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Billy McKirdy
27-10-2013, 01:02 AM
I expect pelters for this bearing in mind the inconsistent nature of Fenlon's tenure and subsequent results.
But it seems to me that Pat Fenlon will never do for many posters on here no matter how the team performs.
He has an impossible task winning over his critics and even though he's got us on a relatively decent run at the moment. As soon as a crap result like today's happen, the knives are ready to be plunged deeply.
What does he have to do to satisfy the most fervent critics?

JMac
27-10-2013, 01:31 AM
A lot of hibs fans do really like him as a person, however a lot of them are just getting fed up with the terrible brand of football he has us playing. The only game I've actually enjoyed due to footballing reasons is the St Mirren game. With the squad we've got, we could be playing amazing football, tearing apart a lot of teams however we never go out to win games. I don't think we should sack him, (We're still top 6 after all) However don't offer him a new contract at the end of the season. He's had plenty of chances to get us playing well and he hasn't succeeded. Yes the results are decent on the whole but with a young up and coming manager with bright new ideas, I think we could easily be the 2nd best team in Scotland.

Davy Mac
27-10-2013, 03:09 AM
A lot of hibs fans do really like him as a person, however a lot of them are just getting fed up with the terrible brand of football he has us playing. The only game I've actually enjoyed due to footballing reasons is the St Mirren game. With the squad we've got, we could be playing amazing football, tearing apart a lot of teams however we never go out to win games. I don't think we should sack him, (We're still top 6 after all) However don't offer him a new contract at the end of the season. He's had plenty of chances to get us playing well and he hasn't succeeded. Yes the results are decent on the whole but with a young up and coming manager with bright new ideas, I think we could easily be the 2nd best team in Scotland.

Don't think we as a club think like a 2nd best team in Scotland, no swagger, we're timid and seem frightened to evolve, although we would win hands down at building a club's infrastructure, just take a look at ER & EM and you can see why we think we would look like a 2nd team in Scotland but I don't think we genuinely believe it or we would probably sell the players either in the aftermath or in the process of doing something special.

Sad but true in my opinion

cocopops1875
27-10-2013, 03:31 AM
A lot of hibs fans do really like him as a person, however a lot of them are just getting fed up with the terrible brand of football he has us playing. The only game I've actually enjoyed due to footballing reasons is the St Mirren game. With the squad we've got, we could be playing amazing football, tearing apart a lot of teams however we never go out to win games. I don't think we should sack him, (We're still top 6 after all) However don't offer him a new contract at the end of the season. He's had plenty of chances to get us playing well and he hasn't succeeded. Yes the results are decent on the whole but with a young up and coming manager with bright new ideas, I think we could easily be the 2nd best team in Scotland.
Is/was Fenlon not a "young up and coming manager" ?

Fergus52
27-10-2013, 06:12 AM
A lot of hibs fans do really like him as a person, however a lot of them are just getting fed up with the terrible brand of football he has us playing. The only game I've actually enjoyed due to footballing reasons is the St Mirren game. With the squad we've got, we could be playing amazing football, tearing apart a lot of teams however we never go out to win games. I don't think we should sack him, (We're still top 6 after all) However don't offer him a new contract at the end of the season. He's had plenty of chances to get us playing well and he hasn't succeeded. Yes the results are decent on the whole but with a young up and coming manager with bright new ideas, I think we could easily be the 2nd best team in Scotland.

Sums it up pretty well

PeterboroHibee
27-10-2013, 06:23 AM
I think Fenlon seems like a decent bloke, but I dont think I will ever like him as a manager (unless he changes his approach to the game). Whenever I watch us, there doesnt seem to be any game plan, to the point the players dont look like they even know what they are doing. I think we have a reasonably good group of players, but the football is absolutely turgid, its really not how football should be played in my eyes. This season we have done well to accumulate the number of points we have so far, but when you look at some of the performances we have been unbelievably lucky, with the opposition wasting numerous chances and missing sitters. I also think he is very lucky to still be in a job after some of the horrendous performances/results he has been manager for.

SouthamptonHibs
27-10-2013, 06:26 AM
P aa t I'd like a second duck, unwanted and useless must win'on Wed or he must walk ****ing terrible manager

NORTHERNHIBBY
27-10-2013, 08:11 AM
The old adage about doing your talking on the pitch has to apply here. Keeping a manager in place because you like him is amateurish. I know it is tenuous sometime to make comparisons with your own life but I really don't like my boss. In fact not a lot of people do but to be fair, he knows that and says his remit is not to be liked but to deliver results based on his ideas and methods.

