Collins' disallowed goal

[CallumLaidlaw]

Just having a look at this again on sportscene. Was he offside?

Yes he was in an offside position, but it was a st Mirren player that knocked the ball into his path. Has the rule changed on that now?

[Andy74]

Just having a look at this again on sportscene. Was he offside?

Yes he was in an offside position, but it was a st Mirren player that knocked the ball into his path. Has the rule changed on that now?

He was offside at the time it was played by a Hibs player though.

[Jones28]

He was offside when the ball was played.

[Hibercelona]

When a player is offside as the ball leaves their team mates foot, it doesn't matter if it comes off an opposition player first before reaching the intended player. It is still offside.

If the player is onside when the ball leaves the team mates foot, but is in an offside position as the ball takes a touch off the opposition player, then it should not be flagged up as offside.

[Hibbyradge]

When a player is offside as the ball leaves their team mates foot, it doesn't matter if it comes off an opposition player first before reaching the intended player. It is still offside.

If the player is onside when the ball leaves the team mates foot, but is in an offside position as the ball takes a touch off the opposition player, then it should not be flagged up as offside.

Not correct!

Not if the opponent deliberately played the ball, apart from a deliberate save.

[Hibercelona]

Not correct!

Not if the opponent deliberately played the ball, apart from a deliberate save.

That doesn't make sense. Of course the opponent will deliberately try and play the ball. That's exactly what they're doing when they try to intercept the through pass. But if the player who the through pass is intended for is onside when it leaves their team mates foot, an attempted interception should not lead to an offside, even if the player the pass is intended for happens to be in an offside position when the intercepter gets a touch of the ball.

[MB62]

I said it at the game and still question whether it was offside.
Hibs player shoots, the keeper cleared it forward, it then comes back the way off a St. Mirren player to Collins who bangs it in the net. Two defenders play the ball before it gets to Collins, both times the ball changes direction and IMO the goal should have stood.
I can't get to grips with all this 2nd phase stuff but from my confused understanding, that should have been a goal.

[dangermouse]

Cast your minds back to the game against Falkirk at Easter Road during the "Great Adventure". Can't remember who scored our second but the linesman flagged for off side. However, the referee allowed the goal to stand because the PASS was made by a Falkirk player (he obviously didn't intend it to go to a Hibs player) so our striker was not offside.

On Saturday, no St Mirren play intentionally passed the ball, it was a save and a ricochet that let the ball find its way to Collins and he was therefore offside as he had been when the ball was initially played in.

[blackpoolhibs]

Collins appeared to be in an offside position when the Hibs player (Robertson) initially played the ball forward, therefore Collins was offside.

[MB62]

Just read up on the rule and this is what it says

“gaining an advantage by being in that position” means playing a ball that
rebounds to him off a goalpost or the crossbar having been in an offside
position or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having
been in an offside position"

Looks like he was offside right enough

[Hibbyradge]

Collins appeared to be in an offside position when the Hibs player (Robertson) initially played the ball forward, therefore Collins was offside.

Not necessarily!

[Hibbyradge]

Scenario.

Player A is 10 yards behind the last defender, jogging back towards an "onside" position.

Player B (Team mate) thumps the ball forward.

Player C (opposition defender), attempts to clear the ball, but sclaffs it towards player A.

Player A is onside.

[happiehibbie]

lets get the salt and pepper shakers out and i will try to explain NOT !!!

personaly i think this offiside rule is a lot of P sh the games about goals

[MB62]

Scenario.

Player A is 10 yards behind the last defender, jogging back towards an "onside" position.

Player B (Team mate) thumps the ball forward.

Player C (opposition defender), attempts to clear the ball, but sclaffs it towards player A.

Player A is onside.

I think the fact player C (defender) ATTEMPTS to play the ball means player A would be onside. Unfortunately, in the case of Collins offside goal, the ball REBOUNDED off a defender and that was why it was given as offside.
If Collins had let the ball go for a corner, we would have scored from it won 3-0. That Collins is hopeless :wink: :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

I think the fact player C (defender) ATTEMPTS to play the ball means player A would be onside. Unfortunately, in the case of Collins offside goal, the ball REBOUNDED off a defender and that was why it was given as offside.


Spot on. :agree:

[SaulGoodman]

lets get the salt and pepper shakers out and i will try to explain NOT !!!

personaly i think this offiside rule is a lot of P sh the games about goals

The game would be massively unfair if the offside rule wasn't there.

[Posh Swanny]

Collins appeared to be in an offside position when the Hibs player (Robertson) initially played the ball forward



Player B (Team mate) thumps the ball forward.


I know it's not really relevant in this case, but I was amazed to discover recently that the ball doesn't actually have to be played forward for a player to be given offside.

[Hibbyradge]

The game would be massively unfair if the offside rule wasn't there.

It wouldn't so much be unfair.

It would be awful.

You'd end up with folk hanging around in the opponent's penalty box, just waiting for the ball to be thumped forward to them.

There would be no need for other tactics and passing skills wouldn't be particularly important.

