Sportscene - Michael Stewart comments about PF

[Jim44]

Interesting to hear Stewart still casting strong doubts about the suitability of Fenlon as the one to see us make steady progress. Despite a four game undefeated run, is Fenlon's jacket still on a very shoogly peg or has he weathered the storm?Personally, I tend to agree with Stewart but am reluctantly willing to give Fenlon a few games to prove that present potential isn't short-lived.

[Northernhibee]

If that man told me that the sky is blue I'd still look up to check.

Absoute Hearts bellend, no doubt bitter that his team are up **** creek.

[Sprouleflyer]

Interesting to hear Stewart still casting strong doubts about the suitability of Fenlon as the one to see us make steady progress. Despite a four game undefeated run, is Fenlon's jacket still on a very shoogly peg or has he weathered the storm?Personally, I tend to agree with Stewart but am reluctantly willing to give Fenlon a few games to prove that present potential isn't short-lived.

Stewart's comments pretty much mirrors the general feeling on here about Pat Fenlon.

I don't mind Stewart as a pundit.

[ScottB]

We've had a few of these decent runs of results before under Fenlon, so pundits are quite right to think that he's yet to fully answer his critics.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

An above average SPL pundit (and player) IMO. Better than most of the cliche machines on sportscene. Didn't hear what he said but sounds consistent with threads on here over the last couple of months.

[#FromTheCapital]

Couldn't really disagree with much of what he said last night except the h****s penalty incident, which was a blatant pen and should of been a red for Hand Ball Hamill. Seems like a decent pundit although he's still a dick.

[matty_f]

I think he's a decent pundit. Noticed there were no manager interviews from the Hibs game but there were for every other one, also in the final montage, goals from all the other games bar ours. What's that all about?

[MB62]

The coming few months is going to be a big test for Pat. The board have backed him to the hilt with allowing to sign ten players, so this is HIS team now. I personally think he has put together a very good squad of players, best outside of the dodgers, as I have said before, and we should now be looking at pushing for 2nd spot over the rest of the season. It is now up to Pat to show us that he has the management skills to put the team and tactics on the park to get us up there.
The football we have been watching at ER so far has been pretty brutal. I think we have the chance to change this around with the players available, let's just see what happens now, then judge Pat again in a few months time.

[Coco Bryce]

I thought his comments were spot on. Pat has a long way to go to win back a large section of our support. Winning is a great start though.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I think he's a decent pundit. Noticed there were no manager interviews from the Hibs game but there were for every other one, also in the final montage, goals from all the other games bar ours. What's that all about?

An advert for the goals online.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

I quite like him as a pundit as well but as previous posters have said he's a bit of a welt, and what was with the two different shoes on last night? :hmmm: and also agree that our game seemed to be rushed out of the road.I very seldom watch this programme as I really do feel the BBC are anti-Hibs

[Ozyhibby]

I quite like him as a pundit as well but as previous posters have said he's a bit of a welt, and what was with the two different shoes on last night? :hmmm: and also agree that our game seemed to be rushed out of the road.I very seldom watch this programme as I really do feel the BBC are anti-Hibs

The sportsound radio team are definitely anti Hibs. The Jambo love in they have each week is a disgrace considering what they have done to the game.
Still, who cares? They are about to disappear for ever.

[Keith_M]

I thought his comments were spot on. Pat has a long way to go to win back a large section of our support. Winning is a great start though.


This.



Also, I've actually met Michael Stewart (when he was at Hibs) and he seemed like a nice bloke. He went out of his way to get player autographs for my parents and was a very pleasant guy.

Sorry :wink:

[Bishop Hibee]

Stewart is entitled to his opinion and what he says mirrors what a lot of Hibs fans feel. What annoys me is that its the first time I've heard a pundit on BBC Scotland being so outspoken about a manager. Do you think they would say that about Alan Johnston, Danny Lennon or another of their darlings? No chance.

[Hibercelona]

The sportsound radio team are definitely anti Hibs. The Jambo love in they have each week is a disgrace considering what they have done to the game.
Still, who cares? They are about to disappear for ever.

I wouldn't call them "anti-hibs". But there's certainly a Hearts sympathy/love-in going on and it's not just on sportsound.

[Hibby Gav]

Doesn't matter if it's a Sevco or ****bo love in at Sportsound...nobody cares what they think or say...they broadcast to suck up to the 'old firm' and when they get it slightly wrong get their arse bitten....and then rush back for more...All I care about is Hibs...a fighting away win is a start..Zoubir looks keen to have some fun...and hopefully our strikers will relax now. Bring on Saturday and Chic's cover story team ;)

[PISTOL1875]

Couldn't really disagree with much of what he said last night except the h****s penalty incident, which was a blatant pen and should of been a red for Hand Ball Hamill. Seems like a decent pundit although he's still a dick.


Honestly , have you been drinking serious amounts of alcohol ???

[PISTOL1875]

Say what you like about MS , but his analysis and views on the panel are spot on.. His opinion of Fenlon last night was spot on..

[PISTOL1875]

This.



Also, I've actually met Michael Stewart (when he was at Hibs) and he seemed like a nice bloke. He went out of his way to get player autographs for my parents and was a very pleasant guy.

Sorry :wink:


There's no need to apolgise for the evident narrow mindedness of some people that have posted on this thread..

[Bad Martini]

He may have had the communal brain for the collective yams last night but he is still a bitter fudley, IMHO.

:beer:

[Northernhibee]

Anyone got the footage of him decking it in the tunnel?

[Hibby Gav]

Anyone got the footage of him decking it in the tunnel?

enjoy ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhC31VUOQeY

[Northernhibee]

enjoy ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhC31VUOQeY

That never gets old.

[Hibby Gav]

That never gets old.

it's better than an apple a day !

[Hibby Gav]

That never gets old.

neither does http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBQvgKZL5QQ

[offshorehibby]

The coming few months is going to be a big test for Pat. The board have backed him to the hilt with allowing to sign ten players, so this is HIS team now. I personally think he has put together a very good squad of players, best outside of the dodgers, as I have said before, and we should now be looking at pushing for 2nd spot over the rest of the season. It is now up to Pat to show us that he has the management skills to put the team and tactics on the park to get us up there.
The football we have been watching at ER so far has been pretty brutal. I think we have the chance to change this around with the players available, let's just see what happens now, then judge Pat again in a few months time.

MS is sticking to what he's obviously said already and what many Hibs supporters are still thinking. The football on display in this 4 game run has not been pretty.
I'd still like to see everything come together and Pat turning things round. Agree 100% with what MB62 says.

[Spike Mandela]

Micheal Stewart is a decent pundit, articulate with some interesting things to say. I have never found him overly biased towards the Hearts and is indeed respectful and knowledgeable about the Hibs imo.

[The Baldmans Comb]

Michael Stewart is an excellent pundit and it is a breath of fresh air to hear someone have a real proper opinion instead of the meally mouthed drivel that you usually get.

His opinion on Fenlon seem to reflect the general opinion of the majority of Hibs fans although we all want to be proved wrong.

[WestEndHibee]

Honestly , have you been drinking serious amounts of alcohol ???


Say what you like about MS , but his analysis and views on the panel are spot on.. His opinion of Fenlon last night was spot on..


There's no need to apolgise for the evident narrow mindedness of some people that have posted on this thread..

Hi MS, Hiya pal! :greengrin


Seriously though his guess is only as good as ours, no-one knows if PF will be the one to take us forward just like no-one knows if we'll win next week. We do know that PF has done terribly in terms of entertaining fans (bar a few games) but these things can change in the space of one match so I live in hope.

[--------]

Stewart is entitled to his opinion and what he says mirrors what a lot of Hibs fans feel. What annoys me is that its the first time I've heard a pundit on BBC Scotland being so outspoken about a manager. Do you think they would say that about Alan Johnston, Danny Lennon or another of their darlings? No chance.


My feeling. I wouldn't trust Stewart an inch and I've never heard any other 'pundit' attack a manager the way Stewart did Fenlon last night.

If anything, what Stewart said, and the way he said it, makes me that bit more inclined to give PF a bit more benefit of the doubt I have that he's the main reason for our problems.

As has been said, he's assembled a decent-looking squad (which right now is badly curtailed by injuries to players like McPake, Clancy, Harris, McGivern and Cairney). We had a nightmare against Malmo when some of us were expecting a fairly straightforward victory, and lost the derby when again a lot of us were assuming we would win fairly comfortably. Things aren't right at the club, but whetehr that's Pat Fenlon's fault is IMO well open to argument.

My opinion is that Stewart was stirring it last night; I do not like the guy.

[weonlywon6-2]

Interesting to hear Stewart still casting strong doubts about the suitability of Fenlon as the one to see us make steady progress. Despite a four game undefeated run, is Fenlon's jacket still on a very shoogly peg or has he weathered the storm?Personally, I tend to agree with Stewart but am reluctantly willing to give Fenlon a few games to prove that present potential isn't short-lived.

I have to agree with him.Fenlon loses on saturday we are back to square one

[Beefster]

Stewart is one of the better pundits in Scotland, irrespective of his history. He didn't say anything last night that a lot of folk on here haven't been saying.

[blackpoolhibs]

My feeling. I wouldn't trust Stewart an inch and I've never heard any other 'pundit' attack a manager the way Stewart did Fenlon last night.

If anything, what Stewart said, and the way he said it, makes me that bit more inclined to give PF a bit more benefit of the doubt I have that he's the main reason for our problems.

As has been said, he's assembled a decent-looking squad (which right now is badly curtailed by injuries to players like McPake, Clancy, Harris, McGivern and Cairney). We had a nightmare against Malmo when some of us were expecting a fairly straightforward victory, and lost the derby when again a lot of us were assuming we would win fairly comfortably. Things aren't right at the club, but whetehr that's Pat Fenlon's fault is IMO well open to argument.

My opinion is that Stewart was stirring it last night; I do not like the guy.


:agree:
Yip i agree 100% Doddie, and i'd bet my last penny he'd never say anything like that about any other manager in the league.

[IWasThere2016]

I thought his comments were spot on. Pat has a long way to go to win back a large section of our support. Winning is a great start though.


This. Also, I've actually met Michael Stewart (when he was at Hibs) and he seemed like a nice bloke.

I agree.

[Seveno]

It's nice to know that they added benefit of Pat succeeding at Hibs would be that it would annoy the hell out of the Jambos.

[Bighoose]

Compared to his fellow pundit Bully Doads, at least MS has formed his own opinions and can articulate them.

