Maddie McCann - the 'parents'

[IWasThere2016]

All over the Press again..

How those 'parents' are still not in the jail is beyond me.

Not even tried for willfull neglect - quite astonishing IMHO.

That wee soul is no longer of this world IMHO, and how those two are not held to account just defies me everytime I think about it.

[marinello59]

They made a terrible mistake and have been living a nightmare ever since. Punishment enough surely.

[Sylar]

A child is reported missing every 3 minutes in the UK and yet still the disappearance of this wee lassie still receives rolling prime coverage.

Whilst I appreciate, as parents, that they'll wish to do everything they possibly can until they have the closure they need, I'm constantly baffled by why the media chose to give this specific case such high profile exposure.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Both educated and middle-class, they are at ease in front of the camera. Makes me feel a little uneasy at how often they are on tv and how polished they are.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm always a bit wary of being too critical about them because, as has been said above, they have paid one hell of a price for their actions.

For me i'm not sure they saw it as anything wrong or an act of neglect to leave their kids alone. I think it may have been a case or misplaced middle class arrogance/naivety, a thought that such a thing doesn't happen to people like them. I suppose it also has to be a concern that that may not have been the 1st time they left their infant children unattended. Whether you check them every 5 minutes or 5 hours it's still wrong.

As for the media coverage. If you look closely in supermarkets, on buses now and then, in train stations etc you will see pictures of missing children. Some of these kids have been missing for months and even years. Yet they never make any page of the papers never mind the front page several years on. The thing all these kids have in common is they all look a bit poor, a lot of them are non white or have names that suggest they may not have entirely British parentage. In other words they aren't the right image for the media and the medias target readership. It's sad but true that the whole McCann story is the medias dream, a pretty little girl, a respectable family, a shocking Police enquiry, rumours of kidnapping to order, gypsies, paedophiles etc etc.

[IWasThere2016]

They made a terrible mistake and have been living a nightmare ever since. Punishment enough surely.

So, if I get pished, drive and knock a child over stone dead I'd be able to use the same excuse?

[marinello59]

So, if I get pished, drive and knock a child over I'd be able to use the same excuse?

That's just being silly. The McCann's didn't harm their child. The person who entered the apartment and abducted her did that. I don't see any anger directed from you in that direction though.

[Peevemor]

The story also got a lot of coverage in France, in all media.

[stoneyburn hibs]

That's just being silly. The McCann's didn't harm their child. The person who entered the apartment and abducted her did that. I don't see any anger directed from you in that direction though.

You could argue that indirectly they did harm their child through neglect.

[IWasThere2016]

That's just being silly. The McCann's didn't harm their child. The person who entered the apartment and abducted her did that. I don't see any anger directed from you in that direction though.

Neglect is harm. If Maddie was being cared for none of this would've happened. They are culpable of neglect.

[Casey1875]

A few years ago I spoke with one of the leading British forensic scientists involved in the case, who was adamant that if the mccanns weren't brought to justice for this case that it was a travesty. He highlighted a lot of inconsistencies in the case. I tend to believe that they know more about this than meets the eye.

[Twa Cairpets]

Neglect is harm. If Maddie was being cared for none of this would've happened. They are culpable of neglect.

Sanctimonious garbage.
Judge, jury, executioner.
If you pop next door while your toddler is in bed and something happens are you evil?

If you believe them innocent of any criminal wrongdoing or involvement in the disappearance of their daughter - which I do - then all they have done is made a minor "mistake" with an inconceivably disproportionate consequence.

Not many posts on .net now really get my goat as a result of their stupidity, lack of empathy and, frankly, lack of humanity. Well done. Your posts score 10/10 on all.

[brian6-2]

Sanctimonious garbage.
Judge, jury, executioner.
If you pop next door while your toddler is in bed and something happens are you evil.

If you believe them innocent of any criminal wrongdoing or involvement in the disappearance of their daughter - which I do - then all they have done is made a minor "mistake" with an inconceivably disproportionate consequence.

Not many posts on .net now really get my goat as a result of their stupidity, lack of empathy and, frankly, lack of humanity. Well done. Your posts score 10/10 on all.

correct me if im wrong but did they no go out for a meal?

[Beefster]

If you pop next door while your toddler is in bed and something happens are you evil.

Not evil but if you popped next door for a few glasses of wine and a three-courser whilst your toddler is sleeping upstairs, you'd be guilty of neglect.

[Hibbyradge]

Both educated and middle-class, they are at ease in front of the camera. Makes me feel a little uneasy at how often they are on tv and how polished they are.

They've been appearing on TV for 6 and a half years.

They're used to it.

[Hibbyradge]

correct me if im wrong but did they no go out for a meal?

They did, in an outdoor restaurant only 50 yards away, and they checked on their children every hour or so.

It was a terrible mistake to make, but an understandable one, imo.

[brian6-2]

They did, in an outdoor restaurant only 50 yards away, and they checked on their children every hour or so.

It was a terrible mistake to make, but an understandable one, imo.

I disagree, leaving your child on its own at home for any ammount of time never mind in another country is totally unacceptable if im being honest.

If i left my son in on his todd and went along to the pub but checked on him every hour and something happened to him id be ripped to pieces by the press and charged. why that never happened to the mcanns is beyond me.

You dont leave your kids on their own, no matter where you are in the world. it just shouldnt happen.

[Killiehibbie]

So, if I get pished, drive and knock a child over stone dead I'd be able to use the same excuse?
You could try it and if the first policeman on the scene is the same one I got when a drunk couldn't/refused to pay his taxi fare you won't be held accountable for your actions due to being pished.

[marinello59]

Neglect is harm. If Maddie was being cared for none of this would've happened. They are culpable of neglect.

I am not defending their actions in leaving their daughter alone. It was a tragic error of judgement. They could not and would not have foreseen that evil would visit their apartment that night though. I simply couldn't contemplate that happening to my own kids. The online hate campaigns against the McCann's over the years have one thing in common, a refusal to condemn the monster who actually entered that room and abducted a young child. It's all their fault apparently.
But let's pretend I agree with you that the McCann's should be charged with neglect. What do you suggest happens to them? Have their other kids forcibly taken in to care whilst they serve a jail term. And maybe yourself and all the other perfect parents in the country could wait outside the court to shout some abuse? Would that be revenge enough because it seems to be all about a need to punish this tortured couple further.

[stoneyburn hibs]

I disagree, leaving your child on its own at home for any ammount of time never mind in another country is totally unacceptable if im being honest.

If i left my son in on his todd and went along to the pub but checked on him every hour and something happened to him id be ripped to pieces by the press and charged. why that never happened to the mcanns is beyond me.

You dont leave your kids on their own, no matter where you are in the world. it just shouldnt happen.

:agree:, Replace the McCanns with dole spongers Joe and Sharon Bloggs from Muirhouse, abroad and in the boozer drinking happy hour cocktails, checking on their kids every hour or so. Dont think they would get the same press.

[brian6-2]

:agree:, Replace the McCanns with dole spongers Joe and Sharon Bloggs from Muirhouse, abroad and in the boozer drinking happy hour cocktails, checking on their kids every hour or so. Dont think they would get the same press.

Spot on. :agree:

[steakbake]

All over the Press again..

How those 'parents' are still not in the jail is beyond me.

Not even tried for willfull neglect - quite astonishing IMHO.

That wee soul is no longer of this world IMHO, and how those two are not held to account just defies me everytime I think about it.


Just my opinion and impression from what I have read about the case, butI think they know more about it all than we might expect. There's something that just doesn't seem right about it all.

The Portuguese police were slammed in the media for suspecting them and to be honest, that itself probably derailed any decent chance of a successful outcome.

[Aldo]

They left the kids to go for a meal and couldn't see the apartment. They locked the kids in and shut the metal blinds.

The person or people responsible for taking that wee girl should be found and brought to justice.

The McCanns are paying a very very heavy price for an evening out - checking on their children every now and again.

I don't want to sound callous but they put their children at risk and exposed them to danger as result of them not taking responsibility for them.

What they did was in my eyes out of order and just like me going round to my local for a few pints and a bite to eat while my 4 year old was in her bed.

Them going for a meal leaving their kids locked in the apartment (especially in a foreign country) Is inexcusable IMHO.

[SneakersO'Toole]

I am not defending their actions in leaving their daughter alone. It was a tragic error of judgement. They could not and would not have foreseen that evil would visit their apartment that night though. I simply couldn't contemplate that happening to my own kids. The online hate campaigns against the McCann's over the years have one thing in common, a refusal to condemn the monster who actually entered that room and abducted a young child. It's all their fault apparently.
But let's pretend I agree with you that the McCann's should be charged with neglect. What do you suggest happens to them? Have their other kids forcibly taken in to care whilst they serve a jail term. And maybe yourself and all the other perfect parents in the country could wait outside the court to shout some abuse? Would that be revenge enough because it seems to be all about a need to punish this tortured couple further.

Great post.

One childs life is ruined, possibly even over but yet the baying mob want to ruin that of the other McCann children who are ever so involved in this.

The only thing to be gained by going down the route of neglect is to ruin the lives of the other children, as if they weren't already tarnished and most likely irreparable.

[allmodcons]

**** me, I so wish I hadn't decided to take a quick look at this thread. The lack of compassion shown on here towards a couple who are paying a heavy price for poor parenting is almost beyond believe. The monster who took the child is the guilty party here. This is where EVERYBODY should be directing their vitriol. I despair of people who think they never make mistakes. FFS show some compassion.

[Jack]

What about folk that live in huge houses and the kids sleep in the west wing. In some places I know that's probably further away than the McCanns were. Possibly a red herring in the conversation.

I can't recall ever doing what the McCanns did but I can see where they're coming from leaving the kids in a secure house less than a minute away.

What happened after that was previously, to me anyway, inconceivable. Somebody breaking in and stealing a child, unbelievable. I think that's probably the reason they've got the media on their side and so much sympathy.

Had the kid got up and gone walkabout and was then kidnapped or to some degree injured then I think it would have been a whole different story.

[Peevemor]

What about folk that live in huge houses and the kids sleep in the west wing. In some places I know that's probably further away than the McCanns were. Possibly a red herring in the conversation.

I can't recall ever doing what the McCanns did but I can see where they're coming from leaving the kids in a secure house less than a minute away.

What happened after that was previously, to me anyway, inconceivable. Somebody breaking in and stealing a child, unbelievable. I think that's probably the reason they've got the media on their side and so much sympathy.

Had the kid got up and gone walkabout and was then kidnapped or to some degree injured then I think it would have been a whole different story.

IIRC the patio doors were closed but not locked. The adjacent swimming pool would be dangerous enough for a 3 year old, let alone any potential abductors.

[silverhibee]

I am not defending their actions in leaving their daughter alone. It was a tragic error of judgement. They could not and would not have foreseen that evil would visit their apartment that night though. I simply couldn't contemplate that happening to my own kids. The online hate campaigns against the McCann's over the years have one thing in common, a refusal to condemn the monster who actually entered that room and abducted a young child. It's all their fault apparently.
But let's pretend I agree with you that the McCann's should be charged with neglect. What do you suggest happens to them? Have their other kids forcibly taken in to care whilst they serve a jail term. And maybe yourself and all the other perfect parents in the country could wait outside the court to shout some abuse? Would that be revenge enough because it seems to be all about a need to punish this tortured couple further.

Lets just say this happened to Tam and Julie who were a couple of junkies but managed to go a holiday and take there kids with them, and the same event happened with them, the bit in bold, that's exactly what would happen as soon as they arrived back in the country, police would be there to detain them on neglect charges and social services would also be there to take the other kid in to care and the press would have branded them ****bag junkie parents who couldn't look after the kids and wouldn't deserve the chance to look after the other kid, it would more than likely spend there young age in homes and with carers to protect them from the parents.

Why would anyone in there right mind go abroad and leave there children unattended while you went out and had a meal and drinks and think it is okay to check on your kids every hour, they must feel very guilty about things, maybe there crusade to find Maddie takes there thoughts away that they were responsible for the chain reaction that sadly took place.

For the people who committed this horrible act against Maddie and took her away, hope they get caught and pay the price for this crime.

[johnbc70]

There seems to be a common perception that lots of 'poorer' children go missing all the time yet never get the same publicity. Is there any evidence of this?

[lord bunberry]

When this all happened I remember thinking that what the maccans did in leaving the kids alone while they had a meal wasn't that bad, I now have a child of my own and can't comprehend how they thought it was even remotely acceptable to leave their kids unattended.
I don't see the point in charging them with neglect, but what they did was place their children in danger and they will have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

[Mon Dieu4]

I've just watched the bit on Crimewatch about it, they left them every night, the wee one asked where they were one night when they woke up crying, their method of dealing with it was just to leave them alone again but check on them more often

Poor people to have that happen but i really despair

[Hibbyradge]

There seems to be a common perception that lots of 'poorer' children go missing all the time yet never get the same publicity. Is there any evidence of this?

Children, i.e. people under the age of 18, go missing every few minutes, but most of them are runaways and are found quickly.

estimates are between 100k and 150k.

Only a few are not found and abduction by strangers are very rare.

Some of the research that is available can be found here (https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/missing-people/about-the-issue/about-the-issue).

[johnbc70]

Children, i.e. people under the age of 18, go missing every few minutes, but most of them are runaways and are found quickly.

estimates are between 100k and 150k.

Only a few are not found and abduction by strangers are very rare.

Some of the research that is available can be found here (https://www.missingpeople.org.uk/missing-people/about-the-issue/about-the-issue).

