's changed my mind.

We have tried going down the route of changing the manager (several times) and it's not helped. If we remove Pat Fenlon, I have absolutely no confidence in the board replacing him with someone who is going to be with us for the next 4 or 5 years, delivering consistency and success. For me, we need a board in place who will announce a clear set of challenging but achievable targets that they want the manager to try and meet and I also want a clear pathway put in place for short and longer term goals. These things should be communicated publicly to the fans during things like fans forums, shareholders' meetings, social media and also through the press so that everyone knows where they stand and what the expectation levels are at the club.

What we tend to get just now from the board, whenever we ask for any clarification on what targets we have in place is total ambiguity and going on about how we need to be up "near the top end of the league" etc which doesn't really help anyone.

I said that we needed a change at boardroom level when Calderwood left. Almost two years on, I feel exactly the same now as I did back then. Changing the manager is not going to solve anything in the long term. We have bigger issues than that and it needs to be sorted out as soon as possible.

[Northernhibee]

No - we need a couple of players who can beat a man upfront and create chances and we're not far off (a change of manager according to some but overall I'm not even convinced of that).

To question STF after all he's done for the club is absurd.

[Onion]

Yes lets get rid of an owner that doesn't meddle, backs us when we need it and has ensured we are one of the most financially stable football clubs in Britain.

We have our faults, but there not STF's

IMHO what's needed is a root and branch review of the whole club to id the issues. A blind man can see there's something fundamentally wrong which the Board have failed to identify or address in the last 6 years (and arguably the last 30 years). This can only be commissioned by the owner, no one else. So to say STF's non-meddling is an advantage, is just wrong. The owner has a far bigger role than just ticking financial boxes. He/she sets the tone, culture and goals for the club.

IMHO acceptance of underperformance is endemic at Hibs. Communications and engagement with fans are a disgrace. If this was an ordinary business, Hibs would have gone out of business long ago.

[Onion]

We need a change of direction at boardroom level, I've been saying that for a few years now and I've yet to see anything that's changed my mind.

We have tried going down the route of changing the manager (several times) and it's not helped. If we remove Pat Fenlon, I have absolutely no confidence in the board replacing him with someone who is going to be with us for the next 4 or 5 years, delivering consistency and success. For me, we need a board in place who will announce a clear set of challenging but achievable targets that they want the manager to try and meet and I also want a clear pathway put in place for short and longer term goals. These things should be communicated publicly to the fans during things like fans forums, shareholders' meetings, social media and also through the press so that everyone knows where they stand and what the expectation levels are at the club.

What we tend to get just now from the board, whenever we ask for any clarification on what targets we have in place is total ambiguity and going on about how we need to be up "near the top end of the league" etc which doesn't really help anyone.

I said that we needed a change at boardroom level when Calderwood left. Almost two years on, I feel exactly the same now as I did back then. Changing the manager is not going to solve anything in the long term. We have bigger issues than that and it needs to be sorted out as soon as possible.

Totally agree.

[SneakersO'Toole]

IMHO what's needed is a root and branch review of the whole club to id the issues. A blind man can see there's something fundamentally wrong which the Board have failed to identify or address in the last 6 years (and arguably the last 30 years). This can only be commissioned by the owner, no one else. So to say STF's non-meddling is an advantage, is just wrong. The owner has a far bigger role than just ticking financial boxes. He/she sets the tone, culture and goals for the club.

IMHO acceptance of underperformance is endemic at Hibs. Communications and engagement with fans are a disgrace. If this was an ordinary business, Hibs would have gone out of business long ago.

Spot on. Petrie's floundering at the recent AGM told me all I need to know about Hibs and its 'direction' which is essentially hit and hope. Its absolutely no wonder that the club is regressing.

[The Falcon]

If one of you guys wants to step forward with around £8m-£10m (to reimburse STF) then I am sure you will be able to appoint whoever you want to run the club. Easy.

[jakeshibs]

We all know STF saved us, but how long can we keep praising him for that while we continue to flounder like a struggling fish?

While STF is at the club, he will continue to employ Petrie, enough said about that.

How we get rid is another question, but i don't see any other answer.

With out the support and back of STF and his diligence we would not have a team, he is the reason we can still buy players while others teams in Scotland can not! He is not the reason however poor tactics and players are! you have your opinion as I do mine, but will have to disagree with you and thank STF, for giving us a future.

[SneakersO'Toole]

With out the support and back of STF and his diligence we would not have a team, he is the reason we can still buy players while others teams in Scotland can not! He is not the reason however poor tactics and players are! you have your opinion as I do mine, but will have to disagree with you and thank STF, for giving us a future.

