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kaimendhibs
22-08-2013, 02:49 PM
I can't remember the last time I had less enthusiasm for a new season and I've watched hibs for 40 plus years. Our displays have been rotten, the results have been rotten, our crowds are dropping, we have no sign of any signings in the offing. Something has to change for the better soon or I am ready to call it a day.


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Bleeds green
22-08-2013, 02:56 PM
Call it a day then!! We're all pissed off but negative attitudes like yours are what is ultimately filtering through from the stands to the players on match days causing tension in there play and a lack of confidence, just suck it up get behind them and see where we are come xmas

kaimendhibs
22-08-2013, 03:02 PM
Sorry mate but you no Nowt. My negative attitude? I go to every home game, season ticket holder and every away game I can. I buy merchandise and like your user name suggests, bleed green. How is it the fans fault we are garbage, have no tactics or no plan? Are you serious? I am about calling it a day but dont blame me for the teams failings.


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Spike Mandela
22-08-2013, 03:05 PM
Sorry mate but you no Nowt. My negative attitude? I go to every home game, season ticket holder and every away game I can. I buy merchandise and like your user name suggests, bleed green. How is it the fans fault we are garbage, have no tactics or no plan? Are you serious? I am about calling it a day but dont blame me for the teams failings.


Sent from my iPhone at home on crutches

Ordinaty players, ordinary manager and a very ordinary team. Other than a football fan's perverse sense of loyalty there is no logical reason to spend time and money at Easter Road. Everybody has their tipping point and you may have reached yours.

1068gary
22-08-2013, 03:13 PM
You've bought the season ticket, so you might as well go! We will improve!

Steve20
22-08-2013, 03:24 PM
Call it a day then!! We're all pissed off but negative attitudes like yours are what is ultimately filtering through from the stands to the players on match days causing tension in there play and a lack of confidence


I see it's now not the terrible manager or the players who can't do the simplest things, but the fans are to blame for us being hopeless.

I actually think the players get it quite easy from our fans, compared to other teams and when you think of the rubbish we've had to put up with.

pacorosssco
22-08-2013, 03:32 PM
Call it a day then!! We're all pissed off but negative attitudes like yours are what is ultimately filtering through from the stands to the players on match days causing tension in there play and a lack of confidence, just suck it up get behind them and see where we are come xmas

Harsh:confused:

CB_NO3
22-08-2013, 03:33 PM
I agree. We are the biggest losers in Scottish football, well add Aberdeen to that list. I hate getting beat from mighty big clubs like Ross County, St Johnstone, ICT and Motherwell. Pitty we could not get into Europe by having the nicest stadium in the league, or for having a pretty training ground. The end of the day we are a rank football team and we have been my whole life time minus the odd season. People need to remember that but if they are happy with being that level then good on them, am certainly not. We should be top 5 at least every season IMO. And dont give me this rubbish about supporting the team, we as fans have stuck by the club after years of under achievment, bought season tickets in decent numbers with little or nothing to shout about.

Time For Heroes
22-08-2013, 04:02 PM
Sorry mate but you no Nowt. My negative attitude? I go to every home game, season ticket holder and every away game I can. I buy merchandise and like your user name suggests, bleed green. How is it the fans fault we are garbage, have no tactics or no plan? Are you serious? I am about calling it a day but dont blame me for the teams failings.


Sent from my iPhone at home on crutches
:tub4: sorry, couldn't resist. :greengrin On a serious note mate things will improve, they always do, keep the chin up - you never know this might be our year!:fishin:

Bleeds green
22-08-2013, 04:20 PM
I have no time for anybody calling themselves a hibs fan but said they r ready to 'call it a day' couldn't care if uv had a season ticket for the last 40 years that attitude does my heed in I know a cupl younger players in the squad and YES the talk is between players how they at times hate playing at ER as they know any mistake and there likely to be pounced on, say what u want about me couldn't give a ****, things will improve but players must be allowed freedom to express themselves without negativity from the stands 3 games into a 38 game season

Hibercelona
22-08-2013, 04:24 PM
Every year we're told things will improve because they can't get any worse. But the club still finds a way of making everything worse.

Fair play to those who are willing to wait season after season for nothing at all. But don't slate the fans that have simply had enough.