Would rather listen to him than the other rent a gobs they have on Sportsound.

[PatHead]

Can they not get Steven Craigen back? (only joking)

[LeithBoozy]

Whether we agree with him or not, like us he is entitled to his own views. Then again sportscene should LTYF. :greengrin

[Mac]

The coming few months is going to be a big test for Pat. The board have backed him to the hilt with allowing to sign ten players, so this is HIS team now. I personally think he has put together a very good squad of players, best outside of the dodgers, as I have said before, and we should now be looking at pushing for 2nd spot over the rest of the season. It is now up to Pat to show us that he has the management skills to put the team and tactics on the park to get us up there.
The football we have been watching at ER so far has been pretty brutal. I think we have the chance to change this around with the players available, let's just see what happens now, then judge Pat again in a few months time.

:top marks spot on for me!!

[Mac]

My feeling. I wouldn't trust Stewart an inch and I've never heard any other 'pundit' attack a manager the way Stewart did Fenlon last night.

If anything, what Stewart said, and the way he said it, makes me that bit more inclined to give PF a bit more benefit of the doubt I have that he's the main reason for our problems.

As has been said, he's assembled a decent-looking squad (which right now is badly curtailed by injuries to players like McPake, Clancy, Harris, McGivern and Cairney). We had a nightmare against Malmo when some of us were expecting a fairly straightforward victory, and lost the derby when again a lot of us were assuming we would win fairly comfortably. Things aren't right at the club, but whetehr that's Pat Fenlon's fault is IMO well open to argument.

My opinion is that Stewart was stirring it last night; I do not like the guy.

TBF he did give him credit for the squad he has put together and PF has an eye for a player, which again backs up most Hibs fans view never mind MS, that PF has been massively underachieving, fair point with the injuries but still had a good enough squad to be playing better and getting far better results.

[Saturdays Hero]

:agree:
Yip i agree 100% Doddie, and i'd bet my last penny he'd never say anything like that about any other manager in the league.

I thought Stewart was more scathing of Danny Lennon than Pat Fenlon,comments that he's not sure if he still has the dressing room & that he wouldn't be surprised if he gets the sack.

[ancient hibee]

I thought that the classic on Sportscene was choosing the 4th D.U.goal as an example of everything that was good about attacking play with excellent passing and movement-and then having to admit that it should have been chalked off for offside.Could that happen on any other sports programme?

And while I think about it there was no comment about the United penalty where Mackay-Steven simply ran into Brown.

[21.05.2016]

Can't stand that horrible wee jambo prick! Loved stirring **** in the dressing room when he was with us! Couldn't care less what he has to say tbh.

[sesoim]

My feeling. I wouldn't trust Stewart an inch and I've never heard any other 'pundit' attack a manager the way Stewart did Fenlon last night.

If anything, what Stewart said, and the way he said it, makes me that bit more inclined to give PF a bit more benefit of the doubt I have that he's the main reason for our problems.

As has been said, he's assembled a decent-looking squad (which right now is badly curtailed by injuries to players like McPake, Clancy, Harris, McGivern and Cairney). We had a nightmare against Malmo when some of us were expecting a fairly straightforward victory, and lost the derby when again a lot of us were assuming we would win fairly comfortably. Things aren't right at the club, but whetehr that's Pat Fenlon's fault is IMO well open to argument.

My opinion is that Stewart was stirring it last night; I do not like the guy.


Totally disagree. I think he is one of the few pundits prepared to say EXACTLY what he thinks. If you listen to him on Radio Scotland he is the same. The only time I've really disagreed with him about anything is when he is talking about Hearts. He is an intelligent guy and, if anything, hearing him talk makes me question the way some people make out John Collins to be a complete innocent when it comes to the big fallout in 2007.

But getting back to the main issue - Fenlon has the 2nd or 3rd biggest budget in the League, and until he has us sitting in 2nd or 3rd in the League and playing half decent football, he isn't doing well enough. And that's aside form the last two years being pretty poor, and at times downright shocking.

[sesoim]

:agree:
Yip i agree 100% Doddie, and i'd bet my last penny he'd never say anything like that about any other manager in the league.



Surely If he hated Hibs he'd want us to keep Fenlon? Hearts fans are still laughing at us thanks to Fenlon, and they know deep down we should be doing much better. They also know crowds are going to disappear the longer he stays. Every Jambo I know wants Fenlon to stay, so at least Stewart isn't allowing his affinities To cloud his judgement about Hibs.

[Billy Whizz]

He's on Sportsound just now, and ripped into Ian Black. Worth a listen later on the podcast

[hhibs]

I actually think he is a breath of fresh air.

Telling it as he sees it, not the usual cover your arse or bias of most of the BBC "pundits".

No doubt he will say things that will get up our noses as the season goes on but, come on ,compared to Dodds,Chico,Ferguson and most of the rest.........he is worth listening to.

And,not a bammer like Sheils !

[Barman Stanton]

Will always remember how pissed off he looked getting his CIS Cup Medal having never played. But like him as a pundit. Can't really argue with anything he said.

[lapsedhibee]

I actually think he is a breath of fresh air.

Telling it as he sees it, not the usual cover your arse or bias of most of the BBC "pundits".

No doubt he will say things that will get up our noses as the season goes on but, come on ,compared to Dodds,Chico,Ferguson and most of the rest.........he is worth listening to.



:agree: The Gary Neville of the North. Whatever you thought about him as a player or the team he played for, there's no denying he's a class above the average pundit.

[clerriehibs]

Surely If he hated Hibs he'd want us to keep Fenlon? Hearts fans are still laughing at us thanks to Fenlon, and they know deep down we should be doing much better. They also know crowds are going to disappear the longer he stays. Every Jambo I know wants Fenlon to stay, so at least Stewart isn't allowing his affinities To cloud his judgement about Hibs.


It's a wind-up, nothing more.

[Winston Ingram]

He's an excellent pundit. I usually find him to be very honest, impartial and offers a very good insight. Very unusual for a pundit in Scottish football

[Moon unit]

Sport scene on the radio is so amateurish..can't stand listening to the oohs and ahhh's from around the grounds with the likes of Preston and Derek Fergusson .They all spout meaningless pap without giving any meaningful info about the games...and yes it's a Jambo love in !

[500miles]

You can't talk about another professional the way he did. It's childish, arrogant, and says more about Stewart than it does about Fenlon. Loads of guys have asked questions of Pat, but the manner in which Stewart did made him look like he had a chip on his shoulder.

He's just trying to make a name for himself as a pundit now no one wants him as a player.

[Sir David Gray]

Pat Fenlon's an easy target for people like Stewart in the media.

He's not really a media darling and I don't think I've ever seen him on any shows as a summariser or a pundit etc during the time that he's been in charge of us.

It's a lot easier to attack someone when you don't really know them and don't have to face them.

Fenlon just has to keep picking up results and stuff everyone else in the media who has been giving him, and the club, stick.

A win on Saturday would be a good starting point.

[clerriehibs]

Pat Fenlon's an easy target for people like Stewart in the media.

He's not really a media darling and I don't think I've ever seen him on any shows as a summariser or a pundit etc during the time that he's been in charge of us.

It's a lot easier to attack someone when you don't really know them and don't have to face them.

Fenlon just has to keep picking up results and stuff everyone else in the media who has been giving him, and the club, stick.

A win on Saturday would be a good starting point.

Starting point? We're already on a 4 game unbeaten run.

[Sir David Gray]

Starting point? We're already on a 4 game unbeaten run.

Yep, but our lack of wins at Easter Road is still a stick that some sections of the media like to beat him with.

We're at home on Saturday against what is probably the worst team in the league and we need to pick up the three points.

[Shrekko]

:agree: The Gary Neville of the North. Whatever you thought about him as a player or the team he played for, there's no denying he's a class above the average pundit.

I read that same comparison with Gary Neville in one of the tabloids and about pee'd myself.

Stewart is clearly well brought up and has better grammar etc., than your average Scottish football personality but people are going WAY overboard with all this 'articulate and interesting' stuff. He actually rolls out the cliches with the best of them and actually says very little most of the time. I do agree he can give opinions that are likely to upset the people being talked about and fair enough, but I think that's more to do with the bitter side of his personality which has come to the fore on many occasions.

Anyone who thinks he holds a candle to John Collins in any regard is badly mistaken IMO. You can be sure that any stirring that went on was based on what was good for Michael Stewart and not the team as a whole. Self centred individual that could just never get over the fact he wasn't actually at Man Utd any more. Some of his behaviour when playing for Hibs was disgusting in terms of the lack of respect he showed the club and it's fans who were good to him. Why anyone cares about his opinion on anything Hibs related is anyone's guess. Last time I heard him on the radio, a Hibs fan told him he'd scored a great goal for Hibs v Aberdeen and he said he 'couldn't remember that' as in 'I'm trying to wipe that out the memory bank'. He can GTF.

[JOD]

My feeling. I wouldn't trust Stewart an inch and I've never heard any other 'pundit' attack a manager the way Stewart did Fenlon last night.


My opinion is that Stewart was stirring it last night; I do not like the guy. Totally agreem8 My memories of Stewart are quite vivid. he scored a wonder goal against the sheep looked up the sky and went I didnae want to dae that it should have went over the bar. oh **** IVE scored I better celebrate !!!! After that his role in going to Petrie's hoose about JC was like Brutus and Caesar a stab in the back to our John. Guess you've worked out I don't like the guy. Once a Jambo always a Jambo never did he once show any luv for our beloved Hibs. So all folks that rate him as some kinda pundit as eg., Hanson/Lawernson I don't think so !!!!

[lapsedhibee]

I read that same comparison with Gary Neville in one of the tabloids and about pee'd myself.

Stewart is clearly well brought up and has better grammar etc., than your average Scottish football personality but people are going WAY overboard with all this 'articulate and interesting' stuff.

Clearly not well brought up, since he's a yam, but I do confess to preferring his decent and comparatively thoughtful English to the weegie grunting and slavering that passes for commentary in large swathes of the broadcast media fitba coverage here.

[Geo_1875]

Totally agreem8 My memories of Stewart are quite vivid. he scored a wonder goal against the sheep looked up the sky and went I didnae want to dae that it should have went over the bar. oh **** IVE scored I better celebrate !!!! After that his role in going to Petrie's hoose about JC was like Brutus and Caesar a stab in the back to our John. Guess you've worked out I don't like the guy. Once a Jambo always a Jambo never did he once show any luv for our beloved Hibs. So all folks that rate him as some kinda pundit as eg., Hanson/Lawernson I don't think so !!!!

