Petrie you are sitting on your arse watching this club die.

[Hibrandenburg]

There's a massive difference between aspiring towards mediocrity and an understanding of realities.

In Scotland, we are, over any meaningful length of time, on average almost exactly where we should be in terms of resource and overall size within the market/league in which we operate. The inevitable, eminently predictable and depressing thread title illustrates, to me at least, the incredibly short term nature we as fans have. We see a bad result or even a season or two as indication of appalling mismanagement. It may be right, but its just the yang to the ying of the odd good season. We'll have good seasons again, and then when we fall away as we inevitably will as other teams get a good crop of youngsters or a cash injection or get lucky with an inspirational manager for a season or two it'll be the same hand-wringing accusations of incompetence.

I don't know how good Fenlon is, really. I personally don't think we've had time to judge, but to me the signs of where we are going are better certainly than under the last 5 incumbents.

Bottom line is we are where we should be. That's not accepting mediocrity, that's just broadly understanding the game, both on the pitch and off it.

Three trophies in 40 years kinda backs that up.

I know I'm not doing you any favours by agreeing with you but I'm going to anyway :agree:

:greengrin

[greenpaper55]

Do you expect that every season or have you accepted Hibs will mostly be an also ran? 138yrs of Hibs history would point to the latter.

As a Hibs fan I've grown up, as a kid I was brainwashed into believing that Hibs are and always will be the finest team to elegantly glide across the turf, as a young man I was raging that the team I was watching dared to impersonate the gladiators of old and should be playing for the honour of our unique and great club. It's only now as a grumpy old ******* that I see the truth, Hibs are mediocre and have been for 138yrs with little flashes of brilliance now and again.

I just wish that our resident business/football guru's had been here 138yrs ago to warn us all then.

To warn you of what ?, like many on here i have watched Hibs since the early sixties and yes for many years we have been at the wrong end of the league but there were always flashes of brilliance and some superb footballing displays along the way. You have the same mind set as our leaders and until their ambitions rise above the mediocre then neither will the football on display.

[GreenCastle]

Aye Kaiser. but I wasnt even making a point that I think Hibs will ever have another Harry Swan or a manager of the calibre of those mentioned above and I'm well aware that in the modern era money talks. The point I am making is that I dont have a clue what makes a genius manager or even owner ...... but the one thing that I am sure of is that accepting their clubs place in the natural order of things wasnt one of them. They didnt and neither should we.

Actually ... As far as I can see there are not many Hibbies out there who are saying we should cake walk the league every year or that we should be winning the Scottish Cup once a decade or the League Cup twice a decade. But, it is fair to measure your clubs chances of success based on the size of its following, infrastructure and players at its disposal. On that basis we are not asking for over achievment, just that we fulfill our potential.

We currently have a manager in place who sets his team up not to lose in home games against the likes of Motherwell and Aberdeen. Other managers in this league are not stupid and neither are most of the players. This attutude only encourages other teams to come to ER and impose themselves on us coz they can smell the fear.

As for folk who think losing on Wednesday night will not be a disaster.

Not only will it be a disaster, it will be the latest disaster in a long line of disasters in the last two years.

Hearts .... 1 - 5
QOTS ..... 2 - 0
Celtic .... 3 - 0 ................... Not because of the scoreline, but because it was just so easy for them.
Malmo .... 0 - 9 .................. The worst aggragate score in 50 odd years of Scottish football in Europe.
Yams away .... 1 - 0 ........... As I recall our vastly more experienced team was supposed to walk all over them in that game.

For 2 ... against 20.

I'm a Hibby ... from the minute I sit in my seat until the final whistle at every game I cheer and shout and encourage the team ... I never abuse individual players or boo the team off. I would want my fellow Hibbies to do the same. I will be just the same on Wednesday.

But this is a Yam team who cant buy a win and who have lost two of their last 3 matches against teams they simply had to beat to have any chance of avoiding relegation. We all saw St Mirren .. they were a poor team. Not to mention the fact that one of their few experienced players ( Stevenson ) looks highly likely to miss the game through injury.

If we lose at home to that lot and its not a disaster ( I mean in football, not real life ) ..... just what is?

As for Tom Farmer. Opinion is divided I suppose. For me theres only one thing worse than a football club owner who interferes in everything and thinks he should be picking the team and thats an owner who seems satisfied to sit back and watch his club stumble from one on field crisis to the next as the people who run the club for him accept rubbish on the pitch as long as the books balance.

His people seem blind to the fact that if it hadnt been for the two cup finals our season ticket sales would be a hell of a lot worse than they currently are. A lot of people bought STs to guarantee tickets for these cup finals .... not because they were desperate to attend every home game the following season based on what they had watched the previous season.

Surely the business plan at ER isnt to hope we make the cup final every year .... is it?

:top marks

Hard to disagree with any of that -the business plan I am sure involved bringing through homegrown players to supplement experienced players - that's not fully working either - well maybe we have a few youngsters but except Harris and Hanlon - if we sell them would we get much for them?

Anyway...Wednesday is another huge test - fail it and I seriously think change may happen through a resignation or a sacking.

[Hibrandenburg]

To warn you of what ?, like many on here i have watched Hibs since the early sixties and yes for many years we have been at the wrong end of the league but there were always flashes of brilliance and some superb footballing displays along the way. You have the same mind set as our leaders and until their ambitions rise above the mediocre then neither will the football on display.

There's been as many flashes of brilliance since STF took over than before in my lifetime and arguably even more, 1 cup win before and 2 after. In my lifetime we had Turbull's Tornadoes pre STF who got the pulse racing and since then we've had the McLeish years, Mowbray and maybe even Collins. But don't let the facts stop you from slating the man.

[Golden Bear]

To warn you of what ?, like many on here i have watched Hibs since the early sixties and yes for many years we have been at the wrong end of the league but there were always flashes of brilliance and some superb footballing displays along the way. You have the same mind set as our leaders and until their ambitions rise above the mediocre then neither will the football on display.

Very well said.

Over the years, the current playing squad is by no means the worst in terms of ability, but the boring defensive football certainly places them firmly at the bottom of the entertainment league.

[Twa Cairpets]

Very well said.

Over the years, the current playing squad is by no means the worst in terms of ability, but the boring defensive football certainly places them firmly at the bottom of the entertainment league.