Thanks, I understand children go missing all the time but there seems to be an undercurrent on this thread that if a poorer child goes missing (not for a day but longer with no clue where they could be) then it would not receive the same publicity or news coverage. I think thats a load of rubbish.

[Tyler Durden]

Thanks, I understand children go missing all the time but there seems to be an undercurrent on this thread that if a poorer child goes missing (not for a day but longer with no clue where they could be) then it would not receive the same publicity or news coverage. I think thats a load of rubbish.

I thought Hibbyradge posted that to support your argument?

[Pretty Boy]

Thanks, I understand children go missing all the time but there seems to be an undercurrent on this thread that if a poorer child goes missing (not for a day but longer with no clue where they could be) then it would not receive the same publicity or news coverage. I think thats a load of rubbish.

http://www.missingkids.co.uk/missing/?p=0

How many names on that list have you seen covered in the national media?

How many on the 1st few pages look from the same social background as the McCanns?

[Jonnyboy]

**** me, I so wish I hadn't decided to take a quick look at this thread. The lack of compassion shown on here towards a couple who are paying a heavy price for poor parenting is almost beyond believe. The monster who took the child is the guilty party here. This is where EVERYBODY should be directing their vitriol. I despair of people who think they never make mistakes. FFS show some compassion.

This. 100%

To those who feel the McCann's should be punished for neglect. Should the same punishment be doled out to the other couples in their group who also left their kids sleeping and went back to check on them now and again?

There's only one crime here but those who prefer to jump all over the parents seem to have forgotten that fact

As for the publicity. The media created it and have perpetuated it. Ask yourself this .... if your kid was abducted would you use every possible avenue to try and find out where the kid was and what had happened to it? Too damned right you would.

All this rubbish about 'poor folk wouldn't get the same coverage' is just bull**** IMO

Six years since she was taken. Her mother looks twenty years older. Their 'punishment' is suffered every day but it seems that's not enough for some. Shame on you

[johnbc70]

I thought Hibbyradge posted that to support your argument?

Was not having a go at him, making a general point. Apologies if it looked that way hibbyradge!

[johnbc70]

http://www.missingkids.co.uk/missing/?p=0

How many names on that list have you seen covered in the national media?

How many on the 1st few pages look from the same social background as the McCanns?

The first page is full of 'kids' aged 16 down to the youngest who is 13. Madeline McCann was 3 years old when she went missing. I think if the 3 year old brother and sister of one of those kids went missing or was abducted then it would generate just as much publicity as any other 3 year old going missing. I do not think you can compare teenagers who are nearly adults that go missing with very small children. Look at the April Jones case, she was not exactly middle class or Tia Sharp or Shannon Matthews who went 'missing' and it was never out the news. To suggest that poorer or well less off children do not receive the same coverage is a load of nonsense IMO.

[Pretty Boy]

The first page is full of 'kids' aged 16 down to the youngest who is 13. Madeline McCann was 3 years old when she went missing. I think if the 3 year old brother and sister of one of those kids went missing or was abducted then it would generate just as much publicity as any other 3 year old going missing. I do not think you can compare teenagers who are nearly adults that go missing with very small children. Look at the April Jones case, she was not exactly middle class or Tia Sharp or Shannon Matthews who went 'missing' and it was never out the news. To suggest that poorer or well less off children do not receive the same coverage is a load of nonsense IMO.

You know what you are probably right, i'm not really comparing apples with apples.

I should be clear as well that this wasn't meant as a dig at the McCanns. Of course anyone in their position would use the media interest to keep their plight in the public conscience for as long as possible.

[Hibbyradge]

The first page is full of 'kids' aged 16 down to the youngest who is 13. Madeline McCann was 3 years old when she went missing. I think if the 3 year old brother and sister of one of those kids went missing or was abducted then it would generate just as much publicity as any other 3 year old going missing. I do not think you can compare teenagers who are nearly adults that go missing with very small children. Look at the April Jones case, she was not exactly middle class or Tia Sharp or Shannon Matthews who went 'missing' and it was never out the news. To suggest that poorer or well less off children do not receive the same coverage is a load of nonsense IMO.

I agree with that, John.

The Soham girls weren't upper class. Kevin Wells is a window cleaner and Leslie Chapman is an engineer, I think.

When young children go missing, it gets publicised. The police ensure it doers and the newspapers are always keen to print human interest stories like these.

[Twa Cairpets]

Not evil but if you popped next door for a few glasses of wine and a three-courser whilst your toddler is sleeping upstairs, you'd be guilty of neglect.

Sorry. missed a question mark out.
No, you wouldn't be guilty of neglect if you did as you say. that is ridiculous.

It can be argued that the McCanns behaviour wasn't best practice, but it wasn't active neglect, or cruel, or evil. It was something that I suspect happens literally millions of times on holiday and at homes without any problems whatsoever.

Those calling for punishment are to my mind just unbelievably sanctimonious and, i suspect, have a problem with them being middle class and successful. If it was my kid I;d do everything in my power to keep it as high profile as possible, and if I had the contact and savvy to get the media to do this then I would. Wouldn't anyone?
It also surely puts to bed the idea that they were involved - why would you keep the pressure on if you were - people have short memories.

[IWasThere2016]

Sanctimonious garbage.
Judge, jury, executioner.
If you pop next door while your toddler is in bed and something happens are you evil?

If you believe them innocent of any criminal wrongdoing or involvement in the disappearance of their daughter - which I do - then all they have done is made a minor "mistake" with an inconceivably disproportionate consequence.

Not many posts on .net now really get my goat as a result of their stupidity, lack of empathy and, frankly, lack of humanity. Well done. Your posts score 10/10 on all.

:faf: They went for a piss-up as they did several times the nights before. There was a baby-sitting service available. They neglected their child(ren) and should be brought to account IMHO. Eff all to do with "stupidity, empathy etc" try decent, sensible, careful parenting skills ya balloon!

[IWasThere2016]

They left the kids to go for a meal and couldn't see the apartment. They locked the kids in and shut the metal blinds.

The person or people responsible for taking that wee girl should be found and brought to justice.

The McCanns are paying a very very heavy price for an evening out - checking on their children every now and again.

I don't want to sound callous but they put their children at risk and exposed them to danger as result of them not taking responsibility for them.

What they did was in my eyes out of order and just like me going round to my local for a few pints and a bite to eat while my 4 year old was in her bed.

Them going for a meal leaving their kids locked in the apartment (especially in a foreign country) Is inexcusable IMHO.

This - have to agree with 6-2, stoney and silver also on this. Neglect is neglect, and it is an offence in my view.

[IWasThere2016]

I've just watched the bit on Crimewatch about it, they left them every night, the wee one asked where they were one night when they woke up crying, their method of dealing with it was just to leave them alone again but check on them more often

Poor people to have that happen but i really despair

Poor parenting in my book, and neglect also IMHO.

Did I read correctly that the other adults involved will no longer discuss the matter/events of that evening?

[Hibrandenburg]

Let's get one thing straight here, Maddie is the victim and not the McCann's. Sure the McCann's have suffered a living hell since she went missing but they were part of the chain of events that led to Maddie's disappearance.

To leave a 3 year old alone in apartment unattended for 10 mins nevermind an hour is gross negligence. There's just so much that can go wrong and it can happen so quickly.

They're going through a living hell and my heart goes out to them, but they are complicit in its making.

[RyeSloan]

Sorry. missed a question mark out. No, you wouldn't be guilty of neglect if you did as you say. that is ridiculous. It can be argued that the McCanns behaviour wasn't best practice, but it wasn't active neglect, or cruel, or evil. It was something that I suspect happens literally millions of times on holiday and at homes without any problems whatsoever. Those calling for punishment are to my mind just unbelievably sanctimonious and, i suspect, have a problem with them being middle class and successful. If it was my kid I;d do everything in my power to keep it as high profile as possible, and if I had the contact and savvy to get the media to do this then I would. Wouldn't anyone? It also surely puts to bed the idea that they were involved - why would you keep the pressure on if you were - people have short memories.

Really so it's simply 'not best practice' to leave a 3 yo alone while you go next door for a bevy and a scran. Wow.

Totally agree on the points regarding keeping the issue in the public eye, who wouldn't do that.

No doubt the mccanns are suffering and I'm not sure what punishment could be given to them that is more painful than the one they must face every day they wake up but none the less the pseudo acceptance of leaving such a young child alone so frequently because you believe it happens millions of times at home and on holiday is wrong I suggest.

I would also suggest that you are wrong to suggest that it is so common place...I know of no parent, myself included that would ever countenance regularily leaving such a young child so often. I wouldn't do it now with my 9 yo no matter a bloomin' yo. Totally unacceptable in my book.

[Aldo]

At the end of the day it's up to the Portuguese authorities to take action in respect of any offences committed (or not) by the McCanns. I would suspect that they would of been dealt with by now if they were going to.

I will say this I have a 9yo and a 4yo daughter and they are mine and my wife's responsibility (unless they are at a proper kids club where they look after them) no one else's. one should of stayed or they could of brought the kids down with them in their buggies.


As for the neglect part... In this country you don't need to have come to any harm to be done (charged and reported for neglect) but as below

Children and Young Persons Act

(1)If any person who has attained the age of sixteen years and [F2who has parental responsibilities in relation to a child or to a young person under that age or has charge or care of a child or such a young person,], wilfully assaults, ill-treats, neglects, abandons, or exposes him, or causes or procures him to be assaulted, ill-treated, neglected, abandoned, or exposed, in a manner likely to cause him unnecessary suffering or injury to health (including injury to or loss of sight, or hearing, or limb, or organ of the body, and any mental derangement), that person shall be guilty of an offence, and shall be liable—

I am aware recently of a women in St Andrews being caught under the influence and had her young daughter in the car when she was stopped.

She was charged with the drink driving and the above offence. She pled guilty to both the offences. The child wasn't taken from her but had to liaise with the Social services etc on a regular basis for a period of time.

I really do hope the person or person(s) responsible for this get caught and dealt with accordingly.

[Twa Cairpets]

Really so it's simply 'not best practice' to leave a 3 yo alone while you go next door for a bevy and a scran. Wow.

Totally agree on the points regarding keeping the issue in the public eye, who wouldn't do that.

No doubt the mccanns are suffering and I'm not sure what punishment could be given to them that is more painful than the one they must face every day they wake up but none the less the pseudo acceptance of leaving such a young child alone so frequently because you believe it happens millions of times at home and on holiday is wrong I suggest.

I would also suggest that you are wrong to suggest that it is so common place...I know of no parent, myself included that would ever countenance regularly leaving such a young child so often. I wouldn't do it now with my 9 yo no matter a bloomin' yo. Totally unacceptable in my book.

C'mon - you're better than that SiMar - that's a Quote mine re the "best practice". The critical part was that it wasn't cruel or evil or active neglect - these are not child abusers in any sense of the word. They made a mistake that has had an terrible, almost inconceivably awful outcome.

I'm not saying there actions were good. I'm saying that the attitudes of TQM, for example, and his desire to jail them FFS is utterly disproportionate to what they did, never mind what the consequence of their action was.

As for common place? I don't know. My kids are older now so have more freedom, and I don't recall leaving them alone as toddlers. However. if anyone claims they've never done anything stupid around their kids they're a better person than me. Here's a few things that I suspect most people with children could perm at least one from: Been drunk around the kids? Left them in a room to play where there are things that could injure them? Broken the speed limit or driven dangerously with a kid in the back? Driven them on a Saturday morning while still maybe a bit gentle from the night before? Taken your eye of them chatting to someone in a shop? Smoked in the same room as then?

My argument isn't particularly in defending the McCanns, its in challenging the utter lack of any compassion and holier-than-thou attitudes of people who for some reason have what appears to be an agenda of real hate against these people.

[Miguel]

The McCanns were unwise, but we all make mistakes and their 'sentence' is way out of proportion to any alleged 'crime' commited.
My great uncle and two great aunts were abducted and their Dad left no stone unturned in trying, unsuccessfully sadly, to get them back - anyone would do the same.

[Hibbyradge]

Regardless of my personal feelings about this, I don't think a prosecution for neglect would stand up in court anyway.

The prosecution would have to prove that the parents "wilfully abandoned" their children.

The parents were 50 yards away and checked on their sleeping children every hour.

It may have been unwise, but it wasn't not wilful abandonment.

If it did go to court, we'd end up with legal arguments and then rulings about how far a parent should be from a child's bed and how often they should be checked upon.

Can you imagine?

Is it neglect to go next door if you live in a detached house?

Is it ok to cut the grass?

Is it neglect to watch a 3 hour film in the livingroom?

What about leaving a child in a hotel bedroom?

If anyone has ever been to Las Vegas with a young child, it's highly likely that they left their sleeping child a lot further away from them than 50 yards.

Minefield.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

i suspect, have a problem with them being middle class and successful.

Thats absolutely ridiculous, as well as lacking any substance as far as this thread is concerned. Nobody would even have heard of them if they had shown a bit more concern for their kids' welfare.

[marinello59]

Thats absolutely ridiculous, as well as lacking any substance as far as this thread is concerned. Nobody would even have heard of them if they had shown a bit more concern for their kids' welfare.

Really? Read post number 4 for starters. Then there are a few posts suggesting that they are getting special treatment compared to poorer kids/junkies kids etc.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Is that people having a problem with their perceived status or otherwise? If so, I stand corrected, I very much doubt that is the gist of the post you mentioned though.