I think the comparison with Hansen and Laurenson are perfectly valid. They are a pair of overrated ***** as well.

[Brizo]

i dont want to like Stewart as a pundit but unfortunately I find him infinitely better than Doddsy, Fergie, Chick Young etc etc.

Unlike these characters who are being paid by us the licence fee payer to sit on the fence and not upset anyone Stewart actually expresses an opinion. Ive no doubt theres a big want to make a name for himself element and I missed the PF discussion but I thought his comments last night re Black were spot on... and a refreshing change from the aforementioned fence sitters.

As much as I like Murdo McL I find his contributions very dull and Yogis stint as a pundit made Doddsy sound like Stephen Fry. Stewart maybe a Jambo #### but unlike Preston hes an articulate one ; and one of the better pundits in the dumbed down BBC radio coverage.

[Mr White]

I think his intelligence is a bit over-rated, just because he's better than some of the other idiots that comment on football in this country doesn't make him a candidate for MENSA. Also find it interesting that he's so critical of others given the talent he wasted by being out the game by the age of 30 because of his torn faced self centred attitude.

[Geo_1875]

i dont want to like Stewart as a pundit but unfortunately I find him infinitely better than Doddsy, Fergie, Chick Young etc etc.

Unlike these characters who are being paid by us the licence fee payer to sit on the fence and not upset anyone Stewart actually expresses an opinion. Ive no doubt theres a big want to make a name for himself element and I missed the PF discussion but I thought his comments last night re Black were spot on... and a refreshing change from the aforementioned fence sitters.

As much as I like Murdo McL I find his contributions very dull and Yogis stint as a pundit made Doddsy sound like Stephen Fry. Stewart maybe a Jambo #### but unlike Preston hes an articulate one ; and one of the better pundits in the dumbed down BBC radio coverage.

The thing is it's really a matter of him being less bad than the others you mention. He is not particularly articulate, just better spoken and less shouty than most of the other welts. It's like comparing Speirs and Traynor. I don't particularly like either but if forced to make a choice I'd read and listen to Speirs.

[Hibercelona]

Stewarts just giving his opinion on the matter. Some will agree with him and some will disagree with him.

But you can't really bash a pundit for being too forward. Pundits are supposed to give an open honest opinion, thats why they're there. It's the ones that always "sit on the fence" of every talking point that I find really annoying. They're just too cowardly to say what they really think.

[JimBHibees]

I think his intelligence is a bit over-rated, just because he's better than some of the other idiots that comment on football in this country doesn't make him a candidate for MENSA. Also find it interesting that he's so critical of others given the talent he wasted by being out the game by the age of 30 because of his torn faced self centred attitude.

Yep it isnt as if he is being compared to Stephen Hawking it is Chick Young, Dodds, Preston and Robbo. :greengrin

[--------]

Totally agreem8 My memories of Stewart are quite vivid. he scored a wonder goal against the sheep looked up the sky and went I didnae want to dae that it should have went over the bar. oh **** IVE scored I better celebrate !!!! After that his role in going to Petrie's hoose about JC was like Brutus and Caesar a stab in the back to our John. Guess you've worked out I don't like the guy. Once a Jambo always a Jambo never did he once show any luv for our beloved Hibs. So all folks that rate him as some kinda pundit as eg., Hanson/Lawernson I don't think so !!!!


Glad someone agrees with me! :greengrin

[KeithTheHibby]

Totally agreem8 My memories of Stewart are quite vivid. he scored a wonder goal against the sheep looked up the sky and went I didnae want to dae that it should have went over the bar. oh **** IVE scored I better celebrate !!!! After that his role in going to Petrie's hoose about JC was like Brutus and Caesar a stab in the back to our John. Guess you've worked out I don't like the guy. Once a Jambo always a Jambo never did he once show any luv for our beloved Hibs. So all folks that rate him as some kinda pundit as eg., Hanson/Lawernson I don't think so !!!!

This post is so flawed it's borderline nonsense.

Is this the same game when MS was barfing on the pitch and didn't re-appear for the second half? Could his lack of celebration be to do with him not feeling particularly well? Say what you want about him however don't question his commitment when he played for Hibs.
You have no evidence what went on that night at Petrie's house. It wasn't just him, Sproule, Jones and Brown were also involved but I don't see you sticking the boot into them? Is it because MS is a jambo?

MS has given PF a hard time earlier this season and rightly so. Who hasn't? It would have been easy for him to say on Sportscene how great a job Fenlon is doing which would totally contradict what he had said previously on the show but he didn't. Fair play to him on that and I think his comments on Sunday past were pretty honest unlike yours.

[--------]

This post is so flawed it's borderline nonsense.

Is this the same game when MS was barfing on the pitch and didn't re-appear for the second half? Could his lack of celebration be to do with him not feeling particularly well? Say what you want about him however don't question his commitment when he played for Hibs.
You have no evidence what went on that night at Petrie's house. It wasn't just him, Sproule, Jones and Brown were also involved but I don't see you sticking the boot into them? Is it because MS is a jambo?

MS has given PF a hard time earlier this season and rightly so. Who hasn't? It would have been easy for him to say on Sportscene how great a job Fenlon is doing which would totally contradict what he had said previously on the show but he didn't. Fair play to him on that and I think his comments on Sunday past were pretty honest unlike yours.


Well, I've always been of the opinion (and been open about it) that I consider Brown and Jones at least to have been complicit in undermining John Collins, and I know Sproule was in the 17 so I guess he was too. But they aren't pundits on BBC Scotland right now, damning Pat Fenlon with faint praise.

As for him 'always being fair', I have a vivid recollection of his punditry at the Cup Final two years ago - fair and impartial then?

Or after the derby at the end of last season? His face was tripping him and his summary was hardly impartial.

Pat came in half-way through a season when the team was in total disarray. He kept us up - which was the target set him - with a number of signings which at best were short-term, at worst were emergency 'take whoever you can get' jobs.

That season wasn't about any kind of considered long-term planning.

Last season was his first where he had something approaching his own squad and a planned pre-season. It started well, then tailed off after McPake was injured. Question-marks were raised - legitimately - about his tactical ability. Some of those questions remain to be answered.

This season he's added to the squad and as far as I can see strengthened it both by signing players form other clubs and by promoting youngsters from within Hibs. As far as I'm concerned, the jury's still out.

The main disappointment has been that while twice we've reached the Scottish Cup Final, we've been hammerd in both, onc e by Hearts in circumstances which really hurt, and then by Celtic when we were all hoping we might have shown a lot more competitive spirit. And then there was the Malmo game at ER which gutted everyone.

But effectively Pat Fenlon isn't in his third season at Hibs - he's half-a-dozen games into his SECOND season, and while I can understand and share a lot of the doubts that people have expressed about him, I do not like to hear a guy who, while he played one season for us has never hidden the fact that he's a Jambo through and through, being praised by Hibs supporters for undermining the Hibs manager, which is what I consider him to have been doing on Sunday night.

People are praising him NOW because he said what they think - he's a great guy for agreeing with them.

Whether they and he are right or wrong still remains to be seen, but to say that Pat Fenlon's had 'two seasons' to turn things round and should be farther forward now isn't fair comment. He had the remit originally to keep us up - he kept us up. Last season was the first season when he could begin to plan constructively to take the team forward. The team showed an improvement over the season as a whole, while certain questions still remain.

This is his second full season, and it's only SIX games old. At Perth the team probably gave their best performance of the season so far, and the strikers PF signed both scored. In fact, Hibs could have won more comfortably if a couple of other good attempts had gone in.

I don't consider Stewart's summing-up to have been either fair or impartial.

Rant over. :devil:

[Owain_1987]

Well Stewart can go and jump of a bridge and because of his comments am now 110% behind Fenlon and hope we hump Hearts 7 - 0 in our last two games against them this season! :flag:

[Don Giovanni]

Pundits are supposed to give an open honest opinion, thats why they're there. It's the ones that always "sit on the fence" of every talking point that I find really annoying. They're just too cowardly to say what they really think.

You are giving the hard-of-thinking too much credit here.

Chic "Blowhard" Young, Billy "Imbecile" Dodds & Alan "Premature" Preston consistently fail to provide original thought or insight.

Derek Fergusson can barely speak FFS!

And as for Willie Miller on open all mics on Saturday passed, deary me. He only droned comment when prompted by Richard Gordon and had absolutely no interest in what he was watching (he'd make a photo finish in the Grand National sound dull - the miserable auld *******).
If it's not his Dandy Dons he's simply not interested.

We really are being short changed regarding the BBC's football coverage in Scotland.

[jdships]

Well, I've always been of the opinion (and been open about it) that I consider Brown and Jones at least to have been complicit in undermining John Collins, and I know Sproule was in the 17 so I guess he was too. But they aren't pundits on BBC Scotland right now, damning Pat Fenlon with faint praise. As for him 'always being fair', I have a vivid recollection of his punditry at the Cup Final two years ago - fair and impartial then? Or after the derby at the end of last season? His face was tripping him and his summary was hardly impartial.

People are praising him because he said what they think - he's a great guy for agreeing with them.

He was involved in undermining and destroying the career of one Hibs manager, and I suspect he was at it again on Sunday night.

Don't wish to reopen a debate on John Collins tenure as manager BUT JC brought about his own downfall .
Speak with the younger players who weren't involved in the so called " undermining" and you will get th true story of what went on at EM !!
As for MS just don't rate him as a "pundit" - he may improve with experience :wink:

[patlowe]

You are giving the hard-of-thinking too much credit here.

Chic "Blowhard" Young, Billy "Imbecile" Dodds & Alan "Premature" Preston consistently fail to provide original thought or insight.

Derek Fergusson can barely speak FFS!

And as for Willie Miller on open all mics on Saturday passed, deary me. He only droned comment when prompted by Richard Gordon and had absolutely no interest in what he was watching (he'd make a photo finish in the Grand National sound dull - the miserable auld *******).
If it's not his Dandy Dons he's simply not interested.

We really are being short changed regarding the BBC's football coverage in Scotland.

Agree with most of the sentiment here but I have to stick up for Derek Ferguson. OK, maybe he isn't blessed with a high level of articulation or linguistic sophistication but I tend to find him insightful and generally spot on in everything he says. He strikes me a passionate guy who has reflected on his own career (and possible character flaws) and uses that to good effect when commenting on the game. I also understand he does a lot of good work with youngsters in relation to Show Racism the Red Card.

[--------]

Don't wish to reopen a debate on John Collins tenure as manager BUT JC brought about his own downfall.
Speak with the younger players who weren't involved in the so called " undermining" and you will get th true story of what went on at EM !!
As for MS just don't rate him as a "pundit" - he may improve with experience :wink:


I'm well aware that JC didn't help himself in the slightest. But when the 17 turned up at Petrie's house that night the team had just recently won the League Cup in spectacular fashion. Collins had come in in the November and had delivered silverware - whatever his faults, are you suggesting that Stewart, Jones, Brown, Sproule and Co were acting out of selfless concern for the younger players? Or out of an active dislike for their boss, and in Stewart's case, an active dislike for Hibs? Rod Petrie should have sent them packing, but then maybe he did, but when the story hit the papers the club went into turmoil from which it doesn't seem to have emerged yet.

As you say, let's not open up an old story that's probably not relevant here. I just don't like or trust the guy, and I don't consider what he said on Sunday to be either fair or impartial.

But I would stand by my opinion that people are saying he's impartial and fair and honest and all that simply because he said what they've been saying.

There's no one so honest and wise as the man who agrees with ME. :devil:

[Hibiza]

"Agent Provocateur" :jamboid:

[Tricla]

Michael Stewart




Anus

[The_Horde]

Michael Stewart


Failure. Pundit by 30

[Heisenberg]

Michael Stewart.

His face tripping him after the cup final still makes me happy.

[oregonhibby]

The BBC are required to be balanced and the programme was not at all that. Stewart is as articulate as any footballer. Both guests went out their way to have a pop and be overly critical without the presenter putting a different view. I am not sure whether Stewart has his coaching badges or has held a managers position so I am not entirely sure how he can criticise the coaching that goes on - other than that of being a footballer. That led directly to the question about who removes a manager which allowed Stewart to have a direct pop at Petrie and cast the Club again in a negative light.

He was one of the main players being a senior squad member and was well known for his belligerence in the dressing room with other players - Mowbray once told me he could start a fight in an empty room - and he seems to admit he played a main role. What happened happened and he was emptied. He has carried this ill feeling for Petrie into his new job.

In the end you have to worry about the programmes editorial policy - the lack of balance would suggest it wants Hibs to fail. There does not seem to be a Hibs minded pundit and perhaps they should look at that. We don't have to agree with everything but the least you can expect is a counter argument - at least that is what it says in the BBC charter.

There are other sports programmes..............

[degenerated]

Say what you like about MS

Okay I will do just that, he's the punditry equivalent of the house wine in a suburban indian restaurant.

[Fergus52]

Totally agreem8 My memories of Stewart are quite vivid. he scored a wonder goal against the sheep looked up the sky and went I didnae want to dae that it should have went over the bar. oh **** IVE scored I better celebrate !!!! After that his role in going to Petrie's hoose about JC was like Brutus and Caesar a stab in the back to our John. Guess you've worked out I don't like the guy. Once a Jambo always a Jambo never did he once show any luv for our beloved Hibs. So all folks that rate him as some kinda pundit as eg., Hanson/Lawernson I don't think so !!!!

They're the worst, especially Hansen.

He doesn't offer any insight into game, he just says whats happening.

Also he's Scottish but he cried when Croatia stopped England from qualifying for the Euros.

[Ozyhibby]

Stewart is the best pundit in Scotland by a country mile right now. The real test of whether that makes him a good pundit or not will come when he has to make a criticism of either Celtic or the new Rangers. Then we will see if he is capable of being a really good pundit.
As far a his opinion on Fenlon goes, he's not really the only one of this opinion. Most fans on here think the exact same thing.
My problem is with the BBC running with that as a topic at this time. It's like it was pencilled in 3 weeks ago and they decided they had to go with it anyway.
Hopefully Pat uses it to motivate the team and prove them and us on here who agreed with them wrong.

[Tricla]

Stewart is the best pundit in Scotland by a country mile right now. The real test of whether that makes him a good pundit or not will come when he has to make a criticism of either Celtic or the new Rangers. Then we will see if he is capable of being a really good pundit.
As far a his opinion on Fenlon goes, he's not really the only one of this opinion. Most fans on here think the exact same thing.
My problem is with the BBC running with that as a topic at this time. It's like it was pencilled in 3 weeks ago and they decided they had to go with it anyway.
Hopefully Pat uses it to motivate the team and prove them and us on here who agreed with them wrong.

Eh? Better than oor Pat?

MS is a boring, monotone douchebag.

[DarlingtonHibee]

No sign of Saturday's podcast yet - normally up by now - wonder why ?

[Danderhall Hibs]

They're the worst, especially Hansen.

He doesn't offer any insight into game, he just says whats happening.

Also he's Scottish but he cried when Croatia stopped England from qualifying for the Euros.

Baws he did.

[Billy Whizz]

No sign of Saturday's podcast yet - normally up by now - wonder why ?

Think they do a combined Saturday/Sunday one

[DarlingtonHibee]

Think they do a combined Saturday/Sunday one

No, I think they do a Saturday Sportsound "Extra", then a seperate Sunday one - maybe they will upload at the same time :thumbsup:

[ekhibee]

Well, I've always been of the opinion (and been open about it) that I consider Brown and Jones at least to have been complicit in undermining John Collins, and I know Sproule was in the 17 so I guess he was too. But they aren't pundits on BBC Scotland right now, damning Pat Fenlon with faint praise.

As for him 'always being fair', I have a vivid recollection of his punditry at the Cup Final two years ago - fair and impartial then?

Or after the derby at the end of last season? His face was tripping him and his summary was hardly impartial.

Pat came in half-way through a season when the team was in total disarray. He kept us up - which was the target set him - with a number of signings which at best were short-term, at worst were emergency 'take whoever you can get' jobs.

That season wasn't about any kind of considered long-term planning.

Last season was his first where he had something approaching his own squad and a planned pre-season. It started well, then tailed off after McPake was injured. Question-marks were raised - legitimately - about his tactical ability. Some of those questions remain to be answered.

This season he's added to the squad and as far as I can see strengthened it both by signing players form other clubs and by promoting youngsters from within Hibs. As far as I'm concerned, the jury's still out.

The main disappointment has been that while twice we've reached the Scottish Cup Final, we've been hammerd in both, onc e by Hearts in circumstances which really hurt, and then by Celtic when we were all hoping we might have shown a lot more competitive spirit. And then there was the Malmo game at ER which gutted everyone.

But effectively Pat Fenlon isn't in his third season at Hibs - he's half-a-dozen games into his SECOND season, and while I can understand and share a lot of the doubts that people have expressed about him, I do not like to hear a guy who, while he played one season for us has never hidden the fact that he's a Jambo through and through, being praised by Hibs supporters for undermining the Hibs manager, which is what I consider him to have been doing on Sunday night.

People are praising him NOW because he said what they think - he's a great guy for agreeing with them.

Whether they and he are right or wrong still remains to be seen, but to say that Pat Fenlon's had 'two seasons' to turn things round and should be farther forward now isn't fair comment. He had the remit originally to keep us up - he kept us up. Last season was the first season when he could begin to plan constructively to take the team forward. The team showed an improvement over the season as a whole, while certain questions still remain.

This is his second full season, and it's only SIX games old. At Perth the team probably gave their best performance of the season so far, and the strikers PF signed both scored. In fact, Hibs could have won more comfortably if a couple of other good attempts had gone in.

I don't consider Stewart's summing-up to have been either fair or impartial.

Rant over. :devil:
Sorry but I totally disagree with the last part of your post. Just how long do you think this manager needs? Michael Stewart was talking about how a team like Hibs should be right up there challenging for places in the top half of the league, and he's TOTALLY CORRECT when he says that on the evidence so far Fenlon has not shown the ability to take us forward. And also contrary to you I considered Stewart's summing up was impartial and fair. Last season, from being top of the league we dropped right down into the bottom half of the league, and God knows what would have happened if Griffiths hadn't been there. As always I will be very glad indeed to be proved wrong, but right now I think you are.

[Andy74]

Sorry but I totally disagree with the last part of your post. Just how long do you think this manager needs? Michael Stewart was talking about how a team like Hibs should be right up there challenging for places in the top half of the league, and he's TOTALLY CORRECT when he says that on the evidence so far Fenlon has not shown the ability to take us forward. And also contrary to you I considered Stewart's summing up was impartial and fair. Last season, from being top of the league we dropped right down into the bottom half of the league, and God knows what would have happened if Griffiths hadn't been there. As always I will be very glad indeed to be proved wrong, but right now I think you are.

Forward is what we've done isn't it? 11th to 7th, four trips to Hampden.

As for challenging for places in the top half we were third for much of last year and are fifth just now.

We are looking for better of course and this team looks capable of it.

[Stevie Reid]

I do find it strange the regard in which many seem to hold Michael Stewart - yes he is articulate but that doesn't mean that he actually has anything interesting to say.

All in all, he's just as biased as all the other Yam pundits, albeit he sounds a wee bit less stupid.

[DarlingtonHibee]

No, I think they do a Saturday Sportsound "Extra", then a seperate Sunday one - maybe they will upload at the same time :thumbsup:

Sunday's on line podcast up - no sign of Saturday - wonder why ???

[Sir David Gray]

Sorry but I totally disagree with the last part of your post. Just how long do you think this manager needs? Michael Stewart was talking about how a team like Hibs should be right up there challenging for places in the top half of the league, and he's TOTALLY CORRECT when he says that on the evidence so far Fenlon has not shown the ability to take us forward. And also contrary to you I considered Stewart's summing up was impartial and fair. Last season, from being top of the league we dropped right down into the bottom half of the league, and God knows what would have happened if Griffiths hadn't been there. As always I will be very glad indeed to be proved wrong, but right now I think you are.

We were never likely to sustain our position at the top of the league last season. Given our start to the season, we should definitely have finished in the top six and it was very disappointing that we didn't achieve that, however teams like Inverness and Motherwell were much better than us.

I don't get why people continue to talk about what would have happened if we hadn't had Griffiths last year. Of course Leigh Griffiths was a massive player for us and I wish we still had him today but football's a team game and imagining what may or may not have happened in a game, if one player hadn't played in it, is just hypothetical. Who's to say that other players wouldn't have stepped up to the plate and played differently if Griffiths hadn't been there?

I think it's undeniable that he has/is taking us forward.

We finished 11th in 2011/12 at the end of his first season in charge. He then took us up to 7th last year, winning 18 more points than we had won the year before and, this year, we have a decent looking squad and potentially a really good pairing up front with Collins and Heffernan. We have a really good defensive record so far and we seem to be finally adding a bit of an attacking threat to our game as well.