Aye, a bleak future at that (footballing wise).

[southsider]

Last nights result had nothing to do with Farmer. Manager ,coaching staff and players, they have to carry the can.

Sorry but it has EVERYTHING to do with STF. The whole club is in freefall. He has enough money so should just walk away with Petrie. We just live within our means, keep paying him the loans but get proper football people on the board who understand Hibs and us, the fans. Perhaps, then we may attract Hibs people onto a new board who may want to invest a little capital into the club. Astute people who will never overspend but may attract good managers who would never darken our door under Petrie.

[southsider]

If one of you guys wants to step forward with around £8m-£10m (to reimburse STF) then I am sure you will be able to appoint whoever you want to run the club. Easy.

He is already worth approx. £80 million so what is another £8m mean to him ? It's chickenfeed. Just go now STF, take Petrie with you and you will have our thanks forever. Dont forget when he built the flats on, which once was, the car park, he was £10 mill to the good even after handing us back the ground. We can continue to pay him back the loans and live within our means but may be able to attract new investment and be a real community based club.

[tamig]

Not been lucky ! what has luck to do with picking a manager ?, some knowledge of football would be a starter which anyone on the board patently do not have. Choosing a decent manager is not like picking a name and maybe it will turn up trumps you have to do your homework and then pay the going price for someone that has proved themselves at a decent level, do you see the word that sends shivers down Rods spine-Price. He has gone for the cheap option in the hope of unearthing a latter day mowbrey that will then come good and netting Hibs a small fortune when he moves on, everything has a price for our Rod and when he's buying it's usually low.
As mentioned before on here I think most fans have welcomed each of the appointments since JC left. Most looked reasonable on paper but just haven't worked out. I do think there is an element (not total obviously) of luck in any managerial appointment at a football club. Don't believe for one minute that finances have dictated every appointment. His biggest mistake was not cashing in on CC when he had the chance. Going back to the OP, I'm convinced a change of manager - the right manager - would solve all of the current problems.

[bob12345]

I think the idea mentiooned earlier to go and support the youths or ladies instead is an excellent one. Shows we still back the club but not the regime. If the EOS team were playing on the same day as the first team were at home, and got a 4 figure attendance...

[smurf]

At some point our club will have to move on from Sir Tom Farmer. And going by the fear in many of my fellow Hibees I really do fear that day as without him we are obviously completely doomed....

[blackpoolhibs]

At some point our club will have to move on from Sir Tom Farmer. And going by the fear in many of my fellow Hibees I really do fear that day as without him we are obviously completely doomed....

:agree:
Some folk are frightened of their own shadow, tonight being Halloween, i fear for some of them.

[jdships]

Yes lets get rid of an owner that doesn't meddle, backs us when we need it and has ensured we are one of the most financially stable football clubs in Britain.

We have our faults, but there not STF's

:thumbsup::agree::top marks

This is all down to manager and or players - end of :rolleyes:

[jdships]

He is already worth approx. £80 million so what is another £8m mean to him ? It's chickenfeed. Just go now STF, take Petrie with you and you will have our thanks forever. Dont forget when he built the flats on, which once was, the car park, he was £10 mill to the good even after handing us back the ground. We can continue to pay him back the loans and live within our means but may be able to attract new investment and be a real community based club.

Just be careful what you wish for :rolleyes::wink:

[Onion]

:thumbsup::agree::top marks

This is all down to manager and or players - end of :rolleyes:

Fenlon wasn't self-appointed. He's the latest is a long series of manager appointments by someone in the club who has failed in their job. So let's just leave them in place and see if they get lucky the next time :aok:

[Ray_]

Last nights result had nothing to do with Farmer. Manager ,coaching staff and players, they have to carry the can.

Without reading the rest of the thread [disclaimer stuck in there] Tom Farmer insists that Petrie is doing a good job, but the only target that ever gets achieved is the balance sheet, our performance other than that is dismal and has been for some time. The fact we haven't tried to change this is firmly and utterly down to Tom Farmer.

[jdships]

Fenlon wasn't self-appointed. He's the latest is a long series of manager appointments by someone in the club who has failed in their job. So let's just leave them in place and see if they get lucky the next time :aok:

Just stop and think for a moment about your own work place .
Have you never found that a charge hand/foreman/ supervisor/manager has proved to be not up to the job ?
Of course you have - we all have if we are honest !!
Did you then go around saying sack the owner /director's etc for putting him/her in place ?
No you just accepted they were not up to it

A person is appointed based on their show of ability , CV whatever ( what else ) and if they don't live up to that whose fault is it
Life is not all black and white unfortunately !!

