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hibsbollah
17-08-2013, 05:05 PM
A much improved second half after a first half that was maybe the lowest of the low so far. I'd forgotten how good it felt to celebrate a goal as well:greengrin



Williams 8 great one on one save, near perfect distribution and some great catches. Wasn't all that busy but did it all well.

Mullen 3 was getting torn to pieces before going off. No pace, no defensive nous.
Hanlon 6
Nelson 6 looked exposed for the goal but otherwise decent
Stevenson 7 what a shift. Did well at left back, before switching to right back and showed up the management geniuses to either side of me by being even better that side. Was clearly frustrated with Vine's contribution. Shattered by the end.


Robertson 6 Great strike, but I thought he was a bit quiet otherwise, especially first half.
Handling 8 best I've seen him play. Nice to see a Hibs player drop a shoulder and beat a man. Twice. MOTM.
Thomson 6 Was his usual solid self until the red card.
Craig 5 A truly awful first half, Keenan or Degraaf-like. Improved and had a decent shot second half but so far has disappointed me.
Vine 3 Really poor. How he lasted to 75 mins is a mystery. Confidence must be shattered after the abuse.

Collins 7 nice shot on goal first half, but had no help from Vine and it's hard to judge how good he can be with a decent partner. Was dropping to the centre circle second half to try and see some of the ball.


Subs
McGivern: we need him every week.
Stanton: 6 Some good running and shot on goal
Taiwo fine

Mark79
17-08-2013, 05:10 PM
Wasnt there but I take it pat can only make the same substitutions each week?

Up The Bracket
17-08-2013, 05:13 PM
Williams - 7 - A couple of great saves, couldn't have done anything for the goal

Mullen - 3 - Scared to tackle, okay going forward, but he doesn't look like a defender

Hanlon - 9 - Man of the match, never put a foot wrong, outstanding

Nelson - 6 - Solid at the back but gave the ball away alot

Stevenson - 8 - Gary Mackay-Steven in his back pocket again, he's my pick for the RB berth

Robertson - 7 - Scored, provided alot going forward, knew he'd come good

Thomson - 6 - Was coming onto a game in the second half before the incident

Craig - 6 - Awful first half, was better in the second, finally seemed like the player that was at St Johnstone last season

Handling - 7.5 - Got better as the game went on, he hasn't impress me much recently, but he was very good today

Vine - 4 - Awful.

Collins - 6 - Looks like a great player, it frustrates me that the lack of service forces him to come deep for the ball

SUBS

McGivern - 5 - Provided a decent outlet down the left but he was often very wasteful

Stanton - 4 - Few very decent touches, unlucky not to score

Taiwo - No time

hibee_girl
17-08-2013, 05:17 PM
Williams 7 - made an excellent save to stop a certain goal

Mullen 2 - made too many simple mistakes
Hanlon 7 - solid
Nelson 6 - ball for their goal over the top of him again but he did play well, even looked pacey at some points :greengrin
Stevenson 8 - our best defender, he was brilliant today

Handling 8 - always chasing, looking to create chances etc, between him and Stevenson for MOM
Thomson 6 - was alright, the fight was the most exciting thing he did
Robertson 6 - took his goal well
Craig 6 - played better once Thomson was red carded and he went into the middle

Collins 6 - hard to judge him when he has next to no support but he does look promising
Vine 2 - never in the the game.

Subs:

McGivern 6 - did well, needs to work on his crosses though
Stanton 4 - got stuck in and pushed us forward
Taiwo 4 - did well in the time he was on.

Brightside
17-08-2013, 05:19 PM
Williams 7 Couple of nice stops. Didnt talk to his defence enough and i really wish he would stop punting up every by kick we have.

Mullen 2 Very poor. I know he is a young lad simply not ready for this level.
Hanlon 9 Never put a foot wrong the whole game. Our best defender yet again.
Nelson 6 No idea what was going on with the goal and his passing was very poor.
Stevenson 8 Brilliant. Worked his socks off and hopefully shut up the doubters.


Robertson 6 Good goal. But still not strong enough on the ball for me. We need to start running at players.
Handling 7 Great 2nd half and really had a go at them. 1st half was really odd as i couldnt figure out where he was supposed to be playing.
Thomson 6 RED was always coming. He's a class player but he must kerb the anger.
Craig 5 Again played out of position with shots at right wing, left wing and only came onto a game once moved to the middle.
Vine 2 Unfit. Unwilling. and needs a flipping shave. Should have been replaced by Caldwell after half time.