I said from the beginning that I thought Fenlon required two years to sort us out and we're a couple of months short of that milestone. I even said after the Malmo and Hearts games that I wanted to see where we were by the end of 2013 before joining calls for Fenlon to go.

We're only a couple of points away from 3rd place and hopefully we can do well over the next few weeks, as we face a really tough run of games.

[MinceAndTatties]

I fail to see why Michael Stewart is getting pelters for giving his opinions on Hibs. As an ex-player and a pundit who is prepared to offer up more than the usual bland, anodyne comments relied upon by others, he should be applauded, even if you disagree with his opinions.

He pointed out that Hibs and other city clubs like Aberdeen have underperformed over a long period. Not much to take issue with there.
He feels Fenlon has underperformed in terms of results and quality of football given the time he has had as manager. Not a lot to argue about with the second point. Is he now harvesting the diligent planting of coaching seeds over the past 2 seasons? Or is he just lucky to get Jimmy Nicholl on board to get a relatively expensively assembled squad looking a bit like a team and shoring up the defence with a limited but effective experienced defender, Nelson ?

Stewart pointed to the absence of anything approaching a style of play throughout his tenure. I agree unless we are talking punt it forward asap, although we are starting to evolve to plan B, shuffling the ball across the field. As an example of how a managerial change can lead to a distinct new style of play quite quickly, then look no further than Stoke City.

I would add to the charge sheet, a lamentable failure to address imbalances in the squad, a pervasive lack of pace and willingness to go past players, an absence of quality at fullback which has led us to play a coach (Maybury) at right back or play Stevenson out of position there. Did anybody else wonder why Danny Grainger ended up at St Mirren ? Too many players (e.g. Done, Kujabi) brought in who were just not good enough. Too many one-paced midfielders, not enough game changers with pace or a trick. Mind you, Zoubir is a gem who just seems to glide past players. Maybe he should take a coaching session on dribbling.

Now that Nicholl is on board, I do not expect us to perform so badly that Fenlon gets the sack but please God, don't give him another contract . Even if he gets us to another Cup final, I would rather have Kenny Shiels who was sacked for using the bottom six games to bring through young players after having won a trophy. The Killie budget is miniscule by comparison to ours. The bigger issue is our inability to develop our own players. It used to be our proud boast that we did. There needs to be a John Park or a Dario Gradi as highly paid as the head coach who is entrusted with recruitment and player development so that we never end up with the wrong kind of player.

Yeh, I know. That will never happen with the kind of leadership this club has so the best we can hope for is a manager with the right football philosophy and coaching skills. I share Michael Stewart's belief that Fenlon does not have these.

[Jonnyboy]

I fail to see why Michael Stewart is getting pelters for giving his opinions on Hibs. As an ex-player and a pundit who is prepared to offer up more than the usual bland, anodyne comments relied upon by others, he should be applauded, even if you disagree with his opinions.

He pointed out that Hibs and other city clubs like Aberdeen have underperformed over a long period. Not much to take issue with there.
He feels Fenlon has underperformed in terms of results and quality of football given the time he has had as manager. Not a lot to argue about with the second point. Is he now harvesting the diligent planting of coaching seeds over the past 2 seasons? Or is he just lucky to get Jimmy Nicholl on board to get a relatively expensively assembled squad looking a bit like a team and shoring up the defence with a limited but effective experienced defender, Nelson ?

Stewart pointed to the absence of anything approaching a style of play throughout his tenure. I agree unless we are talking punt it forward asap, although we are starting to evolve to plan B, shuffling the ball across the field. As an example of how a managerial change can lead to a distinct new style of play quite quickly, then look no further than Stoke City.

I would add to the charge sheet, a lamentable failure to address imbalances in the squad, a pervasive lack of pace and willingness to go past players, an absence of quality at fullback which has led us to play a coach (Maybury) at right back or play Stevenson out of position there. Did anybody else wonder why Danny Grainger ended up at St Mirren ? Too many players (e.g. Done, Kujabi) brought in who were just not good enough. Too many one-paced midfielders, not enough game changers with pace or a trick. Mind you, Zoubir is a gem who just seems to glide past players. Maybe he should take a coaching session on dribbling.

Now that Nicholl is on board, I do not expect us to perform so badly that Fenlon gets the sack but please God, don't give him another contract . Even if he gets us to another Cup final, I would rather have Kenny Shiels who was sacked for using the bottom six games to bring through young players after having won a trophy. The Killie budget is miniscule by comparison to ours. The bigger issue is our inability to develop our own players. It used to be our proud boast that we did. There needs to be a John Park or a Dario Gradi as highly paid as the head coach who is entrusted with recruitment and player development so that we never end up with the wrong kind of player.

Yeh, I know. That will never happen with the kind of leadership this club has so the best we can hope for is a manager with the right football philosophy and coaching skills. I share Michael Stewart's belief that Fenlon does not have these.

Re the highlighted bits.

1. I'm delighted Grainger ended up at St Mirren because he's gash

2. Was Shiels not sacked because his contract demanded a top six finish and he missed out on the last day?

[Northernhibee]

If Pat has us top four this season I'd offer him a new contract - 11th to 7th to 4th would be great progress, and considering we'll have had at least four Hampden trips during his tenure that'd be very good indeed.

If it's fifth or sixth I'd take the style of pay into consideration, failing to make top six and it's a definate no contract IMO.

[Andy74]

I fail to see why Michael Stewart is getting pelters for giving his opinions on Hibs. As an ex-player and a pundit who is prepared to offer up more than the usual bland, anodyne comments relied upon by others, he should be applauded, even if you disagree with his opinions.

He pointed out that Hibs and other city clubs like Aberdeen have underperformed over a long period. Not much to take issue with there.
He feels Fenlon has underperformed in terms of results and quality of football given the time he has had as manager. Not a lot to argue about with the second point. Is he now harvesting the diligent planting of coaching seeds over the past 2 seasons? Or is he just lucky to get Jimmy Nicholl on board to get a relatively expensively assembled squad looking a bit like a team and shoring up the defence with a limited but effective experienced defender, Nelson ?

Stewart pointed to the absence of anything approaching a style of play throughout his tenure. I agree unless we are talking punt it forward asap, although we are starting to evolve to plan B, shuffling the ball across the field. As an example of how a managerial change can lead to a distinct new style of play quite quickly, then look no further than Stoke City.

I would add to the charge sheet, a lamentable failure to address imbalances in the squad, a pervasive lack of pace and willingness to go past players, an absence of quality at fullback which has led us to play a coach (Maybury) at right back or play Stevenson out of position there. Did anybody else wonder why Danny Grainger ended up at St Mirren ? Too many players (e.g. Done, Kujabi) brought in who were just not good enough. Too many one-paced midfielders, not enough game changers with pace or a trick. Mind you, Zoubir is a gem who just seems to glide past players. Maybe he should take a coaching session on dribbling.

Now that Nicholl is on board, I do not expect us to perform so badly that Fenlon gets the sack but please God, don't give him another contract . Even if he gets us to another Cup final, I would rather have Kenny Shiels who was sacked for using the bottom six games to bring through young players after having won a trophy. The Killie budget is miniscule by comparison to ours. The bigger issue is our inability to develop our own players. It used to be our proud boast that we did. There needs to be a John Park or a Dario Gradi as highly paid as the head coach who is entrusted with recruitment and player development so that we never end up with the wrong kind of player.

Yeh, I know. That will never happen with the kind of leadership this club has so the best we can hope for is a manager with the right football philosophy and coaching skills. I share Michael Stewart's belief that Fenlon does not have these.

The squad thing is harsh. He's had a whole squad to replace in his time here, twice really with the players we've also lost. We've also had pretty key players out injured.

He has addressed and identified the types of players we've needed all over the park.

The trickiest things was to get pace and creativity. We seem to have added some of that and the squad looms very strong.

It's fine for us to say what we need. He has agreed all along. It's another to be able to get them all here when you want them.

Fenlons coaching skills seem fine when you see the players who want to play for him again and he should get a lot of credit for sticking with and working with Griffiths to turn him into what he is today.

[matty_f]

I don't have an issue with Mikey Stewart holding and voicing his opinion about Pat Fenlon, I actually thought he made his point well. I do question why they're talking about Fenlon and managers losing the dressing room at a time where we are 5 games unbeaten, with back to back wins.
That was entirely inappropriate, imho.

[Northernhibee]

I don't have an issue with Mikey Stewart holding and voicing his opinion about Pat Fenlon, I actually thought he made his point well. I do question why they're talking about Fenlon and managers losing the dressing room at a time where we are 5 games unbeaten, with back to back wins.
That was entirely inappropriate, imho.

The correct journalistic questions regarding the last few days should be "What are the key differences made to the Hibs team?" as opposed to repeating over the same tired half-points - It'd be interesting to see what Michael 'Bawbag' Stewart has to say about the key difference between us now and us at the start of the season.

It's punditry at it's laziest.

[TheFamous1875]

The correct journalistic questions regarding the last few days should be "What are the key differences made to the Hibs team?" as opposed to repeating over the same tired half-points - It'd be interesting to see what Michael 'Bawbag' Stewart has to say about the key difference between us now and us at the start of the season.

It's punditry at it's laziest.

This.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I am articulate. That doesn't make me worth listening to.

Michael Stewart is a fud.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Say what you like about MS , but his analysis and views on the panel are spot on.. His opinion of Fenlon last night was spot on..
How can an opinion be spot on?

[JimBHibees]

I don't have an issue with Mikey Stewart holding and voicing his opinion about Pat Fenlon, I actually thought he made his point well. I do question why they're talking about Fenlon and managers losing the dressing room at a time where we are 5 games unbeaten, with back to back wins.
That was entirely inappropriate, imho.

Nail on head we are five games unbeaten and won our last 2 so on a good run. I actually found the show on Saturday unpalatable for the basic bullying of Danny Lennon with cheery Chick gagging on an announcement about a sacking otherwise there is no way he would have been at ER. It is a discussion point however it was IMO crass in the extreme. It was a fair enough point comparing Lennon and Fenlon however to then dissect Hibs with stories from 6 years back with Stewart (and that other Hibs loving Journo Keith Jackson (or Jacko as MS liked to call him) :rolleyes: while stating PF wasnt good enough was way out of order and to me wouldnt have happened about any (or very many) other Scottish clubs. Bottom line is many at BBC or their guests are very anti-Hibs and do appear to take a great delight in putting the boot into the club and manager.

[PatHead]

Nail on head we are five games unbeaten and won our last 2 so on a good run. I actually found the show on Saturday unpalatable for the basic bullying of Danny Lennon with cheery Chick gagging on an announcement about a sacking otherwise there is no way he would have been at ER. It is a discussion point however it was IMO crass in the extreme. It was a fair enough point comparing Lennon and Fenlon however to then dissect Hibs with stories from 6 years back with Stewart (and that other Hibs loving Journo Keith Jackson (or Jacko as MS liked to call him) :rolleyes: while stating PF wasnt good enough was way out of order and to me wouldnt have happened about any (or very many) other Scottish clubs. Bottom line is many at BBC or their guests are very anti-Hibs and do appear to take a great delight in putting the boot into the club and manager.

Not only the BBC, (though they are probably the worst) the Scotsman and Evening News also take great delight in pointing out any Hibs "problems" whilst highlighting the very few positives at Tynecastle with "bigging up" non stories. Look how they got into a lather about painting the white steps...........Really feel Hibs should ban press from Easter Road until they start treating us in an equal manner. Make our main press releases through internet media and sites like .net, bounce etc. The one exception should be Alan Preston who should be banned for life.

[--------]

Sorry but I totally disagree with the last part of your post. Just how long do you think this manager needs? Michael Stewart was talking about how a team like Hibs should be right up there challenging for places in the top half of the league, and he's TOTALLY CORRECT when he says that on the evidence so far Fenlon has not shown the ability to take us forward. And also contrary to you I considered Stewart's summing up was impartial and fair. Last season, from being top of the league we dropped right down into the bottom half of the league, and God knows what would have happened if Griffiths hadn't been there. As always I will be very glad indeed to be proved wrong, but right now I think you are.


You're welcome to your opinion. I think you've already had your answer from a number of other posters on this thread.

In the present state of Scottish football of course Hibs should be challenging for a place in the top 6 of the top tier. I do think you and many others are underestimating the gravity of the situation Pat Fenlon inherited from Calderwood and ignoring the possibility that the root of the ongoing problems at ER might just lie farther up the corporate pyramid - somewhere in the boardroom, perhaps?

And it certainly isn't impartial and fair to suggest that PF has had "two seasons" to sort things out. As I already posted, he came in at a time when the one and only priority was to keep the team in the top division - which he did. Last season was the first season in which he could actively begin to rebuild the squad; this is his second full season, and we've only played 7 games of it.

Maybe someone could tell us if there's another senior football club in the UK which has appointed and sacked more managers than Hibs since 2001? Because I don't know of one, and I really don't see what throwing the club and team into farther disarray by sacking another manager would achieve.

And it's not about the guy being a Jambo, either. I watched the programme last night and I thought that Craig Gordon and Stu Lovell were good - and genuinely impartial about all the games they commented on.

I really wonder how Stewart would have dealt with the Ross County result, though. It's a pity he wasn't on - maybe he was asked and declined?

Going by some of the latest posts in this thread, the creep was at it again this weekend?

[Northernhibee]

Not only the BBC, (though they are probably the worst) the Scotsman and Evening News also take great delight in pointing out any Hibs "problems" whilst highlighting the very few positives at Tynecastle with "bigging up" non stories. Look how they got into a lather about painting the white steps...........Really feel Hibs should ban press from Easter Road until they start treating us in an equal manner. Make our main press releases through internet media and sites like .net, bounce etc. The one exception should be Alan Preston who should be banned for life.

I mind Alan Preston a few weeks back mocking PF for playing Lewis at RB (Apparently you're okay playing a rb at lb but it doesn't work the other way round - it's the same thing you roaster) and ten minutes later saying how good his perfomance was.

Total, total melter.

[KeithTheHibby]

I mind Alan Preston a few weeks back mocking PF for playing Lewis at RB (Apparently you're okay playing a rb at lb but it doesn't work the other way round - it's the same thing you roaster) and ten minutes later saying how good his perfomance was.

Total, total melter.


Preston is thick as **** and best ignored. How he has a job in the media is staggering.

[PatHead]

Preston is thick as **** and best ignored. How he has a job in the media is staggering.

Add Barry Ferguson's brother to that. He can't describe anything, put a point across or add anything to the programme.

[MinceAndTatties]

You're welcome to your opinion. I think you've already had your answer from a number of other posters on this thread.

In the present state of Scottish football of course Hibs should be challenging for a place in the top 6 of the top tier. I do think you and many others are underestimating the gravity of the situation Pat Fenlon inherited from Calderwood and ignoring the possibility that the root of the ongoing problems at ER might just lie farther up the corporate pyramid - somewhere in the boardroom, perhaps?

And it certainly isn't impartial and fair to suggest that PF has had "two seasons" to sort things out. As I already posted, he came in at a time when the one and only priority was to keep the team in the top division - which he did. Last season was the first season in which he could actively begin to rebuild the squad; this is his second full season, and we've only played 7 games of it.

Maybe someone could tell us if there's another senior football club in the UK which has appointed and sacked more managers than Hibs since 2001? Because I don't know of one, and I really don't see what throwing the club and team into farther disarray by sacking another manager would achieve.
And it's not about the guy being a Jambo, either. I watched the programme last night and I thought that Craig Gordon and Stu Lovell were good - and genuinely impartial about all the games they commented on.

I really wonder how Stewart would have dealt with the Ross County result, though. It's a pity he wasn't on - maybe he was asked and declined?

Going by some of the latest posts in this thread, the creep was at it again this weekend?

I can't believe you found Gordon and Lovell good. There was a fog of blandness and statements of the bleeding obvious. No insights of any kind were forthcoming. It may not make a difference to you that Stewart is a Jambo but other posters simply calling him an erse or a fud or you calling him a creep betray a strong emotional reaction. I do feel that he should be judged over time by his performance on all games including Hearts games. I would like to see him on every week to see if he is similarly trenchant and interesting in his opinions of other SPL clubs or as some seem to believe he has an anti-Hibs agenda/grudge. I happen to believe he is right about Fenlon. Not many seem to notice that the upturn in results has happened with Jimmy Nicholl on board.

[weecounty hibby]

I can't believe you found Gordon and Lovell good. There was a fog of blandness and statements of the bleeding obvious. No insights of any kind were forthcoming. It may not make a difference to you that Stewart is a Jambo but other posters simply calling him an erse or a fud or you calling him a creep betray a strong emotional reaction. I do feel that he should be judged over time by his performance on all games including Hearts games. I would like to see him on every week to see if he is similarly trenchant and interesting in his opinions of other SPL clubs or as some seem to believe he has an anti-Hibs agenda/grudge. I happen to believe he is right about Fenlon. Not many seem to notice that the upturn in results has happened with Jimmy Nicholl on board.
I think statements about the PF/JN partnership like the one you type are a huge disservice to Pat. Maybe they are good together. Hopefully a Clough/ Taylor type partnership in the making. If it is all down to JN why has he never been a successful manager in his own right? And i can only assume that Pat had some say in letting O'Brian leave and bringing JN in. Seems a smart move by him don't you think?

[MinceAndTatties]

I think statements about the PF/JN partnership like the one you type are a huge disservice to Pat. Maybe they are good together. Hopefully a Clough/ Taylor type partnership in the making. If it is all down to JN why has he never been a successful manager in his own right? And i can only assume that Pat had some say in letting O'Brian leave and bringing JN in. Seems a smart move by him don't you think?

It is not a disservice to Pat to point out that things have improved since Jimmy Nicholl arrived. It may indeed be a partnership made in heaven, each bringing something to the table. We can only hope that is the case. BTW Nicholl has been a successful manager with Raith Rovers winning the League Cup as well as winning the same trophy as assistant with Killie. I suspect we would not lose much if Pat left but it could well be that Nicholl is a better assistant and possible future contender for a Player development/recruitment director if we ever had the courage to change the manager role to head coach.

[Hibiza]

3rd rate player. 5th rate pundit. merde stirrer extrodinaire.:flag:

[Hibiza]

micheal stewart is a camels dung heap.

[hibbeedavid]

Just listened to the Podcast and can't argue with anything MS said regarding Fenlon,

Things have improved in the last 5 games but I can't see Fenlon being at Hibs long term,

with the absence of Rangers in the top flight we will never have a better time to step up to the plate and go for 2nd which I can't see us doing at all, I think in 5 years time when we look back at what a missed opportunity it was and will think of what could have been

The St Mirren performance was good, but at the same time St Mirren are one of the worst sides to come to ER in the league in memory, we always seem to be a couple of games from a crisis if we lose one and don't have the mentality to stay strong

Mowbray and Collins used to go on about the 'footballing philosophy' which no longer happens and let's face it the vast majority of football under Fenlon has been pretty turgid and last season if we didn't have Griffiths he would have been sacked already IMO

I can see the board just getting by this season then letting his contract expire

[clerriehibs]

Just listened to the Podcast and can't argue with anything MS said regarding Fenlon,

Things have improved in the last 5 games but I can't see Fenlon being at Hibs long term,

with the absence of Rangers in the top flight we will never have a better time to step up to the plate and go for 2nd which I can't see us doing at all, I think in 5 years time when we look back at what a missed opportunity it was and will think of what could have been

The St Mirren performance was good, but at the same time St Mirren are one of the worst sides to come to ER in the league in memory, we always seem to be a couple of games from a crisis if we lose one and don't have the mentality to stay strong

Mowbray and Collins used to go on about the 'footballing philosophy' which no longer happens and let's face it the vast majority of football under Fenlon has been pretty turgid and last season if we didn't have Griffiths he would have been sacked already IMO

I can see the board just getting by this season then letting his contract expire

We're now unbeaten in 5.

Fenlon took us forward last season.

We were unbeaten in 5 v the cheats last season, and they only fluked a win v us this season.

The team is starting to look very well balanced, with a very entertaining prospect, zoubir, here on loan.

We're now top 6, and starting to look good, after a ropey start.

You decry a decent spell for us, by pointing out a far shorter bad apell.

**** knows what you want, other than a rubber sheet on your bed, but you better start writing to Santa.

[Thecat23]

We're now unbeaten in 5.

Fenlon took us forward last season.

We were unbeaten in 5 v the cheats last season, and they only fluked a win v us this season.

The team is starting to look very well balanced, with a very entertaining prospect, zoubir, here on loan.

We're now top 6, and starting to look good, after a ropey start.

You decry a decent spell for us, by pointing out a far shorter bad apell.

