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The Sea-gull
08-10-2013, 08:11 AM
Wanted to post a few things last night but forum is always crowded after a match and wanted to think about a few things too.

1. Terrible performance for 3/4s of the game last night. Defence looked shaky, midfield unbalanced and strikers not in the game.

2. A good win though, these sort of games are potentially tricky and we have slipped up before so credit to the players for sticking at it.

3. The win was largely, but not entirely, down to luck more than a tactical master class by PF. Manager deserves a certain degree of credit for making changes which won the game but there is no doubt he was lucky we were still in the game at that point. Play like that most weeks and we will lose more than we win.

4. Ben Williams is a fantastic shot-stopper. A bit suspect on crosses but compared to the keepers we have been subjected to in the last 10 years (perhaps only Stack and the brief spell of the Mad Monk offering any competition) he is outstanding.

5. We continue to look unconvincing at the back. Right back seems to have a make-shift look whoever we play there though that could be solved by a fit Clancy returning and getting a run. Something doesn't seem right about McGivern and Hanlon remains shaky almost 6 years after making his first team debut. Him and Nelson are not the first XI quality required if we want to do well. Even with a fully fit McPake, Fenlon has neglected to sign a real quaility centre half which has been needed since he came to us.

6. Liam Craig offers us something we haven't had since Dean Shiels left nearly 5 years ago. A genunie goal threat from midfield. He also offers a calm head when defending - he looks to play a long pass rather than punt it clear.

7. Thomson and Taiwo are too similar, too defensive and get in each others way. One or the other for me and it has to be Thomson based on this season and general experience and quality. Move Robertson into the centre with KT and it would give us better balance in the centre and allow Zouby to get a shot out wide on the right.

8. Our strikers aren't scoring enough goals. Early days yet for both JC and Heff but they need better service. Heff for me has been more impressive than JC. Tin hat on here but at 200k I would have expected more than 2 goals in 9 games from JC, irrespective of the service he has and the adaptation to a new league.

9. I remain unconvinced that we will ever play good football regularly under PF. I just don't think he has that in him but to be honest if given the choice over winning football matches and playing nice stuff, it will be the former every time for me. That said, he still has to blood Zoubi and Harris and Cairney have to come back so maybe there is creative light at the end of the tunnel.

10. The GIRUY style posts on the match day thread from one or two last night after we took the lead were needless. We all want Hibs to score goals and win games. I didn't see many people going OTT with their posts during the game. I just saw lots of people telling it how it was - a poor display. A win does not change the fact that it was a poor display.

11. Michael Stewart has got a lot of flack but some of what he says on Pat rings true and he is paid to offer an opinion. The presenter Kenny McIntyre really seems to have a problem with Hibs and loves jobby stirring whenever he is on the air especially with Stewart. Think McIntyre must get paid a bonus everytime he can get the "John Collins saga" mentioned on air, he never fails to get the conversation round to it even though it happened in 2007 FFS.

12. The Sportsound team sounded gutted that we won and that was PLEASING to hear!

13. We have had a "poor" start to the season yet are level on points with Aberdeen who have been "brilliant" and were due to sweep all before them.

14. My own view on Pat hasn't changed - still unconvinced but think he deserves the season and will assess him at the end of the season or when top 6 becomes an impossibility. Whichever comes first.

Interested to hear where others agree/disagree.

Keith_M
08-10-2013, 08:12 AM
They wiz robbed!

dangermouse
08-10-2013, 08:16 AM
Wanted to post a few things last night but forum is always crowded after a match and wanted to think about a few things too.

1. Terrible performance for 3/4s of the game last night. Defence looked shaky, midfield unbalanced and strikers not in the game.

2. A good win though, these sort of games are potentially tricky and we have slipped up before so credit to the players for sticking at it.

3. The win was largely, but not entirely, down to luck more than a tactical master class by PF. Manager deserves a certain degree of credit for making changes which won the game but there is no doubt he was lucky we were still in the game at that point. Play like that most weeks and we will lose more than we win.

4. Ben Williams is a fantastic shot-stopper. A bit suspect on crosses but compared to the keepers we have been subjected to in the last 10 years (perhaps only Stack and the brief spell of the Mad Monk offering any competition) he is outstanding.

5. We continue to look unconvincing at the back. Right back seems to have a make-shift look whoever we play there though that could be solved by a fit Clancy returning and getting a run. Something doesn't seem right about McGivern and Hanlon remains shaky almost 6 years after making his first team debut. Him and Nelson are not the first XI quality required if we want to do well. Even with a fully fit McPake, Fenlon has neglected to sign a real quaility centre half which has been needed since he came to us.

6. Liam Craig offers us something we haven't had since Dean Shiels left nearly 5 years ago. A genunie goal threat from midfield. He also offers a calm head when defending - he looks to play a long pass rather than punt it clear.

7. Thomson and Taiwo are too similar, too defensive and get in each others way. One or the other for me and it has to be Thomson based on this season and general experience and quality. Move Robertson into the centre with KT and it would give us better balance in the centre and allow Zouby to get a shot out wide on the right.

8. Our strikers aren't scoring enough goals. Early days yet for both JC and Heff but they need better service. Heff for me has been more impressive than JC. Tin hat on here but at 200k I would have expected more than 2 goals in 9 games from JC, irrespective of the service he has and the adaptation to a new league.

9. I remain unconvinced that we will ever play good football regularly under PF. I just don't think he has that in him but to be honest if given the choice over winning football matches and playing nice stuff, it will be the former every time for me. That said, he still has to blood Zoubi and Harris and Cairney have to come back so maybe there is creative light at the end of the tunnel.

10. The GIRUY style posts on the match day thread from one or two last night after we took the lead were needless. We all want Hibs to score goals and win games. I didn't see many people going OTT with their posts during the game. I just saw lots of people telling it how it was - a poor display. A win does not change the fact that it was a poor display.

11. Michael Stewart has got a lot of flack but some of what he says on Pat rings true and he is paid to offer an opinion. The presenter Kenny McIntyre really seems to have a problem with Hibs and loves jobby stirring whenever he is on the air especially with Stewart. Think McIntyre must get paid a bonus everytime he can get the "John Collins saga" mentioned on air, he never fails to get the conversation round to it even though it happened in 2007 FFS.

12. The Sportsound team sounded gutted that we won and that was PLEASING to hear!

13. We have had a "poor" start to the season yet are level on points with Aberdeen who have been "brilliant" and were due to sweep all before them.

14. My own view on Pat hasn't changed - still unconvinced but think he deserves the season and will assess him at the end of the season or when top 6 becomes an impossibility. Whichever comes first.

Interested to hear where others agree/disagree.

They were playing too far apart to be effective. Long punt up the park which Collins wins and holds onto but Heffernan (or anyone else for that matter) no where near him to receive a pass or flick on.

SMAXXA
08-10-2013, 08:19 AM
They were playing too far apart to be effective. Long punt up the park which Collins wins and holds onto but Heffernan (or anyone else for that matter) no where near him to receive a pass or flick on.

I actually thought Heff won more headers than Collins last night which was a surprise. Playing with their back to goal too too far out from goal imo

PeeJay
08-10-2013, 08:19 AM
14. My own view on Pat hasn't changed - still unconvinced but think he deserves the season and will assess him at the end of the season or when top 6 becomes an impossibility. Whichever comes first.

Interested to hear where others agree/disagree.

Good post - agree with almost all of it EXCEPT Nr. 14! - Fenlon has to be shown the door ASAP ... he is responsible for the poor "football" (and one has to use the term very loosely when applied to his team ...)

SMAXXA
08-10-2013, 08:25 AM
Good post - agree with almost all of it EXCEPT Nr. 14! - Fenlon has to be shown the door ASAP ... he is responsible for the poor "football" (and one has to use the term very loosely when applied to his team ...)

Joint 4th with Aberdeen, in the quarters of the cup but aye lets get him to ****. Same as Mcinnes at the dons I'm sure he should be binned tae.

i know it's not great to watch at times but that can improve when we have more direct offensive options ala cairney, Harris and seeing more of Zuby

southsider
08-10-2013, 08:31 AM
Good post - agree with almost all of it EXCEPT Nr. 14! - Fenlon has to be shown the door ASAP ... he is responsible for the poor "football" (and one has to use the term very loosely when applied to his team ...)
Correct PJ as a good coach could turn what is not a bad squad of players into an intertaining and winning team. 2nd place could be within our sweaty, greedy grasp.

Golden Bear
08-10-2013, 08:39 AM
Correct PJ as a good coach could turn what is not a bad squad of players into an intertaining and winning team. 2nd place could be within our sweaty, greedy grasp.

:agree:

PeeJay
08-10-2013, 08:41 AM
Joint 4th with Aberdeen, in the quarters of the cup but aye lets get him to ****. Same as Mcinnes at the dons I'm sure he should be binned tae.

i know it's not great to watch at times but that can improve when we have more direct offensive options ala cairney, Harris and seeing more of Zuby

Well enjoy it as long as it lasts and you're pleased with it - 4th in the league and still in a cup ATM, it's OK! Personally, I fear a slide is just around the corner so I'd still get rid of him ... he's not fooling me :greengrin

The Sea-gull
08-10-2013, 08:42 AM
Good post - agree with almost all of it EXCEPT Nr. 14! - Fenlon has to be shown the door ASAP ... he is responsible for the poor "football" (and one has to use the term very loosely when applied to his team ...)

I'm no PF fan and remain totally unconvinced by him. Don't think he had the credentials to get the Hibs job but said to myself from day 1 that I would not call for his head as long as he met minimum realistic targets which I feel he has, just, since he has been here. We had to give this manager at least till the end of this season as the short reigns of Collins, Mixu, Yogi and CC have done us no favours. Only replace it if it is broke beyond repair, if you can patch it up and see how it goes for a wee while then that may work out best in the long run. That might be the case with PF.

By minimum targets, I mean this for PF:-

Season 1 - save us from relegation. Done.
Season 2 - get us away from the relegation battle and get us challenging for top 6. Done.
Season 3 - get us into the top 6, ideally top 4 and competing for 2nd. Do this and gets a deal for next season, don't and he's out.

