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RIP
05-09-2013, 06:41 PM
Let's Work Together at Hibernian FC - Annual Review - Wed 11th September from 6.00 pm

An open door opportunity for Hibernian Supporters to meet with Chairman Rod Petrie and members of his management team and look back over the past year, set in the context of recent seasons. There will be an opportunity to ask specfic questions on results over the period 2011/2013, the football philosophy at Hibs and the medium to long-term board ambition / strategy

Volunteers will also share our experiences of progressing past engagement forums to a closer working partnership with management. This should give you a good opportunity to understand who does what at our football club, what improvement projects were delivered last season and both hear about and input to plans for the season ahead

Please note that the normal monthly meetings cover a variety of topics including matchday, ticketing, catering, retail, league restructure, TV deals. We would respectfully ask attendees if questions on these matters could be held back until the October meeting to enable us to focus on the annual review agenda. Please note that in order to maximise the opportunity to the audience on the night I will be unable to ask questions on your behalf but if you know someone who is going I'm sure they would consider putting your question for you

Meetings usually wind up between 8.30 and 9pm. For numbers and building security, please PM me if you are interested in attending on Wednesday

GGTTH

blackpoolhibs
05-09-2013, 06:47 PM
Would someone who's going ask if the club have thought about making the bottom tier or the top tier of the FF into the singing section?

Maybe point them towards the poll on here?

edinburghhibee
05-09-2013, 07:09 PM
PM sent to you gogs. Never been to one of these meetings but I'm interested in attending this one due to the fact I feel my club is being run into the ground by this man and his manager.

puff the dragon
05-09-2013, 07:13 PM
Petrie trying to justify why we should allow him to continue to slowly kill Hibernian.

No point in going, nothing you say will be listened too and Petrie's ego will reign for many more years.

Petrie out.

B.H.F.C
05-09-2013, 07:37 PM
PM also sent

Viva_Palmeiras
05-09-2013, 07:37 PM
Petrie trying to justify why we should allow him to continue to slowly kill Hibernian.

No point in going, nothing you say will be listened too and Petrie's ego will reign for many more years.

Petrie out.

Your job is done here thanks.

SaulGoodman
05-09-2013, 07:40 PM
Think this could be a good thing, hopefully Rod is less vague with his responses this time though :thumbsup:

Cabbage East
05-09-2013, 07:42 PM
Can't make it but for the love of god can someone make the point that when we score (aye, I know!), that time is for the fans to make noise, let out some emotion, sing, whatever rather than the PA system to blast out some sh*tty song that's been played on Geordie Shore. Please. Please someone make this point clear. We are not a plastic club that needs to be prompted what to sing, let us make some noise when we score, thanks. I think we've paid our money and deserve that at least.

Saorsa
05-09-2013, 07:43 PM
the football philosophy at Hibs and the medium to long-term board ambition / strategyThese things actually exist? Cannae say I've noticed.

I'd like tae hear what the 5 year plan :hilarious is now that they've had time tae make it up since the last spin session. I'd still like tae ken what the plan/strategy has been for the last 6 years if anybody would care tae ask. Perhaps you could report back, I've nae interest in what Petrie has tae say (unless it's about his resignation), just fancy a bit of a laugh at the spin and guff from the next flannel session, that's all.

Carheenlea
05-09-2013, 07:58 PM
Can't make it but for the love of god can someone make the point that when we score (aye, I know!), that time is for the fans to make noise, let out some emotion, sing, whatever rather than the PA system to blast out some sh*tty song that's been played on Geordie Shore. Please. Please someone make this point clear. We are not a plastic club that needs to be prompted what to sing, let us make some noise when we score, thanks. I think we've paid our money and deserve that at least.

I`m, with you on that. I don`t see what doing that actually brings to the matchday experience. If anything it cheapens it.

I would think quite a number of fans would share our opinion, so while not exactly the biggest concern we have at present, it is an issue worth putting across at the meeting.

Corstorphine Hibby
05-09-2013, 08:02 PM
Let's Work Together at Hibernian FC - Annual Review - Wed 11th September from 6.00 pm

An open door opportunity for Hibernian Supporters to meet with Chairman Rod Petrie and members of his management team and look back over the past year, set in the context of recent seasons. There will be an opportunity to ask specfic questions on results over the period 2011/2013, the football philosophy at Hibs and the medium to long-term board ambition / strategy

Volunteers will also share our experiences of progressing past engagement forums to a closer working partnership with management. This should give you a good opportunity to understand who does what at our football club, what improvement projects were delivered last season and both hear about and input to plans for the season ahead

Please note that the normal monthly meetings cover a variety of topics including matchday, ticketing, catering, retail, league restructure, TV deals. We would respectfully ask attendees if questions on these matters could be held back until the October meeting to enable us to focus on the annual review agenda. Please note that in order to maximise the opportunity to the audience on the night I will be unable to ask questions on your behalf but if you know someone who is going I'm sure they would consider putting your question for you

Meetings usually wind up between 8.30 and 9pm. For numbers and building security, please PM me if you are interested in attending on Wednesday

GGTTH


Cue those who bang on, and on, and on about regime change saying they can't make the meeting. I suspect there will be a Hibs.net thread on the night of the meeting and I also suspect those who bang on, and on, and on, about regime change, but canny make the meeting, will have time to post on the night about what a waste of time the meeting is / was.

andy1875
05-09-2013, 08:11 PM
Are the board of directors as fed up and bored to tears as we the fans are every Saturday?

The Ross County game was as bad as it gets. Sheer boredom was the only way to describe it.

I've heard the "Hibernian Way" phrase used numerous times. That certainly wasnt it.

So my question would be simply:- What do the board think of our current style of play?

Saorsa
05-09-2013, 08:19 PM
Cue those who bang on, and on, and on about regime change saying they can't make the meeting. I suspect there will be a Hibs.net thread on the night of the meeting and I also suspect those who bang on, and on, and on, about regime change, but canny make the meeting, will have time to post on the night about what a waste of time the meeting is / was.Has the regime changed since the last meeting? Has Petrie gone? Has Fenlon? Has anything changed at all? What did that last meeting achieve other than the release other than another banal statement? A statement I could have written because I knew what would be in it?

Is this meeting going tae bring about a change of regime? Dinnae thinks so. Petrie will turn up pretend he is listening and nod his heid while it's really going in one ear and out the other then he will continue tae do things his way anyway. You go tae all the meetings you want with Petrie, they'll achieve what all the ones before have done, **** all. I wouldnae wast 5 minutes of my life on the man but you bash on. :aok:

Hiber-nation
05-09-2013, 08:20 PM
Can't make it but for the love of god can someone make the point that when we score (aye, I know!), that time is for the fans to make noise, let out some emotion, sing, whatever rather than the PA system to blast out some sh*tty song that's been played on Geordie Shore. Please. Please someone make this point clear. We are not a plastic club that needs to be prompted what to sing, let us make some noise when we score, thanks. I think we've paid our money and deserve that at least.

:agree:

Does ma heid in.

Chuck Rhoades
05-09-2013, 08:21 PM
This should be interesting. From the people I have spoken with I reckon there will be 5/6 times the usual numbers at these LWT gatherings

Corstorphine Hibby
05-09-2013, 08:45 PM
Has the regime changed since the last meeting? Has Petrie gone? Has Fenlon? Has anything changed at all? What did that last meeting achieve other than the release other than another banal statement? A statement I could have written because I knew what would be in it?

Is this meeting going tae bring about a change of regime? Dinnae thinks so. Petrie will turn up pretend he is listening and nod his heid while it's really going in one ear and out the other then he will continue tae do things his way anyway. You go tae all the meetings you want with Petrie, they'll achieve what all the ones before have done, **** all. I wouldnae wast 5 minutes of my life on the man but you bash on. :aok:

Judging by the amount of anti Petrie posts you type, I would hazard a guess that you have wasted a lot more than 5 minutes of your life on the man already.

Based on your own logic, if there's no point in going to a meeting coz nothing will change, what's the point in venting your spleen re change on a message board ?

Brooster
05-09-2013, 08:49 PM
Time for some of the gob*****s on here to go along and make a point.....if in fact they know how to get to Easter Road.

Saorsa
05-09-2013, 08:51 PM
Time for some of the gob*****s on here to go along and make a point.....if in fact they know how to get to Easter Road.I ken how tae get there ya gob*****, I have a season ticket!

Brooster
05-09-2013, 08:54 PM
I ken how tae get there ya gob*****, I have a season ticket!

Good for you. Why not go to the LWT meeting to raise your issues instead of boring folk to death on here.

Viva_Palmeiras
05-09-2013, 08:56 PM
Is someone keeping score...? ;)

Saorsa
05-09-2013, 08:57 PM
Good for you. Why not go to the LWT meeting to raise your issues instead of boring folk to death on here.Because I've already said I've nae interest in what he has tae say because it'll change nothing. As far as I'm concerned He is ultimately responsible for the pish we have been watching for years, He should have gone efter Calderwood, nothing will change my mind about that. If my posts bore you try the ignore list, I'll post as I please.

The Green Goblin
05-09-2013, 08:57 PM
Time for some of the gob*****s on here to go along and make a point.....if in fact they know how to get to Easter Road.

Think most of them know how to get there, it's what they see there that's the problem, not the fact that they care enough to complain about it.

Baldy Foghorn
05-09-2013, 09:05 PM
Because I've already said I've nae interest in what he has tae say because it'll change nothing. As far as I'm concerned He is ultimately responsible for the pish we have been watching for years, He should have gone efter Calderwood, nothing will change my mind about that. If my posts bore you try the ignore list, I'll post as I please.

Conversely Dan, you could go and tell RP exactly that, and see how he responds.....The more people that badger him, the more he may just become cognisant of the pertinent issues....

Viva_Palmeiras
05-09-2013, 09:06 PM
Think most of them know how to get there, it's what they see there that's the problem, not the fact that they care enough to complain about it.

If seeing is believing and folks are not geographically challenged it baffles me as to why not take the opportunity to complain face to face and favour an online forum. Why not witness the (mythical?) Rodmeister in action?
Why not ask those awkward questions that nobody seems to ask in the manner you would?
Why not keep at it until a real answer is given?
Why not pull up evasive responses?

Is it because the easier option is kicking out words on a keyboard?

In as much as Rod is accountable, we are accountable for taking he and others to task. How can that effectively be done without face to face dialogue?

DaveF
05-09-2013, 09:10 PM
Conversely Dan, you could go and tell RP exactly that, and see how he responds.....The more people that badger him, the more he may just become cognisant of the pertinent issues....

If Petrie hasn't got the message by now, then having one more person at a meeting isn't going to make any difference.

The regular LWT attendees should (IMO) be using these meetings to challenge those 'in charge' rather than providing free labour on projects.

What's more important - Addressing our dwindling crowds and boring uninspiring football or mission statements and visions for the future?

DaveF
05-09-2013, 09:12 PM
If seeing is believing and folks are not geographically challenged it baffles me as to why not take the opportunity to complain face to face and favour an online forum. Why not witness the (mythical?) Rodmeister in action?
Why not ask those awkward questions that nobody seems to ask in the manner you would?
Why not keep at it until a real answer is given?
Why not pull up evasive responses?

There was a meeting a matter of weeks ago where questions were asked and vague answers were given. No wonder people like Dan are extremely sceptical.

Corstorphine Hibby
05-09-2013, 09:17 PM
Think most of them know how to get there, it's what they see there that's the problem, not the fact that they care enough to complain about it.

It's a given that we all care on here.
You could argue that those who refuse to go to the meeting don't care as much as you maybe think they do.

Baldy Foghorn
05-09-2013, 09:19 PM
If Petrie hasn't got the message by now, then having one more person at a meeting isn't going to make any difference.

The regular LWT attendees should (IMO) be using these meetings to challenge those 'in charge' rather than providing free labour on projects.

What's more important - Addressing our dwindling crowds and boring uninspiring football or mission statements and visions for the future?

Not many go to the LWT meetings, apart from the usual suspects, coupled with the fact RP has not attended one in Month's. He is going on Wednesday, so why don't people go and try to gain answers for themselves......

Viva_Palmeiras
05-09-2013, 09:28 PM
If Petrie hasn't got the message by now, then having one more person at a meeting isn't going to make any difference.

The regular LWT attendees should (IMO) be using these meetings to challenge those 'in charge' rather than providing free labour on projects.

What's more important - Addressing our dwindling crowds and boring uninspiring football or mission statements and visions for the future?

In my view LWT does both. The emphasis being on delivering something tangible often extending capability of the club through skills and resource. If we didn't do that then either these initiatives would not get done or something else would be impacted which defeats the purpose. Were you not at the first meeting (and possibly more Dave?)

Corstorphine Hibby
05-09-2013, 09:29 PM
If Petrie hasn't got the message by now, then having one more person at a meeting isn't going to make any difference.

The regular LWT attendees should (IMO) be using these meetings to challenge those 'in charge' rather than providing free labour on projects.

What's more important - Addressing our dwindling crowds and boring uninspiring football or mission statements and visions for the future?

What message has Petrie not got ? Fenlon out ? Petrie out ? Is that what the clear majority of Hibs fans want? Where are these mass demonstrations outside Easter Road giving Petrie this mythical clear message ?

hibby rae
05-09-2013, 09:44 PM
I know many on here who want Fenlon gone blame Petrie for him being made boss in the first place but I'm pretty sure that he had nothing top do with the selection of Fenlon. That was done by Scott Lindsay and Fife Hyland, who have both now left the club.

spike220
05-09-2013, 09:45 PM
These things actually exist? Cannae say I've noticed.

I'd like tae hear what the 5 year plan :hilarious is now that they've had time tae make it up since the last spin session. I'd still like tae ken what the plan/strategy has been for the last 6 years if anybody would care tae ask. Perhaps you could report back, I've nae interest in what Petrie has tae say (unless it's about his resignation), just fancy a bit of a laugh at the spin and guff from the next flannel session, that's all.
I would be most worried if the finer details of the 5 year plan were divulged in a public forum.

The Green Goblin
05-09-2013, 09:49 PM
If seeing is believing and folks are not geographically challenged it baffles me as to why not take the opportunity to complain face to face and favour an online forum. Why not witness the (mythical?) Rodmeister in action?
Why not ask those awkward questions that nobody seems to ask in the manner you would?
Why not keep at it until a real answer is given?
Why not pull up evasive responses?

Is it because the easier option is kicking out words on a keyboard?

In as much as Rod is accountable, we are accountable for taking he and others to task. How can that effectively be done without face to face dialogue?

Not disagreeing with any of that mate. You're spot on, but I don't care for the sudden turning on people just cos they have posted their opinions on here. How do they know who can or can't make that meeting? Hats off to the supporters who go along, but whatever happens there, it doesn't suddenly mean that people have no right to have their say on a Hibs fans forum. That's not aimed at you btw, but it's why I wrote the reply I did.

marinello59
05-09-2013, 09:51 PM
I would be most worried if the finer details of the 5 year plan were divulged in a public forum.

Finer details? The major strategic points would be a start and surely they should be made public.

The Green Goblin
05-09-2013, 09:52 PM
What message has Petrie not got ? Fenlon out ? Petrie out ? Is that what the clear majority of Hibs fans want? Where are these mass demonstrations outside Easter Road giving Petrie this mythical clear message ?

You won't get crowds of people protesting at what passes for football at ER these days, instead, you can count your protesters by the increasing number of empty seats with each passing week as folks decide they have simply had enough.

down-the-slope
05-09-2013, 10:27 PM
Not many go to the LWT meetings, apart from the usual suspects, coupled with the fact RP has not attended one in Month's. He is going on Wednesday, so why don't people go and try to gain answers for themselves......

:confused: really

edinburghhibee
06-09-2013, 12:00 AM
The folk who come on here and mouth off constantly about wanting a change at board room level can come along and ask the questions they are wishing to put across to the man they want out, yet they decide I'm not going because nothing will change!!!

Turn up vent your anger at the man make him understand your frustrations instead of sitting behind your keyboard safe in the knowledge that if anyone questions your point of view you can turn off or log out.

Get along to this meeting and get your point across to the mans face if he doesn't answer the questions you want answered or is vague with answers you can get in his ear about it.

That'll be too hard for some people though. We need people to stand up and be counted or change will never happen.

Gatecrasher
06-09-2013, 06:58 AM
I'd pay money to see Rod and DD go head to head.

Golden Bear
06-09-2013, 07:21 AM
You won't get crowds of people protesting at what passes for football at ER these days, instead, you can count your protesters by the increasing number of empty seats with each passing week as folks decide they have simply had enough.

:agree:

And surely the Management can see that.

Jack
06-09-2013, 07:27 AM
Because I've already said I've nae interest in what he has tae say because it'll change nothing. As far as I'm concerned He is ultimately responsible for the pish we have been watching for years, He should have gone efter Calderwood, nothing will change my mind about that. If my posts bore you try the ignore list, I'll post as I please.

I think you're venting your anger at the wrong person. You have to remember Rod is the hired hand and he may have the gun; but its STF that gives him the bullets and tells him when to fire - which is lucky for you as I suspect if Rod was able to shoot anyone it would be you ;-)

Rod can't/won't change anything unless instructed to by the owner.

dangermouse
06-09-2013, 07:28 AM
Because I've already said I've nae interest in what he has tae say because it'll change nothing. As far as I'm concerned He is ultimately responsible for the pish we have been watching for years, He should have gone efter Calderwood, nothing will change my mind about that. If my posts bore you try the ignore list, I'll post as I please.

And that's why the things you want to change will never change. People who feel passionately about the club, like yourself, but are prepared to do nothing about it except mouth off behind a keyboard. Like yourself. If you want change go along and make change happen. If you don't want change, carry on as normal.