**** knows what you want, other than a rubber sheet on your bed, but you better start writing to Santa.

Bit harsh no? He's only stating things that is pretty honest. It's great we are unbeaten in 5 though, but we haven't really had a good test in that time. All bottom six teams as it stands. Be interesting to see how we do against the dons or ICT.

I I'm 100% sure Fenlon won't get his contract renewed either. Also saying Hearts "fluked" it isn't true either. Out the two teams that day Hearts were better. We only started to play just before they scored. Anyway think calling other supporters "bed wetters" is ridiculous considering pretty much the way we started and have played under Fenlon with the exception of a few wins.

[clerriehibs]

Bit harsh no? He's only stating things that is pretty honest. It's great we are unbeaten in 5 though, but we haven't really had a good test in that time. All bottom six teams as it stands. Be interesting to see how we do against the dons or ICT.

I I'm 100% sure Fenlon won't get his contract renewed either. Also saying Hearts "fluked" it isn't true either. Out the two teams that day Hearts were better. We only started to play just before they scored. Anyway think calling other supporters "bed wetters" is ridiculous considering pretty much the way we started and have played under Fenlon with the exception of a few wins.

No, it's not harsh.

Se Malmo aside; they're a good team, mid-season.

We lost the 1st 2 league games, unlucky v. 'well, and homfc fluked their win.

Then 3 draws and 2 wins during which we've gone from bad to pretty decent.

That's 7 league games on very much improving performances.

I think we'll cement top 6 and be challenging for europe; which I admit is of as much value an opinion as the guy saying Fenlon will be let go because he's not good enough.

But I'd rather be positively posting about Hibs than the tedious "it's not good enough, Fenlon must go" based on a few (2 or 3) league games. Because persistently calling for his head works wonders, doesn't it, for team moral etc?

And if calling for someone's head after 2 or 3 bad games, and then persisiting with it through a 2 or 3 game good spell, isn't the sign of a bed-wetter, then I don't know what is.

[Thecat23]

No, it's not harsh.

Se Malmo aside; they're a good team, mid-season.

We lost the 1st 2 league games, unlucky v. 'well, and homfc fluked their win.

Then 3 draws and 2 wins during which we've gone from bad to pretty decent.

That's 7 league games on very much improving performances.

I think we'll cement top 6 and be challenging for europe; which I admit is of as much value an opinion as the guy saying Fenlon will be let go because he's not good enough.

But I'd rather be positively posting about Hibs than the tedious "it's not good enough, Fenlon must go" based on a few (2 or 3) league games. Because persistently calling for his head works wonders, doesn't it, for team moral etc?

And if calling for someone's head after 2 or 3 bad games, and then persisiting with it through a 2 or 3 game good spell, isn't the sign of a bed-wetter, then I don't know what is.

I agree with a few of the points you made. But also agree with a few the other poster made. It wasn't over 3 games though think the way his style has been since he took over. I really hope he can turn it round and prove he does have what it takes to be a Hibs manager.

Personally I don't think after this season he will get another contract based on crowds dropping like a stone. Even if he does do well it will take something special to get the fans back we lost after that cup final. And believe me it's clear there are many who won't be back till he goes.

Either way I'll be backing the team 100% and hoping we continue this run.

[clerriehibs]

I agree with a few of the points you made. But also agree with a few the other poster made. It wasn't over 3 games though think the way his style has been since he took over. I really hope he can turn it round and prove he does have what it takes to be a Hibs manager.

Personally I don't think after this season he will get another contract based on crowds dropping like a stone. Even if he does do well it will take something special to get the fans back we lost after that cup final. And believe me it's clear there are many who won't be back till he goes.

Either way I'll be backing the team 100% and hoping we continue this run.

mibbes aye, mibbes naw.

But we WERE in a cup final. And then another one. Is that abject failure? I'm glad we had those games. Would it be better to have had a manager that HADN'T taken us to Scottish Cup finals in consecutive years?

[Thecat23]

mibbes aye, mibbes naw.

But we WERE in a cup final. And then another one. Is that abject failure? I'm glad we had those games. Would it be better to have had a manager that HADN'T taken us to Scottish Cup finals in consecutive years?

If I knew we would be skelped 5-1 from Hearts in the final sorry if rather be knocked out thanks. Any Hibs fan who says other wise I think is lying. Also yes it is failure, failure to not win a cup is exactly that no matter how far you got.

[Andy74]

If I knew we would be skelped 5-1 from Hearts in the final sorry if rather be knocked out thanks. Any Hibs fan who says other wise I think is lying. Also yes it is failure, failure to not win a cup is exactly that no matter how far you got.

It's a failure to win the cup, sure. But is it failure in terms of a Hibs manager's job? No, it certainly isn't.

I think we've been to three Scottish Cup finals since I've been old enough to go. Around thirty years. Two have been in the last couple of years.

[hibbeedavid]

We're now unbeaten in 5.

Fenlon took us forward last season.

We were unbeaten in 5 v the cheats last season, and they only fluked a win v us this season.

The team is starting to look very well balanced, with a very entertaining prospect, zoubir, here on loan.

We're now top 6, and starting to look good, after a ropey start.

You decry a decent spell for us, by pointing out a far shorter bad apell.

**** knows what you want, other than a rubber sheet on your bed, but you better start writing to Santa.

I'll give you that last season we went forward, however forward enough? Given that there was no Rangers and Hearts had drastically cut back, last season with the squad we had top 5 should have been easily attainable

Unbeaten in 5 against Hearts, yes it's progress but again they weren't half the team they were the previous season and after the utter humiliation of 5-1 I should hope we went unbeaten against them, and to lose against their youth team this season was unforgivable, fluke or not, we should be good enough to knuckle down and beat them, but instead we run scared and have a nightmare

Again the performance on Saturday was good but it doesn't reflect Fenlon's tenure, the previous game at home game v Ross County was worse than watching paint dry and it's not been an isolated incident, if we play like we did on Saturday every week I'll be delighted, just based on the evidence of 2 seasons of Fenlon I can't see it lasting

In my eyes the 'top 6' is a false achievement, and especially given the squad we have, which I think is a very good one, we should be aiming for a minimum of 4th no excuses

We have good experienced SP(F)L level players in Liam Craig, Paul Heffernan, Scott Robertson, James McPake etc. coupled with, in my opinion the best midfielder in the league outside of Celtic in Kevin Thomson so I think anything below 5th at the end of the season would be total failure

I think because the past 5 years have been totally shambolic on the pitch we've come to see mediocrity as success

I'm definitely not a bed wetter as my view on Fenlon has been based on his 2 years in charge and we've went forward, just not forward enough,

[--------]

Just listened to the Podcast and can't argue with anything MS said regarding Fenlon,

Things have improved in the last 5 games but I can't see Fenlon being at Hibs long term,

with the absence of Rangers in the top flight we will never have a better time to step up to the plate and go for 2nd which I can't see us doing at all, I think in 5 years time when we look back at what a missed opportunity it was and will think of what could have been

The St Mirren performance was good, but at the same time St Mirren are one of the worst sides to come to ER in the league in memory, we always seem to be a couple of games from a crisis if we lose one and don't have the mentality to stay strong

Mowbray and Collins used to go on about the 'footballing philosophy' which no longer happens and let's face it the vast majority of football under Fenlon has been pretty turgid and last season if we didn't have Griffiths he would have been sacked already IMO

I can see the board just getting by this season then letting his contract expire


Going on about one's "football philosophy" isn't necessarily a sign of a good manager, surely? And it hasn't done Mowbray much good either at Celtic or at Middlesbrough, as far as I can see. And Collins is no longer in football management. FWIW, I would suggest that a sensible manager lets his team do the talking on the field and doesn't share with all and sundry how he wants his team to play. Hughes was another motor-mouth, IIRC, only his philosophy was more of the "homespun" variety.

The principle still stands, however - talk's cheap.

I come back to the fact that since the year 2000 we've had McLeish, Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and now Fenlon as manager. Thirteen years, nine managers. Sooner or later we're going to have to settle down and let someone actually do the job - PF hasn't been here two years yet. There are very few instant fixes in football - I've been around long enough to know that for fact.

[Thecat23]

It's a failure to win the cup, sure. But is it failure in terms of a Hibs manager's job? No, it certainly isn't.

I think we've been to three Scottish Cup finals since I've been old enough to go. Around thirty years. Two have been in the last couple of years.

He done well to get there granted. To do it in 2 successive seasons was also very well done. However it did paper over the cracks of how the team were playing Andy.

Like I say, come end of the season I think the ones who doubted Fenlon and his ability to take us forward will be proved correct as he won't be offered a new deal. Until then I'll continue to back the team and hope he does well.

[JimBHibees]

Going on about one's "football philosophy" isn't necessarily a sign of a good manager, surely? And it hasn't done Mowbray much good either at Celtic or at Middlesbrough, as far as I can see. And Collins is no longer in football management. FWIW, I would suggest that a sensible manager lets his team do the talking on the field and doesn't share with all and sundry how he wants his team to play. Hughes was another motor-mouth, IIRC, only his philosophy was more of the "homespun" variety.

The principle still stands, however - talk's cheap.

I come back to the fact that since the year 2000 we've had McLeish, Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and now Fenlon as manager. Thirteen years, nine managers. Sooner or later we're going to have to settle down and let someone actually do the job - PF hasn't been here two years yet. There are very few instant fixes in football - I've been around long enough to know that for fact.

Completely agree.

[hibbeedavid]

Going on about one's "football philosophy" isn't necessarily a sign of a good manager, surely? And it hasn't done Mowbray much good either at Celtic or at Middlesbrough, as far as I can see. And Collins is no longer in football management. FWIW, I would suggest that a sensible manager lets his team do the talking on the field and doesn't share with all and sundry how he wants his team to play. Hughes was another motor-mouth, IIRC, only his philosophy was more of the "homespun" variety.

The principle still stands, however - talk's cheap.

I come back to the fact that since the year 2000 we've had McLeish, Sauzee, Williamson, Mowbray, Collins, Paatelainen, Hughes, Calderwood and now Fenlon as manager. Thirteen years, nine managers. Sooner or later we're going to have to settle down and let someone actually do the job - PF hasn't been here two years yet. There are very few instant fixes in football - I've been around long enough to know that for fact.