Frazerbob
08-10-2013, 08:46 AM
Wanted to post a few things last night but forum is always crowded after a match and wanted to think about a few things too.

1. Terrible performance for 3/4s of the game last night. Defence looked shaky, midfield unbalanced and strikers not in the game.

2. A good win though, these sort of games are potentially tricky and we have slipped up before so credit to the players for sticking at it.

3. The win was largely, but not entirely, down to luck more than a tactical master class by PF. Manager deserves a certain degree of credit for making changes which won the game but there is no doubt he was lucky we were still in the game at that point. Play like that most weeks and we will lose more than we win.

4. Ben Williams is a fantastic shot-stopper. A bit suspect on crosses but compared to the keepers we have been subjected to in the last 10 years (perhaps only Stack and the brief spell of the Mad Monk offering any competition) he is outstanding.

5. We continue to look unconvincing at the back. Right back seems to have a make-shift look whoever we play there though that could be solved by a fit Clancy returning and getting a run. Something doesn't seem right about McGivern and Hanlon remains shaky almost 6 years after making his first team debut. Him and Nelson are not the first XI quality required if we want to do well. Even with a fully fit McPake, Fenlon has neglected to sign a real quaility centre half which has been needed since he came to us.

6. Liam Craig offers us something we haven't had since Dean Shiels left nearly 5 years ago. A genunie goal threat from midfield. He also offers a calm head when defending - he looks to play a long pass rather than punt it clear.

7. Thomson and Taiwo are too similar, too defensive and get in each others way. One or the other for me and it has to be Thomson based on this season and general experience and quality. Move Robertson into the centre with KT and it would give us better balance in the centre and allow Zouby to get a shot out wide on the right.

8. Our strikers aren't scoring enough goals. Early days yet for both JC and Heff but they need better service. Heff for me has been more impressive than JC. Tin hat on here but at 200k I would have expected more than 2 goals in 9 games from JC, irrespective of the service he has and the adaptation to a new league.

9. I remain unconvinced that we will ever play good football regularly under PF. I just don't think he has that in him but to be honest if given the choice over winning football matches and playing nice stuff, it will be the former every time for me. That said, he still has to blood Zoubi and Harris and Cairney have to come back so maybe there is creative light at the end of the tunnel.

10. The GIRUY style posts on the match day thread from one or two last night after we took the lead were needless. We all want Hibs to score goals and win games. I didn't see many people going OTT with their posts during the game. I just saw lots of people telling it how it was - a poor display. A win does not change the fact that it was a poor display.

11. Michael Stewart has got a lot of flack but some of what he says on Pat rings true and he is paid to offer an opinion. The presenter Kenny McIntyre really seems to have a problem with Hibs and loves jobby stirring whenever he is on the air especially with Stewart. Think McIntyre must get paid a bonus everytime he can get the "John Collins saga" mentioned on air, he never fails to get the conversation round to it even though it happened in 2007 FFS.

12. The Sportsound team sounded gutted that we won and that was PLEASING to hear!

13. We have had a "poor" start to the season yet are level on points with Aberdeen who have been "brilliant" and were due to sweep all before them.

14. My own view on Pat hasn't changed - still unconvinced but think he deserves the season and will assess him at the end of the season or when top 6 becomes an impossibility. Whichever comes first.

Interested to hear where others agree/disagree.

Great post...agree with every point. As I said in another thread, PF has got us to 4th and we are not in any danger of relegation. He is not going to lose his job. We should now support the guy 100% and then, come the end of the season and his contract is up we thank him for his efforts in steadying the ship and part our ways. The board should be working now on his replacement who can take us to the next level with a far better footballing philosophy.

Col2
08-10-2013, 08:47 AM
Pat will feel quite smug that we are joint 4th.

This will mask the fact that we were just terrible last night. We all know deep down that this is how it's going to be with Pat in charge.

At best - the odd 30 mins good play and some wins

At worst - performances like last night and Inverness ( we got SO lucky last night)

Zoubir and Harris return are only chinks of light.

worcesterhibby
08-10-2013, 08:51 AM
Good original post...fair assessment. not much I would argue with there. Maybe a little harsh on collins. he's a penalty box striker and likes crosses...he simply doesn't get any.

Andy74
08-10-2013, 08:51 AM
Pat will feel quite smug that we are joint 4th.

This will mask the fact that we were just terrible last night. We all know deep down that this is how it's going to be with Pat in charge.

At best - the odd 30 mins good play and some wins

At worst - performances like last night and Inverness ( we got SO lucky last night)

Zoubir and Harris return are only chinks of light.

In the last 15 league games we've won 7 drawn 4 and lost 4. I think the team is getting stronger all the time. Why should I feel deep down that it's always going to be terrible??

Glesgahibby
08-10-2013, 08:59 AM
Not a good performance,slow reactions and lack of vision and awareness in defence.
I would say with a full squad available and super zub becoming a regular starter, we have as much a chance as any for second.

Islington Hibs
08-10-2013, 09:00 AM
Great post. We looked slow and disjointed until we scored. After that, for a whole 10 minutes we were pretty good.

Before the goal we were ponderous and second to everything. Perhaps these wins will build some confidence. Here's hoping.

Without Williams and lady luck we could have been 2 or 3 down before the substitutions. I would give Zubi a game from the start- he creates so many options.....

The defence hasn't shipped in many goals this season but looked very deep yesterday. We will have to play mightily better against Celtic or get cuffed.

Craig - I agree great player.

At least we are 'up there' despite poor performances. I do think that individually we have one of the best groups of players in the league but can they click?

Still all to play for and on balance I would give Fenlon support and a chance.

Thecat23
08-10-2013, 09:01 AM
Wanted to post a few things last night but forum is always crowded after a match and wanted to think about a few things too.

1. Terrible performance for 3/4s of the game last night. Defence looked shaky, midfield unbalanced and strikers not in the game.

2. A good win though, these sort of games are potentially tricky and we have slipped up before so credit to the players for sticking at it.

3. The win was largely, but not entirely, down to luck more than a tactical master class by PF. Manager deserves a certain degree of credit for making changes which won the game but there is no doubt he was lucky we were still in the game at that point. Play like that most weeks and we will lose more than we win.

4. Ben Williams is a fantastic shot-stopper. A bit suspect on crosses but compared to the keepers we have been subjected to in the last 10 years (perhaps only Stack and the brief spell of the Mad Monk offering any competition) he is outstanding.

5. We continue to look unconvincing at the back. Right back seems to have a make-shift look whoever we play there though that could be solved by a fit Clancy returning and getting a run. Something doesn't seem right about McGivern and Hanlon remains shaky almost 6 years after making his first team debut. Him and Nelson are not the first XI quality required if we want to do well. Even with a fully fit McPake, Fenlon has neglected to sign a real quaility centre half which has been needed since he came to us.

6. Liam Craig offers us something we haven't had since Dean Shiels left nearly 5 years ago. A genunie goal threat from midfield. He also offers a calm head when defending - he looks to play a long pass rather than punt it clear.

7. Thomson and Taiwo are too similar, too defensive and get in each others way. One or the other for me and it has to be Thomson based on this season and general experience and quality. Move Robertson into the centre with KT and it would give us better balance in the centre and allow Zouby to get a shot out wide on the right.

8. Our strikers aren't scoring enough goals. Early days yet for both JC and Heff but they need better service. Heff for me has been more impressive than JC. Tin hat on here but at 200k I would have expected more than 2 goals in 9 games from JC, irrespective of the service he has and the adaptation to a new league.

9. I remain unconvinced that we will ever play good football regularly under PF. I just don't think he has that in him but to be honest if given the choice over winning football matches and playing nice stuff, it will be the former every time for me. That said, he still has to blood Zoubi and Harris and Cairney have to come back so maybe there is creative light at the end of the tunnel.

10. The GIRUY style posts on the match day thread from one or two last night after we took the lead were needless. We all want Hibs to score goals and win games. I didn't see many people going OTT with their posts during the game. I just saw lots of people telling it how it was - a poor display. A win does not change the fact that it was a poor display.

11. Michael Stewart has got a lot of flack but some of what he says on Pat rings true and he is paid to offer an opinion. The presenter Kenny McIntyre really seems to have a problem with Hibs and loves jobby stirring whenever he is on the air especially with Stewart. Think McIntyre must get paid a bonus everytime he can get the "John Collins saga" mentioned on air, he never fails to get the conversation round to it even though it happened in 2007 FFS.

12. The Sportsound team sounded gutted that we won and that was PLEASING to hear!

13. We have had a "poor" start to the season yet are level on points with Aberdeen who have been "brilliant" and were due to sweep all before them.

14. My own view on Pat hasn't changed - still unconvinced but think he deserves the season and will assess him at the end of the season or when top 6 becomes an impossibility. Whichever comes first.

Interested to hear where others agree/disagree.

Good post, I only disagree with your Collins comment. I think the work he does is freighting mate. He holds it up well and rarely loses the ball. Hopefully he scores more though.

The Sea-gull
08-10-2013, 09:06 AM
Good post, I only disagree with your Collins comment. I think the work he does is freighting mate. He holds it up well and rarely loses the ball. Hopefully he scores more though.

Yeh, I thought the Collins comment would be the one that people would disagree with. Fair enough, I have maybe been a little harsh but I just think for 200k (a big out lay for an SPL these days, almost unheard of) a return of 2 goals in 9 games is not good enough.

I'm not fully judging him just yet, will do that midway through the season, again at the end of the season and think it may well be the end of next season (if he is still here) before we can really say whether the signing has been worth it.

PeterboroHibee
08-10-2013, 09:35 AM
The main points I picked up on -

5. Im not the biggest fan of Hanlon, but I think last night was down to Nelson. If your CB partner is all over the place, it almost forces you to act and cover for him, pulling you out of position as well.

8. Whilst I agree the strikers return isnt great, I think it is purely down to service. Watching the game last night, what did they actually have to work with? It really concerns me how Fenlon is sending us out, we are set up to try and not lose games (even though we are terrible at defending) and anything else is a bonus. Heffernan especially looks like he will get a lot of goals, but not if theres noone who is able to pick them out in good positions.