I unfortunately cannot make a Wednesday night due to other commitments or I'd be there.

greenpaper55
06-09-2013, 07:33 AM
One thing for sure it would seem that fan power is having some sort of effect when the board have to mount a charm offensive with the supporters, it is not easy going along to something like this and openly slag someone off to their face for their performance and the board know this. Much better if they did their job in the first place and knew how to start the process of putting a winning team on the park but i think that is beyond them.

dangermouse
06-09-2013, 07:35 AM
Not disagreeing with any of that mate. You're spot on, but I don't care for the sudden turning on people just cos they have posted their opinions on here. How do they know who can or can't make that meeting? Hats off to the supporters who go along, but whatever happens there, it doesn't suddenly mean that people have no right to have their say on a Hibs fans forum. That's not aimed at you btw, but it's why I wrote the reply I did.

I don't think anyone is turning on anyone else. Some of us are just a bit hacked off with calls for change but when the opportunity presents itself to get involved they can't be bothered.

It's a bit like complaining about the current Government but you didn't bother to vote in the General Election and have no intention in voting in the next one.

blackpoolhibs
06-09-2013, 08:00 AM
Can this one be filmed by HI this time, i heard the last one was not filmed because the club felt some folk might feel intimidated.

I'm not convinced that's the case now, and this needs done to stop any confusion like the last time.

DanHFC1875
06-09-2013, 08:03 AM
Cue those who bang on, and on, and on about regime change saying they can't make the meeting. I suspect there will be a Hibs.net thread on the night of the meeting and I also suspect those who bang on, and on, and on, about regime change, but canny make the meeting, will have time to post on the night about what a waste of time the meeting is / was.

Another Nazi poster. Are you one of the ''bigger & better'' Hibs fans? :rolleyes:


Boris?!

That is all.

RIP
06-09-2013, 08:10 AM
Can this one be filmed by HI this time, i heard the last one was not filmed because the club felt some folk might feel intimidated.

I'm not convinced that's the case now, and this needs done to stop any confusion like the last time.

There were up to 50 at the last meeting and could be a higher attendance at the next one. Because it's an open meeting management feel that by filming the meeting this may restrict the attendance. We also have board members who have other directorships who need to be cautious about appearing on TV.

I did ask about filimning the event Gary but the logistics of obtaining permissions for such an event are outwith our gift to make happen in these timescales. We are hopeful though for some coverage on Hibs TV this winter. One of the points raised in previous meetings was to widen the scope of Hibs TV past the football department to cover the wider Hibernian Family. I think it's potential is limited only by the number of volunteers, hence the recent website appeal

Beefster
06-09-2013, 08:28 AM
If seeing is believing and folks are not geographically challenged it baffles me as to why not take the opportunity to complain face to face and favour an online forum. Why not witness the (mythical?) Rodmeister in action?
Why not ask those awkward questions that nobody seems to ask in the manner you would?
Why not keep at it until a real answer is given?
Why not pull up evasive responses?

Is it because the easier option is kicking out words on a keyboard?

In as much as Rod is accountable, we are accountable for taking he and others to task. How can that effectively be done without face to face dialogue?

There seems to be this toxic perception that if you don't go along to a LWT meeting, you are just "kicking out words on a keyboard". To be blunt, it's a perception that's utter pish.

Rodders walks around BTG every home game just ripe to be whinged at and there is telephone, email and post if anyone doesn't have the inclination or time to nip along to a 3 hour meeting on a school night.

If some LWT members weren't so precious about how important their meetings are or defensive about anything that could be perceived as criticism of LWT (which believe it or not, most Hibs supporters are hoping can make a real difference) then maybe more folk would be willing to attend?

zlatan
06-09-2013, 08:52 AM
There were up to 50 at the last meeting and could be a higher attendance at the next one. Because it's an open meeting management feel that by filming the meeting this may restrict the attendance. We also have board members who have other directorships who need to be cautious about appearing on TV.

I did ask about filimning the event Gary but the logistics of obtaining permissions for such an event are outwith our gift to make happen in these timescales. We are hopeful though for some coverage on Hibs TV this winter. One of the points raised in previous meetings was to widen the scope of Hibs TV past the football department to cover the wider Hibernian Family. I think it's potential is limited only by the number of volunteers, hence the recent website appeal

Someone could take a dictaphone and stick the recording on soundcloud.

Viva_Palmeiras
06-09-2013, 09:09 AM
There seems to be this toxic perception that if you don't go along to a LWT meeting, you are just "kicking out words on a keyboard". To be blunt, it's a perception that's utter pish.

Rodders walks around BTG every home game just ripe to be whinged at and there is telephone, email and post if anyone doesn't have the inclination or time to nip along to a 3 hour meeting on a school night.

If some LWT members weren't so precious about how important their meetings are or defensive about anything that could be perceived as criticism of LWT (which believe it or not, most Hibs supporters are hoping can make a real difference) then maybe more folk would be willing to attend?

Perceptions... If you take explanations about what LWT does and debate about attendance versus remaining on a forum as defensive that is your choice. Bash on with your style as you wish, this fish is not for biting.

WestStandMoaner
06-09-2013, 09:17 AM
There seems to be this toxic perception that if you don't go along to a LWT meeting, you are just "kicking out words on a keyboard". To be blunt, it's a perception that's utter pish.

Rodders walks around BTG every home game just ripe to be whinged at and there is telephone, email and post if anyone doesn't have the inclination or time to nip along to a 3 hour meeting on a school night.

If some LWT members weren't so precious about how important their meetings are or defensive about anything that could be perceived as criticism of LWT (which believe it or not, most Hibs supporters are hoping can make a real difference) then maybe more folk would be willing to attend?

I attended the last LWT meeting, it was the first meeting I attended and was not sure what to expect, the main reason for going was I had emailed Hibs on a number of occasions to raise my concerns about the direction the club was going on the park and got little response. This is why I decided to attend the meeting, what I can tell you clearly, is I found a meeting which was organised and controlled, the questions asked where answered by the board honestly and openly and I found the regular LWT members welcoming and friendly. Found no one defensive and would recommend if you can find the time to go along. The more Hibs fans that turn up the more chance we have of making a difference

Keith_M
06-09-2013, 09:37 AM
I'm surprised with the number of people that say this meeting is pointless, e.g. if regime change is not achievable, why bother going.

Surely the topics to be discussed are STILL worthwhile even if you think you might not get what you want MOST (e.g. Petrie out).


I'm unable to go to these events because of being 'geographically challenged' but I'd love to be able to go and have my views heard. If I didn't, that would just make me a 'keyboard loudmouth'.

Beefster
06-09-2013, 09:43 AM
Perceptions... If you take explanations about what LWT does and debate about attendance versus remaining on a forum as defensive that is your choice. Bash on with your style as you wish, this fish is not for biting.

I didn't say that your post was defensive. Your post just tried to belittle some posters as 'keyboard warriors' IMHO. There are some members of LWT who get very defensive at anything that could be remotely construed as criticism though. Denying that is just silly.

As for the last sentence, it's a common thing for some on here to try and avoid debate or addressing issues by implying a post is 'fishing'.

Pretty Boy
06-09-2013, 09:53 AM
Will anything actually be learned from this meeting?

Rod is the master of the politicians answer and no matter how much people badger him for a straight answer if he doesn't want to answer then he won't.

I'm still stunned at the fact he categorically stated at the last Q&A that their is no intention bringing in a director of football or CEO, it's Rods way or nothing by the looks of things,

Pedantic_Hibee
06-09-2013, 10:01 AM
In that case PB, a resounding vote of no confidence and a carried threat of boycott would make him sit up and notice, or at least shift uncomfortably in his seat.

He has to answer questions openly, honestly and without swerve.

The Green Goblin
06-09-2013, 10:06 AM
There were up to 50 at the last meeting and could be a higher attendance at the next one. Because it's an open meeting management feel that by filming the meeting this may restrict the attendance. We also have board members who have other directorships who need to be cautious about appearing on TV.

I did ask about filimning the event Gary but the logistics of obtaining permissions for such an event are outwith our gift to make happen in these timescales. We are hopeful though for some coverage on Hibs TV this winter. One of the points raised in previous meetings was to widen the scope of Hibs TV past the football department to cover the wider Hibernian Family. I think it's potential is limited only by the number of volunteers, hence the recent website appeal

Hi Gogs. Could they make an audio recording, like they do audio-commentary for some games?

Viva_Palmeiras
06-09-2013, 10:34 AM
I didn't say that your post was defensive. Your post just tried to belittle some posters as 'keyboard warriors' IMHO. There are some members of LWT who get very defensive at anything that could be remotely construed as criticism though. Denying that is just silly.

As for the last sentence, it's a common thing for some on here to try and avoid debate or addressing issues by implying a post is 'fishing'.

Fair enough Beefster. I do my best try to explain how I've found things in my time at LWT there was a time where folks appeared to be keen to unfairly in my view putting the boot in for anything as a result of one incident which has been gone through. It is my view - and would seem to be supported by WestStandMoaner - that if more folks managed to get along then they could judge better for themselves. That said I have posted elsewhere and fed back I believe LWT take away lessons and could do more on the communication front. I do appreciate that folks have commitments not everyone can make a meeting - I worked in Glasgow for 7 months (I know!) and a 6pm start was impossible without re-jigging things and that was not always possible.

And finally my apologies - it was not my intention to belittle folks. "Kicking out" was a typo - I was on the iMoan I cant even remember what the kicking replaced now :) Folks more succinct and eloquent than me on the forums would add great value to the debate if they could make it in person and could hopefully be viewed as something tangible - reconnecting with the club (even if folks dont see eye-to-eye with Rod meeting like minded folks is great). Any excuse to catch up with like minded Hibbies and getting away from the wife and kids can surely only be good :)

Beefster
06-09-2013, 10:39 AM
Fair enough Beefster. I do my best try to explain how I've found things in my time at LWT there was a time where folks appeared to be keen to unfairly in my view putting the boot in for anything as a result of one incident which has been gone through. It is my view - and would seem to be supported by WestStandMoaner - that if more folks managed to get along then they could judge better for themselves. That said I have posted elsewhere and fed back I believe LWT take away lessons and could do more on the communication front. I do appreciate that folks have commitments not everyone can make a meeting - I worked in Glasgow for 7 months (I know!) and a 6pm start was impossible without re-jigging things and that was not always possible.

And finally my apologies - it was not my intention to belittle folks. "Kicking out" was a typo - I was on the iMoan I cant even remember what the kicking replaced now :) Folks more succinct and eloquent than me on the forums would add great value to the debate if they could make it in person and could hopefully be viewed as something tangible - reconnecting with the club (even if folks dont see eye-to-eye with Rod meeting like minded folks is great). Any excuse to catch up with like minded Hibbies and getting away from the wife and kids can surely only be good :)

Thanks VP. No need for apologies but mine in return if I was too blunt.

I'm not anti-LWT (despite what some of my posts might suggest). I think offering free labour to the club is great. I am just sceptical about how much the club want to change.

Thecat23
06-09-2013, 10:44 AM
I'd like to go to one of these things but i honestly think i'd lose the plot. When asked straight forward questions like, "why are you still on the board after a horrific run of managers" they will no doubt go a long winding route. I view Petrie very much like a politician. If the lips are moving they are lying.

We could get 200 or 2000 people to go but if anyone truly believes our voice has any bearing on Petrie or what he wants to do they are sadly mistaken. He will continue to do it his way. He will continue to appoint rank managers and he will continue to be happy with Hibs finishing mid table. They say the best way to view things is look at the history as more often than not it repeats itself. We have been poor for to long under him. The day he walks out of Hibs will then be the day the club can finally move forward. Until then those who don't agree, just look at attendances to see my point. Folk really have had enough and until major change happens I don't blame them one bit for staying away.

Barney McGrew
06-09-2013, 10:50 AM
I did ask about filming the event Gary but the logistics of obtaining permissions for such an event are outwith our gift to make happen in these timescales.

Sounds like a complete copout on behalf of the club. All they need is a signed permission form for anyone appearing on camera which can be knocked up in a few minutes.

lucky
06-09-2013, 11:03 AM
I went to the last one and found it worthwhile. I would rather Hibs had organised some more small meetings rather than a big bun fight which this appears to be. For that reason I'm not going. I look forward to verbatim reports off the evenings entertainment

Stevie Reid
06-09-2013, 11:05 AM
I'd like to go to one of these things but i honestly think i'd lose the plot. When asked straight forward questions like, "why are you still on the board after a horrific run of managers" they will no doubt go a long winding route. I view Petrie very much like a politician. If the lips are moving they are lying.

We could get 200 or 2000 people to go but if anyone truly believes our voice has any bearing on Petrie or what he wants to do they are sadly mistaken. He will continue to do it his way. He will continue to appoint rank managers and he will continue to be happy with Hibs finishing mid table. They say the best way to view things is look at the history as more often than not it repeats itself. We have been poor for to long under him. The day he walks out of Hibs will then be the day the club can finally move forward. Until then those who don't agree, just look at attendances to see my point. Folk really have had enough and until major change happens I don't blame them one bit for staying away.

A couple of weeks ago you made numerous posts in wake of the derby defeat, mostly attacking supporters who had backed Fenlon, but many others about the state of the club, including, IIRC, starting a thread entitled 'Soulless Club'.

Yet, a short while later you have an opportunity to tell Rod Petrie exactly what you think of him and you're going to avoid it, for very poor reasons, IMO. You've called Petrie a politician and guessed how he will answer questions, yet you yourself have come up with a list of excuses for not even going and asking them.

Hibernian Retro
06-09-2013, 11:15 AM
It is not clear what people who are interested in going to this should do?

oconnors_strip
06-09-2013, 11:16 AM
Will someone take proper and accurate minutes of the meeting?

Hibernian Retro
06-09-2013, 11:20 AM
Will someone take proper and accurate minutes of the meeting?

Audio recording must be made of this without fail. There are many Hibernian supporters who would love to attend this but can't for various reasons therefore it is only right that a recording is made and posted online for every one.

Thecat23
06-09-2013, 12:24 PM
A couple of weeks ago you made numerous posts in wake of the derby defeat, mostly attacking supporters who had backed Fenlon, but many others about the state of the club, including, IIRC, starting a thread entitled 'Soulless Club'.

Yet, a short while later you have an opportunity to tell Rod Petrie exactly what you think of him and you're going to avoid it, for very poor reasons, IMO. You've called Petrie a politician and guessed how he will answer questions, yet you yourself have come up with a list of excuses for not even going and asking them.

Attacking? More disbelief. For the record I can't go even if I wanted to go but thanks anyway for you're concern.

Greenblood70
06-09-2013, 12:40 PM
Will anything actually be learned from this meeting?

Rod is the master of the politicians answer and no matter how much people badger him for a straight answer if he doesn't want to answer then he won't.

I'm still stunned at the fact he categorically stated at the last Q&A that their is no intention bringing in a director of football or CEO, it's Rods way or nothing by the looks of things,

This for me is the main reason more people won't attend LWT - Rod's complete intransigence to any ideas that question his ability to run the football side. The consensus that came from the last meeting was pretty much we're stuck with Pat for the short to medium term and nothing about the structure of the continually failing football side of the club will be considered. I'm unsure how a DOF would work in practice but am open minded enough to recognise that we need some continuity above 1st Team Coaching that will carry out a vision of how the club plays and recruits players. Lets at least look at the idea and give it due consideration - the status quo just isn't working and is actively turning long term, passionate fans away from the club.

For me there are other issues but the above is the key driver for convinving the dissenters that the Board are open minded enough to consider something different and radical. Until serious action is taken on this everything else, comendable as it is, is just window dressing imho.

Stevie Reid
06-09-2013, 12:44 PM
Attacking? More disbelief. For the record I can't go even if I wanted to go but thanks anyway for you're concern.

Ok then...


Right who's the first twat to defend Pat? The "it's knee jerk stuff" "Only two games" "Give him time".

See you guys that have defended this clown, go and have a word with yourselves. Sticking with someone even my 3 year old boy knows isn't a manager.

Pat do me and everyone who actually knows how the game is played. F U C K O F F YOU ARSE.

GreenCastle
06-09-2013, 12:45 PM
Regarding records I think the club are trying to swerve this :rolleyes:

While I can see some things want to stay in house - surely a camcorder or an audio recorder can be used to tape this event so fans can listen to what was asked and said ? This is not involving kids - it's adults -surely consent can be made at the start if anyone has any objections - if you have nothing to hide then why not air it?

Regarding questions I hope people think long and hard about suitable questions with substance.

RP is a clever politician who will spin things and try and give bland answers so be wary of that.

There will be also people who can't make it - or live abroad so surely some questions can be asked for them ?

On the field -

I would like to know the Philosophy Fenlon sold / told to RP when he arrived - more than just hard to beat ? Shape / Formation ?
Was Leigh Griffiths offered to us last winter for a cut down fee ? If so why didn't we sign him then pay 200k for Collins?
What are the targets this season in the league ? What is the minimum target ?
Lack of quality players coming through from Academy - yes young players coming through but not many which are good enough to be sold for a good profit.


Off the field -

What is this so called 5 year plan and when did it start ?
Standing at the stadium ?
Overpriced and poor food at the stadium still - why ?
Club shop - lack of stock
Lack of identity around ER on outside of stadium
What's the plan if STF ever moves on ?
Advertising space empty in the West Stand?
Loyalty point scheme for ticket / merchandise purchases

Viva_Palmeiras
06-09-2013, 12:48 PM
Thanks VP. No need for apologies but mine in return if I was too blunt.

I'm not anti-LWT (despite what some of my posts might suggest). I think offering free labour to the club is great. I am just sceptical about how much the club want to change.

No worries Beefster we all want the same thing at the end of the day and it seems to be taking Hibs a hell of a long and winding road to get there!

It's healthy to be sceptical and I believe the LWT guys are not "boca abertos" ;) (open mouths).
However It's natural to resist change but the Vision team put forward a challenging proposal which has been presented to the board it's up to folks to ensure that is given due attention and priority. I believe that whilst some elements of the proposal will be a fundamental change and will need tweaking that there is recognition/support for some form of this/a Vision to be taken forward (again just my impression).

Attending LWT sessions helps confirm/form or maybe even revise impressions of attendees that's why I'm a strong advocate of attending - let the punters decide.