Pretty Boy
27-10-2013, 08:19 AM
Pat may be the nicest man in the world, he's certainly seemed ok the few times i've met him, but his team are killing my enthusiasm for Hibs.

There's an argument for being harder to beat but there has to be a balance. I think i can honestly say i have enjoyed about 1 and a half games this season. I spent most of the 2nd half yesterday playing chess on my phone before nipping to the pub as the 2nd goal went in. Under Pat Hibs are dull as ditchwater.

Brightside
27-10-2013, 08:22 AM
Pat may be the nicest man in the world, he's certainly seemed ok the few times i've met him, but his team are killing my enthusiasm for Hibs.

There's an argument for being harder to beat but there has to be a balance. I think i can honestly say i have enjoyed about 1 and a half games this season. I spent most of the 2nd half yesterday playing chess on my phone before nipping to the pub as the 2nd goal went in. Under Pat Hibs are dull as ditchwater.

The football is rubbish and not getting better. If there was a glimmer of him trying to play some attacking football it would be different. I want him to resign today before he manages to get us beat by Hearts again! (Obv this wont happen and we have him for the rest of the year)

J-C
27-10-2013, 08:29 AM
No one hates him just the football he's giving us, killing our club slowly with his eye bleeding guff football.

Viva_Palmeiras
27-10-2013, 08:35 AM
Here's a question. Yogi or Fenlon?

Yogi got us 4th and got the bullet and if Rod is to be believed left us with this unworkable legacy which Calderclown merely compounded. But Yogi in terms of targets succeeded. But things were in decline and youth was not being developed it seems.

Folks wanted includes :
root and branch change
- Fenlon changed coaching staff and scouting netowkr
rid of deadwood
- Pat shipped out the deadweight sand brought in better players
a change in attitude
- Waters muddied with change in personnel this season but I think there's been some positive changes. Consistency the real problem. To go unbeaten against them for a season should be recognised after those horrible defeats.
introduction of youth
- I'd argue that Pat has done that more than other recent managers perhaps protecting too much but still giving opportunities.
an attractive brand of fast flowing-entertaining fooball
- Fail. Pat just doesn't seem to get across his ideas (I'm guessing) to the players or he's looking to build confidence from a platform built on staunch defense then transitions to more expansive stuff - maybe the players don't have the confidence for that at home - bizarre. Whatever the issue it's his job to resolve it.

Has the other areas of improvement taken it's toll on Pat he took on a huge job and done better in some areas than others. I still think that it'll be a case of others reaping the benefits of his efforts...

Booked4Being-Ugly
27-10-2013, 09:01 AM
Fenlon will never take us beyond mediocrity and we will be lucky to make the top six this year.

I think I'm the only one on the forum though that doesn't share the opinion that Fenlon has built a decent squad.

Winston Ingram
27-10-2013, 09:15 AM
I expect pelters for this bearing in mind the inconsistent nature of Fenlon's tenure and subsequent results.
But it seems to me that Pat Fenlon will never do for many posters on here no matter how the team performs.
He has an impossible task winning over his critics and even though he's got us on a relatively decent run at the moment. As soon as a crap result like today's happen, the knives are ready to be plunged deeply.
What does he have to do to satisfy the most fervent critics?


I don't know why it seems like this. I've watched his dross for 2 years and up until this season never wanted rid. I do now because I feel after 2 years, signing nearly 30 players, continual pish performances and bad tactical decisions I've come to the conclusion that he is not capable.

The 'hate-in' as you call is extremely well reasoned if you ask me.

If we started playing well then maybe but after 2 years of pish, I've not seen anything whatsoever to suggest that will change.

Jack
27-10-2013, 09:20 AM
One shot on goal in the first half.

45% possession.

From reading that you might think it was a team playing Real Madrid in Madrid.

We were playing Aberdeen at Easter Road and it seems pretty typical of matches of late.

Pat had a mountain to climb in all manner of things when joined the club and has apparently done wonders in many of these things.

However he has to be judged on 90 minutes of football each weekend (and midweek :-) and that is miserable. Many say it doesn't matter the result if we play well. Well what we have now is folk, rightfully greetin in their beer even when we win!

marinello59
27-10-2013, 09:24 AM
What does he have to do to satisfy the most fervent critics?

Resign.

Saorsa
27-10-2013, 09:24 AM
He just needs tae go before he drives everybody else away. Nice guy but this just winnae do, it's beyond ****in' awful.