13. I dont think Aberdeen have been brilliant - in my opinion, with the players they have at their disposal, they are arguably under-performing. In quite a few games they havent been able to finish teams off or havent been clinical enough in front of goal. We have done well to be on the same points, but a few of them have been fairly lucky to say the least!

14. I agree. My issue with Fenlon was never really about results per se (with the exception of the really horrendous drubbings), but rather the style of football. I dont believe the way he is sending out teams is the way football should be played - Im not expecting us to play like Spain, far from it, but we have good enough players to play decent, attacking football, and they just cant seem to do it. Its just far too dull and negative for me, we may be doing well in terms of points accumulated, but we are hugely under-performing in terms of the actual quality of play.

Col2
08-10-2013, 09:53 AM
In the last 15 league games we've won 7 drawn 4 and lost 4. I think the team is getting stronger all the time. Why should I feel deep down that it's always going to be terrible??

Andy - it's just terrible to watch, most of the time. He has a rally strong squad on paper but last night like several other teams this season, we can't pass, can't defend, look slow, have no creativity.

carnoustiehibee
08-10-2013, 10:07 AM
What's the odds on fenlon getting offered the Ireland job?

Mikey_1875
08-10-2013, 10:25 AM
People are slating us last night when we have picked up a valuable 3 points at an spl venue. Fenlon and hibs were booed at ht last night absolutely ridiculously. Fair enough I wasn't champagne football but Fenlons tactics were not half bad and we got the win. People are giving the admiral a two on the match rating thread are you having a laugh man has a clean sheet under his belt. Good win and one we would lost last season. The two centre mids were dominated by Osborne. 3 points and onwards and upwards what else do we want. As blobby once said If you want entertainment get yourself to the motion picture house.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m/)

HUTCHYHIBBY
08-10-2013, 10:31 AM
The booing at half time was because we were pish!

Hibercelona
08-10-2013, 10:32 AM
One we would have lost last season?

Actually, it was one of those games that we could play again 20 times over and take nothing from. We were extremely forunate.

As for Fenlon and his tactics, they were really no different than against Inverness.

cleanyman
08-10-2013, 10:32 AM
Partick were all over us in that first half, we were terrible.

HH81
08-10-2013, 10:34 AM
I guess you will take a bit of stick but I agree with a lot you say.

Some of the posts on the match thread were a joke. I see none of them posted after we scored and I was proved correct. Sometimes in football you have to grind a result out, job done.

Mon the Hibs.

Hibercelona
08-10-2013, 10:42 AM
I guess you will take a bit of stick but I agree with a lot you say.

Some of the posts on the match thread were a joke. I see none of them posted after we scored and I was proved correct. Sometimes in football you have to grind a result out, job done.

Mon the Hibs.

Theres a difference between grinding it out and pure dumb luck.

Last night wasn't a grinding out performance, it was just as dreadful as it was against Inverness.

HH81
08-10-2013, 10:45 AM
Theres a difference between grinding it out and pure dumb luck.

Last night wasn't a grinding out performance, it was just as dreadful as it was against Inverness.

All teams need a bit of luck, Hibs got it last night and we won. Guess you only want Hibs to win if they outplay teams?

GreenCastle
08-10-2013, 10:46 AM
I agree with the majority of the original post.

Several of the issues are linked - shaky defence = low aimless balls up the pitch - lack of composure = panic and hoof.

Strikers lack of service = lack of ball to the midfield (lack of creative midfielders).

Hanlon playing below his best = playing Nelson alongside him

McGivern drop of form = his best position I believe would be alongside Hanlon.

I was delighted Hibs won last night but my worry is we could be still doing better especially with what we have at our disposal. High standards yes...but I want us up there challenging for 2nd / 3rd in this sub standard league with no Sevco and a weakened yams team.

I have mentioned it before but first half performances / attempts at goal is just not good enough. Strangely we do seem to do better in the 2nd half of games but apart from St Mirren - there hasn't been many full 90 min performances.

We now have Celtic / Aberdeen and then the club with no shame.

I wouldn't be surprised if they take 3 or 4 of us if we start slow. Aberdeen will see where we are and how good they actually are. The League cup game = massive pressure on Fenlon / the team to win this after last time's joke at Tynie. Lose this and he would be under severe pressure to go again.

GreenArmy1875
08-10-2013, 10:49 AM
It was shocking to watch at times last night. We were second to everything last night. Dont know how many times we stood off them/left them unmarked all over the park. Just hope who ever our new manager next year gets us playing football and competing all over the pitch. Pat has done a good job steadying the ship and bringing some good quality to the club but our team is rank to watch.

The Sea-gull
08-10-2013, 10:53 AM
The main points I picked up on -

5. Im not the biggest fan of Hanlon, but I think last night was down to Nelson. If your CB partner is all over the place, it almost forces you to act and cover for him, pulling you out of position as well.

8. Whilst I agree the strikers return isnt great, I think it is purely down to service. Watching the game last night, what did they actually have to work with? It really concerns me how Fenlon is sending us out, we are set up to try and not lose games (even though we are terrible at defending) and anything else is a bonus. Heffernan especially looks like he will get a lot of goals, but not if theres noone who is able to pick them out in good positions.

13. I dont think Aberdeen have been brilliant - in my opinion, with the players they have at their disposal, they are arguably under-performing. In quite a few games they havent been able to finish teams off or havent been clinical enough in front of goal. We have done well to be on the same points, but a few of them have been fairly lucky to say the least!

14. I agree. My issue with Fenlon was never really about results per se (with the exception of the really horrendous drubbings), but rather the style of football. I dont believe the way he is sending out teams is the way football should be played - Im not expecting us to play like Spain, far from it, but we have good enough players to play decent, attacking football, and they just cant seem to do it. Its just far too dull and negative for me, we may be doing well in terms of points accumulated, but we are hugely under-performing in terms of the actual quality of play.

Sorry I don't think Aberdeen have been brilliant either, my Aberdeen reference in point 13 was really just to relflect the fact that while we were supposed to be tom kite and Aberdeen were going to storm the league, 9 games in we are level. I'm just highlighting that maybe we have not been as bad as some think or maybe they have not been as good. A bit of both probably. It's just McInnes is getting credit for doing a good job while PF is getting largely slated.

FWIW I do think that eventually Aberdeen will finish a wee bit ahead of us but based on things as they are, we are doing well to keep pace with a much fancied side. A better comparison of the two sides might be made in a couple of weeks as we have Celtic still to play when they are at Tannadice and then play them. Realistically we will probably lose to Celtic and if they manage to beat Utd and us then they go 6 points ahead. Or if we lose to Celtic, they drop someting at Tannadice and beat them we go a wee bit ahead. Further if we beat Celtic! Lots of combinations of results which can make it interesting.

B.H.F.C
08-10-2013, 10:59 AM
Joint 4th with Aberdeen, in the quarters of the cup but aye lets get him to ****. Same as Mcinnes at the dons I'm sure he should be binned tae.

i know it's not great to watch at times but that can improve when we have more direct offensive options ala cairney, Harris and seeing more of Zuby

Of those you mention, how many do you see getting on the park at one time? Pat won't budge from his two holding midfielders. I think Harris will be used in a similar way that we are seeing Zoubir just now. And to be honest I'm not sure where he fits Cairney in to the way he plays. Craig is going to continue on the left for so to accommodate Cairney he'd need to change the system as he certainly isn't a right winger. I don't see him doing that.

I agree that they are all players who give us something different. I just think we will get one of them in the starting line up at a time, at a push.

southsider
08-10-2013, 11:16 AM
The lotto winners have just put £750,000 into Thisle. Very well done. Are you watching STF ? Omg if i had half of his money then Pep might be our manager and not PF !

Hibs7
08-10-2013, 11:17 AM
Remember we have played nearly all our games against bottom six Teams.. Let's see how we cope in the next few weeks .. Play like we did last night and we are in for another 7-0 hammering !!

Smartie
08-10-2013, 11:25 AM
I agree with the majority of the original post.

Several of the issues are linked - shaky defence = low aimless balls up the pitch - lack of composure = panic and hoof.

Strikers lack of service = lack of ball to the midfield (lack of creative midfielders).

Hanlon playing below his best = playing Nelson alongside him

McGivern drop of form = his best position I believe would be alongside Hanlon.

I was delighted Hibs won last night but my worry is we could be still doing better especially with what we have at our disposal. High standards yes...but I want us up there challenging for 2nd / 3rd in this sub standard league with no Sevco and a weakened yams team.

I have mentioned it before but first half performances / attempts at goal is just not good enough. Strangely we do seem to do better in the 2nd half of games but apart from St Mirren - there hasn't been many full 90 min performances.

We now have Celtic / Aberdeen and then the club with no shame.

I wouldn't be surprised if they take 3 or 4 of us if we start slow. Aberdeen will see where we are and how good they actually are. The League cup game = massive pressure on Fenlon / the team to win this after last time's joke at Tynie. Lose this and he would be under severe pressure to go again.


About 2 weeks ago I was thinking about how well Hanlon had started the season. I can't remember one goal that could be in any way attributed to him, and had put this down (partly) to the calming influence of Nelson next to him.

Unfortunately problems seemed to creep in during the Stranraer game and the pair of them have been pretty shaky since then.

Hopefully they get it sorted, I've never been a huge fan of Hanlon but felt he started the season really well.

The Sea-gull
08-10-2013, 11:42 AM
All teams need a bit of luck, Hibs got it last night and we won. Guess you only want Hibs to win if they outplay teams?

Think you might be missing a point that a lot of people are making?

Where has any Hibs fan on here ever said they only want wins if we out play teams? Football is about winning first and foremost but I think what a lot of people are trying to say is that we were poor last night, very poor and therefore fortunate to get the win. I don't think there is anyone who doesn't want the win and we'll take it even more so having not played well.

I do think people are more than entitled to criticise last night's performance during and after the game. Nobody is criticising the result. Only the performance.

proud_and_green
08-10-2013, 12:02 PM
For those who are defending the game last night on the basis of we won and that's three points in the bag, you ignoring the blatantly obvious. A simple comparison between the two thistle matches will show where we are. Against ICT we were put to the sword against the Jags we weren't why was that? Because, partly thanks to Williams, the Jags were unable to capitalise on their domination of the play not because we necessarily prevented them.