[marinello59]

Is that people having a problem with their perceived status or otherwise? If so, I stand corrected, I very much doubt that is the gist of the post you mentioned though.

It's not the only post where the fact they are middle class is mentioned though is it? Their status has been used as a stick to beat them further with.

[stoneyburn hibs]

It's not the only post where the fact they are middle class is mentioned though is it? Their status has been used as a stick to beat them further with.

I certainly don't have a problem with them being middle class as you have suggested .

[RyeSloan]

C'mon - you're better than that SiMar - that's a Quote mine re the "best practice". The critical part was that it wasn't cruel or evil or active neglect - these are not child abusers in any sense of the word. They made a mistake that has had an terrible, almost inconceivably awful outcome. I'm not saying there actions were good. I'm saying that the attitudes of TQM, for example, and his desire to jail them FFS is utterly disproportionate to what they did, never mind what the consequence of their action was. As for common place? I don't know. My kids are older now so have more freedom, and I don't recall leaving them alone as toddlers. However. if anyone claims they've never done anything stupid around their kids they're a better person than me. Here's a few things that I suspect most people with children could perm at least one from: Been drunk around the kids? Left them in a room to play where there are things that could injure them? Broken the speed limit or driven dangerously with a kid in the back? Driven them on a Saturday morning while still maybe a bit gentle from the night before? Taken your eye of them chatting to someone in a shop? Smoked in the same room as then? My argument isn't particularly in defending the McCanns, its in challenging the utter lack of any compassion and holier-than-thou attitudes of people who for some reason have what appears to be an agenda of real hate against these people.

Of course people do stupid things but leaving a 3 yo alone in a house on their own is more than just day to day daftness...it's bloody dangerous that's why the vast majority of people don't do it. Even more so in a foreign country.

Not seen too many people on here claiming they should be jailed for what they did but I do see their point in saying that the parents to some degree are culpable.

To be honest I'm not bothered about the semantics of what they did...it was certainly more than not best practice but I would stop short of evil. Simple fact is though that the kids should never have been WILLINGLY left alone, period.

[allmodcons]

This - have to agree with 6-2, stoney and silver also on this. Neglect is neglect, and it is an offence in my view.

The bad news for you is that 'neglect' in itself isn't a crime. I noticed that your opening post used the term 'wilful neglect'. This, of course, is just complete nonsense, in criminal-law statutes, 'wilful' would ordinarily mean with a bad purpose or criminal intent so, ultimately, the McCanns could not have been tried in criminal case.

That aside, I can see you've got an issue with the McCanns and would simply ask you, as a parent, where is your compassion?

[Aldo]

The bad news for you is that 'neglect' in itself isn't a crime. I noticed that your opening post used the term 'wilful neglect'. This, of course, is just complete nonsense, in criminal-law statutes, 'wilful' would ordinarily mean with a bad purpose or criminal intent so, ultimately, the McCanns could not have been tried in criminal case. That aside, I can see you've got an issue with the McCanns and would simply ask you, as a parent, where is your compassion?

Thing is it's all about perception. If you look at my post above and see the bit about them being wilfully assaulted blah blah or exposed. They left 3 children ... Not just one in the apartment that they couldn't see in their own.

That in itself for me exposes them to danger.

They even admitted to ignoring a comment from Maddie relating to her brother crying and she couldn't find them.... Yet they chose to continue to go out that night. That is wrong in my book very wrong.

yes the person that took them is a beast and must be caught and brought to justice but this would never of happened had they been with their children in the first place.

Yes hindsight is a great thing but to leave a 3yo and younger twins in a room on their own/out of sight and in a foreign country is inexcusable IMHO.

[brian6-2]

Thing is it's all about perception. If you look at my post above and see the bit about them being wilfully assaulted blah blah or exposed. They left 3 children ... Not just one in the apartment that they couldn't see in their own.

That in itself for me exposes them to danger.

They even admitted to ignoring a comment from Maddie relating to her brother crying and she couldn't find them.... Yet they chose to continue to go out that night. That is wrong in my book very wrong.

yes the person that took them is a beast and must be caught and brought to justice but this would never of happened had they been with their children in the first place.

Yes hindsight is a great thing but to leave a 3yo and younger twins in a room on their own/out of sight and in a foreign country is inexcusable IMHO.

its the parents on this thread calling for compassion, compassion comes hand in hand with being a parent but then again so does common sense. common sense that was blatantly missing from kate and gerry mccann the night they left a 3 year old in a hotel, alone, in another country. nothing compassionate about that whatsoever. no common sense about that whatsoever.

what gets me is out of all the tv appearances they make no-one has ever asked them outright what was going through their heads that made them leave a toddler alone.

[Lucius Apuleius]

Holiday camps in the 80s and 90s, don't know about now as this was the last time I went to any, actively encouraged you to leave the kids sleeping and go out and enjoy yourself. They provided the "checks" on the kids every hour? Thousand upon thousands did it, and a wee bitty more than 50 metres away.

[Aldo]

its the parents on this thread calling for compassion, compassion comes hand in hand with being a parent but then again so does common sense. common sense that was blatantly missing from kate and gerry mccann the night they left a 3 year old in a hotel, alone, in another country. nothing compassionate about that whatsoever. no common sense about that whatsoever. what gets me is out of all the tv appearances they make no-one has ever asked them outright what was going through their heads that made them leave a toddler alone.


I am a parent and have 2 daughters - 4yo and 9yo. They are our responsibility and it was us the decided to have kids so we have the responsibility to look after them and to make sure they are safe and kept out of harms way.

On our summer holiday my wife and I took it in turns to take our youngest to bed whilst the other stayed out with our eldest. Not great but kept everyone happy.

I cannot get round the fact that Maddie had told them her brother had been crying and no one was there yet... They still went out that night leaving them alone.

[IWasThere2016]

The bad news for you is that 'neglect' in itself isn't a crime. I noticed that your opening post used the term 'wilful neglect'. This, of course, is just complete nonsense, in criminal-law statutes, 'wilful' would ordinarily mean with a bad purpose or criminal intent so, ultimately, the McCanns could not have been tried in criminal case.

That aside, I can see you've got an issue with the McCanns and would simply ask you, as a parent, where is your compassion?

They may have been acquitted of course - but to have no cricimal charges to answer is unacceptable IMHO.

Having watched a pal bury his daughter last month I have compassion for those parents meriting it. Any compassion I have is for that poor child - who is in my mind certainly dead.

The very bottom line is if the McCanns had been dutiful parents and with their children on the night in question none of this would be relevant.

[IWasThere2016]

I am a parent and have 2 daughters - 4yo and 9yo. They are our responsibility and it was us the decided to have kids so we have the responsibility to look after them and to make sure they are safe and kept out of harms way.

On our summer holiday my wife and I took it in turns to take our youngest to bed whilst the other stayed out with our eldest. Not great but kept everyone happy.

I cannot get round the fact that Maddie had told them her brother had been crying and no one was there yet... They still went out that night leaving them alone.

:agree: Some very interesting information here - the McCanns tried and failed to shut this page down, and won't take legal action .. Wonder why? Maybe the sections re police dogs, lie detector tests, media contact etc etc woyldn't quite be what they want people to hear.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/507450985946255

[LALthehibeeGAL]

I am not defending their actions in leaving their daughter alone. It was a tragic error of judgement. They could not and would not have foreseen that evil would visit their apartment that night though. I simply couldn't contemplate that happening to my own kids. The online hate campaigns against the McCann's over the years have one thing in common, a refusal to condemn the monster who actually entered that room and abducted a young child. It's all their fault apparently.
But let's pretend I agree with you that the McCann's should be charged with neglect. What do you suggest happens to them? Have their other kids forcibly taken in to care whilst they serve a jail term. And maybe yourself and all the other perfect parents in the country could wait outside the court to shout some abuse? Would that be revenge enough because it seems to be all about a need to punish this tortured couple further.

Well said -
Up until now I have reserved judgement but I have to agree with this post in particular the bit in bold - you can blame them all you want and they are having to live with that dreadful decision which is all ifs and buts - however the bottom line is - no-one has the right to enter a room and snatch a child however "easy" you say it may be. The biggest problem most people have is that it is always rearing it's head - but at the outset the McCanns said they would not let it lie - they would keep gong until they find closure - so they are true to their word - they are living a nightmare for what they did, and no I don't agree with it, but I know many times when I was on holiday how appalled I was that many, many, people do exactly what they did - of all different "classes" - I would not but have left my baby in the car unlocked whilst off paying for petrol etc. or outside in the pram whilst nipping into the shop - so there is none of us inocent totally but yes I know not the same but - the bottom line is - no-one has a right to snatch a child regardless of how easy it was for them - at the moment that person or persons has got off scott free - the McCanns have not and never will and should they ever be lucky enough to find out what happened I am pretty sure their "mistake" will not go unpusnished but at the moment the priority is finding their little girl and they will do everything - which they always said they will do. Can we not at least respect that instead of slating them for doing wrong which they are fully aware of and are most certainly being punished in the most awful way.

lal:wink:

[haagsehibby]

Is it just me or does the new e-fit not look like Gerry McCann ? Which kind of shows how generic it is.

[JimBHibees]

:agree: Some very interesting information here - the McCanns tried and failed to shut this page down, and won't take legal action .. Wonder why? Maybe the sections re police dogs, lie detector tests, media contact etc etc woyldn't quite be what they want people to hear.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/507450985946255

Too busy trying to find their daughter?

[Jay]

I've read Kate McCanns book. One of the most harrowing books I've read, in fact I couldn't finish it. So many little things came together to make this big thing happen, obviously the single biggest mistake was leaving the kids alone.They had a false sense of security, on holiday, with friends, in a family friendly resort at a quiet time of the year. There was an adult walking past the room about every 15 minutes checking on one or other set of the kids. A couple of nights one of them hadn't gone to dinner as the kids had been unsettled or they hadn't felt well.The group had booked that same table for the duration of their stay as it was closest to their room, the hotel staff left that book open and available for anybody to see. It's an horrific mistake they have to wake up to every morning of their lives but they, and their daughter, are the victims not the perpetrator.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[steakbake]

Is it just me or does the new e-fit not look like Gerry McCann ? Which kind of shows how generic it is.

Or accurate...??

[IWasThere2016]

Well said -
Up until now I have reserved judgement but I have to agree with this post in particular the bit in bold - you can blame them all you want and they are having to live with that dreadful decision which is all ifs and buts - however the bottom line is - no-one has the right to enter a room and snatch a child however "easy" you say it may be. The biggest problem most people have is that it is always rearing it's head - but at the outset the McCanns said they would not let it lie - they would keep gong until they find closure - so they are true to their word - they are living a nightmare for what they did, and no I don't agree with it, but I know many times when I was on holiday how appalled I was that many, many, people do exactly what they did - of all different "classes" - I would not but have left my baby in the car unlocked whilst off paying for petrol etc. or outside in the pram whilst nipping into the shop - so there is none of us inocent totally but yes I know not the same but - the bottom line is - no-one has a right to snatch a child regardless of how easy it was for them - at the moment that person or persons has got off scott free - the McCanns have not and never will and should they ever be lucky enough to find out what happened I am pretty sure their "mistake" will not go unpusnished but at the moment the priority is finding their little girl and they will do everything - which they always said they will do. Can we not at least respect that instead of slating them for doing wrong which they are fully aware of and are most certainly being punished in the most awful way.

lal:wink:

The McCanns have been anything but true to their word .. Early offers of lie detectors retracted, telling the (British) Police the sniffer dogs had it wrong etc. Traces of blood, drugging of kids, timelines, doors locked/unlocked etc.. Their story has changed repeatedly. A trial woyld have helped establish some facts and revealed more than the McCanns want others to know IMHO.

[marinello59]

The McCanns have been anything but true to their word .. Early offers of lie detectors retracted, telling the (British) Police the sniffer dogs had it wrong etc. Traces of blood, drugging of kids, timelines, doors locked/unlocked etc.. Their story has changed repeatedly. A trial woyld have helped establish some facts and revealed more than the McCanns want others to know IMHO.

So now we get to your real motivation for starting the thread. It's a chance for you to regurgitate the same mean spirited spiteful half baked and dishonest theories circulating on twitter/facebook etc which somehow 'prove' that the McCann's actually harmed their daughter themselves. Fill your boots TQM, you can't reason with somebody who has judged them and already found them guilty.

[SneakersO'Toole]

The McCanns have been anything but true to their word .. Early offers of lie detectors retracted, telling the (British) Police the sniffer dogs had it wrong etc. Traces of blood, drugging of kids, timelines, doors locked/unlocked etc.. Their story has changed repeatedly. A trial woyld have helped establish some facts and revealed more than the McCanns want others to know IMHO.

A pathetic and quite disgraceful post.

A little, defenseless girl has been abducted from her parents and in all probability is dead and all you can spout about is unfounded, unproven p!sh and wind. Irrespective of the circumstances that has caused this, we are talking about another persons life here, not to the mention the devastating effect it has had on her family.

Grow up man!

[Jay]

Kate McCann touches on the drugs bit in the book. She said it wasn't until the next day it dawned on them that through all the hysteria, screaming, shouting and noise that the twins didn't wake up. It was too late by then to see if they had been drugged but it has always been a question they felt needed answered too.


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[Scouse Hibee]

I am a parent and have 2 daughters - 4yo and 9yo. They are our responsibility and it was us the decided to have kids so we have the responsibility to look after them and to make sure they are safe and kept out of harms way.

