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HIBERNIAN-0762
27-09-2013, 01:27 PM
Right OK, total respect to McRae's battalion for volunteering to go to WW1.

Please, someone posted up on here the full list of ALL Scottish football clubs that signed up for that terrible conflict.

Just fed up with these stupid yams claiming it was only them that did this and seem to want to airbrush out any other clubs that made this commitment.

No disrespect to the war dead believe me, just want to see for myself who else did this.

Cheers.

Carheenlea
27-09-2013, 01:54 PM
With the centenary coming up next year of the outbreak of the Great War, both television and radio will be marking the anniversary with hours and hours of documentaries which will leave us in no doubt of the horror that those involved from both sides had to deal with.

Hopefully that will put an end to the petty point scoring by Hearts and some disrespectful McRae`s Battalion themed "jokes" by our supporters.

jacomo
27-09-2013, 01:56 PM
Right OK, total respect to McRae's battalion for volunteering to go to WW1.

Please, someone posted up on here the full list of ALL Scottish football clubs that signed up for that terrible conflict.

Just fed up with these stupid yams claiming it was only them that did this and seem to want to airbrush out any other clubs that made this commitment.

No disrespect to the war dead believe me, just want to see for myself who else did this.

Cheers.

Given how many people signed up, it would probably be easier to list the clubs who didn't have any representatives who died on the poppy fields.

No doubt our club will take part in the commemorations with dignity and humility. Lets hope others do so too.

cocopops1875
27-09-2013, 01:59 PM
To be fair Hearts have every right to bang on about this and also about the donation in the players memory's that they make every year

Pedantic_Hibee
27-09-2013, 02:02 PM
If Hearts took it that seriously they wouldn't have shafted the McCraes charity. 'em.

Bostonhibby
27-09-2013, 02:05 PM
If I recall correctly their very own yam historian Jack Alexander actually identifies the many other non yam clubs whose players signed up for the war by joining the Macraes in his book about the regiment, but hey ho, inconvenient truth and all that.........

07hibee
27-09-2013, 02:07 PM
Weren't football players including Hearts and Hibs shamed into joining up as thousands already had? Don't see why they keep harping on about something that everyone done at that time,no disrespect intended . One website says 11 out of 1350 soldiers on Macraes Battalion were Hearts players !

Leith Mo
27-09-2013, 02:10 PM
Go back a few months when they first entered administration and you will see my response to a letter written by their "We won theWar" Propagandist-In-Chief Jack Aleaxnder which appeared in the Scotsman claiming they were in some way "unique" and singled-handedly saved football" (Thread title was "Kaiser Bill Papped His Breeks"). I list a few of the teams that lost players.

Like you I am absolutely disgusted by their triumphalism on all causes but most of all this one for some very valid reasons. Must add that at the moment the best way to shut them all up is to ask a single question: "Did you pay for your poppes?" and watch them squirm.

They must NEVER be allowed to get away with this. LEST THEY FORGET - they didnae pay for their poppies and remain a shower of bigoted, blind, two-faced, hypocritical historically-inaccurate, deluded ********

Pedantic_Hibee
27-09-2013, 02:15 PM
Go back a few months when they first entered administration and you will see my response to a letter written by their "We won theWar" Propagandist-In-Chief Jack Aleaxnder which appeared in the Scotsman claiming they were in some way "unique" and singled-handedly saved football" (Thread title was "Kaiser Bill Papped His Breeks"). I list a few of the teams that lost players.

Like you I am absolutely disgusted by their triumphalism on all causes but most of all this one for some very valid reasons. Must add that at the moment the best way to shut them all up is to ask a single question: "Did you pay for your poppes?" and watch them squirm.

They must NEVER be allowed to get away with this. LEST THEY FORGET - they didnae pay for their poppies and remain a shower of bigoted, blind, two-faced, hypocritical historically-inaccurate, deluded ********

I concur. Didn't pay for poppies and also shafted McCraes. This money was spent on overpaid mercenaries who couldn't even spell "war".

jacomo
27-09-2013, 02:26 PM
To be fair Hearts have every right to bang on about this and also about the donation in the players memory's that they make every year

Nah they don't.

Memorials are not an opportunity to score points.

Charity is not an opportunity to brag about how charitable you are (especially if you end up owing money to the very charities you claim to support).

The_Exile
27-09-2013, 02:34 PM
Also known as the 16th Royal Scots Volunteers Battalion, sure it was made up of many, which included players from Hearts, Hibs, Dunfy, Falkirk etc, sure someone more knowledgable will confirm.

Edit: found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCrae's_Battalion_Great_War_Memorial

2nd edit: Also found this pretty good article from the Telegraph about WW1 and "sporting battalions" so to speak (apologies for linking to the Torygraph!) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/3418957/Sporting-greats-who-graced-playing-field-and-World-War-One-battlefield-but-were-taken-before-their-time-Sport.html

nonshinyfinish
27-09-2013, 02:39 PM
To be fair Hearts have every right to bang on about this and also about the donation in the players memory's that they make every year

They have every right to hold a dignified memorial for the players who gave their lives (which I believe is what they did for many years).

They don't have every right to use it to big themselves up or as a marketing opportunity. And that's before they bumped poppy charities and their own charitable foundation. Makes you proud, right enough. :rolleyes:

fat freddy
27-09-2013, 02:41 PM
A section of hearts fans use the deaths of their players as a tool in a game of oneupmanship....Prior to the last decade the Haymarket memorial day was always quietly and respectfully observed by all of Edinburghs citizens but it appears that some people have hijacked what should be a day of rememberance and are using it to further their own agendas.

hibby rae
27-09-2013, 02:42 PM
If I recall correctly their very own yam historian Jack Alexander actually identifies the many other non yam clubs whose players signed up for the war by joining the Macraes in his book about the regiment, but hey ho, inconvenient truth and all that.........

Yeah there's a list at the back of the book. I do have it but can't find my copy otherwise I'd post it.

Pete
27-09-2013, 02:50 PM
With the centenary coming up next year of the outbreak of the Great War, both television and radio will be marking the anniversary with hours and hours of documentaries which will leave us in no doubt of the horror that those involved from both sides had to deal with.

Hopefully that will put an end to the petty point scoring by Hearts and some disrespectful McRae`s Battalion themed "jokes" by our supporters.

Totally agree.

It's went too far and I mean no offence when I say I am sick of this subject being brought up continually by both sets of supporters.

Enough is enough.

Leith Mo
27-09-2013, 02:52 PM
And of course when November approaches once again and they bring out the latest version of their Maroon rag with the Poppy emblem on it and the deluded ones cough up again to buy it their will be not one penny paid to the Poppy Fund for use of the poppy emblem (which if the Poppy Fund are entitled to royalties on the use of the emblem will be yet another example of their ilegal and immoral conduct).

On another note, I wonder what National Audit Scotland would have to say about Edinburgh Council subsidising them for years in paying for "storage" facilities that were never used?

LEST WE FORGET - they are ****bos and deserve to die (very slowly and painfully I admit but as the OP said - "Sick of this really" Just pull the plug and let them disappear NOW).

southfieldhibby
27-09-2013, 02:55 PM
I think this topic should be banned from Hibs websites.

Let Hearts do their own thing and let Hibs do whatever they feel appropriate.The mudslinging that happens does none of those who died any justice.

Just Alf
27-09-2013, 02:57 PM
Weren't football players including Hearts and Hibs shamed into joining up as thousands already had? Don't see why they keep harping on about something that everyone done at that time,no disrespect intended . One website says 11 out of 1350 soldiers on Macraes Battalion were Hearts players !

This is almost right.

At the start of the war many players from teams up and down the country did enlist.... some individuals didn't.

Those that didn't continued to play professionally, then the wife of one of those that had lost their lives wrote into the papers (Scotsman?) and said that Hearts players should all wear white feathers as none of them had enlisted.
At this point there was a huge backlash against professional sport and there was talk of getting football banned.
Just after, the Macrae Battalion hit town (they had been touring Scotland in an enlistment drive) and many players from many teams enlisted... along with a lot of their supporters.

On one hand it's ironic they had (have?) a white away strip and on another the claim that they "saved football" .... they did after a fashion I guess as the whole team enlisted at once.

The bottom line though is that many people died in the battalion (and others) and all deserve remembering..... and it's a real shame that so many felt pressured into it in the 1st place.