4th in the league is partly a reflection of the order of the fixtures and the real picture only becomes clear when you view a full turn of the wheel.

I am usually a happy clapper, but i can not stand this dire, boring football. We have no movement in or out of possession, when we lose the ball an opposition player is always there whereas ours are spectators, we always look for square or backwards balls and can not string three passes together - yet i look at the squad and think we must be capable of better, Lewis Stevenson is right, we do have a good squad - so how come we can't play well.

There is nothing entertaining in Hibs at the moment and we can look at 3 pts, 4th in the league as much as we want but for me it does not hide a team that is not performing as it should. Neither is this a team in the making, other managers can get a team working together and playing well after a week on the training ground so why not our manager after 2 years....?

This can not continue!!!

Zazu62
08-10-2013, 01:16 PM
Thomson and taiwo can't play together , neither can Thomson and OTJ or taiwo and OTJ, they're to defensive. We just need one. Move Craig or Robertson into the middle and play Zoubir/Stanton on the wing.

Thoughts?

southsider
08-10-2013, 01:31 PM
Thomson and taiwo can't play together , neither can Thomson and OTJ or taiwo and OTJ, they're to defensive. We just need one. Move Craig or Robertson into the middle and play Zoubir/Stanton on the wing.

Thoughts?

Williams GK, new RB, anyone in the U20's ? Stevenson LB. Nelson & McGivern. Robertson RM Craig CM KT LM. Harris (when fit) Wide Right Heff CF Zoubir Wide Left......starting eleven.

lord bunberry
08-10-2013, 01:35 PM
In the last 15 league games we've won 7 drawn 4 and lost 4. I think the team is getting stronger all the time. Why should I feel deep down that it's always going to be terrible??

What I don't understand is why is a team who have done so well in picking up so many points recently playing with no confidence. You would expect us to be brimming with confidence knocking the ball about. We have to accept that fenlon is going to be here to the end of the season and get behind the team. I just hope that when harris and cairney return we open up and play better football.

B.H.F.C
08-10-2013, 01:52 PM
What I don't understand is why is a team who have done so well in picking up so many points recently playing with no confidence. You would expect us to be brimming with confidence knocking the ball about. We have to accept that fenlon is going to be here to the end of the season and get behind the team. I just hope that when harris and cairney return we open up and play better football.

Thats the way I see it. As I said on one of the other threads my concern is how much we will see the likes of Harris and Cairney on the pitch though.

It became apparent earlier in the season that Fenlon is here for the season and although I'm not happy about it I've kind of accepted it now. We've had some decent results but we can't sustain them playing like we did last night.

Stringer
08-10-2013, 02:09 PM
If we put in the same performance as we did against Thistle, Celtic will destroy us.

We need to do better in games versus top 6 teams

hughio
08-10-2013, 03:10 PM
For those who are defending the game last night on the basis of we won and that's three points in the bag, you ignoring the blatantly obvious. A simple comparison between the two thistle matches will show where we are. Against ICT we were put to the sword against the Jags we weren't why was that? Because, partly thanks to Williams, the Jags were unable to capitalise on their domination of the play not because we necessarily prevented them.

4th in the league is partly a reflection of the order of the fixtures and the real picture only becomes clear when you view a full turn of the wheel.

I am usually a happy clapper, but i can not stand this dire, boring football. We have no movement in or out of possession, when we lose the ball an opposition player is always there whereas ours are spectators, we always look for square or backwards balls and can not string three passes together - yet i look at the squad and think we must be capable of better, Lewis Stevenson is right, we do have a good squad - so how come we can't play well.

There is nothing entertaining in Hibs at the moment and we can look at 3 pts, 4th in the league as much as we want but for me it does not hide a team that is not performing as it should. Neither is this a team in the making, other managers can get a team working together and playing well after a week on the training ground so why not our manager after 2 years....?

This can not continue!!!

Agree with all of that.

Static,ferarty football. Nobody prepared to make runs.

Dull as ditchwater.

Compared to Thistle we were simply crap.

Eh hello management...wake up!

Everyone can see it but you.

Unseen work
08-10-2013, 03:26 PM
Based on last night:

Thought Hanlon was solid and dealt with a lot of the danger well, but him and Nelson don't have a great understanding. Nelson is very good in the air but misjudged a lot of punts up the park, also very poor distribution.

Collins and heff got no service but everytime the did their touch etc was brutal

Craig scored a fantastic goal but was very poor with his touch and passing and to me when there's a 50/50 he seems to back off and let them gain possession

Stevenson was solid at right back and was good on the ball

Thomson looks head and shoulder above everyone, very rarely gives the ball away, and is very smart when on it even in tight situations.

Taiwo, IMO that's the worst av seen him constantly gave the ball away and never looked himself

Robertson looked pretty shattered to me? Wasn't getting up and down as much as normal

For me the subs changed the game, Tudor jones was a lot more solid in the middle and kept the ball, won a couple of 50/50s too. And zoubir cause a couple of problems and set up the goal!

Hibby Bairn
08-10-2013, 03:31 PM
Should have been binned after 0-7.

Still we trundle along. Same gash football. Same lack of movement. Hardly create any chances. All the reasons why I don't have a season ticket this year and have been to one game (Stranraer) since Malmo game.

Last night was abysmal.

Elephant Stone
08-10-2013, 03:37 PM
Should have been binned after 0-7.

Still we trundle along. Same gash football. Same lack of movement. Hardly create any chances. All the reasons why I don't have a season ticket this year and have been to one game (Stranraer) since Malmo game.

Last night was abysmal.

Come back soon please.

Hibby Bairn
08-10-2013, 03:39 PM
Come back soon please.

There is quite a few guys on here that make flippant comments like this. But there are more guys like me who have followed hibs for over 30 years who are watching what is going on and deciding to just give it a miss. That is a major issue no?

JIm
08-10-2013, 03:40 PM
About 2 weeks ago I was thinking about how well Hanlon had started the season. I can't remember one goal that could be in any way attributed to him, and had put this down (partly) to the calming influence of Nelson next to him.

Unfortunately problems seemed to creep in during the Stranraer game and the pair of them have been pretty shaky since then.

Hopefully they get it sorted, I've never been a huge fan of Hanlon but felt he started the season really well.

Only one that jumps to mind for me was one against Motherwell (cant remember what one) but Hanlon stepped out, Full back was knowhere to be seen and striker ran past Nelson with ease.

He's done ok so far this season though IMO.

JimBHibees
08-10-2013, 03:40 PM
Should have been binned after 0-7.

Still we trundle along. Same gash football. Same lack of movement. Hardly create any chances. All the reasons why I don't have a season ticket this year and have been to one game (Stranraer) since Malmo game.

Last night was abysmal.

What do you mean, Stranraer was an end to end cup tie goal fest. :greengrin

Elephant Stone
08-10-2013, 03:45 PM
There is quite a few guys on here that make flippant comments like this. But there are more guys like me who have followed hibs for over 30 years who are watching what is going on and deciding to just give it a miss. That is a major issue no?

What is going on?

Andy74
08-10-2013, 03:49 PM
There is quite a few guys on here that make flippant comments like this. But there are more guys like me who have followed hibs for over 30 years who are watching what is going on and deciding to just give it a miss. That is a major issue no?

Other than a continual improvement of our squad and position over the last couple of years, what are you saying is going on?

And if you aren't going what you basing it on?

matty_f
08-10-2013, 04:00 PM
I don't think either team were particularly easy on the eye last night, and I think some allowance should be made for the conditions, which were not conducive to good passing football.

I feel it's harsh hounding the manager for a game he's actually won, especially when it put us level on points with 4th place. I don't buy that we were lucky, it felt like it last night but in retrospect our goalkeeper did his job on the few occasions that Partick managed to get a shot on target. That wasn't lucky any more than Craig's excellent finish was lucky.

We played better after Zoubir and OTJ came on, a shift in tactics and personnel gave us the win.

We would, I'm sure, prefer to watch a much slicker and adventurous style of play but when -like last night- that's not happening we need to make sure we win the match.

There is definitely more to come from this Hibs side, I think the right hand side of defence still causes us problems in the absence of Clancy or at least Maybury, and once that issue is resolved and McGivern gets games under his belt, I think we'll start to see more fluent, attractive football.

IWasThere2016
08-10-2013, 04:04 PM
Joint 4th with Aberdeen, in the quarters of the cup but aye lets get him to ****. Same as Mcinnes at the dons I'm sure he should be binned tae.


Ask Sheep fans if they've enjoying the football/been entertained and to a man/woman it will be a 'yes' .. And therein lies the significant difference to Hibs.

TrinityHibs
08-10-2013, 04:09 PM
I thought Thistle were set up to attack and wanted it more than Hibs. Pat set the team out not to lose again but the guys on the pitch seemed to have difficulty understanding what was expected of them. Thistle had more movement and closed us down so the ball went sideways then back then further back then hoof. Despite that the team that was put out would have been close to my choice only putting Lewis at LB and Alan Maybury at RB. I know he wasn't fit but what I'm saying is that's nearly the team that played well against St Mirren. Maybe if Pat encouraged players to go forward we would see some improvement. For what its worth I thought big Tudor Jones coming on made a difference to a midfield battle we were losing. Best time on the pitch for him since he arrived.

blackpoolhibs
08-10-2013, 04:14 PM
Other than a continual improvement of our squad and position over the last couple of years, what are you saying is going on?

And if you aren't going what you basing it on?

The most mind numbing football since Bertie Auld is what i see going on, and the one reason i'm not on a train every home game now.

That pish i watched last night is not for me.

Pretty Boy
08-10-2013, 04:14 PM
What is going on?

Whatever is going on is being noticed by a fair few people.

