Paddy Power - RBGF - Anti-homophobia laces (merged)

[JennaFletcher]

http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/16/stonewall-and-paddy-power-team-up-to-put-the-boot-into-football-homophobia-with-rainbow-coloured-bootlaces-4019279/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24104250

Really hope to see Hibs take part in this. Very important issue and the laces idea is smart! :agree:

[jacomo]

:agree:

Would be better if the whole team did it, rather than leaving it to individual players to decide.

What annoys me about this debate though is that the 'football industry' always passes the buck, saying that it's the attitude of the fans that is responsible for gay players staying in the closet and not coming out. I don't believe that for a second.

Football crowds will indulge in unsavoury chanting (and long may it continue! :wink:) but if the culture within the game was more supportive, I don't think this would matter.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'd say go for it, it worked with the respect initiative. :devil:

[JennaFletcher]

:agree:

Would be better if the whole team did it, rather than leaving it to individual players to decide.

What annoys me about this debate though is that the 'football industry' always passes the buck, saying that it's the attitude of the fans that is responsible for gay players staying in the closet and not coming out. I don't believe that for a second.

Football crowds will indulge in unsavoury chanting (and long may it continue! :wink:) but if the culture within the game was more supportive, I don't think this would matter.

Great to see such positive reactions on Twitter too using the hashtag - RBGF. Joey Barton https://twitter.com/Joey7Barton is very supportive of the campaign.

I really hope to see the club involved! (Loads of Scottish related rainbow laces tweets on www.twitter.com/StonewallScot (http://www.twitter.com/StonewallScot)).

[Leishy1995]

As as a guy that has gay relatives, I will probably wear the laces. Great idea.

[Pretty Boy]

Good idea imo.

I simply can't believe there aren't a fair few gay players, the fact most still feel the need to hide it in the 21st century is shameful.

[Woody70x2]

http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/16/stonewall-and-paddy-power-team-up-to-put-the-boot-into-football-homophobia-with-rainbow-coloured-bootlaces-4019279/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24104250

Really hope to see Hibs take part in this. Very important issue and the laces idea is smart! :agree:

Don't see the point in it to be honest. What will it achieve? It will not bother me one bit if Hibs or individual players for that matter didn't wear them.

[Woody70x2]

RBGF - right behind gay footballers :tee hee:

Maybe the simple fact is there are little to no gay footballers. My experiences is they played with the girls and didn't get muddy on the football park.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

This should be entertaining.

[hibsbollah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24104250

Have been sent to all Scottish clubs prior to the weekend games, apparently. Wonder if we'll be wearing them?

[Jonnyboy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24104250

Have been sent to all Scottish clubs prior to the weekend games, apparently. Wonder if we'll be wearing them?

I hope we do :agree:

[nonshinyfinish]

I hope we do :agree:

:agree:

[Aaron]

RBGF - right behind gay footballers :tee hee:

Maybe the simple fact is there are little to no gay footballers. My experiences is they played with the girls and didn't get muddy on the football park.

I personally know a professional footballer who is gay and plays in Scotland. Needless to say he is not 'out'.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 4

[Pretty Boy]

RBGF - right behind gay footballers :tee hee:

Maybe the simple fact is there are little to no gay footballers. My experiences is they played with the girls and didn't get muddy on the football park.

Theres an openly gay boxer, wrestler and basketball player. There is also 2 openly gay footballers, a lower league Swedish player and an LA Galaxy player. It stands to reason that of the 5000 players in the UK at least 1 is gay.

Personally i couldn't care less one way or another but it's totally wrong if someone feels they can't be open about their sexuality because of other peoples prejudices.

[Andy74]

Theres an openly gay boxer, wrestler and basketball player. There is also 2 openly gay footballers, a lower league Swedish player and an LA Galaxy player. It stands to reason that of the 5000 players in the UK at least 1 is gay.

Personally i couldn't care less one way or another but it's totally wrong if someone feels they can't be open about their sexuality because of other peoples prejudices.

I don't think many people would care either way to be honest.

[sleeping giant]

Theres an openly gay boxer, wrestler and basketball player. There is also 2 openly gay footballers, a lower league Swedish player and an LA Galaxy player. It stands to reason that of the 5000 players in the UK at least 1 is gay.

Personally i couldn't care less one way or another but it's totally wrong if someone feels they can't be open about their sexuality because of other peoples prejudices.


Why do people feel the need to be open about their sexuality ?

What difference does it make ?

[Pretty Boy]

Why do people feel the need to be open about their sexuality ?

What difference does it make ?

Would you like to feel the need to keep a major part of your life a secret?

It's not about having to shout it from the rooftops, it's about not having to hide it.

[marinello59]

Don't see the point in it to be honest. What will it achieve? It will not bother me one bit if Hibs or individual players for that matter didn't wear them.

It may achieve nothing and the bigots won't change their behaviour.. You have to agree there is nothing to lose by trying this though, is there?

[Brightside]

RBGF - right behind gay footballers :tee hee:

Maybe the simple fact is there are little to no gay footballers. My experiences is they played with the girls and didn't get muddy on the football park.

Has this guy been banned yet?

[bingo70]

Sounds like its the footballers that are being judgemental about the average football fan if they think we're all Neanderthal (sp?) homophobes

I don't think many folk would care and if they got a bit stick they'd do well just to laugh it off.

[Woody70x2]

Has this guy been banned yet?

Yeah because you say so... Give me one good reason why?!?

[Pretty Boy]

Sounds like its the footballers that are being judgemental about the average football fan if they think we're all Neanderthal (sp?) homophobes

I don't think many folk would care and if they got a bit stick they'd do well just to laugh it off.

Remember the grief Graeme Le Saux got a few years back? Because he preffered to read a broadsheet and further his education he took horrendous abuse about being a 'poof'.

Justin Fashanu was hardly well treated by fans, some fellow pros and a couple of managers either

[nonshinyfinish]

Why do people feel the need to be open about their sexuality ?

What difference does it make ?

People are, for social and purely statistical reasons, generally assumed to be straight. So you (I'm taking a punt on you being straight here, obviously) like most people, never need to be 'open' about your sexuality, because it is what everyone assumes it to be.

If you're not straight, then until you are at some point 'open' about it, then most people will be assuming that you're someone you're not. As PB says above, it's not that folk have to scream about it or broadcast the details, just that they shouldn't feel they have to hide it.

[bingo70]

This argument comes up a lot in these kind of discussions, with people asking why anybody needs to publicly declare their sexuality. But what is misunderstood is that "coming out" in this context is not about a player holding a press conference and saying "oh, guess what, I'm gay!" It's about a gay player being able to live his life the same as a straight player, without feeling the need to hide his personal relationship with his partner for fear of prejudice. A straight player can go for a romantic meal or kiss or hold hands with his wife without a big deal getting made of it. A gay player feels he has to hide his sexuality for whatever reasons.

It's not the point to try to encourage gay players to come out - if they want to keep their sexuality to themselves then that's perfectly fine, it's their business. But it's about creating an atmosphere/environment in which if they DO want to come out, they can do so without a backlash.



Exactly. :agree:

They can do all the same things straight footballers, if they choose not to then that's their problem and they need to stop trying to judge what people will think and get over it.

[Woody70x2]

I don't think many people would care either way to be honest.

This.

[Keith_M]

Does this mean we can't do the 'Paul Hartley is gay' chant anymore?

[Brightside]

Your comment is homophobic. Had it been racist plenty would have been calling for a ban. If you think there is nothing wrong with your comment then maybe you get why players dont come out.

[bingo70]

Remember the grief Graeme Le Saux got a few years back? Because he preffered to read a broadsheet and further his education he took horrendous abuse about being a 'poof'.

Justin Fashanu was hardly well treated by fans, some fellow pros and a couple of managers either

That was 10-20 years ago and the worlds moved on since then.

I also think that considering graham le saux was married and was common knowledge he was straight it was clearly a wind up.

Imo if a player came out as gay he'd get loads of support and very little grief about it.

[nonshinyfinish]

They can do all the same things straight footballers, if they choose not to then that's their problem and they need to stop trying to judge what people will think and get over it.

Yes, they could, but obviously something is stopping them. Since at least some people will feel they're able to come out in most other walks of life, the logical conclusion is that football has a problem that's preventing this, rather than 'it's their problem'. Whether that problem is more the fans, the other players, or the managers is hard to say. But it's clear IMO that there is a problem.

[blackpoolhibs]

Do gay people like flares, should they come out and tell us or does anyone care?