Hibercelona
22-08-2013, 04:25 PM
I have no time for anybody calling themselves a hibs fan but said they r ready to 'call it a day' couldn't care if uv had a season ticket for the last 40 years that attitude does my heed in I know a cupl younger players in the squad and YES the talk is between players how they at times hate playing at ER as they know any mistake and there likely to be pounced on, say what u want about me couldn't give a ****, things will improve but players must be allowed freedom to express themselves without negativity from the stands 3 games into a 38 game season

Do the players reckon they'd get it easier from fans anywhere else? We're the easiest set of football fans in the world.

BH Hibs
22-08-2013, 04:27 PM
I have no time for anybody calling themselves a hibs fan but said they r ready to 'call it a day' couldn't care if uv had a season ticket for the last 40 years that attitude does my heed in I know a cupl younger players in the squad and YES the talk is between players how they at times hate playing at ER as they know any mistake and there likely to be pounced on, say what u want about me couldn't give a ****, things will improve but players must be allowed freedom to express themselves without negativity from the stands 3 games into a 38 game season

Or alternatively they could grow a set. Do you think the tornadoes never got shouted at? I don't advocate giving players abuse for the sake of it but to blame the fans for them playing pish is ridiculous.:flag:

The Falcon
22-08-2013, 04:28 PM
Every year we're told things will improve because they can't get any worse. But the club still finds a way of making everything worse.

Fair play to those who are willing to wait season after season for nothing at all. But don't slate the fans that have simply had enough.

Are we worse than two years ago?

Hibercelona
22-08-2013, 04:31 PM
Are we worse than two years ago?

Right now, I'd go as far to say we are. (No poetic rhyme intended)

basehibby
22-08-2013, 04:31 PM
I can't remember the last time I had less enthusiasm for a new season and I've watched hibs for 40 plus years. Our displays have been rotten, the results have been rotten, our crowds are dropping, we have no sign of any signings in the offing. Something has to change for the better soon or I am ready to call it a day.


Sent from my iPhone at home on crutches

Got to say you're not alone - we need a winger type player to add a different dimension to our play - an attacking dimension!

But targets are coming and going and bugger all is occuring but a sickly sense of deja-vu.

As many have pointed out, with the Huns out of the game and the Jamboloids toiling WE SHOULD BE GOING FOR IT FFS!!!

All I'm seeing though is the fans getting short changed once again as SERIOUS games come and go with a big massive chunk of creativity missing from the team which is costing us points and Qudos every week. I'm not sure whether to blame the manager or the hierarchy at the club but I'm sick of it. We ALL deserve better

kaimendhibs
22-08-2013, 04:40 PM
I have no time for anybody calling themselves a hibs fan but said they r ready to 'call it a day' couldn't care if uv had a season ticket for the last 40 years that attitude does my heed in I know a cupl younger players in the squad and YES the talk is between players how they at times hate playing at ER as they know any mistake and there likely to be pounced on, say what u want about me couldn't give a ****, things will improve but players must be allowed freedom to express themselves without negativity from the stands 3 games into a 38 game season

Guess we will never be pals then. I'm not in the stand right now and fwiw I don't go to games and abuse the players. Thanks for the lecture tho


Sent from my iPhone at home on crutches

basehibby
22-08-2013, 04:41 PM
I have no time for anybody calling themselves a hibs fan but said they r ready to 'call it a day' couldn't care if uv had a season ticket for the last 40 years that attitude does my heed in I know a cupl younger players in the squad and YES the talk is between players how they at times hate playing at ER as they know any mistake and there likely to be pounced on, say what u want about me couldn't give a ****, things will improve but players must be allowed freedom to express themselves without negativity from the stands 3 games into a 38 game season

Got to say I find that very hard to swallow. Personally I am a very positive supporter and the boo boy element have always got right up my nose. But the notion of any footballer HATING playing at ER? I find that OFFENSIVE!
If any players are watching in then FFS collectively GROW A PAIR. You should all be relishing every week the opportunity to take the negative numpties' attitude and stuff it right back down their throats and make them eat their words rather than hiding! You will get negative dimwits at EVERY club, but you will struggle to find as passionate and faithfull a band of supporters as the Hibees - it is a PRIVALEDGE and an HONOUR to pull on a Hibees strip and walk out at ER - Never forget it!

kaimendhibs
22-08-2013, 04:50 PM
Exactly. I have never ever booed the team but am totally disallisioned right now. I would absolutely love to have my negativity at this moment thrown back at me by the players, thus giving me back my hibs mojo. Or sommat like that


Sent from my iPhone at home on crutches

Heedersnvolleys
22-08-2013, 06:03 PM
I see it's now not the terrible manager or the players who can't do the simplest things, but the fans are to blame for us being hopeless.

