Here's how you set targets

[Hibbyradge]

Sure they might fail, and most on here will hope they do, but at least they know where they're trying to get to.

FA chairman Greg Dyke says the England team should aim to reach the semi-final of Euro 2020 and win the World Cup in 2022.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

[--------]

Sure they might fail, and most on here will hope they do, but at least they know where they're trying to get to.

FA chairman Greg Dyke says the England team should aim to reach the semi-final of Euro 2020 and win the World Cup in 2022.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416


Fighting talk from Mr Dyke.

Targets are a great thing, as long as you set them far enough into the future that you can't be held responsible for failure.

Because you'll be long gone .... :rolleyes:

[B.H.F.C]

Remember we have a five year plan.

It's just none oof us know what it is!

[Future17]

Sure they might fail, and most on here will hope they do, but at least they know where they're trying to get to.

FA chairman Greg Dyke says the England team should aim to reach the semi-final of Euro 2020 and win the World Cup in 2022.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23963416

Long term targets are totally irrelevant without regular performance management and clear lines of responsibility for delivery.

[Brightside]

He's forgetting where the 2022 WC will take place. They will be lucky to finish a match!

[jdships]

Long term targets are totally irrelevant without regular performance management and clear lines of responsibility for delivery.

:agree:
Exactly and " targets " can mostly be catagorised under " S FOR SPIN "
Give the punters the "Mushroom treatment "
" Keep the in the dark and throw them a handful of S..t now and again "

[frazeHFC]

We should get Romanov in, he knows all about targets. Fair play to Hearts for that Champions League title recently!



Bold move by the FA though, agree with some of the things he says, Scotland also needs to work on the talent coming through.

[Dunderhall]

Long term targets are totally irrelevant without regular performance management and clear lines of responsibility for delivery.
Agree, something along those lines was one of my points I mentioned as a possible question at the recent meeting.

No measurements between now and 2020 to see if you are on track.
I guess we will to wait until then, unless the next person in slips it to the right blaming the previous regime. That would never have though...

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm going to target pumping Cheryl Cole and Jennifer Aniston by 2022, Bookies are giving England better odds with their target.

[BS44]

I'm going to target pumping Cheryl Cole and Jennifer Aniston by 2022, Bookies are giving England better odds with their target.

I'm gonna be mightily impressed if you managed that in fourteen minutes.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm gonna be mightily impressed if you managed that in fourteen minutes.

:greengrin

[dangermouse]

I'm going to target pumping Cheryl Cole and Jennifer Aniston by 2022, Bookies are giving England better odds with their target.

Why not start now? I can give you their contact details :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

This appears not to be an actual targets as just something that came out of Greg Dykes mouth. There appears to be no actual plan attached which explains how they are going to achieve this.

[Hibbyradge]

This appears not to be an actual targets as just something that came out of Greg Dykes mouth. There appears to be no actual plan attached which explains how they are going to achieve this.

I think that's the point.

"Start with the end in mind" as someone said. (Stephen R Covey, if you're interested.)

The targets are clearly laid out - now they have to put things in place so they can achieve them.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think that's the point.

"Start with the end in mind" as someone said. (Stephen R Covey, if you're interested.)

The targets are clearly laid out - now they have to put things in place so they can achieve them.


:agree: I'm off to get a tan and book some flights to the good old US of A.

[Hibbyradge]

:agree: I'm off to get a tan and book some flights to the good old US of A.

:tee hee:

You going to diet on the plane, likes?

[neilmartinrocks]

they have set the objectives but haven't formulated the plan. forgot to quote ozhibby there hate this ****ing laptop.

[blackpoolhibs]

:tee hee:

You going to diet on the plane, likes?

Bought a membership to the gym rather than punish myself with a season ticket at easter road, 2 stone later i know i made the right decision. :wink:

[rcarter1]

I think that's the point.

"Start with the end in mind" as someone said. (Stephen R Covey, if you're interested.)

The targets are clearly laid out - now they have to put things in place so they can achieve them.

this! :agree:

[Jonnyboy]

Bought a membership to the gym rather than punish myself with a season ticket at easter road, 2 stone later i know i made the right decision. :wink:

Gary, you're meant to take weight off, not put it on :greengrin

[blackpoolhibs]

Gary, you're meant to take weight off, not put it on :greengrin


I wondered who'd be first? :greengrin

[Jonnyboy]

I wondered who'd be first? :greengrin

:greengrin

[Dunderhall]

Gary, you're meant to take weight off, not put it on :greengrin
He's campaigning to get rid of the gym manager and the Franchise owner as a result.
Allegedly wants the training regime reviewed for under 5s to OAPs for consistency.
His request for a better atmosphere with a local Gospel choir in the corner is under review.
However the idea of gym members wearing a name badge has been rejected due to data protection laws.

Apart from that his 5 year plan is on target. :greengrin

[Phil D. Rolls]

Fighting talk from Mr Dyke.

Targets are a great thing, as long as you set them far enough into the future that you can't be held responsible for failure.

Because you'll be long gone .... :rolleyes:

We will put a man on the moon by the end of this decade.

We all know what happened next. :greengrin

[green.and.white]

By 2022, England will have lost all of their best talents in decades. Where are these promising youngsters who will all be in their mid-late 20s by 2022? That guy seems to have not thought this through very well.

[sahib]

Agree, something along those lines was one of my points I mentioned as a possible question at the recent meeting.

No measurements between now and 2020 to see if you are on track.
I guess we will to wait until then, unless the next person in slips it to the right blaming the previous regime. That would never have though...

I am not an expert on international football, but I would imagine England will play some games between now and 2020. Many, if not all of these results, could be written down in an old jotter or note book which could be kept and reffered to by anyone in the FA who might be interested. Would that not provide at least a crude indication of being on track or not?

[Dunderhall]

I am not an expert on international football, but I would imagine England will play some games between now and 2020. Many, if not all of these results, could be written down in an old jotter or note book which could be kept and reffered to by anyone in the FA who might be interested. Would that not provide at least a crude indication of being on track or not?
I'm no expert on international football either.
However if you have a long term target you need a plan as to how to achieve it and measure it.
That could be progress from qualifying for Euros and world cup, to say quarter finals, semi finals at least in the interim if you plan on winning a tournament.
There could be an aim to measure youth development by the U21 and younger teams by their progress in tournaments.
Maybe measure it in the number of English players playing in the Champions league?

Who knows exactly it's not me that's saying it, you could just write indivdual results down for anyone who was interested without having anything to compare it against.
They beat Brazil a few months ago, what does that mean exactly.

Its similar at Hibs, we all want continual improvement from where we are.
I wouldn't expect them to go public with the managers target, it may not even be related to the first team, but I'd hope they had some measure of the managers performance which was based on some agreed squad size and/or player budget and other stuff.
It might not always be the manager's fault if the club doesn't deliver.

If Petrie came out and said by 2020 we want to finish in the top four 75% of the time, how many would believe it would happen just by a statement.
Easy to say, any targets in between would lead to a level of accountability at the top level.
You can't blame individual short term manager failings on not achieving long term aims without accepting responsibility at the top.

[Hibbyradge]

I'm no expert on international football either.
However if you have a long term target you need a plan as to how to achieve it and measure it.
That could be progress from qualifying for Euros and world cup, to say quarter finals, semi finals at least in the interim if you plan on winning a tournament.
There could be an aim to measure youth development by the U21 and younger teams by their progress in tournaments.
Maybe measure it in the number of English players playing in the Champions league?

Who knows exactly it's not me that's saying it, you could just write indivdual results down for anyone who was interested without having anything to compare it against.
They beat Brazil a few months ago, what does that mean exactly.

Its similar at Hibs, we all want continual improvement from where we are.
I wouldn't expect them to go public with the managers target, it may not even be related to the first team, but I'd hope they had some measure of the managers performance which was based on some agreed squad size and/or player budget and other stuff.
It might not always be the manager's fault if the club doesn't deliver.

If Petrie came out and said by 2020 we want to finish in the top four 75% of the time, how many would believe it would happen just by a statement.

Easy to say, any targets in between would lead to a level of accountability at the top level.
You can't blame individual short term manager failings on not achieving long term aims without accepting responsibility at the top.

The point is though, you need to know where you're going before you can plan how to get there.

The FA have set out their ambitions for the England national team and the fans, managers and club chairmen now expect things to happen.

They now have to put in a lot of hard work to achieve their goals and of course, they might not achieve them and look foolish, but what would saying nothing have achieved?

Nothing.

Setting targets at least gives them a chance.

As the Cheshire cat said, "If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there".

At the moment, I don't know what Hibs' footballing targets are. If we set some, we might progress. :dunno:

[Dunderhall]

The point is though, you need to know where you're going before you can plan how to get there.

The FA have set out their ambitions for the England national team and the fans, managers and club chairmen now expect things to happen.

They now have to put in a lot of hard work to achieve their goals and of course, they might not achieve them and look foolish, but what would saying nothing have achieved?

Nothing.

Setting targets at least gives them a chance.

As the Cheshire cat said, "If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there".

At the moment, I don't know what Hibs' footballing targets are. If we set some, we might progress. :dunno:
I don't disagree with anything really, I just doubt the interim will have any milestones against which to be measured.
its just words, easy reading if you are an England fan for sure, but how and where is it going to be achieved. Cynically managing expectations for the next few campaigns maybe?
Setting targets means little unless you you know how to get there.

Thinking about it, the england team have under performed for a long time as well given the squad they have had IMO.
Long term goal statements are great, but there needs to be meat on the bone as to how you get there.
It might happen in time, I'm just sceptical it will for hibs, England can look after themselves but aren't dissimilar.
Running a football club or national side like a business is realistic these days, but you can't have it both ways and ignore that the people at the very top are accountable for long term performance.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't disagree with anything really, I just doubt the interim will have any milestones against which to be measured.
its just words, easy reading if you are an England fan for sure, but how and where is it going to be achieved. Cynically managing expectations for the next few campaigns maybe?
Setting targets means little unless you you know how to get there.

Thinking about it, the england team have under performed for a long time as well given the squad they have had IMO.
Long term goal statements are great, but there needs to be meat on the bone as to how you get there.
It might happen in time, I'm just sceptical it will for hibs, England can look after themselves but aren't dissimilar.
Running a football club or national side like a business is realistic these days, but you can't have it both ways and ignore that the people at the very top are accountable for long term performance.

I think they have over performed. How many of the England team are the star players at their club?
It used to be that they all were. Not now.

[Posh Swanny]

I'm no expert on international football either.
However if you have a long term target you need a plan as to how to achieve it and measure it.
That could be progress from qualifying for Euros and world cup, to say quarter finals, semi finals at least in the interim if you plan on winning a tournament.
There could be an aim to measure youth development by the U21 and younger teams by their progress in tournaments.
Maybe measure it in the number of English players playing in the Champions league?


Did you listen to or read the entire speech? He definitely said something about performing well in the U20s World Cup and that team progressing together onto the U21s.

[jdships]

Admirable thoughts/ideas - BUT
In practice how many 19/21 yearolds capped at that level go on to be full internationals ?
Anyone got any stats for Scotland/England ?
In England's case I would have thought the problem is that over 70% of players in this seasons Premier League teams are non English !!

:rolleyes:

[3pm]

2022 in Qatar?

Roasting hot with an emphasis on keeping the ball and making your opponents run about after it? Sounds like the English style right enough.

There was a stat the other day that around only 32% of Premiership players were English last year. As long as the money keeps on rolling in nobody is going to bother too much about whether their 1-11 are English. I wouldn't bet on that figure of 32% increasing.

When Spain won the world cup in 2010, the average age of their squad was 26. This is 'fag packet maths' but going on that basis, players who are 16-18 just now will form the basis of that squad....English players at that age, in my opinion, will not transform themselves as footballers. Technique etc has to be drummed into them well before then.

There may be the odd gem that comes through that they get excited about (Jack Wiltshire for example, and who isnae the world class midfielder they will have you believe as good as he is) but will they have a team full of ball players required to win the World Cup? No danger in my opinion.

Pity the poor guy who is in charge in 2022.

[Posh Swanny]

2022 in Qatar?

Roasting hot with an emphasis on keeping the ball and making your opponents run about after it? Sounds like the English style right enough.

There was a stat the other day that around only 32% of Premiership players were English last year. As long as the money keeps on rolling in nobody is going to bother too much about whether their 1-11 are English. I wouldn't bet on that figure of 32% increasing.

When Spain won the world cup in 2010, the average age of their squad was 26. This is 'fag packet maths' but going on that basis, players who are 16-18 just now will form the basis of that squad....English players at that age, in my opinion, will not transform themselves as footballers. Technique etc has to be drummed into them well before then.

There may be the odd gem that comes through that they get excited about (Jack Wiltshire for example, and who isnae the world class midfielder they will have you believe as good as he is) but will they have a team full of ball players required to win the World Cup? No danger in my opinion.

Pity the poor guy who is in charge in 2022.

He may not be world class yet, but by golly he makes a difference to the England midfield whenever he gets himself fit enough to play. He's on a different planet to Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick and the lumbering like - I just hope he stays at Arsenal so he can develop the attacking flair he already possesses, rather than have it coached out of him on his way to becoming a passionate grafting gym-monkey that the dullard masses in this United Kingdom of ours are so keen to worship.

An England starting 11 of Hart, Walker, Gibbs, Jones, Smalling, Cleverley, Wilshere, Barkley, Oxlade, Walcott, Sturridge/Welbeck/Rooney probably wouldn't win next year's world cup either, heck they may not even qualify, but they're all talented football players and there's quite a bit of pace in there, but most of all, they would likely improve by the time the next WC comes around. Obviously that won't happen though as we'll need experienced heads in there - if only to instill a numbing fear of failure in the young 'uns.

[Dunderhall]

Did you listen to or read the entire speech? He definitely said something about performing well in the U20s World Cup and that team progressing together onto the U21s.
Can't say I did to be fair, just the link in the opening post where he is quoted as saying "The two targets I have for the England team are - one, to at least reach the semi-finals of Euro 2020 and two, win the World Cup in 2022."

If there are more specific targets set out then I'd change my opinion and fair play to him if he did.
However phrases like "performing well" and "progressing" don't define anything well enough for me.

I'll see if I can find a transcript of the whole speech.

[Treadstone]

Can't say I did to be fair, just the link in the opening post where he is quoted as saying "The two targets I have for the England team are - one, to at least reach the semi-finals of Euro 2020 and two, win the World Cup in 2022."

If there are more specific targets set out then I'd change my opinion and fair play to him if he did.
However phrases like "performing well" and "progressing" don't define anything well enough for me.

I'll see if I can find a transcript of the whole speech.

Long on bullet points. Short on detail.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPs2EhTd7Q8

[The Falcon]

At least we now know where they went wrong in previous tournaments, they didnt know they should have been trying to win it.

[Deansy]

Think winning the World Cup in 1966 led England to believe it would be a regular thing - it wasn't and will never be. Every World-Cup/Euro tournament they still talk of themselves as 'up there' but historically, they're just not in the same league as the likes of Germany, Brazil, Italy, Argentina etc. With the Premier-League now made up of approx. 65-70% foreign-players, their chances become even more remote.

As for our 'Targets', they're the same as always - do just enough so the board can still split £500,000 between themselves every year !!

[Dunderhall]

Long on bullet points. Short on detail.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPs2EhTd7Q8
Just watched that, it looks like a plan to come up with a plan.
Time will tell of course if they end up doing anything which makes a significant difference.
I can see the commission making a set of recommendations but not the detail as to how to implement it.

Give him credit in recognising and admitting there are performance issues though, getting RP to do something similar would be a start.

[Andy74]

At least we now know where they went wrong in previous tournaments, they didnt know they should have been trying to win it.

Indeed.