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View Full Version : Fenlon must go!



beensaidbefore
14-09-2013, 10:39 PM
:greengrin Or should he?

Has there been a significant enough improvement over the last few games to give him more time, or do those who wanted rid stand by that?

Andy74
14-09-2013, 10:48 PM
Have we only lost 2 of our last 12 league games or something? Not really sacking form.

Onceinawhile
14-09-2013, 10:49 PM
At the moment, we are top 6 and haven't lost in four games. In addition to that, those at the game seem to suggest we played football today. When you consider our captain has been out as well as our (imo) two most creative players (Cairney and Harris) then he is doing an ok job.

Certainly wouldn't deserve the sack at the moment. Beating St. Mirren and taking something from inverness would IMO cement that.

rcarter1
14-09-2013, 10:50 PM
I concede that I was one of the 95%, but in fairness, I think that he is still learning about Football at this level. In Ireland he used his budget to get the best players and then get them to do the business on the park. The fineries of where to have pace, and whatnot may have been less relevant - by virtue that he had bought the better players for that league. In amongst the scrap that is the SPFL (bar Celtic), a manager needs a bit more nouse to succeed. If he learns how to build a balanced team, then I think he has the determination and desire to get the team to perform. If he can let go of defensive strategies, hopefully the goals, and results will come - in a fashion that the supporters can identify with. By all accounts he is very committed to the youth development, and I am definitely back in the camp of hoping that he does succeed.

beensaidbefore
14-09-2013, 11:08 PM
Im pleasantly surprised to hear your comments. I think part of the problem over the last few years is we have been too quick to get rid when were not winning every week, or at least to 'Mowbray standard'. Would love to think this is the season where Fenlon is able to manage the club to some kind of success. i.e. cup win or europe through the league.

Hopefully the majority feel the same and folk get off his back a bit, which may also help the team to play without fear of being booed by their own fans.

beensaidbefore
14-09-2013, 11:16 PM
At the moment, we are top 6 and haven't lost in four games. In addition to that, those at the game seem to suggest we played football today. When you consider our captain has been out as well as our (imo) two most creative players (Cairney and Harris) then he is doing an ok job.

Certainly wouldn't deserve the sack at the moment. Beating St. Mirren and taking something from inverness would IMO cement that.

Meant to say in my other reply.

I see this as being the real test for the team. Inverness are the team to beat at the moment, if we were the first to beat them this season, it would be a real boost for the confidence of the team, imo. It would also send a message to the other teams, and possibly provide psychological edge for the team.

Eyrie
15-09-2013, 08:18 AM
I wanted Fenlon out after the Yams game because we'd not only gone backwards from the Motherwell match but done so against opponents who were there for the taking. If Fenlon can turn things around, showing improved tactics and flexibility then he will have answered my concerns. Too early to say that he has though.

Fraz1875
15-09-2013, 09:14 AM
Meant to say in my other reply.

I see this as being the real test for the team. Inverness are the team to beat at the moment, if we were the first to beat them this season, it would be a real boost for the confidence of the team, imo. It would also send a message to the other teams, and possibly provide psychological edge for the team.
An ever bigger game coming up this weekend. Can we beat a struggling StMirren side with a single point all season. These are the games we must be picking up three points

Onion
15-09-2013, 09:40 AM
:greengrin Or should he?

Has there been a significant enough improvement over the last few games to give him more time, or do those who wanted rid stand by that?

The last few weeks has proven that only Petrie's view matters, what the rest of us think is immaterial. A couple of away wins to a poor Killie and surprised St J has bought Fenlon more time, but anyone thinking that somehow Fenlon has morphed into a manager overnight or this team has grown a set just needs to think back 2 weeks to the last home game.. and the one before that.... So, sadly we're stuck with this clown and will plod along losing the many matches we should be winning and winning the odd (away) game where least expected. Playing at home next weeek against the worst team in the SPL is a real test of this team's bottle :cb

neil7908
15-09-2013, 10:00 AM
I wanted Fenlon out after the Yams game because we'd not only gone backwards from the Motherwell match but done so against opponents who were there for the taking. If Fenlon can turn things around, showing improved tactics and flexibility then he will have answered my concerns. Too early to say that he has though.

100%. I've never hurled abuse at the guy or said a bad word about him. I've never booed the team off. I've just repeated on here what 95% of Hibs fan felt after the Hearts game - the guy is out if his depth and the team were playing woeful football. Whether a new manager would have being doing better than Pat is something we'll never know.

He has now definitely bought himself more time and as always in football, winning matches is vital. But more than how we win those games is key.

I went along to the Ross County game with a quiet hope and confidence that we were beginning to go in the right direction so the performance (that hurt me more than the result itself) left me feeling pretty deflated.

Very little doubt that St Mirren are currently the worst performing team in the SPL. That doesnt mean I expect us to go out and put 3-4 goals past them. What I'm looking to see is the kind of performance following on from the 2nd half at St Johnstone. Controlling the game, passing the ball, chances being created and a team that begins to look like they know what they are doing.

Even if we draw with St Mirren, how we go out our football is what matters to me. If Pat can get us creating chances and passing the ball on the deck, then the results and fans will come.

exHIBition
15-09-2013, 10:30 AM
The last few weeks has proven that only Petrie's view matters, what the rest of us think is immaterial. A couple of away wins to a poor Killie and surprised St J has bought Fenlon more time, but anyone thinking that somehow Fenlon has morphed into a manager overnight or this team has grown a set just needs to think back 2 weeks to the last home game.. and the one before that.... So, sadly we're stuck with this clown and will plod along losing the many matches we should be winning and winning the odd (away) game where least expected. Playing at home next weeek against the worst team in the SPL is a real test of this team's bottle :cb

When the team are losing some fans are rightly annoyed, played 4, lost 4, scored 0 and conceded 11. When the team goes 4 games unbeaten, winning 2 and drawing 2, conceding just 3 whilst finding a bit of form up front with 5 goals some fans are still annoyed.

We should not let our dislike of Fenlon blind us. You have made excuses as to why we beat Killie and St Johnstone!

You said that Fenlon will continue to plod along losing the matches we should be winning yet when we win against opposition that we should be beating and pick up the 3 points (against a 'poor' Killie side) it is still not good enough. More so, when we beat a side who we may not have been expected to beat (a 'surprised' St J) it is still not good enough.

Do you want the team's results to improve or are you hoping that they will nose dive so you can be proven correct?

A run of games unbeaten is something that makes most football fans happy! The alternative is to see the team continue the form of those first 4 games. Which do you want to see?

AK86
15-09-2013, 11:55 AM
We beat the mighty St Js and suddenly Pat is the messiah :confused:

Pats got a lot more to do before I'm convinced

Beefster
15-09-2013, 12:09 PM
Have we only lost 2 of our last 12 league games or something? Not really sacking form.

I really struggle to take you seriously sometimes. You wanted him sacked after he had only lost 2 of his last 8 league games.

Seeing as we're doing selective stats though, this season we've won 2, drawn 2 and lost 4 of our competitive games, scoring five goals and conceding 14 in the process. We've won one league home game in 2013.

I hope Fenlon proves those of us who think he's out of his depth wrong but, just as it took about 18 months to form that view, it's going to take a sustained period of the team performing to or above its potential to change my mind again.

blackpoolhibs
15-09-2013, 12:26 PM
I really struggle to take you seriously sometimes. You wanted him sacked after he had only lost 2 of his last 8 league games.

Seeing as we're doing selective stats though, this season we've won 2, drawn 2 and lost 4 of our competitive games, scoring five goals and conceding 14 in the process. We've won one league home game in 2013.

I hope Fenlon proves those of us who think he's out of his depth wrong but, just as it took about 18 months to form that view, it's going to take a sustained period of the team performing to or above its potential to change my mind again.

That pretty much sums it up for me, and I 100% want him to change my opinion too.

Andy74
15-09-2013, 12:37 PM
I really struggle to take you seriously sometimes. You wanted him sacked after he had only lost 2 of his last 8 league games.

Seeing as we're doing selective stats though, this season we've won 2, drawn 2 and lost 4 of our competitive games, scoring five goals and conceding 14 in the process. We've won one league home game in 2013.

I hope Fenlon proves those of us who think he's out of his depth wrong but, just as it took about 18 months to form that view, it's going to take a sustained period of the team performing to or above its potential to change my mind again.

I've already said I had one drunken post after ther Hearts games when I suggested his time was up if he couldn't get us attacking! I think the rest of my posts have been largely consistent on the subject!

If you are taking the last 18 months, most of that has seen a significant improvement from where we were. We had a rough spell at the turn of the year but we ended the season well.

We had a rough start this time but we are getting there.

There's far more to suggest he will do well here than that he won't. I'm sure a lot of those backing him aren't looking at the last 4 games, they are lloking at how the club and team has changed on his overall time here and what the squad that he has assembled now looks capable of.

I didn't ever say I was satisfied with results or performances but I just didn't think sacking him was the answer - he has adressed the areas we were lacking in and we will see from here how it develops.

I quoted the longer period because if you are lloking at sacking form or not, a couple of defeats in the last 12 in the league doesn't really come into that category.

Treadstone
15-09-2013, 12:48 PM
I've already said I had one drunken post after ther Hearts games when I suggested his time was up if he couldn't get us attacking! I think the rest of my posts have been largely consistent on the subject!

If you are taking the last 18 months, most of that has seen a significant improvement from where we were. We had a rough spell at the turn of the year but we ended the season well.

We had a rough start this time but we are getting there.

There's far more to suggest he will do well here than that he won't. I'm sure a lot of those backing him aren't looking at the last 4 games, they are lloking at how the club and team has changed on his overall time here and what the squad that he has assembled now looks capable of.

I didn't ever say I was satisfied with results or performances but I just didn't think sacking him was the answer - he has adressed the areas we were lacking in and we will see from here how it develops.

I quoted the longer period because if you are lloking at sacking form or not, a couple of defeats in the last 12 in the league doesn't really come into that category.

A considerate post Andy. Sometimes when i see someone defend PF, I usually know it is 'Andy74' (take that as a back-handed compliment as it was intended). I like many others need to see a sustained period of good results and performances but yesterday was a start. I never took part in the poll that had at one time 95% wanting him to go, these things can make people look foolish, although i would have voted for him to go. I also think that many of those that voted that way would like to see him turn it round, as PF is a classy individual referenced by his attitude of the poor decisions in the United and Yams games at the backend of last season. I thought his HibernianTV interview on Friday was a bit more pragmatic than usual and signalled a change of tack in that regard. Onwards and upwards.

Purehibee_MYB
15-09-2013, 01:05 PM
Like many others on here it's gonna take more than a few good performances for me to be fully convinced. I was shocked after the Killie result to see so many who had been unhappy with Fenlon suddenly saying he had turned the corner. Again, like others I want Fenlon to be successful mainly because I am fed up of the managerial revolving door at ER over the past years. Next week is my first game of the season after just getting back from Canada so I can really see how we are playing but for me to be fully convinced of Fenlon we need to start playing well and not continually grinding out draws against average teams

basehibby
15-09-2013, 02:19 PM
One thing that strikes me about the views expressed on here is it's always black and white - Fenlon/insert manager's name here is always either the next messiah or a useless imposter who wouldn't know a football from a cauliflower.

