Any Refs on here?

[Scouse Hibee]

A mate in work was telling me of an incident in his laddies U13 game on Saturday when his team were awarded a penalty near the end of the game. The regular penalty taker was carrying an injury so was an unused substitute at this point, (rolling substitutions are used) the coach told the ref he was bringing him on as a sub to take the penalty yet the ref wouldn't allow it! Surely the referee was wrong?

[Alan62]

Sums up most of what's wrong with Scottish Youth Football. Teams that will do anything to win. Coaches who play players who are carrying injuries rather than resting them until they're properly fit. Confusion around the 'rules'. Unsporting attitudes all round and a focus on getting a result rather than concentrating on skill development.

To answer your question, though, if the ball is out of play, a rolling sub can be brought on. The ref probably didn't want the hassle that would have developed when the opposition supporters clocked the lad coming on to stroke the ball into the huge spaces around the tiny little goalkeeper stuck between adult posts.

No doubt he got endless grief regardless.

Having been through the youth set up as a coach, I'd scrap competitive football until U15 and concentrate on small sided, skill based coaching. Won't happen here though because we're the world champions of U13 football and youth football is stuffed full of 'winners' who'll do pretty much anything to win those plastic medals and shiny cups with marble bases and golden figures on top.

[HTD1875]

Sounds a bit daft having a specialist penalty kick taker at that age anyway, was always "makers takers" in my team :greengrin.

[JimBHibees]

Sums up most of what's wrong with Scottish Youth Football. Teams that will do anything to win. Coaches who play players who are carrying injuries rather than resting them until they're properly fit. Confusion around the 'rules'. Unsporting attitudes all round and a focus on getting a result rather than concentrating on skill development.

To answer your question, though, if the ball is out of play, a rolling sub can be brought on. The ref probably didn't want the hassle that would have developed when the opposition supporters clocked the lad coming on to stroke the ball into the huge spaces around the tiny little goalkeeper stuck between adult posts.

No doubt he got endless grief regardless.

Having been through the youth set up as a coach, I'd scrap competitive football until U15 and concentrate on small sided, skill based coaching. Won't happen here though because we're the world champions of U13 football and youth football is stuffed full of 'winners' who'll do pretty much anything to win those plastic medals and shiny cups with marble bases and golden figures on top.

Agree with all of that as a coach of a U13 team completely agree with the sentiment entirely. The total nonsense of sometimes small goalies playing in adults goals and strikers getting a goal just because they can shoot a ball high is farcical and helps no-one. As you say take the competitive element out until 14 or so and play in smaller goals and smaller pitches. 9 a side for a couple of years or 9 a side for one year then a developmental 11s e.g smaller goals and smaller pitch would make much more sense however the committee blazers wouldnt be happy about that.

[hfc rd]

Sums up most of what's wrong with Scottish Youth Football. Teams that will do anything to win. Coaches who play players who are carrying injuries rather than resting them until they're properly fit. Confusion around the 'rules'. Unsporting attitudes all round and a focus on getting a result rather than concentrating on skill development.

To answer your question, though, if the ball is out of play, a rolling sub can be brought on. The ref probably didn't want the hassle that would have developed when the opposition supporters clocked the lad coming on to stroke the ball into the huge spaces around the tiny little goalkeeper stuck between adult posts.

No doubt he got endless grief regardless.

Having been through the youth set up as a coach, I'd scrap competitive football until U15 and concentrate on small sided, skill based coaching. Won't happen here though because we're the world champions of U13 football and youth football is stuffed full of 'winners' who'll do pretty much anything to win those plastic medals and shiny cups with marble bases and golden figures on top.



Agree with this.

[gogsy23]

The biggest asset to a referee should be common sense. I also think being a player or having a good understanding really helps. You can always tell the ones that have played.

Agree withabove posters.