Aw come on.
Bertie Auld? Mogadon? Mixu? Calderwood?

[Captain Trips]

No Rangers and a Hearts in trouble and Hibs still appear to only be able to sit around mid table, gross incompetence IMO. Forget the history as a stand alone scenario this is a shocking state of affairs.

[GreenCastle]

No Rangers and a Hearts in trouble and Hibs still appear to only be able to sit around mid table, gross incompetence IMO. Forget the history as a stand alone scenario this is a shocking state of affairs.

:agree:

We often on these messageboards talk about the past - but lets focus on the present and future - We will look back on this season as a chance missed if we don't capitalise on the yams and newcos demise.

[Twa Cairpets]

:agree:

We often on these messageboards talk about the past - but lets focus on the present and future - We will look back on this season as a chance missed if we don't capitalise on the yams and newcos demise.

And precisely how to we capitalise on that, within our means?

[MWHIBBIES]

And precisely how to we capitalise on that, within our means?Everyone seems to think its as simple as

Sack manager
Give new manager more money than other teams have to spend
Finish above them

[DJ HIBBY]

And precisely how to we capitalise on that, within our means?

Bin the manager and get someone in who knows what they are doing :wink:

[TowerHibs]

How arrogant and yammish does that read?

nothing wrong with being arrogant in my eyes....Hearts fans were but finishing 3rd most seasons allowed for that. (i know it was all false financially).
Hibs should be arrogant. We have the 3rd best stadium in the country, i would say the 2nd best training centre, the 2nd biggest budget in the league. I think it is acceptable for the support to demand a better product on the park. The whole club should have a swagger, arrogance about it. We are tippy tappy from top to bottom - owner, directors, players & fans

[blackpoolhibs]

Everyone seems to think its as simple as

Sack manager
Give new manager more money than other teams have to spend
Finish above them

I don't, although i do want the man sacked, i want his replacement to just manage us using the current finances we have.

I mean there are clubs above us most seasons who manage it on MUCH less than we spend or bring in, why should we have to spend any more than we do now? :confused:

[TowerHibs]

I don't, although i do want the man sacked, i want his replacement to just manage us using the current finances we have.

I mean there are clubs above us most seasons who manage it on MUCH less than we spend or bring in, why should we have to spend any more than we do now? :confused:

to be honest, i've seen many people coming back to you and posters who feel the same with the arguement of:

"well accept this or the other route is financial mismanagement."

At no times in this thread are there people demanding more money to be spent. We are not saying we should be winning the league, out spending everyone else, winning every game. All we are asking for is a bit of drive, entertainment and direction. Or simply an identity. We have lost ourselves in the past 7 years

"Some people, when they go on holiday, just want to go to Saltcoats, 25 miles along the coast from Glasgow. Some people dont even want to do that. They are happy to stay at home or watch the birds & the ducks float by in the park, And some people want to go to the moon.

It's about People's ambitions" Last line of Sir Alex's book

[Kaiser1962]

Aye Kaiser. but I wasnt even making a point that I think Hibs will ever have another Harry Swan or a manager of the calibre of those mentioned above and I'm well aware that in the modern era money talks. The point I am making is that I dont have a clue what makes a genius manager or even owner ...... but the one thing that I am sure of is that accepting their clubs place in the natural order of things wasnt one of them. They didnt and neither should we.


My gist was that every manager starting out or currently in employment will be dreaming off being the next Alex Ferguson and how many will make it? If they fail to achieve such status does that mean they are all failures? As for Wednesday its a game of football and one we could lose. Better teams than this one have lost to poorer Hearts teams. Disaster? Why do we keep setting ourselves up like this.

[Captain Trips]

Hibs should not be struggling in this SPL to make top3 that's the bottom line if they are then the people in charge are not fit for purpose.

[Keith_M]

.....It's only now as a grumpy old ******* that I see the truth, Hibs are mediocre and have been for 138yrs with little flashes of brilliance now and again.
.


You see, I'm not quite as old as you, so I'm not yet so cynical.

I'm beginning to think you've had a birthday recently and you're feeling grumpy :na na:

[Gerard]

w
Just sack this man, and bring in someone who knows what he's doing. You are supposed to be in charge, but are failing to do your job.

FFS even andy is coming roun and thinks its nearly time for us to part ways, if you are watching the games Rod, then surely to god you can see with your own eyes just how bad the style of football this man has managed to produce after nearly 2 years.

Rod put him and the rest of us out of our misery, and give us our team back.

I think it is time for a change in our head coach

[GreenCastle]

And precisely how to we capitalise on that, within our means?

Appoint a manager who is brave enough to attack from the start - yes we will lose some but I also believe we will win more than we loose. Also a manager who can have more influence on the youth structure and utilise this better with the resources we have available.

Finishing top 4 is a minimum with the yams and newco struggling.

If we finish mid table / bottom 6 and no cup finals - ST sales will 100% be down next year even with the high possibility of the buzz of a new manager.

[NAE NOOKIE]

There's a massive difference between aspiring towards mediocrity and an understanding of realities.

In Scotland, we are, over any meaningful length of time, on average almost exactly where we should be in terms of resource and overall size within the market/league in which we operate. The inevitable, eminently predictable and depressing thread title illustrates, to me at least, the incredibly short term nature we as fans have. We see a bad result or even a season or two as indication of appalling mismanagement. It may be right, but its just the yang to the ying of the odd good season. We'll have good seasons again, and then when we fall away as we inevitably will as other teams get a good crop of youngsters or a cash injection or get lucky with an inspirational manager for a season or two it'll be the same hand-wringing accusations of incompetence.

I don't know how good Fenlon is, really. I personally don't think we've had time to judge, but to me the signs of where we are going are better certainly than under the last 5 incumbents.

Bottom line is we are where we should be. That's not accepting mediocrity, that's just broadly understanding the game, both on the pitch and off it.

Three trophies in 40 years kinda backs that up.

All football fans have a short term outlook as far as I can see TC .... The Forestry commission can take a long term approach to growing trees, thats not a luxury afforded to professional football clubs. Any club which doesnt recognize that is naive in the extreme.

We aint talking about a season or two though ... we are talking about 6 years where we have barely made a dent.

I dont quite understand the "we are where we should be" bit ... are you saying that 3 years without finishing in the top 6 of a league we should be a force in is where we should be?