[Brightside]

That was 10-20 years ago and the worlds moved on since then.

I also think that considering graham le saux was married and was common knowledge he was straight it was clearly a wind up.

Imo if a player came out as gay he'd get loads of support and very little grief about it.

Well others obv feel different...including the "they play with the girls" guy.....:rolleyes:

[Keith_M]

Right Behind Gay Footballers.


If this is supposed to be a serious attempt at combatting homophobia, then why the Carry On film slogan?


Also, I'm not convinced that people wearing rainbow coloured laces is going to change peoples views one way or the other.

[bingo70]

Yes, they could, but obviously something is stopping them. Since at least some people will feel they're able to come out in most other walks of life, the logical conclusion is that football has a problem that's preventing this, rather than 'it's their problem'. Whether that problem is more the fans, the other players, or the managers is hard to say. But it's clear IMO that there is a problem.

I think they're making assumptions based on what it was like 20 years ago.

I also think that even if they are worried they owe it to the next generation of gay footballers to 'come out', them hiding away isn't helping anyone and if they're worried about supporters attitudes they're doing nothing to improve those attitudes and they're the only ones who can.

[nonshinyfinish]

Right Behind Gay Footballers.


If this is supposed to be a serious attempt at combatting homophobia, then why the Carry On film slogan?


Also, I'm not convinced that people wearing rainbow coloured laces is going to change peoples views one way or the other.

Agreed, I wouldn't have gone for the s******worthy slogan - the cynic in me thinks that PaddyPower are behind (fnarr :rolleyes:) that, since they appear willing to do pretty much anything for free publicity.

Re: the second point, one imagines that that intention is not that boot laces will change folks' views, but that the associated media attention will get folk talking about it (as seems fairly successful based on the isolated evidence of this thread).

[marinello59]

Right Behind Gay Footballers.


If this is supposed to be a serious attempt at combatting homophobia, then why the Carry On film slogan?


Also, I'm not convinced that people wearing rainbow coloured laces is going to change peoples views one way or the other.

They won't change people's views. Bigots will still be bigots but they tend to shut up when they realise their views are unacceptable to the majority. It's a show of support to a minority group which may or may not do some good but certainly won't do any harm.

[nonshinyfinish]

I think they're making assumptions based on what it was like 20 years ago.

I also think that even if they are worried they owe it to the next generation of gay footballers to 'come out', them hiding away isn't helping anyone and if they're worried about supporters attitudes they're doing nothing to improve those attitudes and they're the only ones who can.

I can see the argument that someone needs to step up and do it, and I'd like to think that we've moved on from Justin Fashanu's time (although some of the stuff you hear from football fans makes you wonder...). However, having seen the vile abuse that players get, often for very little reason, and having routinely heard homophobic (whether maliciously or otherwise) chants at football grounds, the question I ask myself is 'would I be brave enough to test the water like that?'

I can't honestly say that I would, maybe you can.

[Wembley67]

I'm sure it will make a huge difference and make everyone more welcoming.

[poolman]

http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/16/stonewall-and-paddy-power-team-up-to-put-the-boot-into-football-homophobia-with-rainbow-coloured-bootlaces-4019279/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24104250

Really hope to see Hibs take part in this. Very important

issue and the laces idea is smart! :agree:


I have a great mate who is gay

But l wouldn't say its a very important issue...why ?

Rainbow coloured laces ? Whoop-de-do

[blackpoolhibs]

I have a great mate who is gay

But l wouldn't say its a very important issue...why ?

Rainbow coloured laces ? Whoop-de-do

:agree: Blackpool has taken over from Brighton as the gay capital of Britain, there are rainbow coloured flags all over the place these days, but as long as it does not become compulsory, who really cares?

[nonshinyfinish]

I have a great mate who is gay

But l wouldn't say its a very important issue...why ?

Rainbow coloured laces ? Whoop-de-do


:agree: Blackpool has taken over from Brighton as the gay capital of Britain, there are rainbow coloured flags all over the place these days, but as long as it does not become compulsory, who really cares?

At great risk of repeating myself, since apparently no one cares, what is it stopping gay footballers from coming out?

[blackpoolhibs]

At great risk of repeating myself, since apparently no one cares, what is it stopping gay footballers from coming out?

They are obviously frightened of the reaction, yet unless they do come out how can things change? :dunno:

[Andy74]

They are obviously frightened of the reaction, yet unless they do come out how can things change? :dunno:

Strange to say but it seems the well meaning supportive types are making more of an issue of this than anyone else.

Perhaps if enough people are telling them its an issue the they believe it?

I don't think there's any more of an issue in football than anywhere else.

[Pretty Boy]

Strange to say but it seems the well meaning supportive types are making more of an issue of this than anyone else.

Perhaps if enough people are telling them its an issue the they believe it?

I don't think there's any more of an issue in football than anywhere else.

So several thousand people chanting that an opposing team is gay and several thousand responding that a player on the other team is gay wouldn't cast some doubt in a gay players mind that his sexuality might just be seen as a problem?

[nonshinyfinish]

They are obviously frightened of the reaction, yet unless they do come out how can things change? :dunno:

To me, the obvious and glib answer to that is that the problematic minority (and I really have to believe that it is a minority) could stop being bigoted dicks.

The (slightly) more nuanced answer is that it will probably require a number of players to do just that, but as I've said above, I wouldn't judge anyone for not wanting to be the first one over the top. And in my opinion campaigns like this, while they obviously won't solve the problem, are a tiny piece of the puzzle in creating the conditions where maybe high-profile gay footballers will feel that they can come out.

[Killiehibbie]

Agreed, I wouldn't have gone for the s******worthy slogan - the cynic in me thinks that PaddyPower are behind (fnarr :rolleyes:) that, since they appear willing to do pretty much anything for free publicity.

Re: the second point, one imagines that that intention is not that boot laces will change folks' views, but that the associated media attention will get folk talking about it (as seems fairly successful based on the isolated evidence of this thread). Paddy power should try laying a decent bet that would be headline news for them.

[blackpoolhibs]

Strange to say but it seems the well meaning supportive types are making more of an issue of this than anyone else.

Perhaps if enough people are telling them its an issue the they believe it?

I don't think there's any more of an issue in football than anywhere else.

Its obviously an issue with the fans, as i'm pretty sure if someone came out he'd get stick from the fans, i mean imagine if Paul Hartley really was gay, he'd have been slaughtered. :greengrin

Although i do agree it seems to be the straight folk who are making much more of an issue about this than anyone who is gay?

[nonshinyfinish]

Its obviously an issue with the fans, as i'm pretty sure if someone came out he'd get stick from the fans, i mean imagine if Paul Hartley really was gay, he'd have been slaughtered. :greengrin

Although i do agree it seems to be the straight folk who are making much more of an issue about this than anyone who is gay?

How do you know the folk 'making an issue about it' aren't gay?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

How do you know the folk 'making an issue about it' aren't gay?

Black laces in their shoes?

[Andy74]

Its obviously an issue with the fans, as i'm pretty sure if someone came out he'd get stick from the fans, i mean imagine if Paul Hartley really was gay, he'd have been slaughtered. :greengrin

Although i do agree it seems to be the straight folk who are making much more of an issue about this than anyone who is gay?

I think it's a bit like the Skacel song. If he was a real refugee that song would never be sung.

I think most of the gay banter is schoolboy stuff and not aimed at gay people at all but not sure anyone coming out would get that much stick.

[nonshinyfinish]

Black laces in their shoes?

Racist. :agree:

[blackpoolhibs]

How do you know the folk 'making an issue about it' aren't gay?

I was meaning on here, this message board. Are you gay, is anyone gay who's contributed to this thread? :dunno:

[nonshinyfinish]

I think it's a bit like the Skacel song. If he was a real refugee that song would never be sung.

I think most of the gay banter is schoolboy stuff and not aimed at gay people at all bum not sure anyone coming out would get that much stick.

Do you really believe that? Do you really think folk were going, 'well since he's from the Czech Republic, and as an EU citizen is exercising his freedom to work in any EU country, this song is clearly ironic and just a laugh'?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Racist. :agree:

Rumbled at last!

[blackpoolhibs]

I think it's a bit like the Skacel song. If he was a real refugee that song would never be sung.

I think most of the gay banter is schoolboy stuff and not aimed at gay people at all bum not sure anyone coming out would get that much stick.

Unfortunate typo Andy? :greengrin

[I'm_cabbaged]

I think it's a bit like the Skacel song. If he was a real refugee that song would never be sung.

I think most of the gay banter is schoolboy stuff and not aimed at gay people at all bum not sure anyone coming out would get that much stick.

Can't put it in bold BUT that was a bit of a slip, something else on your mind? :)

Edit, too late.

[Killiehibbie]

I was meaning on here, this message board. Are you gay, is anyone gay who's contributed to this thread? :dunno:At least one.

[blackpoolhibs]

Black laces in their shoes?


Its a bit of an agadoo about nothing if you ask me?

[nonshinyfinish]

I was meaning on here, this message board. Are you gay, is anyone gay who's contributed to this thread? :dunno:

I'm not gay, no idea about anyone else on the thread. Just seems like a big assumption to make.

I don't think you should have to be gay to want gay folk to be able to live their lives like anyone else, any more than you had to black to support the Civil Rights movement, have to be female to support gender equality, etc.

[blackpoolhibs]

At least one.

So i was right.

[Andy74]

Unfortunate typo Andy? :greengrin

Sshh!

[Andy74]

Do you really believe that? Do you really think folk were going, 'well since he's from the Czech Republic, and as an EU citizen is exercising his freedom to work in any EU country, this song is clearly ironic and just a laugh'?

I do yes, that song was nothing to do with suggesting he was an actual refugee.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm not gay, no idea about anyone else on the thread. Just seems like a big assumption to make.

I don't think you should have to be gay to want gay folk to be able to live their lives like anyone else, any more than you had to black to support the Civil Rights movement, have to be female to support gender equality, etc.

I agree, in fact i don't think anyone has disagreed?

Football seems to have been hijacked over the last few seasons, with minutes applause for anyone who had 5 minutes of fame, and respect, racism, there have probably been others too that i can't remember and now this.

I'm a little fed up about how i am supposed to think these days at the football, it's become a vehicle to highlight all sorts of societies problems?

I know whats right and wrong, and dont need it rammed down my throat.

[nonshinyfinish]

I do yes, that song was nothing to do with suggesting he was an actual refugee.

I do take your point that most 'gay' related chants are primary school level humour and probably not malicious. What bothers me, though, is that constant reinforcement of gay = bad. That's something that kids get throughout school (or at least they did when I was there, and I've no reason to believe it's changed much in 10 years), and while each song or whatever seems like a harmless joke in isolation, when it's all added together it is, IMO, a contributing factor to broader intolerance.

I must say though, I'm pretty encouraged by the debate on this thread - most folk being pretty reasonable regardless of their viewpoint.

[Andy74]

I agree, in fact i don't think anyone has disagreed?

Football seems to have been hijacked over the last few seasons, with minutes applause for anyone who had 5 minutes of fame, and respect, racism, there have probably been others too that i can't remember and now this.

I'm a little fed up about how i am supposed to think these days at the football, it's become a vehicle to highlight all sorts of societies problems?

I know whats right and wrong, and dont need it rammed down my throat.

Sure you don't.

[Pretty Boy]

I agree, in fact i don't think anyone has disagreed?

Football seems to have been hijacked over the last few seasons, with minutes applause for anyone who had 5 minutes of fame, and respect, racism, there have probably been others too that i can't remember and now this.

I'm a little fed up about how i am supposed to think these days at the football, it's become a vehicle to highlight all sorts of societies problems?

I know whats right and wrong, and dont need it rammed down my throat.

I think you have a point.

However with football, probably society in general, the majority of people now do know what is and isn't acceptable but a vocal minority seem determined to be heard.

Think Chelsea fans singing about Hitler at White Hart Lane, The Rangers fans, Milwall fans, even the fud in our support who allegedly sang 'if you hate the ****ing Muslims' after the SC Final.

Using one of the most popular, talked about and visible passtimes in the country as a vehicle for social good can only be a positive thing imo.

[nonshinyfinish]

Although i do agree it seems to be the straight folk who are making much more of an issue about this than anyone who is gay?


I'm not gay, no idea about anyone else on the thread. Just seems like a big assumption to make.

I don't think you should have to be gay to want gay folk to be able to live their lives like anyone else, any more than you had to black to support the Civil Rights movement, have to be female to support gender equality, etc.


I agree, in fact i don't think anyone has disagreed?

My interpretation of your quote at the top doesn't seem like such a leap, i.e., that it's only a legitimate issue for discussion if the 'victims' themselves raise it. It seems that I have misinterpreted it though, so I'd be delighted for you to clarify what you meant.

[blackpoolhibs]

My interpretation of your quote at the top doesn't seem like such a leap, i.e., that it's only a legitimate issue for discussion if the 'victims' themselves raise it. It seems that I have misinterpreted it though, so I'd be delighted for you to clarify what you meant.

What i'm trying to say is, we now have discussions on a football message board about gay footballers. MOST folk dont give a toss, yet here we have football taking up the cause. Every few months we have a new cause we are supposed to get behind, and to be honest i'm a bit fed up with it all.

I have nothing against gays, or any other minority we have to speak up for in society, i'm just fed up that football has seemingly been hijacked when i believe 99% of football fans would be supportive of anyone who came out.

Yet saying that, they would still get stick during the games because fans being fans would try and get under their skin and think they were putting him off his game.

As i said earlier, gay folk need to come out when they are ready, not because football wants them.

[nonshinyfinish]

What i'm trying to say is, we now have discussions on a football message board about gay footballers. MOST folk dont give a toss, yet here we have football taking up the cause. Every few months we have a new cause we are supposed to get behind, and to be honest i'm a bit fed up with it all.

I have nothing against gays, or any other minority we have to speak up for in society, i'm just fed up that football has seemingly been hijacked when i believe 99% of football fans would be supportive of anyone who came out.

Yet saying that, they would still get stick during the games because fans being fans would try and get under their skin and think they were putting him off his game.

As i said earlier, gay folk need to come out when they are ready, not because football wants them.

I do see what you're saying, and I'm no great fan of complicating sport with non-sporting problems, but I think that in this case football is lagging behind society rather than merely reflecting it.

And I have to say that although I agree that a majority of football fans would be supportive of a gay player, I think your 99% figure is a touch optimistic.

[Sir David Gray]

I'm not a fan of clubs embracing these sorts of initiatives and then basically forcing their players to wear t-shirts or shoelaces or whatever. If that person is doing it because they have to and not because they want to then it totally defeats the whole point of the initiative, in my opinion and I think you can see that with the anti-racism t-shirts that are worn regularly before games, in relation to the high profile cases in England over the past couple of years.

Forcing people to think or act in a particular way is never going to be a success and quite frankly, when I'm at a football match, the only thing I care about is Hibs getting three points. I don't care if we have black players, Muslim players or homosexual players. As long as we win, I'm going to go home happy.

I have my own views and beliefs on various subjects but I don't think a football match is the correct environment in which to bring those up, regardless of what your opinion is.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm not a fan of clubs embracing these sorts of initiatives and then basically forcing their players to wear t-shirts or shoelaces or whatever. If that person is doing it because they have to and not because they want to then it totally defeats the whole point of the initiative, in my opinion and I think you can see that with the anti-racism t-shirts that are worn regularly before games, in relation to the high profile cases in England over the past couple of years.

Forcing people to think or act in a particular way is never going to be a success and quite frankly, when I'm at a football match, the only thing I care about is Hibs getting three points. I don't care if we have black players, Muslim players or homosexual players. As long as we win, I'm going to go home happy.

I have my own views and beliefs on various subjects but I don't think a football match is the correct environment in which to bring those up, regardless of what your opinion is.

If i could have wrote this i would. :top marks

[JennaFletcher]

I'm not a fan of clubs embracing these sorts of initiatives and then basically forcing their players to wear t-shirts or shoelaces or whatever. If that person is doing it because they have to and not because they want to then it totally defeats the whole point of the initiative, in my opinion and I think you can see that with the anti-racism t-shirts that are worn regularly before games, in relation to the high profile cases in England over the past couple of years.

Forcing people to think or act in a particular way is never going to be a success and quite frankly, when I'm at a football match, the only thing I care about is Hibs getting three points. I don't care if we have black players, Muslim players or homosexual players. As long as we win, I'm going to go home happy.

I have my own views and beliefs on various subjects but I don't think a football match is the correct environment in which to bring those up, regardless of what your opinion is.

I seem to have missed the debate on here!

I believe people - whether they are footballers, doctors, plumbers... - perform better when they are a) happy and b) can be themselves. As the Paddy Power billboard says "50,000 footballers and not one of them is gay. What are the odds on that?". There is something quite clearly embedded in football culture that is preventing gay footballers from being honest and open about who they are. That's not right. The rainbow laces are a great way of showing support. It shows others that they are supportive. Clubs and footballers accross the country will take part and I'll be embarrassed if Hibs don't. Footballers are role models (whether they like it or not) and should take a stance against issues such as racism and homophobia especially since we can still hear remarks on the terraces.

[Peevemor]

I seem to have missed the debate on here!

I believe people - whether they are footballers, doctors, plumbers... - perform better when they are a) happy and b) can be themselves. As the Paddy Power billboard says "50,000 footballers and not one of them is gay. What are the odds on that?". There is something quite clearly embedded in football culture that is preventing gay footballers from being honest and open about who they are. That's not right. The rainbow laces are a great way of showing support. It shows others that they are supportive. Clubs and footballers accross the country will take part and I'll be embarrassed if Hibs don't. Footballers are role models (whether they like it or not) and should take a stance against issues such as racism and homophobia especially since we can still hear remarks on the terraces.

No number of initiatives will change that. and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

[Beefster]

I have my own views and beliefs on various subjects but I don't think a football match is the correct environment in which to bring those up, regardless of what your opinion is.

What is the correct environment in which to bring these subjects up?

These campaigns are as much about forming/changing attitudes in children than trying to stop adults being bigoted. If kids see their heroes basically say that there should be no stigma attached to being gay/black/whatever and it stops an extra 5% growing up bigoted then it's worth it. Things like this are never going to win against parent(s) who drum nonsense about poofs/pakis etc into their kids but I think the long-term impact of campaigns like this on some kids is often underestimated.

[marinello59]

No number of initiatives will change that. and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

When was the last time you heard an openly racist remark made inside a ground. Or a mass racist chant? They are few and far between these days. Peoples behaviour does change.

[nonshinyfinish]

I'm not a fan of clubs embracing these sorts of initiatives and then basically forcing their players to wear t-shirts or shoelaces or whatever. If that person is doing it because they have to and not because they want to then it totally defeats the whole point of the initiative, in my opinion and I think you can see that with the anti-racism t-shirts that are worn regularly before games, in relation to the high profile cases in England over the past couple of years.

Forcing people to think or act in a particular way is never going to be a success and quite frankly, when I'm at a football match, the only thing I care about is Hibs getting three points. I don't care if we have black players, Muslim players or homosexual players. As long as we win, I'm going to go home happy.

I have my own views and beliefs on various subjects but I don't think a football match is the correct environment in which to bring those up, regardless of what your opinion is.

Is there any suggestion that Hibs (or other clubs) will force players to take part?

I agree that it should be down to individuals to decide for themselves, if you make it compulsory then it becomes meaningless.

[Brightside]

Is there any suggestion that Hibs (or other clubs) will force players to take part?

I agree that it should be down to individuals to decide for themselves, if you make it compulsory then it becomes meaningless.

I'd like to think that all players will do it without any force.. Its a statement, and its small step to removing the fear that some people still have in being themselves. If a Hearts player came out as Gay I guarantee there would be plenty chanting from some Hibs fans. The reason for that is that some still think its OK to be homophobic, and some are still thick, brainless morons. This is a football fan problem...its not seen as an issue in any other sport.

[ronaldo7]

My heart goes out to the lads of the boot room. Think of all those boots having to be re-laced. I wonder if they'll get a wee lift in their wages.

[stoneyburn hibs]

I think if we could get Petrie to come out at half time wearing a green tutu and his RBGF laces, to the tune of seven nation army and put on a pink pyro display on the centre spot whilst holding up an I Love Hibs banner, would appease quite a number of supporters.

[ChooseLife]

I know whats right and wrong, and dont need it rammed down my throat.

Hehehe

[Brightside]

I think if we could get Petrie to come out at half time wearing a green tutu and his RBGF laces, to the tune of seven nation army and put on a pink pyro display on the centre spot whilst holding up an I Love Hibs banner, would appease quite a number of supporters.

Or maybe get him to black up like the Black n White minstrals to show support for the Kick out Racism campaign? :rolleyes:

[stoneyburn hibs]

Or maybe get him to black up like the Black n White minstrals to show support for the Kick out Racism campaign? :rolleyes:

Good shout, maybe do it during separate games though to avoid confusion.

[Lester B]

I seem to have missed the debate on here!

I believe people - whether they are footballers, doctors, plumbers... - perform better when they are a) happy and b) can be themselves. As the Paddy Power billboard says "50,000 footballers and not one of them is gay. What are the odds on that?". There is something quite clearly embedded in football culture that is preventing gay footballers from being honest and open about who they are. That's not right. The rainbow laces are a great way of showing support. It shows others that they are supportive. Clubs and footballers accross the country will take part and I'll be embarrassed if Hibs don't. Footballers are role models (whether they like it or not) and should take a stance against issues such as racism and homophobia especially since we can still hear remarks on the terraces.

Spot on. No one is saying that the laces will make a massive change in attitudes. It's symbolic but never underestimate the power of symbolism. As for some of the comments on here well words fail me.

[DaveF]

but I think that in this case football is lagging behind society

Is it lagging behind or is it simply in the spotlight because of it's popularity and it's being used a vehicle to front a stonewall campaign?

I can't recall many Rugby (Gareth Thomas) or Cricket (Stephen Davies) people coming out. Has the laces campaign been extended to those sports or are they classed as having more intellect as us football morons?

[green.and.white]

For me, this has put every football club in a very awkward position, it's a bit ramming it doon out throats if you ask me. I have nothing against homosexuality, I don't give a hoot who you fancy just to make that clear. If players/clubs don't participate, then they are seen to be anti-gay, so clubs really have no choice thanks to the charity sending the laces out, if clubs had taken the opportunity to do it themselves rather than being sent them out without a choice, it would have been better. They've put everyone in a position of no choice.

[KWJ]

I think it's a bit like the Skacel song. If he was a real refugee that song would never be sung.

I think most of the gay banter is schoolboy stuff and not aimed at gay people at all but not sure anyone coming out would get that much stick.Y

You're right, in the playgrounds today 'gay' is a way one kid would slag another, it's a derogative term like many were before. Should a star name footballer come out in support of homosexual footballers and wear the rainbow laces then a kid may think against using it in such a way or when called it, not give a **** and say so.

[KWJ]

For me, this has put every football club in a very awkward position, it's a bit ramming it doon out throats if you ask me. I have nothing against homosexuality, I don't give a hoot who you fancy just to make that clear. If players/clubs don't participate, then they are seen to be anti-gay, so clubs really have no choice thanks to the charity sending the laces out, if clubs had taken the opportunity to do it themselves rather than being sent them out without a choice, it would have been better. They've put everyone in a position of no choice.

Pish.

In terms of statements being made at football games this is the one that players seem to have complete choice in. I'm not a Joey Barton fan but for him to embrace and lead the way is a huge step but I guarantee you there will be less supporting this in Britain than the 'Keep Racism out of Football' campaigns.

[KWJ]

When was the last time you heard an openly racist remark made inside a ground. Or a mass racist chant? They are few and far between these days. Peoples behaviour does change.

My last away match in Scotland, guy in front of me with a kid called Kujabi a 'useless black ****'. I told him he shouldn't say that, he gave me a look and didn't say it again. He wasn't on much longer but still...

[blackpoolhibs]

How long before we have players wearing a wristband for a cause like this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-24102581

Where does this stop?:confused:

[Dunderhall]

How long before we have players wearing a wristband for a cause like this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-24102581

Where does this stop?:confused:

Not sure, but the Fulham mascot has asked for danger money.

[marinello59]

Is it lagging behind or is it simply in the spotlight because of it's popularity and it's being used a vehicle to front a stonewall campaign?

I can't recall many Rugby (Gareth Thomas) or Cricket (Stephen Davies) people coming out. Has the laces campaign been extended to those sports or are they classed as having more intellect as us football morons?

The answer is yes, footballs popularity is being used to front a stonewall campaign. I can't say I agree with everything Stonewall comes out with but as long as this is a voluntary scheme I see no harm it
I think the authorities do see us as more moronic in some ways, you only have to look at the way football 'hooligans' are policed compared to 'boisterous' rugby fans. I don't think that is an issue here though. Are homophobic chants the norm in other sports? I really don't know but it would do no harm if all sportsman who wanted too wore rainbow laces.