Thecat23
06-09-2013, 01:20 PM
Ok then...

Good find :D ok I was a little harsh. But still maintain the folk who back him either hate football or don't watch it for entertainment.

Corstorphine Hibby
06-09-2013, 01:52 PM
Another Nazi poster. Are you one of the ''bigger & better'' Hibs fans? :rolleyes:


Boris?!

That is all.

Throbber.

That is all.

Stevie Reid
06-09-2013, 02:02 PM
Good find :D ok I was a little harsh. But still maintain the folk who back him either hate football or don't watch it for entertainment.

:greengrin

To be honest, if you'd mentioned that you couldn't go to the meeting I would have said **** all, but you said that you would like to before giving lots of reasons why you wouldn't. Obviously you can't, but it would be better if posters who expressed their views as often and extremely as you do could manage to attend such things - along with posters with all different views, obviously.

With regards to Fenlon, the derby was my tipping point, I was backing him until then.

down-the-slope
06-09-2013, 02:04 PM
Audio recording must be made of this without fail. There are many Hibernian supporters who would love to attend this but can't for various reasons therefore it is only right that a recording is made and posted online for every one.

Not for me thanks.
LWT has been going for over a year, with volunteers and management working on various initiatives to benefit our club. There are regularly board members there and involved in working groups. Anyone who wants to roll up their sleeves and get involved - as many have - are welcome. This just happens to be our regular meeting which as always there is an open invite for people to attend (if they intimate desire before hand) but for others who have not been involved to demand it should be changed to this or that or this or that must be done seems a bit absurd

PS not picking on you particularly - several posters suggesting that video / audio should be done...Not something I or i'm sure others who got involved signed up for

Saorsa
06-09-2013, 02:38 PM
I'm surprised with the number of people that say this meeting is pointless, e.g. if regime change is not achievable, why bother going.

Surely the topics to be discussed are STILL worthwhile even if you think you might not get what you want MOST (e.g. Petrie out).


I'm unable to go to these events because of being 'geographically challenged' but I'd love to be able to go and have my views heard. If I didn't, that would just make me a 'keyboard loudmouth'.The only topic that matters insnae up for debate, that's Petrie's control of fitba matters. Fitba is what I pay hundreds of pounds a year for and I'm struggling tae remember the last time I left ER thinking that was worth the money I paid instead of leaving thinking I'd been conned again. I have nae interest in any of the embroidery or windae dressing that goes on around that and I have nae interest in discussing any future that has him as part of it, period, finished, end of story, etc, etc. He's already aware of my views.

Andy74
06-09-2013, 02:40 PM
:agree:

And surely the Management can see that.

I'm sure they can but perhaps they see the solution being something different to just sacking someone?

Andy74
06-09-2013, 02:51 PM
Good find :D ok I was a little harsh. But still maintain the folk who back him either hate football or don't watch it for entertainment.

Or perhaps think that the best chance of returning to decent football might be to let the current team and staff work at it?

Will sacking someone guarantee the entertainment?

Thecat23
06-09-2013, 02:53 PM
:greengrin

To be honest, if you'd mentioned that you couldn't go to the meeting I would have said **** all, but you said that you would like to before giving lots of reasons why you wouldn't. Obviously you can't, but it would be better if posters who expressed their views as often and extremely as you do could manage to attend such things - along with posters with all different views, obviously.

With regards to Fenlon, the derby was my tipping point, I was backing him until then.

You are right, and I'll hold my hands up about folk (myself included) who moan but don't really do much to change it. I think half the folk now don't really care enough after watching the dross for that long and are now just staying away. It's sad how things are turning out as we have all the foundations there but lacking where it's most needed. On the park!

Thecat23
06-09-2013, 02:56 PM
Or perhaps think that the best chance of returning to decent football might be to let the current team and staff work at it?

Will sacking someone guarantee the entertainment?

In no way is anything a guarantee and I'd be lying if I said it were. I personally think Pats a waste of space with his set up and style Andy. Only so much folk can take and it's been 2 years. Also this is his team so no excuse there. I still go but it's getting harder each time. Empty seats just says it all. How much time do you think is enough before you think it's not working? Serious question not a dig.

blackpoolhibs
06-09-2013, 02:58 PM
Or perhaps think that the best chance of returning to decent football might be to let the current team and staff work at it?

Will sacking someone guarantee the entertainment?

I can virtually guarantee crap football and diminishing crowds under the current manager.

Thecat23
06-09-2013, 03:02 PM
I can virtually guarantee crap football and diminishing crowds under the current manager.

Exactly how I see it BH. There is simply no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Andy74
06-09-2013, 03:29 PM
Exactly how I see it BH. There is simply no evidence to suggest otherwise.

There is. Early last year when we had the players to do it. We've had to renew this team again and we've been short of creative players. I'm willing to see how we do once we get one or two into the team.

Beefster
06-09-2013, 03:33 PM
There is. Early last year when we had the players to do it. We've had to renew this team again and we've been short of creative players. I'm willing to see how we do once we get one or two into the team.

I reckon you'll come up with another target when Zoubir gets into the team and we're still playing turgid, defensive hoofball.

RIP
06-09-2013, 04:41 PM
Would it help if I clarify a few things.

1 LWT is not a group. It is a Gateway.
2.It's a door, opened to allow supporters a look behind the scenes
3. If you want to go - fine
4. If not - also fine
5. Pm me if you want to go
6. These meetings are well run, all welcome

Hibernian Retro
06-09-2013, 05:00 PM
Would it help if I clarify a few things.

1 LWT is not a group. It is a Gateway.
2.It's a door, opened to allow supporters a look behind the scenes
3. If you want to go - fine
4. If not - also fine

Can you please give further information regarding going?

number 27
06-09-2013, 05:08 PM
Would it help if I clarify a few things.

1 LWT is not a group. It is a Gateway.
2.It's a door, opened to allow supporters a look behind the scenes
3. If you want to go - fine
4. If not - also fine
5. Pm me if you want to go
6. These meetings are well run, all welcome


It's a gateway and a door? is that possible?

Hibernian Retro
06-09-2013, 05:11 PM
It's a gateway and a door? is that possible?

Worm Hole?

lucky
06-09-2013, 05:20 PM
LWT is not a fans representative group but an opportunity for any fan to attend and question and participate with those running the club.

It can't become cliquey, it must remain open to all.

The fans who are involved do so volunteer so let's support them

RIP
06-09-2013, 05:20 PM
Can you please give further information regarding going?

I have over a dozen pms to catch up with after a busy day at work. Will get back to all the morns morn. Out to see a movie wi the oldest laddie and Mrs Gogs.

Not first come basis so no rush. Probably looking at 75 chairs laid out

Hibernian Retro
06-09-2013, 05:22 PM
I have over a dozen pms to catch up with after a busy day at work. Will get back to all the morns morn. Out to see a movie wi the oldest laddie and Mrs Gogs.

Not first come basis so no rush. Probably looking at 75 chairs laid out

Good man!

RIP
06-09-2013, 05:23 PM
It's a gateway and a door? is that possible?

Only if it's open

Thecat23
06-09-2013, 05:36 PM
There is. Early last year when we had the players to do it. We've had to renew this team again and we've been short of creative players. I'm willing to see how we do once we get one or two into the team.

One home league win in 2013 doesn't show me improvement. The football been poor. On the plus side the French lad from what I'm hearing is a cracking player who the players rate. So hopefully he brings pace to the team and Pat doesn't restrict him.

Viva_Palmeiras
06-09-2013, 06:35 PM
Regarding records I think the club are trying to swerve this :rolleyes:

While I can see some things want to stay in house - surely a camcorder or an audio recorder can be used to tape this event so fans can listen to what was asked and said ? This is not involving kids - it's adults -surely consent can be made at the start if anyone has any objections - if you have nothing to hide then why not air it?

Regarding questions I hope people think long and hard about suitable questions with substance.

RP is a clever politician who will spin things and try and give bland answers so be wary of that.

There will be also people who can't make it - or live abroad so surely some questions can be asked for them ?

On the field -

I would like to know the Philosophy Fenlon sold / told to RP when he arrived - more than just hard to beat ? Shape / Formation ?
Was Leigh Griffiths offered to us last winter for a cut down fee ? If so why didn't we sign him then pay 200k for Collins?
What are the targets this season in the league ? What is the minimum target ?
Lack of quality players coming through from Academy - yes young players coming through but not many which are good enough to be sold for a good profit.


Off the field -

What is this so called 5 year plan and when did it start ?
Standing at the stadium ?
Overpriced and poor food at the stadium still - why ?
Club shop - lack of stock
Lack of identity around ER on outside of stadium
What's the plan if STF ever moves on ?
Advertising space empty in the West Stand?
Loyalty point scheme for ticket / merchandise purchases

Couple of points to comment on.

On the academy its generally recognized (I also independently heard this from an Ayr United coach) that success of an academy is to provide 1 player a year to the first team squad. There's not as much money sloshing about Scottish football since SKY decided to let England prosper whilst we wither on the vine. Did we actually see the last (only?) big-bucks move with the likes of Broony, KT and Fletch - certainly dont see The Rangers shelling out as they did in the past in a long time.
It was acknowledged in one of the initial meetings (think it was Scott Lindsay) that the academy had not reaped the benefits they'd hoped (but on second thoughts that may have been in relation to the first team) certainly management knew they needed to get more return from the training centre. Personally I was always wary of the tag "conveyer belt" and as the golden generation established themselves thought whats to stop others doing the same or disrupting (I always thought Hearts or the OF might just decide to "hoover up" the young talent or the key to our success John Park?- thereby cutting off supply or tempting the young academy graduates at the most inconvenient times).

I wonder if the academy is to provide supply for the first team or to go further than that to produce players of quality so we can sell on - that would be the ultimate but in the academy's shoes how could you put a target figure on that?

Loyalty/CRM system (to know your customer - what, when and where they buy) was something I raised at the first LWT meeting. The club are aware of this and are taking steps to address. Step 1 is the purchase of a new system to manage the stadium (ticketing, access) and a component (depending on the system chosen) for loyalty etc so things are more "joined up". This could potentially be a relatively decent outlay for the club but process towards securing a system is underway (I believe its quite a way along the road on this although I'd imagine transition may be something best considered out of season? to minimise risk/disruption)

RIP
06-09-2013, 06:35 PM
Will someone take proper and accurate minutes of the meeting?

I've done meeting notes (we don't do minutes) in the past but it's not a job to be underestimated. On holiday next 2 weeks so not planning to be near a pc or laptop.

Mind you we will have 50 Hibs.netters reporting back on the answers given to their questions.

We ARE planning to capture actions though

Duns_Hibby
06-09-2013, 07:28 PM
Whilst I'm sure we want to embrace this initiative, I personally feel it's a box-ticking exercise. Here's the response I got from the Club last week on complaining about direction, quality and entertainment: Thank you for contacting the Club with your views. As thecustodians of the Club, the Board will do everything possible to ensure thewell being and success of your club. There is no lack ofambition. It can only be taken forward within the availableresources. The Club contested 5 national cup finals in the 15 yearsof the SPL and qualified for Europe on 6 occasions whilst at all times livingwithin its means. Performances in the league fluctuate. The team has had a difficult start to the season but following the closure ofthe transfer window we find ourselves with a talented squad of players who arecapable of improved performances. A stable platform at the Club ismore likely to deliver success than trying to do that against a background ofconstant change. We hope that you will be proud of your Club andcontinue to support your team through a difficult period.

Regards, Hibernian FC

Dunderhall
06-09-2013, 09:07 PM
I've done meeting notes (we don't do minutes) in the past but it's not a job to be underestimated. On holiday next 2 weeks so not planning to be near a pc or laptop.

Mind you we will have 50 Hibs.netters reporting back on the answers given to their questions.

We ARE planning to capture actions though
I'm not a door knocker :wink: but actions only capture one half of the story, i.e. the points agreed needing addressed.
It's just as important to note the questions which don't get an action and the response.

I realise it's a difficult thing to do for an individual, maybe a few .netters can agree to combine their own notes into one report to try and cover it as best as possible in one post.

Sometimes it's just as important to note the points that were rebutted/rejected for action.
i guess that's where the audio recording etc was coming from.

hibee_nation
06-09-2013, 09:59 PM
Whilst I'm sure we want to embrace this initiative, I personally feel it's a box-ticking exercise. Here's the response I got from the Club last week on complaining about direction, quality and entertainment: Thank you for contacting the Club with your views. As thecustodians of the Club, the Board will do everything possible to ensure thewell being and success of your club. There is no lack ofambition. It can only be taken forward within the availableresources. The Club contested 5 national cup finals in the 15 yearsof the SPL and qualified for Europe on 6 occasions whilst at all times livingwithin its means. Performances in the league fluctuate. The team has had a difficult start to the season but following the closure ofthe transfer window we find ourselves with a talented squad of players who arecapable of improved performances. A stable platform at the Club ismore likely to deliver success than trying to do that against a background ofconstant change. We hope that you will be proud of your Club andcontinue to support your team through a difficult period.

Regards, Hibernian FC


So what is wrong with that. The club took the time to answer your question. You don't like the answer but what did you expect them to say, your right Duns we should have listened to you and all would be rosy. Get Real.

GGTTH

greenpaper55
06-09-2013, 10:14 PM
Whilst I'm sure we want to embrace this initiative, I personally feel it's a box-ticking exercise. Here's the response I got from the Club last week on complaining about direction, quality and entertainment: Thank you for contacting the Club with your views. As thecustodians of the Club, the Board will do everything possible to ensure thewell being and success of your club. There is no lack ofambition. It can only be taken forward within the availableresources. The Club contested 5 national cup finals in the 15 yearsof the SPL and qualified for Europe on 6 occasions whilst at all times livingwithin its means. Performances in the league fluctuate. The team has had a difficult start to the season but following the closure ofthe transfer window we find ourselves with a talented squad of players who arecapable of improved performances. A stable platform at the Club ismore likely to deliver success than trying to do that against a background ofconstant change. We hope that you will be proud of your Club andcontinue to support your team through a difficult period.

Regards, Hibernian FC

And got beaten by the biggest score that any Scottish team has ever suffered !, this reads like the board are completely happy with what is going on , they just don't get it . This statement confirms my fears that the board are so out of touch with the support that it's frightening, if this is anything to go by then next wednesday will be a complete whitewash and not worth attending.

Viva_Palmeiras
06-09-2013, 10:47 PM
And got beaten by the biggest score that any Scottish team has ever suffered !, this reads like the board are completely happy with what is going on , they just don't get it . This statement confirms my fears that the board are so out of touch with the support that it's frightening, if this is anything to go by then next wednesday will be a complete whitewash and not worth attending.

Any more for pointless exercise? lets be avin' you and form an orderly queue for the told you so's please ;)

wazoo1875
06-09-2013, 10:56 PM
"And qualified for Europe 6 times in the last 15 years whilst living within it's means" biggest lot of pish ever. If that's the kind of pish they're trying to feed us then they're a bigger bunch of welts than I had them down for. I love hibs, I hate spin doctors.

RIP
06-09-2013, 11:05 PM
Any more for pointless exercise? lets be avin' you and form an orderly queue for the told you so's please ;)

Dinnae bite Mr T. There will be around 50-70 folk who will turn up out of the 20 odd thousand who were at the Cup Final. That's one Hibby in every 400.

The Q&A only takes up a wedge of the meeting. We want to hear ideas from supporters, not just listen to management.

RIP
06-09-2013, 11:10 PM
I'm not a door knocker :wink: but actions only capture one half of the story, i.e. the points agreed needing addressed.
It's just as important to note the questions which don't get an action and the response.

I realise it's a difficult thing to do for an individual, maybe a few .netters can agree to combine their own notes into one report to try and cover it as best as possible in one post.

That's it bud. There are no staff, no committee, no officials - just supporters. If you want notes you have to come along and take them yourself.

hibee_nation
06-09-2013, 11:14 PM
That's it bud. There are no staff, no committee, no officials - just supporters. If you want notes you have to come along and take them yourself.

That will be him scared off then. :greengrin

Dunderhall
06-09-2013, 11:39 PM
Dinnae bite Mr T. There will be around 50-70 folk who will turn up out of the 20 odd thousand who were at the Cup Final. That's one Hibby in every 400.

The Q&A only takes up a wedge of the meeting. We want to hear ideas from supporters, not just listen to management.
As per my previous point above, is it not important these issues from supporters are noted and the response given.

I will say again it's not a downer on the process, far from it, but can't we capture an agreed set of minutes if audio etc isn't an option. That's not necessarily you of course.
People do want to hear the management response to questions, regardless if there is no action to take forward.

Jack
07-09-2013, 07:07 AM
As per my previous point above, is it not important these issues from supporters are noted and the response given.

I will say again it's not a downer on the process, far from it, but can't we capture an agreed set of minutes if audio etc isn't an option. That's not necessarily you of course.
People do want to hear the management response to questions, regardless if there is no action to take forward.

LWT is a group of volunteers, each has individual talents they bring to the group but so far none of these have included minute taking - or at least none have admitted it!

Unless someone comes in and volunteers to take minutes the status quo will remain. It's as simple as that.

I'm not sure I can see audio or video being practical either. I think the simple part is the actual recording and the disclaimer notices. Getting a 3 hour meeting into something that is presentable for a mass audience I suspect is beyond the resources available to either LWT or the club.

RIP
07-09-2013, 12:48 PM
As per my previous point above, is it not important these issues from supporters are noted and the response given. Why can't we capture an agreed set of minutes.

Totally understand the point your making. We is the word that means not me, not you, not anyone

As Jack says man unless a person volunteers it won't happen. I also struggle with dyspraxia - that's why it takes me so long.

If only we knew an old fashioned audio /shorthand typist?

down-the-slope
07-09-2013, 01:13 PM
The Q&A only takes up a wedge of the meeting. We want to hear ideas from supporters, not just listen to management.

:agree: this is getting missed as mentioned previously.