On our summer holiday my wife and I took it in turns to take our youngest to bed whilst the other stayed out with our eldest. Not great but kept everyone happy.

I cannot get round the fact that Maddie had told them her brother had been crying and no one was there yet... They still went out that night leaving them alone.

:agree: This beggars belief, though going on last nights showing it seemed to be normal for the entire group of friends to leave their children unattended while they enjoyed their holiday nights to the full. A decision the McCann's will no doubt regret for the rest of their lives.

[LALthehibeeGAL]

I really cannot undertand some people - the key factor here is to help find the little girl irrespective of the circumstances anyone would think that the McCanns are the only ones who committed a crime - and it is okay for the abductor(s) to do what they did cos well they left her on her own!!! - I think the main thing here is to concentrate on the future and finding her (Unlikely perhaps) but whilst people bicker about the McCanns someone(s) is at large rubbing their hands thinking well I've got away scott free after all it is okay to take a lovely girl from her holiday apartment. If we move forward and actually try and assist and help whilst people keep drudging through that happened we will never get very far - at the end of the day they only want to find out what happened to their daughter they, me, we do not need reminding of how it all happened. If they ever do get her back dead or alive then is the time perhaps to ask questions in the meantime someone is still at large abducting children and apparently that is okay!!!

And no I am not a friend or anything and my first words all they years ago were along the lines of "what idiots leaving their child alone abroad" but I have moved on we can't change what happened only try and fix it as best we can - it won't be fixed if you keep looking at the same thing all the time! I just wish people would look ahead instead of looking back all the time. They cannot change what happened only learn from it and - it appears only they (the apparent parents who don't care!) are interested in finding her.

Lal:wink:

[steakbake]

I don't really understand why it is felt to be especially 'bad' to leave your kids abroad, as it might seem at home. Do bad things only happen abroad?

Either way, it's not great but I'd be interested to know why folks feel
'abroad' is somehow more dangerous or reckless or why home seems to be less so?

[Scouse Hibee]

I really cannot undertand some people - the key factor here is to help find the little girl irrespective of the circumstances anyone would think that the McCanns are the only ones who committed a crime - and it is okay for the abductor(s) to do what they did cos well they left her on her own!!! - I think the main thing here is to concentrate on the future and finding her (Unlikely perhaps) but whilst people bicker about the McCanns someone(s) is at large rubbing their hands thinking well I've got away scott free after all it is okay to take a lovely girl from her holiday apartment. If we move forward and actually try and assist and help whilst people keep drudging through that happened we will never get very far - at the end of the day they only want to find out what happened to their daughter they, me, we do not need reminding of how it all happened. If they ever do get her back dead or alive then is the time perhaps to ask questions in the meantime someone is still at large abducting children and apparently that is okay!!!

And no I am not a friend or anything and my first words all they years ago were along the lines of "what idiots leaving their child alone abroad" but I have moved on we can't change what happened only try and fix it as best we can - it won't be fixed if you keep looking at the same thing all the time! I just wish people would look ahead instead of looking back all the time. They cannot change what happened only learn from it and - it appears only they (the apparent parents who don't care!) are interested in finding her.

Lal:wink:


I think you'll find that we all wish she is found or at least the person responsible is found and brought to justice.
The Police have made progress by looking back which has helped them to reavaluate the timeline for her disappearance.

The reconstruction last night brought it all back to a lot of people so of course there will be an outpouring of disbelief from many about the children being left alone at such a young age, there's nothing wrong with people expressing themselves or being outraged at that.

[Mon Dieu4]

Sadly i don't think they will find her, i know its happened in other scenarios where people have turned up, but in this instance the amount of media its had and her face being all over the world means to me that her abducter would realise there is too much heat and has probably just got rid of her

its an absolutely disgusting thought to have but it makes the most sense to me

i don't blame her folks in the slightest for keeping this in the media and doing everything they can to keep it in the media spotlight, what else would you do if it was your child

they are paying the ultimate price for their, well id like to say naivety but it was down right ****ing stupid and irresponsible behaviour

As i said earlier i genuinely can't believe folk would leave toddlers in the first place, but if your child asks where you were when they were crying, then id like to think at least the guilt alone in that would make you stay with them and not leave them alone again

[Jonnyboy]

The McCanns have been anything but true to their word .. Early offers of lie detectors retracted, telling the (British) Police the sniffer dogs had it wrong etc. Traces of blood, drugging of kids, timelines, doors locked/unlocked etc.. Their story has changed repeatedly. A trial woyld have helped establish some facts and revealed more than the McCanns want others to know IMHO.

And in posting this you confirm what I suspected from your OP. The McCann's are guilty - end of.

No mention of the abductor anywhere. Not something you want to discuss because you're too focused on attacking the parents.

Am both surprised anbd disappointed in you TQM though I doubt that'll bother you any

[IWasThere2016]

So now we get to your real motivation for starting the thread. It's a chance for you to regurgitate the same mean spirited spiteful half baked and dishonest theories circulating on twitter/facebook etc which somehow 'prove' that the McCann's actually harmed their daughter themselves. Fill your boots TQM, you can't reason with somebody who has judged them and already found them guilty.

I live with myself - content that I wouldn't have made the jury :wink:

Had the McCanns been fit parents they'd be none of this.

Fundamentally proving they were and will also be in the wrong. Neglect. Selfishness and now guilt - Kate even splaffing on Crimewatch that 'they did nothing wrong' - she say that forever to ease her guilt.

[RyeSloan]

I think you'll find that we all wish she is found or at least the person responsible is found and brought to justice. The Police have made progress by looking back which has helped them to reavaluate the timeline for her disappearance. The reconstruction last night brought it all back to a lot of people so of course there will be an outpouring of disbelief from many about the children being left alone at such a young age, there's nothing wrong with people expressing themselves or being outraged at that.

Good post. Sums up my thoughts well.

[RyeSloan]

Kate McCann touches on the drugs bit in the book. She said it wasn't until the next day it dawned on them that through all the hysteria, screaming, shouting and noise that the twins didn't wake up. It was too late by then to see if they had been drugged but it has always been a question they felt needed answered too. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Not read the book but I find this very strange.

Surely one if the first things you do is check that the other two kids are ok...?

[Beefster]

A pathetic and quite disgraceful post.

A little, defenseless girl has been abducted from her parents and in all probability is dead and all you can spout about is unfounded, unproven p!sh and wind. Irrespective of the circumstances that has caused this, we are talking about another persons life here, not to the mention the devastating effect it has had on her family.

Grow up man!


So now we get to your real motivation for starting the thread. It's a chance for you to regurgitate the same mean spirited spiteful half baked and dishonest theories circulating on twitter/facebook etc which somehow 'prove' that the McCann's actually harmed their daughter themselves. Fill your boots TQM, you can't reason with somebody who has judged them and already found them guilty.

IN TQM's defence, AFAIK most of the 'rumours' about the McCann case have originated from the public release of the police files in Portugal.

[marinello59]

IN TQM's defence, AFAIK most of the 'rumours' about the McCann case have originated from the public release of the police files in Portugal.

Which were gleefully printed as 'fact' by the Daily Mail and embellished and magnified on Twitter etc. I may be wrong but didn't the red tops have to do a large amount of backtracking?

[Jay]

Not read the book but I find this very strange.

Surely one if the first things you do is check that the other two kids are ok...?

They did check on them, iirc one of the other mums stayed with them while they all went searching. I wouldn't think the first thing they would think of was to check if they'd been drugged, just seeing them there and breathing would have been enough to let them go searching for Maddie.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[IWasThere2016]

A pathetic and quite disgraceful post.

A little, defenseless girl has been abducted from her parents and in all probability is dead and all you can spout about is unfounded, unproven p!sh and wind. Irrespective of the circumstances that has caused this, we are talking about another persons life here, not to the mention the devastating effect it has had on her family.

Grow up man!

Dear God. I didn't present the page as fact - but it does concord with a lot of the evidence (widely available on the net).

And I feel all grown up thanks.

To detach the McCanns from blame, and for them to proclaim their innocence is sickening to me. They were culpable - jointly repsonsible for the neglect and failure to safeguard their children - a fundemental responsibility of any able parent. I still cannot see how they should not be on trial personally.

The abducter should be hanging from a noose. I'm sure he and any associates have killed Maddie (particularly given the publicity and how identifiable Maddie was from her eye mark).

[IWasThere2016]

IN TQM's defence, AFAIK most of the 'rumours' about the McCann case have originated from the public release of the police files in Portugal.

Yup. Info is widely available, and much of it presents - not surprisingly - very different accounts than that of the McCanns and their party of friends.

I suspect we'll never know the truth as the poor wee thing won't return and I'm not sure a capture/prosecution of the abducter is near either.

[SneakersO'Toole]

Dear God. I didn't present the page as fact - but it does concord with a lot of the evidence (widely available on the net).

And I feel all grown up thanks.

To detach the McCanns from blame, and for them to proclaim their innocence is sickening to me. They were culpable - jointly repsonsible for the neglect and failure to safeguard their children - a fundemental responsibility of any able parent. I still cannot see how they should not be on trial personally.

The abducter should be hanging from a noose. I'm sure he and any associates have killed Maddie (particularly given the publicity and how identifiable Maddie was from her eye mark).

Im sure that deep down the McCanns more than anyone know of their own failings.

What angers me greatly is that you and thousands others think its okay to attack and gleefully remind them of this rather than focus on what is important which is finding closure to this horrific event. I dispair at this culture we have in society that reflects a 'hollier than thou' attitude as if some people are the model citizen/parent which in turns thinks it gives them right to criticise at every turn.

You have absolutely no clue what these people are going through and the catastrophic effect it has had on their lives but you and others are happy to sit at your computer desks, update your twitters and comment like you are perfect in every respect. I think that is pathetic and a sad reflection of society today. Compassion and humility are gone - outspoken and self righteous rules! As I say, very sad!

[Phil D. Rolls]

They should not have left the child on her own. Impossible to judge what sort of people they were, as their lives have changed forever. I wonder if the publicity generated helped or hindered the enquiry. Also, the treatment meted out to the Portugese cops was outrageous.

[RyeSloan]

They did check on them, iirc one of the other mums stayed with them while they all went searching. I wouldn't think the first thing they would think of was to check if they'd been drugged, just seeing them there and breathing would have been enough to let them go searching for Maddie. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Who knows I suppose but I'm pretty sure if I knew an intruder had been in the room and one if my kids were missing id be doing more than just a running check on the two toddlers...even more so if they were rather strangely sleeping through what sounds like a bit of mayhem.

It's a strange case this...so much emotion, so much tragedy yet none the less there is something about the whole story that just doesn't feel right to me. Maybe it is just the logic of parents leaving 3 young kids alone that I can't grasp but whatever it is it leaves me with an uneasy feeling that for some reason the events as described by the mccanns are not entirely accurate.

[allmodcons]

:agree: Some very interesting information here - the McCanns tried and failed to shut this page down, and won't take legal action .. Wonder why? Maybe the sections re police dogs, lie detector tests, media contact etc etc woyldn't quite be what they want people to hear.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/507450985946255

**** me TQM you really are turning this into an embarrassing thread. Your own little witch hunt supported by 'interesting' information on facebook!!

[Jonnyboy]

Im sure that deep down the McCanns more than anyone know of their own failings.

What angers me greatly is that you and thousands others think its okay to attack and gleefully remind them of this rather than focus on what is important which is finding closure to this horrific event. I dispair at this culture we have in society that reflects a 'hollier than thou' attitude as if some people are the model citizen/parent which in turns thinks it gives them right to criticise at every turn.

You have absolutely no clue what these people are going through and the catastrophic effect it has had on their lives but you and others are happy to sit at your computer desks, update your twitters and comment like you are perfect in every respect. I think that is pathetic and a sad reflection of society today. Compassion and humility are gone - outspoken and self righteous rules! As I say, very sad!

This 100%

[Jay]

Who knows I suppose but I'm pretty sure if I knew an intruder had been in the room and one if my kids were missing id be doing more than just a running check on the two toddlers...even more so if they were rather strangely sleeping through what sounds like a bit of mayhem.

It's a strange case this...so much emotion, so much tragedy yet none the less there is something about the whole story that just doesn't feel right to me. Maybe it is just the logic of parents leaving 3 young kids alone that I can't grasp but whatever it is it leaves me with an uneasy feeling that for some reason the events as described by the mccanns are not entirely accurate.

I would imagine any logic would fly out the window the second you realise she is missing. I also think the immediate concerns would be that she had wandered! Not that someone had taken her. None of the adults, police, people searching noticed the wee ones sleeping, I don't think they were comatosed all night. It was in the hours/days that followed that it was mentioned but toddlers can often sleep through noise anyway so it was probably borne out of the accusations flying around at the time, especially as they were doctors. Who knows? I can't even begin to imagine the panic running through them at the time.


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[HUTCHYHIBBY]

A pathetic and quite disgraceful post.

A little, defenseless girl has been abducted from her parents and in all probability is dead and all you can spout about is unfounded, unproven p!sh and wind. Irrespective of the circumstances that has caused this, we are talking about another persons life here, not to the mention the devastating effect it has had on her family.

Grow up man!

She wasnt abducted from her parents, she was abducted from a room lacking in adult supervision.

[LALthehibeeGAL]

Im sure that deep down the McCanns more than anyone know of their own failings.

