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Stringer
28-09-2013, 04:10 PM
Pat is really poor at changing things up during a match; he will wait and wait before introducing a new player. So frustrating when the imbalance in the team is obvious.

Hibercelona
28-09-2013, 04:20 PM
He always waits until its too late to change anything, when every man and his dog can see that Plan A isn't working out at all.

He seems to have no time perception at all. I think the game is over before he even realizes it.

Andy74
28-09-2013, 04:26 PM
What changes should have been made when and what would each of the have achieved at that stage of the game?

I wasn't there so have no idea.

TheGreenMan
28-09-2013, 04:49 PM
He's always been the same.

I mind the ICT game at home last season, we're 2-1 up and had run out of legs. ICT putting us under pressure and it was clear a change (or changes) was needed or we'd eventually lose a goal.

No change made and they get it back to 2-2. Then he makes a sub.

There have been other occasions where similar has happened but for some reason that game sticks in my mind.

Andy74
28-09-2013, 04:57 PM
So someone must have some decent analysis on what we should have done and when to form this view ?

Three subs are made most weeks by most teams. Some work, some don't.

As fans we tend to want a change for the sake of it and sort of expect if you put a winger or striker on you score goals. It quite often ends up that when you do it you lose more.

Is there anything to suggest Pat and his team are worse at this part of it than anyone else?

Hibercelona
28-09-2013, 05:30 PM
So someone must have some decent analysis on what we should have done and when to form this view ?

Its not always a case of knowing exactly what changes to make. It's just using common sense and changing something that clearly isn't working. Even if the change doesn't improve things, it doesn't matter, because you're losing anyway, so you're as well changing things around. There's nothing else to lose when you're already losing.


Three subs are made most weeks by most teams. Some work, some don't.

True. But if you keep the same 11 players on the park for majority of the game in the exact same positions with the exact same game plan and they're getting pummelled. Chances are, they're going to get pummelled all the way up to the final whistle.


As fans we tend to want a change for the sake of it and sort of expect if you put a winger or striker on you score goals. It quite often ends up that when you do it you lose more.

Nobody wanted change for the sake of it. They wanted to see Pat try something different, because what he currently had set out, clearly wasn't working. Any changes he could have made, couldn't have possibly made us look any worse, as we offered nothing the entire game anyway.


Is there anything to suggest Pat and his team are worse at this part of it than anyone else?

Yes. Managers like Brewster and McCall can change games around by changing their game plan. Although, more often than not, they don't need to, because they get the plan right first time.

jane_says
28-09-2013, 05:35 PM
82 minutes seems to be a particular favourite of his to change things, even when players are blowing out their a*** at 70. Frustrating to say the least.

Spike Mandela
28-09-2013, 05:45 PM
Thought he might have started with Zoubir today but Pat obviously prefers the more defensive option.

Thought Zoubir might have given ICT something to think about and caused a few problems but maybe Pat doesn't think he is ready for the hustle and bustle of the SPFL.

Surely he must be pushing for a start after todays performance from the team?

Andy74
28-09-2013, 06:44 PM
82 minutes seems to be a particular favourite of his to change things, even when players are blowing out their a*** at 70. Frustrating to say the least.

62, 68 and 80 today from Twitter.

allmodcons
28-09-2013, 06:50 PM
It was 1v0 when PF asked Zoubir to get stripped today. He was (genuinely) getting stripped when Inverness went up 2v0 and only made it on to the field of play after they went up 3v0.

Hibercelona
28-09-2013, 07:31 PM
It was 1v0 when PF asked Zoubir to get stripped today. He was (genuinely) getting stripped when Inverness went up 2v0 and only made it on to the field of play after they went up 3v0.

He should have been on at half time. I was baffled (although not surprised) that Pat made no changes for the 2nd half, after we offered absolutely nothing in the 1st half.

What did he think was going to happen after making no changes at all?

JollyGreenGiant
28-09-2013, 07:35 PM
He always waits until its too late to change anything, when every man and his dog can see that Plan A isn't working out at all.

He seems to have no time perception at all. I think the game is over before he even realizes it.


Aye, he shouts Zoubir over when we were 1-0 down and by the time he gets him on we are 3-0 down - game over indeed!

Golden Bear
28-09-2013, 07:42 PM
Please Mr Fenlon can you maybe think about using a few impact players from the start? Or is that an outrageous suggestion?

ehf
28-09-2013, 09:20 PM
Please Mr Fenlon can you maybe think about using a few impact players from the start? Or is that an outrageous suggestion?

Sadly, he doesn't have a clue.

cabbageandribs1875
28-09-2013, 09:26 PM
to be fair to PF he made a substitution a couple of weeks back that i totally agreed with for the first time :thumbsup: cant really think of any other ones though i'm afraid :(

Andy74
28-09-2013, 09:47 PM
Please Mr Fenlon can you maybe think about using a few impact players from the start? Or is that an outrageous suggestion?