I actually think the players get it quite easy from our fans, compared to other teams and when you think of the rubbish we've had to put up with.


I have been saying similar on another thread. I think we do give our players an easy ride, there are some who do get it a bit tight but it is because they can't make 5yd passes or track back with a player etc.... I don't know any hibee that expects too much.

Keith_M
22-08-2013, 06:14 PM
I can't remember the last time I had less enthusiasm for a new season and I've watched hibs for 40 plus years. Our displays have been rotten, the results have been rotten, our crowds are dropping, we have no sign of any signings in the offing. Something has to change for the better soon or I am ready to call it a day.


Sent from my iPhone at home on crutches


Don't get so down, we're just going through a Transitional Period :wink:

stoneyburn hibs
22-08-2013, 06:19 PM
Don't get so down, we're just going through a Transitional Period :wink:

Aye we should be out of it in about eh, erm........

Hibernia&Alba
22-08-2013, 06:32 PM
It's very worrying that a number of posters on here who have been watching the team for years, sometimes decades, like the OP, are saying they're at breaking point. It's fans like they who are backbone of the club, and Hibs can't afford to lose them. We need those guys/girls who have displayed such loyalty and who often introduce the next generation of supporters to the club. The diehards can't be taken for granted. At some point even they will walk away, the consequences of which could be profound.

The Green Goblin
22-08-2013, 06:37 PM
Change at the very top needed before things get more positive with any long term consistency. The same old stuff from the q&a last night really convinced me of that with some certainty.

Chump
22-08-2013, 06:57 PM
I have no time for anybody calling themselves a hibs fan but said they r ready to 'call it a day' couldn't care if uv had a season ticket for the last 40 years that attitude does my heed in I know a cupl younger players in the squad and YES the talk is between players how they at times hate playing at ER as they know any mistake and there likely to be pounced on, say what u want about me couldn't give a ****, things will improve but players must be allowed freedom to express themselves without negativity from the stands 3 games into a 38 game season

what a crock of s**t.....a word of advice....tell your mates who play at Hibs to either deal with it or get a new career!! The last time I checked they would walk into any other club and they'd get the same treatment when things aren't going well and don't kid yourself anything else....hibs fans are no better or no worse

If they really want to be professional footballers and not we boys wrapped in cotton wool then they will have to adapt and learn to block it out for just 90 mins of the week.....most of us are at risk of criticism 9am until 5pm so get a set or get out of the club! harsh but a fact...

as for 3 games into 38 - I'd say it more like 200 of the last 228 that have left my eyes bleeding

givescotlandfreedom
22-08-2013, 07:59 PM
I agree with you it's hard to see any positives at the moment on or off the field. I think if folk who have supported the club for years are this frustrsted ee should take note. KaimendHibs won't call it a day (he couldn't stay away for two weeks!) though the clouds will lift some way or another and we'll be back.

les83
22-08-2013, 08:57 PM
lets face it - besides loyalty why would any of us want to go back to ER?
It's been crap for years we've got a manager who's seen us utterly humiliated in a cup final and destroyed by an average swedish side and yet his position is apparently safe. We've seen so many crappy defeats to clubs with no fans and no money. The standard of football is dire, the whole matchday atmosphere is crap. The manager hasn't got a clue, the players look like they couldn't care less...
so I have to agree - there's hee haw to get excited about!!!

Gustavo Fring
22-08-2013, 09:04 PM
the only excitment we will get this season is if hertz go pop .

joe breezy
22-08-2013, 09:06 PM
Friends, laughs and fun - it's all there at Easter Road

brog
22-08-2013, 09:24 PM
I've supported Hibs for 60 years, I've seen good times & too many bad times & right now we're a long way away from where I want us to be. However, as frustrated as I am I can't for the life of me understand why any Hibs fan would want to start a thread like this. Continually proclaiming how crap we are does nothing to make us better. If you have constructive suggestions for improvement, great, but otherwise please just stop dragging us down with you.
LTYF, always wanted to say that!