[Lester B]

How long before we have players wearing a wristband for a cause like this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-24102581

Where does this stop?:confused:

Where does it stop? Two gay men were beaten up in Edinburgh city centre on Saturday night. That should stop. Anything which seeks to prevent this mindless hatred even in a small way should be supported

And you are now equating gay people with badgers. Thanks for that. Very constructive. Very intelligent.

[blackpoolhibs]

Where does it stop? Two gay men were beaten up in Edinburgh city centre on Saturday night. That should stop. Anything which seeks to prevent this mindless hatred even in a small way should be supported

And you are now equating gay people with badgers. Thanks for that. Very constructive. Very intelligent.

Was it football related this assault? :confused: I also like badgers.

[ronaldo7]

How long before we have players wearing a wristband for a cause like this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-24102581

Where does this stop?:confused:

I prefer these

http://scottishwildbeavers.org/about-tay-beavers/briefing-paper-3/

[Lester B]

Was it football related this assault? :confused: I also like badgers.

No it happened in the street. Part of society. Just like football isn't seperate from society.

Are you going to tell me now that 'some of my friends are badgers and they agree with me?'

[blackpoolhibs]

I prefer these

http://scottishwildbeavers.org/about-tay-beavers/briefing-paper-3/

They don't count unless you can give clear evidence some of them have been beaten up, although i cant quite see the football link?

Now if they are in danger in anyway, i'd be willing to wear a headband at the football for the cause.

[Killiehibbie]

Where does it stop? Two gay men were beaten up in Edinburgh city centre on Saturday night. That should stop. Anything which seeks to prevent this mindless hatred even in a small way should be supported

And you are now equating gay people with badgers. Thanks for that. Very constructive. Very intelligent.I would bet a lot more non gay men were beaten up on Saturday night.

[Treadstone]

I would bet a lot more non gay men were beaten up on Saturday night.

For being straight ?

[blackpoolhibs]

No it happened in the street. Part of society. Just like football isn't seperate from society.

Are you going to tell me now that 'some of my friends are badgers and they agree with me?'

Some of my best memories are watching badgers in the wild, and the way they have been butchered in my opinion is criminal.

I'd love to see the players all wear black and white headbands for this cause, badgers are part of society surely?

[Killiehibbie]

For being straight ?For it being Saturday night and the bams out looking for victims.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I prefer these

http://scottishwildbeavers.org/about-tay-beavers/briefing-paper-3/

Im a beaver man too, seem to be an endangered species wherever I happen to find myself unfortunately.

[blackpoolhibs]

Im a beaver man too, seem to be an endangered species wherever I happen to find myself unfortunately.


Just spat my coffee over my screen. :wink: :greengrin

[basehibby]

How long before we have players wearing a wristband for a cause like this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-24102581

Where does this stop?:confused:

Erm, last time I looked there weren't any badgers playing in the SPFL - although I stand to be corrected.

[blackpoolhibs]

Erm, last time I looked there weren't any badgers playing in the SPFL - although I stand to be corrected.

Are there any gays playing in the spfl? :confused:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Just spat my coffee over my screen. :wink: :greengrin

Tippex will cover that up, worked on my keyboard, though it does look like a painters tranny (is that allowed?).

[blackpoolhibs]

Tippex will cover that up, worked on my keyboard, though it does look like a painters tranny (is that allowed?).


Naw you didnae. :devil:

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Naw you didnae. :devil:

Wasnae funny enough to engulf the screen, just a minor guffaw over the keys! ;-)

[DaveF]

The answer is yes, footballs popularity is being used to front a stonewall campaign. I can't say I agree with everything Stonewall comes out with but as long as this is a voluntary scheme I see no harm it
I think the authorities do see us as more moronic in some ways, you only have to look at the way football 'hooligans' are policed compared to 'boisterous' rugby fans. I don't think that is an issue here though. Are homophobic chants the norm in other sports? I really don't know but it would do no harm if all sportsman who wanted too wore rainbow laces.

I wouldn't say they are the norm at football games. It's sporadic - at most.

Good job all modern players are fit young things or we'll be getting lifted for singing "you fat *******" soon :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

So anyone know if the club are promoting it or not?

(Wearing rainbow laces, not gayness)

[soupy]

Im a beaver man too, seem to be an endangered species wherever I happen to find myself unfortunately.

Haha :-)

[hibby rae]

Perhaps if there were any young supporters worried about coming out having their heroes show a gesture of support might help them?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Quite right, my younger brother only comes out for a pint every 6 months, this could help him spend more time in the pub.

[Hibrandenburg]

Sounds like its the footballers that are being judgemental about the average football fan if they think we're all Neanderthal (sp?) homophobes

I don't think many folk would care and if they got a bit stick they'd do well just to laugh it off.

I think you're right, it is the footballers who probably give gay colleagues a hard time. How ever the footballers from tomorrow are standing on the terraces today and that's where the example needs to be set.

Personally I don't care who footballers are banging it in so long as they're banging them in for us.

[QMU-1875]

To even debate whether this is an acceptable stunt to be a part of is ridiculous and smacks of people trying to be controversial. Their is a clear issue with footballers "coming out" as otherwise their would be no debate on this issue! This is more than just some stunt by stonewall but an opportunity for society to look at our sport in a different light! The whole football community uniting and showing that we have moved on from the dark ages of homophobic/ racial chanting and onward to a more accepting and unified age; this is an opportunity not "some stunt". Hope hibs take part in it and hope every other club does also.

[blackpoolhibs]

To even debate whether this is an acceptable stunt to be a part of is ridiculous and smacks of people trying to be controversial. Their is a clear issue with footballers "coming out" as otherwise their would be no debate on this issue! This is more than just some stunt by stonewall but an opportunity for society to look at our sport in a different light! The whole football community uniting and showing that we have moved on from the dark ages of homophobic/ racial chanting and onward to a more accepting and unified age; this is an opportunity not "some stunt". Hope hibs take part in it and hope every other club does also.

Why football, why not boxing or rugby, why sport in general? Why not just promote good behaviour, or common decency Do we have to have a new initiative for every minority, because as i jokingly said earlier, we could be having them for all sorts of things in the future like badger culling? :confused:

[Hibrandenburg]

Why football, why not boxing or rugby, why sport in general? Why not just promote good behaviour, or common decency Do we have to have a new initiative for every minority, because as i jokingly said earlier, we could be having them for all sorts of things in the future like badger culling? :confused:


Anyone for pink smoke bombs?

[blackpoolhibs]

Anyone for pink smoke bombs?


Maybe at the boxing, could be good seeing a couple going at it hammer and tongs with a little smoke round the ring?

[hibby rae]

Quite right, my younger brother only comes out for a pint every 6 months, this could help him spend more time in the pub.



So he can get a round or around?

[Pedantic_Hibee]

My last away match in Scotland, guy in front of me with a kid called Kujabi a 'useless black ****'. I told him he shouldn't say that, he gave me a look and didn't say it again. He wasn't on much longer but still...

Why would any Hibs supporting parent call their kid Kujabi?

[hibby rae]

Why would any Hibs supporting parent call their kid Kujabi?

I was planning on naming my children Amadou and Zbigniew.

[QMU-1875]

Why football, why not boxing or rugby, why sport in general? Why not just promote good behaviour, or common decency Do we have to have a new initiative for every minority, because as i jokingly said earlier, we could be having them for all sorts of things in the future like badger culling? :confused:

You love a moan! This is a one off opportunity to support a great campaign! Do you remember the vitriol surrounding the rumours about Sol Campbell's alleged homosexuality? Attitudes need to change in football. Also common sense can be applied for other initiatives, there is an issue in football surrounding homosexuality their is not an issue surrounding badgers in football to use your example.

[blackpoolhibs]

I was planning on naming my children Amadou and Zbigniew.

Just make sure the guy delivering the baby is not called Yves.

[NOLA]

all the hibees are gay :wink: so it should be supported well down ER way.

[hibby rae]

Just make sure the guy delivering the baby is not called Yves.


:pray:

[jodjam]

Could the lad who has just came on at old Trafford , Lars Bender, front up the campaign in the bundesliga ;)

[sleeping giant]

Why would any Hibs supporting parent call their kid Kujabi?

:not worth

[nonshinyfinish]

Why would any Hibs supporting parent call their kid Kujabi?

My first-born, girl or boy, will be called Zambernardi. Still torn between Tortolano and Sar-Temsoury for the middle name.

[Jonnyboy]

Lot of knickers getting twisted here methinks.

The laces thing is voluntary. It's part of an awareness campaign, that's all

[nonshinyfinish]

Lot of knickers getting twisted here methinks.

The laces thing is voluntary. It's part of an awareness campaign, that's all

Sometimes you need an elder statesman to cut through all the BS.

:top marks

[Bishop Hibee]

Great.

I'm looking forward to all SPFL players wearing a small crucifix on their strip the week after to protest against the shocking fact that although Roman Catholics account for only 16% of Scotland's population, they account for almost 60% of the victims of sectarian hate crime.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0NRqCqye5F9NGUyMmQ3ZjktM2UyOS00NWYxLTljMDYtZjYxY mM0NmZhYzY4/edit?pli=1

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

So he can get a round or around?

Someone could spin him I suppose.

[Sir David Gray]

What is the correct environment in which to bring these subjects up?

These campaigns are as much about forming/changing attitudes in children than trying to stop adults being bigoted. If kids see their heroes basically say that there should be no stigma attached to being gay/black/whatever and it stops an extra 5% growing up bigoted then it's worth it. Things like this are never going to win against parent(s) who drum nonsense about poofs/pakis etc into their kids but I think the long-term impact of campaigns like this on some kids is often underestimated.

I just think that personal acts in support of a particular cause, and done by someone because they want to do something and not because they feel they have to do it, are far more powerful than these mass campaigns.

When you're getting guys like John Terry and Luis Suarez, who are idols for young people, wearing anti-racism t-shirts one week and then a few weeks later, being embroiled in racism controversies against fellow professionals and receiving paltry bans as a result, then I think it makes a mockery of the whole thing and renders it completely meaningless. Young people are going to look at that and see right through it.

I don't see that it achieves anything unless you're getting people doing something that they actually want to do.


Is there any suggestion that Hibs (or other clubs) will force players to take part?

I agree that it should be down to individuals to decide for themselves, if you make it compulsory then it becomes meaningless.

Do you honestly think that if a club decides to support a cause such as this, that there will be a player at that club who will decide not to take part, despite what they may think from a personal viewpoint?

It would put them in an extremely difficult situation if they did and they would be singled out for a lot of unwanted attention by the media and various other groups. It just wouldn't be worth the hassle for them.

I just believe that these mass campaigns are largely meaningless and it's more about the football club ticking one of their boxes with regards to their social responsibility etc than it is about football players coming together to genuinely try and change society's ills.

[Leishy1995]

Are there any gays playing in the spfl? :confused:

I'm gonna assume yes? Maybe too scared to come out without fear off acceptance in this community?

[nonshinyfinish]

Do you honestly think that if a club decides to support a cause such as this, that there will be a player at that club who will decide not to take part, despite what they may think from a personal viewpoint?

It would put them in an extremely difficult situation if they did and they would be singled out for a lot of unwanted attention by the media and various other groups. It just wouldn't be worth the hassle for them.

I just believe that these mass campaigns are largely meaningless and it's more about the football club ticking one of their boxes with regards to their social responsibility etc than it is about football players coming together to genuinely try and change society's ills.

Again, what are you basing this on?

So maybe Hibs get sent a load of rainbow laces, and they say 'lads, everybody has to wear these next weekend.' That might, as you say, put players in a difficult position. But then again, maybe Hibs get sent a load of rainbow laces and say, 'lads, we've been sent these laces 'cause of this campaign. If you want to wear them then here they are.'

Which is closer to reality? I don't know, and neither do you. So why the certainties about what the club is doing? Why the hyperbole about players being forced to do things?

[Peevemor]

When was the last time you heard an openly racist remark made inside a ground. Or a mass racist chant? They are few and far between these days. Peoples behaviour does change.

My post wasn't clear, but I was referring to "homophobic" remarks.

I have a lot of gay friends (most of whom are part of a cultural group of which I'm a member) and I'll comment and joke about their sexuality, but no more than they do themselves. I also have black friends, but my references to their skin colour are comparitively rare.

At a football match if, for example, a player is rolling about in feigned agony after a nothing challenge, you'll never stop the "get up ya big poof" sort of comments and they'll never provoke the same reaction from neighbouring fans that racist remarks may do.

I'm not saying that's right but it's the way things are and, in my opinion, any future change will be minimal.

However, I'm all for promoting the message that it's OK to be gay.

[ballengeich]

Great.

I'm looking forward to all SPFL players wearing a small crucifix on their strip the week after to protest against the shocking fact that although Roman Catholics account for only 16% of Scotland's population, they account for almost 60% of the victims of sectarian hate crime.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0NRqCqye5F9NGUyMmQ3ZjktM2UyOS00NWYxLTljMDYtZjYxY mM0NmZhYzY4/edit?pli=1

As a starting point I want to state that I detest all forms of sectarian hate. I am not a member of any religious group.

However, I think that your post shows a lack of understanding of statistics. In section 3.9 of the report you link to it shows that 36.5% of sectarian crimes are against protestants. That suggests to me that the 16% of the Scottish population who are Catholic are comitting more than twice the percentage of hate crimes that you would expect from their number in the population.

I realise that the presence of other minorities makes the mathematical analysis more complex, but I don't think that my basic analysis is invalid. All sectarian crimes are wrong, but misuse of statistics to score points for a particular group in our nation offends me too.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

FH is bang on the money, dictating to people instead of letting people have an opinion is never going to work. However offended folk become by certain opinions others have.

[JennaFletcher]

FH is bang on the money, dictating to people instead of letting people have an opinion is never going to work. However offended folk become by certain opinions others have.

FH and Hutchy Hibby - the campaign does not dictate, it's optional for those in support who want to take part to take part! :aok: [but there would be an outcry if a few players refused to take part in anti-racism campaign!]

[CropleyWasGod]

Interested to hear all the shades of opinion.

IMO, the campaign has already been a success. It has provoked a debate on here, and probably elsewhere. Awareness-raising is always a good thing.

[Bishop Hibee]

As a starting point I want to state that I detest all forms of sectarian hate. I am not a member of any religious group.

However, I think that your post shows a lack of understanding of statistics. In section 3.9 of the report you link to it shows that 36.5% of sectarian crimes are against protestants. That suggests to me that the 16% of the Scottish population who are Catholic are comitting more than twice the percentage of hate crimes that you would expect from their number in the population.

I realise that the presence of other minorities makes the mathematical analysis more complex, but I don't think that my basic analysis is invalid. All sectarian crimes are wrong, but misuse of statistics to score points for a particular group in our nation offends me too.

I was stirring the pot somewhat. I do however believe that if we have an anti-homophobia day in Scottish football there should be an anti-sectarian one. Arguably a bigger football related problem than homophobia.

[Allant1981]

Its pretty sad that in this day and age we have to resort to these kinds of things,i dont care if someone is gay or not, what someone does in their private life is up to them and its pathetic that they get slaughtered for it.

[Keith_M]

So are we still allowed to hate Jimmy Hill and call him a poof?


:dunno:




It's Political correctness gone mad, Ah tell ye. Ahm away tae write a letter tae the Daily Mail......

[500miles]

So are we still allowed to hate Jimmy Hill and call him a poof?


:dunno:




It's Political correctness gone mad, Ah tell ye. Ahm away tae write a letter tae the Daily Mail......

Yes, as long as you hate him for being Jimmy Hill, not his sexuality.

[dp00]

Not sure about hibs players but noticed Sparky is wearing them

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

[hibby rae]

Any word if Hibs are going to do it? According the BBC Man U aren't but Everton are.

[JennaFletcher]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00r3zl7

They're discussing it on call kaye now. Apparently Stenhouse Muir are only ones saying whole team will do it! SPFL isn't backing it... poor show if true.

Stephen Craigan was on speaking about the campaign - said that there's not really any homophobic chanting these days!!! wtf.

[basehibby]

I was meaning on here, this message board. Are you gay, is anyone gay who's contributed to this thread? :dunno:

I am very jolly because it's Friday and I just had a sausage roll

[marinello59]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00r3zl7

They're discussing it on call kaye now. Apparently Stenhouse Muir are only ones saying whole team will do it! SPFL isn't backing it... poor show if true.
Stephen Craigan was on speaking about the campaign - said that there's not really any homophobic chanting these days!!! wtf.

Maybe not. If the clubs are leaving it up to the individual players then surely it will have more impact seeing them making a personal statement?

[matty_f]

My post wasn't clear, but I was referring to "homophobic" remarks.

I have a lot of gay friends (most of whom are part of a cultural group of which I'm a member) and I'll comment and joke about their sexuality, but no more than they do themselves. I also have black friends, but my references to their skin colour are comparitively rare.

At a football match if, for example, a player is rolling about in feigned agony after a nothing challenge, you'll never stop the "get up ya big poof" sort of comments and they'll never provoke the same reaction from neighbouring fans that racist remarks may do.

I'm not saying that's right but it's the way things are and, in my opinion, any future change will be minimal.

However, I'm all for promoting the message that it's OK to be gay.

The meaning of words change over time. Ricky Gervais makes a good point about that on his 'Science' stand up show. He uses the word 'mong' as an example of a word that was initially offensive and aimed at people with mental disabilities but is now a kind of generic term for an idiot. You will still have people who associate the word with the original context but there is a growing acceptance that it means something else now. He also uses the 'c' word to illustrate the point. It used to be the most offensive word, pretty much, but is now commonly used as term of endearment I.e. he's a good c***.

Poof and gay are words that are heading the same way, imho. I heard a kid the other day describing something as 'gay' and I didn't think he was being homophobic and he certainly didn't used the word in a hateful way. Same forthe exexample you use about 'poof'. A long time ago that would have been derogatory against gays, but I think the word has a different meaning now.

[DaveF]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00r3zl7

They're discussing it on call kaye now. Apparently Stenhouse Muir are only ones saying whole team will do it! SPFL isn't backing it... poor show if true.

Stephen Craigan was on speaking about the campaign - said that there's not really any homophobic chanting these days!!!

He's right though. The only chant I can think of in recent history is the Yams hilarious 'hibees are gay' one.

Individual shouts may still go on, but I'd imagine they too are diminishing. I've certainly shouted at opposition players in my yoof to 'get up ya poof' when they have been lying in mock agony. I wouldn't have been directing it to him personally as an insult to his sexual orientation - more to vent frustration and work off my hangover. I suppose that says more about me as a council nyaff than anything else :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Can I still affectionately greet my German & Austrian colleagues at work (e.g. my boss Harald) with the phrase, "how's it gaun Harald, ya big woofta"?


:dunno:


They've got no idea what it means but they seem to find it amusing.

[hibby rae]

Can I still affectionately greet my German & Austrian colleagues at work (e.g. my boss Harald) with the phrase, "how's it gaun Harald, ya big woofta"?


:dunno:


They've got no idea what it means but they seem to find it amusing.

Yes but apparently you're not to mention ze war!

[Owain_1987]

I was talking about this yesterday and although of course it is a great idea it is a idea that as been financed by Paddy Power who have then stuck Stonewalls name to it at the end to gain more support. So the Scottish clubs have come to the opinion correctly I feel not to enforce any player in to wearing the laces as it is more of a support of Paddy Power than helping to stamp out homophobia in football.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

It would have zero impact if the clubs wanted/tried to enforce it. Let the players that want to wear them wear them and vice versa.

[JimBHibees]

It would have zero impact if the clubs wanted/tried to enforce it. Let the players that want to wear them wear them and vice versa.

I agree and the rather crass catch line IMO reduces the credibility of the campaign, worthwhile as it is.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Aye, that doesnae do the campaign many favours. What if you get right behind a gay female player, the Carry on type humour makes no sense, or is the campaign only about male players?

[Hibercelona]

It's a pair of rainbow coloured laces! :tee hee:

Are we to assume that all gay people are associated with bright colours and rainbows? Surely thats a stereotype in itself?

I believe the problem lies with the labels themselves. People shouldn't be thought of as "gays" or "straights". People should be judged independently instead of being shoved into a multiude of different groups.

This "grouping" only causes for greater divide.

[MSK]

It's a pair of rainbow coloured laces! :tee hee:

Are we to assume that all gay people are associated with bright colours and rainbows? Surely thats a stereotype in itself?

I believe the problem lies with the labels themselves. People shouldn't be thought of as "gays" or "straights". People should be judged independently instead of being shoved into a multiude of different groups.

This "grouping" only causes for greater divide.The rainbow flag has become a recognized symbol of the gay and lesbian community.

Use of the rainbow flag began in the 1970's primarily on the West Coast where it could be seen waving in the wind during Gay Pride marches. Today it is recognized throught the US and Europe as the symbol of gay and lesbian pride.

The eight colors of the rainbow represent the diversity of the gay and lesbian community, a community that incompasses people from all backgrounds, races and national origins and that spans the panoply of faiths and experience. The flags had eight stripes, each color representing a component of the community:

hot pink for sexuality

red for life

orange for healing

yellow for sun,

green for nature

turquoise for art

indigo for harmony

violet for spirit

A man by the name of Baker was the first to produce the rainbow flag and put the 8 colors on it. His first flag was a hand dyed and sewed the first flag himself.

Baker finally approached the Paramount Flag Company in San Francisco to mass produce the flags. Since Baker had hand dyed the his flag and hot pink was not commercially available, his 8 stripped flag became a mass produced 7 color, 7 stripped flag.

When Harvey Milk, San Francisco's first openly gay supervisor was assasinated, the Pride Parade Committe decided to show its solidarity in the wake of this tragity by using Bakers flag. The committee eliminated the indigo stripe so they could divide the colors evenly along the parade route - three colors on one side of the street and three on the other.

Soon the 6 colors were incorporated into the Rainbow Flag popular today and recognized by the International Congress of Flag Makers.

[davhibby]

Doesn't look like hibs will be wearing them anyway as according to Alan Maybury on twitter we weren't sent them! Poor show from the campaign if true

[nonshinyfinish]

Maybe not. If the clubs are leaving it up to the individual players then surely it will have more impact seeing them making a personal statement?

Agree with that. I've no problem with a club saying that they support it in general, but I wouldn't want them to say 'all our players will be participating'.

As I said above, making it mandatory makes it pointless.

[Andy Bee]

I'm not a fan of clubs embracing these sorts of initiatives and then basically forcing their players to wear t-shirts or shoelaces or whatever. If that person is doing it because they have to and not because they want to then it totally defeats the whole point of the initiative, in my opinion and I think you can see that with the anti-racism t-shirts that are worn regularly before games, in relation to the high profile cases in England over the past couple of years.

Forcing people to think or act in a particular way is never going to be a success and quite frankly, when I'm at a football match, the only thing I care about is Hibs getting three points. I don't care if we have black players, Muslim players or homosexual players. As long as we win, I'm going to go home happy.

I have my own views and beliefs on various subjects but I don't think a football match is the correct environment in which to bring those up, regardless of what your opinion is.



If you truly believe what you write and really don't care what colour, creed or sexual preference a player has then you have every right to be annoyed about this initiative because you sir, have the right attitude but sadly some people in this day and age don't have those beliefs. Football reaches a vast audience so why not try to use it to get the message across to them? Frankly I'd assume every one of our players would support it and if there were any objections they'd need a ****in good excuse why not, racism gets zero tolerance so should homophobia.

As for BH's argument about badgers/beavers or whatever he was prattling on about I'd ask him this, how many teenage badgers commit suicide because they simply can't live with what they think most of society thinks of them, would you have the same opinion if it was your own son or a close friend? This needs addressed and if football is used as a starting point to get the message across I couldn't give a flying ****, no matter which team wins, sometimes there's more important things than football.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Job done by BH. I'm sure he is right on top of badger/beaver discussions about family members being gay! For the record, as far as I'm concerned football is a lot more important than whatever someones sexuality is, maybe cos i care about football but have no interest in players off the field activities.

[blackpoolhibs]

If you truly believe what you write and really don't care what colour, creed or sexual preference a player has then you have every right to be annoyed about this initiative because you sir, have the right attitude but sadly some people in this day and age don't have those beliefs. Football reaches a vast audience so why not try to use it to get the message across to them? Frankly I'd assume every one of our players would support it and if there were any objections they'd need a ****in good excuse why not, racism gets zero tolerance so should homophobia.

As for BH's argument about badgers/beavers or whatever he was prattling on about I'd ask him this, how many teenage badgers commit suicide because they simply can't live with what they think most of society thinks of them, would you have the same opinion if it was your own son or a close friend? This needs addressed and if football is used as a starting point to get the message across I couldn't give a flying ****, no matter which team wins, sometimes there's more important things than football.

You COMPLETELY missed the point i was making. Why is football the vehicle for every minorities crusade?

Why do we not hear about gay Boxers initiatives, or boxers fighting racism?

Football has become more than football these days, and while these subjects are all good causes in their own rights why football?

