Cup tied ruling (merged)

[NW]

Why do we still have this rule no the trasnfer window applies? Not like you can sign the others teams best player before a later round?

Why should Heff miss cup game because he played 30 mins in the 2nd round for killie?

Restriction of trade :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

:top marks

It should be scrapped before tonight's game.

Then tomorrow, when we remember the rule was made to protect teams from having their players poached by opponents during a competition, it should be reinstated.

But not backdated. :wink:

[JHFC]

does this mean he only misses one round or can't we pick him for the rest of this competition?

[hfc rd]

does this mean he only misses one round or can't we pick him for the rest of this competition?

Misses the whole competition unfortunately. :(

[Viva_Palmeiras]

:top marks

It should be scrapped before tonight's game.

Then tomorrow, when we remember the rule was made to protect teams from having their players poached by opponents during a competition, it should be reinstated.

But not backdated. :wink:

It doesn't tho does it? Since the rule was written the transfer window has come in.

[PeterboroHibee]

Players becoming cup tied is daft and outdated with the transfer window in place. As has been pointed out, Heff played 30 minutes for Killie and is now unavailable for the entire cup, why?

[ballengeich]

I agree with the rule that a player should only be able to play for one team in a cup.

However, I'd like the transfer window changed so that it closes before the first competitive game of the season.

[Hibercelona]

Don't really understand the rule. He plays for us now, he should be able to play for us in a cup game, despite playing a part in another game for a club he once played for.


What harm could it do? Why is the rule actually there?

[Liberal Hibby]

when we remember the rule was made to protect teams from having their players poached by opponents during a competition

That surely applies to league games too though? Isn't it an argument to ban mid season transfers of any kind?

[Argylehibby]

Don't really understand the rule. He plays for us now, he should be able to play for us in a cup game, despite playing a part in another game for a club he once played for.


What harm could it do? Why is the rule actually there?

I think the rule was there originally to stop a team that has reached the latter stages of the cup going out and buying a couple of players to strengthen the team for the run in only to transfer them back once the season was over. for example Celtic have the league all but clinched but were pumped out the cup in an earlier round. Hibs in the semi finals then buy Commons, stokes and Brown then go onto win the cup. In the summer they sell them back to tic, at a discount so Celtic get extra cash still win the league and we win the cup. Also applies where the selling teams have nothing to play for, so buy players from Motherwell Aberdeen etc. if they are out of the cup but already qualified or can't qualify for Europe and sell them back in the close season.

[cam75]

Same happend when we sighned Nish from Killie I think?
GGTTH

[lyonhibs]

It doesn't tho does it? Since the rule was written the transfer window has come in.

The transfer window does span over the starting rounds of the cup competitions though.

That said, I agree in principle. We couldn't have signed Heffernan the night before a semi-final vs Killie, which may previously have been the case, so it does seem a bit redundant.

Would also minimise the farce of seeing good players on the bench/in the stands for CL games when another CL club is reported to be interested in them and the parent club doesn't want to reduce the potential fee by having the player cup-tied for another club.

[MB62]

Players becoming cup tied is daft and outdated with the transfer window in place. As has been pointed out, Heff played 30 minutes for Killie and is now unavailable for the entire cup, why?

Tend to agree that the transfer window has changed the original idea of being cup tied. I would say now that a player who has played previously for a team in the cup and then signs for another team in the transfer window, should probably miss his new clubs' next round game, then if they progress, he becomes available.
The transfer window has put a stop to this signing players just for semi-final or final

[Purple & Green]

That surely applies to league games too though? Isn't it an argument to ban mid season transfers of any kind?

I think France for one has a league-tied rule too.

[Bristolhibby]

I guess its the inherant risk of buying a player who we all know has already played in the Cup.

No idea why it is different to the league (i.e. have transfer windows).

Imagine a player being "League tied"?!?

J

[Bristolhibby]

I think France for one has a league-tied rule too.

Not much French club to French club transfer in January then.

J

[Spike Mandela]

Don't really understand the rule. He plays for us now, he should be able to play for us in a cup game, despite playing a part in another game for a club he once played for.


What harm could it do? Why is the rule actually there?

A player could play for us in early round say against Celtic, give away penalty and get sent off thus costing us game. Then in January he could sign for Celtic play in Final and win the cup with them. Clearly wrong. Fundamentally no player should have two cracks at a cup competition.

[ancient hibee]

Players becoming cup tied is daft and outdated with the transfer window in place. As has been pointed out, Heff played 30 minutes for Killie and is now unavailable for the entire cup, why?
No it's not.A player could play in the league cup-be transferred in mid season and play in the final for a different team.That would be wrong.

[MB62]

No it's not.A player could play in the league cup-be transferred in mid season and play in the final for a different team.That would be wrong.