Remember under Mowbray and Collins when 10k season tickets was pretty common and crowds of 14k+ happened quite regularly. Well now we are at 8k season tickets (a remarkable achievement given some of the football and results of the last few years) and we are barely breaking a thousand in home walk ups if we are lucky. Even games against Celtic and Hearts fail to see a significant boost in home crowds these days. So over the last few years between 2 and 6 thousand fans have decided they don't want to watch Hibs regularly anymore.

That's a massive problem regardless of how flippant some people want to be about it.

fat freddy
08-10-2013, 04:22 PM
I have briefly scanned last nights match thread and this thread and I wonder if I live on the same planet as some of the more hysterical posters...My view is Nelson had a fairly good match other than his glaring error...He won most of his headers and mopped up most stuff that came his way...He isn't employed to pass the ball like Beckenbaur so im happy for him to clear his lines when he has to...He done what was asked of him and we kept a clean sheet.

Progress?...I can see it...maybe others cant and maybe im being over patient but i think we have the makings of a decent side.

Pat Fenlon?...He's made mistakes and put his hands up...I like him and i think he will turn Hibs around given time.

.net?...sometimes it can be funny but at other times it seems as if the place is populated by a lot of 'bed wetters' (i love that phrase, it says so much) who are over eager to jump on the players backs when things aren't going our way...We are 4th in the league...Hearts are bottom...whats the problem again?

Dashing Bob S
08-10-2013, 04:26 PM
Hibs were crap but got away with it this time. Play as bad as that and most times we'll be on the end of a severe gubbing.

michael_wilson1
08-10-2013, 04:28 PM
james collins just doesnt look comfortable on the ball at all for me , n thats in all games ive seen him in not just last night when the surface was wet , id be giving vine a shot up front and putting zooby on the right midfield or the centre

Elephant Stone
08-10-2013, 04:32 PM
Whatever is going on is being noticed by a fair few people.

Remember under Mowbray and Collins when 10k season tickets was pretty common and crowds of 14k+ happened quite regularly. Well now we are at 8k season tickets (a remarkable achievement given some of the football and results of the last few years) and we are barely breaking a thousand in home walk ups if we are lucky. Even games against Celtic and Hearts fail to see a significant boost in home crowds these days. So over the last few years between 2 and 6 thousand fans have decided they don't want to watch Hibs regularly anymore.

That's a massive problem regardless of how flippant some people want to be about it.

I would never be flippant about loss of support. I quoted the person who said that Fenlon should be binned. What is he, a rotting banana skin? The abuse he's taken on here has been obscene. When things were going badly I suppose it could be expected but at the moment- when we've won 4 of our last 5, are undefeated 7 in our last 8, have a cup quarter final to look forward to in a few weeks and another possible Scottish cup run to look forward to- I think it's time to stick up for him when the abuse continues, especially on the matchday thread of a victory.

snooky
08-10-2013, 04:34 PM
The booing at half time was because we were pish!

Booed by fans who care enough to spend hard earned cash on a trip to the Weege on a Monday night.
Yep, who needs supporters like that? Better with the ones who have had enough and don't bother anymore (like many).

ManBearPig
08-10-2013, 04:36 PM
I have briefly scanned last nights match thread and this thread and I wonder if I live on the same planet as some of the more hysterical posters...My view is Nelson had a fairly good match other than his glaring error...He won most of his headers and mopped up most stuff that came his way...He isn't employed to pass the ball like Beckenbaur so im happy for him to clear his lines when he has to...He done what was asked of him and we kept a clean sheet.

Progress?...I can see it...maybe others cant and maybe im being over patient but i think we have the makings of a decent side.

Pat Fenlon?...He's made mistakes and put his hands up...I like him and i think he will turn Hibs around given time.

.net?...sometimes it can be funny but at other times it seems as if the place is populated by a lot of 'bed wetters' (i love that phrase, it says so much) who are over eager to jump on the players backs when things aren't going our way...We are 4th in the league...Hearts are bottom...whats the problem again?

Agreed but forgot giving THE mention they're not worth even that. We should be aiming to compare against the top npt the bottom dwellers

HibbyAndy
08-10-2013, 04:47 PM
Hibs were honking last night.Absolute garbage.Anyone that disagrees needs a reality check..No urgency no pace no movement no stringing 2 passes together, Nothing.Absolute drivel to watch but got the points.

Hibby Bairn
08-10-2013, 04:51 PM
I would never be flippant about loss of support. I quoted the person who said that Fenlon should be binned. What is he, a rotting banana skin? The abuse he's taken on here has been obscene. When things were going badly I suppose it could be expected but at the moment- when we've won 4 of our last 5, are undefeated 7 in our last 8, have a cup quarter final to look forward to in a few weeks and another possible Scottish cup run to look forward to- I think it's time to stick up for him when the abuse continues, especially on the matchday thread of a victory.

I'm not abusing him. I quite like him.

But as a club we have decided to accept that a 7-0 defeat at home is acceptable. I don't accept that and believe that Fenlon should have been relieved of his position that evening.

I have not noticed anything that would make me change my mind since nor that we wouldn't incur a similar defeat if we played them again right now.

For the players that we have our football style is abysmal.

HUTCHYHIBBY
08-10-2013, 05:09 PM
Booed by fans who care enough to spend hard earned cash on a trip to the Weege on a Monday night.
Yep, who needs supporters like that? Better with the ones who have had enough and don't bother anymore (like many).

To be honest I'm in the latter camp these days but went along last night as I fancied a wee day out, all it did was serve to remind me why I'm not an uber fan anymore.

Elephant Stone
08-10-2013, 05:11 PM
I'm not abusing him. I quite like him.

But as a club we have decided to accept that a 7-0 defeat at home is acceptable. I don't accept that and believe that Fenlon should have been relieved of his position that evening.

I have not noticed anything that would make me change my mind since nor that we wouldn't incur a similar defeat if we played them again right now.

For the players that we have our football style is abysmal.

Nothing Hibs have done explicitly or even implicitly has said that a 7-0 home defeat is acceptable. Sacking our manager on the basis of a European result is a ridiculous notion, in my opinion, and it appears the board have been right to back him: we've gradually improved under his reign and it appears we're still improving.

The squad Pat has built has been the strongest I can remember in very long time. Mowbray's team had solid foundations in youth, the team we have at the minute has been built almost entirely by Pat and it's a strong one. The indications are that it's improving and I think it's time for the fans to back it, it's certainly time for the degrading comments to stop, he's working hard in the interests of the club and it seems that his work may actually be working. The style of play has been bad, I agree, but I'd like to hope it will improve. I definitely don't think it's fair to use it against him while we're winning frequently, are joint-fourth in the league, and have a decent prospect of more cup runs.

matty_f
08-10-2013, 05:13 PM
I would never be flippant about loss of support. I quoted the person who said that Fenlon should be binned. What is he, a rotting banana skin? The abuse he's taken on here has been obscene. When things were going badly I suppose it could be expected but at the moment- when we've won 4 of our last 5, are undefeated 7 in our last 8, have a cup quarter final to look forward to in a few weeks and another possible Scottish cup run to look forward to- I think it's time to stick up for him when the abuse continues, especially on the matchday thread of a victory.

Totally agree.

marinello59
08-10-2013, 05:23 PM
Hibs were honking last night.Absolute garbage.Anyone that disagrees needs a reality check..No urgency no pace no movement no stringing 2 passes together, Nothing.Absolute drivel to watch but got the points.

Hibs played an awful style of football last night. It will drive fans away. But absolute garbage? It proved to be effective because we won the match.

weonlywon6-2
08-10-2013, 05:36 PM
We lose a game and there is moaning on here.we win a game and we are still moaning?????

We still need time to gel with so many new players,it aint pretty at times,but to win and play poorly cant be bad

joe breezy
08-10-2013, 05:37 PM
Hibs played an awful style of football last night. It will drive fans away. But absolute garbage? It proved to be effective because we won the match.

It looked garbage to me other than a sublime moment.

proud_and_green
08-10-2013, 06:20 PM
We lose a game and there is moaning on here.we win a game and we are still moaning?????

We still need time to gel with so many new players,it aint pretty at times,but to win and play poorly cant be bad

i really do not accept the new team argument, need time to gel etc. Loads of teams change significantly and don't take a quarter of a season to gel. Neither do Managers need that long to get used to their players.

The bottom line is that we should be a lot better than we are - notwithstanding positions in the league - I do not see any improvement over the performances under Calderwood or Yogi and for me that has to change. I spend my time at games waiting for the mistakes - don't have to wait long - and am never surprised when they happen. I expect us to play badly now and that really annoys me, my expectations are being managed but not in the way I want them to be.

gaz1875
08-10-2013, 06:27 PM
Thomson and taiwo can't play together , neither can Thomson and OTJ or taiwo and OTJ, they're to defensive. We just need one. Move Craig or Robertson into the middle and play Zoubir/Stanton on the wing.

Thoughts?

I have said the same for a few weeks, Thomson is incredibly slow, but wins the ball more often than not, yesterday was a good example. Trouble is he passes to Taiwo who also has no pace, and its the back or sideways pass until Thomson wins it back again. How many times have we watched both of them have the opportunity to burst forward only to stop at the half way line. Craig and Robertson on the other hand would drive us forward. Look at his performance against Stranraer as an example from centre midfield. Until PF tries it against an SPL team we will never find out if that is the solution. :dunno:

weonlywon6-2
08-10-2013, 06:27 PM
i really do not accept the new team argument, need time to gel etc. Loads of teams change significantly and don't take a quarter of a season to gel. Neither do Managers need that long to get used to their players.

The bottom line is that we should be a lot better than we are - notwithstanding positions in the league - I do not see any improvement over the performances under Calderwood or Yogi and for me that has to change. I spend my time at games waiting for the mistakes - don't have to wait long - and am never surprised when they happen. I expect us to play badly now and that really annoys me, my expectations are being managed but not in the way I want them to be.


Teams do take time to gel,some quicker than others.i know it can be painful to watch but we live in hope it will get better.when harris and cairney get back i think we will kick on.