Saorsa
22-08-2013, 09:30 PM
I've supported Hibs for 60 years, I've seen good times & too many bad times & right now we're a long way away from where I want us to be. However, as frustrated as I am I can't for the life of me understand why any Hibs fan would want to start a thread like this. Continually proclaiming how crap we are does nothing to make us better. If you have constructive suggestions for improvement, great, but otherwise please just stop dragging us down with you.
LTYF, always wanted to say that!I'm sure there are lots, unfortunately those who run this club winnae listen tae anything that challenges their way of doing things because they think they are doing a great job. The falling attendances and lack of atmosphere at ER tell a different story.

kaimendhibs
22-08-2013, 09:50 PM
I've supported Hibs for 60 years, I've seen good times & too many bad times & right now we're a long way away from where I want us to be. However, as frustrated as I am I can't for the life of me understand why any Hibs fan would want to start a thread like this. Continually proclaiming how crap we are does nothing to make us better. If you have constructive suggestions for improvement, great, but otherwise please just stop dragging us down with you.
LTYF, always wanted to say that!

How about, get a new manager with tactical nouse, a chairman who understands football and a scout who can unearth hidden gems for a start? If you don't agree with me that's absolutely fine but never ever call me a yam. You don't have to be dragged down with me, you have your own mind and you chose to read the thread despite its title. Stand by and take whatever our beloved club feeds you if that's your bag, it's not mine. One last thing, read all my posts and then come back here and state I CONTINUALLY proclaim how crap we are. On that nite, are we good?


Sent from my iPhone at home on crutches

Glory Lurker
22-08-2013, 09:55 PM
I have no problem with the OP posting a thread like this. Yes, it's negative but I think it sums up where an awful lot of us are. I know I am.

Let's face it, without change, we are looking at an increasingly detached support. We go in disinterested, get driven to distraction, grumble to varying degrees. Week-on-week the only thing that changes is the increasing risk that more and more folk will just chuck it in. The powers-that-be have to realise that this is a real danger. Okay, it might not have the desired effect, but I would much rather we try to make this message hit home through negative posts on .net than sit quiet and the message be delivered through falling gates and income.

snooky
22-08-2013, 10:15 PM
It's very worrying that a number of posters on here who have been watching the team for years, sometimes decades, like the OP, are saying they're at breaking point. It's fans like they who are backbone of the club, and Hibs can't afford to lose them. We need those guys/girls who have displayed such loyalty and who often introduce the next generation of supporters to the club. The diehards can't be taken for granted. At some point even they will walk away, the consequences of which could be profound.

:agree: And the Neros fiddle on while HFC is burning.

Pete
23-08-2013, 03:44 AM
Fair play to those who are willing to wait season after season for nothing at all. But don't slate the fans that have simply had enough.

I agree we shouldn't slate them. They are now irrelevant when it comes to Hibs and deserve no recognition whatsoever.

These martyrs will no doubt grudgingly come back to any game of significance that we reach and will find some cock and bull to justify their attendance if Pat and Rod are still there.

IWasThere2016
23-08-2013, 05:02 AM
I agree we shouldn't slate them. They are now irrelevant when it comes to Hibs and deserve no recognition whatsoever.

These martyrs will no doubt grudgingly come back to any game of significance that we reach and will find some cock and bull to justify their attendance if Pat and Rod are still there.

Jeez - is there any need for that first sentence?

I'll be at two games next month - not particularly looking forward to them. Not sure I'll be enthusiastic nor excited pre-k.o. but I'll go. Why? I'm not sure why because I fully understand and appreciate that recent performances/results have been to much for some, and it is their choice at the end of the day.

Bear in mind, some who have stopped have spent years watching Hibs - spending time and money doing so - before making the decision to stop.

You're right, they may come back, most certainly will for 'bigger' games or when the team are playing better - what's wrong with that? Would you rather they didn't?

Onion
23-08-2013, 05:12 AM
I have no time for anybody calling themselves a hibs fan but said they r ready to 'call it a day' couldn't care if uv had a season ticket for the last 40 years that attitude does my heed in I know a cupl younger players in the squad and YES the talk is between players how they at times hate playing at ER as they know any mistake and there likely to be pounced on, say what u want about me couldn't give a ****, things will improve but players must be allowed freedom to express themselves without negativity from the stands 3 games into a 38 game season

Keep digging :rolleyes:

Northernhibee
23-08-2013, 06:19 AM
what a crock of s**t.....a word of advice....tell your mates who play at Hibs to either deal with it or get a new career!! The last time I checked they would walk into any other club and they'd get the same treatment when things aren't going well and don't kid yourself anything else....hibs fans are no better or no worse

If they really want to be professional footballers and not we boys wrapped in cotton wool then they will have to adapt and learn to block it out for just 90 mins of the week.....most of us are at risk of criticism 9am until 5pm so get a set or get out of the club! harsh but a fact...

as for 3 games into 38 - I'd say it more like 200 of the last 228 that have left my eyes bleeding

And yet they go to other clubs with less critical fans and suddenly improve. It's not the main problem but with all the posts asking why players leave us and start to improve I would have hoped some would have correlated the two.

Pete
23-08-2013, 06:58 AM
Jeez - is there any need for that first sentence?

I'll be at two games next month - not particularly looking forward to them. Not sure I'll be enthusiastic nor excited pre-k.o. but I'll go. Why? I'm not sure why because I fully understand and appreciate that recent performances/results have been to much for some, and it is their choice at the end of the day.

Bear in mind, some who have stopped have spent years watching Hibs - spending time and money doing so - before making the decision to stop.

You're right, they may come back, most certainly will for 'bigger' games or when the team are playing better - what's wrong with that? Would you rather they didn't?

What I meant was that they deserve neither praise or scorn. They certainly shouldn't be patted on the back for their actions and have people begging. The team needs them now. I don't give a monkeys about Petrie or Fenlon, the players in green and white need them NOW, not whenever an appropriate leadership is in place.

I'm no uberfan but the reactions of other so called supporters are grinding me down. They're behaving primarily like dissatisfied customers, stakeholders, activists and consumers.

So pissed off and it's nothing to do with the football or the management.

I'm off and I'll be back once the revolution is over. I'll be the one clapping in the FF if anyone wants a word :-D

greenpaper55
23-08-2013, 07:08 AM
And yet they go to other clubs with less critical fans and suddenly improve. It's not the main problem but with all the posts asking why players leave us and start to improve I would have hoped some would have correlated the two.

Ah yes the old "it's the fans fault ", maybe it's because when they go to other clubs the manager has a wee bit tactical sense and gets the best out of payers, our managerial sackings by our board who thought them not good enough after a couple of years shows where the problem lies.

jeffers
23-08-2013, 07:12 AM
Ah yes the old "it's the fans fault ", maybe it's because when they go to other clubs the manager has a wee bit tactical sense and gets the best out of payers, our managerial sackings by our board who thought them not good enough after a couple of years shows where the problem lies.
Absolutely spot on. For those who criticise the fans for wanting managers out, please tell me how well these managers have done since leaving Hibs.........IMO the only manager who has done anything of note elsewhere is Mixu and even he admitted he wasn't ready for the Hibs job at the time.

maturehibby
23-08-2013, 09:17 AM
I can't remember the last time I had less enthusiasm for a new season and I've watched hibs for 40 plus years. Our displays have been rotten, the results have been rotten, our crowds are dropping, we have no sign of any signings in the offing. Something has to change for the better soon or I am ready to call it a day.


Sent from my iPhone at home on crutches
This scares me and made me think about my own position and Kaimend has laid his Heart on the line here folks - I have followed the team for over 60 years and the first half of the game on saturday was deplorable - Fenlon has lost the dressing room and the "Fight" back by the players was not as a result of his tactics but by the injustice of a poor refereeing decision .
The warning signs have been there since the start of the season a 0-0 draw against Raith granted it was a friendly but the smellies went and rattled in 5 the next game - the Malmo disaster / Fiasco - the Motherwell humping and even worse getting beat by Hearts under 20,s .
It is clear that the Manager has run out of ideas and tactics that have worked in Ireland are not working here and he has had time to change things but his changes have not worked so Pat nice man as you are its time to go .
Kaimend you are commended for having the courage and conviction to put your neck on the Block on this site - well done and I too stand along side you on this very very serious topic

maturehibby
23-08-2013, 09:26 AM
I can't remember the last time I had less enthusiasm for a new season and I've watched hibs for 40 plus years. Our displays have been rotten, the results have been rotten, our crowds are dropping, we have no sign of any signings in the offing. Something has to change for the better soon or I am ready to call it a day.


Sent from my iPhone at home on crutches
This scares me and made me think about my own position and Kaimend has laid his Heart on the line here folks - I have followed the team for over 60 years and the first half of the game on saturday was deplorable - Fenlon has lost the dressing room and the "Fight" back by the players was not as a result of his tactics but by the injustice of a poor refereeing decision .
The warning signs have been there since the start of the season a 0-0 draw against Raith granted it was a friendly but the smellies went and rattled in 5 the next game - the Malmo disaster / Fiasco - the Motherwell humping and even worse getting beat by Hearts under 20,s .
It is clear that the Manager has run out of ideas and tactics that have worked in Ireland are not working here and he has had time to change things but his changes have not worked so Pat nice man as you are its time to go .
Kaimend you are commended for having the courage and conviction to put your neck on the Block on this site - well done and I too stand along side you on this very very serious topic

Speedway
23-08-2013, 09:27 AM
Look, right, I've supported Hibs for over 300 years now. I've been to every game home and away and others too. I have bought everything the club shop has ever sold and lost my house over it.

I personally funded the McGinlay and Wright signings and I also paid off Zarabi. I built EM single handedly and I used to volunteer on matchdays to be painted green and act as a bench under the old cowshed where I was regularly sat on by some of the fattest wasters going.

I bought every one of those silly little executive boxes that Duff and Gay built in the old main stand and paid companies to take them.

I also scored against Reims and Dukla Phumperston.

So no-one knows better than me that under current leadership, things will not change and if you go into the ground expecting to be beat, you won't boo, you won't get depressed, but draws and victories will taste a lot sweeter.

If that doesn't float your boat, either don't be surprised when things go wrong or just don't go.

Whatever you choose to do, it doesn't matter and 50 years from now, no-one will remember nor care about your attendance or non-attendance anyway.

PeterboroHibee
23-08-2013, 09:36 AM
I have no time for anybody calling themselves a hibs fan but said they r ready to 'call it a day' couldn't care if uv had a season ticket for the last 40 years that attitude does my heed in I know a cupl younger players in the squad and YES the talk is between players how they at times hate playing at ER as they know any mistake and there likely to be pounced on, say what u want about me couldn't give a ****, things will improve but players must be allowed freedom to express themselves without negativity from the stands 3 games into a 38 game season

Boo bloody hoo. Maybe if they didnt embarrass the club on a regular basis with stinking performances and ridiculous scorelines the fans would be more tolerant of them. When I lived in Scotland I followed Hibs all over the place, as will a lot of fans, which can be expensive. I remember driving through to Perth a few seasons ago - when you include petrol and tickets, and you buy food/drinks when you are there, it can be a reasonably pricey day out - to watch us then get smashed 5-1. I travelled up from England to see us play Malmo, again expensive, and we lose 7-0... If the rest of us screw up regularly in our jobs (on a lot less money may I add), we get sacked, yet they are getting upset over a little bit of criticism from the fans?

For what its worth, I disagree with abuse when it gets personal, and I dont like seeing players targeted every week when they arent to blame. However the team as a whole are under-performing, the football is dreadful, and they need to take responsibility for it. Blaming the fans is too easy in my opinion.

Killiehibbie
23-08-2013, 09:56 AM
I've watched a game and a half this season and won't be back for a while.

Hibernia&Alba
23-08-2013, 10:07 AM
I agree we shouldn't slate them. They are now irrelevant when it comes to Hibs and deserve no recognition whatsoever.

These martyrs will no doubt grudgingly come back to any game of significance that we reach and will find some cock and bull to justify their attendance if Pat and Rod are still there.

That's totally unnecessary. If the OP can't express his concerns about Hibs on a Hibs fans' forum, where can he? He stated he supports the team as much as he can during the match, and wants to discuss his thoughts with fellow fans. This is the place to do that. Nobody should have to censor themselves, thereby saying something they don't believe. It stands to reason that when the team isn't performing there will be a greater number of critical threads. I also don't accept that those who are perceived as 'negative' just now are irrelevant to Hibs. On the contrary, fans like the OP are the lifeblood of the club and their disillusionment shouldn't be ignored. Any club that loses it's bedrock fans has had it. We must be the most patient fans anywhere when it comes to underachievement, but it seems even the most loyal have had enough, something we ignore at our peril.