Bobby's Cinema
27-10-2013, 09:29 AM
Lets be clear, Pat will hail top six as an achievement. I say again, TWO HOME WINS in 2013. So have we been getting the results? Aligned to this, the argument of "you were moaning we weren't getting the results, and you're still moaning now we're we're winning" doesn't stand up when the football is as god awful as this

Heisenberg
27-10-2013, 09:30 AM
Fenlon has had so much time to get it right but we're still lacking in key areas which he had the entire summer to fix. I've lost all patience with him tbh.

hibsitis
27-10-2013, 09:38 AM
We are 6th having failed to beat any of the teams above us in the league, four of which almost certainly have substantially smaller budgets than us. We're 2 ahead of the Jags, who have a game in hand. They also should have beaten us recently given the appalling quality of football we played that night.

A lot of comment supporting Fenlon has asked for time for his team to 'gel' as has he. McInnes has had less than half the time Fenlon has and has achieved a lot more. Yesterday we had 45% of possession and no shots on target - and we were playing at home. A good manager outperforms his budget and PF has done the opposite.

My son and I haven't been back since the Malmo game and have seen nothing to tempt me back. Any decent result is just papering over the cracks so evident yesterday. I asked my son yesterday if he was missing Easter Road and he replied, "not really".

The board have not bitten the bullet on Fenlon because their credibility is at stake. Sad but true. Fenlon's approach is designed to limit damage and enable him to point (maybe) to a top six finish and an, on paper, improvement during his tenure, including two (awful) cup finals. The results will be airbrushed when he applies for his next job and both his and the board's contributions will be suitably spun as having steadied the ship and achieved improvement as we wave him goodbye at the end of this season.

matty_f
27-10-2013, 09:42 AM
I think a lot of folk are like me in that they desperately want to see Fenlon succeed. I've tried as best as I could to look for positives in what has been a good recent run of results but there is no hiding from the fact that over probably the last 3-4 years there's been only about ten games (if that) where I've really enjoyed the game.
Sitting through games where we muster 3 chances in 90 minutes is not my idea of fun, paying 400-odd quid to do it even less so.

Cropley10
27-10-2013, 09:57 AM
I think a lot of folk are like me in that they desperately want to see Fenlon succeed. I've tried as best as I could to look for positives in what has been a good recent run of results but there is no hiding from the fact that over probably the last 3-4 years there's been only about ten games (if that) where I've really enjoyed the game.
Sitting through games where we muster 3 chances in 90 minutes is not my idea of fun, paying 400-odd quid to do it even less so.

Compare with Derek McInnes, in the job for about 15 mins and Aberdeen just ping it about, mostly on the deck, keep it patient, scored two good goals and never looked under threat.

Meanwhile our football seems to be play it about a bit, give it back to the Centre Backs, who lump it into the Channels, or hope Heff can get a flick on and they make a mistake.

Eye. Bleeding. Stuff.

jeffers
27-10-2013, 10:09 AM
Fenlon will never take us beyond mediocrity and we will be lucky to make the top six this year.

I think I'm the only one on the forum though that doesn't share the opinion that Fenlon has built a decent squad.
You're not. I completely agree. We have a decent keeper and between all the options a couple of decent central defenders. We have some good midfielders and one decent striker. Then consider we have a second choice left back playing right back, a central defender playing left back, almost zero pace in the squad and very little creativity. He has definitely signed some good players, but a good squad ? Not for me. But in saying all that I think a decent manager could have the squad playing a lot better than Fenlon has.

Bobo
27-10-2013, 10:09 AM
I expect pelters for this bearing in mind the inconsistent nature of Fenlon's tenure and subsequent results.
But it seems to me that Pat Fenlon will never do for many posters on here no matter how the team performs.
He has an impossible task winning over his critics and even though he's got us on a relatively decent run at the moment. As soon as a crap result like today's happen, the knives are ready to be plunged deeply.
What does he have to do to satisfy the most fervent critics?

He doesn't do himself any favours by persistently playing players out of position and conceding majority of possession in home games to average teams like Motherwell and Aberdeen!

He gives no belief or conviction to his squad by stifling the way they can express themselves and play in games, he has his team starting games with the frame of mind that they're already a goal behind!

He's the most negative manager I've seen at Easter Road and he has grossly underachieved in building an exciting, winning team to capture the imagination of the Hibs support.

The end of the season can't come soon enough for me as it's pretty clear we'll just make up the numbers again in another bland, wasted season for the club, and it's supporters, who have been deprived of entertainment for so long. By that time Fenlon will hopefully be gone and we'll have another manager who can hopefully break our 7 years of football purgatory, stop us treading water and make Easter Road an enjoyable place to watch football again?

johnrebus
27-10-2013, 10:09 AM
Have not seen Hibs since 19th May 2012, and doubt if I ever will again.