Waxy
08-10-2013, 06:40 PM
Really good signings we've made recently.It's a huge plus point for us.
Get them playing as a unit and it's good times ahead.

rcarter1
08-10-2013, 06:47 PM
I have said the same for a few weeks, Thomson is incredibly slow, but wins the ball more often than not, yesterday was a good example. Trouble is he passes to Taiwo who also has no pace, and its the back or sideways pass until Thomson wins it back again. How many times have we watched both of them have the opportunity to burst forward only to stop at the half way line. Craig and Robertson on the other hand would drive us forward. Look at his performance against Stranraer as an example from centre midfield. Until PF tries it against an SPL team we will never find out if that is the solution. :dunno:

Agree with much of this. All are good players, but the lack of: confidence/pace/desire/managerial directions (?), regularly hold us back. It would be good to see this change. Question is if it does, will we start leaking goals more?

GreenOnions
08-10-2013, 06:59 PM
Whatever is going on is being noticed by a fair few people.

Remember under Mowbray and Collins when 10k season tickets was pretty common and crowds of 14k+ happened quite regularly. Well now we are at 8k season tickets (a remarkable achievement given some of the football and results of the last few years) and we are barely breaking a thousand in home walk ups if we are lucky. Even games against Celtic and Hearts fail to see a significant boost in home crowds these days. So over the last few years between 2 and 6 thousand fans have decided they don't want to watch Hibs regularly anymore.

That's a massive problem regardless of how flippant some people want to be about it.

This is the nub of it for me. Pat needs to get bums on seats at Easter Road or he will be away at the end of the season.

To do that he needs to get the team playing every time with the kind of energy and skill we saw against St Mirren.

Like some I see quite a number of positives - the squad he's built is better than most, the team is normally more resilient than I've often see in the past and the average points per game achieved continues to rise.

However, there is no doubt that the team is set up too defensively and it results in us being unable to get other teams sufficiently "on the back foot". The result is very poor entertainment most of the time and an underachieving squad losing confidence in themselves.

Pat has been unlucky with injuries to Clancy, Maybury and McGivern - giving us defensive problems. However - this has been compounded IMO by the inclusion of Nelson at centre back. He is definitely the poorest central defender I've ever seen play for Hibs. His distribution is very poor and he has been either wholly or partly responsible for goals conceded against Motherwell, Dundee Utd, Hearts, Kilmarnock, Stranraer (2) and Caley Thistle. There was nearly another calamity one last night as well that was saved by a Paul Hanlon tackle. Pat must identify this and get either McPake or Forster in beside Hanlon as a matter of urgency.

I also agree with many on here that he needs to find a way to include another attack-minded midfielder in the team. Again - he's been unlucky with injuries to Harris and Cairney and the fact that Handling has not really been able yet to take his chance. However, although Zoubir and Stanton are both young and will not be the messiah for us we need to get at least one of them on the pitch much earlier or even from the start.

The Leith Dutch
08-10-2013, 09:05 PM
One of my concerns with Fenlon is that when we have done well I'm not convinced he really understands why.

One result of that is that he isn't tailoring the team to the opponents.

Against Partick last night - and without intending any disrespect - I think we could have played a more attacking team and tried to push them back.

Maybe started with Zoubir (though I'm not certain he's ready), maybe Handling on and maybe not both Thompson and Taiwo.

I just struggle with the idea that he thinks the best team away to Inverness is the same team as we play against Partick.

jacomo
08-10-2013, 10:15 PM
Whatever is going on is being noticed by a fair few people.

Remember under Mowbray and Collins when 10k season tickets was pretty common and crowds of 14k+ happened quite regularly. Well now we are at 8k season tickets (a remarkable achievement given some of the football and results of the last few years) and we are barely breaking a thousand in home walk ups if we are lucky. Even games against Celtic and Hearts fail to see a significant boost in home crowds these days. So over the last few years between 2 and 6 thousand fans have decided they don't want to watch Hibs regularly anymore.

That's a massive problem regardless of how flippant some people want to be about it.

:agree:

I can understand why those with attend most games are defensive - they've stuck at it and results like last night reward their continued faith. But there's no question that Hibs are failing to resonate with the broader fan base right now.

NAE NOOKIE
08-10-2013, 10:25 PM
I only saw the game on TV .... hats off to those that went.

What I saw for 80% of the game was a Partick team who tried to play the ball wide and through the midfield as much as possible and who but for the lack of a cutting edge would have been at least 2 up before Hibs scored.

As for Hibs. For the vast majority of the game we were just terrible. No joined up play, no width, no forward runs from the midfield not a single cross and not a single passing move that I can remember which created any danger to the Partick goal. For the most part when we did manage to get the ball off of Thistle it was ......... sideways pass, sideways pass .... ball to Stevenson ... 10 yard run ... stop ... pass back to Hanlon / Nelson .... 5 yard pass to Taiwo ... sideways pass, sideways pass .... 10 yard pass back to Hanlon / Nelson .... hooooof .... 60 yard punt in the general direction of Collins / Heffernan. Partick possession.

I would love Hibs to get back to the Cavalier stylish football played in the early 70s or during the mid 00s. But at the moment I would just like to see us be able to play the ball through the midfield in a decent basic style involving at least 4 joined up passes at least one of which goes forward like most of the other SP clubs seem to be able to manage.

The way we play currently means we make no decent chances for poor old Collins and Heffernan who both deserve a medal for not walking off the pitch in a bloody huff after 60 minutes of every game.

I dont expect Hibs to beat teams by playing like a footballing version of the Harlem Globe Trotters ..... I do expect them to be able to play football which involves movement, basic skill and a determination to get forward with craft and invention when they get the ball.

Theres no point in having the players if we dont have the courage to play.

Well done Ben Williams.

Saorsa
08-10-2013, 10:42 PM
Hibs played an awful style of football last night. It will drive fans away. But absolute garbage? It proved to be effective because we won the match.I would say it absolute garbage if it drives folk away and naebody wants tae watch it, what's the point if naebody wants tae watch it?

You think we won the match because the way we played was effective? Really! I dinnae think we were the least bit effective and we certainly didnae stop them playing, they murdered us in every department, a team with better strikers would have murdered us in the goal department too but we stole a goal pretty much against the run of everything (great goal though it was). We won the match because of how bad they were in front of goal on the night, a team with there shooting boots on would have had that game won before we got anywhere near their goal. We played similar garbage against ICT and lost 3. If we play like that we'll lose mair than we'll win IMO and there'll be less and less people bothering tae turn up and watch it, even those who have already paid for it.


I ken we'll obviously disagree on this,














just tae save us going round in circles again :wink: :greengrin

marinello59
09-10-2013, 06:02 AM
I would say it absolute garbage if it drives folk away and naebody wants tae watch it, what's the point if naebody wants tae watch it?

You think we won the match because the way we played was effective? Really! I dinnae think we were the least bit effective and we certainly didnae stop them playing, they murdered us in every department, a team with better strikers would have murdered us in the goal department too but we stole a goal pretty much against the run of everything (great goal though it was). We won the match because of how bad they were in front of goal on the night, a team with there shooting boots on would have had that game won before we got anywhere near their goal. We played similar garbage against ICT and lost 3. If we play like that we'll lose mair than we'll win IMO and there'll be less and less people bothering tae turn up and watch it, even those who have already paid for it.


I ken we'll obviously disagree on this,




I can agree with this bit J. :greengrin

We won the game partly because our keeper was in inspired form. Thistle may well have scored against another keeper. We won games last year that we showed very little in because Sparky was in inspired form. Did we not deserve to win any of them either? We offered nothing going forward for the majority of the game because we were set up not to lose. It was horrible to watch but unlike the majority here I thought our defence was fairly well organised, at least there seemed to be some sort of plan in place. Individual errors and slips by some players let us down though. It's the SPFL (or whatever it's called now though). Players will make lots of mistakes.
I totally agree with you about the style of football driving fans away. It's just horrible to watch. I have seen nothing to suggest that Pat Fenlon is the man to take us forward but if he continues to get results that keep us in the top half of the table we will be stuck with him.

degenerated
09-10-2013, 06:19 AM
One we would have lost last season?

Actually, it was one of those games that we could play again 20 times over and take nothing from. We were extremely forunate.

As for Fenlon and his tactics, they were really no different than against Inverness.

Doesn't matter how many times you want to replay it, it only gets played once and we won it.

It was a honking night for playing football, we didn't play well but we won and no matter the volume of crapulent whining on here the fact that we took the three points isn't going to change.
Although I suspect a number if people on here would be happier if we hadn't won.

Saorsa
09-10-2013, 06:31 AM
I can agree with this bit J. :greengrin

We won the game partly because our keeper was in inspired form. Thistle may well have scored against another keeper. We won games last year that we showed very little in because Sparky was in inspired form. Did we not deserve to win any of them either? We offered nothing going forward for the majority of the game because we were set up not to lose. It was horrible to watch but unlike the majority here I thought our defence was fairly well organised, at least there seemed to be some sort of plan in place. Individual errors and slips by some players let us down though. It's the SPFL (or whatever it's called now though). Players will make lots of mistakes.
I totally agree with you about the style of football driving fans away. It's just horrible to watch. I have seen nothing to suggest that Pat Fenlon is the man to take us forward but if he continues to get results that keep us in the top half of the table we will be stuck with him.Well as I say we'll agree tae disagree :greengrin on what won us the game, our effectiveness tae stop them playing or their inefectiveness in front of goal. I'm happy with the 3 points because believe me playing like that we'll need every point we can get nae matter how we get it. I also realise that if we keep picking up points we'll be stuck with PF until the end of the season and can only hope if we pick up a few mair points he might get a bit mair adventurous but I'll no haud my breath on that point.

The goal was a great strike, the saves from Williams were excellent, I'll even give Fenlon his subs but I think we should at least be honest and say none of that would have mattered had they been better in front of goal, if they had the game would have been done before any of that happened.

Aldo
09-10-2013, 07:08 AM
Doesn't matter how many times you want to replay it, it only gets played once and we won it. It was a honking night for playing football, we didn't play well but we won and no matter the volume of crapulent whining on here the fact that we took the three points isn't going to change. Although I suspect a number if people on here would be happier if we hadn't won.

Yip we won but why was it a honking nite for football. The pitch was in excellent condition. Yeah it rained a bit but that didn't cause any problems from what I could see.