I dont get the 3 trophies in 40 years either ..... Forgetting Europe that means we have entered 120 competitions and been successful 3 times. In fact, forget the league ... to win the Scottish or League Cups you have to win 5 games in a row, a feat we have managed 3 times in 80 attempts. 3 trophies in 40 years doesnt represent the natural order of things ... it represents underachievement.

Add that to our frankly shameful derby record in that period and its not good reading.

If I thought for one second that this is where we should be I would jack it in. Logic might say it is, the stats might say it is, but as a supporter of Hibernian FC I would say that our place in the grand scheme of Scottish Football just has to be better than that. No matter how silly or unrealistic that makes me.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Everyone seems to think its as simple as

Sack manager
Give new manager more money than other teams have to spend
Finish above them

It is as simple as that, that's what Aberdeen have done this year, although they never sacked Brown right enough.

[hibbydog]

We aren't where we should be.....

In terms of trophies and attendances, We're the 3rd biggest club in Scotland (hearts and sevco do not count). We should expect our league position, cup wins and general quality of play to match that.

It hasn't for years now and we have to ask why.

I like pat and want him to succeed. But signs are that he's not capable of moving us onto the next level. Sadly I don't have enough confidence in Petrie to pick someone who could..

[FranckSuzy]

At the recent AGM, Pat said he would know when he wasn't the man to take Hibs forward and would therefore step aside. I'd like to know when will that be and what actually has to happen before he realises this? :confused:

[blackpoolhibs]

At the recent AGM, Pat said he would know when he wasn't the man to take Hibs forward and would therefore step aside. I'd like to know when will that be and what actually has to happen before he realises this? :confused:

Lets hope its not Wednesday Suzy. :pray:

[FranckSuzy]

Lets hope its not Wednesday Suzy. :pray:

Exactly what I was thinking G :agree:

If you're about early doors, come down to The Persevere :aok: A squad will be there from 4ish :greengrin

[Baldy Foghorn]

All football fans have a short term outlook as far as I can see TC .... The Forestry commission can take a long term approach to growing trees, thats not a luxury afforded to professional football clubs. Any club which doesnt recognize that is naive in the extreme.

We aint talking about a season or two though ... we are talking about 6 years where we have barely made a dent.

I dont quite understand the "we are where we should be" bit ... are you saying that 3 years without finishing in the top 6 of a league we should be a force in is where we should be?

I dont get the 3 trophies in 40 years either ..... Forgetting Europe that means we have entered 120 competitions and been successful 3 times. In fact, forget the league ... to win the Scottish or League Cups you have to win 5 games in a row, a feat we have managed 3 times in 80 attempts. 3 trophies in 40 years doesnt represent the natural order of things ... it represents underachievement.

Add that to our frankly shameful derby record in that period and its not good reading.

If I thought for one second that this is where we should be I would jack it in. Logic might say it is, the stats might say it is, but as a supporter of Hibernian FC I would say that our place in the grand scheme of Scottish Football just has to be better than that. No matter how silly or unrealistic that makes me.

I agree with this....... We should be aiming for the moon and if we fail we hit the stars......But years of under achievement should not just be accepted as the norm, Hibs are a BIG Scottish Club, and as fans, we deserve a whole lot better

[The Modfather]

We currently have the second highest budget in the league, and have had the the 3rd/4th biggest budget the last few years, all to hit the heady heights of the bottom six. It scares me to wonder just where we would finish if we were to align our budget relative to our recent bottom 6 standings.

All this chat about where we stand in the scheme of things, is hoping to punch our weight in relation to budgets really so fanciful, and the road to oblivion.

[blackpoolhibs]

Exactly what I was thinking G :agree:

If you're about early doors, come down to The Persevere :aok: A squad will be there from 4ish :greengrin

:aok:

[Twa Cairpets]

All football fans have a short term outlook as far as I can see TC .... The Forestry commission can take a long term approach to growing trees, thats not a luxury afforded to professional football clubs. Any club which doesnt recognize that is naive in the extreme.

Sadly, I agree. Doesn't mean it is right though. However, the short termism of football fans is extreme, and any business who reacted in the same way in the same timeframe as a fan will fail

We aint talking about a season or two though ... we are talking about 6 years where we have barely made a dent.

The past six years where we have "made barely a dent" has included 2 cup finals and, for 5 of those years, a playing field that has been massively / illegally skewed by the behaviours of Sevco and Lithuanian Laundry FC.

I dont quite understand the "we are where we should be" bit ... are you saying that 3 years without finishing in the top 6 of a league we should be a force in is where we should be?

This isn't me being contentious. Over a longer term period Hibs league average position averages out to approximately where our economic clout is. We're somewhere between 3rd and 5th in the pecking order, jockeying with Hearts and Aberdeen for that honour. In the last few years we've been behind that average, I agree, but it is too small a sample of time to be meaningful. Football will, on average, favour those teams who have better players. Not every game, not every season, but over the piece it will. In Scotland, the marginal additional value Hibs can afford will make us on average better than say Kilmarnock, and that is the case. It;s not so huge a difference in budget though that other factors - good youths being uncovered, inspired management (almost always short term), the impact of imjuries will have a disproportionate affect on teams

I dont get the 3 trophies in 40 years either ..... Forgetting Europe that means we have entered 120 competitions and been successful 3 times. In fact, forget the league ... to win the Scottish or League Cups you have to win 5 games in a row, a feat we have managed 3 times in 80 attempts. 3 trophies in 40 years doesnt represent the natural order of things ... it represents underachievement.

True if its an even playing field. Its not. Luck in cups is huge, and when you come across the Uglies and latterly the grossly inflated players Hearts could "afford", the odds of winning a cup is reduced massively. How often do any teams beat the OF when they were both in the top league. I'm guessing 5-10% tops? Generally, you need to beat one or both of these teams to win the cup, as well as others. Even if you take all other games as a 50/50, I think my maths are right in saying that 4 games + an OF final would therefore equal, in probability terms, a chance of .5 x .5 x .5 x .5 x .1 = .00625, or 6.25%, so not far off

Add that to our frankly shameful derby record in that period and its not good reading.
not going to argue that one.

If I thought for one second that this is where we should be I would jack it in. Logic might say it is, the stats might say it is, but as a supporter of Hibernian FC I would say that our place in the grand scheme of Scottish Football just has to be better than that. No matter how silly or unrealistic that makes me.
[b] fair point, that's why you're a fan. Nowt wrong with living in hope over reality



.

