Hibs ladies docked points

[Leishy1995]

So in Scottish ladies football, most teams have a development team in the divisions below the premier league. Hibs ladies have one who won the league on Sunday past.

In a recent turn of events the Hibs ladies development squad have been docked 3 points for playing a player aged 14 in their DEVELOPMENT squad. This now means they will play hearts at home on Sunday and need to win to win the league.

Strangely, the second placed team, Spartans ladies development, brought a host of top flight regulars down to beat Hibs development and got no punishment.

Imagine this happened in a senior men's league?

My little sister plays for the development team so I'm obviously not critiscing. And incase anyone is wondering, the game the 14 year old lass played in, Hibs won by a country mile and the young lass scored. It was also months ago.


Edit - Hibs ladies have paid 100 quid to appeal. Ludicrous rule. Being on the jambos

[Pretty Boy]

I'm confused as to what they have done wrong.

Are they being punished for playing a player that is too young?

[Leishy1995]

I'm confused as to what they have done wrong.

Are they being punished for playing a player that is too young?

Apparently. They played a player "too young" in a development squad a lot like our east of Scotland team.

[Pretty Boy]

Apparently. They played a player "too young" in a development squad a lot like our east of Scotland team.

Thought that was the case.

Absolutely crazy. A development squad that bans you from developing talented youngsters. Only in Scotland.

[frazeHFC]

So basically punished for developing a player in the development team. :confused: Bit of a stupid rule!

[Leishy1995]

It's been awhile since the game and the entire thing came about recently. Like I said about Spartans bringing regular top flight players down, where's the justice really?

[GreenCastle]

So in Scottish ladies football, most teams have a development team in the divisions below the premier league. Hibs ladies have one who won the league on Sunday past.

In a recent turn of events the Hibs ladies development squad have been docked 3 points for playing a player aged 14 in their DEVELOPMENT squad. This now means they will play hearts at home on Sunday and need to win to win the league.

Strangely, the second placed team, Spartans ladies development, brought a host of top flight regulars down to beat Hibs development and got no punishment.

Imagine this happened in a senior men's league?

My little sister plays for the development team so I'm obviously not critiscing. And incase anyone is wondering, the game the 14 year old lass played in, Hibs won by a country mile and the young lass scored. It was also months ago.


Edit - Hibs ladies have paid 100 quid to appeal. Ludicrous rule. Being on the jambos

The rules are in place about what the ages are allowed to play in Senior Women's Football. Not all teams in that league are development teams - a 14 year old against a 29 year old fully developed female is quite possibly putting the youngsters career at risk.

Regarding dropping players down - this rule has been used by many teams over the years including Hibs to play players in other leagues - I don't think it's fair to have a go at Spartans Reserves (not development) for sticking to the rules.

What about James McPake playing for the EOS Scotland team recently?

[Leishy1995]

The rules are in place about what the ages are allowed to play in Senior Women's Football. Not all teams in that league are development teams - a 14 year old against a 29 year old fully developed female is quite possibly putting the youngsters career at risk.

Regarding dropping players down - this rule has been used by many teams over the years including Hibs to play players in other leagues - I don't think it's fair to have a go at Spartans Reserves (not development) for sticking to the rules.

What about James McPake playing for the EOS Scotland team recently?


Mcpake was recovering from an injury. There is a reserve league aswell.

So in a team made for the development of youth players, should they not e allowed to develop them? There's been backlash from all corners off the UK on my twitter.

There was no reason other than playing to win the game for Spartans to bring down what was it, 6 senior players or something, all got and playing regularly, whilst Hibs tried to develop there youngsters and it punished. Stupid rule.


And the whole fully developed female, comment, there was 15 year olds playing regularly and tearing apart he league, I guess that forgetting the fact everyone develops a different paces means they shouldn't actually be allowed to play against fully developed females. They'll ever fit more from playing fully developed females a lot like our males will in the east of Scotland league am I right?

[DaveF]

The rules are in place about what the ages are allowed to play in Senior Women's Football. Not all teams in that league are development teams - a 14 year old against a 29 year old fully developed female is quite possibly putting the youngsters career at risk.