I know where your coming from, talk is cheap, however based on Fenlon's tenure so far, the football has been pretty awful, fair enough if from now on the team play each week like they did on Sat, I just don't have the faith that they will,


I would love to be proved wrong, I do like Pat Fenlon, I'm just not convinced he has what it takes to take the club to where it should be

Granted the state the club is in isn't only Pat's fault, it's been going badly wrong since Yogi was in charge but Pat's job description will be to take the club back to the top 6 which should have been achievable last season and should be bettered this year

[Pedantic_Hibee]

He done well to get there granted. To do it in 2 successive seasons was also very well done. However it did paper over the cracks of how the team were playing Andy.

Like I say, come end of the season I think the ones who doubted Fenlon and his ability to take us forward will be proved correct as he won't be offered a new deal. Until then I'll continue to back the team and hope he does well.

Have you been told he won't be offered a new deal or is it just your thoughts?

[Onion]

Have you been told he won't be offered a new deal or is it just your thoughts?

There is little to no chance of Fenlon getting a new deal at Hibs. Only a famous SC win or 2nd in the league would give him that option.

Fenlon is an accident waiting to happen. It's just our natural (blind) hope and optimism that sees the last 2 wins as possibly something different. Sadly, Fenlon is still a poor quality football manager who is constantly 1 or 2 defeats away from confirm that.

[The Sea-gull]

He done well to get there granted. To do it in 2 successive seasons was also very well done. However it did paper over the cracks of how the team were playing Andy.

Like I say, come end of the season I think the ones who doubted Fenlon and his ability to take us forward will be proved correct as he won't be offered a new deal. Until then I'll continue to back the team and hope he does well.

I'm not in the know or anything like that but my hunch is that no decision will have been taken at board room level about Pat's future just now.

I honestly think that no top 6 will equal no new contract (unless he gets us to another cup final and wins it). Simple as that and quite rightly. By then he'll have had enough time and that would be enough proof of whether he is up to it or not.

If we make the top 6 then he will get a new deal unless we make the top 6 by the skin of our teeth and perform badly in the last 5 games. The board is too stubborn to get rid of Pat if he shows even the slightest hint of progress and in a way, as long as he is progressing year on year then keeping him is justifiable.

Unless he we have a wonderous season then I would be tempted just to give him a year at a time until he proves he can achieve year after year on a consistent basis.

If we don't make the top 6 and are out of the cup then I could see him going before the end of the season in order to give a new man a bit of time to get stuck into the place ala the Craig Brown/Derek McInnes situation at Aberdeen towards the end of last season.

[weecounty hibby]

What i dont get is the talk about how boring we have been to watch and how PF should go because of that. Would folk be happier if we went out played 5 strikers got beat every week and got relegated. He did what was necessary with the personnel at his disposal. PF has now had a few transfer wingows behind him and looks like he has a bit of ballance now. We cant keep on firing managers every 18 months and some stability. I really believe Pat can bring us some success and decent football

[hibbeedavid]

What i dont get is the talk about how boring we have been to watch and how PF should go because of that. Would folk be happier if we went out played 5 strikers got beat every week and got relegated. He did what was necessary with the personnel at his disposal. PF has now had a few transfer wingows behind him and looks like he has a bit of ballance now. We cant keep on firing managers every 18 months and some stability. I really believe Pat can bring us some success and decent football

The problem is that for large parts of last season we played awful football and would have been in major relegation trouble if it wasn't for Leigh

Fingers crossed its onwards and upwards

[clerriehibs]

There is little to no chance of Fenlon getting a new deal at Hibs. Only a famous SC win or 2nd in the league would give him that option.

Fenlon is an accident waiting to happen. It's just our natural (blind) hope and optimism that sees the last 2 wins as possibly something different. Sadly, Fenlon is still a poor quality football manager who is constantly 1 or 2 defeats away from confirm that.

So should he lose the next game after an unbeaten 5 he's confirmed as a crap manager ... in your book.

[Thecat23]

Have you been told he won't be offered a new deal or is it just your thoughts?

100% my own thoughts. No rumours or stuff like that. I just don't think Petrie will renew due to the amount of fans we have lost.

[Thecat23]

I'm not in the know or anything like that but my hunch is that no decision will have been taken at board room level about Pat's future just now.

I honestly think that no top 6 will equal no new contract (unless he gets us to another cup final and wins it). Simple as that and quite rightly. By then he'll have had enough time and that would be enough proof of whether he is up to it or not.

If we make the top 6 then he will get a new deal unless we make the top 6 by the skin of our teeth and perform badly in the last 5 games. The board is too stubborn to get rid of Pat if he shows even the slightest hint of progress and in a way, as long as he is progressing year on year then keeping him is justifiable.

Unless he we have a wonderous season then I would be tempted just to give him a year at a time until he proves he can achieve year after year on a consistent basis.

If we don't make the top 6 and are out of the cup then I could see him going before the end of the season in order to give a new man a bit of time to get stuck into the place ala the Craig Brown/Derek McInnes situation at Aberdeen towards the end of last season.

Hard to argue with that. I know what you mean about the board being stubborn and they could offer a rolling year one if he makes top 4 I'd say. Anything less is failure in my book.

[ronaldo7]

If he makes a cup final and gets us top 4, he'll get a rolling 1 year contract.

If he wins a cup and gets top 4, he'll get longer. imo

[hibbeedavid]

If he makes a cup final and gets us top 4, he'll get a rolling 1 year contract.

If he wins a cup and gets top 4, he'll get longer. imo

If he wins a cup and gets 4th he can have the freedom of the city never mind just a new contract!

[Miguel]

From what I have seen during his tenure,
Pat has a decent eye for a player and knows where we have to strengthen and get to. But I'm not sure he has enough in his tool kit to get us there, in that he falls short in motivational ability - maybe Nicholl is handling that - and in tactical awareness. At this level, you would have to get really lucky to have a manager who possesses all these skills. We should now fully support him until the end of the season and his contract and then see where we go from there.
IMHO, you can laugh at folk who talk about footballing philosophies, but that's exactly what we need: a young manager who has a vision of how the game should be played and knows how to get players to equip themselves with the skills set and lifestyle to move to another level.
Football has become a business, but also a science: I'd love to see us become a pioneer in backward Scotland of embracing that idea.
On another note, I see that 'Sportsound' was at it Gain tonight: in Chick Hun's opinion, Granny Danger shouldn't have been sent off on Saturday and Maybury should have been booked. It was, to be fair, pointed out to him that Maybury had been booked and maybe he should have noticed that as he was covering the match. Then, he opines that the League Cup winners should get a Euro spot rather than the 'Scottish' runners-up, which again seems fair as a general rule of thumb, but he justified his view by claiming St Mirren would have done a better job than Hibs.

[jacomo]

From what I have seen during his tenure,
Pat has a decent eye for a player and knows where we have to strengthen and get to. But I'm not sure he has enough in his tool kit to get us there, in that he falls short in motivational ability - maybe Nicholl is handling that - and in tactical awareness. At this level, you would have to get really lucky to have a manager who possesses all these skills. We should now fully support him until the end of the season and his contract and then see where we go from there.
IMHO, you can laugh at folk who talk about footballing philosophies, but that's exactly what we need: a young manager who has a vision of how the game should be played and knows how to get players to equip themselves with the skills set and lifestyle to move to another level.
Football has become a business, but also a science: I'd love to see us become a pioneer in backward Scotland of embracing that idea.
On another note, I see that 'Sportsound' was at it Gain tonight: in Chick Hun's opinion, Granny Danger shouldn't have been sent off on Saturday and Maybury should have been booked. It was, to be fair, pointed out to him that Maybury had been booked and maybe he should have noticed that as he was covering the match. Then, he opines that the League Cup winners should get a Euro spot rather than the 'Scottish' runners-up, which again seems fair as a general rule of thumb, but he justified his view by claiming St Mirren would have done a better job than Hibs.

Frankly, it's hard to see how anyone could have done a worse job than Hibs.

[jacomo]

There is little to no chance of Fenlon getting a new deal at Hibs. Only a famous SC win or 2nd in the league would give him that option.

Fenlon is an accident waiting to happen. It's just our natural (blind) hope and optimism that sees the last 2 wins as possibly something different. Sadly, Fenlon is still a poor quality football manager who is constantly 1 or 2 defeats away from confirm that.

Sadly, I agree with this. Despite the overhaul in personnel and the rallying cries from Fenlon, McPake etc there is still an underlying fragility at Hibs. Any team can lose matches (look at Celtc last night) but we make a habit of just not turning up. At all.

We will probably hold the record for the worst performance by a Scottish club in European competition for a very long time.

[clerriehibs]

Sadly, I agree with this. Despite the overhaul in personnel and the rallying cries from Fenlon, McPake etc there is still an underlying fragility at Hibs. Any team can lose matches (look at Celtc last night) but we make a habit of just not turning up. At all.

We will probably hold the record for the worst performance by a Scottish club in European competition for a very long time.

So what? We can't change that. Get over it. The team appear to be doing so, wish the fans could quit the grumble groan when things are going well for us.

[Sergio sledge]

Frankly, it's hard to see how anyone could have done a worse job than Hibs.

Except maybe the team that is by far the worst in the league so far this season who've got a worse defensive record (goals per game) than we do this season?

[Andy74]

Frankly, it's hard to see how anyone could have done a worse job than Hibs.

Quite possibly all the teams below us? It happended, move on, it has nothing to do with where we are now.

[jacomo]

Except maybe the team that is by far the worst in the league so far this season who've got a worse defensive record (goals per game) than we do this season?

I doubt even St Mirren would have been gubbed 9-0 by Malmo.


Quite possibly all the teams below us? It happended, move on, it has nothing to do with where we are now.

We have definitely improved since then, mostly through signing several new players, but dismissing the Malmo result as having 'nothing to do' with our current situation is plain weird. I'm of the view that this season started with the first competitive fixture - and that happened to be the Europa league tie. Pretending it didn't happen fools no one.

[Andy74]

I doubt even St Mirren would have been gubbed 9-0 by Malmo.



We have definitely improved since then, mostly through signing several new players, but dismissing the Malmo result as having 'nothing to do' with our current situation is plain weird. I'm of the view that this season started with the first competitive fixture - and that happened to be the Europa league tie. Pretending it didn't happen fools no one.

I said quite clearly it happened.

I don't see the need to harp on about it daily though but bash on.

[jacomo]

I said quite clearly it happened.

I don't see the need to harp on about it daily though but bash on.

We're discussing whether or not Fenlon should be offered a new contract at the end of the season. The results we achieve this season in all competitions are relevant to that discussion, are they not?

I can't bear this attitude that somehow the Malmo games don't count for anything. What is the point of trying to qualify for Europe then?