II know where you are coming from here, and why that is exactly why the rule is in place, but it is the club/team that win cups not the individual. A player has no choice in whether he plays or not and could be put in the ridiculous position of coming on in injury time to play a minute and that's him for the whole tournament.
As I mentioned earlier, I think it is time now that, given the transfer window, there should be a bit more relaxation of the rules. A player signed in the transfer window who signs for another club, should miss the next one or two rounds for his new club then be eligible to play. Missing two round would mean anybody signed during the January window, would probably not be able to play in the semi-final or final of the league cup. There could also be a stipulation that a player has to have played more than 20 minutes for example, for him to be cup tied.

I think it need looked at.

[Andy74]

A player could play for us in early round say against Celtic, give away penalty and get sent off thus costing us game. Then in January he could sign for Celtic play in Final and win the cup with them. Clearly wrong. Fundamentally no player should have two cracks at a cup competition.

It's a team game though. Who cares if a player has previously own or lost in the competition? Would you argue the same for league games? Why the difference?

Also, what about players who win in earlier rounds - should they be allowed to rejoin their team and carry on seeing as they hadn't been put out yet?

[PeterboroHibee]

No it's not.A player could play in the league cup-be transferred in mid season and play in the final for a different team.That would be wrong.

Why would it be wrong?

The buying club have paid the money for him within the regulated time period to do so, and the selling club are presumably happy to have let him go (although not always the case). Assuming its in the January window, he would be at the new club for at least a month and a half prior to the cup final, so what difference does it make? Hypothetically, if we got to the final, you think its right that because Heffernan played half an hour for Killie in one of the first rounds he cant play in a game in March?

My interpretation of the rule is that it was to stop teams signing players leading up to a cup tie - with the transfer window, theres no reason for it.

[Keith_M]

My interpretation of the rule is that it was to stop teams signing players leading up to a cup tie - with the transfer window, theres no reason for it.


Agreed, it is outdated and should really be scrapped, as it serves no useful purpose anymore.

It's in place for now, though, so we just have to accept Heff is not available for the League Cup ties. I think the SFA should re-think this rule for next season.

[NYHibby]

Have the rules on domestic loans changed? What would stop someone like Falkirk from "renting" for 1 week players from a SPL team which had been knocked out of the cup.

[Hibs7]

I think Hibs and other teams should challenge the SFA on this ruling as I believe it breaches both human rights ( re right to work) and employment laws. Where else would you be able to change employer but not be able to work at certain times ... Archaic and a complete waste of time it should be scrapped ...

[SmashinGlass]

I think Hibs and other teams should challenge the SFA on this ruling as I believe it breaches both human rights ( re right to work) and employment laws. Where else would you be able to change employer but not be able to work at certain times ... Archaic and a complete waste of time it should be scrapped ...

Does this rule only apply in Scotland?

[Hibs7]

Does this rule only apply in Scotland?

Probably not, but even so, no matter where it is it breaches the European human rights law!!!

[Ozyhibby]

Why not have players switch sides during the game?
Say we have a striker giving Celtic a torrid time (unlikely any time soon) in the first half. Neil Lennon makes an offer at half time and he trots out in a Celtic jersey for the second half. Great idea.

It's a sports rule and has nothing to do with European employment law otherwise the above could happen.

[Spike Mandela]

We could of course just choose to not sign players who are cup tied and choose a decent striker who is available to play. We chose to sign Heff knowing he was cup tied, end of story.

[hibbeedavid]

Not to mention that the Heff was a last minute chance signing by PF's own admission! **** knows where we would be if that hadn't arisen by chance!

[ballengeich]

If we're going to challenge the cup-tied rule on the grounds that it breaches an employee's right to work let's also go for a more serious restriction. I refer of course to the rule that only allows us to field eleven players at one time - a clear breach of human rights if ever I saw one. If we'd had all of our employees on the pitch yesterday evening surely we'd have had a much better chance of scoring. Down with the petty dictators of the SFA!

[Hibs7]

If we're going to challenge the cup-tied rule on the grounds that it breaches an employee's right to work let's also go for a more serious restriction. I refer of course to the rule that only allows us to field eleven players at one time - a clear breach of human rights if ever I saw one. If we'd had all of our employees on the pitch yesterday evening surely we'd have had a much better chance of scoring. Down with the petty dictators of the SFA!

Get a grip .. The original statement complies with European legislation .. You are just being stupid ..is it any wonder the country is fekked up

[Hibs7]

Why not have players switch sides during the game?
Say we have a striker giving Celtic a torrid time (unlikely any time soon) in the first half. Neil Lennon makes an offer at half time and he trots out in a Celtic jersey for the second half. Great idea.

It's a sports rule and has nothing to do with European employment law otherwise the above could happen.

Easy seen you are resident in the sub continent .. :-)

[Ozyhibby]

Easy seen you are resident in the sub continent .. :-)

I live in Corstorphine. :-)

[givescotlandfreedom]

It is frustrating that we couldn't play our far biggest goal threat due to this rule when last night's Hearts captain shouldn't even have been allowed to sign for them.

[Jonnyboy]

I live in Corstorphine. :-)

:tee hee: