Stand AMF article on overzealous Scottish policing/stewarding

[deeks01]

http://www.standamf.com/2013/09/09/sex-drugs-football-thugs/

Saw this on StandAMF's Facebook page & found it quite an interesting wee read. I believe the actual original article is from a Motherwell fanzine. Following up on their heavy hands - empty stands campaign no doubt. What are the rest of the Hibs supports views on this, paranoid crap or indictment of a real problem in authorities attitudes to football fans? Never seen this discussed in detail on here so be interesting to hear others views.

[Keith_M]

A lot of what is said in the article has merit but is let down by using Celtc fans as an example. They are actually part of the problem that persuaded The Scottish Govt to act in the first place.

I actually agree that there was already enough legislation in place to cover sectarian and pro-terrorist songs and chants. The new laws are too vague and being applied in ridiculous situations.

The biggest culprits, fans of the (The) Rangers, are still in their thousands singing 'offensive' sings with seeming impunity. There are occasional arrests (mainly away from home) on sectarian charges but these are in no way proportional to the number of instances. The powers that be are also incredibly silent on what we can hear from these fans every time one of their games is televised.


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The article above as a LINK (http://www.standamf.com/2013/09/09/sex-drugs-football-thugs/)

[Northernhibee]

Despite studying in Dundee I only went to Tannadice three or four times for games.

To be charged over £20 for crap seats in the away area to get hassle for standing up to let someone by to head to the toilet and be frisked on entry along with my 69 year old dad, sod that.

There may be some idiots but we are paying customers and largely treated very poorly.

It needs to change.

[Hibee87]

Despite studying in Dundee I only went to Tannadice three or four times for games.

To be charged over £20 for crap seats in the away area to get hassle for standing up to let someone by to head to the toilet and be frisked on entry along with my 69 year old dad, sod that.

There may be some idiots but we are paying customers and largely treated very poorly.

It needs to change.

A few years ago I went to the tannidice with my mate (think it was 1-1 deeks scoring for us) any way, we were at the very back of the stand top left corner and hibs had a corner down at the bottom right, we couldnt see the corner flag so stood up and leant forward to see. Noboday behind us as we were at the back and no one infront of us a steward then said you have to sit its against the law to stand at football. I was like aye ok pal 2 secs til i see the corner eh? he was like no sit down now or you will be removed. any way corner came in at this point so we sat back down. then when Hibs scored we jumped up literally 5 seconds after the guy was runing over saying we were on our last warning, I got a bit annoyed and said FFS pal were only celebrating our goal like eveyone else. then a chorus of a hibs song and we stood up clapping I got grabbed and the guy was like right your ooot mate. I shrugged him off and telt him to bolt and was only singing like 700 other hibees. His 'superviser' came over and I complained we were doing nothing wrong. We both then just said fluck it were off any way and just went and sat in another bit of the stand with no hassell atall. Honestly couldnt belive the hassell we were getting especially since we werent even in anyones way.

[--------]

A lot of what is said in the article has merit but is let down by using Celtc fans as an example. They are actually part of the problem that persuaded The Scottish Govt to act in the first place.

I actually agree that there was already enough legislation in place to cover sectarian and pro-terrorist songs and chants. The new laws are too vague and being applied in ridiculous situations.

The biggest culprits, fans of the (The) Rangers, are still in their thousands singing 'offensive' sings with seeming impunity. There are occasional arrests (mainly away from home) on sectarian charges but these are in no way proportional to the number of instances. The powers that be are also incredibly silent on what we can hear from these fans every time one of their games is televised.


------------------------------
The article above as a LINK (http://www.standamf.com/2013/09/09/sex-drugs-football-thugs/)


To be fair to the Celtic fans, the article makes a valid point. The protest in question wasn't at an OF game; the numbers involved were 200 or a few more; and the resort of 'kettling' - forcing the people concerned into a limited space from which they have no exit is a tactic that can very easily lead to trouble. People stuck in a crush with nowhere to go can very easily panic, and panic isn't a good thing in a crowd at any time. Gross over-reaction; it's almost as if Strathclyde Police were trying to make the demonstrators' point for them.

There's no suggestion (not a credible one, anyway) that the situation at Parkhead that day was threatening. Cheeky and inappropriate, maybe, dishonest, even, but not threatening.

Rangers were through at Airdrie recently, and I reckon if the law had been applied properly, the game would have been stopped midway through he first half. "Offensive chanting"? That Hieland polis in Inverness should have heard what I could hear when I drove past the stadium that evening. Anyone within half a mile of the stadium could hear it. I don't believe ANY arrests were made, nor did anyone I know who went to the match see anything out of the ordinary in what had transpired.

Of course, four or five thousand Rangers fans up to the knees in Fenian blood are a lot scarier than a couple of Hibs fans at Tannadice getting up out of their seats for a few seconds in an attempt to see the football (football they've paid out good money to see).

The Scottish Government didn't need to pass any new legislation to deal with this problem - the laws were already in place, and only required some courageous and even-handed police action to enforce them.

What we have instead is no change of attitude on the part of the police and the addition of stewards. Stewards are a mixed bunch, in my experience - most of them are reasonable, but you always have the half-dozen witless, half-trained, over-officious petty Hitlers who're the ones who make the difference. (You've got them in their polis uniforms as well, of course.)

I like to go to the cinema and theatre. There the staff treat me with courtesy and do not immediately assume that I'm going to stand up and lob a half-brick at the stage or screen if I don't like the entertainment. They don't even search me at the door to check I don't have any half-bricks on my person.

Seating makes policing inside the stadium a whole lot easier than on standing terraces. Left to ourselves, football fans will do a fair job of policing ourselves - under the watchful eye of the gendarmerie. What isn't acceptable is the partilaity clearly detectable in the way Scottish football is policed - not a cheep about the vicious hate-filled bile that spews out all over whenever the OF come to town, but the Highland derby's a flashpoint?

Of course, it's probably all those skean dhus and dirks and claymores and cabers and sporrans and stuff the Callie and County fans smuggle into the stadiums that make the problem.

[The_Horde]

A few years ago I went to the tannidice with my mate (think it was 1-1 deeks scoring for us) any way, we were at the very back of the stand top left corner and hibs had a corner down at the bottom right, we couldnt see the corner flag so stood up and leant forward to see. Noboday behind us as we were at the back and no one infront of us a steward then said you have to sit its against the law to stand at football. I was like aye ok pal 2 secs til i see the corner eh? he was like no sit down now or you will be removed. any way corner came in at this point so we sat back down. then when Hibs scored we jumped up literally 5 seconds after the guy was runing over saying we were on our last warning, I got a bit annoyed and said FFS pal were only celebrating our goal like eveyone else. then a chorus of a hibs song and we stood up clapping I got grabbed and the guy was like right your ooot mate. I shrugged him off and telt him to bolt and was only singing like 700 other hibees. His 'superviser' came over and I complained we were doing nothing wrong. We both then just said fluck it were off any way and just went and sat in another bit of the stand with no hassell atall. Honestly couldnt belive the hassell we were getting especially since we werent even in anyones way.

Absolute carbon copy of what happened to me a couple seasons back at tannadice. Only I was launched and wound up watching us get humped with a bunch of dundonian casuals.