Forty five years I think is enough for anyone to be - mostly - pissed all over, for an emotional attachment.


Pat Fenlon has presided over the worst results in our history and yet remains in the job.

We have an owner who does not give a **** and I won't ever bother to comment on Petrie.


But the worst thing of all is our lack of identity.

There is nothing to distinguish us anymore from other Scottish clubs.

We were famous for playing in a certain way, but now even that has gone.


I have nothing but admiration for the 10,000 or so who keep turning up to watch this *****, but my spirit is broken and I freely admit it.

chinaman
27-10-2013, 10:15 AM
The old adage about doing your talking on the pitch has to apply here. Keeping a manager in place because you like him is amateurish. I know it is tenuous sometime to make comparisons with your own life but I really don't like my boss. In fact not a lot of people do but to be fair, he knows that and says his remit is not to be liked but to deliver results based on his ideas and methods.great post sums it up for me.nice man totally inept
Manager at my team so time for him to bolt. If we lose to that pish midweek he'll surely be ushered out the building.

JimBHibees
27-10-2013, 10:25 AM
Fenlon will never take us beyond mediocrity and we will be lucky to make the top six this year.

I think I'm the only one on the forum though that doesn't share the opinion that Fenlon has built a decent squad.

I agree with that I think it is completely unbalanced and lacks pace and energy. Defensively poor also.

blackpoolhibs
27-10-2013, 10:33 AM
I don't hate him, but i do hate his style of football.

Hibbyradge
27-10-2013, 10:41 AM
Right up till 1.30pm yesterday, I was going to the game.

Then the memory of our performances against everyone bar St Mirren kicked in and I decided to stay away. I just knew it would be woeful.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I don't wake up in the night, screaming, after dreaming about the Partick Thistle game.

I fully expect us to play badly and lose on Wednesday, so I'm out, and I won't be back until our style of play improves drastically.

fishybeaver
27-10-2013, 10:49 AM
Right up till 1.30pm yesterday, I was going to the game.

Then the memory of our performances against everyone bar St Mirren kicked in and I decided to stay away. I just knew it would be woeful.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I don't wake up in the night, screaming, after dreaming about the Partick Thistle game.

I fully expect us to play badly and lose on Wednesday, so I'm out, and I won't be back until our style of play improves drastically.

Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

blackpoolhibs
27-10-2013, 10:53 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.


:faf::faf::faf:

Craig_in_Prague
27-10-2013, 10:53 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

Lol

Ok Pat.

Saorsa
27-10-2013, 10:58 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.He probably will along with mair and mair every week, still if you're haapy with what you're watching.....

Golden Bear
27-10-2013, 10:59 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

Super, absolutely super.

For that, we all should be eternally grateful.

Leithenhibby
27-10-2013, 11:00 AM
I know many of you realise that Calderwood set us back YEARS & YEARS.

It was always going to take time, and yes, PF has had lots of it. But when you have a player that comes on (James Collins), picks up the ball after Langfield slips, decides to shoot from almost an impossible angle when Liam Craig is standing with the goal at his mercy, you got to think, when did "i" appear in TEAM... :rolleyes:

Aberdeen were the better side, but when you get a chance like that you need to "Think", JC didn't.. Nothing that PF can do with that.........

PF will be here until the end of the season, so buckle down and hold on!....

cabbageandribs1875
27-10-2013, 11:04 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.



sorry but my definition of a sucker-punch is when a team have been on the back-foot for most of a game then manage to score a goal from a 'breakaway' ..........that was NO sucker-punch win for Aberdeen yesterday, but if collins had scored near the end then that would indeed have been rightly called a 'sucker-punch' :agree: or maybe even a 'smash and grab' :)

Brightside
27-10-2013, 11:04 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

people keep saying a "decent run" "9 games unbeaten". Make no mistake we've been rubbish, but luckily there are other rubbish teams in scotland. He has no idea how to go out and win a game of football. I wouldnt let him coach my 8yo. Its not football.

Eyrie
27-10-2013, 11:09 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

A "sucker punch" was what we did to Partick Thistle and Septic. Aberdeen got what they deserved yesterday, and sadly so did we.

As regards the thread title, there may be a few idiots who hate Fenlon but most of us are willing to part company because of our frustration and disappointment at the way he has the team underperforming.

Hibercelona
27-10-2013, 11:18 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

Good one Andy! :tee hee: :wink:

Aldo
27-10-2013, 11:18 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

So let me get this right any fan who moans should stay away??? Ha ha

So your always supportive of team regardless of how we play, win, lose or draw you never moan or have a bad word to say about the team or shout in frustration.

Well if this is the case you will be the only fan/supporter I have known since I started watching Hibs in the 70's that has never had a bad word to say about any Hibs team.

Aye right.

Sorry but we are woeful.

Brizo
27-10-2013, 11:21 AM
I expect pelters for this bearing in mind the inconsistent nature of Fenlon's tenure and subsequent results.
But it seems to me that Pat Fenlon will never do for many posters on here no matter how the team performs.
He has an impossible task winning over his critics and even though he's got us on a relatively decent run at the moment. As soon as a crap result like today's happen, the knives are ready to be plunged deeply.
What does he have to do to satisfy the most fervent critics?

I am constantly surprised at how little abuse Pat gets from the stands, or at least my bit of the East. Far less than the likes of former players like Mixu or Yogi got. I think Pats got an extremely fair and patient response from the fans in the stands. Possibly because he comes across as a thoroughly decent genuine guy; and possibly because we have realised that managers have to be given a reasonable period of time to implement their plans.

Pats had that time. Hes had the backing of the Board. Him and his team continue to get fantastic backing from the fans (the "Paddy Fenlons green and white army" chants were still ringing out yesterday). Unfortunately that trio of factors hasn't produced the consistent improvement I think we should expect. Mini recovery is followed by period of disorganised disaster followed by mini recovery followed by ... its a vicious circle Pat hasn't been able to get us out of.

Pat will be here for the season and im convinced will deliver the mid table mediocrity which will meet our Boards ambitions. But in a pish poor SPFL and given the players hes got, I think so much more should be achievable.

NAE NOOKIE
27-10-2013, 11:28 AM
This is no hate in .... in fact I doubt if there has been any manager in my time watching Hibs who has been given so much leeway by the fans.

From the perspective of the board he has also been given a decent kick of the ball.

I would imagine that what would cause me sleepless nights as the owner of a football club is the fact that in just about every game Hibs have played under Pat's tenure where we have had a bigger turn out of Hibbies than usual our performances and results have been poor and in some cases utter rank rubbish.

2012 Scottish Cup final ...... Hibs could easily have sold 50,000 tickets for this one ... those that did manage to get in were treated to a nightmare.

2013 Scottish cup semi ..... only an utter miracle caused by him being given no choice but to throw caution to the wind prevented an amazing 17,000 Hibs fans being witness to another utter humiliation.

2013 Scottish Cup final ..... Not a 2012 type disaster, but at no time in that game did it ever look like it was going to be anything other than a bog standard run of the mill win for celtic ... not what you hope for in a cup final.

Europa League .... What can you say ... 16,000 turned up which from what I can see from the Europa League highlights every week on the telly is a hell of a lot better than some clubs around Europe who are supposed to be bigger than us. What happened? we were turned over as if we were an East of Scotland league team playing a professional club.

Saturday ... From what I could make out there was a bigger home turn out than usual, who were treated to a frankly poor effort at winning a home league fixture .. so much so that we had less possession than the away team and one, possibly two, shots on goal. Not for the first time at home this season.

None of this is going to encourage those extra fans who turned up for these games to become ST holders or regular walk ups. In fact this is the sort of stuff which makes folk give up being regular fans who already are.

The only times in PFs tenure where we have come out on top in a big game where we may not have been favourites to win have been the Aberdeen Simi in 2012 and the Scottish Cup tie at ER against the Yams.

Add all of the above to the fact that in most matches we are pretty poor to watch and our shocking stat of two wins in the league at home all year and as the owner of a club I would be saying ..... " this guy is costing us a fortune, any money we made from reaching two cup finals is being offset by the number of fans we are losing through disasters in big games and the rank style of football"

There are bigger and more experienced managers all over Europe who have been sacked this year with records a lot better than Pat Fenlons ....... The fact that he is still around is looking more and more like sentiment than sound footballing judgement.

Like most Hibs fans I like Pat Fenlon and will be sad to see him sacked, because I can think of a hell of a lot more people who I would want to see something bad happen to. But if we fail to beat the Yams on Wednesday and he doesnt resign or the board dont sack him I for one will have lost the last tiny wee bit of faith I have left in the people who are supposed to be running Hibernian FC because it will be clear that as far as the footballing side of the club goes they clearly havny got a clue what they are doing.

Rant over .... GGTTH

mutley
27-10-2013, 11:36 AM
I think a lot of folk are like me in that they desperately want to see Fenlon succeed. I've tried as best as I could to look for positives in what has been a good recent run of results but there is no hiding from the fact that over probably the last 3-4 years there's been only about ten games (if that) where I've really enjoyed the game.
Sitting through games where we muster 3 chances in 90 minutes is not my idea of fun, paying 400-odd quid to do it even less so.

That about sums it up for me. Every time we start to look like we might be finally getting somewhere ( nice wee run, good battle against Celtic) then yesterday's abysmal showing against the sheep. I feel we are just going round in circles instead if progressing. A loss on Wednesday with be the last straw in my book. Looking at who is left in the LC we have a real chance if we play like last week, no chance if we play like yesterday .

blackpoolhibs
27-10-2013, 11:38 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

They appear to have joined Dave too.

flash
27-10-2013, 11:49 AM
This is no hate in .... in fact I doubt if there has been any manager in my time watching Hibs who has been given so much leeway by the fans.

From the perspective of the board he has also been given a decent kick of the ball.

I would imagine that what would cause me sleepless nights as the owner of a football club is the fact that in just about every game Hibs have played under Pat's tenure where we have had a bigger turn out of Hibbies than usual our performances and results have been poor and in some cases utter rank rubbish.

2012 Scottish Cup final ...... Hibs could easily have sold 50,000 tickets for this one ... those that did manage to get in were treated to a nightmare.

2013 Scottish cup semi ..... only an utter miracle caused by him being given no choice but to throw caution to the wind prevented an amazing 17,000 Hibs fans being witness to another utter humiliation.

2013 Scottish Cup final ..... Not a 2012 type disaster, but at no time in that game did it ever look like it was going to be anything other than a bog standard run of the mill win for celtic ... not what you hope for in a cup final.

Europa League .... What can you say ... 16,000 turned up which from what I can see from the Europa League highlights every week on the telly is a hell of a lot better than some clubs around Europe who are supposed to be bigger than us. What happened? we were turned over as if we were an East of Scotland league team playing a professional club.

Saturday ... From what I could make out there was a bigger home turn out than usual, who were treated to a frankly poor effort at winning a home league fixture .. so much so that we had less possession than the away team and one, possibly two, shots on goal. Not for the first time at home this season.

None of this is going to encourage those extra fans who turned up for these games to become ST holders or regular walk ups. In fact this is the sort of stuff which makes folk give up being regular fans who already are.

The only times in PFs tenure where we have come out on top in a big game where we may not have been favourites to win have been the Aberdeen Simi in 2012 and the Scottish Cup tie at ER against the Yams.

Add all of the above to the fact that in most matches we are pretty poor to watch and our shocking stat of two wins in the league at home all year and as the owner of a club I would be saying ..... " this guy is costing us a fortune, any money we made from reaching two cup finals is being offset by the number of fans we are losing through disasters in big games and the rank style of football"

There are bigger and more experienced managers all over Europe who have been sacked this year with records a lot better than Pat Fenlons ....... The fact that he is still around is looking more and more like sentiment than sound footballing judgement.

Like most Hibs fans I like Pat Fenlon and will be sad to see him sacked, because I can think of a hell of a lot more people who I would want to see something bad happen to. But if we fail to beat the Yams on Wednesday and he doesnt resign or the board dont sack him I for one will have lost the last tiny wee bit of faith I have left in the people who are supposed to be running Hibernian FC because it will be clear that as far as the footballing side of the club goes they clearly havny got a clue what they are doing.

Rant over .... GGTTH

I agree with every word of that. He has been given every chance by a set of fans who have suffered more than most.

He appears to have improved a lot of things at the club but seems completely unable to put a team out who play football that is pleasing on the eye.

We have a massive game on Wednesday against the club with no shame and I will be 100% behind the team but, regardless of the result, we need to make a change before we lose thousands of punters we might never get back.

Beefster
27-10-2013, 11:54 AM
This is no hate in .... in fact I doubt if there has been any manager in my time watching Hibs who has been given so much leeway by the fans.

From the perspective of the board he has also been given a decent kick of the ball.

I would imagine that what would cause me sleepless nights as the owner of a football club is the fact that in just about every game Hibs have played under Pat's tenure where we have had a bigger turn out of Hibbies than usual our performances and results have been poor and in some cases utter rank rubbish.

2012 Scottish Cup final ...... Hibs could easily have sold 50,000 tickets for this one ... those that did manage to get in were treated to a nightmare.

2013 Scottish cup semi ..... only an utter miracle caused by him being given no choice but to throw caution to the wind prevented an amazing 17,000 Hibs fans being witness to another utter humiliation.

2013 Scottish Cup final ..... Not a 2012 type disaster, but at no time in that game did it ever look like it was going to be anything other than a bog standard run of the mill win for celtic ... not what you hope for in a cup final.

Europa League .... What can you say ... 16,000 turned up which from what I can see from the Europa League highlights every week on the telly is a hell of a lot better than some clubs around Europe who are supposed to be bigger than us. What happened? we were turned over as if we were an East of Scotland league team playing a professional club.

Saturday ... From what I could make out there was a bigger home turn out than usual, who were treated to a frankly poor effort at winning a home league fixture .. so much so that we had less possession than the away team and one, possibly two, shots on goal. Not for the first time at home this season.

None of this is going to encourage those extra fans who turned up for these games to become ST holders or regular walk ups. In fact this is the sort of stuff which makes folk give up being regular fans who already are.

The only times in PFs tenure where we have come out on top in a big game where we may not have been favourites to win have been the Aberdeen Simi in 2012 and the Scottish Cup tie at ER against the Yams.

Add all of the above to the fact that in most matches we are pretty poor to watch and our shocking stat of two wins in the league at home all year and as the owner of a club I would be saying ..... " this guy is costing us a fortune, any money we made from reaching two cup finals is being offset by the number of fans we are losing through disasters in big games and the rank style of football"

There are bigger and more experienced managers all over Europe who have been sacked this year with records a lot better than Pat Fenlons ....... The fact that he is still around is looking more and more like sentiment than sound footballing judgement.

Like most Hibs fans I like Pat Fenlon and will be sad to see him sacked, because I can think of a hell of a lot more people who I would want to see something bad happen to. But if we fail to beat the Yams on Wednesday and he doesnt resign or the board dont sack him I for one will have lost the last tiny wee bit of faith I have left in the people who are supposed to be running Hibernian FC because it will be clear that as far as the footballing side of the club goes they clearly havny got a clue what they are doing.

Rant over .... GGTTH

Good post. I'd like to see anyone who still thinks he's the man for the job deal with your points.

Hibbyradge
27-10-2013, 11:58 AM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

That's right, mate.

A loss to Aberdeen has put me on suicide watch. :faf:

I had a season ticket for 20 odd years, but this is the 3rd year I haven't renewed. My suicide watch started years ago.

We've been to two Scottish Cup finals, sure. Great for the profit and loss figures, but we lost 8 goals in the process and played exactly zero football.

Why are we only looking at the last 9 games? We've played 11 league games, won 4 lost 4, drawn 3, scored only 9 goals and again, apart from against St Mirren, our style has made the eyes bleed.

I'm pleased that you're happy though. It's increasingly important that folk with implausibly low expectations like you keep the club going until such time as we start playing football again and folk like me start coming back. I'm extremely grateful to you. :aok:

PS What does pls mean? :rolleyes:

Keith_M
27-10-2013, 12:07 PM
I don't hate Pat Fenlon. In fact, there are very few people for whom I could genuinely us the word 'hate'. The following is why I'm 'concerned' about having him as manager (Keeping in mind that he's now been here almost two years) :

---
We're in a league with no Rangers and a decimated Hearts yet we are looking likely to finish in 6th/7th place (we're the very definition of average).

Ten months into the year, we've won a grand total of two home league games, one of those against an already relegated Dundee in May.

In 11 league games, we've only scored 9 goals.

People are watching Hibs and leaving the match wondering why they bothered turning up.

---
To top it all off, as I'm unable to get a Season Ticket for myself, I offered to buy STs for this season for both my Dad and Niece (both big Hibs fans). Both of them said no thanks

Craig_in_Prague
27-10-2013, 12:21 PM
What was CCs overall record and what is Pats?

HUTCHYHIBBY
27-10-2013, 12:31 PM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

Folk are chucking it in down to an accumulation of pish results/performances, not just on the back of one game. There are a number of posters on here who have accumulated a huge number of years supporting Hibs who have had enough of this man. Just get him and his monotonous style of football out the door.

Captain Trips
27-10-2013, 12:40 PM
I expect pelters for this bearing in mind the inconsistent nature of Fenlon's tenure and subsequent results.
But it seems to me that Pat Fenlon will never do for many posters on here no matter how the team performs.
He has an impossible task winning over his critics and even though he's got us on a relatively decent run at the moment. As soon as a crap result like today's happen, the knives are ready to be plunged deeply.
What does he have to do to satisfy the most fervent critics?