Excellent conditions to zip the ball along the deck if you ask me.

Craig_in_Prague
09-10-2013, 07:21 AM
Yip we won but why was it a honking nite for football. The pitch was in excellent condition. Yeah it rained a bit but that didn't cause any problems from what I could see.

Excellent conditions to zip the ball along the deck if you ask me.

agreed, Partick had no issue playing some nice stuff.

TBH the whole crap football = better results myth, is becoming tiresome. Since when was this a direct correlation?

It is more likely we'll win games by playing better football than sitting in & hoping to sneak something.

Flat footed, pass across the way, back the way and hoof - is not a style by any other team other than Hibs.
The fact Pat has good players at his disposal, says it all about him. It's his style and it won't change.

One change could improve things considerably, by dropping TT and moving Robertson or Craig into the middle and given Zoubir or Stanton some starts.

otherwise, this 'football' we play, will bore us to death and in truth, drive more fans away.

I think we could accept stuffy away performances, IF we were more exciting at home.

They train all week in prep. for a game, then start off like snails. It's pathetic, I see more desire and energy from hungover sunday league players. Though I can't blame the players too much as I believe it's the manager setting them up in this way, it's just plain awful and it's also the root cause to our several humiliations.

Aldo
09-10-2013, 07:45 AM
agreed, Partick had no issue playing some nice stuff. TBH the whole crap football = better results myth, is becoming tiresome. Since when was this a direct correlation? It is more likely we'll win games by playing better football than sitting in & hoping to sneak something. Flat footed, pass across the way, back the way and hoof - is not a style by any other team other than Hibs. The fact Pat has good players at his disposal, says it all about him. It's his style and it won't change. One change could improve things considerably, by dropping TT and moving Robertson or Craig into the middle and given Zoubir or Stanton some starts. otherwise, this 'football' we play, will bore us to death and in truth, drive more fans away. I think we could accept stuffy away performances, IF we were more exciting at home. They train all week in prep. for a game, then start off like snails. It's pathetic, I see more desire and energy from hungover sunday league players. Though I can't blame the players too much as I believe it's the manager setting them up in this way, it's just plain awful and it's also the root cause to our several humiliations.

Again when we play 4 sort if CM players none of the want to go by their man on the outside but turn inside. The one time we managed to get into an attacking position / zoubir beat his man and crossed- goal. We need width or at least someone who can create.

We don't have a bad team it's just how we are set up - again balance is important and most of the time we don't have that.

I would like us to try and play with at least 1 MF player that is given a free role...

Dropping TT would allow someone else to come in... Play with a MF like this

Robertson Thompson. Craig
Zoubir
Heff. Collins

Zoubir has shown he can run at folk and take folk on playing him in the hole behind the front 2 gives the opposition something to think about. If not him someone else.

Just try something different to try and make the opposition worry about us for a change.

blackpoolhibs
09-10-2013, 08:02 AM
Doesn't matter how many times you want to replay it, it only gets played once and we won it.

It was a honking night for playing football, we didn't play well but we won and no matter the volume of crapulent whining on here the fact that we took the three points isn't going to change.
Although I suspect a number if people on here would be happier if we hadn't won.


This gets banded about at times, yet i personally dont know of any Hibs fan who'd want us to lose any game of football? :confused:

Aldo
09-10-2013, 08:46 AM
This gets banded about at times, yet i personally dont know of any Hibs fan who'd want us to lose any game of football? :confused:

I with you on this BH. Never ever want to see us getting beaten ( and know no Hibs fan who does ) however it's the manner of the defeat (and sometimes victory) I think that sticks in folks throat. Our football (or Hoofball) is dire at times and we really do need to get the ball on the deck and play a bit.

blackpoolhibs
09-10-2013, 08:53 AM
I with you on this BH. Never ever want to see us getting beaten ( and know no Hibs fan who does ) however it's the manner of the defeat (and sometimes victory) I think that sticks in folks throat. Our football (or Hoofball) is dire at times and we really do need to get the ball on the deck and play a bit.


I have never wanted us to lose any football match prior to the game being played, i have after many weeks on thought it might have been better if we had lost certain games.

I'm thinking Tynecastle 2-2 that kept Duff Jimmy in the job longer than he should have been, and Aberdeen semi a couple of seasons ago.

Nailrod
09-10-2013, 09:22 AM
What I don't understand is why is a team who have done so well in picking up so many points recently playing with no confidence. You would expect us to be brimming with confidence knocking the ball about. We have to accept that fenlon is going to be here to the end of the season and get behind the team. I just hope that when harris and cairney return we open up and play better football.Anybody expressing any hope that we're ever going to 'play better football' under Pat 'feart of his own shadow' Fenlon is dreaming.

It works like this: "Ok, if we don't lose too many games I won't get fired. So let's go for nil-nil... Ok, well it's only one-nil... All right, so two-nil then, but that's not that bad. It's better than five-one or seven-nil..."

What's infuriating is that the players we have are actually capable of playing football. After we scored, for ten or fifteen minutes we passed the Jags off the park. A team that had played really well, dominated the match, and created a barrowload of chances, couldn't get a look in. We carried the ball up into their half, and passed rings round them. That's not an easy thing to do. Why can't we start like that in games against teams who were playing in the First Division last year?

Nailrod
09-10-2013, 09:30 AM
Some of the posts on the match thread were a joke. I see none of them posted after we scored and I was proved correct. Sometimes in football you have to grind a result out, job done...I'm not sure you know what 'grind out a result' actually means. It means stifle the opposition, then nick a goal.

It doesn't mean cower in your own half, hanging on by the skin of your teeth while a team that was playing first division football last year run rings round you making and missing ten genuine goalscoring chances, any half-dozen of which could have gone in on another night, then nick a goal.

Waxy
09-10-2013, 09:35 AM
Can't pull the wool over our eyes.
I've seen defeats taken better than our win at firhill.
Goes to disprove the theory that results come first over good football.

spike220
09-10-2013, 09:42 AM
Wanted to post a few things last night but forum is always crowded after a match and wanted to think about a few things too.

1. Terrible performance for 3/4s of the game last night. Defence looked shaky, midfield unbalanced and strikers not in the game.

2. A good win though, these sort of games are potentially tricky and we have slipped up before so credit to the players for sticking at it.

3. The win was largely, but not entirely, down to luck more than a tactical master class by PF. Manager deserves a certain degree of credit for making changes which won the game but there is no doubt he was lucky we were still in the game at that point. Play like that most weeks and we will lose more than we win.

4. Ben Williams is a fantastic shot-stopper. A bit suspect on crosses but compared to the keepers we have been subjected to in the last 10 years (perhaps only Stack and the brief spell of the Mad Monk offering any competition) he is outstanding.

5. We continue to look unconvincing at the back. Right back seems to have a make-shift look whoever we play there though that could be solved by a fit Clancy returning and getting a run. Something doesn't seem right about McGivern and Hanlon remains shaky almost 6 years after making his first team debut. Him and Nelson are not the first XI quality required if we want to do well. Even with a fully fit McPake, Fenlon has neglected to sign a real quaility centre half which has been needed since he came to us.

6. Liam Craig offers us something we haven't had since Dean Shiels left nearly 5 years ago. A genunie goal threat from midfield. He also offers a calm head when defending - he looks to play a long pass rather than punt it clear.

7. Thomson and Taiwo are too similar, too defensive and get in each others way. One or the other for me and it has to be Thomson based on this season and general experience and quality. Move Robertson into the centre with KT and it would give us better balance in the centre and allow Zouby to get a shot out wide on the right.

8. Our strikers aren't scoring enough goals. Early days yet for both JC and Heff but they need better service. Heff for me has been more impressive than JC. Tin hat on here but at 200k I would have expected more than 2 goals in 9 games from JC, irrespective of the service he has and the adaptation to a new league.

9. I remain unconvinced that we will ever play good football regularly under PF. I just don't think he has that in him but to be honest if given the choice over winning football matches and playing nice stuff, it will be the former every time for me. That said, he still has to blood Zoubi and Harris and Cairney have to come back so maybe there is creative light at the end of the tunnel.

10. The GIRUY style posts on the match day thread from one or two last night after we took the lead were needless. We all want Hibs to score goals and win games. I didn't see many people going OTT with their posts during the game. I just saw lots of people telling it how it was - a poor display. A win does not change the fact that it was a poor display.

11. Michael Stewart has got a lot of flack but some of what he says on Pat rings true and he is paid to offer an opinion. The presenter Kenny McIntyre really seems to have a problem with Hibs and loves jobby stirring whenever he is on the air especially with Stewart. Think McIntyre must get paid a bonus everytime he can get the "John Collins saga" mentioned on air, he never fails to get the conversation round to it even though it happened in 2007 FFS.

12. The Sportsound team sounded gutted that we won and that was PLEASING to hear!

13. We have had a "poor" start to the season yet are level on points with Aberdeen who have been "brilliant" and were due to sweep all before them.

14. My own view on Pat hasn't changed - still unconvinced but think he deserves the season and will assess him at the end of the season or when top 6 becomes an impossibility. Whichever comes first.

Interested to hear where others agree/disagree. I would like to have at least seen 15 points here.

spike220
09-10-2013, 09:43 AM
Also forgot to mention the goal, it was a screamer, excellent finish the keeper had no chance.

NAE NOOKIE
09-10-2013, 05:14 PM
Doesn't matter how many times you want to replay it, it only gets played once and we won it.

It was a honking night for playing football, we didn't play well but we won and no matter the volume of crapulent whining on here the fact that we took the three points isn't going to change.
Although I suspect a number if people on here would be happier if we hadn't won.

The problem I have with how Hibs played on Monday night and from all accounts against ICT is that its a style? of football which will lose us more games than we will win. We got lucky on Monday and humped by ICT. Play this way against celtic and Aberdeen in the next few weeks and it will be a miracle if we come away with anything.

I'm always happy with a win, even if it is daylight ( or floodlight ) robbery. But how can any supporter be happy about a system which is so dull, so unimaginative, so uninspiring and yes so lacking in entertainment .... and so obviously going to prevent Hibs from making a dent in the Europa League places this season.