This is regular LWT meeting which just happens to have Chairman doing Q&A in that slot. In the past we have had - The Manager / Head of Academy / Hibs CEO / Supporters Direct CEO & Author of SFA double act / CEO of Community Foundation / Volunteers sharing progress on their working group.....(and many other things If I took time to recall them)

I'm glad that so many are suddenly interested in being involved - roll up your sleeves and pitch in there's plenty to do to get our club where we want it.

Jonnyboy
07-09-2013, 01:32 PM
This month marks 17 years on the Board for RP. Is he no fed up yet? :greengrin

Edit: Within a fortnight, Alex Miller had resigned.

Saorsa
07-09-2013, 01:36 PM
This month marks 17 years on the Board for RP. Is he no fed up yet? :greengrinHe might no be but mair and mair fans are. Efter pish fitba I'd put my shirt on him being one of the next three top reasons for folk no going back tae ER.

Hibernian Retro
09-09-2013, 11:10 AM
Looking forward to this. Hope they have good biscuits for us!

GGTTH

The Hibernian Retro Team

RIP
09-09-2013, 11:32 AM
Thanks to those who applied by pm to come along on Wednesday, just caught up with them all today.

If you have been along to a meeting previously you will be on the list so no need to register. If anyone else fancies coming along (ALL are welcome) please note you need to register first by pm to me, then send info by email.

For building security please note that unfortunately we cannot grant access to those who are not registered by Tuesday 10pm

Notwithstanding these guidelines ANY Hibs supporter is welcome to register by that time

GGTTH

Hibernian Retro
09-09-2013, 11:36 AM
Thanks to those who applied by pm to come along on Wednesday, just caught up with them all today.

If you have been along to a meeting previously you will be on the list so no need to register. If anyone else fancies coming along (ALL are welcome) please note you need to register first by pm to me, then send info by email.

For building security please note that unfortunately we cannot grant access to those who are not registered by Tuesday 10pm

Notwithstanding these guidelines ANY Hibs supporter is welcome to register by that time

GGTTH

Have you made provision for either a full audio, visual recording or minutes to be taken?

B.H.F.C
09-09-2013, 11:51 AM
Thanks to those who applied by pm to come along on Wednesday, just caught up with them all today.

If you have been along to a meeting previously you will be on the list so no need to register. If anyone else fancies coming along (ALL are welcome) please note you need to register first by pm to me, then send info by email.

For building security please note that unfortunately we cannot grant access to those who are not registered by Tuesday 10pm

Notwithstanding these guidelines ANY Hibs supporter is welcome to register by that time

GGTTH

I fired you my details over as I haven't been before.

Might have missed it but what part of the stadium are we actually at?

The Green Goblin
09-09-2013, 12:49 PM
Have you made provision for either a full audio, visual recording or minutes to be taken?

Covered earlier in the thread, I think. If anyone who goes along wants to be kind enough to give some details on here afterwards, then I for one would appreciate it. I get the thing about going along if you want to be a part of it, but that's not so easy for me, :greengrin and a good few others, I suspect. Thanks to all those who give up their time to go along and I hope it is a productive meeting.

RIP
09-09-2013, 01:47 PM
Have you made provision for either a full audio visual recording to be taken?

Asked if HI could do but no on this occasion, David Forsyth will set out the reasons why. As I understand it there are a number of attendees who have other jobs (Board members, supporters) and/or who don't want to be on telly. Apparently it's not common for AGM's, annual review meetings to be filmed for those reasons.

However an annual review report will be published following the meeting and Hibs.Netters have undertaken to feed back their individual Q's & A's through these forums.


or minutes to be taken?

B - we are looking for a Hibby who is a shorthand typist, anyone know of any?


I fired you my details over as I haven't been before. Might have missed it but what part of the stadium are we actually at? Got it thanks IP. West stand - arrive 5.45 for 6pm

Hibbyradge
09-09-2013, 01:54 PM
Edit: Within a fortnight, Alex Miller had resigned.

And no one gave the Tache any credit for that either!
:wink:
.

Gerard
09-09-2013, 02:59 PM
One home league win in 2013 doesn't show me improvement. The football been poor. On the plus side the French lad from what I'm hearing is a cracking player who the players rate. So hopefully he brings pace to the team and Pat doesn't restrict him.

Or play the French lad as a left back or a GK:wink:

Jack
09-09-2013, 03:13 PM
Or play the French lad as a left back of a GK:wink:

Gérard, wash your bouche out with soap!

Jack
09-09-2013, 03:18 PM
B - we are looking for a Hibby who is a shorthand typist, anyone know of any?


With all due respect to the shorthand typists amongst us ... what we actually need is a minutes secretary and with the meeting anticipated to last 3 hours two would be better.

Gerard
09-09-2013, 03:31 PM
Gérard, wash your bouche out with soap!

Ouch:wink::greengrin

Ryan69
09-09-2013, 03:36 PM
And got beaten by the biggest score that any Scottish team has ever suffered !, this reads like the board are completely happy with what is going on , they just don't get it . This statement confirms my fears that the board are so out of touch with the support that it's frightening, if this is anything to go by then next wednesday will be a complete whitewash and not worth attending.

Maybe their appointments have not been spectacular....but im pretty sure were currently working on 2nd/3rd highest budget in the league.

Imagine we did make good managerial appointments though...we would be doing pretty good. We have to give Fenlon more of a chance though(with window being closed,and new players in).
At least were not taking gambles on our future...as they are saying.

The Green Goblin
09-09-2013, 10:38 PM
Or play the French lad as a left back or a GK:wink:

I was going to post exactly this....then I thought it wouldn't be worth the hassle it would probably attract. I salute your bravery sir! :greengrin

RIP
10-09-2013, 02:33 PM
Due to the interest in the Annual Review meeting I'd like to ask everyone who has registered to attend if they would kindly by arrive at reception by 5.45 pm to get checked in and take their seat.

If this time is tight for anyone coming straight from work please send me a pm before end of play tonight and I'll make sure the team on the door are aware to look out for you

1two
10-09-2013, 06:56 PM
Would I be over-cynical to suggest today's announcements are somehow in preparation for tomorrow's meeting?

Jack
10-09-2013, 07:58 PM
Would I be over-cynical to suggest today's announcements are somehow in preparation for tomorrow's meeting?

I think so. AGMs and all that legal stuff trump fans meetings by a considerable margin. :-)

RIP
10-09-2013, 08:12 PM
Would I be over-cynical to suggest today's announcements are somehow in preparation for tomorrow's meeting?

I was asked your question other way round in as to why supporters are running an annual review three weeks before the AGM. IIRC the accounts usually come out about this time but only shareholders can attend the AGM.

Think that management have raised their communication game in recent weeks as a result of Colin McNeil coming back and Rod, David Forsyth taking feedback from fans

Hibernian Retro
10-09-2013, 09:35 PM
How are number looking for this?

WhileTheChief..
11-09-2013, 06:23 PM
So is this meeting taking place just now??

Viva_Palmeiras
11-09-2013, 06:43 PM
So is this meeting taking place just now??

Barring catastrophe yes.

Jack
11-09-2013, 07:05 PM
So is this meeting taking place just now??

Left at half time ;-)

I'd say around 40ish of the 75 who said they'd be there turned up which IMO is a wee bit disheartening for the guys who put in their own time to make these things happen.

Not for a minute am I even considering doing an update on my phone :-)

A good few new folk there who appeared to be fair chuffed at the way the meeting went - even if it was just a better understanding of the way the club is run and why things are sometimes not as they appear.

lyonhibs
11-09-2013, 07:24 PM
I assume all the relevant equipment/preparations were in place for the meeting to be fully relayed and recorded in semaphore, morse code and interpretative mime?

If not, GTF.

B.H.F.C
11-09-2013, 08:42 PM
Just in from the meeting. Fair play to the board for doing it and to the guys that organise it.

Petrie took a bit of a grilling but didn't give much away as usual. When pressed on what target Fenlon has been set he worked his way round it and would only say that we want to finish as high as possible. Pretty standard stuff. He was keen to point out that since the inception of the 12 team SPL we have the best performance after Celtic, Rangers and Hearts. And that we have had more cup finals than anyone outside the Old Firm. I'm not really sure what relevance that had to the current situation. He was very defensive of McPake at one point talking of how he's put his body on the line.

A lot of what was said was to do with communication. I genuinely think the club are trying to address this now.

Overall there wasn't anything earth shattering. My main reason for going was to hear the views of the board on the football side of things. Most questions were sidestepped IMO, despite the best efforts of those asking. The one thing that Rod was very clear about was that he is completely behind Pat be believes that our best chance of turning things around is by keeping stability. Again, this wasn't anything that had been said before.

kentao
11-09-2013, 08:45 PM
Thanks for the update. Looks like its going to be a long season ahead with Fenlon in charge still hoping the manager AGM chop will happen again this year.

stokesmessiah
11-09-2013, 09:00 PM
Thanks for the update. Looks like its going to be a long season ahead with Fenlon in charge still hoping the manager AGM chop will happen again this year.


Not a hope thats going to happen.

Hibbyradge
11-09-2013, 09:01 PM
Thanks for the update. Looks like its going to be a long season ahead with Fenlon in charge still hoping the manager AGM chop will happen again this year.

I hope we turn things around by keeping stability.

Weststandwanab
11-09-2013, 09:05 PM
Left at half time ;-)

I'd say around 40ish of the 75 who said they'd be there turned up which IMO is a wee bit disheartening for the guys who put in their own time to make these things happen.

Not for a minute am I even considering doing an update on my phone :-)

A good few new folk there who appeared to be fair chuffed at the way the meeting went - even if it was just a better understanding of the way the club is run and why things are sometimes not as they appear.
I would agree disheartening for all concerned if 40% of the people who registered to go did not.

Just in from the meeting. Fair play to the board for doing it and to the guys that organise it.

Petrie took a bit of a grilling but didn't give much away as usual. When pressed on what target Fenlon has been set he worked his way round it and would only say that we want to finish as high as possible. Pretty standard stuff. He was keen to point out that since the inception of the 12 team SPL we have the best performance after Celtic, Rangers and Hearts. And that we have had more cup finals than anyone outside the Old Firm. I'm not really sure what relevance that had to the current situation. He was very defensive of McPake at one point talking of how he's put his body on the line.

A lot of what was said was to do with communication. I genuinely think the club are trying to address this now.

Overall there wasn't anything earth shattering. My main reason for going was to hear the views of the board on the football side of things. Most questions were sidestepped IMO, despite the best efforts of those asking. The one thing that Rod was very clear about was that he is completely behind Pat be believes that our best chance of turning things around is by keeping stability. Again, this wasn't anything that had been said before.
I went for the same reasons - did not think RP took anywhere near a grilling and I would imagine it is all a bit repetitive which he dealt with easily.

Thanks for the update. Looks like its going to be a long season ahead with Fenlon in charge still hoping the manager AGM chop will happen again this year.
I would not bet against there being a famous pre A.G.M. chop and that is not a catering term.

B.H.F.C
11-09-2013, 09:12 PM
I would agree disheartening for all concerned if 40% of the people who registered to go did not.

I went for the same reasons - did not think RP took anywhere near a grilling and I would imagine it is all a bit repetitive which he dealt with easily.

I would not bet against there being a famous pre A.G.M. chop and that is not a catering term.

To be fair a grilling was maybe a bit of a strong word. I did think there were certain questions that he was really pushed on though. The problem was that he was never going to give anything away. He would have knew what he was going to be asked and wod pretty much have heard it before.

Hibernian Retro
11-09-2013, 09:22 PM
Roll on the AGM!

Viva_Palmeiras
11-09-2013, 09:29 PM
Did the meeting go off piste ? Understandable focus on the Q&A but Nothing about the review of the past year with LWT?

I would have been present but advised Gogs in advance I'm out of action with conjunctivitis ATM.

down-the-slope
11-09-2013, 10:00 PM
Good to see a fair number of newbies at meeting - hopefully they got a flavour of what we do / have done and some will roll up their sleeves and pitch in longer term.

Have to say when you look at what has been done by LWT over last 12/15 months you have to be proud of those fellow Hibbies and management who have pitched in. Much done and much more to do :agree:

Things that stick in the mind....

After much dialogue about communication - and how it should / could / must be better during Q&A..... when Gogs gave summary of initial 5 LWT working groups in report back and noted that Communication group had failed to flourish......HHmmmm

Kevin's stats on on-pitch performance were really great...and topped by his hope that one day we would be able to dance down Easter Road holding the balance sheet and a cup :tee hee:

FranckSuzy
11-09-2013, 10:01 PM
Did the meeting go off piste ? Understandable focus on the Q&A but Nothing about the review of the past year with LWT?

I would have been present but advised Gogs in advance I'm out of action with conjunctivitis ATM.

DTS gave a summary of the Green Views findings, PatHead gave an analysis of past performances/attendances/placings etc., I gave a talk on Leith Links (:wink:) and Gogs gave a run-down of LWT projects past, present and future :aok:

Mikey
11-09-2013, 10:05 PM
A good few new folk there who appeared to be fair chuffed at the way the meeting went - even if it was just a better understanding of the way the club is run and why things are sometimes not as they appear.

I think that's particularly important and why I keep banging on about people going to the AGM. It's better to see it for yourself than hear 3rd hand from someone who has an angle.

PISTOL1875
11-09-2013, 10:09 PM
That was he first time I had attended a LWT meeting , my sole purpose was to see how the board answered question that were put to them and what plans are being done to take the club forward..

As posted , a poor show from the people who had registered to turn up and didn't. Well done to the guys who prepared the slide show at the start and others who put there time and effort into the night..

Rod answered the questions in typical Rod fashion.. Not giving much away and flirting with the answer we are looking to hear.. His backing of the board , Fenlon and McPake especially was evident and no chance was he going to change his stance on that..

A lot of positive feedback from the board but whether or not the plans are put into place to improve things such as communcation between the board and fans to stop the '' us and them '' feeling that some members feel is there.

FranckSuzy
11-09-2013, 10:12 PM
I think that's particularly important and why I keep banging on about people going to the AGM. It's better to see it for yourself than hear 3rd hand from someone who has an angle.

:agree:


The Board were keen to stress that they know communication with the support has not always been satisfactory and David Forsyth stated that he hopes to have addressed at least some of the issues by the next LWT meeting.

They did express some frustration about the lack of response to positive moves, i.e. the no booking fees announcement. Not a peep communicated to them, compared to the outpouring of moans and groans when an announcement is perceived as negative.

blackpoolhibs
11-09-2013, 10:14 PM
Any news on our new 5 year plan, has it started yet? What about opening the FF to standing?

oconnors_strip
11-09-2013, 10:19 PM
Any news on our new 5 year plan, has it started yet? What about opening the FF to standing?

The FF is currently being changed to all standing in lower tier, Petrie is removing the seats as I type!







Nah seriously it wasn't brought up tonight

down-the-slope
11-09-2013, 10:22 PM
The FF is currently being changed to all standing in lower tier, Petrie is removing the seats as I type!







Nah seriously it wasn't brought up tonight

It was..albeit briefly

FranckSuzy
11-09-2013, 10:22 PM
The FF is currently being changed to all standing in lower tier, Petrie is removing the seats as I type!







Nah seriously it wasn't brought up tonight

:tee hee:


Gogs mentioned it briefly but it was never discussed with the board :agree:

The Modfather
11-09-2013, 10:29 PM
Did anyone ask about the "5 year plan" that appeared out of thin air but no actual details of which were divulged? Or what the plan has been for the last 6 years?

Petrie picking and choosing what he wants to answer, sounds very familiar!

blackpoolhibs
11-09-2013, 10:32 PM
So basically nothing really happened tonight, just the same evasive answers from the board, and a wee moan they never got any praise for removing the booking fee?

FranckSuzy
11-09-2013, 10:33 PM
Did anyone ask about the "5 year plan" that appeared out of thin air but no actual details of which were divulged? Or what the plan has been for the last 6 years?

Petrie picking and choosing what he wants to answer, sounds very familiar!

No-one asked! :greengrin He answered, in the way only he can, all the questions he was asked :wink:

blackpoolhibs
11-09-2013, 10:41 PM
No-one asked! :greengrin He answered, in the way only he can, all the questions he was asked :wink:

Suzy, is it any wonder folk don't bother turning up? What has tonights meeting and the last one a couple of weeks ago actually achieved?

We can skirt around the periphery of our problems, but if we had a decent team on the park nobody would give a toss about communication, 5 year plans or a standing area in the east or even on the roof.

It all smacks of stalling tactics to keep the fans onside for as long as possible, in the hope Fenlon can get it right.

Saorsa
11-09-2013, 10:49 PM
So basically nothing really happened tonight, just the same evasive answers from the board, and a wee moan they never got any praise for removing the booking fee?Quelle surprise! :rolleyes:


Suzy, is it any wonder folk don't bother turning up? What has tonights meeting and the last one a couple of weeks ago actually achieved?

We can skirt around the periphery of our problems, but if we had a decent team on the park nobody would give a toss about communication, 5 year plans or a standing area in the east or even on the roof.

It all smacks of stalling tactics to keep the fans onside for as long as possible, in the hope Fenlon can get it right.:agree:

http://roofframer.com/images/square-root-symbol.jpg**** all

B.H.F.C
11-09-2013, 10:55 PM
Just a further thought from me on tonight.

A lot of the meeting was to do with communication. It's all fair and well the club communicqting with us but if the content of what they are telling us is crap then its a waste of time.

Petrie was pushed on what kind of targets fenlon has and he wouldn't say. It was just the usual stuff about wanting to be challenging at the top end of the league etc. It doesn't matter who is there asking what, Petrie would give absolutely nothing away. The mysterious 5 year plan would have drawn the same kind of response. We won't ever know what it is becaus he is setting himself up for a fall if a certain phase isn't met.

in terms of the LWT guys they do some good stuff but the main reason I wanted to go was to see what the board had to say. I didn't really find out anything I didn't know already.

bigstu
11-09-2013, 10:59 PM
Suzy, is it any wonder folk don't bother turning up? What has tonights meeting and the last one a couple of weeks ago actually achieved?