[majorhibs]

We aren't where we should be.....

In terms of trophies and attendances, We're the 3rd biggest club in Scotland (hearts and sevco do not count). We should expect our league position, cup wins and general quality of play to match that.

It hasn't for years now and we have to ask why.

I like pat and want him to succeed. But signs are that he's not capable of moving us onto the next level. Sadly I don't have enough confidence in Petrie to pick someone who could..


We currently have the second highest budget in the league, and have had the the 3rd/4th biggest budget the last few years, all to hit the heady heights of the bottom six. It scares me to wonder just where we would finish if we were to align our budget relative to our recent bottom 6 standings.

All this chat about where we stand in the scheme of things, is hoping to punch our weight in relation to budgets really so fanciful, and the road to oblivion.

[QUOTE=NAE BOVRIL;3782439]All football fans have a short term outlook as far as I can see TC .... The Forestry commission can take a long term approach to growing trees, thats not a luxury afforded to professional football clubs. Any club which doesnt recognize that is naive in the extreme.

We aint talking about a season or two though ... we are talking about 6 years where we have barely made a dent.

I dont quite understand the "we are where we should be" bit ... are you saying that 3 years without finishing in the top 6 of a league we should be a force in is where we should be?

I dont get the 3 trophies in 40 years either ..... Forgetting Europe that means we have entered 120 competitions and been successful 3 times. In fact, forget the league ... to win the Scottish or League Cups you have to win 5 games in a row, a feat we have managed 3 times in 80 attempts. 3 trophies in 40 years doesnt represent the natural order of things ... it represents underachievement.

Add that to our frankly shameful derby record in that period and its not good reading.

If I thought for one second that this is where we should be I would jack it in. Logic might say it is, the stats might say it is, but as a supporter of Hibernian FC I would say that our place in the grand scheme of Scottish Football just has to be better than that. No matter how silly or unrealistic that makes me. I get the impression fae this thread there is two opposin sides here the accountant minded nae change take what's given cos the alternatives oblivion types & the slightly mair impulsive reactionary what's goin on isnae acceptable enoughs enough time for change types, personally my dealings wi accountants running my work gives me the impression that accountants are from a parallel universe where things like thought processes etc are vastly different & incomprehensible to how I view things, so I would have to be with the things should be better than this side, certainly a 2nd loss tae that lot should be unthinkable & far as I'm concerned the last straw. Out o curiosity, Hiberlin, you wouldnae happen to work in accountancy at all, would ye?

[MWHIBBIES]

I don't, although i do want the man sacked, i want his replacement to just manage us using the current finances we have.

I mean there are clubs above us most seasons who manage it on MUCH less than we spend or bring in, why should we have to spend any more than we do now? :confused:I didn't say anything about spending more than we do now but right there you have said that because we do we should automatically be above teams and if not then its the managers fault, football isn't and never will be that simple.

[Hibrandenburg]

[QUOTE=NAE BOVRIL;3782439]All football fans have a short term outlook as far as I can see TC .... The Forestry commission can take a long term approach to growing trees, thats not a luxury afforded to professional football clubs. Any club which doesnt recognize that is naive in the extreme.

We aint talking about a season or two though ... we are talking about 6 years where we have barely made a dent.

I dont quite understand the "we are where we should be" bit ... are you saying that 3 years without finishing in the top 6 of a league we should be a force in is where we should be?

I dont get the 3 trophies in 40 years either ..... Forgetting Europe that means we have entered 120 competitions and been successful 3 times. In fact, forget the league ... to win the Scottish or League Cups you have to win 5 games in a row, a feat we have managed 3 times in 80 attempts. 3 trophies in 40 years doesnt represent the natural order of things ... it represents underachievement.

Add that to our frankly shameful derby record in that period and its not good reading.

If I thought for one second that this is where we should be I would jack it in. Logic might say it is, the stats might say it is, but as a supporter of Hibernian FC I would say that our place in the grand scheme of Scottish Football just has to be better than that. No matter how silly or unrealistic that makes me. I get the impression fae this thread there is two opposin sides here the accountant minded nae change take what's given cos the alternatives oblivion types & the slightly mair impulsive reactionary what's goin on isnae acceptable enoughs enough time for change types, personally my dealings wi accountants running my work gives me the impression that accountants are from a parallel universe where things like thought processes etc are vastly different & incomprehensible to how I view things, so I would have to be with the things should be better than this side, certainly a 2nd loss tae that lot should be unthinkable & far as I'm concerned the last straw. Out o curiosity, Hiberlin, you wouldnae happen to work in accountancy at all, would ye?

Lol, no mate, wish I had been though then I might have saved my bank a fortune on red ink. I've had 3 jobs since leaving school: Army, paramedic and now I make the skies above Europe unsafe. Think my caution might have something to do with my old man having been very involved with the hands off Hibs campaign back in the day. The anguish of a whole community is still very much part of my makeup and part of my Hibs identity. Never again!!!!

[Lucius Apuleius]

Exactly what I was thinking G :agree:

If you're about early doors, come down to The Persevere :aok: A squad will be there from 4ish :greengrin

Tempting, but driving. Wonder if I can talk the child into driving? :-)

[Keith_M]

Lol, no mate, wish I had been though then I might have saved my bank a fortune on red ink. I've had 3 jobs since leaving school: Army, paramedic and now I make the skies above Europe unsafe. Think my caution might have something to do with my old man having been very involved with the hands off Hibs campaign back in the day. The anguish of a whole community is still very much part of my makeup and part of my Hibs identity. Never again!!!!


I wouldn't bother, I write a lot of the Software for Air Traffic Control, the skies are unsafe enough already. If you don't believe me, just ask my wife, she refuses to take a plane anymore.


:wink:

[FranckSuzy]

Tempting, but driving. Wonder if I can talk the child into driving? :-)


:greengrin Be nice to see you Mr T, if said child can be 'bribed'. :agree: :wink:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

At the recent AGM, Pat said he would know when he wasn't the man to take Hibs forward and would therefore step aside. I'd like to know when will that be and what actually has to happen before he realises this? :confused:

A Jambo supporting pal of a pal was talking to Pat at the w-end and was told "whatever happens I'll be seeing out the rest of my contract". Don't shoot the messenger!