One off results are fine ..... but where are the signs that Hibs have found a system which will make us a team to be feared by anybody in this league? ... I sure as hell cant see any.

Andy74
09-10-2013, 06:06 PM
The problem I have with how Hibs played on Monday night and from all accounts against ICT is that its a style? of football which will lose us more games than we will win. We got lucky on Monday and humped by ICT. Play this way against celtic and Aberdeen in the next few weeks and it will be a miracle if we come away with anything.

I'm always happy with a win, even if it is daylight ( or floodlight ) robbery. But how can any supporter be happy about a system which is so dull, so unimaginative, so uninspiring and yes so lacking in entertainment .... and so obviously going to prevent Hibs from making a dent in the Europa League places this season.

One off results are fine ..... but where are the signs that Hibs have found a system which will make us a team to be feared by anybody in this league? ... I sure as hell cant see any.

Why are we winning more than we are losing then?

Hibby 2005
09-10-2013, 06:12 PM
Why are we winning more than we are losing then?

I've said previously that Fenlon can get wins against bottom 6 teams, it's the top 6 teams he struggles with. Maybe that pattern will change in the next few games but it would be a surprise.

Unseen work
09-10-2013, 06:18 PM
Majority are wanting fenlon to change it even though it's been more or less the same team that's started the past 6 or so games together, majority getting wins other than getting humped by ict, his reply to people asking why didn't he change it against Partick will simply be that he never thought it was necessary as he proved by winning the game.

You can't always chop and change a team as then it never has time to settle, and what options does he have to change it? Very little he can do especially when most were playing well. We have the option of zoubir but i think he is being introduced well . Got to think if you put zoubir for example right wing would he provide enough cover for a out of position Stevenson?

Although I thought Monday was brutal I think fenlon is playing the best possible team. Once our players are fit we will see a better balance to the team and more attacking as the wingers will be making the proper runs and guys like Thomson will find them

rcarter1
09-10-2013, 06:35 PM
I've said previously that Fenlon can get wins against bottom 6 teams, it's the top 6 teams he struggles with. Maybe that pattern will change in the next few games but it would be a surprise.

This I think hits it on the head. We've beaten St Johnstone, drawn with Dundee Utd, and lost to ICT and Motherwell which says little. What happens against Celtic is kind of not the point, and we now get to play Aberdeen, and another crack at ICT and Motherwell shortly after. Should we come out bottom of that selection of teams, we arent doing well enough. I suspect that the majority wont feel comfortable until we are at the top end of that mob. From what weve seen, we're not there..... yet!:take that

MrRobot
09-10-2013, 08:42 PM
We didnt pay 200k for Collins as far as I know.

NAE NOOKIE
09-10-2013, 11:00 PM
Why are we winning more than we are losing then?

My point was that we will not make a dent in the league playing this way. With the exception of St Johnstone we have beaten a poor Killie a poor St Mirren a lower league team who took 3 goals off us at ER and a Partick team who were better than us for 70% of the game. We have won because of a combination of poor opposition and poor finishing by Thistle, thats why we have some wins ... not because we have been playing well. The only notable result in the whole lot was St Johnstone.

Dont get me wrong ... I think we have the players to beat Aberdeen, ICT or Motherwell, but we wont get results against these teams unless we start being a lot braver instead of this ultra cautious approach.

GreenOnions
09-10-2013, 11:33 PM
My point was that we will not make a dent in the league playing this way. With the exception of St Johnstone we have beaten a poor Killie a poor St Mirren a lower league team who took 3 goals off us at ER and a Partick team who were better than us for 70% of the game. We have won because of a combination of poor opposition and poor finishing by Thistle, thats why we have some wins ... not because we have been playing well. The only notable result in the whole lot was St Johnstone.

Dont get me wrong ... I think we have the players to beat Aberdeen, ICT or Motherwell, but we wont get results against these teams unless we start being a lot braver instead of this ultra cautious approach.

It's all very well saying we were lucky to get three points against Thistle (and I would agree) or others but, having attended both games, I think we were unlucky to lose against both Motherwell and Hearts. I know that wasn't your main point but it shows the difficulty here. The shorter the time period the easier it is to "qualify" stats.

Unless things go disastrously wrong Pat will have the whole season to generate some meaningful and pleasing statistics. I happen to think he's built a squad capable of doing that. He needs a bit more luck on the injuries front and a more aggressive, forward-thinking approach in games (like we saw v St Mirren). If we get that then hopefully we will see the sort of attacking football that will bring people back to ER and get us up near the top of the league where this squad should be.

blackpoolhibs
10-10-2013, 06:18 AM
My point was that we will not make a dent in the league playing this way. With the exception of St Johnstone we have beaten a poor Killie a poor St Mirren a lower league team who took 3 goals off us at ER and a Partick team who were better than us for 70% of the game. We have won because of a combination of poor opposition and poor finishing by Thistle, thats why we have some wins ... not because we have been playing well. The only notable result in the whole lot was St Johnstone.

Dont get me wrong ... I think we have the players to beat Aberdeen, ICT or Motherwell, but we wont get results against these teams unless we start being a lot braver instead of this ultra cautious approach.


It's all very well saying we were lucky to get three points against Thistle (and I would agree) or others but, having attended both games, I think we were unlucky to lose against both Motherwell and Hearts. I know that wasn't your main point but it shows the difficulty here. The shorter the time period the easier it is to "qualify" stats.

Unless things go disastrously wrong Pat will have the whole season to generate some meaningful and pleasing statistics. I happen to think he's built a squad capable of doing that. He needs a bit more luck on the injuries front and a more aggressive, forward-thinking approach in games (like we saw v St Mirren). If we get that then hopefully we will see the sort of attacking football that will bring people back to ER and get us up near the top of the league where this squad should be.


I don't care one bit how lucky or unlucky we have been in ANY game we have played this season, or indeed any game under Fenlon.

Its the way he sets up his team and the tactics he employs as manager that has bored me ****less. Its anti football and awful to watch.

Football is about excitement, passion and entertainment, more so with the cost of the game now.

This man has eradicated all that from Easter road.

Waxy
10-10-2013, 06:44 AM
The first half was pretty bad.Chasing around like chickens.
Partick dominated so much i was surprised we didn't reappear wearing gimp masks after the break

NAE NOOKIE
10-10-2013, 10:12 PM
It's all very well saying we were lucky to get three points against Thistle (and I would agree) or others but, having attended both games, I think we were unlucky to lose against both Motherwell and Hearts. I know that wasn't your main point but it shows the difficulty here. The shorter the time period the easier it is to "qualify" stats.

Unless things go disastrously wrong Pat will have the whole season to generate some meaningful and pleasing statistics. I happen to think he's built a squad capable of doing that. He needs a bit more luck on the injuries front and a more aggressive, forward-thinking approach in games (like we saw v St Mirren). If we get that then hopefully we will see the sort of attacking football that will bring people back to ER and get us up near the top of the league where this squad should be.

I would agree that in a sense we were unlucky to lose to Motherwell and Hearts ...... but thats the thing. We may have been unlucky to lose, but the truth is that we would have been just as lucky as them if we had won.

Against the Yams our performance was a disgrace ... we should have had more than enough in the way of talent and experience on the park to totally dominate that game, instead of which we went out as if we were playing against a team we were afraid of and it showed in a poor performance .... the only way we were unlucky was due to the fact that the Yams scored with their only decent move of the game. It was purely down to our over cautious approach and poor overall play in that game that it came down to that.

A poor St Mirren team went to the Wongadome with a 20th of the support we take and easily beat a pumped up Yam team and crowd by using their better experience and keeping calm.

Against Motherwell we were nowhere near adventurous enough, also in that game it was obvious that the whole plan was to stop McFadyen, which we did very well, but at the cost of very little in an attacking sense. So yes, we lost to a breakaway goal, but the truth is that Motherwell more or less dominated that game from start to finish.

As for the bit I have highlighted. Thats all I'm asking for from PF. I honestly think we have the players to play a lot more attacking style of football, all it takes is for the manager to have the belief that we can play that way and the courage to put it to the test.

The Leith Dutch
10-10-2013, 10:29 PM
I don't care one bit how lucky or unlucky we have been in ANY game we have played this season, or indeed any game under Fenlon.

Its the way he sets up his team and the tactics he employs as manager that has bored me ****less. Its anti football and awful to watch.

Football is about excitement, passion and entertainment, more so with the cost of the game now.

This man has eradicated all that from Easter road.

:top marks

Sir David Gray
10-10-2013, 10:43 PM
I've not been able to attend a game since the Ross County match and that was one of the most boring 90 minutes of my life so far.

I'll be at the Celtic game so I'm interested to see how we're going to play. I'm not expecting us to beat them, given our contrasting wage bills I would never expect us to beat Celtic but we are on a decent run just now, barring the capitulation up at Inverness, so hopefully we can give them a decent game and give them something to think about.

This time last year, when we were sitting near the top of the league, everyone was quite positive. 12 months on, we're only 1 point worse off than we were at the same stage last year and level on points with a team that everyone is raving about and talking about finishing in 2nd place.

I don't agree that we should be too negative just now. I know the performances haven't been great but I honestly think that some people have been unable to let go of the Malmo result. If that hadn't happened then I don't think there would be as much negativity around the club just now. I think we need to move on from that night. It happened, it wasn't nice but there's nothing we can do about it. Results like that can happen in football.

We have three home games coming up now in a row, two of which will probably go a long way in deciding how this season is going to go for us. We need to support the team, we have good football players at our disposal and, in my opinion, the second strongest squad in the country.

I think we are capable of finishing second this year and we need to stay together behind the players and the manager. Nothing's going to change there until at least the end of the season so we may as well accept that.

heretoday
11-10-2013, 07:14 AM
Hibs were awful v Thistle and I am fearful of a drubbing v Celtic. Despite the usual feelgood remarks in the papers I remain unconvinced by Fenlon.

The Falcon
11-10-2013, 07:23 AM
Football is about excitement, passion and entertainment, more so with the cost of the game now.

This man has eradicated all that from Easter road.

Aye. We were playing like 1970 Brazil before he came right enough.