Regarding dropping players down - this rule has been used by many teams over the years including Hibs to play players in other leagues - I don't think it's fair to have a go at Spartans Reserves (not development) for sticking to the rules.

What about James McPake playing for the EOS Scotland team recently?

I'm pretty sure Hearts played a 15 or 16 year old in the game against Hibs U20s. Apparently he was very, very good but physically he would have been 'at risk' as you put it from the likes of McPake and the other seniors Hibs played that night.

It's a daft rule. If you are good enough to play - and she clearly is - then you are old enough to play.

[Brightside]

Whats the age start then for development teams. Anyone born after 1998 can play in the senior league acc to the Rules...nothing int he rules about age limits in the Dev league. U21 league states... To be eligible to participate in the U21 League(s), players must be born between 1st January 1992 and 31st December 1998 (inclusive). Im guessing this kid is a 1999 and they are using the u21 rules.

[dangermouse]

Sixteen year olds have played in the SPL (I think Fraser Fyvie is the current holder of youngest player to play in the SPL). If it's good enough for boys to play against men why not girls against women (unless Tam Cowan is watching :greengrin)?

[kentao]

Such a stupid rule. What age was Wayne Rooney when he scores this screamer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4dBWUjuCU0

Oh aye 16 years old playing in the top Flight in England. Yet some wee lassie can play in a developmental league because shes too young. If your good enough your old enough.

Hope they get the punishment overturned or give Hearts a proper hiding for the injustice :D

[JIm]

The rule actually states that if the club need to seek permission to play someone of this age from Scottish Womens Football (as opposed to saying they are full stop not allowed to play). This rule has been in place for the best part of 5/6 years now so its not exactly something new? I'd also imagine that the rule was put in place to protect some of the younger girls that were being played say five years ago before the game progressed in the way it has. Perhaps a review does need to be taken but clubs are well aware of the process for getting rules changed if they feel the need to so again its down to them to get it changed.

Whether your think its daft or not whoever played the girl (i.e the coach/club secretary) without seeking approval is the one thats at fault here. Rules whether you like them are not are available for all to see in black and white. :cb

[GreenCastle]

Mcpake was recovering from an injury. There is a reserve league aswell.

So in a team made for the development of youth players, should they not e allowed to develop them? There's been backlash from all corners off the UK on my twitter.

There was no reason other than playing to win the game for Spartans to bring down what was it, 6 senior players or something, all got and playing regularly, whilst Hibs tried to develop there youngsters and it punished. Stupid rule.


And the whole fully developed female, comment, there was 15 year olds playing regularly and tearing apart he league, I guess that forgetting the fact everyone develops a different paces means they shouldn't actually be allowed to play against fully developed females. They'll ever fit more from playing fully developed females a lot like our males will in the east of Scotland league am I right?

I'm not saying the girl isn't good enough or strong enough.

What I am saying is that the rules are put in place by Women's football in Scotland and all teams adhere to them. The league you keep talking about isn't a development league - it's the South East League where senior women's football teams play in. Hibs have a development team which play in a separate league against Glasgow City and a few others. This Hibs Development team was basically the better youngsters promoted after Hibs gutted (got rid) of several players last season.

I noticed you ignored my point about Hibs having previous dropping players down to get match fitness - I'm not sure why you have singled out Spartans when Hearts Women have dropped players down also - again within the rules. Hibs are no angels here if you know your history.

There are many good females out there coming through the ranks and again I am aware they develop at different rates to males but McPake playing in the East of Scotland league which is mainly youth players is very similar - it's been done for a reason to help him recover from fitness - doesn't make it right...or wrong..depending what your stance on it is. I believe players get better playing with experienced players so surely if Hibs Development are so concerned about development then why don't they want to play against better players ? You would also think they would use their subs / squad better to give others a chance to develop - not just worry about winning a lower league - usually in DEVELOPMENT - results don't matter?

[TrinityHibs]

I'm not saying the girl isn't good enough or strong enough.

What I am saying is that the rules are put in place by Women's football in Scotland and all teams adhere to them. The league you keep talking about isn't a development league - it's the South East League where senior women's football teams play in. Hibs have a development team which play in a separate league against Glasgow City and a few others. This Hibs Development team was basically the better youngsters promoted after Hibs gutted (got rid) of several players last season.

I noticed you ignored my point about Hibs having previous dropping players down to get match fitness - I'm not sure why you have singled out Spartans when Hearts Women have dropped players down also - again within the rules. Hibs are no angels here if you know your history.

There are many good females out there coming through the ranks and again I am aware they develop at different rates to males but McPake playing in the East of Scotland league which is mainly youth players is very similar - it's been done for a reason to help him recover from fitness - doesn't make it right...or wrong..depending what your stance on it is. I believe players get better playing with experienced players so surely if Hibs Development are so concerned about development then why don't they want to play against better players ? You would also think they would use their subs / squad better to give others a chance to develop - not just worry about winning a lower league - usually in DEVELOPMENT - results don't matter?

Could the development team not just bring in 6 players from the ladies team and give the Jumbos a real gubbing. It seems to be okay for Spartans and would irritate the dafties. If Hearts bring in players and we don't we will only have ourselves to blame if they get a result by playing within the rules.

[Brightside]

Could the development team not just bring in 6 players from the ladies team and give the Jumbos a real gubbing. It seems to be okay for Spartans and would irritate the dafties. If Hearts bring in players and we don't we will only have ourselves to blame if they get a result by playing within the rules.

Haha. Aye - just play the main team.. they'd win about 24-0.

[GreenCastle]

Could the development team not just bring in 6 players from the ladies team and give the Jumbos a real gubbing. It seems to be okay for Spartans and would irritate the dafties. If Hearts bring in players and we don't we will only have ourselves to blame if they get a result by playing within the rules.

They probably could - I think I was told there is a cut off for doing so plus the players dropping down a league can't have started the last game for the senior SWPL team so it's not a complete free for all.

Hibs play Rangers this weekend so Hibs will need their full team as they try to beat them.

Hibs should have enough in them this weekend to beat Hearts Development team - Hearts Women's 1st team are in the 1st Division which is below the SWPL.

[Geo_1875]

Rules have been broken. Blame the team officials, not the authorities.

[GreenCastle]

Rules have been broken. Blame the team officials, not the authorities.

:aok:

Why are Hibs wasting 100 quid appealing anyway ? :confused:

[Leishy1995]

I'm not saying the girl isn't good enough or strong enough.

What I am saying is that the rules are put in place by Women's football in Scotland and all teams adhere to them. The league you keep talking about isn't a development league - it's the South East League where senior women's football teams play in. Hibs have a development team which play in a separate league against Glasgow City and a few others. This Hibs Development team was basically the better youngsters promoted after Hibs gutted (got rid) of several players last season.

I noticed you ignored my point about Hibs having previous dropping players down to get match fitness - I'm not sure why you have singled out Spartans when Hearts Women have dropped players down also - again within the rules. Hibs are no angels here if you know your history.

There are many good females out there coming through the ranks and again I am aware they develop at different rates to males but McPake playing in the East of Scotland league which is mainly youth players is very similar - it's been done for a reason to help him recover from fitness - doesn't make it right...or wrong..depending what your stance on it is. I believe players get better playing with experienced players so surely if Hibs Development are so concerned about development then why don't they want to play against better players ? You would also think they would use their subs / squad better to give others a chance to develop - not just worry about winning a lower league - usually in DEVELOPMENT - results don't matter?

I ignored your point, did I? Dropping players down for match fitness is not the same as dropping 6 regulars down and playing them so you can ensure a victory.

This isn't a development league, correct. But if any male team played a player who they deemed good enough and then months later were docke points which meant they weren't league champions, there would be an outcry.

Mcpake played in the east of Scotland team whilst recovering from an injury. It's not similar to what Spartans done at all.

How is it ok for a 15 years and 1 day old player to play without protection and not a 14 years and 364 day old player?


It's a stupid rule. And if you're punishing a team for developing players as Hibs are then you should take a seat beside Tam Cowan. Obviously don't want the development team to be just that.

This season, I'm 100% sure Hibs ladies have not brought any first team players down. Only under 17s up. Spartans played first team regulars so surely they will have started the last game for Spartans, and broke the rule you allude to.

[IanM]

I ignored your point, did I? Dropping players down for match fitness is not the same as dropping 6 regulars down and playing them so you can ensure a victory.

This isn't a development league, correct. But if any male team played a player who they deemed good enough and then months later were docke points which meant they weren't league champions, there would be an outcry.

Mcpake played in the east of Scotland team whilst recovering from an injury. It's not similar to what Spartans done at all.

How is it ok for a 15 years and 1 day old player to play without protection and not a 14 years and 364 day old player?


It's a stupid rule. And if you're punishing a team for developing players as Hibs are then you should take a seat beside Tam Cowan. Obviously don't want the development team to be just that.

This season, I'm 100% sure Hibs ladies have not brought any first team players down. Only under 17s up. Spartans played first team regulars so surely they will have started the last game for Spartans, and broke the rule you allude to.


I'm not saying the girl isn't good enough or strong enough.

What I am saying is that the rules are put in place by Women's football in Scotland and all teams adhere to them. The league you keep talking about isn't a development league - it's the South East League where senior women's football teams play in. Hibs have a development team which play in a separate league against Glasgow City and a few others. This Hibs Development team was basically the better youngsters promoted after Hibs gutted (got rid) of several players last season.

I noticed you ignored my point about Hibs having previous dropping players down to get match fitness - I'm not sure why you have singled out Spartans when Hearts Women have dropped players down also - again within the rules. Hibs are no angels here if you know your history.

There are many good females out there coming through the ranks and again I am aware they develop at different rates to males but McPake playing in the East of Scotland league which is mainly youth players is very similar - it's been done for a reason to help him recover from fitness - doesn't make it right...or wrong..depending what your stance on it is. I believe players get better playing with experienced players so surely if Hibs Development are so concerned about development then why don't they want to play against better players ? You would also think they would use their subs / squad better to give others a chance to develop - not just worry about winning a lower league - usually in DEVELOPMENT - results don't matter?

ladies, ladies please - put the handbags away... :dancer:

[JIm]

I ignored your point, did I? Dropping players down for match fitness is not the same as dropping 6 regulars down and playing them so you can ensure a victory.

This isn't a development league, correct. But if any male team played a player who they deemed good enough and then months later were docke points which meant they weren't league champions, there would be an outcry.

Mcpake played in the east of Scotland team whilst recovering from an injury. It's not similar to what Spartans done at all.

How is it ok for a 15 years and 1 day old player to play without protection and not a 14 years and 364 day old player?


It's a stupid rule. And if you're punishing a team for developing players as Hibs are then you should take a seat beside Tam Cowan. Obviously don't want the development team to be just that.

This season, I'm 100% sure Hibs ladies have not brought any first team players down. Only under 17s up. Spartans played first team regulars so surely they will have started the last game for Spartans, and broke the rule you allude to.

Ill step in and answer some of these questions whilst i'm here:

1. Whether you agree with what Spartans did or not its in the rules and its allowed. Just as Hibs regularly used to do within their youth setups players (where age eligable) played down to help younger teams win games.

2. The mens game shouldn't come in to this. Simple facts are that Hibs should have applied for permission to play the girl. They didn't therefore they are in the wrong.

3. Regarding the 15 year old and 1 day and th e14 year old and 364 days your point is valid. But that is why the club should have applied for permission to play her. Simple. Its in the rules. The club are aware of this and had they applied i have no doubt they would have got permission.

4. To suggest the poster deserves a seat next to Tam Cowan is ludicrous just because he does not agree with you view point.

[Brightside]

I ignored your point, did I? Dropping players down for match fitness is not the same as dropping 6 regulars down and playing them so you can ensure a victory.