"What do Hibs fans actually expect?" was another of the inspirational quotes.

[blackpoolhibs]

I didn't say anything about spending more than we do now but right there you have said that because we do we should automatically be above teams and if not then its the managers fault, football isn't and never will be that simple.

Of course football is not an exact science, but income is a huge part of the game in Scotland. And we consistently under perform compared to other teams on much less than we take in.

If as you say football is not that simple, why if its not down to who the manager is do we have the same number of points as St Johnstone a club who failed to get 3 thousand people through the door on Sunday?

What are they doing differently to us on MUCH less income that we should be doing? :confused:

[FranckSuzy]

A Jambo supporting pal of a pal was talking to Pat at the w-end and was told "whatever happens I'll be seeing out the rest of my contract". Don't shoot the messenger!

"What do Hibs fans actually expect?" was another of the inspirational quotes.

Mind you, he was hardly going to say anything else, especially to a Jambo, was he? :wink: Was the 'inspirational quote' from PF? If so, then :bitchy:

:pray:

[blackpoolhibs]

Mind you, he was hardly going to say anything else, especially to a Jambo, was he? :wink: Was the 'inspirational quote' from PF? If so, then :bitchy:

:pray:

Exactly, he's not going to come out and tell some random he'd resign if they lost on Wednesday.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Mind you, he was hardly going to say anything else, especially to a Jambo, was he? :wink: Was the 'inspirational quote' from PF? If so, then :bitchy:

:pray:

I wouldnae have imagined that the boy would've mentioned he was a Jambo, but, both quotes were from Pat.

[Hibrandenburg]

Of course football is not an exact science, but income is a huge part of the game in Scotland. And we consistently under perform compared to other teams on much less than we take in.

If as you say football is not that simple, why if its not down to who the manager is do we have the same number of points as St Johnstone a club who failed to get 3 thousand people through the door on Sunday?

What are they doing differently to us on MUCH less income that we should be doing? :confused:

Maybe St Johnstone don't consider themselves to be superior to other SPL teams and know they have to work hard to get results? :dunno:

[Hibrandenburg]

I wouldn't bother, I write a lot of the Software for Air Traffic Control, the skies are unsafe enough already. If you don't believe me, just ask my wife, she refuses to take a plane anymore.


:wink:

Now that is.............concerning. :greengrin

[hibees 7062]

Maybe St Johnstone don't consider themselves to be superior to other SPL teams and know they have to work hard to get results? :dunno:

Theirs an idea , why dont we try that ? :greengrin

[hibees 7062]

A Jambo supporting pal of a pal was talking to Pat at the w-end and was told "whatever happens I'll be seeing out the rest of my contract". Don't shoot the messenger!

"What do Hibs fans actually expect?" was another of the inspirational quotes.

He should be papped for that alone :idiot:

[blackpoolhibs]

Maybe St Johnstone don't consider themselves to be superior to other SPL teams and know they have to work hard to get results? :dunno:

I would think they dont, they are nowhere near the stature of Hibernian Football Club, but do match them on the park.

Are they over performing or are we under performing, and do you think we don't work as hard as them? I'd say we work every bit as hard as them, in fact that's probably the one thing you could not accuse our players of.

[Keith_M]

Now that is.............concerning. :greengrin


I know, and I left school at 16 and didn't even touch a computer until I was 33.


:wink:

[The Green Goblin]

I know, and I left school at 16 and didn't even touch a computer until I was 33.


:wink:

Bloomin eck. Terrifying. :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

I know, and I left school at 16 and didn't even touch a computer until I was 33.


:wink:

Still, after 25 years you must be getting the hang of it.

:wink:

[NAE NOOKIE]

I know, and I left school at 16 and didn't even touch a computer until I was 33.


:wink:


I sometimes daydream about following Hibs into Europe. Something I have yet to do.

Ferry & train for me it is then :confused:

[Andy74]

Of course football is not an exact science, but income is a huge part of the game in Scotland. And we consistently under perform compared to other teams on much less than we take in.

If as you say football is not that simple, why if its not down to who the manager is do we have the same number of points as St Johnstone a club who failed to get 3 thousand people through the door on Sunday?

What are they doing differently to us on MUCH less income that we should be doing? :confused:

Interesting insight this morning from McPake. Perhaps the more deep rooted problems we had at the club are being resolved and we are busy trying to get rid of the guy sorting them?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/leigh-griffiths-return-a-halloween-treat-for-hibs-1-3164269

[Golden Bear]

Interesting insight this morning from McPake. Perhaps the more deep rooted problems we had at the club are being resolved and we are busy trying to get rid of the guy sorting them?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/leigh-griffiths-return-a-halloween-treat-for-hibs-1-3164269

It's Derby day so let's have a Fenlon armistice day on Hibs Net. (at least until the final whistle)

:wink:

[pacorosssco]

I know, and I left school at 16 and didn't even touch a computer until I was 33.


:wink:

and now your only 33 and a bit.....

[Saorsa]

It's Derby day so let's have a Fenlon armistice day on Hibs Net. (at least until the final whistle)

:wink:I was about tae reply tae that post then had the same thought, it'll keep :agree:

[3pm]

Interesting insight this morning from McPake. Perhaps the more deep rooted problems we had at the club are being resolved and we are busy trying to get rid of the guy sorting them?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/leigh-griffiths-return-a-halloween-treat-for-hibs-1-3164269

Good to see Fenlon getting credit. But results still aren't good enough.

[steve75]

Interesting insight this morning from McPake. Perhaps the more deep rooted problems we had at the club are being resolved and we are busy trying to get rid of the guy sorting them?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/leigh-griffiths-return-a-halloween-treat-for-hibs-1-3164269

Said it all along that I felt Fenlon had done a lot to change the club from the inside. The team was a mess before he came in, the amount of different players that had played for us over the previous few years was ridiculous. It was an absolute mountain of a job.

Personally I feel he's finally settled the squad, and it seems to be a much happier place.

I disagree with a lot of what he does on the pitch and he is far from perfect. Sadly, he probably won't be the man to kick us on further but I think he's done a great job just getting us to this point.

[jacomo]

Interesting insight this morning from McPake. Perhaps the more deep rooted problems we had at the club are being resolved and we are busy trying to get rid of the guy sorting them?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/leigh-griffiths-return-a-halloween-treat-for-hibs-1-3164269

Don't doubt that PF has had a huge job on his hands.

It's quite shocking to hear revelations about how bad things got at the club. How did it get to this? Clearly the experiment of having a "football department" with Scott Lindsay in charge was a disaster, as was Calderwood. But who's to blame?

Interesting comments from McPake about LG too. What does all this mean?


"Every Hibs fan in the world wishes he could play tomorrow night. If we could sort out some kind of two-day loan, it would be perfect. It was sad to see him go but I wanted him to get away, get out of Edinburgh. As much as losing him as a player affected us as a team, for his career, he had to get back down south. It’s probably similar to the case of Robert Snodgrass, who I saw in exactly the same way. Robert had to get out of Glasgow – but look at him now.

“In my opinion, Leigh will go as far. He will get to the Premier League one day. But the biggest thing was getting out of Edinburgh.”

[FranckSuzy]

Don't doubt that PF has had a huge job on his hands.

It's quite shocking to hear revelations about how bad things got at the club. How did it get to this? Clearly the experiment of having a "football department" with Scott Lindsay in charge was a disaster, as was Calderwood. But who's to blame?

Interesting comments from McPake about LG too. What does all this mean?

Apologies if this is a 'woosh' moment but I would have thought he meant the endless stories about Sparky's private life, claims he a) assaults young children, b) shoplifts in large supermarkets, c) fights with his partner while shopping in a department store and d) is derided in the press when he reacts angrily when his children are taunted/ridiculed. Oh, and not forgetting the personal abuse he was subjected to and then when he was roundly castigated for 'flipping' on Twitter. Other than that, I can't think what it means :wink:

[jacomo]

Apologies if this is a 'woosh' moment but I would have thought he meant the endless stories about Sparky's private life, claims he a) assaults young children, b) shoplifts in large supermarkets, c) fights with his partner while shopping in a department store and d) is derided in the press when he reacts angrily when his children are taunted/ridiculed. Oh, and not forgetting the personal abuse he was subjected to and then when he was roundly castigated for 'flipping' on Twitter. Other than that, I can't think what it means :wink:

No, it's probably me having the 'whoosh' moment.

Not living in Scotland I find it easy to avoid the tabloid 'reporting' of our more high-profile players, and was never sure if these incidents were all a load of nonsense to sell papers or had a more serious effect on LG. McPake seems to suggest there was a toxic atmosphere for him in Scotland and he needs to be away from that scene.

[FranckSuzy]

No, it's probably me having the 'whoosh' moment.

Not living in Scotland I find it easy to avoid the tabloid 'reporting' of our more high-profile players, and was never sure if these incidents were all a load of nonsense to sell papers or had a more serious effect on LG. McPake seems to suggest there was a toxic atmosphere for him in Scotland and he needs to be away from that scene.

:aok:

[Andy74]

Said it all along that I felt Fenlon had done a lot to change the club from the inside. The team was a mess before he came in, the amount of different players that had played for us over the previous few years was ridiculous. It was an absolute mountain of a job.

Personally I feel he's finally settled the squad, and it seems to be a much happier place.

I disagree with a lot of what he does on the pitch and he is far from perfect. Sadly, he probably won't be the man to kick us on further but I think he's done a great job just getting us to this point.

I guess the question is though, do we sack a guy for not sorting, yet, the remaining missing pieces from the team when actually the overall picture of what he has been doing is impressive.

For the sake of being a bit more open and attacking do you put at risk all the other stuff that is getting to be right about the club? And would this piece be addressed by Fenlon anyway once Harris and Cairney are back fit and if he delivers on the pace issue that he has again said he would lilke to resolve in January if he can.

Anyhow, maybe not a debtate for tiday but found it interesting in terms of the club dying or not. It seems not really and more a matter of how the team itself is setting out.

[Hibrandenburg]

Said it all along that I felt Fenlon had done a lot to change the club from the inside. The team was a mess before he came in, the amount of different players that had played for us over the previous few years was ridiculous. It was an absolute mountain of a job.

Personally I feel he's finally settled the squad, and it seems to be a much happier place.

I disagree with a lot of what he does on the pitch and he is far from perfect. Sadly, he probably won't be the man to kick us on further but I think he's done a great job just getting us to this point.

Think what you mention in the first part of your post is spot on and that some folks on here have underestimated what a momentous task that has been.

[The Modfather]

Think what you mention in the first part of your post is spot on and that some folks on here have underestimated what a momentous task that has been.

IMO, the danger is that as we're talking about things that aren't always quantifiable (which isn't the same as me saying Fenlon isn't making much needed progress behind the scenes) there's a danger it can become a convinient excuse for what is happening on the park.

The reality is probably somewhere in the middle between the task he faced in overhauling the club, and what is a realistic timeframe for judging how we are performing in relation to our budget.

[joe breezy]

Tonight is Fenlon's last chance for me, Results based business and all that...

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Tonight is Fenlon's last chance for me, Results based business and all that...

As long as the off field stuff is being attended to it would appear that the main reason the club exists can wait, that arguement can wait a few days though! ;-)

[Keith_M]

Still, after 25 years you must be getting the hang of it.

:wink:


Oi you, that's plenty!!!




:na na:

[Ozyhibby]

If we don't win tonight then Fenlon should not last 24 hours. It's as simple as that. Our league position is shocking considering he is two years into the job with the resources at his disposal. A failure against them would make his position untenable. Let's hope tonight's the night he turns it round. I still think 2nd is achievable this season.

[SteveHFC]

If we don't win tonight then Fenlon should not last 24 hours. It's as simple as that. Our league position is shocking considering he is two years into the job with the resources at his disposal. A failure against them would make his position untenable.

:agree:

[Keith_M]

If we don't win tonight then Fenlon should not last 24 hours. It's as simple as that. Our league position is shocking considering he is two years into the job with the resources at his disposal. A failure against them would make his position untenable. Let's hope tonight's the night he turns it round. I still think 2nd is achievable this season.


Everybody said that before the last derby and nothing happened.

Barring some totally catastrophic run of games, Fenlon is here until the end of the season.

[Ozyhibby]

Everybody said that before the last derby and nothing happened.

Barring some totally catastrophic run of games, Fenlon is here until the end of the season.

Defeat tonight will result in even more staying away till he's gone. Petrie won't put up with that for long.