As has already been mentioned, Hearts used to treat their history with dignity and other teams sent representatives to the Haymarket memorial, I'm sure Hearts paid towards building it, however in recent years their "triumphalism" and I guess commercialism has ruined the feeling of closeness the various representatives used to have around Remembrance Sunday at Haymarket.

Pedantic_Hibee
27-09-2013, 02:58 PM
Totally agree.

It's went too far and I mean no offence when I say I am sick of this subject being brought up continually by both sets of supporters.

Enough is enough.

I get what you're saying but I'm sorry, for as long as they flumps ignore it, sweep it under the carpet and continue to perpetuate their myth of honouring and respecting the cause (for which they shafted those same organisations who are involved in it), I will forever remind all and sundry of the crass, heinous and insensitive behaviour they have shown.

Lest they horrible *astards forget.

Mellow Hibee
27-09-2013, 03:03 PM
I think this topic should be banned from Hibs websites.

Let Hearts do their own thing and let Hibs do whatever they feel appropriate.The mudslinging that happens does none of those who died any justice.

You're right. The problem is when they start writting to newspapers saying that they should be treated differently from other clubs.

The sensible folks (vast majority) of both Hibs & Hearts fans are able to avoid both giving offense and publicly wallowing in faux grief.

Leith Mo
27-09-2013, 03:05 PM
As I said in my response to the OP - here is the original thread I started on this some time ago. The problem is they honestly believe they were "unique" in their sacrifice and have usurped the historical memory and twisted it to suit their own version of "FACT".

Hearts Fan letter from 18th June published in the Scotsman:

The current crisis at Tynecastle has generated a great deal of hyperbole.

Hearts are routinely compared with Third Lanark, Airdrieonians, Gretna, Clydebank, Dunfermline and the team formerly known as Rangers FC. Some observers would have us believe that the club is in imminent danger of liquidation.

There is, however, one fundamental difference between Hearts and these other troubled combinations which most observers have failed to mention. Heart of Midlothian remain the only football club in Great Britain whose fame is not solely founded on honours won on the sporting field.

Next year sees the centenary of the voluntary enlistment of a squad of idealistic young Hearts players in a battalion of Lord Kitchener’s New Army.

Their sacrifice single-handedly prevented the sport of professional football from being “stopped” by Herbert Asquith’s government.

In 2016 we will commemorate the centenary of the destruction of that magnificent battalion in one tragic hour on the Somme.
Growing up in Scotland in the 1960s I used to wonder at the open affection displayed towards Hearts throughout the country.
Prospective investors in the club must be made aware of the unique historical significance of this great Scottish institution.
Without Hearts, professional football as we know it would not exist.
Jack Alexander
McCrae’s Battalion Trust
Here is my response - a much edited version of which appears online today so I'll need to see if they've printed any more - but given that it is the establishment paper and a Jambo mouthpiece I'd doubt it:

Sir,

I write in response to the letter from Jack Alexander, McCrea's Battalion Trust published in yesterday's edition. As Mr Alexander rightly states the recent events surrounding the apparent demise of his beloved HMFC have indeed "generated a great deal of hyperbole" yet I fear that Mr Alexander and his colleagues are themselves exponents of such hyperbole at best and at worst of a gross misinterpretation of historical facts.

Firstly, his contention that HMFC "remain the only football team in Great Britain whose fame is not solely founded on honours won on the sporting field" beggars belief. A quick search of historical fact will enable him to realise one hopes that others, including but not restricted to: Celtic (7 deaths); Brechin (6); Bradford (9); Newcastle (7); and West Ham (5) also made the ultimate sacrifice for a cause they believed in. Other sporting institutions in Edinburgh and beyond also suffered the same fate, for example the majority of the Edinburgh Academy Rugby championship-winning team of a few years prior to 1914 losing their lives.