We can skirt around the periphery of our problems, but if we had a decent team on the park nobody would give a toss about communication, 5 year plans or a standing area in the east or even on the roof.

It all smacks of stalling tactics to keep the fans onside for as long as possible, in the hope Fenlon can get it right.

:agree::agree:

RIP
11-09-2013, 11:23 PM
:agree::agree:

Quick update before kip.

22 people registered to attend and 45 turned up. We had laid out 70 seats just in case. There is now a list of 120 people that have attended meetings over the past year. There were only 12-15 at the first few meetings so things appear to be growing slowly and evenly.

The Q&A takes place every month, tonight's meeting was the best attended by the board. Between the closed meeting last month and this open meeting many felt a disconnect between the boards focus on cup runs, season tickets and year-on-year improvements on and off the park and the perceptions of supporters.

IMO we need more supporters to attend these meetings and pose questions on the unacceptable product on the park. There were some very direct questions tonight, but not nearly enough emphasis on the restoration of Winning the Hibernian Way.

Until that project is fully implemented throughout our club, I don't think supporters will find the improvements they seek. The main work gets done BETWEEN meetings, these sessions are only for progress reports and to get proposals passed by management

The forthcoming meeting will include a trip to East Mains. PM if interested

RIP
11-09-2013, 11:28 PM
Oh and I did give an update on the "Return of the Cave" project. Club secretary Garry O'Hagan has been promised a report and a team of volunteers has pitched up for a wee bit research and survey. Once that's ready we will get round the table with management.

We are still waiting to hear back from the poster who has been pushing this for the past year.

Saorsa
11-09-2013, 11:38 PM
Quick update before kip.

22 people registered to attend and 45 turned up. We had laid out 70 seats just in case. There is now a list of 120 people that have attended meetings over the past year. There were only 12-15 at the first few meetings so things appear to be growing slowly and evenly.

The Q&A takes place every month, tonight's meeting was the best attended by the board. Between the closed meeting last month and this open meeting many felt a disconnect between the boards focus on cup runs, season tickets and year-on-year improvements on and off the park and the perceptions of supporters.

IMO we need more supporters to attend these meetings and pose questions on the unacceptable product on the park. There were some very direct questions tonight, but not nearly enough emphasis on the restoration of Winning the Hibernian Way.

Until that project is fully implemented throughout our club, I don't think supporters will see the improvements they seek.Pose the questions that he'll never answer nae matter how many times they're asked? The parts post I've quoted below say it all. Anybody who thinks they're going tae turn up tae these meetings and get a straight answer on anything he disnae want tae answer is kidding themselves on.


Originally Posted by B.H.F.Chttp://www.hibs.net/images/hibsnet/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?p=3745473#post3745473)
When pressed on what target Fenlon has been set he worked his way round it


Most questions were sidestepped IMO, despite the best efforts of those asking.
What I find unbelievable is that efter all these years people still turn up tae these things expecting anything different. What I find laughable is that people turn up tae these things thinking they're going tae be grilling Petrie, he'll be at hame now laughing up his sleeve having fobbed everybody off yet again. Anybody who thinks they're going tae have a meaningful discussion with that man on any subject he disnae want tae discuss is kidding themselves on. Nothing that Petrie disnae want tae change will change. Complete and utter waste of time.

blackpoolhibs
11-09-2013, 11:41 PM
Oh and I did give an update on the "Return of the Cave" project. Club secretary Garry O'Hagan has been promised a report and a team of volunteers has pitched up for a wee bit research and survey. Once that's ready we will get round the table with management.

We are still waiting to hear back from the poster who has been pushing this for the past year.

And you will wait a lot longer.

Jack
12-09-2013, 12:02 AM
Suzy, is it any wonder folk don't bother turning up? What has tonights meeting and the last one a couple of weeks ago actually achieved?

We can skirt around the periphery of our problems, but if we had a decent team on the park nobody would give a toss about communication, 5 year plans or a standing area in the east or even on the roof.

It all smacks of stalling tactics to keep the fans onside for as long as possible, in the hope Fenlon can get it right.

Ok I'll bite :-)

The first meeting was to representatives of a broad range of the Hibs support, tonights was open.

There's no disagreement from me with what's in the second paragraph. My personal interpretation of what Rod said was that our target is forth, others may disagree. By some reckoning that's where we where - albeit our current situation is pish, but it's not as pish as some make out over an extended period.

He, Rod, stated in the time of the SPL our average had been 6.5 - I took from this that on average half the time we're in the top 6 and the other half in the bottom 6 and that wasn't good enough. Rod says bottom 6 isn't good enough.

Patience is a virtue we Hibbies tend to be blessed with, patients is what we're likely to become :-)

As a friend said to me recently "Being a Hibs fan was never easy, but it's getting beyond the abilities of mere mortals these days."

I think this, and all the other seasons its been said before, is a make or break season for us, the next match is the most important of the season.

We're both old enough to know this dip in form over the last 6(0) years isn't permanent ... aren't we?

HUTCHYHIBBY
12-09-2013, 12:04 AM
So basically nothing really happened tonight, just the same evasive answers from the board, and a wee moan they never got any praise for removing the booking fee?

Exactly. Do they really think anyone would give a flying one about paying a booking fee if what was going on on the pitch was worth paying for.

1two
12-09-2013, 06:17 AM
Exactly. Do they really think anyone would give a flying one about paying a booking fee if what was going on on the pitch was worth paying for.

And do you really think a monthly meeting of 40 fans is going to change our on field fortunes??

If LWT pushed for booking fees to be abolished, which I believe they did, then that's a positive.

Viva_Palmeiras
12-09-2013, 06:33 AM
Exactly. Do they really think anyone would give a flying one about paying a booking fee if what was going on on the pitch was worth paying for.

Ah, you're serious !?

People have been complaining about ticket prices and the booking fee as the sting in the tail including the Cup Finals iirc for years so the answer to your question in my opinion is a big yes especially in these tricky times financially every bit helps.

greenpaper55
12-09-2013, 06:57 AM
Petrie might not have given anything away but the fact that they have had to mount this charm offensive speaks volumes, somehow the board are under pressure and maybe it's reading things on here or just plain abuse getting shouted at games but they now know the fans have them in their sights. For years the managers have carried the can for year after year of failure but now the emphasis has changed to pointing the finger at the board and there is no way back for them unless results improve even with the new love in with the fans.

down-the-slope
12-09-2013, 07:10 AM
I'm disappointed a number who didn't attend found it 'a waste of time'

RyeSloan
12-09-2013, 07:16 AM
Petrie might not have given anything away but the fact that they have had to mount this charm offensive speaks volumes, somehow the board are under pressure and maybe it's reading things on here or just plain abuse getting shouted at games but they now know the fans have them in their sights. For years the managers have carried the can for year after year of failure but now the emphasis has changed to pointing the finger at the board and there is no way back for them unless results improve even with the new love in with the fans.

Not sure I agree. There has been a hardcore rump of the support that has been anti-Petrie for as long as I remember....the negative sentiment towards him and the board in general is never far away.

If its not been speculate to accumulate its been disagreement on the infrastructure spending or rumours he was pocketing cash on the fly from the sale of the car park etc etc etc

Right or wrong this has been a bit of a cancer at the club and does not help the club and support to act as one.

Hibernian Retro
12-09-2013, 07:17 AM
After speaking with a number of people who attended the LWT meeting last night there are a few positives to be taken and everybody behind LWT should be commended for everything they have done and tried to achieve over the last few years. Let’s hope they can continue to build on the support.

The main consensus amongst many fans is that the board is used to dealing with them in a relaxed manner like last night, sitting around drinking cups of tea and eating biscuits and crisps which by all accounts was even difficult to organize which says a lot about the people who are in charge of the club. Contact between fan and club is something that seems to be a hugely contentious issue for many fans BUT! By far the most important factor is what’s happening on the park and it’s evident that having a meeting with the board will have absolutely no bearing on this whatsoever. Should things continue to decline in terms of how players apply themselves when playing for Hibernian FC then we feel that a far more aggressive approach will have to be adopted by us fans against the board and the management as it’s all to plain to see that the softly softly approach is not working.


Rod Petrie has to be given credit for his continued work on the financials but that’s what he’s there for at the end of day. It is often said that Pat Fenlon is a nice guy but we have now seen enough evidence that he lacks tactical ability and offers absolutely no real motivation for the players. There’s now a genuine sense of apathy starting to grow amongst fans over what’s happening on the park and behind the scenes at Easter Road and the longer this continues then the worse things will become.

As fans of such a proud and historic football club we simply cannot stand by and watch its decline and do nothing about it in the process. If things carry on as they are and the team continues to show a lack of passion and desire to win a match, then a different route by the fans must be adopted starting with a show of force at the forthcoming A.G.M. The Hibernian Retro Team will be attending the A.G.M. and in doing so making ourselves heard in no uncertain circumstances.


GGTTH The Hibernian Retro Team – www.facebook.com/hibernianretro (http://www.facebook.com/hibernianretro)



PS. Excuse the grammar!

matty_f
12-09-2013, 07:17 AM
I'm disappointed a number who didn't attend found it 'a waste of time'

:agree: disappointed but not surprised.

Beefster
12-09-2013, 07:23 AM
A thread mentions a Q&A/LWT meeting.

A poster says it will be a waste of time.

LWT attendee gets arsey.

A poster suggests that LWT is tinkering at the edges.

LWT attendee gets arsey.

A poster suggests that Rodders loves to evade questions.

LWT attendee gets arsey.

Ad infinitum.

FWIW, if LWT\the support isn't privy to the fabled "Five Year Plan" and/or the club's targets for the season, it's not an equal partnership IMHO. I'd question the motivation of Rodders and co.

"We'll work with you but don't expect to find out anything important"

P.S. If the club really are complaining about getting complaints regularly but subsequently not being deluged with telephone/letter/email praise for scrapping the online booking fee (they obviously don't read Hibs.net) then I'd be worried about the mindset of folk at Hibs.

Steve20
12-09-2013, 07:26 AM
Pretty standard stuff. He was keen to point out that since the inception of the 12 team SPL we have the best performance after Celtic, Rangers and Hearts. And that we have had more cup finals than anyone outside the Old Firm.

1. Does he think that's impressive, being behind Hearts performance wise?

2. We've won one out of our five cup finals in that time. He can say we've been in more cup finals than anyone outside the Old Firm but big deal. When you lose 80% of them, it's not that impressive. Cup finals are only good if you win them.


These meetings are all well and good, but the true proof that he has no idea is the fact that he's kept Pat Fenlon, when it's clear to everyone that he should no longer be manager.

Viva_Palmeiras
12-09-2013, 07:34 AM
A thread mentions a Q&A/LWT meeting.

A poster says it will be a waste of time.

LWT attendee gets arsey.

A poster suggests that LWT is tinkering at the edges.

LWT attendee gets arsey.

A poster suggests that Rodders loves to evade questions.

LWT attendee gets arsey.

Ad infinitum.

FWIW, if LWT\the support isn't privy to the fabled "Five Year Plan" and/or the club's targets for the season, it's not an equal partnership IMHO. I'd question the motivation of Rodders and co.

"We'll work with you but don't expect to find out anything important"

P.S. If the club really are complaining about getting complaints regularly but subsequently not being deluged with telephone/letter/email praise for scrapping the online booking fee (they obviously don't read Hibs.net) then I'd be worried about the mindset of folk at Hibs.

"Mother it's happening again..."

Why let the debate get in the way of a gross over-simplification?

Saorsa
12-09-2013, 07:40 AM
I'm disappointed a number who didn't attend found it 'a waste of time'What about the comments on here by some who did attend, the ones that said once again the questions on the only subject that really matters were sidestepped once again? Is their opinion that it was a waste of time valid in your opinion? What did this meeting regarding that particular subject achieve this time? Lets hear it!

p.s. I'm still waiting tae hear/see what the previous meeting achieved other than that banal statement that was released that was similar in content tae the many other banal statements released on the same subject previously.

B.H.F.C
12-09-2013, 07:54 AM
1. Does he think that's impressive, being behind Hearts performance wise?

2. We've won one out of our five cup finals in that time. He can say we've been in more cup finals than anyone outside the Old Firm but big deal. When you lose 80% of them, it's not that impressive. Cup finals are only good if you win them.


These meetings are all well and good, but the true proof that he has no idea is the fact that he's kept Pat Fenlon, when it's clear to everyone that he should no longer be manager.

I completely agree. Just pointing out what the man said. I didn't see what relevance it had to our current situation.

blackpoolhibs
12-09-2013, 07:58 AM
Ok I'll bite :-)

The first meeting was to representatives of a broad range of the Hibs support, tonights was open.

There's no disagreement from me with what's in the second paragraph. My personal interpretation of what Rod said was that our target is forth, others may disagree. By some reckoning that's where we where - albeit our current situation is pish, but it's not as pish as some make out over an extended period.

The reason these Q&A meetings have been hastily arranged is because we have been pish for the best part of 6 years, on the back of being told to be a little patient while the infrastructure was built.

He, Rod, stated in the time of the SPL our average had been 6.5 - I took from this that on average half the time we're in the top 6 and the other half in the bottom 6 and that wasn't good enough. Rod says bottom 6 isn't good enough.

At last, he's said something the vast majority of us agree with.

Patience is a virtue we Hibbies tend to be blessed with, patients is what we're likely to become :-)

This is wearing a bit thin now dont you think?

As a friend said to me recently "Being a Hibs fan was never easy, but it's getting beyond the abilities of mere mortals these days."

Selling our best players for a good deal of money, and that money used to built a new training centre, a new ground and the club now has the best of everything bar what we really go along to easter road to see.

And being asked for patience while we did this, you'd think after this was done and the fans have been more patient than a saint, things WOULD be a little easier by now.

I think this, and all the other seasons its been said before, is a make or break season for us, the next match is the most important of the season.

Now where have i heard this before?

We're both old enough to know this dip in form over the last 6(0) years isn't permanent ... aren't we?

Are we, when we have 2 of our biggest clubs either out the league or playing kids and minus 15 points, this club SHOULD be challenging for a top 2 finish, not top 6 or top 4, but challenging for a top 2 finish.

And the bean counter who HAS done well, thats something i have constantly said with running the club off the field, has FAILED miserably at the reason we support Hibs.

And to cap it off, we now hear we have a new 5 year plan that nobody is allowed to know about, and a manager who's targets are a secret too.

Is it any wonder supporters are sceptical?

Saorsa
12-09-2013, 08:08 AM
Are we, when we have 2 of our biggest clubs either out the league or playing kids and minus 15 points, this club SHOULD be challenging for a top 2 finish, not top 6 or top 4, but challenging for a top 2 finish.

And the bean counter who HAS done well, thats something i have constantly said with running the club off the field, has FAILED miserably at the reason we support Hibs.

And to cap it off, we now hear we have a new 5 year plan that nobody is allowed to know about, and a manager who's targets are a secret too.

Is it any wonder supporters are sceptical?Indeed, I find it hard tae believe anybody really actually thinks they have an honest and equal working partnership with this man who continually refuses tae give any kind of straight answer tae any straightforward question he is asked and instead spins them a load of auld fanny and treats them like mushrooms by keeping them in the dark and throwing them a handful of **** now and again.

Beefster
12-09-2013, 08:09 AM
"Mother it's happening again..."

Why let the debate get in the way of a gross over-simplification?

It's the way I see it, I'm afraid, and I'd be surprised if I'm alone. Defending the facts/details is fine. Digs about people not attending isn't. If LWT don't want comments from non-attendees, they shouldn't post the details on a public forum with hundreds of different personalities.

About the rest of my post (that you ignored) - it doesn't concern you that you are putting valuable time into 'working with the club' but they won't share the two most important business details with you/the support? I can just about see why they'd be reluctant to share Fenlon's targets (they'd have no room for manoeuvre if he didn't meet them) but I can't see the rationale behind not sharing the "Five Year Plan", other than it doesn't exist.

blackpoolhibs
12-09-2013, 08:13 AM
It's the way I see it, I'm afraid, and I'd be surprised if I'm alone. Defending the facts/details is fine. Digs about people not attending isn't. If LWT don't want comments from non-attendees, they shouldn't post the details on a public forum with hundreds of different personalities.

About the rest of my post (that you ignored) - it doesn't concern you that you are putting valuable time into 'working with the club' but they won't share the two most important business details with you/the support? I can just about see why they'd be reluctant to share Fenlon's targets (they'd have no room for manoeuvre if he didn't meet them) but I can't see the rationale behind not sharing the "Five Year Plan", other than it doesn't exist.

I don't, Fenlon was quite happy to tell anyone who'd listen his remit when he first arrived at the club was to keep it in the league.

He's happy to tell us when he hits those targets, the club should have targets.

Beefster
12-09-2013, 08:17 AM
I don't, Fenlon was quite happy to tell anyone who'd listen his remit when he first arrived at the club was to keep it in the league.

He's happy to tell us when he hits those targets, the club should have targets.

I agree they should tell us. From Rodders' point of view though, if he tells us that Fenlon's target is quarters of both cups and top 4, it'll be used by everyone to assess Fenlon at the end of the season. If he keeps us clueless, he can revise the targets at the end of the season to suit his purposes and no-one can accuse him of lying.

blackpoolhibs
12-09-2013, 08:23 AM
I agree they should tell us. From Rodders' point of view though, if he tells us that Fenlon's target is quarters of both cups and top 4, it'll be used by everyone to assess Fenlon at the end of the season. If he keeps us clueless, he can revise the targets at the end of the season to suit his purposes and no-one can accuse him of lying.

Cups are different, we should be targeting getting through the seeded rounds. After that its a lottery, we could draw Celtic away and that would always be difficult to win.

Nobody can ever accuse Petrie of lying, because he will never tell us anything in the first place. Now i'm never going to compare us to the old firm, but in a normal season they both have targets to win the league and cups, and have decent runs in Europe.