What angers me greatly is that you and thousands others think its okay to attack and gleefully remind them of this rather than focus on what is important which is finding closure to this horrific event. I dispair at this culture we have in society that reflects a 'hollier than thou' attitude as if some people are the model citizen/parent which in turns thinks it gives them right to criticise at every turn.

You have absolutely no clue what these people are going through and the catastrophic effect it has had on their lives but you and others are happy to sit at your computer desks, update your twitters and comment like you are perfect in every respect. I think that is pathetic and a sad reflection of society today. Compassion and humility are gone - outspoken and self righteous rules! As I say, very sad!

:agree:

lal

[LALthehibeeGAL]

[QUOTE=Mrs. S;3771890]I would imagine any logic would fly out the window the second you realise she is missing. I also think the immediate concerns would be that she had wandered! Not that someone had taken her. None of the adults, police, people searching noticed the wee ones sleeping, I don't think they were comatosed all night. It was in the hours/days that followed that it was mentioned but toddlers can often sleep through noise anyway so it was probably borne out of the accusations flying around at the time, especially as they were doctors. Who knows? I can't even begin to imagine the panic running through them at the time.


:agree:
Lal

[EH6 Hibby]

The McCanns have been anything but true to their word .. Early offers of lie detectors retracted, telling the (British) Police the sniffer dogs had it wrong etc. Traces of blood, drugging of kids, timelines, doors locked/unlocked etc.. Their story has changed repeatedly. A trial woyld have helped establish some facts and revealed more than the McCanns want others to know IMHO.

If the McCann's were responsible for some harm coming to Maddie, not by leaving her unattended, but by actually physically harming her themselves, why would they want to keep this story in the public eye? Surely they would rather people forgot about it. The more the story is investigated, the more chance someone will find out what they did.

FWIW I disagree with what they did but they were naive not guilty of neglect. I imagine the same sort of thing happens all over the country in summer when people have friends over for a BBQ, the kids will go to bed and the adults will stay out in the garden.

[IWasThere2016]

**** me TQM you really are turning this into an embarrassing thread. Your own little witch hunt supported by 'interesting' information on facebook!!

Sorry you're embarrassed - I'm certainly not.

I hope you didn't read that 'interresting' information in case it was all too much for you now.

[IWasThere2016]

So now we get to your real motivation for starting the thread. It's a chance for you to regurgitate the same mean spirited spiteful half baked and dishonest theories circulating on twitter/facebook etc which somehow 'prove' that the McCann's actually harmed their daughter themselves. Fill your boots TQM, you can't reason with somebody who has judged them and already found them guilty.

FTR, I only found the FB page after my OP. It was not the reason for my post.

I have no idea if the McCanns harmed their daughter - neither have you that they didn't.

The harm was the neglect.

Something they did for several nights - failing all three children and more so Maddie. But for their defence to be they did nothing wrong is lamentable and a hollow excuse for their actions. As stated previously, if they had been dutiful parents - and not selfish ones - there be no catastrophe to pour over.

I clearly have different parenting standards than others on here - thankfully a fair few also agree with me.

[Hibrandenburg]

I can't imagine what sort of grief the McCann's are going through and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But the victim here is Maddie and not the parents. FFS you do not leave a 3 year old alone out of sight and out of earshot for an hour or more, never ever ever!

The investigation needs to go on and no stone should be left unturned trying to get to the bottom of what happened to this poor wee helpless soul and if that means that Kate and Jerry McCann have to be put through the wringer again then so be it.

Somebody done something terrible that night and no one should be above the law when trying to get to the bottom of what happened to the victim. If the McCann's do come under the spotlight then that is down to their actions or lack of on that night and I'm afraid that's something they'll have to live with due to their neglect in the chain of events that led to what happened to Maddie.

3 year olds start fires with matches, fall out of windows, suffocate in plastic bags, get strangled on their clothing and die due to a thousand other things that no one could possibly foresee and that's why you never ever leave them alone and out of your area of control.

[RyeSloan]

I would imagine any logic would fly out the window the second you realise she is missing. I also think the immediate concerns would be that she had wandered! Not that someone had taken her. None of the adults, police, people searching noticed the wee ones sleeping, I don't think they were comatosed all night. It was in the hours/days that followed that it was mentioned but toddlers can often sleep through noise anyway so it was probably borne out of the accusations flying around at the time, especially as they were doctors. Who knows? I can't even begin to imagine the panic running through them at the time. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Aye fair point....we'll probably never know what really happened and tragically we'll probably never see the poor lass again no matter what.

[Jay]

I can't imagine what sort of grief the McCann's are going through and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But the victim here is Maddie and not the parents. FFS you do not leave a 3 year old alone out of sight and out of earshot for an hour or more, never ever ever!

The investigation needs to go on and no stone should be left unturned trying to get to the bottom of what happened to this poor wee helpless soul and if that means that Kate and Jerry McCann have to be put through the wringer again then so be it.

Somebody done something terrible that night and no one should be above the law when trying to get to the bottom of what happened to the victim. If the McCann's do come under the spotlight then that is down to their actions or lack of on that night and I'm afraid that's something they'll have to live with due to their neglect in the chain of events that led to what happened to Maddie.

3 year olds start fires with matches, fall out of windows, suffocate in plastic bags, get strangled on their clothing and die due to a thousand other things that no one could possibly foresee and that's why you never ever leave them alone and out of your area of control.

I agree 100% in that you never ever leave a wee one alone. So many things could have happened and unfortunately for them, and more so Maddie, something awful did happen but the McCanns weren't the only ones to leave their kids alone that night, or most nights that week. The whole party did it. Kate and Jerry are under fire because of what happened but I never hear about the other couples who did exactly the same thing.
What about Jamie Bulgers mum? She left him outside a shop in a shopping centre. I have never heard her criticized.
I'm not saying the McCanns are not without fault but I think they have been punished more than enough for their mistake.


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[haagsehibby]

For a mother desperately wanting to find out what happened, I find the following rather curious.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1041635/The-48-questions-Kate-McCann-wouldnt-answer--did.html

[marinello59]

For a mother desperately wanting to find out what happened, I find the following rather curious.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1041635/The-48-questions-Kate-McCann-wouldnt-answer--did.html

Dated 2008. Several newspapers apologised to the McCanns for the reporting around that period which they admitted was based on nothing more than gossip, innuendo and 'leaks' from the local police. The Daily Mail refused to apologise which makes them a bastion of truth to those happy to continue their internet hate campaigns.

[Beefster]

Dated 2008. Several newspapers apologised to the McCanns for the reporting around that period which they admitted was based on nothing more than gossip, innuendo and 'leaks' from the local police. The Daily Mail refused to apologise which makes them a bastion of truth to those happy to continue their internet hate campaigns.

The information in that article came from publicly released police transcripts (that I mentioned earlier) and was widely reported. I'd be surprised if anyone apologised for it.

[JimBHibees]

I don't really understand why it is felt to be especially 'bad' to leave your kids abroad, as it might seem at home. Do bad things only happen abroad?

Either way, it's not great but I'd be interested to know why folks feel
'abroad' is somehow more dangerous or reckless or why home seems to be less so?

I can only assume that the only reason would be because you would know less about the area than you might at home e.g the police were saying that there had been a spate of house break ins in the area which if known may have affected how the parents acted. If in your own area you would be much more likely to know about that sort of thing.

As for the reconstruction I thought it a bit contrived the almost relay like way parents were going and checking to me, that wouldnt have happened with the regularity that the parents were maintaining. Leaving window shutters, windows and patio doors open when you cant see the house is very careless to be honest. I think more than likely someone has tried to break in, the girl has saw them and the robber has panicked and took her. Unfortunately that scenario is unlikely to end up well IMO. The idea of a pre-planned abduction also doesnt fit IMO as you would have a car waiting rather than wandering through streets carrying a child IMO.

[JimBHibees]

FTR, I only found the FB page after my OP. It was not the reason for my post.

I have no idea if the McCanns harmed their daughter - neither have you that they didn't.

The harm was the neglect.

Something they did for several nights - failing all three children and more so Maddie. But for their defence to be they did nothing wrong is lamentable and a hollow excuse for their actions. As stated previously, if they had been dutiful parents - and not selfish ones - there be no catastrophe to pour over.

I clearly have different parenting standards than others on here - thankfully a fair few also agree with me.

I dont think they have ever said that and they admitted such in the interview on Monday.

[IWasThere2016]

I dont think they have ever said that and they admitted such in the interview on Monday.

Nope. Kate was quoted on the Beeb earlier this week saying they'd done nothing wrong.

[IWasThere2016]

And in posting this you confirm what I suspected from your OP. The McCann's are guilty - end of.

No mention of the abductor anywhere. Not something you want to discuss because you're too focused on attacking the parents.

Am both surprised anbd disappointed in you TQM though I doubt that'll bother you any

The clue was in the thread title - it was intended to be about the 'parents'.

[marinello59]

The clue was in the thread title - it was intended to be about the 'parents'.

So on a week when the focus was on trying to bring the search for this child further forward your main concern was not the child but throwing yet more mud at the parents.

[marinello59]

The information in that article came from publicly released police transcripts (that I mentioned earlier) and was widely reported. I'd be surprised if anyone apologised for it.

The manner of the reporting against the McCanns was apologised for by a couple of tabloids. If these events had happened in the UK would the papers have used police transcripts to insinuate that the McCanns were guilty of some wrong doing against their own child? Does the article mention who asked these questions? Was Kate McCann being treated as a suspect at the time? Were they all asked in one session? Have the questions asked and answers given ever been properly verified? I don't know the answers to any of that but it appears time and time again on the internet as proof that this couple have something more to hide.

[Scouse Hibee]

So on a week when the focus was on trying to bring the search for this child further forward your main concern was not the child but throwing yet more mud at the parents.


One and the same surely, some people may still have an opinion that the parents are implicated in her disappearance so it's only natural that in a week when we have been shown a reconstruction those feelings will be shared with others. Those throwing mud at the parents as you call it are just as keen to see this case resolved as those who aren't.

[Jay]

I can only assume that the only reason would be because you would know less about the area than you might at home e.g the police were saying that there had been a spate of house break ins in the area which if known may have affected how the parents acted. If in your own area you would be much more likely to know about that sort of thing.

As for the reconstruction I thought it a bit contrived the almost relay like way parents were going and checking to me, that wouldnt have happened with the regularity that the parents were maintaining. Leaving window shutters, windows and patio doors open when you cant see the house is very careless to be honest. I think more than likely someone has tried to break in, the girl has saw them and the robber has panicked and took her. Unfortunately that scenario is unlikely to end up well IMO. The idea of a pre-planned abduction also doesnt fit IMO as you would have a car waiting rather than wandering through streets carrying a child IMO.

They didn't leave anything open, the shutter was broken and they hadn't realised this. Again, maybe something they should have checked but hindsights a wonderful thing.


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[21.05.2016]

A terrible situation. The parents were very stupid to leave the kids alone, even if they were only near by and checking them every half hour/hour or so. Its a mistake they have to live with for the rest of their lives, they probably feel physically sick to the pit of their stomachs every day thinking about it. My heart breaks everytime i see them in media, they look absolutely broken, living every parents worse nightmare.

However, I really really don't think they were involved with whats happened to Maddie. So many people i've heard saying they think they have murdered her - I think thats utter nonsense. The grief and devastation seems completely genuine. And as for the folk going "awck well why didn't they take the other bairns" well if it was some kind of peodophile ring or something and this was a planned kidnapp, then obviously the family must have been watched, therefore the guys knews the McCanns were near by and they only had a short window to grab the child. Much easier for them to get in quickly and grab one child than to try and get in and make a quick get away with 3 or 4 kids, wouldn't be very sly.

Unfortunatly, I don't think they'll ever find the wee lassie but if they ever do, I just hope to god shes not too mentally scared. If it is some sick peadophile ring, then god knows what horrors she's been exposed too.

[lapsedhibee]

So many people i've heard saying they think they have murdered her - I think thats utter nonsense.

Is there any coherent explanation anywhere by those people of why the girl's parents might have wanted to harm her, or been implicated in harming her? Wot's their possible motives? Insurance? Book deal? Can't immediately think of anything that's not really far-fetched.

[marinello59]

Nope. Kate was quoted on the Beeb earlier this week saying they'd done nothing wrong.

That could be taken to mean that they are not the ones who did actual physical harm to their daughter. Couldn't it?

[21.05.2016]

Is there any coherent explanation anywhere by those people of why the girl's parents might have wanted to harm her, or been implicated in harming her? Wot's their possible motives? Insurance? Book deal? Can't immediately think of anything that's not really far-fetched.

There was a story ages ago that they gave her something to help her sleep but she took a reaction and died causing the parents to panic and try get rid of the body but both of the parents are medical doctors so 1) they would know what and what not to give a 4 year old child and 2) if she had taken a reaction to something, they would have known what to do or seeked further medical help rather than throw themselves into a huge panic as perhaps a parent with no medical knowledge or skils may have done.

Very strange as to why people would think they are involved, what possible motive could they have had to just randomly kill their 4 year old little girl on holiday. It's not like Karen Mathews where it was all just a big plot to reap reward money or that would have happened by now and if they did kill her, accidentally or not, then why would they invite the media to be on them so much.

[21.05.2016]

I saw a lot of people talking about how they looked "emotionless and shady" on crimewatch the other night. What do people expect them to be doing? Balling their eyes out? I'm sure they have done plenty of that over the last 6 years. What I saw was two completely broken people that are trying to be brave and do everything they can to find their little girl. Some people are so quick to bash and judge these people. Those parents are going through the absolute most horrendous form of hell.

[ancient hibee]

The person to blame is the one who took the child.

[JimBHibees]

Nope. Kate was quoted on the Beeb earlier this week saying they'd done nothing wrong.

Nope they said they would have done things differently when asked about leaving the kids and Gerry indicated there was no point looking back and Kate then said she had found it more difficult to think this way than Gerry.

[JimBHibees]

They didn't leave anything open, the shutter was broken and they hadn't realised this. Again, maybe something they should have checked but hindsights a wonderful thing.


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Was the patio door not open? How could the other parent check the kids then?

[IWasThere2016]

So on a week when the focus was on trying to bring the search for this child further forward your main concern was not the child but throwing yet more mud at the parents.

They ignored Police advice not to contact the media. They brought on the focus on them immediately.

I'm not convinced they played a part in Maddie's disappearence or (certain IMHO) death.

6 years on - as I did at the time - I believe they should be charged/subject of a trial.

[Jay]

Was the patio door not open? How could the other parent check the kids then?

I'm by no means an expert but I don't think so. I've never heard it. The other parents were only checking their own kids. AFAIK it was the broken shutter that had been opened and the intruder got in that way.


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[21.05.2016]

The focus should be to try and get this case back in the public eye and get people interested in the case. The aim to try and raise as much awarness as possible so that hopefully more information can come to light that can lead us further forward to finding the wee girl or at least finding out what happened and who is responsible. The aim is not to fling abuse and accussations towards the parents who IMO are innocent and instead of abusing them we should be supporting and sympathisisng with them, especially if your a parent, imagine it being one of your children. It's the absolute worst nightmare of any parent. YES, they made a terrible terrible mistake leaving the children alone but I believe that was out of naivety and a false sense of saftey and not being uncaring parents. They have to live with that decision every day, it will haunt them till the day they die.

[ancient hibee]

Is it not the case when Butlins was in its heyday that it was sold to families on the basis that you never had to see your children?They were put in the care of employees that you didn't know from Adam.The present day willingness to blame the victim for the crime is nauseating.At least we seem to have reduced that in rape cases but even now girls are accused of being provocative-as if that means that they deserve to be raped!

[stoneyburn hibs]

This is an open letter to the BBC regarding the Crimewatch program

http://whathappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2013/10/open-letter-re-proposed-crimewatch.html

[Jonnyboy]

They ignored Police advice not to contact the media. They brought on the focus on them immediately.

I'm not convinced they played a part in Maddie's disappearence or (certain IMHO) death.

6 years on - as I did at the time - I believe they should be charged/subject of a trial.

Which pretty much nails down what you're really on about. You're obsessed with bringing them to trial. Should all the other parents in their group also be brought to trial, given they did the same thing or is it just the McCann's you're out to get?

[Flo1898]

Maddie is on german tv tonight

Gesendet von meinem HTC Desire HD A9191 mit Tapatalk 2

[lapsedhibee]

This is an open letter to the BBC regarding the Crimewatch program

http://whathappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2013/10/open-letter-re-proposed-crimewatch.html






Interesting. But I would still like to hear a plausible motive for the McCanns 'covering up an accidental death' - why would they need to cover up an accident?

[blackpoolhibs]

The parents were really stupid for doing what they did, but their punishment has ruined their entire life for ever.

I dont see what putting them on trial, even if they were found guilty which i don't think they would be would achieve?

I wouldn't swap places with them for a lottery win.

[IWasThere2016]

Nope they said they would have done things differently when asked about leaving the kids and Gerry indicated there was no point looking back and Kate then said she had found it more difficult to think this way than Gerry.

Wrong again J -

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-10-14/kate-mccann-we-have-done-nothing-wrong/

Reported elsewhere also.

[IWasThere2016]

Which pretty much nails down what you're really on about. You're obsessed with bringing them to trial. Should all the other parents in their group also be brought to trial, given they did the same thing or is it just the McCann's you're out to get?

The others are as culpable of neglect also - only clearly more fortunate that their failings were not as dire as they were for Madeline McCann.

[Jay]

The others are as culpable of neglect also - only clearly more fortunate that their failings were not as dire as they were for Madeline McCann.

So does that mean because their kids weren't harmed they shouldn't be tried for the same crime? Again, what about Jamie Bulgers mum? Or Ben Needhams mum?


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[marinello59]

Wrong again J -

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-10-14/kate-mccann-we-have-done-nothing-wrong/

Reported elsewhere also.

The McCanns have repeatedly stated over the years how they regret their actions last night. Gerry McCann has stated emphatically that he blames himself/ Kate McCann has explained how it hard it is for her to manage the unbearable guilt she feels yet they can't allow themselves to be broken by it for the sake of their other children and most importantly for the sake of the daughter they still hope to find alive. They are well aware that to a large number of people they are hate figures because they left their daughter alone that night but have consistently pointed out that the major guilty party here is the person or persons who entered the apartment that night and took their child and that in this regard they have done nothing wrong. Wouldn't it be a reasonable assumption to make that Kate McCann was referring to this rather than, after all these years of saying otherwise, she has now decided to completely deny that anything they did that night was wrong?

[SneakersO'Toole]

The McCanns have repeatedly stated over the years how they regret their actions last night. Gerry McCann has stated emphatically that he blames himself/ Kate McCann has explained how it hard it is for her to manage the unbearable guilt she feels yet they can't allow themselves to be broken by it for the sake of their other children and most importantly for the sake of the daughter they still hope to find alive. They are well aware that to a large number of people they are hate figures because they left their daughter alone that night but have consistently pointed out that the major guilty party here is the person or persons who entered the apartment that night and took their child and that in this regard they have done nothing wrong. Wouldn't it be a reasonable assumption to make that Kate McCann was referring to this rather than, after all these years of saying otherwise, she has now decided to completely deny that anything they did that night was wrong?

Your wasting your energy. TQM demands 'justice' so that he can inflate his ego about how exemplary his own parental skills are.

[JimBHibees]

I'm by no means an expert but I don't think so. I've never heard it. The other parents were only checking their own kids. AFAIK it was the broken shutter that had been opened and the intruder got in that way.


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The reconstruction clearly showed a male parent saying he would check the McCann kids for her when Kate made a move to go and check.

[JimBHibees]

The McCanns have repeatedly stated over the years how they regret their actions last night. Gerry McCann has stated emphatically that he blames himself/ Kate McCann has explained how it hard it is for her to manage the unbearable guilt she feels yet they can't allow themselves to be broken by it for the sake of their other children and most importantly for the sake of the daughter they still hope to find alive. They are well aware that to a large number of people they are hate figures because they left their daughter alone that night but have consistently pointed out that the major guilty party here is the person or persons who entered the apartment that night and took their child and that in this regard they have done nothing wrong. Wouldn't it be a reasonable assumption to make that Kate McCann was referring to this rather than, after all these years of saying otherwise, she has now decided to completely deny that anything they did that night was wrong?

Agree they definitely discussed it in the interview with Kirsty Young.

[brian6-2]

The reconstruction clearly showed a male parent saying he would check the McCann kids for her when Kate made a move to go and check.

That will be one of the tapas 7 or whatever they were called, the same group of folk who have made about 400,000 grand out of the whole thing.

[CropleyWasGod]

That will be one of the tapas 7 or whatever they were called, the same group of folk who have made about 400,000 grand out of the whole thing.

400,000 grand? :greengrin

I think they donated their libel damages to the Find Madeleine Fund.

[Jay]

The reconstruction clearly showed a male parent saying he would check the McCann kids for her when Kate made a move to go and check.

Your right. You would have to assume he took the key. It would be interesting to hear the facts on that.



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[brian6-2]

400,000 grand? :greengrin

I think they donated their libel damages to the Find Madeleine Fund.

maybe a few hundred quid of it should have went on a parenting course for kate and gerry.

[IWasThere2016]

So does that mean because their kids weren't harmed they shouldn't be tried for the same crime? Again, what about Jamie Bulgers mum? Or Ben Needhams mum?


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The single most ridiculous thing I have ever read on .net

Please explain the comparisons to me:

Were either on the lash at the time of the abductions?

Did either repeatedly leave their kids unattended?

Bulger was in broad daylight, on CCTV, in his home town

I missed the bit about the Needhams having access to a creche in the farmhouse also..

[IWasThere2016]

The McCanns have repeatedly stated over the years how they regret their actions last night. Gerry McCann has stated emphatically that he blames himself/ Kate McCann has explained how it hard it is for her to manage the unbearable guilt she feels yet they can't allow themselves to be broken by it for the sake of their other children and most importantly for the sake of the daughter they still hope to find alive. They are well aware that to a large number of people they are hate figures because they left their daughter alone that night but have consistently pointed out that the major guilty party here is the person or persons who entered the apartment that night and took their child and that in this regard they have done nothing wrong. Wouldn't it be a reasonable assumption to make that Kate McCann was referring to this rather than, after all these years of saying otherwise, she has now decided to completely deny that anything they did that night was wrong?

Whilst also saying they've done nothing wrong. Clearly, neglect is all fine and dandy then.

[IWasThere2016]

Your wasting your energy. TQM demands 'justice' so that he can inflate his ego about how exemplary his own parental skills are.

Clearly of a different standard to a fair few on here thanks.

Don't neglect your children and the chances of harm greatly reduce. Simples :aok:

[marinello59]

Clearly of a different standard to a fair few on here thanks.

Don't neglect your children and the chances of harm greatly reduce. Simples :aok:

Wow.

[Jay]

The single most ridiculous thing I have ever read on .net

Please explain the comparisons to me:

Were either on the lash at the time of the abductions?

Did either repeatedly leave their kids unattended?

Bulger was in broad daylight, on CCTV, in his home town

I missed the bit about the Needhams having access to a creche in the farmhouse also..

Woah settle yersel there G.

Firstly to say the McCanns were on the lash is nothing but a way to intensify your argument of their guilt. They were out for a meal, maybe where you come from that's out on the lash but certainly not in my world.
How many times does it take? Repeatedly surely doesn't make them any more guilty? We don't actually know how many times Jamie and Ben were left unsupervised, it may well have been a regular occurrence.
Secondly, what difference does it make if you leave your toddler unattended in this country or abroad, in broad daylight or at night, if there's CCTV or not? I have never and will never blame Jamie Bulgers mum but if your claiming neglect on the McCanns part, how come leaving a toddler outside a shop by himself isn't neglect? Would you have done that? Is that okay then?
Thirdly, how come not having access to a crèche is a good excuse for leaving a toddler unsupervised in outside in a very rural area you didn't know nor did you know anybody? Again I would never blame these parents, I'm just wondering how you draw the line? All made huge errors in judgement and all have paid the ultimate price.


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[marinello59]

Whilst also saying they've done nothing wrong. Clearly, neglect is all fine and dandy then.

Why don't you read my post properly then reply to the point I clearly made?

[SneakersO'Toole]

Clearly of a different standard to a fair few on here thanks.

Wow. This response sums everything up for me with regards to your stance. You have spectacularly missed the point that many people on this thread are at aiming at you, either deliberately because you are at the wind up or more likely because you don't have the wherewithal to see past your own warped and self-righteous agenda.

I'm out.

[matty_f]

Many hotels offer a babysitter service where they essentially check on the kids every half hour/hour. A service that clearly is used by many parents. There's not a huge leap from that acceptable service to what the McCanns did.

The tapas bar is literally the other side of the swimming pool (breadth wise) from the back of the apartment. I know this because I stayed literally next door to the apartment about 4 weeks after the disappearance.

You would be further away in some hotel restaurants to your room than the McCanns were to the apartment.

The witch hunt against the 'parents' (why the inverted commas, I don't know TQM...) shows areal lack of ccompassion and humanity imho.

[lapsedhibee]

The witch hunt against the 'parents' (why the inverted commas, I don't know

Because that's quicker than typing out so-called every time? :dunno:

[IWasThere2016]

Thanks all.

It was neglect - they failed as parents (McCanns and pals). Them's the definitive facts for me.

My view then, now and tomorrow.

I don't need a lesson in compassion or humanity regardless of how often it's stated.

I hope they catch the culprit and I hope Maddie is alive - I sincerely have my doubts on both counts.

Cheers for noo.

[HH81]

I have read this thread and so many different opinions.

My take on this is I just think the parents know more than they are letting on.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Wow. This response sums everything up for me with regards to your stance. You have spectacularly missed the point that many people on this thread are at aiming at you, either deliberately because you are at the wind up or more likely because you don't have the wherewithal to see past your own warped and self-righteous agenda.

I'm out.

Harsh, I think a few people on this thread are letting their emotions cloud their judgement. I don't necessarily agree with TQMs proposition, but I think it's one that needs consideration. Calling his motives warped is a bit unfair.

If this had happened in the UK, particularly involving people of a lower social status, I'm not sure they would have had the same sympathy. I also wonder if people would be considering them fit to look after the other children.

Is it really that unreasonable to ask those questions?

[silverhibee]

I don't really understand why it is felt to be especially 'bad' to leave your kids abroad, as it might seem at home. Do bad things only happen abroad?

Either way, it's not great but I'd be interested to know why folks feel
'abroad' is somehow more dangerous or reckless or why home seems to be less so?

I would never intenionally leave my kids alone, back home or abroad, it's a big bad world out there nowadays and pretty hard to trust anyone, but to go on holiday and leave your kids unattended each night while you had a meal and drinks with friends is inexcusable, wtf were they thinking, did it never cross there minds that what they were doing is so wrong in the parenting guide book and put there kids first before going out with friends drinking.

Hope the abductors are brought to justice soon with the new information that has been shown in the press over the last few days.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Harsh, I think a few people on this thread are letting their emotions cloud their judgement. I don't necessarily agree with TQMs proposition, but I think it's one that needs consideration. Calling his motives warped is a bit unfair.

If this had happened in the UK, particularly involving people of a lower social status, I'm not sure they would have had the same sympathy. I also wonder if people would be considering them fit to look after the other children.

Is it really that unreasonable to ask those questions?

Not unreasonable in the slightest.

[Aldo]

Thanks all. It was neglect - they failed as parents (McCanns and pals). Them's the definitive facts for me. My view then, now and tomorrow. I don't need a lesson in compassion or humanity regardless of how often it's stated. I hope they catch the culprit and I hope Maddie is alive - I sincerely have my doubts on both counts. Cheers for noo.

I am with TQM on this one in respect that they exposed their kids to danger by leaving them alone in an apartment they couldn't even see and in a foreign country (I would be saying this even in this country).

They left them all that night even after Maddie told them whilst eating her dinner that her brother had been crying the previous nite and she couldn't find them and they didn't come (or words to that effect).

This is the bit I cannot get my head round. They should of faced a court hearing in Portugal but have suffered a worse fate. Their responsibility is their kids. ENDOF. Not out at the local Tapas restaurant having dinner whilst their kids are left unattended and unsupervised while their out eating drinking and socialising.

I have personally seen the outcome and fallout of kids getting left alone, taken into care and it doesn't bode well. It's also not fair on the kids... Who at the end of the day are the victims (probably too string a word).

This is not a witch hunt and yes the focus should be on Maddie but at the end of the day the parents should be questioned when and if necessary to establish what had taken place (the facts) and I wouldn't stop asking anyone connected (including parents/family/friends) until I had all the information I wanted to carry out a full and thorough investigation.

Me as a parent would expect some very difficult and not pleasant questions in order to establish the circumstances surrounding my missing child. I really do pray that Maddie is alive somewhere and is found in due course....

Once this happens the perpetrator is traced and bought to justice Anyone wishing to know how I have dealings in respect of similar things please PM me.

[ancient hibee]

Where on earth do you get the idea that the parents have never been questioned as to what happened from?The father was named as a suspect by the Poruguese police for goodness sake.

[Jonnyboy]

Clearly of a different standard to a fair few on here thanks.

Don't neglect your children and the chances of harm greatly reduce. Simples :aok:

Pompous p!sh. You're on a crusade and you know it.

Your answer to my last question was not a full answer but it gave me further insight into your mindset. What I saw there was pretty ugly.

You'll no doubt continue to defend your stance but contrary to what you suggest, your 'back up' on here is both minimal and ill informed

[Jonnyboy]

maybe a few hundred quid of it should have went on a parenting course for kate and gerry.

Aye very clever. Make you feel good getting that off your chest did it?

[Jonnyboy]

The single most ridiculous thing I have ever read on .net

Please explain the comparisons to me:

Were either on the lash at the time of the abductions?

Did either repeatedly leave their kids unattended?

Bulger was in broad daylight, on CCTV, in his home town

I missed the bit about the Needhams having access to a creche in the farmhouse also..

Using your own warped view that's an easy one. Both children were left unattended. I look forward to reading your campaign to have the parents put on trial

[Aldo]

Where on earth do you get the idea that the parents have never been questioned as to what happened from?The father was named as a suspect by the Poruguese police for goodness sake.

If that is directed at me read the post- they should be questioned when and if necessary / I didn't say they hadn't been questioned.

I would of thought that when and if new information arises they get asked/questioned to clarify points etc ambiguity to assist in the enquiry.

At no point did I say they hadn't been questioned

[Jonnyboy]

I am with TQM on this one in respect that they exposed their kids to danger by leaving them alone in an apartment they couldn't even see and in a foreign country (I would be saying this even in this country).

They left them all that night even after Maddie told them whilst eating her dinner that her brother had been crying the previous nite and she couldn't find them and they didn't come (or words to that effect).

This is the bit I cannot get my head round. They should of faced a court hearing in Portugal but have suffered a worse fate. Their responsibility is their kids. ENDOF. Not out at the local Tapas restaurant having dinner whilst their kids are left unattended and unsupervised while their out eating drinking and socialising.

I have personally seen the outcome and fallout of kids getting left alone, taken into care and it doesn't bode well. It's also not fair on the kids... Who at the end of the day are the victims (probably too string a word).

This is not a witch hunt and yes the focus should be on Maddie but at the end of the day the parents should be questioned when and if necessary to establish what had taken place (the facts) and I wouldn't stop asking anyone connected (including parents/family/friends) until I had all the information I wanted to carry out a full and thorough investigation.

Me as a parent would expect some very difficult and not pleasant questions in order to establish the circumstances surrounding my missing child. I really do pray that Maddie is alive somewhere and is found in due course....

Once this happens the perpetrator is traced and bought to justice Anyone wishing to know how I have dealings in respect of similar things please PM me.

Aldo, they were.

Do people really think the Met would divide so much time, experience and manpower if they thought the parents were somehow guilty?

[Jonnyboy]

If that is directed at me read the post- they should be questioned when and if necessary / I didn't say they hadn't been questioned.

I would of thought that when and if new information arises they get asked/questioned to clarify points etc ambiguity to assist in the enquiry.

At no point did I say they hadn't been questioned

Sorry mate I answered your first post as you posted your second.

I'm certain the McCann's will have faced questioning in the circumstances you describe

[Aldo]

Sorry mate I answered your first post as you posted your second. I'm certain the McCann's will have faced questioning in the circumstances you describe

J I know they would of and would of continued To of been answering questions until the authorities decided to stop the investigation. That's what would of happened in this country anyway.

Edit:- maybe should of said continually been questioned/or asked questions.

[Twa Cairpets]

Thanks all.

It was neglect - they failed as parents (McCanns and pals). Them's the definitive facts for me.

My view then, now and tomorrow.

I don't need a lesson in compassion or humanity regardless of how often it's stated.

I hope they catch the culprit and I hope Maddie is alive - I sincerely have my doubts on both counts.

Cheers for noo.

Actually, of all many, many things you've put on this thread that I disagree with on a very fundamental level, this is clearly and demonstrably the most wrong.

Your lack of compassion is, frankly, staggering.
Your pompous superiority complex, while I suspect is at least half trolling, is also I think what you actually believe to be true - that you are some type of uber parent and that for whatever reason the McCann's are evil incarnate.

Your utter lack of any feeling for the McCanns - that somehow they deserve to suffer and should be publicly punished for what you think they did so terribly, terribly wrong - in tandem with your claims of apparent personal parental infallibility I actually find slightly disturbing.

[IWasThere2016]

Actually, of all many, many things you've put on this thread that I disagree with on a very fundamental level, this is clearly and demonstrably the most wrong.

Your lack of compassion is, frankly, staggering.
Your pompous superiority complex, while I suspect is at least half trolling, is also I think what you actually believe to be true - that you are some type of uber parent and that for whatever reason the McCann's are evil incarnate.

Your utter lack of any feeling for the McCanns - that somehow they deserve to suffer and should be publicly punished for what you think they did so terribly, terribly wrong - in tandem with your claims of apparent personal parental infallibility I actually find slightly disturbing.

:faf: You're judging me for judging. And pompously calling me pompous.

Any way, Water aff a duck's

I love the compassion line - how can I have compassion for a decision which is alien to me? A decision to leave your children unsupervised, apparently full of calpol, while drinking - this when there was a sitting service available - this is abhorent to me.

The problem was at source - absent, neglectful parents .. If the McCanns had been present their child would have been safe. It really is that simple. They failed their daughter - they are partly responsible IMHO.

[IWasThere2016]

PS - thanks for the various supportive PMs .. You know who you are. Much appreciated.

[Jay]

Apparently full of calpol? This is based on what?


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[IWasThere2016]

Apparently full of calpol? This is based on what?


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Comments from Kate McCann's parents (father I think) about use of calpol to help Maddie sleep, and IIRC transcripts of police interviews.

[Jay]

As a doctor he would know that calpol is nothing more than paracetamol and wouldn't do anything to help her sleep so I have my doubts but am happy to say I don't know any more about that 'fact' than you do.


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[Hibrandenburg]

I don't get the ferocity of the outrage towards TQM on this. All he's saying is that the McCann's carry an element of blame on the sequence of events that led to Maddie's disappearance. I agree with him and can't get my head around how anyone could believe otherwise.

It's not as if he's camped outside their door with placards condemning them. He started a thread aimed at discussing the tragedy and ends up getting dog's abuse for expressing an opinion which many share. Why?

[Hibbyradge]

I don't get the ferocity of the outrage towards TQM on this. All he's saying is that the McCann's carry an element of blame on the sequence of events that led to Maddie's disappearance. I agree with him and can't get my head around how anyone could believe otherwise.

It's not as if he's camped outside their door with placards condemning them. He started a thread aimed at discussing the tragedy and ends up getting dog's abuse for expressing an opinion which many share. Why?

Everyone on this thread knows that the McCanns made a mistake so carry an element of blame.

It's the hysterical and vindictive calls for them to be jailed that disgusts people.

[Jay]

I'll answer that on my part.

I disagree with his opinions and feel he is quoting nothing but rumours and hasn't answered some of reasonable questions people have asked. That's what forums are all about. TQM stated he wanted them charged with neglect, in my opinion that's outrageous. Who would that benefit? They were actually cleared of any wrong doing by Portuguese police.
Fwiw I think their actions were awful and not something I would ever have done but pointing the finger of blame and accusing them of being out on the lash and drugging her is like reading the daily record. If you want to hate someone enough you'll only read and regurgitate the bad stuff. It would be far better to look for the truth imo


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[allmodcons]

PS - thanks for the various supportive PMs .. You know who you are. Much appreciated.

Perhaps you made a mistake and now someone is showing you a little compassion?

[Peevemor]

I don't get the ferocity of the outrage towards TQM on this. All he's saying is that the McCann's carry an element of blame on the sequence of events that led to Maddie's disappearance. I agree with him and can't get my head around how anyone could believe otherwise.

It's not as if he's camped outside their door with placards condemning them. He started a thread aimed at discussing the tragedy and ends up getting dog's abuse for expressing an opinion which many share. Why?

Ditto.

[allmodcons]

I don't get the ferocity of the outrage towards TQM on this. All he's saying is that the McCann's carry an element of blame on the sequence of events that led to Maddie's disappearance. I agree with him and can't get my head around how anyone could believe otherwise.

It's not as if he's camped outside their door with placards condemning them. He started a thread aimed at discussing the tragedy and ends up getting dog's abuse for expressing an opinion which many share. Why?

Have you been reading the thread Hiberlin? Everybody who's posted on the thread thinks the McCanns 'carry an element of blame' but TQM thinks they should be brought to trial and jailed for their actions!

TQM may not be camped outside the McCanns door with a placard, but there can be no doubt he is 100% condemning them!

He didn't start the thread wishing to 'discuss the tradegy'. He started a thread with an agenda to discredit and demonize the McCanns.

[IWasThere2016]

Perhaps you made a mistake and now someone is showing you a little compassion?

:faf:

Brilliant one-liner!

[IWasThere2016]

Have you been reading the thread Hiberlin? Everybody who's posted on the thread thinks the McCanns 'carry an element of blame' but TQM thinks they should be brought to trial and jailed for their actions!

TQM may not be camped outside the McCanns door with a placard, but there can be no doubt he is 100% condemning them!

He didn't start the thread wishing to 'discuss the tradegy'. He started a thread with an agenda to discredit and demonize the McCanns.

I started a thread re the parents - clearly about the parents and not the tragedy. That was very clear.

And, yes, I am condemning them.

They are implicit in their neglect of their children and the dire consequences that followed are partly attributable to their failings IMHO.

My apologies for having an opinion - last one out put the lights out on .net please :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

:agree: Some very interesting information here - the McCanns tried and failed to shut this page down, and won't take legal action .. Wonder why? Maybe the sections re police dogs, lie detector tests, media contact etc etc woyldn't quite be what they want people to hear.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/507450985946255




He didn't start the thread wishing to 'discuss the tradegy'. He started a thread with an agenda to discredit and demonize the McCanns.

There is a legitimate discussion to be had about whether the McCanns were wilfully negligent.

However, the post above has nothing at all to do with their negligence or otherwise.

It's just nasty innuendo designed to blacken their name.

It's inclusion on the thread proves that this is a witch hunt.

[IWasThere2016]

I'll answer that on my part.

I disagree with his opinions and feel he is quoting nothing but rumours and hasn't answered some of reasonable questions people have asked. That's what forums are all about. TQM stated he wanted them charged with neglect, in my opinion that's outrageous. Who would that benefit? They were actually cleared of any wrong doing by Portuguese police.
Fwiw I think their actions were awful and not something I would ever have done but pointing the finger of blame and accusing them of being out on the lash and drugging her is like reading the daily record. If you want to hate someone enough you'll only read and regurgitate the bad stuff. It would be far better to look for the truth imo


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Here's an idea - a trial might be a 'far better (way) to look for the truth' as it might establish some facts?

[Jay]

Here's an idea - a trial might be a 'far better (way) to look for the truth' as it might establish some facts?

And you can stand in the corner with yer hangmans noose eh? :p

a trial of the guilty party would do me just fine G.


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[IWasThere2016]

There is a legitimate discussion to be had about whether the McCanns were wilfully negligent.

However, the post above has nothing at all to do with their negligence or otherwise.

It's just nasty innuendo designed to blacken their name.

It's inclusion on the thread proves that this is a witch hunt.

It's inclusion highlights the many 'rumours', 'contradictions', 'u-turns' etc..

A trial would have helped establish facts, and it would confirm the only definitive fact that matters is the McCanns were not with their daughter (children) when it mattered most. They left three tots unattended - had they not done so there would be no abduction.

[Hibbyradge]

Here's an idea - a trial might be a 'far better (way) to look for the truth' as it might establish some facts?

You do know that the Police, in both Portugal and the UK, have carried out a detailed investigation into the circumstances surrounding the abduction, don't you?

Neither police force think the McCanns have a case to answer.

[Hibbyradge]

It's inclusion highlights the many 'rumours', 'contradictions', 'u-turns' etc..



It's inclusion has nothing to do with their alleged negligence and you know it.




A trial would have helped establish facts, and it would confirm the only definitive fact that matters is the McCanns were not with their daughter (children) when it mattered most. They left three tots unattended - had they not done so there would be no abduction.

From someone who was slavering on about the gross waste of money that the Met Ofice is(n't), that's an interesting way to spend public money.

Despite the police finding nothing to charge the McCanns with, let's have a trial anyway.

Should we do that for everyone the police don't think have committed a crime or just the ones you don't like?

[IWasThere2016]

And you can stand in the corner with yer hangmans noose eh? :p

a trial of the guilty party would do me just fine G.


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I think we established that I wouldn't make the jury, and why would they hang? They may be acquitted. I say may - it won't happen now..

[Twa Cairpets]

:faf: You're judging me for judging. And pompously calling me pompous.

Any way, Water aff a duck's

I love the compassion line - how can I have compassion for a decision which is alien to me? A decision to leave your children unsupervised, apparently full of calpol, while drinking - this when there was a sitting service available - this is abhorent to me.

The problem was at source - absent, neglectful parents .. If the McCanns had been present their child would have been safe. It really is that simple. They failed their daughter - they are partly responsible IMHO.

No, I'm reacting to a - for me - staggeringly uncaring attitude towards the results of a tragedy, and the equally pompous and self righteous claims of how wonderful a parent you are. You might be of course, but the manner of your posting is, by any sane judgement, somewhat up yer own Ronson.

How can you have compassion? Because -whatever your opinion of the McCann's, their culpability or otherwise, the fact remains that two parents have lost their daughter, probably dead, but without knowing for sure. That alone would, I would have thought, engendered some pity or compassion. (Again for clarity I'm assuming they had nor direct cause in her disappearance).

Would you have compassion for a father who forgot to fix the surround of a trampoline and their kid broke their neck? Would you have compassion for a child drowning in the sea while a parent read a book on a beach? Would you have compassion for a mum who forgot to put a socket guard in a plug and their kid was electrocuted? Or should all of these people be charged and jailed for what were, by your phenomenal standard, clearly acts of wilful and reckless neglect?

[IWasThere2016]

It's inclusion has nothing to do with their alleged negligence and you know it.



From someone who was slavering on about the gross waste of money that the Met Ofice is(n't), that's an interesting way to spend public money.

Despite the police finding nothing to charge the McCanns with, let's have a trial anyway.

Should we do that for everyone the police don't think have committed a crime or just the ones you don't like?

It's not going to happen. It should have (IMHO) happened at the time. Hence why my OP is mainly in the past tense.

Less public money would have been spent by having a trial then, than has been spent since IMHO. Making it better public value to do so.

Finally, I had figured out that the absence of a trial meant the public prosecutors (not the Police) had determined not to proceed with a trial :wink: They don't get those decisions right all the time..

[IWasThere2016]

No, I'm reacting to a - for me - staggeringly uncaring attitude towards the results of a tragedy, and the equally pompous and self righteous claims of how wonderful a parent you are. You might be of course, but the manner of your posting is, by any sane judgement, somewhat up yer own Ronson.

How can you have compassion? Because -whatever your opinion of the McCann's, their culpability or otherwise, the fact remains that two parents have lost their daughter, probably dead, but without knowing for sure. That alone would, I would have thought, engendered some pity or compassion. (Again for clarity I'm assuming they had nor direct cause in her disappearance).

Would you have compassion for a father who forgot to fix the surround of a trampoline and their kid broke their neck? Would you have compassion for a child drowning in the sea while a parent read a book on a beach? Would you have compassion for a mum who forgot to put a socket guard in a plug and their kid was electrocuted? Or should all of these people be charged and jailed for what were, by your phenomenal standard, clearly acts of wilful and reckless neglect?

Dear God.

[Aldo]

Have you been reading the thread Hiberlin? Everybody who's posted on the thread thinks the McCanns 'carry an element of blame' but TQM thinks they should be brought to trial and jailed for their actions! TQM may not be camped outside the McCanns door with a placard, but there can be no doubt he is 100% condemning them! He didn't start the thread wishing to 'discuss the tradegy'. He started a thread with an agenda to discredit and demonize the McCanns.

I think there should of been some sort of reprimand at the very least in respect of the McCann's for their actions or lack of thereof on their behalf. They failed as parents because they left their kids home alone and should be dealt with in respect of this. (Yes you could say they have paid the ultimate penalty but they still did wrong)

In this country there would of at least been a report sent to the PF with Social Services involved and even the possibility of the other children being put on the at risk register to ensure their safety and future well being.

No the McCanns didn't go out to deliberately have their child abducted but even after Maddie had told them her brother had been crying, she couldn't find them (not exact words) they still thought it was ok just to go out that evening.
That is totally and utter unacceptable in my books and leaving them all alone exposed them to danger.

I don't know how the system works in Portugal but it's clear that something was amiss between both parties with loads of finger pointing towards the police and them not doing their jobs right.

Very stressful and upsetting situations change people and the questions asked would not if been nice.

At the end of the day Maddie is the victim so there would of been some very not nice questions asked of everyone (which folk might not like) and maybe all these questions weren't answered satisfactorily.

[Aldo]

No, I'm reacting to a - for me - staggeringly uncaring attitude towards the results of a tragedy, and the equally pompous and self righteous claims of how wonderful a parent you are. You might be of course, but the manner of your posting is, by any sane judgement, somewhat up yer own Ronson. How can you have compassion? Because -whatever your opinion of the McCann's, their culpability or otherwise, the fact remains that two parents have lost their daughter, probably dead, but without knowing for sure. That alone would, I would have thought, engendered some pity or compassion. (Again for clarity I'm assuming they had nor direct cause in her disappearance). Would you have compassion for a father who forgot to fix the surround of a trampoline and their kid broke their neck? Would you have compassion for a child drowning in the sea while a parent read a book on a beach? Would you have compassion for a mum who forgot to put a socket guard in a plug and their kid was electrocuted? Or should all of these people be charged and jailed for what were, by your phenomenal standard, clearly acts of wilful and reckless neglect?

TC

Regarding the above it all depends on the individual circumstances of each case and what if anything witnesses have to say.

If they have deliberately exposed their child/children to danger or otherwise then yes they should be dealt with accordingly.

[Twa Cairpets]

Dear God.
My reaction to everything you're written so far too.

[Twa Cairpets]

TC

Regarding the above it all depends on the individual circumstances of each case and what if anything witnesses have to say.

If they have deliberately exposed their child/children to danger or otherwise then yes they should be dealt with accordingly.

To an extent, you're right. If the McCanns has said - right kids, go and see how many times you can run across this road without looking, or jump off the balcony, then that is actively putting them in danger. What they did, and the other examples I cited, are "sins of omission - passive, not wilful acts of endangerment. Bad judgement, possibly. Poor parenting. Possibly. But not worthy of the awful puritanical opprobrium that TQM is heaping upon the McCanns as if they are somehow evil incarnate and should be jailed.

[IWasThere2016]

My reaction to everything you're written so far too.

Well done - I am pleased for you.

[IWasThere2016]

To an extent, you're right. If the McCanns has said - right kids, go and see how many times you can run across this road without looking, or jump off the balcony, then that is actively putting them in danger. What they did, and the other examples I cited, are "sins of omission - passive, not wilful acts of endangerment. Bad judgement, possibly. Poor parenting. Possibly. But not worthy of the awful puritanical opprobrium that TQM is heaping upon the McCanns as if they are somehow evil incarnate and should be jailed.

:faf:

[allmodcons]

PS - thanks for the various supportive PMs .. You know who you are. Much appreciated.


Perhaps you made a mistake and now someone is showing you a little compassion?


:faf: Brilliant one-liner!

You're coming under a helluva lot of fire on this thread.
It's good to see you've not lost your sense of humour.

[Sergio sledge]

To an extent, you're right. If the McCanns has said - right kids, go and see how many times you can run across this road without looking, or jump off the balcony, then that is actively putting them in danger. What they did, and the other examples I cited, are "sins of omission - passive, not wilful acts of endangerment. Bad judgement, possibly. Poor parenting. Possibly. But not worthy of the awful puritanical opprobrium that TQM is heaping upon the McCanns as if they are somehow evil incarnate and should be jailed.

I don't think deliberately leaving your three children alone in an apartment while you go for dinner in a nearby restaurant is a "sin of omission." It's not like they forgot that they were leaving the children.

The only one, of the examples you gave, which may be remotely comparable to the McCann situation, IMHO, is the one where the parent stays on the beach reading a book and their child drowns.

That said, I don't think that they should be prosecuted. I don't think it was child neglect per-se or wilful endangerment, but they are certainly guilty of selfishness and putting their needs before the needs of, and safety of, the children for that they have paid the ultimate price. Where some might get away with a child falling and bumping their head, the McCanns have lost a child, something I'm sure they will never, ever get over.

I hope whoever took Madeline is brought to justice, no matter how long it takes and I hope that she is eventually found however unlikely that may be.

[Jonnyboy]

Actually, of all many, many things you've put on this thread that I disagree with on a very fundamental level, this is clearly and demonstrably the most wrong.

Your lack of compassion is, frankly, staggering.
Your pompous superiority complex, while I suspect is at least half trolling, is also I think what you actually believe to be true - that you are some type of uber parent and that for whatever reason the McCann's are evil incarnate.

Your utter lack of any feeling for the McCanns - that somehow they deserve to suffer and should be publicly punished for what you think they did so terribly, terribly wrong - in tandem with your claims of apparent personal parental infallibility I actually find slightly disturbing.


Everyone on this thread knows that the McCanns made a mistake so carry an element of blame.

It's the hysterical and vindictive calls for them to be jailed that disgusts people.

You guys are wasting your time. As am I.

There Are None So Blind
As Those Who Will Not See

[IWasThere2016]

Good job I'm no a sensitive wee soul - I'm such a bad man in the eyes of so many.

I despair - I really do.

Maybe I should neglect my kids and come back on here for some support.

[Jay]

Good job I'm no a sensitive wee soul - I'm such a bad man in the eyes of so many.

I despair - I really do.

Maybe I should neglect my kids and come back on here for some support.

Ridiculous and uncalled for IMO. Nobody's saying your a bad man and as for your last line ......I'm out, I can't debate or reason with stupidity.


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[Aldo]

To an extent, you're right. If the McCanns has said - right kids, go and see how many times you can run across this road without looking, or jump off the balcony, then that is actively putting them in danger. What they did, and the other examples I cited, are "sins of omission - passive, not wilful acts of endangerment. Bad judgement, possibly. Poor parenting. Possibly. But not worthy of the awful puritanical opprobrium that TQM is heaping upon the McCanns as if they are somehow evil incarnate and should be jailed.

TC

The bit I still can't fathom out is their son had been crying when they had been out the previous evening and Maddie told them this and that she couldn't find them (or words to that effect) but the still choose to leave them alone (all 3) to go to dinner with their chums.

That is wrong and it was about self indulgence and them enjoying themselves and relaxing after a busy day.

In doing this they exposed their kids to danger and possibly harm.(and this is proved by the abduction of Maddie)

[allmodcons]

Good job I'm no a sensitive wee soul - I'm such a bad man in the eyes of so many.

I despair - I really do.

Maybe I should neglect my kids and come back on here for some support.


Ridiculous and uncalled for IMO. Nobody's saying your a bad man and as for your last line ......I'm out, I can't debate or reason with stupidity.

Class Mrs S. Nobody's saying you're a bad man only a stupid man!

[Scouse Hibee]

Good job I'm no a sensitive wee soul - I'm such a bad man in the eyes of so many.

I despair - I really do.

Maybe I should neglect my kids and come back on here for some support.


I have said on an earlier post that it beggars belief that they left their kids alone and nothing will change my opinion of that.

How far do you have to go to avoid "neglect" as you call it. My son is 19 so I've been through the whole "at what age should I let them do that/go somewhere alone/cross the road" scenario's and my standards/decisions differed from many parents as you would expect.
If your neighbour was to let his child (the same age as yours) cross a road unattended a good year before you would, and that child was knocked down by a car, would you also accuse him of neglect by your standards?

[IWasThere2016]

Ridiculous and uncalled for IMO. Nobody's saying your a bad man and as for your last line ......I'm out, I can't debate or reason with stupidity.


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Stupid. Warped. Lacking compassion. Blind. Up my own arse. Pompous. And many more...

Well done all :thumbsup:

[HNA2]

Threads going nowhere now, not much hasn't been said