To assert that the sacrifice of HMFC "single-handedly prevented…professional football being stopped by…government" is an indication of the maroon-tinted version of history that supporters of other clubs have by now come to expect and largely ignore from followers of the stricken Edinburgh club. The implication is one which is strengthened by their adoption in recent years of a trench-like mentality and arrogance in which they are "the Big Team" hounded by all around them, especially their local neighbours Hibernian (or the so-called "Wee Team" ) in our capital city.
I too grew up in 1960s Scotland and can recall not one hint of open affection towards HMFC throughout the country, merely a strong footballing rivalry which extended even to my own "mixed" Hibernian-Hibs household. Indeed, my uncle was the only son of my grandmother's first husband, himself killed in May 1916 before the carnage of the Somme. The fact that this serving regular army soldier's (and as such one of the first to see action) sacrifice was in fact denied by his own brothers, George "Geordie" Sinclair (a famous former captain and Scotland internationalist) and Willie Sinclair, both players for HMFC at the time, on the grounds that their brother's wife was a Hibernian-supporting Roman Catholic merely serves to strengthen my own personal recognition of the sacrifice made by so many of all footballing and other persuasions during the Great War. Had their brother not died, perhaps my grandmother may never have re-married and perhaps my own father and therefore I myself may never have been born. I would challenge Mr Alexander and others who by implication and inference support the claim that not only did HMFC win the war but also saved football to stand head bowed in front of a Great War grave containing the remains of a man with such implications, and then perhaps understand the true meaning of war and sacrifice.
I for one can not extend any sympathy to the usurpation of historical memory which Mr Alexander and his colleagues and many in the stands of Tynecastle continue to promote. The War was one which affected all, some more than others and certainly others more than Hearts. The Haymarket Clock, for which funds were raised in a charity match played between Hibernian and HMFC as a memorial to ALL sportsmen of Edinburgh from whatever club or sport is a living example of the manner in which Mr Alexander and his ilk and HMFC officially stole the historical memory of the tragedy that unfolded in those years. Prospective investors should indeed be made aware of a history which includes such unique misinterpretation of historical fact and more recent events which may yet turn out to involve theft of a different nature.
Without Hearts, "professional football as we know it would not exist" he claims, to which one can only respond without HMFC professional football may well be a better, open and honest environment. However, perhaps with better management and education, Scottish football may well continue to have a place for Heart of Midlothian in order that some amongst their following can embark on a new and, one would hope this time, accurately interpreted chapter.

LEST THEY FORGET - THIEVING ****BO LIARS

southfieldhibby
27-09-2013, 03:19 PM
You're right. The problem is when they start writting to newspapers saying that they should be treated differently from other clubs.

The sensible folks (vast majority) of both Hibs & Hearts fans are able to avoid both giving offense and publicly wallowing in faux grief.

I'm no lover of the fritzls, but I've never heard this before...any evidence?

AndyM_1875
27-09-2013, 03:21 PM
Perhaps this piece written by Tom Wright, Hibs official historian, may answer some questions.

http://www.edinburghs-war.ed.ac.uk/system/files/PDF_hibs_FC_WW1.pdf

What I can add to this is that my Great Great Grandfather was a Leither who latterly lived in Drum Terrace and watched as 3 of his sons went to the slaughter.
One came back intact, the other lost an arm when it was torn off by shrapnel from a German shell at the Somme and the other was terribly injured at the Gretna Rail disaster where 200 men were killed. That train carried many men from Leith and without any shadow of a doubt many of them followed the fortunes of our club.

Hibercelona
27-09-2013, 03:24 PM
"Heart of Midlothian remain the only football club in Great Britain whose fame is not solely founded on honours won on the sporting field."

Sums up the attitude of the majority of them.

Arrogance doesn't even begin to describe them.

nonshinyfinish
27-09-2013, 03:26 PM
I'm no lover of the fritzls, but I've never heard this before...any evidence?

No doubt someone will have the link itself, but here's the text of the letter to the Scotsman:

"The current crisis at Tynecastle has generated a great deal of hyperbole.

Hearts are routinely compared with Third Lanark, Airdrieonians, Gretna, Clydebank, Dunfermline and the team formerly known as Rangers FC. Some observers would have us believe that the club is in imminent danger of liquidation.

There is, however, one fundamental difference between Hearts and these other troubled combinations which most observers have failed to mention. Heart of Midlothian remain the only football club in Great Britain whose fame is not solely founded on honours won on the sporting field.

Next year sees the centenary of the voluntary enlistment of a squad of idealistic young Hearts players in a battalion of Lord Kitchener’s New Army.

Their sacrifice single-handedly prevented the sport of professional football from being “stopped” by Herbert Asquith’s government.