The last target i have heard anyone at easter road tell us about, was Fenlon target of keeping us in the league. :rolleyes:

Saorsa
12-09-2013, 08:27 AM
Cups are different, we should be targeting getting through the seeded rounds. After that its a lottery, we could draw Celtic away and that would always be difficult to win.

Nobody can ever accuse Petrie of lying, because he will never tell us anything in the first place. Now i'm never going to compare us to the old firm, but in a normal season they both have targets to win the league and cups, and have decent runs in Europe.

The last target i have heard anyone at easter road tell us about, was Fenlon target of keeping us in the league. :rolleyes:maybe that is still the target :rolleyes: the way we're playing that'll be an achievement.

DaveF
12-09-2013, 08:32 AM
It's the way I see it, I'm afraid, and I'd be surprised if I'm alone. Defending the facts/details is fine. Digs about people not attending isn't. If LWT don't want comments from non-attendees, they shouldn't post the details on a public forum with hundreds of different personalities.

About the rest of my post (that you ignored) - it doesn't concern you that you are putting valuable time into 'working with the club' but they won't share the two most important business details with you/the support? I can just about see why they'd be reluctant to share Fenlon's targets (they'd have no room for manoeuvre if he didn't meet them) but I can't see the rationale behind not sharing the "Five Year Plan", other than it doesn't exist.

Top post Beefster. Agree 100%

greenlex
12-09-2013, 08:43 AM
1. Does he think that's impressive, being behind Hearts performance wise?

2. We've won one out of our five cup finals in that time. He can say we've been in more cup finals than anyone outside the Old Firm but big deal. When you lose 80% of them, it's not that impressive. Cup finals are only good if you win them.


These meetings are all well and good, but the true proof that he has no idea is the fact that he's kept Pat Fenlon, when it's clear to everyone that he should no longer be manager.
I think the point is its the best performance outside the biggest spenders of which two ave shot heir bolt.
he obviously missed the point of how bad the performance has been the last three years.

Viva_Palmeiras
12-09-2013, 08:51 AM
It's the way I see it, I'm afraid, and I'd be surprised if I'm alone. Defending the facts/details is fine. Digs about people not attending isn't. If LWT don't want comments from non-attendees, they shouldn't post the details on a public forum with hundreds of different personalities.

About the rest of my post (that you ignored) - it doesn't concern you that you are putting valuable time into 'working with the club' but they won't share the two most important business details with you/the support? I can just about see why they'd be reluctant to share Fenlon's targets (they'd have no room for manoeuvre if he didn't meet them) but I can't see the rationale behind not sharing the "Five Year Plan", other than it doesn't exist.

That's fine we're all entitled to our opinions. I'd propose to move away from "digs" on either side I think we can agree that that aspect is just a side show ?

For reasons mentioned previously I was not present and I've not spoken to those in attendance. From the reports here ive read (been dealing with the kids so may have missed one or two) I like others were surprised there was little / no mention of the 5 year plan that was the "cliff-hanger" of the last meeting (albeit not an LWT one as this was).

Partnerships are built on trust and I believe that has grown over the year. An equal partnership? Through work I've not been able to attend all meetings but in relation to the 5 year plan that's a new one on me and one I would have asked about had I been there. There will be commercially sensitive aspects that would be difficult/impossible to share but I'd like to think the 5 year plan would have a large element that could and should be shared.so I'm with you I want to know more details.

On Fenlons targets does any club share that - I'm asking as I don't know.

I do think that context matters - just like the concern you mention regarding complaints it was one opint in a long meeting.

Fenlon probably is judged on a number of things league positions being just one. How would you judge Paw Broon at Scotland? What legacy did he leave - or closer to home the legacy of CC and to lesser extent Yogi (not enough youth brought through) surely transitional development has got be part of it too. Whatever crticisms can be laid, fo me Pats given youth a chance .

That's said why not share? Perhaps it's placing further pressure on Pat when he just needs to focus and turn things around. (Btw as I've said I just don't reckon Pat has or will be able to give what it takes ESP in turning a game).

Am I concerned? Without speaking and listening to the answers and rationale the answer is not yet.

There are a numbe of ways of working with the club. I understand but do find it a pity that the achievements of LWT have been somewhat overlooked as this would in part demonstrate what can and has been achieved through working together.

Gordon mentioned "Winning the Hibernian Way" this proposal something management need to build in for us to start to see the aspirations of the support realised but there is no silver bullet (although Terry Butcher or McCall might help ;))

blackpoolhibs
12-09-2013, 09:07 AM
Folk who are involved with LWT are rightly protective of what they do and have achieved. Nobody can or should criticise what they are striving to do with the club.

And when i say what have these meeting achieved, its in no way disregarding their good work in all the initiatives they have been involved in.

Yet after saying all that, here we are again arguing about a meeting that has probably had some good outcomes regarding these schemes brought about by LWT, all because we have not had one answer on questions we really want answered.

LWT should keep working on their ideas, nobody wants this to fail.

I have come to the conclusion these meeting are a complete waste of time if you are going with the sole reason of asking Petrie anything.

You are completely wasting your time, although deep down YOU knew that anyway didn't YOU.

Hibbyradge
12-09-2013, 09:08 AM
I fully expect folk to have a go at me for saying this, but of course the manager's specific targets won't be publicised. And neither they should be.

What benefit to the club would be gained by doing so?

It may satisfy the curiosity of a section of the support, but overall, I think it would be unfair and destructive. We'd be setting him up to fail.

If we were told that the target was top 6 minimum, this place would go mental. Many on here have already said that second place should be the target this year, but what happens if we finish a close fourth? Last year we missed out on the top 6 because the match officials decided that a ball isn't wholly over the line unless it's by at least 5 feet.

If we were told it was to finish second, we'd all be delighted, but can you imagine the pressure the manager would be under from day 1?

Imagine the power the players would have towards the end of a season if they didn't like the manager. Do we really want to give the manger that to deal with too?

Telling the fans what the specific target was would have zero beneficial effect on the team, manager or their performance.

The press would have a ball with information like that. It would be mentioned every week and we'd be the only club to be treated like that.

I've not mentioned the ammunition it new would give opposition fans yet. For example, most of us have dined out for years because Vlad told the believers that they were going to be champions of Europe and because they'd never lose by 5 goals etc etc.

In truth, it would ONLY give more grist to the mill of those who want to criticise.

PS. As far as the "secret" 5 year plan is concerned, as far as I've read, no-one asked about it last night. Maybe if someone had, we'd have a bit more of an insight. :dunno:

blackpoolhibs
12-09-2013, 09:20 AM
I fully expect folk to have a go at me for saying this, but of course the manager's specific targets won't be publicised. And neither they should be.

What benefit to the club would be gained by doing so?

It may satisfy the curiosity of a section of the support, but overall, I think it would be unfair and destructive. We'd be setting him up to fail.

If we were told that the target was top 6 minimum, this place would go mental. Many on here have already said that second place should be the target this year, but what happens if we finish a close fourth? Last year we missed out on the top 6 because the match officials decided that a ball isn't wholly over the line unless it's by at least 5 feet.

If we were told it was to finish second, we'd all be delighted, but can you imagine the pressure the manager would be under from day 1?

Imagine the power the players would have towards the end of a season if they didn't like the manager. Do we really want to give the manger that to deal with too?

Telling the fans what the specific target was would have zero beneficial effect on the team, manager or their performance.

The press would have a ball with information like that. It would be mentioned every week and we'd be the only club to be treated like that.

I've not mentioned the ammunition it new would give opposition fans yet. For example, most of us have dined out for years because Vlad told the believers that they were going to be champions of Europe and because they'd never lose by 5 goals etc etc.

In truth, it would ONLY give more grist to the mill of those who want to criticise.

PS. As far as the "secret" 5 year plan is concerned, as far as I've read, no-one asked about it last night. Maybe if someone had, we'd have a bit more of an insight. :dunno:

I will say who cares, we need to man up and have more of a backbone. Its been accepted now that we just accept failure. Now you might say what else can we do its more than likely going to happen anyway?

Well i want a team that wont accept failure, i want a team that react the right way to pressure not crumble like we always seem to do.

Targeting 2nd is something we should be doing now, especially the way the league is at the moment. If we failed and made 4th, its still success and gives us a place in Europe.

I see folk on here saying we should be looking at the top 6, being as crap as we have been for far too long is creeping through the club to the supporters now, top 6 is not acceptable ever.

Anything less than 4th is a fail, and if we finish below that then you should be sacked. Thats what every manager we employ should be told before he signs the contract.

greenpaper55
12-09-2013, 09:26 AM
I will say who cares, we need to man up and have more of a backbone. Its been accepted now that we just accept failure. Now you might say what else can we do its more than likely going to happen anyway?

Well i want a team that wont accept failure, i want a team that react the right way to pressure not crumble like we always seem to do.

Targeting 2nd is something we should be doing now, especially the way the league is at the moment. If we failed and made 4th, its still success and gives us a place in Europe.

I see folk on here saying we should be looking at the top 6, being as crap as we have been for far too long is creeping through the club to the supporters now, top 6 is not acceptable ever.

Anything less than 4th is a fail, and if we finish below that then you should be sacked. Thats what every manager we employ should be told before he signs the contract.

You are right there, keep the pressure on for the performances to improve , the club are never shy of putting pressure on the fans when the ST's need renewing. This is an interesting period coming up as what do the board do if the performances don't improve, they have backed themselves into a bit of a corner with their support of Fenlon ?.

PatHead
12-09-2013, 09:29 AM
For anyone who doesn't know it was me who prepared and presented the football statistics lastnight.

I compared our league position, percentage of games won, goals scored since 1998/99. I provided the same stats for also our home matches in addition to our attendance. Unfortunately the type was too small for those at the back and I apologise that they perhaps could not see clearly.

If any of the admins want this power point presentation I would be happy to forward it to be put on the thread.

In the presentation I tried to be as balanced as possible but did highlight our poor home record and that playing at home has not really been an advantage since 2009/10.I also highlighted how few goals we had managed as this, at least to me, givesan indication of the style of football.

Turning to the Q&A the points I noted were

"We are not trying to p I s s supporters off", said Rod.
He apologised for the Malmo game describing it as "a nightmare" and saying he was "heart sorry",

He was disappointed in our "modest start" and in relation to the football,"it doesn't feel great at the moment".

Not finishing in the top 6 is "no success at all".

The reduced number of staff and work put in by both them and the board was mentioned and he admitted that the board are "stretched and they may have to add to it" but later denied that he had said those words. I asked about a Director of Football and the reply was that there are no plans for such a person at the moment but you can never rule anything out.

He did say that the board were "passionate" about Hibs.

He frustrated me by not admitting to a target for the league but inferred, by talking about league placings compared to finances, that 4th was a minimum.

For those who say it was a waste of time did anyone really expect him to turn up and say he was sacking P Fenlon, the football was pathetic and that we might as well right off this season? Just because the board don’t say what you want to hear doesn’t make it a waste of time.

I actually respect the Board for turning out in full (with the exception of Bruce who has supported LWT throughout the year) and being willing to talk with the fans and open lines of communication. They have listened over the past year and implemented some, though not all of our initiatives, with more being in the pipeline. It is work in progress and the board are well aware that the on pitch performance is not satisfactory. I am sure that they will try to do their best to improve this.

Beefster
12-09-2013, 09:44 AM
PS. As far as the "secret" 5 year plan is concerned, as far as I've read, no-one asked about it last night. Maybe if someone had, we'd have a bit more of an insight. :dunno:

As I said earlier, I can see why they'd be reluctant to release the targets for the season so I've just concentrated on your last paragraph...

This, to me, is exactly the point. There's an partnership between the club and some supporters to 'work together' in order to improve all aspects of the club. Yet, the club doesn't reveal that everything it does revolves around a 'five year plan'. It is mentioned, in passing, a year later and, still, even general, high-level details aren't forthcoming. One of the single most important details in improving the club and 'partners' have to ask specific questions to find out it even exists and then find out any details?

IMHO, you can generally tell how 'bought into' a process a manager/executive/staff member is by how open they are about the details of what's being looked at.

southsider
12-09-2013, 10:04 AM
I attended last night and asked Mr Petrie how Pat was still in a job as we have only one home league win (already relegated Dundee) since this year started. Told him how i thought this was the worst Hibs team i have ever saw in 49 years of watching Hibs. I should have told him the poll on here....95% wanted him (pat) sacked. He is not a good enough coach to turn this around. I did think i might have received more support from the hall but each to their own view.

PatHead
12-09-2013, 10:10 AM
I attended last night and asked Mr Petrie how Pat was still in a job as we have only one home league win (already relegated Dundee) since this year started. Told him how i thought this was the worst Hibs team i have ever saw in 49 years of watching Hibs. I should have told him the poll on here....95% wanted him (pat) sacked. He is not a good enough coach to turn this around. I did think i might have received more support from the hall but each to their own view.

Think the problem was that Rod was never going to say if PF was on a shoogly peg last night. You were very passionate in your statement and I don't think anyone could have added much to it. He did admit our performance is not good enough and I am sure is aware how we all feel. Hope has he managed to get Terry Butcher's phone number before the AGM though! You going to the next meeting?

IanM
12-09-2013, 10:39 AM
I attended last night and asked Mr Petrie how Pat was still in a job as we have only one home league win (already relegated Dundee) since this year started. Told him how i thought this was the worst Hibs team i have ever saw in 49 years of watching Hibs. I should have told him the poll on here....95% wanted him (pat) sacked. He is not a good enough coach to turn this around. I did think i might have received more support from the hall but each to their own view.

what was RP's reply?

dangermouse
12-09-2013, 10:43 AM
I fully expect folk to have a go at me for saying this, but of course the manager's specific targets won't be publicised. And neither they should be.

What benefit to the club would be gained by doing so?

It may satisfy the curiosity of a section of the support, but overall, I think it would be unfair and destructive. We'd be setting him up to fail.

If we were told that the target was top 6 minimum, this place would go mental. Many on here have already said that second place should be the target this year, but what happens if we finish a close fourth? Last year we missed out on the top 6 because the match officials decided that a ball isn't wholly over the line unless it's by at least 5 feet.

If we were told it was to finish second, we'd all be delighted, but can you imagine the pressure the manager would be under from day 1?

Imagine the power the players would have towards the end of a season if they didn't like the manager. Do we really want to give the manger that to deal with too?

Telling the fans what the specific target was would have zero beneficial effect on the team, manager or their performance.

The press would have a ball with information like that. It would be mentioned every week and we'd be the only club to be treated like that.

I've not mentioned the ammunition it new would give opposition fans yet. For example, most of us have dined out for years because Vlad told the believers that they were going to be champions of Europe and because they'd never lose by 5 goals etc etc.

In truth, it would ONLY give more grist to the mill of those who want to criticise.

PS. As far as the "secret" 5 year plan is concerned, as far as I've read, no-one asked about it last night. Maybe if someone had, we'd have a bit more of an insight. :dunno:

More likely because we turned a two nil lead against ITC into a draw or because we turned a two nil lead against Motherwell into a defeat, both at "fortress Easter Road". One goal not given against Hearts and one goal not given to Motherwell sort of cancels out it being the official's fault. I blame the team being unable hold onto a two goal lead.

hibsbollah
12-09-2013, 10:47 AM
As I said earlier, I can see why they'd be reluctant to release the targets for the season so I've just concentrated on your last paragraph...

This, to me, is exactly the point. There's an partnership between the club and some supporters to 'work together' in order to improve all aspects of the club. Yet, the club doesn't reveal that everything it does revolves around a 'five year plan'. It is mentioned, in passing, a year later and, still, even general, high-level details aren't forthcoming. One of the single most important details in improving the club and 'partners' have to ask specific questions to find out it even exists and then find out any details?

IMHO, you can generally tell how 'bought into' a process a manager/executive/staff member is by how open they are about the details of what's being looked at.


:agree: This is the whole problem encapsulated. If a 'work together' forum is doing what it's name suggests, the very least it should be doing is sharing this kind of fundamental information about the direction of the club? The fact that Board isn't even sharing the details of the Five Year Plan at these meetings is bizarre. Unless the Five Year Plan only exists in a very sketchy form in Rod's head? I didn't attend, so perhaps shouldn't be too critical of anyone, but this question needs to be asked at the next meeting, surely? :dunno:

southsider
12-09-2013, 11:08 AM
what was RP's reply?

He was backing Pat and thought he could turn things around. I very much doubt it as the style of football is as bad, if not worse, than in the Bertie Auld days and Pat,s (non) attacking formation makes Alex Miller seem like Pep Gardiola !

Hibbyradge
12-09-2013, 11:20 AM
I will say who cares, we need to man up and have more of a backbone. Its been accepted now that we just accept failure. Now you might say what else can we do its more than likely going to happen anyway?

Well i want a team that wont accept failure, i want a team that react the right way to pressure not crumble like we always seem to do.

Targeting 2nd is something we should be doing now, especially the way the league is at the moment. If we failed and made 4th, its still success and gives us a place in Europe.

I see folk on here saying we should be looking at the top 6, being as crap as we have been for far too long is creeping through the club to the supporters now, top 6 is not acceptable ever.

Anything less than 4th is a fail, and if we finish below that then you should be sacked. Thats what every manager we employ should be told before he signs the contract.

Why take it out on me? :boo hoo:

In all seriousness, all of what you say is possible without publicly putting the manager under ridiculous pressure by publicly announcing the targets.

I disagree with the last line though. Not just because no-one in their right mind would have accepted a target to finish 4th when Fenlon signed.

Hibbyradge
12-09-2013, 11:25 AM
More likely because we turned a two nil lead against ITC into a draw or because we turned a two nil lead against Motherwell into a defeat, both at "fortress Easter Road". One goal not given against Hearts and one goal not given to Motherwell sort of cancels out it being the official's fault. I blame the team being unable hold onto a two goal lead.

Of course you're right, but I was using (or trying to use) the incident to illustrate the point that the team's fortunes, in a tight race, are not always in the manager's hands.