Yeah yeah. He should have been sacked for not playing Zoubir v St Johnstone. We won that and the next league game. I thought he was okay during the week but it's right that the team that started did.

Craig scored a hat trick during the week. The strikers have scored in the last couple of league games. That's an impact isn't it?

blackpoolhibs
29-09-2013, 01:05 AM
Aye, he shouts Zoubir over when we were 1-0 down and by the time he gets him on we are 3-0 down - game over indeed!

Maybe their lack of desire was only apparent in the 2nd half?

Pete
29-09-2013, 02:36 AM
I think what pat needs to do is learn how to play these games like Football manager and FIFA.

After doing so he will become a lot better at making these calls. He might even elevate himself to the standards achieved by some of his Internet critics. He wouldn't even have to enter the dressing room or familiarise himself with the players.

What's remarkable is that once you have mastered the art of substitutions, you automatically gain qualifications in hindsight and common sense.

Fife-Hibee
29-09-2013, 05:54 AM
Yeah yeah. He should have been sacked for not playing Zoubir v St Johnstone. We won that and the next league game. I thought he was okay during the week but it's right that the team that started did.

Craig scored a hat trick during the week. The strikers have scored in the last couple of league games. That's an impact isn't it?

If we had played a spfl team in the cup during the week we would have got pumped. The defence was ****ing awful.

trev the hat
29-09-2013, 10:02 AM
It comes back to both full back positions for me, Mgivern should not be playing LB & LS not RB, not once in 90 min did I see Mgivern pass on the floor to Craig, a consistent CB is where I'd have him, he doesn't enjoy playing LB & it clearly shows on the park. Lewis speaks for itself, won't let team down but constantly targeted by opposition as a weakness.
As far as subs go IMO midfield was disjointed from the off, not sure how many times Thomson & Taiwo have played together but it doesn't work. I'd have had Jones on at H/T against his old club (if not starting) for TT along with Handling for Collins who looked a yard slow. Why Heff came off after sitting out midweek beats me. With Zoubi waiting to come on whilst watching 2 go in against us without Fenlon re thinking his tactics was at best naive.
Pats inability to maximise use of his bench with impact along with mixing & matching players into positions does him no favours at all & will make any welcome progress minimal & inconsistent.

Scouse Hibee
29-09-2013, 01:58 PM
to be fair to PF he made a substitution a couple of weeks back that i totally agreed with for the first time :thumbsup: cant really think of any other ones though i'm afraid :(

Did he really sub himself for some bloke from the front row of the stand!

Brightside
29-09-2013, 02:15 PM
Yeah yeah. He should have been sacked for not playing Zoubir v St Johnstone. We won that and the next league game. I thought he was okay during the week but it's right that the team that started did.

Craig scored a hat trick during the week. The strikers have scored in the last couple of league games. That's an impact isn't it?

Craig scored a hatrick in an attacking team playing behind the strikers. We went to ICT with 2 DM in our mid 4. It is tactic that are killing us Andy...he is giving ICT too much respect by playing two defensive mids against . When they both play it means of LM and RM get dragged in to the middle infront of them...we then have zero width and get battered. You can see it every time he plays that formation. We are playing in a poor league and do not need to play such a formation. He should have played Thomson OR Tawio as DM... Craig as AM with Robertson and Zouby on the wing. If we got beat 3-0 after having 5 or 6 shots on target you'd get a lot less people complaining.

eastterrace
29-09-2013, 02:19 PM
Craig scored a hatrick in an attacking team playing behind the strikers. We went to ICT with 2 DM in our mid 4. It is tactic that are killing us Andy...he is giving ICT too much respect by playing two defensive mids against . When they both play it means of LM and RM get dragged in to the middle infront of them...we then have zero width and get battered. You can see it every time he plays that formation. We are playing in a poor league and do not need to play such a formation. He should have played Thomson OR Tawio as DM... Craig as AM with Robertson and Zouby on the wing. If we got beat 3-0 after having 5 or 6 shots on target you'd get a lot less people complaining.
yes agree its not the defeat its he way we get beat.

Miguel
29-09-2013, 10:05 PM
Pat Fenlon isn't a bad judge of a player.
He's shown by his signings that he knows where we have needed to strengthen.
Strangely, he then doesn't seem to know how to best deploy players.
His 'in game' decision-making is poor, particularly substitutions.

PatHead
29-09-2013, 10:29 PM
I hear what you all say but surely we couldn't have changed a team unbeaten in 5. With regard to Zouby have we really seen enough of him yet to demand he plays from the start? Out of interest how much of an impact did he have when he came on?

monktonharp
29-09-2013, 11:39 PM
Yeah yeah. He should have been sacked for not playing Zoubir v St Johnstone. We won that and the next league game. I thought he was okay during the week but it's right that the team that started did.

Craig scored a hat trick during the week. The strikers have scored in the last couple of league games. That's an impact isn't it?ok, but we lost 2 silly goals in the second half last week. the defence were dreaming, and we plsyed a lower league team. to th=ry that ****, against a team that's flying? only one outcome.