In 2016 we will commemorate the centenary of the destruction of that magnificent battalion in one tragic hour on the Somme.

Growing up in Scotland in the 1960s I used to wonder at the open affection displayed towards Hearts throughout the country.

Prospective investors in the club must be made aware of the unique historical significance of this great Scottish institution.

Without Hearts, professional football as we know it would not exist.

Jack Alexander

McCrae’s Battalion Trust"

NOLA
28-09-2013, 08:16 AM
maybe throw up :wink:

poolman
28-09-2013, 08:23 AM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-boss-gary-locke-awe-2312949


Thats better

Was totally annoyed at this story :greengrin

Jim44
28-09-2013, 08:30 AM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-boss-gary-locke-awe-2312949


Thats better

Was totally annoyed at this story :greengrin

It's all over the sports section of the Scotsman. With all due respect to the Hearts guys who may very well have made a contribution to the war effort, this is certainly not the place to pay tribute to them, particularly given the gross misconduct of Hearts in the war charity scandal.

Danderhall Hibs
28-09-2013, 08:31 AM
Doesn't make me sick.

Why has it taken so long to do it?

1two
28-09-2013, 08:36 AM
As much as they like to play on the Macraes Batallion thing which at times becomes a bit cringeworthy, I don't see much wrong with this.

clerriehibs
28-09-2013, 08:37 AM
We were top in November last year.

Certainly wasn't our greatest ever team.

It's just about sticking something on the wongadome wall to pretend it's listed or something.

mim
28-09-2013, 08:41 AM
As much as they like to play on the Macraes Batallion thing which at times becomes a bit cringeworthy, I don't see much wrong with this.

Can you just remind me what the poppy signifies again?

Tom Hart RIP
28-09-2013, 10:37 AM
Congratulations to whoever commissioned and paid for the plaque at Tynecastle which is a fitting tribute to the brave Hearts players who volunteered to fight in that terrible war. My understanding is that the directors of Hibs buy a wreath for the Haymarket memorial every year and attend the event. With regard to Hibs, a number of our players fought in the conflict. Three immediately spring to mind. Second Lieutenant Sandy Grosert joined Macrae's Battalion then transferred to the Machine Gun Corps where he won a military cross for conspicuous gallantry. He was severely gassed but returned to Easter Road after the war. Also and probably more well known was Bobby Atherton who played in the 1902 Scottish Cup win. He joined the navy and died when Britania was sunk by a German mine or submarine in 1917. Sergeant Paddy Hagan, a former hibs player died at the Somme while serving with the 11th Battalion Royal Scots. There are many others whose names escape me, but everyone who volunteered to fight in that awful war was a hero in my opinion no matter what team they played for and may they all rest in peace.

NORTHERNHIBBY
28-09-2013, 10:57 AM
As much as they like to play on the Macraes Batallion thing which at times becomes a bit cringeworthy, I don't see much wrong with this.

But isn't that the point? There are two strands to this. No one can really have any issues with what happened to these brave men, but we will all have similar stories in our own backgrounds. I have ancestors that died in action at Ypres and died because of wounds at Passchendaele, but I don't claim that their sacrifice was any more or less gallant or worthy than any of the other soldiers.

If anyone tarnishes the memory these men, it is some of the Hearts fans themselves.

The Green Goblin
28-09-2013, 12:17 PM
The only thing I don't care for is the mentioning of the 1914 team in connection with today's Hearts shenanigans, like Southern has done (e.g "we deserve special consideration because of our history" etc) and team. (E.g "our young boys are showing the spirit of 1914" etc.) That for me is shameful stuff, given Hearts' last few years of excess, arrogance and now shafting creditors for millions, including hospitals and charities etc) and it really casts a shadow over what should be a proper and dignified spirit of commemoration of the sacrifice the men from Hearts and other clubs, including our own, made. It's a great shame really.

NAE NOOKIE
28-09-2013, 05:29 PM
All I can add to this debate is that I hope the guy who cast the plaque got his money up front.

Sir David Gray
28-09-2013, 06:45 PM
The only thing I don't care for is the mentioning of the 1914 team in connection with today's Hearts shenanigans, like Southern has done (e.g "we deserve special consideration because of our history" etc) and team. (E.g "our young boys are showing the spirit of 1914" etc.) That for me is shameful stuff, given Hearts' last few years of excess, arrogance and now shafting creditors for millions, including hospitals and charities etc) and it really casts a shadow over what should be a proper and dignified spirit of commemoration of the sacrifice the men from Hearts and other clubs, including our own, made. It's a great shame really.

Is this an actual quote or even remotely similar to a quote that one of them has come out with? :confused:

Surely not!

If so, that is an absolute scandal and something has to be said about that.

How anyone could even think about drawing similarities between what the Hearts players faced in 1914 and the nonsense that's engulfing the club just now, is just beyond comprehension.

That has to be a really bad wind up!

brog
28-09-2013, 06:55 PM
[QUOTE=Leith Mo;3758714]As I said in my response to the OP - here is the original thread I started on this some time ago. The problem is they honestly believe they were "unique" in their sacrifice and have usurped the historical memory and twisted it to suit their own version of "FACT".

Hearts Fan letter from 18th June published in the Scotsman:

The current crisis at Tynecastle has generated a great deal of hyperbole.

Hearts are routinely compared with Third Lanark, Airdrieonians, Gretna, Clydebank, Dunfermline and the team formerly known as Rangers FC. Some observers would have us believe that the club is in imminent danger of liquidation.

There is, however, one fundamental difference between Hearts and these other troubled combinations which most observers have failed to mention. Heart of Midlothian remain the only football club in Great Britain whose fame is not solely founded on honours won on the sporting field.

Next year sees the centenary of the voluntary enlistment of a squad of idealistic young Hearts players in a battalion of Lord Kitchener’s New Army.

Their sacrifice single-handedly prevented the sport of professional football from being “stopped” by Herbert Asquith’s government.

In 2016 we will commemorate the centenary of the destruction of that magnificent battalion in one tragic hour on the Somme.
Growing up in Scotland in the 1960s I used to wonder at the open affection displayed towards Hearts throughout the country.
Prospective investors in the club must be made aware of the unique historical significance of this great Scottish institution.
Without Hearts, professional football as we know it would not exist.
Jack Alexander
McCrae’s Battalion Trust
Here is my response - a much edited version of which appears online today so I'll need to see if they've printed any more - but given that it is the establishment paper and a Jambo mouthpiece I'd doubt it:

Sir,

I write in response to the letter from Jack Alexander, McCrea's Battalion Trust published in yesterday's edition. As Mr Alexander rightly states the recent events surrounding the apparent demise of his beloved HMFC have indeed "generated a great deal of hyperbole" yet I fear that Mr Alexander and his colleagues are themselves exponents of such hyperbole at best and at worst of a gross misinterpretation of historical facts.

Firstly, his contention that HMFC "remain the only football team in Great Britain whose fame is not solely founded on honours won on the sporting field" beggars belief. A quick search of historical fact will enable him to realise one hopes that others, including but not restricted to: Celtic (7 deaths); Brechin (6); Bradford (9); Newcastle (7); and West Ham (5) also made the ultimate sacrifice for a cause they believed in. Other sporting institutions in Edinburgh and beyond also suffered the same fate, for example the majority of the Edinburgh Academy Rugby championship-winning team of a few years prior to 1914 losing their lives.

To assert that the sacrifice of HMFC "single-handedly prevented…professional football being stopped by…government" is an indication of the maroon-tinted version of history that supporters of other clubs have by now come to expect and largely ignore from followers of the stricken Edinburgh club. The implication is one which is strengthened by their adoption in recent years of a trench-like mentality and arrogance in which they are "the Big Team" hounded by all around them, especially their local neighbours Hibernian (or the so-called "Wee Team" ) in our capital city.
I too grew up in 1960s Scotland and can recall not one hint of open affection towards HMFC throughout the country, merely a strong footballing rivalry which extended even to my own "mixed" Hibernian-Hibs household. Indeed, my uncle was the only son of my grandmother's first husband, himself killed in May 1916 before the carnage of the Somme. The fact that this serving regular army soldier's (and as such one of the first to see action) sacrifice was in fact denied by his own brothers, George "Geordie" Sinclair (a famous former captain and Scotland internationalist) and Willie Sinclair, both players for HMFC at the time, on the grounds that their brother's wife was a Hibernian-supporting Roman Catholic merely serves to strengthen my own personal recognition of the sacrifice made by so many of all footballing and other persuasions during the Great War. Had their brother not died, perhaps my grandmother may never have re-married and perhaps my own father and therefore I myself may never have been born. I would challenge Mr Alexander and others who by implication and inference support the claim that not only did HMFC win the war but also saved football to stand head bowed in front of a Great War grave containing the remains of a man with such implications, and then perhaps understand the true meaning of war and sacrifice.
I for one can not extend any sympathy to the usurpation of historical memory which Mr Alexander and his colleagues and many in the stands of Tynecastle continue to promote. The War was one which affected all, some more than others and certainly others more than Hearts. The Haymarket Clock, for which funds were raised in a charity match played between Hibernian and HMFC as a memorial to ALL sportsmen of Edinburgh from whatever club or sport is a living example of the manner in which Mr Alexander and his ilk and HMFC officially stole the historical memory of the tragedy that unfolded in those years. Prospective investors should indeed be made aware of a history which includes such unique misinterpretation of historical fact and more recent events which may yet turn out to involve theft of a different nature.
Without Hearts, "professional football as we know it would not exist" he claims, to which one can only respond without HMFC professional football may well be a better, open and honest environment. However, perhaps with better management and education, Scottish football may well continue to have a place for Heart of Midlothian in order that some amongst their following can embark on a new and, one would hope this time, accurately interpreted chapter.

LEST THEY FORGET - THIEVING ****BO LIARS

An excellent letter, well done. The sad thing is that the Hearts players of 1914 really do deserve our great respect but the hyperbole & occasional downright lies only serve to tarnish their memories.

The Green Goblin
28-09-2013, 09:18 PM
Is this an actual quote or even remotely similar to a quote that one of them has come out with? :confused:

Surely not!

If so, that is an absolute scandal and something has to be said about that.

How anyone could even think about drawing similarities between what the Hearts players faced in 1914 and the nonsense that's engulfing the club just now, is just beyond comprehension.

That has to be a really bad wind up!

Hi FH. It is not an exact quote, so my apologies for the speech marks- not trying to mislead though...I was paraphrasing an article/letter from Southern he posted on the yams official site. I can't find it just now (out and about) but will try to dig it out and find the accurate quote. However, I can say I have seen plenty of fans making a connection in the way I described.

Cheers.

Geo_1875
29-09-2013, 06:49 AM
I'm confused with this McCraes Battallion thing. My understanding is that a battallion is a group of between 300 and 1200 soldiers made up of a number of companies. A company has a minimum of 80 soldiers. So even at the height of Romanov's reign when they had 60+ registered players hertz would have struggled to form a company let alone a full battalion.

StevieC
29-09-2013, 07:48 AM
I am sure that I read that it was players from Hibs, Hearts, Dunfermline, Raith etc. that joined up after a scathing letter in the paper about football players not signing up. It was the younger single players that signed up, and those that were married were not under so much pressure. As Hearts had a young team at the time they provided more players than the other teams, but in no way a majority of the total number of players that signed up.

As I grew up I knew there was always a remembrance at Haymarket, but had never heard of McRaes Battallion until Jack Alexander went on a one man mission to promote it and seeking funds. He even came onto these message boards promoting it but has been conspicuous by has absence since the lukewarm response and has since went "all out" in promoting it as an HoMFC charity and trying to rewrite history.

McRaes Battallion was up and running and had many many good men signed up long before a slowing of the recruitment drive saw them turn towards football clubs (in general, not simply HoMFC). I find it shameful the way that HoMFC promote their association with the Battallion in the way that they do, and the way Jack Alexander has used the association for gain (be it for promotion of his book, funds to the charity, or trying to raise the image of his football club).

connerg
29-09-2013, 12:27 PM
Weren't football players including Hearts and Hibs shamed into joining up as thousands already had? Don't see why they keep harping on about something that everyone done at that time,no disrespect intended . One website says 11 out of 1350 soldiers on Macraes Battalion were Hearts players !

Correct, they were called "the white feathers of Midlothian" at the time.