Hibbyradge
12-09-2013, 11:33 AM
As I said earlier, I can see why they'd be reluctant to release the targets for the season so I've just concentrated on your last paragraph...

This, to me, is exactly the point. There's an partnership between the club and some supporters to 'work together' in order to improve all aspects of the club. Yet, the club doesn't reveal that everything it does revolves around a 'five year plan'. It is mentioned, in passing, a year later and, still, even general, high-level details aren't forthcoming. One of the single most important details in improving the club and 'partners' have to ask specific questions to find out it even exists and then find out any details?

IMHO, you can generally tell how 'bought into' a process a manager/executive/staff member is by how open they are about the details of what's being looked at.

I think I opened the five year plan can of worms in the debate leading up to the last meeting. Imagine my surprise when, lo and behold, the meeting was told, without the question being asked, that the club was working to one. :hmmm:

I would agree though, that if there really is a well defined plan in place, high level details could be shared.

But, as I type that, what would those details look like?

We plan to be regularly challenging for Europe every season?
We plan to reach the latter stages of 2 cup competitions?

The board already say this. I'm not really sure what else we could get.

Maybe someone going to the next meeting could ask why the board won't share the plan.

Beefster
12-09-2013, 11:42 AM
I think I opened the five year plan can of worms in the debate leading up to the last meeting. Imagine my surprise when, lo and behold, the meeting was told, without the question being asked, that the club was working to one. :hmmm:

I would agree though, that if there really is a well defined plan in place, high level details could be shared.

But, as I type that, what would those details look like?

We plan to be regularly challenging for Europe every season?
We plan to reach the latter stages of 2 cup competitions?

The board already say this. I'm not really sure what else we could get.

Maybe someone going to the next meeting could ask why the board won't share the plan.

The high-level plan would probably be what they are doing to ensure that the targets of x, Europe , z and latter stages of cups are met more often than not.

I'm not sure if you're implying the same but I suspect though that a formal five year plan for success on the pitch doesn't actually exist (which would be pretty damning). That would explain the complete lack of detail and why it wasn't mentioned in the first year of LWT.

Hibbyradge
12-09-2013, 11:53 AM
The high-level plan would probably be what they are doing to ensure that the targets of x, Europe , z and latter stages of cups are met more often than not.


Aye, I was getting confuddled.




I'm not sure if you're implying the same but I suspect though that a formal five year plan for success on the pitch doesn't actually exist (which would be pretty damning). That would explain the complete lack of detail and why it wasn't mentioned in the first year of LWT.

We've been told that a plan is in place, so I'm not going to call anyone a liar, but without giving away any commercial advantage, like you, I wouldn't mind having some evidence.

Onion
12-09-2013, 11:56 AM
The high-level plan would probably be what they are doing to ensure that the targets of x, Europe , z and latter stages of cups are met more often than not.

I'm not sure if you're implying the same but I suspect though that a formal five year plan for success on the pitch doesn't actually exist (which would be pretty damning). That would explain the complete lack of detail and why it wasn't mentioned in the first year of LWT.

There simply must be a rolling 5 year plan for the football club (realistic on the field targets for results, players getting caps, youth players getting into first team, league position, cup runs, Derby wins etc etc). If all the Board are doing is working to the same high level plan that we all talk about (top 6, top 4, cup semis etc) then they're not taking this seriously. When the team is recovering from Calderdud, everyone accepts that targets should be set lower (eg get top 6, keep key players), but over time the plan should evolve as the club recovers. With no Huns or Yams in this year's SPL, what is our target for league position ?

And targets are simply useless unless you link remuneration to them. Fail and you don't get paid, reach or exceed and you get well rewarded. How difficult would it be for Hibs to share our realistic targets for the season ?

But then again, if they said "avoid relegation and get top 6" few would but STs.

GreenCastle
12-09-2013, 12:19 PM
The board and Rod meet fans = check

Fans ask questions and get generic responses = check

The board support their appointment = check

We all agree what's happening right now isn't good enough = check

So what's the action plan ? How long do we continue to struggle? If we fail to get into the top 6 will Fenlon be in charge the remaining games?

Communications doesn't really bother me and I'm sure it's the same for many others - I am more concerned about having a ST at ER and going along and watching rubbish for the last few years - with no serious signs of improvement.

We are missing an opportunity right now with a weakened yams and newco out the league - if the team doesn't start improving they need to make a change as waiting till Fenlon doesn't make top 6 or even come 6th / 5th is in my opinion unacceptable. In this league with the circumstances the way they are 4th should be minimum achievement.

Cup runs are great but consistent progression over the season in the league will show real development / progression / improved quality.

marinello59
12-09-2013, 12:34 PM
Ah, you're serious !?

People have been complaining about ticket prices and the booking fee as the sting in the tail including the Cup Finals iirc for years so the answer to your question in my opinion is a big yes especially in these tricky times financially every bit helps.

I think muttering about not getting credit for removing something that should never have been introduced in the first place is a poor response to genuine supporter concerns about much bigger issues.

PatHead
12-09-2013, 12:34 PM
The board are supporters as well and don't want the team to fail on the park. They will make changes when they feel the time is right. They will also give the manager a chance to fulfil his plan.

Personally I don't think he has the ability to do so but they meet on a daily basis, seewhat is happening in training, with the youths, in the attitude of staff etc and are doing what they believe is right. They have supported him financially and with the exception of Leigh and McManus seem to have got most of the players they went after. They are of course going to give their man time.

Lets hope they get it right and get a winning mentality installed in the club from top to bottom. I do wish players would come off the pitch drenched in sweat having given their all instead of the stroll and relaxed attitude that seems to be there.

Viva_Palmeiras
12-09-2013, 02:16 PM
I think muttering about not getting credit for removing something that should never have been introduced in the first place is a poor response to genuine supporter concerns about much bigger issues.

I see what youre saying but The point I was responding to wasn't whether they should have been there in the first place (any barrier to purchase should be minimised/eliminated) it was that people wouldn't give a toss as long as we're winning - I don't believe that to be the case.

MB62
12-09-2013, 02:41 PM
First up I would like to say a big well done to the LWT supporters who have obviously put in a lot of time and effort towards this. I have no doubt they have helped achieve some improvements for us and congratulations both to them and the board for getting rid of booking fees for tickets.
The questioning of Rod towards the manager is always going to be a waste of time, other than reiterating the point of view of the fans that we are not happy on that front. No board in any football club in the world is going to say they agree the manager is useless and they are about to sack him, even if that is on their agenda.
There is only ever a couple of ways of fans getting rid of managers and that is with vocal protests either during or after a game. However, the main one really is just to stop going to home games and hit the club in the pocket, it certainly is one way that Rod would stand up and take notice, if his balance sheets were being hit.
LWT will never get a manager sacked, and neither should they, but they can help in many other ways to form or keep a bond between board and fans and I believe they are achieving this to a certain extent.

ancient hibee
12-09-2013, 06:58 PM
I couldn't go to the meeting but from the reports I have two points.

1.In saying that our record is bested only by the OF and Hearts Rod is pointing out that two of these clubs have gone bust and the other one is in a financially different stratosphere.

2.As regards targets I will ask (if I can wangle myself to the AGM)whether in line with the best business practice the contract of a new employee such as the manager contains,quantifiable,verifiable,achievable objectives.I don't want to know what they are just whether they are there and if so whether sanctions apply if they are not met.They certainly did when I worked for a living(instead of my present role of international playboy).

RIP
12-09-2013, 09:51 PM
The most important goal for me at the moment is supporter solidarity. United we stand, divided we fail. These monthly meetings with the Board have only been ongoing for a year are in their infancy, there will be more in the future and unless things improve radically in the eyes of supporters more people will pitch up and the questions will get tougher. Attendance is only around 45-50 but that's treble what we started with 12 months ago.

For many years Rod has taken the credit for keeping the club afloat but last night and on the Hibs website our Finance Director Jamie Marwick was correctly getting more of the credit. If Jamie is taking care of the books we need to look to Rod for energetic leadership, vision, strategy, creating unity between players/management/supporters and creating an attractive football product through his recruitment of managers and coaches. We now need to judge him on his overall management of the football business - from kids to first team not the finances. As Gary often needs to remind us - our business is FOOTBALL!!

Those areas were the ones under scrutiny last night. All that stuff about commercials, ticketing, twitter, club shop were all off the table for the Q&A. With 6 first team coaches in 7 years, I believe the Hibs support now look solely to Rod for the accountability for our football performance over that period. Fenlon, CC, Mixu, Yogi, JC, Mowbray were all responsible. But only the Chairman is accountable.

Oh and Southsider (Keith) - I think I remember you from the Southside. I lived there up till 1968.:aok:

RIP
12-09-2013, 09:59 PM
It's the way I see it, I'm afraid, and I'd be surprised if I'm alone. Defending the facts/details is fine. Digs about people not attending isn't. If LWT don't want comments from non-attendees, they shouldn't post the details on a public forum with hundreds of different personalities.

About the rest of my post (that you ignored) - it doesn't concern you that you are putting valuable time into 'working with the club' but they won't share the two most important business details with you/the support? I can just about see why they'd be reluctant to share Fenlon's targets (they'd have no room for manoeuvre if he didn't meet them) but I can't see the rationale behind not sharing the "Five Year Plan", other than it doesn't exist.

K - I don't get where this mythical '5-year plan' came from? I've been at all but two LWT monthly meetings since July last year

Not one member of board or management has ever mentioned a five year plan - either at meetings or in any working group

Not saying it doesn't exist, just wondering what the 'sauce' is :greengrin

Saorsa
12-09-2013, 10:07 PM
K - I don't get where this mythical '5-year plan' came from? I've been at all but two LWT monthly meetings since July last year

Not one member of board or management has ever mentioned a five year plan - either at meetings or in any working group

Not saying it doesn't exist, just wondering what the 'sauce' is :greengrinReally? So you weren't at the question and nae answer session the other week?

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?270365-Q-amp-A-With-Rod-Petrie-6-30pm-Kick-Off!/page5&highlight=5+year+plan

post 139

Hibbyradge
12-09-2013, 10:09 PM
K - I don't get where this mythical '5-year plan' came from? I've been at all but two LWT monthly meetings since July last year

Not one member of board or management has ever mentioned a five year plan - either at meetings or in any working group

Not saying it doesn't exist, just wondering what the 'sauce' is :greengrin

I'm sure I read that RP mentioned it at the last, closed, meeting.

Saorsa
12-09-2013, 10:09 PM
The most important goal for me at the moment is supporter solidarity. United we stand, divided we fail. These monthly meetings with the Board have only been ongoing for a year are in their infancy, there will be more in the future and unless things improve radically in the eyes of supporters more people will pitch up and the questions will get tougher. Attendance is only around 45-50 but that's treble what we started with 12 months ago.

For many years Rod has taken the credit for keeping the club afloat but last night and on the Hibs website our Finance Director Jamie Marwick was correctly getting more of the credit. If Jamie is taking care of the books we need to look to Rod for energetic leadership, vision, strategy, creating unity between players/management/supporters and creating an attractive football product through his recruitment of managers and coaches. We now need to judge him on his overall management of the football business - from kids to first team not the finances. As Gary often needs to remind us - our business is FOOTBALL!!

Those areas were the ones under scrutiny last night. All that stuff about commercials, ticketing, twitter, club shop were all off the table for the Q&A. With 6 first team coaches in 7 years, I believe the Hibs support now look solely to Rod for the accountability for our football performance over that period. Fenlon, CC, Mixu, Yogi, JC, Mowbray were all responsible. But only the Chairman is accountable.

Oh and Southsider (Keith) - I think I remember you from the Southside. I lived there up till 1968.:aok:and he'll still no answer them but keep kidding yersel on that you're grilling him.

RIP
12-09-2013, 10:12 PM
Really? So you weren't at the question and nae answer session the other week?

and he'll still no answer them but keep kidding yersel on that you're grilling him.

Sorry bud you've lost me - who's kidding, grilling?

Can't help wondering who your real target is here - Petrie or your 'fellow Hibbies'?

HUTCHYHIBBY
12-09-2013, 10:14 PM
I see what youre saying but The point I was responding to wasn't whether they should have been there in the first place (any barrier to purchase should be minimised/eliminated) it was that people wouldn't give a toss as long as we're winning - I don't believe that to be the case.

Thats what opinions are all about, as i previously stated, if everything was just dandy on the field of play it would be so far down folks moan list as to be negligible.

Hibbyradge
12-09-2013, 10:17 PM
Sorry bud you've lost me

RP said there was a 5 year plan at the meeting that I was going to attend but your work schedule meant it went wrong but it eventually went on and I didn't attend.

Mind o all that?

Saorsa
12-09-2013, 10:31 PM
Sorry bud you've lost me - who's kidding, grilling?

Can't help wondering who your real target is here - Petrie or your 'fellow Hibbies'?It's him.

I just find some of the stuff you come out with rather amusing as though you think you're going tae make a difference on issues he refuses tae discuss, 'the questions will get tougher'. Do you think he gives a monkeys what your questions are? He'll do what he done last night and the week before, if he disnae want tae answer your questions he'll fob you off with spin and non answers like he always does and continue on his way. And yes you were previously going on about grilling him.

RIP
12-09-2013, 10:50 PM
It's Petrie

I just find some of the stuff you come out with rather amusing as though you think you're going tae make a difference on issues he refuses tae discuss, 'the questions will get tougher'. Do you think he gives a monkeys what your questions are? He'll do what he done last night and the week before, if he disnae want tae answer your questions he'll fob you off with spin and non answers like he always does and continue on his way.

You appear desperate to pitch up on these threads to goad fellow supporters who make an effort to challenge but no desperate enough to put your questions to the man himself. Your non-attendance sits finewith me, but your incessant piss taking at those who choose to do otherwise does not

I guess for you, taking no action at all is better than risking wasting your time with him blanking your questions? I get it!

To be clear DD I don't ask questions at LWT. I help to organise meetings where every month there is an opportunity for any supporters to come along and ask any question. I happen to think that if there's no improvement on the park an increasing amount of fans will pitch up and more forceful questions will be asked of the board. I'm convinced of this because every week I speak to an increasing number of Hibbies who are losing patience and are not prepared to simply take their frustrations out on their family, friends, colleagues or fellow supporters.

It's time for Hibs Supporters to stand united, not divided. So I do respect your opinion Dan, just dinnae want slagged off for believing in a different form of action

Saorsa
12-09-2013, 11:10 PM
You appear desperate to pitch up on these threads to goad fellow supporters who make an effort to challenge but no desperate enough to put your questions to the man himself. Your non-attendance sits finewith me, but your incessant piss taking at those who choose to do otherwise does not

I guess for you, taking no action at all is better than risking wasting your time with him blanking your questions? I get it!

To be clear DD I don't ask questions at LWT. I help to organise meetings where every month there is an opportunity for any supporters to come along and ask any question. I happen to think that if there's no improvement on the park an increasing amount of fans will pitch up and more forceful questions will be asked of the board. I'm convinced of this because every week I speak to an increasing number of Hibbies who are losing patience and are not prepared to simply take their frustrations out on their family, friends, colleagues or fellow supporters.

It's time for Hibs Supporters to stand united, not divided. So I do respect your opinion Dan, just dinnae want slagged off for believing in a different form of actionPetrie kens fine my opinion, I've mentioned it tae him before. I have nae intention of wasting my time at Question & Non Answer sessions with him for the reasons stated. The questions winnae be answered nae matter who is asking them, efter everyone of these things there's post/s on here from people who were there saying the same thing about questions on the issues that really matter being evaded, which only serves tae reinforce my point about it being a waste of time. I will continue tae support the team but have absolutely nae intention of getting myself involved in anything for as long as he has any part in it. When and only when he is gone I will consider giving up my time, I certainly winnae be wasting it while he's there because IMO a waste is exactly what it is. Still each tae their own I suppose.

marinello59
13-09-2013, 06:08 AM
K - I don't get where this mythical '5-year plan' came from? I've been at all but two LWT monthly meetings since July last year

Not one member of board or management has ever mentioned a five year plan - either at meetings or in any working group

Not saying it doesn't exist, just wondering what the 'sauce' is :greengrin

You are not being serious here are you?
Given your personal views on the previous meeting I would have thought you would have remembered the 'showstopper' comment. You made it quite clear that you reckoned the board would get a tougher grilling at an open meeting controlled by LWT. Yet the question wasn't even asked and now you seem to be pretending that the comment was never made. I can only conclude that are having a laugh or believe unless it happens at an LWT meeting it simply doesn't matter.
That is no criticism of anybody that attended the meeting by the way. Fair play to everybody that made the effort in the first place.

Beefster
13-09-2013, 06:39 AM
K - I don't get where this mythical '5-year plan' came from? I've been at all but two LWT monthly meetings since July last year

Not one member of board or management has ever mentioned a five year plan - either at meetings or in any working group

Not saying it doesn't exist, just wondering what the 'sauce' is :greengrin

Gogs, you mentioned the 'Five Year Plan' in the aftermath of the August Q&A...


If the guys on Wednesday asked a question and the answer was a 5 year plan I'm guessing either no-one came forward to ask the question in the previous 6 years, or the answer wasn't written down, or the 5 year plan is a new thing :dunno:

It sounds like you missed it at the meeting though?

Jack
13-09-2013, 07:10 AM
You are not being serious here are you?
Given your personal views on the previous meeting I would have thought you would have remembered the 'showstopper' comment. You made it quite clear that you reckoned the board would get a tougher grilling at an open meeting controlled by LWT. Yet the question wasn't even asked and now you seem to be pretending that the comment was never made. I can only conclude that are having a laugh or believe unless it happens at an LWT meeting it simply doesn't matter.
That is no criticism of anybody that attended the meeting by the way. Fair play to everybody that made the effort in the first place.

To be fair I don't think LWT was ever the vehicle to grill Rod or even give him a good broiling.