Very assumptive that is IMO we havent been better than average for that point to be seen, if Hibs were flying and had finished 2nd and folk wanted rid then fine you may have a point. IMO we are not on a decent run we are average at best. I do not care who manager is as long as we are good.

He will not do for me until he actually proves over a decent time he can get results and IMO he hasent. He has critics as he hasnt done good enough thats the bottom line and I think everyone on here would like him to succeed so I think your point in bold is way off mark.

gillythehibby
27-10-2013, 12:42 PM
I am constantly surprised at how little abuse Pat gets from the stands, or at least my bit of the East. Far less than the likes of former players like Mixu or Yogi got. I think Pats got an extremely fair and patient response from the fans in the stands. Possibly because he comes across as a thoroughly decent genuine guy; and possibly because we have realised that managers have to be given a reasonable period of time to implement their plans.

Pats had that time. Hes had the backing of the Board. Him and his team continue to get fantastic backing from the fans (the "Paddy Fenlons green and white army" chants were still ringing out yesterday). Unfortunately that trio of factors hasn't produced the consistent improvement I think we should expect. Mini recovery is followed by period of disorganised disaster followed by mini recovery followed by ... its a vicious circle Pat hasn't been able to get us out of.

Pat will be here for the season and im convinced will deliver the mid table mediocrity which will meet our Boards ambitions. But in a pish poor SPFL and given the players hes got, I think so much more should be achievable.

Bang on this post. Pretty much how 90% of fans feel. I think if pat would change the approach and go for it a little more, then he might be pleasantly surprised. There is not one team i that league Hibs need to be scared of. We even stood up to Celtic. So Please Pat, read this forum and gives us the kind of passing football Hibs fans crave and the club famous for. If we get beat from time to time fair doos. But please do not push yourself closer to the trap door. GBTH

Onion
27-10-2013, 12:51 PM
If this season goes pear-shaped, starting with Wednesday, Petrie has to take full responsibility. No one else.

We all know Fenlon is a rubbish manager and known it for a while. He's repeatedly proven that beyond a reasonable doubt. I see no point in blaming Fenlon any more. He's doing his best, and his best is just awful. The ONLY man who has any power to change that is Petrie. If he choses not to do anything about it, he's either incompetent or shirking his responsibilities and has to go.

Cropley10
27-10-2013, 06:54 PM
Stay away pls, as well as winners on the park, we need winners in the stands, not more moaning from people who can't be arse going. We were on a decent run in the last 9 games, have been to 2 Scottish cup finals in the last two years, yet folk like you are on suicide watch because we lost to Aberdeen, due to an individule error, poor finising from our striker and a sucker punch.

You were quite obviously not at the game. Or you are 13. Or you are on the wind-up.

Yesterday we played for a draw and got beaten. It's what Pat does.

But here's a stat for you: 2 (TWO) home League wins in 2013. Two. That is it. It's not really possible to have a worse record than this and keep your job. Somehow Pat is allowed to do this, but there is light at the end of the tunnel, as I'm certain he won't get his contract renewed.

And as nice a man as he undoubtedly is, this is the biggest job he will ever have...

Cropley10
27-10-2013, 06:55 PM
I expect pelters for this bearing in mind the inconsistent nature of Fenlon's tenure and subsequent results.
But it seems to me that Pat Fenlon will never do for many posters on here no matter how the team performs.
He has an impossible task winning over his critics and even though he's got us on a relatively decent run at the moment. As soon as a crap result like today's happen, the knives are ready to be plunged deeply.
What does he have to do to satisfy the most fervent critics?

Every other team - especially the Jambos - want Pat to keep his job. His win record is appalling.

Jonnyboy
27-10-2013, 07:48 PM
Good post. I'd like to see anyone who still thinks he's the man for the job deal with your points.

Got anyone in mind? :wink:

hibsitis
27-10-2013, 11:14 PM
You were quite obviously not at the game. Or you are 13. Or you are on the wind-up.

Yesterday we played for a draw and got beaten. It's what Pat does.

But here's a stat for you: 2 (TWO) home League wins in 2013. Two. That is it. It's not really possible to have a worse record than this and keep your job. Somehow Pat is allowed to do this, but there is light at the end of the tunnel, as I'm certain he won't get his contract renewed.

And as nice a man as he undoubtedly is, this is the biggest job he will ever have...

To be quite clear, that's two out of 14.

Cropley10
31-10-2013, 07:37 AM
To be quite clear, that's two out of 14.

So not too far shy of a third of a season.