[The Falcon]

He is already worth approx. £80 million so what is another £8m mean to him ? It's chickenfeed. Just go now STF, take Petrie with you and you will have our thanks forever. Dont forget when he built the flats on, which once was, the car park, he was £10 mill to the good even after handing us back the ground. We can continue to pay him back the loans and live within our means but may be able to attract new investment and be a real community based club.

Utter nonsense. Please read this and get back to us http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?135671-So-what-happened-to-the-money-from-the-car-park

[Ray_]

Just stop and think for a moment about your own work place .
Have you never found that a charge hand/foreman/ supervisor/manager has proved to be not up to the job ?
Of course you have - we all have if we are honest !!
Did you then go around saying sack the owner /director's etc for putting him/her in place ?
No you just accepted they were not up to it

A person is appointed based on their show of ability , CV whatever ( what else ) and if they don't live up to that whose fault is it
Life is not all black and white unfortunately !!

If most work places produced the same sort of quality they have been dishing out at ER for the last five years, they would have been shut down by now.

[Keith_M]

Sadly, I think the answer is yes. He is too hands-off and his almost blind support of Petrie means we will forever stagnate as a club.

It's unfortunate that anyone that states this is almost immediately attacked for having no loyalty to the man that saved the club. I don't believe that for a minute, because I will forever be grateful it's just that there had to be a time for him to go at some point and this is surely it.

The liquidation of Rangers and Hearts current problems were a possibly one-off oppportunity for Hibs to kick on and establish themselves as one of the genuinely larger Scottish clubs. That opportunity has been lost.

[NAE NOOKIE]

My opinion of STF has never been a secret on here.

I will always be grateful to him for saving Hibs. He was the right man at the right time and his action at the time was all the more laudable given that he wasnt actually a Hibs supporter.

But the job ( no, not job, duty ) of the owner of a football club is to see that club be a success on the pitch. STFs reason for getting involved in the first place was to save the club for the community. The problem is that he still sees that as his job and if Hibs chug along in mediocrity on the pitch its not such a big problem so long as the club is there.

But that is where he fails to understand the bigger picture. The whole point of a professional football club is to win stuff and finish as high up the league as possible and to get into Europe. If it isnt then it would be a hell of a lot cheaper for the club to go amatuer and play in the EOSL.

As I've said before ..... Its a bit like me winning the lottery and renovating a castle .. bringing it back to its former glory, but then filling it with furniture from IKEA and letting the gardens go to crap with auld fridges, broken down cars and matresses cluttering it up.

That is why this club needs a new owner ... we need somebody or some group to whom the football club is all about success on the pitch. Under STF that will never be the priority and at this juncture thats what we need.

I just dont get why so many folk are frightened of having a new owner .... not every football club owner is a Mad Vlad. Yes some clubs have been destroyed by having crooks and idiots as owners .. but they are in the minority as far as I can see.

[Keith_M]

Just stop and think for a moment about your own work place .
Have you never found that a charge hand/foreman/ supervisor/manager has proved to be not up to the job ?
Of course you have - we all have if we are honest !!
Did you then go around saying sack the owner /director's etc for putting him/her in place ?
No you just accepted they were not up to it

A person is appointed based on their show of ability , CV whatever ( what else ) and if they don't live up to that whose fault is it
Life is not all black and white unfortunately !!


Actually, if a Director makes a long list of inferior management appointments and the business suffers as a result, he actually would find himself ousted.

It's a slightly different situation at a football club in that most businesses results are based on financials but a football club's is on it's results. The same principle applies though.

[Sir David Gray]

Just stop and think for a moment about your own work place .
Have you never found that a charge hand/foreman/ supervisor/manager has proved to be not up to the job ?
Of course you have - we all have if we are honest !!
Did you then go around saying sack the owner /director's etc for putting him/her in place ?
No you just accepted they were not up to it

A person is appointed based on their show of ability , CV whatever ( what else ) and if they don't live up to that whose fault is it
Life is not all black and white unfortunately !!

I absolutely agree with that but what we have here at Hibs is not just a one off bad appointment, which you can excuse and put down to bad luck. We have had five or six years worth of football which has been, in the main, very poor quality and we are underachieving in a very big way.

That, in my opinion, cannot be excused and there comes a point where you need to move on from simply changing the manager and look further up the ladder.

As far as I'm concerned, we are at that point now.