[Miguel]

Having coached at soccer sevens and 11 a side, I think the skills development v competition debate is a bit black and white: the essence of sport is competition and kids love competing.
As long as it doesn't get out of hand, and is coupled with proper coaching, it has its place.
But some 'coaches' take it too far and shouldn't be anywhere near schools/youth football.

[Hibee87]

I thought you could only bring on a sub if the ball is out of play for a corner or throwin or goal kick.....dont think you can make subs if its just a free kick and/or penalty can you :-/

[HibeesLA]

I thought you could only bring on a sub if the ball is out of play for a corner or throwin or goal kick.....dont think you can make subs if its just a free kick and/or penalty can you :-/

You can make substitutions at any stoppage in play. You can also swap your goalkeeper with an outfield player at any stoppage, as long as the referee is informed.

[easty]

Agree with all of that as a coach of a U13 team completely agree with the sentiment entirely. The total nonsense of sometimes small goalies playing in adults goals and strikers getting a goal just because they can shoot a ball high is farcical and helps no-one. As you say take the competitive element out until 14 or so and play in smaller goals and smaller pitches. 9 a side for a couple of years or 9 a side for one year then a developmental 11s e.g smaller goals and smaller pitch would make much more sense however the committee blazers wouldnt be happy about that.

I cant see the competitive element being taken out of football for under 14's. Bairns love to play football, but they want to win at it. Take away the prizes and you'd lose some desire.

[Black Kyle]

Spot on. It starts with the SFA, SYFA etc and then descends - clubs, coaches and parents are all in for a 'win at all costs' rather than develop skills and abilities.



Sums up most of what's wrong with Scottish Youth Football. Teams that will do anything to win. Coaches who play players who are carrying injuries rather than resting them until they're properly fit. Confusion around the 'rules'. Unsporting attitudes all round and a focus on getting a result rather than concentrating on skill development.

To answer your question, though, if the ball is out of play, a rolling sub can be brought on. The ref probably didn't want the hassle that would have developed when the opposition supporters clocked the lad coming on to stroke the ball into the huge spaces around the tiny little goalkeeper stuck between adult posts.

No doubt he got endless grief regardless.

Having been through the youth set up as a coach, I'd scrap competitive football until U15 and concentrate on small sided, skill based coaching. Won't happen here though because we're the world champions of U13 football and youth football is stuffed full of 'winners' who'll do pretty much anything to win those plastic medals and shiny cups with marble bases and golden figures on top.

[cocopops1875]

Another first for Hibs introducing non competitive football for professional footballers over the last few years (insert devil smiley)

[SmashinGlass]

Spot on. It starts with the SFA, SYFA etc and then descends - clubs, coaches and parents are all in for a 'win at all costs' rather than develop skills and abilities.

Whilst this may be true for some at kids level, it's certainly not the case for most I'd say. As a coach of soccer 7's, the majority of teams I come up against are fair and do not coach there teams in the win at all costs mentality. The kids are naturally competitive and they don't need it coached into them. I, for myself and I also think I can say this on behalf of all coaches at my club, would never coach the win at all costs mentality.

[brian6-2]

Thats a bit rotten and disresepctful to the lads doing the work on the park i would say. esspecially at under 13 level id say its the coach that needs to have a wee word with himself.

That aside, rules are rules and there is no reason why he shouldnt have been allowed on.

[JimBHibees]

I cant see the competitive element being taken out of football for under 14's. Bairns love to play football, but they want to win at it. Take away the prizes and you'd lose some desire.

I think they can still be competitive without necessarily any trophies involved though e.g there arent any league tables and cups. Kids will naturally want to win however they dont need to see they are bottom of the league or losing by 10 or 12 goals each week. Up to say 14 it should be about skills and a smaller game. We have moved to 11s in August there and the propensity is for teams to kick in longer than might have happened before. Given that the kids play in adults goals IMO before they should then the chance is that a more dominant team will win by a much larger scoreline than would normally be the case in smaller goals. Just my view however to me the pathway is flawed and the SFA should take some responsibility some regions I think Fife and Borders play a development 11s with smaller goals and pitch though most regions dont.