[Hibrandenburg]

Everybody said that before the last derby and nothing happened.

Barring some totally catastrophic run of games, Fenlon is here until the end of the season.

:agree: When there's no obvious improvement at the end of this season there should be a new man already in place for when the players start trotting in for pre season training.

[Beefster]

I guess the question is though, do we sack a guy for not sorting, yet, the remaining missing pieces from the team when actually the overall picture of what he has been doing is impressive.

For the sake of being a bit more open and attacking do you put at risk all the other stuff that is getting to be right about the club? And would this piece be addressed by Fenlon anyway once Harris and Cairney are back fit and if he delivers on the pace issue that he has again said he would lilke to resolve in January if he can.

Anyhow, maybe not a debtate for tiday but found it interesting in terms of the club dying or not. It seems not really and more a matter of how the team itself is setting out.

Putting it bluntly, I don't shell out for a ST and then the associated costs of actually going to the game to feel warm and fuzzy about how Fenlon has sorted out the attitudes or repainted the away dressing room. I pay to watch my team, hopefully see them win and as a bonus, maybe even get entertained.

No offence either but you've been claiming for a while that it will get better after Zoubir plays/Harris gets back/the next window/etc etc etc.

[Andy74]

Putting it bluntly, I don't shell out for a ST and then the associated costs of actually going to the game to feel warm and fuzzy about how Fenlon has sorted out the attitudes or repainted the away dressing room. I pay to watch my team, hopefully see them win and as a bonus, maybe even get entertained.

No offence either but you've been claiming for a while that it will get better after Zoubir plays/Harris gets back/the next window/etc etc etc.

Yeah but as McPake pointed out, you won't start to get results or success until you sort that stuff out and let it come to fruition. Coaching and scouting will take some time to show improvements through to the team.

You are right about me saying for a bit that it should get better. It did after the bad start, with some bad results along the way too. Teams like Inverness are getting those too and they are probabaly more developed as a team and unit than we are just now. Our injuries sem to keep hitting us as well.

If our position doesn't improve this year then yes, there has to be doubts about how far we've actually come where it counts in the short term.

In fact, if we lose tonight then right or wrong its going to be very difficult for him to get any support.

[Ozyhibby]

Yeah but as McPake pointed out, you won't start to get results or success until you sort that stuff out and let it come to fruition. Coaching and scouting will take some time to show improvements through to the team.

You are right about me saying for a bit that it should get better. It did after the bad start, with some bad results along the way too. Teams like Inverness are getting those too and they are probabaly more developed as a team and unit than we are just now. Our injuries sem to keep hitting us as well.

If our position doesn't improve this year then yes, there has to be doubts about how far we've actually come where it counts in the short term.

In fact, if we lose tonight then right or wrong its going to be very difficult for him to get any support.

Derek McInnes seems to have done more in two months than Pat in two years.

[Hibrandenburg]

Derek McInnes seems to have done more in two months than Pat in two years.

That's like comparing apples with pears.

McInnes has had the luxury of inheriting a workable structure and been able to improve it with a little cosmetic work, Fenlon has had to rebuild the foundations due to dry rot.

[IWasThere2016]

Well if PF is in the dugout on Saturday, you have your answer BlackpoolHibs!

PS - When's the AGM?

[Aldo]

Well if PF is in the dugout on Saturday, you have your answer BlackpoolHibs! PS - When's the AGM?

Yeah but G he probably will be. We need a change and now. They are woeful. One shot one goal.

**** sake we are ****ing so ***** it's so fuvking unbelievable

[Hibrandenburg]

Bottled it big style. ****ing gutless.

[Nailrod]

Said it all along that I felt Fenlon had done a lot to change the club from the inside. The team was a mess before he came in, the amount of different players that had played for us over the previous few years was ridiculous...Are you including the two and a half teams worth off players that have transited ER in the two years that Fenlon's been in charge?

Anyway, at the end of the day Fenlon's an irrelevance. Nothing will change as long as Jabba the Hutt continues to squat in ER surrounded by his team of yessholes (half yes-man, half *sshole).

[Nailrod]

McInnes has had the luxury of inheriting a workable structure and been able to improve it with a little cosmetic work, Fenlon has had to rebuild the foundations due to dry rot.And who's to blame for that? Who's been in charge of the building for twenty friggin years? Who chose all Fenlon's predecessors? Who insisted that we hang on to his immediate predecessor after he had put together the worst set of post-split results ever achieved by a bottom six team? Even after somebody had tried to give us money to take him off us?

Like I say, Fenlon's the latest in a series of irrelevancies.

[Judas Iscariot]

Point beautifully illustrated tonight BH

**** off Petrie & take that useless **** Fenlol with you

[Speedway]

Is Rod a yam?

[GreenCastle]

Fenlon must go - either sacked or resign - the damage has been seriously done.

The board are seriously accountable again for another failure.

I don't want us waiting till end of the season - get a new manager in now and make changes to make it work.

Some fans need to wake up and see the harm being done to our fan base - he is sucking the life out of it and people are being lost for good.

[rcarter1]

Ive bought a season ticket with cup top up, but frankly Im not going back until the manager is replaced, and hopefully the board. Lots of decent players out there folding after 35 minutes - thats a lack of team spirit and direction = taxi for manager.

[GreenCastle]

Ive bought a season ticket with cup top up, but frankly Im not going back until the manager is replaced, and hopefully the board. Lots of decent players out there folding after 35 minutes - thats a lack of team spirit and direction = taxi for manager.

If I could get a refund I would be straight to ER tomorrow - not a knee jerk reaction - far from it after the last few years of nonsense - there is only so much one can take.

[Saorsa]

Interesting insight this morning from McPake. Perhaps the more deep rooted problems we had at the club are being resolved and we are busy trying to get rid of the guy sorting them?

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/leigh-griffiths-return-a-halloween-treat-for-hibs-1-3164269Do you want an answer now about the man whos doing such a great job? I watched Hibs when Bertie Auld was the manager and Ive' never seen ***** like this. Lets have one of you're patronising posts now.

You made a patronising post about losers the other day, this you're ****in' idea of winners
is it?

[Phil D. Rolls]

Just to follow up on my moaning on Sunday. I went to the game last night. Great crowd, we should have won.

I can see why people are frustrated, and I did pick up on the apathy amongst regulars. Don't blame anyone for that.