And if we are all supposed to take these things serious, why don't we have an anti sectarian day at all grounds in Scotland, where all the players are sent anti sectarian laces?

These initiatives have bugger all to do with football, yes there might be gay people who are afraid to come out who are footballers, just as there are in every sport.

And just like the respect initiative, that still goes on today. It will be given lip service as the hand shake before each game shows, but players will still shout and swear at the ref, or punch other players or tackle them over the top of the ball, because deep down they don't give a toss about the initiative.

Respect is nothing to do with football, it's about each and every person behaving right, and its the same with the gay initiative, which should fall under the respect initiative.

Thats why i brought up the badger initiative, its about behaving right, where does it stop? :confused:

[joe breezy]

I've not read this whole thread but I'dike to point out that this is a Paddy Power initiative.

It's paid for by them and the branding for the ads etc around it is in their font and brand style.

Any club with a betting partner should not be taking part in the promotion of other betting companies..

Almost all big clubs have betting partners as part of their commercial agreements.

That's all there is to it. It's a publicity stunt by Paddy Power, a company that isn't exactly PC.

One of their ads not so long ago upset the transexual lobby as they had a mares or stallion / guess the tranny theme in it.

It's a big PR stunt by Paddy Power thought up by their advertising agency - Stonewall might have endorsed it but if Stonewall really wanted to do it they should have done it themselves. They might not have not been able to do the ads but they cold have afforded the laces and some PR.

Anyone saying Hibs should do it - why should Hibs back a PR stunt by a betting company that does nothing for Hibs?

And why would Hibs break contracts with their existing sponsors?

[blackpoolhibs]

I've not read this whole thread but I'dike to point out that this is a Paddy Power initiative.

It's paid for by them and the branding for the ads etc around it is in their font and brand style.

Any club with a betting partner should not be taking part in the promotion of other betting companies..

Almost all big clubs have betting partners as part of their commercial agreements.

That's all there is to it. It's a publicity stunt by Paddy Power, a company that isn't exactly PC.

One of their ads not so long ago upset the transexual lobby as they had a mares or stallion / guess the tranny theme in it.

It's a big PR stunt by Paddy Power thought up by their advertising agency - Stonewall might have said endorsed it but if Stonewall really wanted to do it they should have done it themselves. They might not have not been able to do the ads but they cold have afforded the laces and some PR.

Anyone saying Hibs should do it - why should Hibs back a PR stunt by a betting company that does nothing for Hibs?

And why would Hibs break contracts with their existing sponsors?


:agree:
Imagine if this was a Betvictor initiative?

Next week we will have some sort of initiative for gamblers with a gambling problem, Grant Brebner will be fronting it. :greengrin

[joe breezy]

:agree:
Imagine if this was a Betvictor initiative?

Next week we will have some sort of initiative for gamblers with a gambling problem, Grant Brebner will be fronting it. :greengrin

It would be more relevant for football players than the gay theme anyway...

[blackpoolhibs]

It would be more relevant for football players than the gay theme anyway...

Probably, as we do seem to have many more gamblers than gays? As i said many times before, where does it stop and why football?:confused:

[marinello59]

Probably, as we do seem to have many more gamblers than gays? As i said many times before, where does it stop and why football?:confused:

I don't recall the same 'where does it stop' comments during the Show Racism the red Card or Nil by Mouth campaigns. :confused:
And why not football? It really can be a force for good That sort of makes me proud to be a football fan.

[hibby rae]

I don't recall the same 'where does it stop' comments during the Show Racism the red Card or Nil by Mouth campaigns. :confused:
And why not football? It really can be a force for good That sort of makes me proud to be a football fan.

Biggest sport in the world so a great opportunity to reach a massive audience. Especially with the worldwide interest that there is for the Premiership.

[Keith_M]

Yes but apparently you're not to mention ze war!


Why not? They started it!



:wink:

[macca70]

I've not read this whole thread but I'dike to point out that this is a Paddy Power initiative.

It's paid for by them and the branding for the ads etc around it is in their font and brand style.

Any club with a betting partner should not be taking part in the promotion of other betting companies..

Almost all big clubs have betting partners as part of their commercial agreements.

That's all there is to it. It's a publicity stunt by Paddy Power, a company that isn't exactly PC.

One of their ads not so long ago upset the transexual lobby as they had a mares or stallion / guess the tranny theme in it.

It's a big PR stunt by Paddy Power thought up by their advertising agency - Stonewall might have endorsed it but if Stonewall really wanted to do it they should have done it themselves. They might not have not been able to do the ads but they cold have afforded the laces and some PR.

Anyone saying Hibs should do it - why should Hibs back a PR stunt by a betting company that does nothing for Hibs?

And why would Hibs break contracts with their existing sponsors?

Its a Commercial gimmick by Paddy Power, highlight by the fact the Strapline is 'Get Right Behind Gay Footballers', that's hardly treating the issue seriously. Which is the reason Chelsea won't be involved.

The Premier League/SPL clubs should set up a serious initiative but Paady Power are doing it for exposure and Commercial purposes.

[hibby rae]

Why not? They started it!



:wink:

"No we didn't!"

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't recall the same 'where does it stop' comments during the Show Racism the red Card or Nil by Mouth campaigns. :confused:
And why not football? It really can be a force for good That sort of makes me proud to be a football fan.

No you didn't, but its an adding up thing with me. How many initiatives can we have, very soon we will need to get into the ground an hour early to see and hear everything we have to adhere to.

Who picks these initiatives, who says what's suitable for football, and why?


And once again i ask, where does it stop?

[dp00]

So did we take part

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

[tamig]

The rainbow flag has become a recognized symbol of the gay and lesbian community.

Use of the rainbow flag began in the 1970's primarily on the West Coast where it could be seen waving in the wind during Gay Pride marches. Today it is recognized throught the US and Europe as the symbol of gay and lesbian pride.

The eight colors of the rainbow represent the diversity of the gay and lesbian community, a community that incompasses people from all backgrounds, races and national origins and that spans the panoply of faiths and experience. The flags had eight stripes, each color representing a component of the community:

hot pink for sexuality

red for life

orange for healing

yellow for sun,

green for nature

turquoise for art

indigo for harmony

violet for spirit

A man by the name of Baker was the first to produce the rainbow flag and put the 8 colors on it. His first flag was a hand dyed and sewed the first flag himself.

Baker finally approached the Paramount Flag Company in San Francisco to mass produce the flags. Since Baker had hand dyed the his flag and hot pink was not commercially available, his 8 stripped flag became a mass produced 7 color, 7 stripped flag.

When Harvey Milk, San Francisco's first openly gay supervisor was assasinated, the Pride Parade Committe decided to show its solidarity in the wake of this tragity by using Bakers flag. The committee eliminated the indigo stripe so they could divide the colors evenly along the parade route - three colors on one side of the street and three on the other.

Soon the 6 colors were incorporated into the Rainbow Flag popular today and recognized by the International Congress of Flag Makers.
Sorry to be a pedant but my recollection from my physics days are that there are only seven colours in the rainbow. Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet.

[mikewynne]

Sorry to be a pedant but my recollection from my physics days are that there are only seven colours in the rainbow. Red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet.

I'll up your pedantry! :) Western culture historically says there are 7 colours in the rainbow, physics says the number of colours are infinite.

[weonlywon6-2]

I see in the bbc link that they wish to drag football into the 21st century,unfortunate use of words i feel.

Devils advocate,if say ryan stevenson came out in the daily record tomorrow he was gay do you think we would have a big discussion on here?

[Eyrie]

I see in the bbc link that they wish to drag football into the 21st century,unfortunate use of words i feel.

Devils advocate,if say ryan stevenson came out in the daily record tomorrow he was gay do you think we would have a big discussion on here?

Given who he is and who he plays for, he'd get ripped on here. This would be on the same factual and non-discriminatory basis that sees Steve Fulton still get ripped for being ugly. If an Aberdeen or Partick player came out, shoulders would be shrugged and if it was a Hibs player we'd be supportive. That's the nature of football rivalry.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I see in the bbc link that they wish to drag football into the 21st century,unfortunate use of words i feel.

Devils advocate,if say ryan stevenson came out in the daily record tomorrow he was gay do you think we would have a big discussion on here?

I doubt his driver would be too chuffed!

[Jonnyboy]

Probably, as we do seem to have many more gamblers than gays? As i said many times before, where does it stop and why football?:confused:

Surprised that confuses you Gary. Football attracts crowds and this campaign was intended to raise awareness. The two go together, like it or not.