[JimBHibees]

Spot on. It starts with the SFA, SYFA etc and then descends - clubs, coaches and parents are all in for a 'win at all costs' rather than develop skills and abilities.

I think that is a sweeping generalisation it is just like anything in life that there will be good coaches, clubs and parents and some not so good. The SFA coaching sessions are pretty good IMO and also there Positive Coaching initiative is also very good however it is up to the clubs and coaches to implement fully the initiative.

[Scouse Hibee]

Thanks for the comments guys, with regards to the comment about the coach, I should add that three different players had missed their last three penalties and confidence was that low that no-one was willing to take it hence the coach asking the regular penalty taker if he fancied it which he did. The player in question has been on the sidelines for 3 weeks with his injury and played no part but simply been there to keep him invloved. As it was very near the end the penalty may well have been his only kick.

[brian6-2]

I think that is a sweeping generalisation it is just like anything in life that there will be good coaches, clubs and parents and some not so good. The SFA coaching sessions are pretty good IMO and also there Positive Coaching initiative is also very good however it is up to the clubs and coaches to implement fully the initiative.

They are excellent. Hence the reason scotland is one of the only countries you can come to, to complete them.

Even from a young age i believe its good to have a bit of competition but only from a certain age, maybe around 12/13.

Im doing my C Licence in november and have been lucky enough to see the way the work in Holland, the boys over there at 9/10 are playing on pitches the size of 18 yard boxes, the nets in the goals have a ball sized hole in them and the lads are encouraged to run behind the goal if they can, if they can get it through the hole they get 2 goals. all the focus is on improving the skill, touch and most importantly confidence of these young lads. they wont play competative football untill the age of 12/13.

[dangermouse]

You can make substitutions at any stoppage in play. You can also swap your goalkeeper with an outfield player at any stoppage, as long as the referee is informed.

A few seasons ago I was in charge of my son's team and we got a penalty at the start of the second half. The opposition had changed their keeper at half time but did not inform the ref so when the keeper picked up the ball it was deemed as hand ball. My son dispatched the penalty with aplomb but we still lost :boo hoo:

[scotiaf]

I ag
Sums up most of what's wrong with Scottish Youth Football. Teams that will do anything to win. Coaches who play players who are carrying injuries rather than resting them until they're properly fit. Confusion around the 'rules'. Unsporting attitudes all round and a focus on getting a result rather than concentrating on skill development.

To answer your question, though, if the ball is out of play, a rolling sub can be brought on. The ref probably didn't want the hassle that would have developed when the opposition supporters clocked the lad coming on to stroke the ball into the huge spaces around the tiny little goalkeeper stuck between adult posts.

No doubt he got endless grief regardless.

Having been through the youth set up as a coach, I'd scrap competitive football until U15 and concentrate on small sided, skill based coaching. Won't happen here though because we're the world champions of U13 football and youth football is stuffed full of 'winners' who'll do pretty much anything to win those plastic medals and shiny cups with marble bases and golden figures on top.

I agree with all that, but the big thing that seems to be missing from kids now, is now as its all skill based training none of them get taught to tackle properly or to run. so the right things are getting trained but the pure basics are now being forgotten

[SmashinGlass]

I ag

I agree with all that, but the big thing that seems to be missing from kids now, is now as its all skill based training none of them get taught to tackle properly or to run. so the right things are getting trained but the pure basics are now being forgotten

I couldn't agree more. When I queried this on an SFA course, I was told that we should be concentrating on skills and getting the kids competent with the ball at their feet. This is all very well and good, but what happens when the opposition have the ball? To start with, I had major problems as my kids simply stopped running and gave up, with the exception of 1 or 2. I've now developed some drills that I do with them regularly and their defending abilities are improving, but it did annoy me somewhat that the SFA are happy to simply ignore this area of the game. A fairly fundamental area at that.