There have been LWT Q&A sessions with lots of interesting people, obviously Rod is very interesting as far as LWT is concerned so he's been along a few times. This is very useful for LWT as those taking projects forward get a better understanding of how our club is run and the opportunity to work together with directors and staff for the ultimate benefit of us all.

That's not to say direct questions are off the agenda. But while I understand the frustration we all feel about not getting direct answers as we all strive to learn as much as we can, every scrap, about our club folk should really understand that as a commercial company in a sporting environment in the public eye, in the media spotlight there will be loads of stuff we will not, and cannot, be privvy to.

Once folk can understand that, not getting at you individually, then the benefits of these meetings for both the support and club become much clearer.

I think an indication of how important our club [now] think supporter engagement is that the whole board, except one, paid an unpaid were there on Wednesday ... and as usual, for LWT and AGMs, poor Amanda never got asked a question. I really will have to think of one.

I did speak to her at the last AGM when she explained the off side rule to me. Who says our board ken nothing about fitba? Even our lady director kens whits goin oan :-)

matty_f
13-09-2013, 07:18 AM
I sometimes wonder if people mistake not getting the answer they want or like, with not getting an answer.

marinello59
13-09-2013, 07:23 AM
To be fair I don't think LWT was ever the vehicle to grill Rod or even give him a good broiling.There have been LWT Q&A sessions with lots of interesting people, obviously Rod is very interesting as far as LWT is concerned so he's been along a few times. This is very useful for LWT as those taking projects forward get a better understanding of how our club is run and the opportunity to work together with directors and staff for the ultimate benefit of us all.

That's not to say direct questions are off the agenda. But while I understand the frustration we all feel about not getting direct answers as we all strive to learn as much as we can, every scrap, about our club folk should really understand that as a commercial company in a sporting environment in the public eye, in the media spotlight there will be loads of stuff we will not, and cannot, be privvy to.

Once folk can understand that, not getting at you individually, then the benefits of these meetings for both the support and club become much clearer.

I think an indication of how important our club [now] think supporter engagement is that the whole board, except one, paid an unpaid were there on Wednesday ... and as usual, for LWT and AGMs, poor Amanda never got asked a question. I really will have to think of one.

I did speak to her at the last AGM when she explained the off side rule to me. Who says our board ken nothing about fitba? Even our lady director kens whits goin oan :-)

Perhaps you should direct that remark to Gogs then who clearly thinks it is. I have offered no opinion on that either way. I was questioning his recollection of events which I am sure he will be happy to answer himself.

The Modfather
13-09-2013, 07:27 AM
I sometimes wonder if people mistake not getting the answer they want or like, with not getting an answer.

Possibly true, but the other side of the coin is do some people accept everything that comes out of the board (Petrie) mouth as gospel. Rather than it being potential spin (unworkable legacies) to cover their own back, or potentially giving whatever vague response they(Petrie) deem adequate to placate and move the attention on to something else.

matty_f
13-09-2013, 07:38 AM
Possibly true, but the other side of the coin is do some people accept everything that comes out of the board (Petrie) mouth as gospel. Rather than it being potential spin (unworkable legacies) to cover their own back, or potentially giving whatever vague response they(Petrie) deem adequate to placate and move the attention on to something else.

It's probably somewhere in between. :agree:

blackpoolhibs
13-09-2013, 08:46 AM
I cant believe anyone thought we'd get a straight answer to any question they were asked about Fenlon or even Petries own position? I cant believe someone never asked Petrie if he'd questioned his own position after his success at appointing failed managers?

Yet if he had been asked the question, we all know he'd have spun it to look like he'd appointed Fergie and Mourinho every time.

The guy is untouchable, and anyone going to these meetings thinking they will get any kind of answer is kidding themselves.

Now I see below, Matty said (I sometimes wonder if people mistake not getting the answer they want or like, with not getting an answer.)

Well that's not really the case here is it, all we have got to any searching question :faf: is the stock answer, the usual back him 100% things will get better, we have 100% faith in how things will go.

What other answer did anyone expect?

The first Q&A was hastily arranged at a couple of days notice in my opinion to quell the protest folk were talking about. And it certainly worked, after all those searching questions we managed to get another meeting where more searching questions were ignored.

LWT in my opinion are being damaged here, because it seems to me they are getting used as a vehicle for folk who are annoyed at the way the team is performing, when that was never their job.

This has all been a stalling ploy in my opinion, to give the manager more time in the blind hope he can turn this awful football round, and get a few results to see him through to the end of the season.

As I have said before, we have lack of leadership on the board, matched by the same kind on the football side. So to sum up, Q&A meetings are a complete waste of time if you want change in the boardroom or the football side of things, but obviously work off the park with some good ideas like the lotto and the east stand stones.

LWT need to distance themselves from the protest, and continue to do the good work they have done on the outside of all that.

Andy74
13-09-2013, 09:27 AM
Remember when Pat said he was targetting winning the league cup? :greengrin

matty_f
13-09-2013, 09:41 AM
Blackpool, what other answer do you think you'd get? They obviously do back him and clearly have faith in him otherwise he'd be sacked. That may seem like a stock answer but at this moment in time how can you say it's not an accurate one?.
You don't agree or don't like the answer so you've dismissed it. Laugh all you like but you've just proved the point.

Hibbyradge
13-09-2013, 09:52 AM
As I have said before, we have lack of leadership on the board, matched by the same kind on the football side. So to sum up, Q&A meetings are a complete waste of time if you want change in the boardroom or the football side of things, but obviously work off the park with some good ideas like the lotto and the east stand stones.

LWT need to distance themselves from the protest, and continue to do the good work they have done on the outside of all that.

I don't think we have a lack of leadership at all. We have leadership of a kind with which you disapprove.

We're trying to balance what we provide on the park with managing the finances.

We're trying to get some stability in the managerial positions because the board believes that will reap benefits. in the longer term.

And all the time, they're under pressure from the fans so I think they're showing considerable leadership and strength.






So to sum up, Q&A meetings are a complete waste of time if you want change in the boardroom or the football side of things, but obviously work off the park with some good ideas like the lotto and the east stand stones.



If you go to a Q&A session with the intention of anything more than asking questions, then you're right, you really are wasting your time.

It would be like going to a Bar Mitzvah for a bacon roll.

matty_f
13-09-2013, 10:01 AM
Good points Radge. :agree:
Sometimes leadership is making the unpopular decision and toughing out the bad times when you have a belief in the path you're on.

Beefster
13-09-2013, 10:04 AM
I don't think we have a lack of leadership at all. We have leadership of a kind with which you disapprove.

It depends on your definition of leadership. Rodders is a Chairman. We need a [good] day-to-day CEO able to hire and fire folk, change departments and spend the budget as he/she sees fit.

Hibs is a bit like a cruise ship where the captain steers the ship perfectly but the restaurants, shops, pools, nightclubs, rooms and so on are murder because the captain won't let anyone else do anything.

matty_f
13-09-2013, 10:15 AM
It depends on your definition of leadership. Rodders is a Chairman. We need a [good] day-to-day CEO able to hire and fire folk, change departments and spend the budget as he/she sees fit.

Hibs is a bit like a cruise ship where the captain steers the ship perfectly but the restaurants, shops, pools, nightclubs, rooms and so on are murder because the captain won't let anyone else do anything.

I'd like to see someone come in and really challenge everyone involved with the club to push us on. Someone who thinks we should aim to achieve results beyond our budget. I don't really think that Petrie is that person but then I also don't believe he's the dictator that he's made out to be.

It's my opinion that we lack genuine ambition and by that I don't equate ambition with signings or spending money but instead it's about taking the club to the next level. I want someone who sets a target to be champions in x amount of years, and to break the scottish cup jinx... to set the bar high and drag the club up with them.

The Modfather
13-09-2013, 10:29 AM
I don't think we have a lack of leadership at all. We have leadership of a kind with which you disapprove.

We're trying to balance what we provide on the park with managing the finances.

We're trying to get some stability in the managerial positions because the board believes that will reap benefits. in the longer term.

And all the time, they're under pressure from the fans so I think they're showing considerable leadership and strength.

.

I'm not sure I agree with that, yes there may be a degree of truth in it but my take is that they (Petrie) have made so many mistakes the last 6 years or so (particularly recruiting managers) that they can't afford to admit to another mistake as the untouchable one fears even he might not survive another failure.

Petrie strikes me as someone who doesn't like to admit to mistakes, Calderwood showed me this. He continued to back the man with absolutely no justification until it was no longer possible to get away with it. My view is that it's the exact same position with Fenlon. It's as much, if not more, to do with Petrie covering his back and hoping things work out until he can play his get out of jail card and let Fenlons contract expire than it is about stability.

If he really is thinking of "stability", "longer term" etc then I expect to start to hear noises/negotiations after xmas about a renewal of Fenlons contract.

If we were to agree that Petrie is showing leadership at the moment, it is ineffectual leadership. To the point were we had (and still have to a certain degree?) such a rotten culture that it took a new manager coming in to address that mid way through a season the players weren't fit enough and a humiliating no show in the biggest derby in our history before we got the soundbites about "a new summer a new Hibs"

southsider
13-09-2013, 10:29 AM
It depends on your definition of leadership. Rodders is a Chairman. We need a [good] day-to-day CEO able to hire and fire folk, change departments and spend the budget as he/she sees fit.

Hibs is a bit like a cruise ship where the captain steers the ship perfectly but the restaurants, shops, pools, nightclubs, rooms and so on are murder because the captain won't let anyone else do anything.

Rod is a money man so he should stick to that. I (and 95% on here) have no faith in Pat and by backing Pat i have lost all faith in Rod to run the football side of things. We must appoint a D of F to do contracts, hire a new Head Coach who will work with the players and the system that the new D of F shall see fit. A question was asked "why are the crowds down approx 5,000 per game from the Mobray era and what can we do to get them back ? Pretty easy really i think.....play good fitba and win games but will never happen, unfortunately, under Pat. So at the next meeting i will ask again. Hibs home games are murder at the moment and you don't have to an expert to know why. Pat. Former US president Trueman used to have a sign on his desk " the buck stops here". END OF.

The Modfather
13-09-2013, 10:31 AM
I'd like to see someone come in and really challenge everyone involved with the club to push us on. Someone who thinks we should aim to achieve results beyond our budget. I don't really think that Petrie is that person but then I also don't believe he's the dictator that he's made out to be.

It's my opinion that we lack genuine ambition and by that I don't equate ambition with signings or spending money but instead it's about taking the club to the next level. I want someone who sets a target to be champions in x amount of years, and to break the scottish cup jinx... to set the bar high and drag the club up with them.

Sounds like Collins to me :agree: :devil:

Yours,

JC

Saorsa
13-09-2013, 10:33 AM
Rod is a money man so he should stick to that. I (and 95% on here) have no faith in Pat and by backing Pat i have lost all faith in Rod to run the football side of things. We must appoint a D of F to do contracts, hire a new Head Coach who will work with the players and the system that the new D of F shall see fit. A question was asked "why are the crowds down approx 5,000 per game from the Mobray era and what can we do to get them back ? Pretty easy really i think.....play good fitba and win games but will never happen, unfortunately, under Pat. So at the next meeting i will ask again. Hibs home games are murder at the moment and you don't have to an expert to know why. Pat. Former US president Trueman used to have a sign on his desk " the buck stops here". END OF.And Petrie has one on his desk that says "It's everybody else's fault"

RIP
13-09-2013, 02:03 PM
LWT in my opinion are being damaged here, because it seems to me they are getting used as a vehicle for folk who are annoyed at the way the team is performing, when that was never their job.

As I have said before, we have lack of leadership on the board, matched by the same kind on the football side. So to sum up, Q&A meetings are a complete waste of time if you want change in the boardroom or the football side of things, but obviously work off the park with some good ideas like the lotto and the east stand stones. LWT need to distance themselves from the protest, and continue to do the good work they have done on the outside of all that.

Interesting opinion but not generally supported by the feedback from Wednesday's attendees

Working for our club and challenging our management on their performances are two sides of the same coin. To mis-quote my branch chairman better arguing wi the (Hibernian) family roond the table than standing outside your hoose chucking stanes at the windaes. I prefer the tent pis sing in/oot analogy myself :greengrin

LWT is only a Gateway for people to engage with management (or not) as they see fit. It's not a group - nae constitution, committee or officials. It's been going a year and is a work in progress to be continually refined and improved. However it's important people understand what it is and what it is not.

Less than 1% of Hibs supporters have attended a monthly meeting so it's small beer at the moment. It's also early days and numbers have trebled in a year and growing steadily. It's only one of many ways of accessing management but the Board believe it's the one that is most efficient with their time, given that the majority are unpaid and tied up from 8 till 5.

Management and board members are present at every monthly meeting and take questions freely. They were cautious with replies at the start but are feeling a bit more more relaxed and candid as time goes on. In my personal view, Rod answers too many questions himself. He has a capable team and could share the answers around a lot more.

All meetings consist of QA, some times formal, other times less so. On Wednesday the QA only took up 40% of the meeting. The other activities, projects, helping the club, working alongside management fall naturally out of that QA. Complaints breed questions which get discussed and lead to ideas, ideas get picked up by teams and turned into projects. Projects deliver improvements. There isn't much that attendees can do do about improving on field performances other than regularly and passionately say how poor the fare is and how disgusted they were at the recent debacles, hoof and backwards fitba. Pat Fenlon has been at two meetings and will be at more, possibly with Jimmy Nicol. Plans for a fact-finding trip to East Mains is underway. At the annual review PatHead presented a football statistical review over the past 14 years of the SPL

When the team is doing badly the meeting will inevitably attract more people with questions. Some may leave having said their piece, others may stay and volunteer to help with a project. When the team or football product finally picks up (God willing) we may invest more time in projects and less time in QA. If the performances do not pick up there is an opportunity for more people to pitch up with direct questions and challenge by proposing real solutions

As one of the 'meeting secretaries' I do find there are a lot of last minute call offs, often from those who have been most vociferous prior to the meeting. Most likely a combination of genuine constraints (job/family), apathy or lack of confidence at speaking up. Given the 'mood of the camp' I must admit to expecting even more challenge at these meetings. We started a year ago by talking only about the problems but recently the focus has started to narrow down to specific asks in the form of a visionary CEO, DoF, motivation coach, player inductions and "Winning the Hibernian Way"

For every Hibby the football performances are our top priority - as an issue itand stands head and shoulders above all else. So the volunteers that pitch up at LWT are just as keen to hear those questions asked as anyone else.

GGTTH

Jonnyboy
13-09-2013, 02:32 PM
It depends on your definition of leadership. Rodders is a Chairman. We need a [good] day-to-day CEO able to hire and fire folk, change departments and spend the budget as he/she sees fit.

Hibs is a bit like a cruise ship where the captain steers the ship perfectly but the restaurants, shops, pools, nightclubs, rooms and so on are murder because the captain won't let anyone else do anything.

Agreed Beefster but I see a major stumbling block. Such a person should command a decent salary. Hibs have been cost cutting by redundancy etc on the support staff side and so the ethos seems to be to reduce costs rather than increase them.

Also, imaging the outcry when another Director salary appears in the club accounts :greengrin

Beefster
13-09-2013, 03:33 PM
Agreed Beefster but I see a major stumbling block. Such a person should command a decent salary. Hibs have been cost cutting by redundancy etc on the support staff side and so the ethos seems to be to reduce costs rather than increase them.

Also, imaging the outcry when another Director salary appears in the club accounts :greengrin

We've seen where all the cost-cutting leads us though, JB. A profit of £100k (which would more than pay for the right person) but continual complaints about the football, the retail operation, the catering, the communication, the marketing, ticketing, BTG and so on. Is there a single department at Hibs that folk could honestly say provided a first-class service?

A CEO whose sole focus was to get all the various departments in Hibs working effectively (and together) would probably save money, increase income and more than pay for him/herself.

Jonnyboy
13-09-2013, 04:07 PM
We've seen where all the cost-cutting leads us though, JB. A profit of £100k (which would more than pay for the right person) but continual complaints about the football, the retail operation, the catering, the communication, the marketing, ticketing, BTG and so on. Is there a single department at Hibs that folk could honestly say provided a first-class service?

A CEO whose sole focus was to get all the various departments in Hibs working effectively (and together) would probably save money, increase income and more than pay for him/herself.

I agree :agree:

It's getting RP to see that :wink:

ancient hibee
13-09-2013, 04:13 PM
Anyone willing to take on the running of Hibs for around £90K would need his head examined.

Keith_M
13-09-2013, 04:29 PM
Anyone willing to take on the running of Hibs for around £90K would need his head examined.



When do I start?


:greengrin

brian6-2
13-09-2013, 04:38 PM
what a squabbling bunch of wee lassies.

greenpaper55
13-09-2013, 04:43 PM
Anyone willing to take on the running of Hibs for around £90K would need his head examined.

I wonder how much the high heid yin at ICT is getting ?, probably a lot less than 90 K.

Pete
13-09-2013, 04:45 PM
When do I start?


:greengrin

You'll have lots of competition from the experts on here.


With their extensive knowledge in the subject of how not to run a football club, what chance does anyone else have? :-)

Saorsa
13-09-2013, 05:05 PM
what a squabbling bunch of wee lassies.Always good tae have worthwhile contributions like yours on the thread :blah:

blackpoolhibs
13-09-2013, 05:19 PM
what a squabbling bunch of wee lassies.

I agree, its always better to say nowt keep bending over and chew that pillow. :rolleyes:

RIP
13-09-2013, 06:25 PM
Anyone willing to take on the running of Hibs for around £90K would need his head examined.

Or her head?

Leeann Dempster. C'mon Rod - you know it makes sense!!

Pedantic_Hibee
13-09-2013, 07:40 PM
I agree, its always better to say nowt keep bending over and chew that pillow. :rolleyes:

No it's not. I've got an ersehole like the Japanese flag. Am in f*****g tatters here.

blackpoolhibs
13-09-2013, 07:50 PM
No it's not. I've got an ersehole like the Japanese flag. Am in f*****g tatters here.

:greengrin