Www1875hfc
29-09-2013, 01:37 PM
Check out the scenes at Ibrox yesterday, Why don't Hearts do it in the same style ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEJjSqslJt4

ginger_rice
29-09-2013, 03:22 PM
Check out the scenes at Ibrox yesterday, Why don't Hearts do it in the same style ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEJjSqslJt4

Got to say as an ex-serviceman I find that completely unacceptable, in the 70's and 80's you would have been on a charge of bringing the uniform into disrepute, I saw the same there last year with someone in uniform waving a King Billy scarf above their head.:grr:

To get back to the OP, it's a shame that certain people have hijacked not just McRae's battalion but the whole forces thing for petty point scoring. I take 60 kids annually to Flanders and the Somme, each year we stop at Contalmaison and each year I've left a Hibs scarf behind, we use Contalmaison to show the kids that there are things in life more important than football, the kids are also told that the money to build the memorial didn't just come from Hearts supporters but from supporters of all clubs and none, including money from Hibs themselves (The tour guide is a Jambo and was heavily involved with setting up this memorial), we also use it to highlight that fans of two great rival can get together and work together in such a way.

Next year when I go back I'm thinking of taking a poppy wreath with the Hibs crest instead of a scarf.

AndyM_1875
29-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Check out the scenes at Ibrox yesterday, Why don't Hearts do it in the same style ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEJjSqslJt4

I showed that to my aging father, an old soldier who served in the Army for many years.

"Vulgar and classless" was his description. He also reckoned that his father and grandfather would have had their own thoughts as well on Glasgow Rangers hosting this "event" seeing as they spent the Great War "hiding in the shipyards". :devil:

ronaldo7
29-09-2013, 07:48 PM
If only they would get on with their unveiling of plaques and the likes without bringing other teams fans into it.

Post number 30 on the KB thread just goes to show they can't help themselves. The comments were made by brownkg. I think he posts on here sometimes so if he's reading this, he might take some time to explain his post, and is the guy in the photo on the scotsman site one and the same brownk(eith)g??

Here's his post.

The bronze is in place , it was put up on Monday afternoon. Those who were behind the main stand last night might have seen it. the locals and keen could go down now and gaurd against any nefarious actions by wee team supporters prior to tomorrow's ceremony.
I have pictures of it from July but here is one from Monday that I can share with you

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/133194-jambos-kickback-announcement-1914-team-bronze-unveiling/

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hearts-inspired-by-fallen-tynecastle-heroes-1-3116011

eastterrace
29-09-2013, 07:56 PM
If only they would get on with their unveiling of plaques and the likes without bringing other teams fans into it.

Post number 30 on the KB thread just goes to show they can't help themselves. The comments were made by brownkg. I think he posts on here sometimes so if he's reading this, he might take some time to explain his post, and is the guy in the photo on the scotsman site one and the same brownk(eith)g??

Here's his post.

The bronze is in place , it was put up on Monday afternoon. Those who were behind the main stand last night might have seen it. the locals and keen could go down now and gaurd against any nefarious actions by wee team supporters prior to tomorrow's ceremony.
I have pictures of it from July but here is one from Monday that I can share with you

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/133194-jambos-kickback-announcement-1914-team-bronze-unveiling/

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/latest/hearts-inspired-by-fallen-tynecastle-heroes-1-3116011

why does he think someone would deface it, is it something he would do if the shoe was on the other foot , weird guy.

QMU-1875
29-09-2013, 08:57 PM
Was having some banter with two jambos a couple of weeks ago and could not believe when one if them turned round and said "aye but oor club helped tae win the world war, nae one else made the sacrifice like!". Was absolutely shocked at the arrogance of that statement. Even his jambo mate couldn't stop laughing at him.

P.S that comment taken from jkb is unbelievable! There is not a chance that either team in this rivalry would act in such a manner to a memorial. If he sees this he needs to have a look at himself. Disgraceful.

Geo_1875
29-09-2013, 09:11 PM
Does their lovely new plaque form part of the fabric of the stadium and as such liable to be sold for scrap when they go pop?

Phil D. Rolls
29-09-2013, 09:22 PM
I always saw it coming to this. I think it is for Hearts to treat the event with the respect they used to. It's beyond the t-shirts, and banners.

Personally, I think it's down to younger fans that see it as pop culture, rather than something that was unfair on the Hearts players. They need to focus on the tragedy and pointless loss of life.

Many of us have always admired Hearts for what happened. It was nothing to do with football and should remain so.