We have a team, it just doesnt seem to know what it's doing. IMO, they are far better footballers than Hearts. They should have been able to break them down.

I can also see the lack of a plan B, that so many talk about. I think what was missing last night though was someone to lead the line.

All that said it was great to be back at Easter Road, I'll be back soon. But our performances are a real mystery.

[blackpoolhibs]

Just to follow up on my moaning on Sunday. I went to the game last night. Great crowd, we should have won.

I can see why people are frustrated, and I did pick up on the apathy amongst regulars. Don't blame anyone for that.

We have a team, it just doesnt seem to know what it's doing. IMO, they are far better footballers than Hearts. They should have been able to break them down.

I can also see the lack of a plan B, that so many talk about. I think what was missing last night though was someone to lead the line.

All that said it was great to be back at Easter Road, I'll be back soon. But our performances are a real mystery.

There's no mystery FR, slow and ponderous with no cutting edge, but yet again i come to the conclusion the St Mirren game is probably the highlight of Fenlons career.

He should resign today, and Petrie needs to follow him right out the door.

This football team is a ****in shambles.

[Phil D. Rolls]

There's no mystery FR, slow and ponderous with no cutting edge, but yet again i come to the conclusion the St Mirren game is probably the highlight of Fenlons career.

He should resign today, and Petrie needs to follow him right out the door.

This football team is a ****in shambles.

Cutting edge is it in a nutshell. I was dismayed at the number of times forwards were trying 1-2s in the box instead of just getting the ball on target. I think the low point of the night was the corner that two passes later ended up back with Williams. I can see the comparisons to Miller.

[greenpaper55]

There's no mystery FR, slow and ponderous with no cutting edge, but yet again i come to the conclusion the St Mirren game is probably the highlight of Fenlons career.

He should resign today, and Petrie needs to follow him right out the door.

This football team is a ****in shambles.

The trouble is that mob have the ST money so they don't have to do anything, i think they will try to ride out the storm and hope a few victories take the pressure off them for the umpteenth time. It's two years since i had a ST and i do the occasional walk up but you can bet your boots there will be plenty more doing the same next season if this continues, i heard the commentator mention last night that we have won 4 times at ER this year !. This must be some sort of club record and still they hang on to PF !.

[NOLA]

Fenlon must go - either sacked or resign - the damage has been seriously done.

The board are seriously accountable again for another failure.

I don't want us waiting till end of the season - get a new manager in now and make changes to make it work.

Some fans need to wake up and see the harm being done to our fan base - he is sucking the life out of it and people are being lost for good.
:agree: i now know more hibbies who dont go to the games than do, and its getting worse, shifting season tickets for next year will be like mission impossible if hes still in charge come the seasons end.

[blackpoolhibs]

The trouble is that mob have the ST money so they don't have to do anything, i think they will try to ride out the storm and hope a few victories take the pressure off them for the umpteenth time. It's two years since i had a ST and i do the occasional walk up but you can bet your boots there will be plenty more doing the same next season if this continues, i heard the commentator mention last night that we have won 4 times at ER this year !. This must be some sort of club record and still they hang on to PF !.

They dont have mine, i didn't renew. I'm certainly not getting one next season and i'd hazard a guess season ticket sales next season will drop drastically.

[TowerHibs]

PF said on tuesday: "all that matters is winning"

to come out after getting beat and talk about the first 20 mins performance is a guy clutching at straws. what happened to ALL that matter was winng

[Hibrandenburg]

Cutting edge is it in a nutshell. I was dismayed at the number of times forwards were trying 1-2s in the box instead of just getting the ball on target. I think the low point of the night was the corner that two passes later ended up back with Williams. I can see the comparisons to Miller.

Was my thinking exactly. I was hoping that our midfield would be having a dig from outside the box and that Vine and Collins would feed off the ensuing loose balls but instead they were pussyfooting about like the ball was a hot potato. Think Katie was the only one to have a dig from distance and that was a poor effort. Not seen enough of Heff so can't comment on whether he can add something or not, hope so otherwise we're ****ed.

[--------]

Of course football is not an exact science, but income is a huge part of the game in Scotland. And we consistently under perform compared to other teams on much less than we take in.

If as you say football is not that simple, why if its not down to who the manager is do we have the same number of points as St Johnstone a club who failed to get 3 thousand people through the door on Sunday?

What are they doing differently to us on MUCH less income that we should be doing? :confused:


Are you including the two and a half teams worth off players that have transited ER in the two years that Fenlon's been in charge?

Anyway, at the end of the day Fenlon's an irrelevance. Nothing will change as long as Jabba the Hutt continues to squat in ER surrounded by his team of yessholes (half yes-man, half *sshole).


Fenlon's an irrelevance indeed, as were all the other sorry souls who tried to turn the team around under Petrie.

The decline of the team has been going on since Mowbray left, and the one constant factor in that time has been the ownership and direction of the club under Farmer and Petrie.

The buck stops at the TOP of the pyramid - not halfway up. Petrie's the man who's destroying Hibs, with the tacit approval apparently of Sir Tom Farmer.

Sack Pat Fenlon, and he'll be replaced by someone else selected and appointed by the same people who selected and appointed him, who'll have to work within the same corporate structures and under the same restrictions as he does. A new manager would simply be just another turn on the same weary spiral of decline.

It's not Pat Fenlon who should be getting a hard tome from the fans - it's Petrie and his Godfather.

Not a penny of my money do either of them get, and I won't be back until Petrie's gone and Farmer either wises up or moves on.
Hibs' result will still be the first one I look for, but I'll watch them on TV when I can be bothered. Petrie's managed to scunner me entirely.

[RIP Bestie]

Just sack this man, and bring in someone who knows what he's doing. You are supposed to be in charge, but are failing to do your job.

FFS even andy is coming roun and thinks its nearly time for us to part ways, if you are watching the games Rod, then surely to god you can see with your own eyes just how bad the style of football this man has managed to produce after nearly 2 years.

Rod put him and the rest of us out of our misery, and give us our team back.
Fenlon has gone now. Who would you like to see get the job Blackpool?

[Green Blood]

Never trust an Irishman that makes love with his socks on! Pats view on risk taking was to take them off!

Ask him about the four leaf clover and Glasgow, the wrong appointment for Hibs but I wish him well

Rod