I see it as being a lot more grey area than that. For me Fenlon DOES know a thing or two about football and the proof of that is a very successful track record in Ireland, two cup finals at Hibs and what to me looks like a very solid squad of players assembled at Easter Road.

On the other hand it strikes me that he has sometimes been tactically naive or unsophisticated, unable or unwilling to change the course of a game, and has consequently been given the runaround by more wily opponents in the dugout at times.

So for me there are definate strengths and weaknesses and the question has got to be - will he improve on those weak spots? He has been quoted as saying that football is often over complicated and he tends to get the players out on the park and let them get on with it.

That may be right up to a point, but for me, the great managers in football have always been the ones who strive to use every possible angle to their advantage - Ferguson for example, as well as being a great coach and talent spotter is a great psychologist who never seemed to miss an opportunity to wind up the opposition, toy with the referees' minds or do whatever he deemed necessary to get the best out of his players. His great opponent Mourinho is noted for taking tactical preparation to the level of a pseudo-science.

I guess what I'm saying is that Fenlon is a decent manager who has already done something of a job IMO in making Hibs look like a team that doesn't look in any danger of being relegated. Whether he can now take the club onto that illusory "next level" which we all crave - that of challenging for the top spots in the SPL and qualifying for Europe WITHOUT getting horsed out before the season has even started - depends on his ability to improve and learn.

Scottish football despite all the deserved slaggings it receives IS a higher level than the Irish league which up until recently was Fenlon's only experience both as manager and player. I've had my doubts about him - mainly prompted by the disastrous embarassment vs Malmo - but I'm hopeful that this win in Perth might be the beginning of a more solid bit of form which will allow him the security to really show us what he's got and grow in the job with the team he has now assembled.

Keith_M
15-09-2013, 02:29 PM
Have we only lost 2 of our last 12 league games or something? Not really sacking form.



:hmmm:

Mikey
15-09-2013, 02:32 PM
One thing that strikes me about the views expressed on here is it's always black and white - Fenlon/insert manager's name here is always either the next messiah or a useless imposter who wouldn't know a football from a cauliflower.

I see it as being a lot more grey area than that. For me Fenlon DOES know a thing or two about football and the proof of that is a very successful track record in Ireland, two cup finals at Hibs and what to me looks like a very solid squad of players assembled at Easter Road.

On the other hand it strikes me that he has sometimes been tactically naive or unsophisticated, unable or unwilling to change the course of a game, and has consequently been given the runaround by more wily opponents in the dugout at times.

So for me there are definate strengths and weaknesses and the question has got to be - will he improve on those weak spots? He has been quoted as saying that football is often over complicated and he tends to get the players out on the park and let them get on with it.

That may be right up to a point, but for me, the great managers in football have always been the ones who strive to use every possible angle to their advantage - Ferguson for example, as well as being a great coach and talent spotter is a great psychologist who never seemed to miss an opportunity to wind up the opposition, toy with the referees' minds or do whatever he deemed necessary to get the best out of his players. His great opponent Mourinho is noted for taking tactical preparation to the level of a pseudo-science.

I guess what I'm saying is that Fenlon is a decent manager who has already done something of a job IMO in making Hibs look like a team that doesn't look in any danger of being relegated. Whether he can now take the club onto that illusory "next level" which we all crave - that of challenging for the top spots in the SPL and qualifying for Europe WITHOUT getting horsed out before the season has even started - depends on his ability to improve and learn.

Scottish football despite all the deserved slaggings it receives IS a higher level than the Irish league which up until recently was Fenlon's only experience both as manager and player. I've had my doubts about him - mainly prompted by the disastrous embarassment vs Malmo - but I'm hopeful that this win in Perth might be the beginning of a more solid bit of form which will allow him the security to really show us what he's got and grow in the job with the team he has now assembled.

I've said a few times that i think he's doing a good job at Hibs, except for the most important 90 minutes of the week. Someone's going to come in and benefit from what he's done at the club.

Unless of course he gets an extension..................