This isn't a development league, correct. But if any male team played a player who they deemed good enough and then months later were docke points which meant they weren't league champions, there would be an outcry.

Mcpake played in the east of Scotland team whilst recovering from an injury. It's not similar to what Spartans done at all.

How is it ok for a 15 years and 1 day old player to play without protection and not a 14 years and 364 day old player?


It's a stupid rule. And if you're punishing a team for developing players as Hibs are then you should take a seat beside Tam Cowan. Obviously don't want the development team to be just that.

This season, I'm 100% sure Hibs ladies have not brought any first team players down. Only under 17s up. Spartans played first team regulars so surely they will have started the last game for Spartans, and broke the rule you allude to.

Bottom line is its a rule and they need to abide by it. Suck it up, move on, hump Hearts. Job done.

[Leishy1995]

Bottom line is its a rule and they need to abide by it. Suck it up, move on, hump Hearts. Job done.

They've appealed the decision, but will hopefully hump hearts none the less.

I understand other people disagree with me that's fine, I just think it's stupid punishing a team for developing players.

I personally see more wrong in what Spartans done than Hibs.

[GreenCastle]

I ignored your point, did I? Dropping players down for match fitness is not the same as dropping 6 regulars down and playing them so you can ensure a victory.

This isn't a development league, correct. But if any male team played a player who they deemed good enough and then months later were docke points which meant they weren't league champions, there would be an outcry.

Mcpake played in the east of Scotland team whilst recovering from an injury. It's not similar to what Spartans done at all.

How is it ok for a 15 years and 1 day old player to play without protection and not a 14 years and 364 day old player?


It's a stupid rule. And if you're punishing a team for developing players as Hibs are then you should take a seat beside Tam Cowan. Obviously don't want the development team to be just that.

This season, I'm 100% sure Hibs ladies have not brought any first team players down. Only under 17s up. Spartans played first team regulars so surely they will have started the last game for Spartans, and broke the rule you allude to.

Your not seeing the bigger picture here -rules are made and they were broken -simple -doesn't matter if it's 14 years and 364 or not - the rule states 15 - if you have a problem with that go to a Women's football meeting and bring it up. I am not saying I agree with the rule - just stating that's the rules. If your drink driving - doesn't matter if your just over the limit...your over the limit!! It's the rules / laws in place!

This has nothing to do with Tam Cowan - I think Women's Football is excellent and certainly improving all the time and if you read the Cowan thread I fully support the game.

It doesn't matter if your recovering from injury or not - dropping down leagues like McPake did and like Hibs ladies have done in previous years happens.

You keep talking about Spartans - I have a friend who plays for that reserve team and she just sent me a message saying it was 3 (not the 6 your making up or story one of the coaches has exaggerated about!) players brought down for match fitness / recovering from injury and all of them didn't feature previously for 1st team - so again no rules broken!!

Hibs will beat Hearts this weekend anyway (sounds good doesn't it :greengrin) - I do worry about the development of girls though in the game if people like yourself / parents are getting so angry about such a minor issue-hopefully the 14 year old doesn't have to listen to all of this and hasn't been affected. Must be pretty awkward for her being played - the error being made by the adult not knowing the rules.

You keep saying they are punished for developing players -no the punishment is for breaking the rules! You will sound like a yam with deluded comments like that.

[Leishy1995]

Your not seeing the bigger picture here -rules are made and they were broken -simple -doesn't matter if it's 14 years and 364 or not - the rule states 15 - if you have a problem with that go to a Women's football meeting and bring it up. I am not saying I agree with the rule - just stating that's the rules. If your drink driving - doesn't matter if your just over the limit...your over the limit!! It's the rules / laws in place!

This has nothing to do with Tam Cowan - I think Women's Football is excellent and certainly improving all the time and if you read the Cowan thread I fully support the game.

It doesn't matter if your recovering from injury or not - dropping down leagues like McPake did and like Hibs ladies have done in previous years happens.