As soon as a "midfield" player was closed down, rather than pass and move to make space, they'd just punt it up to the forwards to deal with.

The offside rule is absolutely vital to football.

[Hibbyradge]

I know it's not really relevant in this case, but I was amazed to discover recently that the ball doesn't actually have to be played forward for a player to be given offside.

Run that one by me...:confused:

[mim]

Run that one by me...:confused:

He's right. Think about centre forward standing offside on 6 yard line when winger 10 yards out cuts the ball back to the penalty spot. If the centre moves back to play the ball, he is offside.

[Hibbyradge]

He's right. Think about centre forward standing offside on 6 yard line when winger 10 yards out cuts the ball back to the penalty spot. If the centre moves back to play the ball, he is offside.

That's right.

Nice one, guys. :aok:

[Craig_in_Prague]

I thought it was only women that didn't understand the offside rule............ :)

[Hibbyradge]

I thought it was only women that didn't understand the offside rule............ :)

Match of the Day pundits are all men.

[SMAXXA]

Scenario.

Player A is 10 yards behind the last defender, jogging back towards an "onside" position.

Player B (Team mate) thumps the ball forward.

Player C (opposition defender), attempts to clear the ball, but sclaffs it towards player A.

Player A is onside.

:agree:

Correct, this rule has only been grout in this season, refs told us about it first game of the season and us and the other management team agree its a horrendous rule. The refs themselves hate it also so it may cause some confusion as the season goes on if players fall into this scenario

[dangermouse]

Offside rule explained by a hibs.net expert (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?248338-How-to-explain-the-offside-rule-to-women)

[Hibbyradge]

:agree:

Correct, this rule has only been grout in this season, refs told us about it first game of the season and us and the other management team agree its a horrendous rule. The refs themselves hate it also so it may cause some confusion as the season goes on if players fall into this scenario

The rule has always been there. The interpretation has been tightened up.

What about this scenario?

Player A is 10 yards behind the last defender, jogging back towards an "onside" position.

Player B (Team mate) thumps the ball forward.

Player C (opposition defender), intercepts the pass, and passes it back to his keeper, without realising player A is behind him.

[Vini1875]

I had a bet on 2-0 so Collins was defintely off side as far as I'm concerned.

[hibs4thecup1988]

I had a bet on 2-0 so Collins was defintely off side as far as I'm concerned.

Me and you both Vini :greengrin

[LeithBoozy]

Yes he was offside, he was almost in Tamsons.

[--------]

The game would be massively unfair if the offside rule wasn't there.


It wouldn't so much be unfair.

It would be awful.

You'd end up with folk hanging around in the opponent's penalty box, just waiting for the ball to be thumped forward to them.

There would be no need for other tactics and passing skills wouldn't be particularly important.

As soon as a "midfield" player was closed down, rather than pass and move to make space, they'd just punt it up to the forwards to deal with.

The offside rule is absolutely vital to football.


Might I remind you gentlemen that Hibs won the first of our two Drybrough Cups in a match where the offside rule was greatly relaxed?

IIRC in that game the 18-yard lines were extended all the way across the pitch and a player could only be offside between that line and the goal-line.

Apart from an unfortunate crisis of confidence in the last 10 minutes, we owned Celtic that afternoon.

And my memory is that Arfur on the left wing LOVED it ..... :greengrin

[mim]

The rule has always been there. The interpretation has been tightened up.

What about this scenario?

Player A is 10 yards behind the last defender, jogging back towards an "onside" position.

Player B (Team mate) thumps the ball forward.

Player C (opposition defender), intercepts the pass, and passes it back to his keeper, without realising player A is behind him. Onside, as phase 2 started when defender took control of the ball

[Hibbyradge]

Onside, as phase 2 started when defender took control of the ball

Correct.

This applies even if the defender passed it with his first touch.

This wouldn't be the case if the forward had made an effort to get to the ball before the defender or interfered with play in any other way. :greengrin

[Alan62]

The game would be massively unfair if the offside rule wasn't there.

How?

[SaulGoodman]

How?

Is that not obvious?

[lumbo_hfc]

The rule has always been there. The interpretation has been tightened up.

What about this scenario?

Player A is 10 yards behind the last defender, jogging back towards an "onside" position.

Player B (Team mate) thumps the ball forward.

Player C (opposition defender), intercepts the pass, and passes it back to his keeper, without realising player A is behind him.


Correct.

This applies even if the defender passed it with his first touch.

This wouldn't be the case if the forward had made an effort to get to the ball before the defender or interfered with play in any other way. :greengrin

If that is the case why was collins goal on saturday ruled offside? As he wasn't going for it when robertson hit the shot, it just seemed to land at him via the deflection off there defender, is that not the 2nd phase or was it just because it wasn't intentional??

By the way i thought, old rules or new rules, it was offside. I just thought i would ask the question based on your last comment.

[SMAXXA]

Off topic but did any eagle eye soot something Collins done during the game aside from the football itself, and hitting the kid with the ball?

:na na: