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View Full Version : Summer football in Scotland (quite a lot about Hibs)



Prawn Sandwich
03-09-2013, 07:48 PM
This is a good watch. Finally some thought provoking journalism about Scottish football. Personally I'm all for summer football. See what you think? It's about half an hour in duration. A lot easier to watch than anything at Easter Road at the moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1SvwYUjJ1w&feature=youtube_gdata_player

monktonharp
03-09-2013, 11:27 PM
like what I saw, and surprised this thread has not been taken up with a fuller discussion. that fat hun bassa Trainor spoke more sense than I ever thought he was capable of. surprised with a few others too eg: Keevins (celtic lover) Gordon Smith(hun) even the Irishman Tom English, putting the boot in about our game as usual but encouraging the thought of summer football. I was absolutely stunned to see auld Craig Broon saying the same as these guys, calling for summer fitba'. I am not sure when I'd like to see it start (the actual season) but it would be good for all Scottish teams, certainly in the European games , if we were up and running fairly close to some of the teams we are liable to encounter (Malmo springs to mind) when we would be a hellava lot fitter than we are at the start of our euro games at present. another advantage could be, and I'd say could be that the English game stays as it is thereby opening an avenue for Scottish football to make a bit more from the likes of sky, at least for an extra few weeks. apart from that, it's f/kin' cald gaun tae the fitba' in winter. my skin is white, and there's a reason fur that. we are designed to stand cald weather and are not expecting mediterranian weather but we still have to wrap up warm , whilst gaun to the match!

California-Hibs
03-09-2013, 11:59 PM
Very decent documentary and I fully agree that Summer football would be a big positive step forward!

monktonharp
04-09-2013, 12:21 AM
Very decent documentary and I fully agree that Summer football would be a big positive step forward!yep. the state our game is in at the moment, no harm would be done with a trial period next year.

PatHead
04-09-2013, 08:41 PM
With the World Cup being in the winter in 2020 it could be phased to be moved by then. Sure Sky would pay more for Scottish football during the English off-season

Twa Cairpets
04-09-2013, 08:54 PM
Absolute no brainer for me.

At grassroots, girls/womens football and boys up to u12 booming in players, and part of that undoubtedly because we're not forcing bairns to run about in January on frozen or waterlogged parks.

Ten years ago I would have said "winter sport". Now I say sod the tradition, make a new one.

Last point - out of all the people on that video, the St Mirren guy came across as one of the stupidest people in Scottish Football.

Gatecrasher
04-09-2013, 08:57 PM
Summer football is definitely worth a go imo. There will always be people who disagree though.

hibbymick
04-09-2013, 08:58 PM
Winter is depressing enough, but now some folk want to take away the fitbaw as well. Imagine going through winter without having a game to go to.

Ozyhibby
04-09-2013, 09:51 PM
It seems as though about 80% of the people involved in the game in Scotland at all levels think it's the way forward, yet it's not happened.

Gatecrasher
05-09-2013, 08:27 AM
Just had time to watch it, I was very surprised by the amount of support summer football has amongst the people interviewed. Going by what Gordon Smith was saying I wonder what you have to do to make any real change to the Scottish game. The blazers seem to have the game by a tight grip and Scottish football is suffering for it. Turkeys won't vote for Christmas me thinks.

JimBHibees
05-09-2013, 09:17 AM
Absolute no brainer for me.

At grassroots, girls/womens football and boys up to u12 booming in players, and part of that undoubtedly because we're not forcing bairns to run about in January on frozen or waterlogged parks.

Ten years ago I would have said "winter sport". Now I say sod the tradition, make a new one.

Last point - out of all the people on that video, the St Mirren guy came across as one of the stupidest people in Scottish Football.

Completely agree especially with your grassroots comments unfortunately it completely changes when moving to 11s with regard to youth football.

Backto my roots
05-09-2013, 09:54 AM
Got to be the way forward. It might encourage more people to watch games when not sitting in a freezing cold stadium and the standard of play might improve (can't get much worse) by playing on better surfaces and slowing the game down a bit which might suit more technical players.....like Rowan Vine :wink:

offshorehibby
05-09-2013, 10:02 AM
With most of our teams getting papped out of Europe early doors these days, i think we should at least consider it. It could be tried over a couple of season and if it was a disaster look at it again.

Pretty Boy
05-09-2013, 10:10 AM
From a Hibs and Hearts perspective it may also allow us to try to grab a small piece of the Festival/Fring market.

Could maybe even look at a small neutrals section set aside for the purpose, we have the space after all. Must at least be a potential revenue stream as there must be some foreign football fans attend the Festival that would be interested in seeing a game.

SMAXXA
05-09-2013, 10:11 AM
Absolute no brainer for me.

At grassroots, girls/womens football and boys up to u12 booming in players, and part of that undoubtedly because we're not forcing bairns to run about in January on frozen or waterlogged parks.

Ten years ago I would have said "winter sport". Now I say sod the tradition, make a new one.

Last point - out of all the people on that video, the St Mirren guy came across as one of the stupidest people in Scottish Football.

Wernt they against league reconstruction also St Mirren?

Twa Cairpets
05-09-2013, 10:30 AM
Just had time to watch it, I was very surprised by the amount of support summer football has amongst the people interviewed. Going by what Gordon Smith was saying I wonder what you have to do to make any real change to the Scottish game. The blazers seem to have the game by a tight grip and Scottish football is suffering for it. Turkeys won't vote for Christmas me thinks.

While Regan gets a lot of often deserved stick, one thing he has dozen is radically overhaul,the structure from Smiths time in charge. smith identified the issue but couldn't change it. Regan has.

There is still a lot of "tradition", but I have to say having been involved around the edgess if some change projects the drive is their from the SFA, by and large, it is the clubs and Leagues that are resistant. This isn't "blazers" protecting some free hospitality I'd the occasional freebie, it's otherwise hard working guys who sometimes don't see the bigger picture putting up often spurious barriers. Take the st mirren boy "some people bowl in the summer". So what. Some people don't like exposing themsleves and their children to the risk of hypothermia in the winter.

Ozyhibby
05-09-2013, 11:05 AM
What this needs is someone to set up a campaign group which includes supporters from all clubs to exert the necessary pressure.

erin go bragh
05-09-2013, 05:09 PM
This should come with a warning :shocked:all 7 goals included against us . summer football is the way ahead imo.

ggtth

Bishop Hibee
05-09-2013, 07:37 PM
Summer football would be the end of my ST. No point when I'd be missing games due to holday's etc. Look at how few teams who play in summer leagues qualified for the Champions and Europa Leagues group stages. Clutching at straws.

rcarter1
05-09-2013, 08:47 PM
This should come with a warning :shocked:all 7 goals included against us . summer football is the way ahead imo.

ggtth

Happily they missed one.(?)..

Anyway an otherwise thoroughly enjoyable program. Good to see a lot of the games 'big fish' discussing the option. Id be in favour of an intensive start to the schedule in March with a mini league type Cup competition to allow teams to get to speed/match fit, then start the league proper around April - October. Scottish Cup Quarter Finals, Semi Finals and Final to be played at Hampden in November to finish in festive spirit.

:xwave:cup:

Alfred E Newman
05-09-2013, 09:36 PM
Same old chestnut. The idea that we would suddenly start playing football like Brazil or Spain is pie in the sky. I sat in brilliant sunshine last Saturday and watched one of the worst games of football I have ever seen. The problems with our game have nothing to do with the weather.

Alfred E Newman
05-09-2013, 09:41 PM
Happily they missed one.(?)..

Anyway an otherwise thoroughly enjoyable program. Good to see a lot of the games 'big fish' discussing the option. Id be in favour of an intensive start to the schedule in March with a mini league type Cup competition to allow teams to get to speed/match fit, then start the league proper around April - October. Scottish Cup Quarter Finals, Semi Finals and Final to be played at Hampden in November to finish in festive spirit.

:xwave:cup:

So you are going to play the whole season in 7 months? It takes 10 at the moment . The Cup final at the end of November? Crazy.

rcarter1
05-09-2013, 09:58 PM
So you are going to play the whole season in 7 months? It takes 10 at the moment . The Cup final at the end of November? Crazy.

A little I suppose... But it would be closer to 8 months for the league, and there would be no League Cup and only a couple Scottish cup ties to fit in. You could start February to stretch it out perhaps. The advantage of having a Mini League/League Cup at the start would allow teams to get to speed, try stuff out before the league itself started.
As for a November Scottish Cup Final - if you have Summer Football youre going to have a Scottish Cup Final around then (or have it in the middle of the season).

Unseen work
05-09-2013, 10:07 PM
Would love to see it and would improve our game massively from grass roots straight to first team and IMO the quality would be a lot better.

although I can see a lot of professionals being raging bout not getting there summer holidays. Sure griffiths said that about it when asked. And tbh I couldn't blame them

rcarter1
05-09-2013, 10:28 PM
Would love to see it and would improve our game massively from grass roots straight to first team and IMO the quality would be a lot better.

although I can see a lot of professionals being raging bout not getting there summer holidays. Sure griffiths said that about it when asked. And tbh I couldn't blame them

They are missing a trick. By having the big holidays over winter, you can go away somewhere sunny and beat the winter blues..

Unseen work
05-09-2013, 11:05 PM
They are missing a trick. By having the big holidays over winter, you can go away somewhere sunny and beat the winter blues..

From a purely fans and selfish point of view. But who wants to go away in the winter instead of the summer. All year everyone looks forward to there summer holiday. Also would mean they can't go away with there mates as there likely to go in summer.

joebakerforever
05-09-2013, 11:29 PM
Changing to Summer football could see a decrease in attendances and Season ticket sales.

There is greater competition for leisure time in the Summer from family demands (package holidays, weekend holiday breaks), participation in other Summer sports (golf, tennis, cricket, outdoor water sports, etc. ) or following them (horse racing, golf, etc.)

IMO, the experience of watching football in warm conditions, the game is played at a more languid tempo, bordering on boring.

So for me, I would probably not renew my Season ticket, as I have other pastimes in the Summer which would clash with weekend football in particular.

monktonharp
05-09-2013, 11:42 PM
From a purely fans and selfish point of view. But who wants to go away in the winter instead of the summer. All year everyone looks forward to there summer holiday. Also would mean they can't go away with there mates as there likely to go in summer. if we get a few summers like we've had this year, who wants to go away? go away when the rain/ice/snaw comes. unless you are intae sledgin' or ski-ing.:greengrin by the way, did you mean " their" 3 times?

monktonharp
05-09-2013, 11:51 PM
From a purely fans and selfish point of view. But who wants to go away in the winter instead of the summer. All year everyone looks forward to there summer holiday. Also would mean they can't go away with there mates as there likely to go in summer.not all football fans go with their mates on holiday because "their" mates happen to be going on holiday. think you should amend your post to:selfish point of view. I actually take a holiday, if I can afford it or if lack of work/work determines it. the world has changed dramatically over a few years. Scottish football is languishing at the back of the queue, on the boarding ramp of the big ship.

frazeHFC
05-09-2013, 11:57 PM
Say it every time this comes up, but dead against it as is my dad and brother. For us the summer is great as we love a game of golf on a Saturday. That and with holidays, visiting family I don't see all year etc, would mean none of us would even consider a season ticket, it would be pointless. Plus as mentioned football is the only thing that keeps us sane during the winter months at times.

rcarter1
06-09-2013, 07:49 AM
Changing to Summer football could see a decrease in attendances and Season ticket sales.

There is greater competition for leisure time in the Summer from family demands (package holidays, weekend holiday breaks), participation in other Summer sports (golf, tennis, cricket, outdoor water sports, etc. ) or following them (horse racing, golf, etc.)

IMO, the experience of watching football in warm conditions, the game is played at a more languid tempo, bordering on boring.

So for me, I would probably not renew my Season ticket, as I have other pastimes in the Summer which would clash with weekend football in particular.

Fair point, summer could be a busy time for folk. How about the league starts late Feb and cracks on until the end of May. Then June and July is set aside for a mini league/Cup format (ala World Cup style). Season ticket holders can choose cup top up or give it a miss. League cracks on August through to mid November. Include an Optional Christmas Trophy to cater for the festive football demand..

dangermouse
06-09-2013, 08:02 AM
if we get a few summers like we've had this year, who wants to go away? go away when the rain/ice/snaw comes. unless you are intae sledgin' or ski-ing.:greengrin by the way, did you mean " their" 3 times?

No, he meant their twice and they're once :greengrin

Ozyhibby
06-09-2013, 08:28 AM
There will obviously be some it does not suit but everywhere they have made the switch, attendances have risen.
Do people in Ireland not play golf?

Prawn Sandwich
06-09-2013, 08:37 AM
There will obviously be some it does not suit but everywhere they have made the switch, attendances have risen.
Do people in Ireland not play golf?

Ireland had huge spectator competition from Irish sports in the summer; hurling and Gaelic football. They get huge attendances of 10-20,000 at county level and the finals at Croke Park they get up to 90,000.

Leishy1995
06-09-2013, 08:50 AM
For those comparing it to the ladies game, they take a month off at the mid way point of the season. This is their summer holidays.

MyJo
06-09-2013, 09:26 AM
Run the season from march to November. Have a 16 team premiership and a 16 team championship playing 30 games a season. Restructure the league cup to be a champions league style competition with these 32 clubs divided into groups of 4 playing each other twice. Have these group stages played in a 6 week period from mid-June to the end of July. Fans can purchase a season ticket for just league matches and have this 6 week period for holidays and whatever else they fancy doing rather than going to the football and they are no worse off as a result or they can buy a cup top-up to include the 3 guaranteed home games of the league cup group stages in thier season ticket. This would also accommodate for World Cup and euro championship years if needed.

Ozyhibby
06-09-2013, 10:01 AM
Same old chestnut. The idea that we would suddenly start playing football like Brazil or Spain is pie in the sky. I sat in brilliant sunshine last Saturday and watched one of the worst games of football I have ever seen. The problems with our game have nothing to do with the weather.

I haven't seen anyone say that moving to the summer would have us playing like Spain and Brazil. Did you just make that up?

Alfred E Newman
06-09-2013, 02:07 PM
Run the season from march to November. Have a 16 team premiership and a 16 team championship playing 30 games a season. Restructure the league cup to be a champions league style competition with these 32 clubs divided into groups of 4 playing each other twice. Have these group stages played in a 6 week period from mid-June to the end of July. Fans can purchase a season ticket for just league matches and have this 6 week period for holidays and whatever else they fancy doing rather than going to the football and they are no worse off as a result or they can buy a cup top-up to include the 3 guaranteed home games of the league cup group stages in thier season ticket. This would also accommodate for World Cup and euro championship years if needed.

Where would the clubs income come from during the 3 month shut down? Wages etc would still need to be payed .

marinello59
06-09-2013, 02:16 PM
Same old chestnut. The idea that we would suddenly start playing football like Brazil or Spain is pie in the sky. I sat in brilliant sunshine last Saturday and watched one of the worst games of football I have ever seen. The problems with our game have nothing to do with the weather.

The problems are not all to do with our weather. But I would love to hear somebody argue that playing in better conditions is unlikely to result in technically better football being played. The only arguments people seemed to put up are related to 'traditions'. Well it's time to forget tradition and move on because it isn't working just now. Our working and family lives have changed radically over the past thirty years yet football is supposed to remain the same for evermore. It's bonkers.

Andy74
06-09-2013, 02:39 PM
In our climate having a couple of months of the season changed around would make little difference.

Ozyhibby
06-09-2013, 03:14 PM
In our climate having a couple of months of the season changed around would make little difference.

You don't think that the weather is better in May/June/July than December/January/Febuary?

MyJo
06-09-2013, 03:24 PM
Where would the clubs income come from during the 3 month shut down? Wages etc would still need to be payed .

I would assume it would work the same as it does just now, given that the close season just finished was 11 weeks long anyway?

Andy74
06-09-2013, 03:26 PM
You don't think that the weather is better in May/June/July than December/January/Febuary?

No, I don't think changing those months over would make much difference to quality of football or bringing kids through any better as players.

marinello59
06-09-2013, 03:41 PM
No, I don't think changing those months over would make much difference to quality of football or bringing kids through any better as players.

Having kids playing Fitba in the Winter months is utter madness . I've see kids so cold they were nearly crying by the time the game was over. They certainly weren't playing anywhere near to the best of their abilities. Training in a winter rainstorm was hardly the best either.

Alfred E Newman
06-09-2013, 08:57 PM
Having kids playing Fitba in the Winter months is utter madness . I've see kids so cold they were nearly crying by the time the game was over. They certainly weren't playing anywhere near to the best of their abilities. Training in a winter rainstorm was hardly the best either.

Makes you wonder how the game has lasted as long.

marinello59
06-09-2013, 09:12 PM
Makes you wonder how the game has lasted as long.

Every other aspect of life evolves and adapts. Fitba in this country may well have lasted but it is stagnating. Why should it be immune from change?

Purple & Green
06-09-2013, 09:22 PM
Having kids playing Fitba in the Winter months is utter madness . I've see kids so cold they were nearly crying by the time the game was over. They certainly weren't playing anywhere near to the best of their abilities. Training in a winter rainstorm was hardly the best either.

I can remember one particular game my son was so cold, and drenched through I felt it was child abuse. It's madness IMHO.

Andy74
06-09-2013, 10:50 PM
Having kids playing Fitba in the Winter months is utter madness . I've see kids so cold they were nearly crying by the time the game was over. They certainly weren't playing anywhere near to the best of their abilities. Training in a winter rainstorm was hardly the best either.

We'd still have to play in those conditions regardless. It's cold outwith December and January.

ScottB
06-09-2013, 11:08 PM
I suppose there's 2 ways of looking at it...

Either the Scottish game would be able to free itself of direct competition with the English game, and have the potential to attract a bigger audience of people with no other football to watch.

Or attention drops, as people are busy with other things in the summer and the wider UK market doesn't care because they need a break from football and the product is still crap to watch anyway...

Sir David Gray
06-09-2013, 11:20 PM
We'd still have to play in those conditions regardless. It's cold outwith December and January.

:agree: Which is the reason that I don't see the point in moving the season.

Our football season lasts for 10 months of the year. If people want summer football, the possible scenarios are;

January-October
February-November
March-December

I have made this point over and over again whenever this discussion crops up, which is that the really cold weather in Scotland can occur any time between November and February (in fact in March this year, we were still having blizzards and Arctic temperatures). I think that's something that people are forgetting whenever they bring up the idea of summer football.

Regardless of when you start the season a part of it will always be played during the winter, unless the season is played over fewer months.

ScottB
07-09-2013, 12:34 PM
:agree: Which is the reason that I don't see the point in moving the season.

Our football season lasts for 10 months of the year. If people want summer football, the possible scenarios are;

January-October
February-November
March-December

I have made this point over and over again whenever this discussion crops up, which is that the really cold weather in Scotland can occur any time between November and February (in fact in March this year, we were still having blizzards and Arctic temperatures). I think that's something that people are forgetting whenever they bring up the idea of summer football.

Regardless of when you start the season a part of it will always be played during the winter, unless the season is played over fewer months.

Plus some of our recent summers have been so wet that games would have been called off due to waterlogged pitches.

rcarter1
07-09-2013, 01:12 PM
:agree: Which is the reason that I don't see the point in moving the season.

Our football season lasts for 10 months of the year. If people want summer football, the possible scenarios are;

January-October
February-November
March-December

I have made this point over and over again whenever this discussion crops up, which is that the really cold weather in Scotland can occur any time between November and February (in fact in March this year, we were still having blizzards and Arctic temperatures). I think that's something that people are forgetting whenever they bring up the idea of summer football.

Regardless of when you start the season a part of it will always be played during the winter, unless the season is played over fewer months.

I think the aim is not to pretend that there will be no bad weather at all, but to reduce it over the season.
As you say bad weather can happen at any time, but currently I would say that November is a better month than December/January. February is a gamble of course, but that suggests that March to December is perhaps the best for the weather. Finishing off just before Christmas is a nice thought, and would allow players a proper festive period.

That brings the June/July period into focus, which you could use for League Cup and Scottish cup type games (possibly in group formats etc). This would enable League season ticket holders to use the traditional summer holiday period as they wish, and provide the summer football fans wth games to go to.

Of course it wouldnt be good for those who love a dark, freezing, skint, post New Year blues mid January kind of experience.. :greengrin

lucky
07-09-2013, 02:50 PM
Attendances are falling, the standard is also falling if something drastic does not happen they Scottish football is going to die. TV money has made it impossible for Scottish clubs to compete with the English clubs. The EPL and Championship clubs are now able to take players of the Old Firm. The rest of us struggle to attract players fron league 1 and 2. Leigh Griffiths was the stand out player last year in the SPL and now leads the line for Scotland yet he plays in the third tier off the English league. If we don't try something radical as summer football then we will continue to see the demise of Scottish football.

blackpoolhibs
07-09-2013, 02:57 PM
Attendances are falling, the standard is also falling if something drastic does not happen they Scottish football is going to die. TV money has made it impossible for Scottish clubs to compete with the English clubs. The EPL and Championship clubs are now able to take players of the Old Firm. The rest of us struggle to attract players fron league 1 and 2. Leigh Griffiths was the stand out player last year in the SPL and now leads the line for Scotland yet he plays in the third tier off the English league. If we don't try something radical as summer football then we will continue to see the demise of Scottish football.

:agree:

ScottB
07-09-2013, 05:58 PM
I'm not sure how it works elsewhere but wouldn't the transfer window cause chaos?

I suppose it could make things harder in terms of rebuilding a squad in what would be the pre season, given as that would be the January window. Secondly players signed in what would be our mid season window would be arriving either tired from a full season, or unfit after a summer holiday.