You keep talking about Spartans - I have a friend who plays for that reserve team and she just sent me a message saying it was 3 (not the 6 your making up or story one of the coaches has exaggerated about!) players brought down for match fitness / recovering from injury and all of them didn't feature previously for 1st team - so again no rules broken!!

Hibs will beat Hearts this weekend anyway (sounds good doesn't it :greengrin) - I do worry about the development of girls though in the game if people like yourself / parents are getting so angry about such a minor issue-hopefully the 14 year old doesn't have to listen to all of this and hasn't been affected. Must be pretty awkward for her being played - the error being made by the adult not knowing the rules.

I agree the rules are there, but I think it's a stupid rule and shouldn't be there, and if anything should have been brought up after the game, which I'm told was months ago.

I can tell you support the game purely because you're interested in the topic, the tam Cowan comment, was more about the halting of developing player, if you take it personally I'm sorry.

The reason for these second teams should be to develop youngsters and first team players like our mcpake to get match fitness. I was in London for the Scotland game when Spartans brought down players, and as such have gone by what the Hibs players and the fans told me when I came back.

Hopefully Hibs do gubb hearts, or whoever overlooked what is a stupid rule, should be made apologise to the Hibs team for potentially ruining their title chances. And yes, let's hope the 14 year old doesn't feel like it is her to blame.

I still disagree with the points deduction, think it's a strange punishment for developing players but the rule won't be changed unless more than Hibs contest it.

[Leishy1995]

You keep saying they are punished for developing players -no the punishment is for breaking the rules! You will sound like a yam with deluded comments like that.

The rule does punish teams for trying to develop players though, if you're good enough you're old enough I was always told. But Scottish women's football obviously disagree. I won't sound like a yam because I won't be chatting up 12 year olds on Facebook whilst selling shares in my company to mindless zombies

[GreenCastle]

I agree the rules are there, but I think it's a stupid rule and shouldn't be there, and if anything should have been brought up after the game, which I'm told was months ago.

I can tell you support the game purely because you're interested in the topic, the tam Cowan comment, was more about the halting of developing player, if you take it personally I'm sorry.

The reason for these second teams should be to develop youngsters and first team players like our mcpake to get match fitness. I was in London for the Scotland game when Spartans brought down players, and as such have gone by what the Hibs players and the fans told me when I came back.

Hopefully Hibs do gubb hearts, or whoever overlooked what is a stupid rule, should be made apologise to the Hibs team for potentially ruining their title chances. And yes, let's hope the 14 year old doesn't feel like it is her to blame.

I still disagree with the points deduction, think it's a strange punishment for developing players but the rule won't be changed unless more than Hibs contest it.

:aok: Good to see that your realising the bigger picture and apology accepted.

I am a Hibee like you and want the team to do well but obviously by the rules - if these rules need changed then maybe Hibs and Spartans need to join forces to help one another as I know there are many good people working in girls and women's football at both clubs. Both clubs are key for the future of girls football in Edinburgh with their history over the last few and the resources / good coaches both have at youth and senior level.

[Leishy1995]

:aok: Good to see that your realising the bigger picture and apology accepted.

I am a Hibee like you and want the team to do well but obviously by the rules - if these rules need changed then maybe Hibs and Spartans need to join forces to help one another as I know there are many good people working in girls and women's football at both clubs. Both clubs are key for the future of girls football in Edinburgh with their history over the last few and the resources / good coaches both have at youth and senior level.

I agree, just hope this doesn't come back to bite the team.

[The Hibee Harp]

This isn't a development league, correct. But if any male team played a player who they deemed good enough and then months later were docke points which meant they weren't league champions, there would be an outcry.

Just to be clear the game in question was in the middle of last month.

It's harsh on Hibs but the rules have been in place all season so it's the club and only the club at fault not anyone else.

As has already been stated the 14 year old would've been eligible to play had Hibs followed the proper procedure.

What Spartans, Hearts or anyone else had done is irrelevant imo and as someone already hinted at Hibs dropped senior players down to their Reserve side last season to help them win the First Division.