Collins 6 Did very little but did show effort at least. Needs someone to link with - he wont get that from Vine.


Subs
McGivern: 6 Solid. But crossing does let him down.
Stanton: 6 Needs a start soon. Looks to have quality but needs more game time.
Taiwo 4 : Not long to impress and the sub that no one would want to see if we are trying to win a game.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
17-08-2013, 05:23 PM
Williams - 7 - A couple of great saves, couldn't have done anything for the goal

Mullen - 3 - Scared to tackle, okay going forward, but he doesn't look like a defender

Hanlon - 9 - Man of the match, never put a foot wrong, outstanding

Nelson - 6 - Solid at the back but gave the ball away alot

Stevenson - 8 - Gary Mackay-Steven in his back pocket again, he's my pick for the RB berth

Robertson - 7 - Scored, provided alot going forward, knew he'd come good

Thomson - 6 - Was coming onto a game in the second half before the incident

Craig - 6 - Awful first half, was better in the second, finally seemed like the player that was at St Johnstone last season

Handling - 7.5 - Got better as the game went on, he hasn't impress me much recently, but he was very good today

Vine - 4 - Awful.

Collins - 6 - Looks like a great player, it frustrates me that the lack of service forces him to come deep for the ball

SUBS

McGivern - 5 - Provided a decent outlet down the left but he was often very wasteful

Stanton - 4 - Few very decent touches, unlucky not to score

Taiwo - No time

Vine was terrible I agree.

GreenCastle
17-08-2013, 05:25 PM
Agree with most of 1st post - Williams 1v1 save was very important.

Mullen - early yellow didn't help against probably one of the best wingers in the league.

Stevenson did extremely well when he went to the right - basically just did his job.

Thomson - shouldn't have been red carded - Utd player went straight through him and high - Did see Thomson do anything except react as in "what the hell you doing?!".

Thomson is our best passer and gets a lot of the ball but I think he slows it down sometimes allowing other teams to get organised and even though he wants it all the time - We saw Craig and others play better once he went off.

Craig - looked more like the Craig we signed from St J after the red card - he was terrible 1st half and line up doesn't seem to suit him.

Vine - what's his best position - what did he actually do right today ? Really struggled and no link up with Collins.

Collins - needs a goal and wish he would hold the ball up better but didn't get much service.

Robertson - took goal well - good reaction when he scored.

McGivern needs to play every week - still think he's a better CB than left back.

Nelson and Hanlon seem to be forming an ok partnership - would rather they get on the ball from the back more often. But worryingly another simple goal lost.

Handling - worked so hard and really got into more 2nd half - hopefully more to come.

Subs...Robertson was knackered - cramping again...so Taiwo on...

Mullen...hooked early due to yellow and being skinned too often...

Stanton...came on..and a few mins later we scored but surely Caldwell for Vine would have made more sense? What does Caldwell have to do to get a game?

Fenlon...we looked like the away team 1st half. Took us 40 mins to test the United keeper. Can only really think of a few shots on goal...and lack of width really affects us. He stays another week now..but still no win...I think RP and board are trying to get him through to xmas - less to pay off.

Matt92
17-08-2013, 05:29 PM
Williams- 7: great save 2nd half to keep us in it.

Mullen- 3: poor boy, torn a new one by GMS and his confidence looks shot already.
Hanlon- 7: made some great challenges today, solid.
Nelson- 7: big man did well, he is no footballer but a solid defender with some great last-ditch stuff.
Stevenson- 9: that's more like it lewis! he was brilliant today, kept GMS and Erskine in his backpocket all day.

Craig- 6: tried driving forward and played a couple of killer passes but with too much weight.
Robertson- 6: took his goal well, was frustrating upto that point.
Thomson- 6: sending off was a joke, was good until then.

Handling- 9: best game in a hibs top, he drove forward and chased all day. I never rated him before but today he showed he has something: Motm.
Collins- 5: holds the ball up well but does not get the service, but seems a bit hesitant whenever he gets a break.
Vine- 4: pretty lazy.

McGivern- 6: he is good. Has to start from now on.
Stanton- 5: was good for the last bit he was on.
Taiwo- 4: quite late on to come on.

FromTheCapital
17-08-2013, 05:34 PM
Going to base my ratings on the second half performance:

Williams (7): Made some good saves. Nothing he could do for the goal. Excellent distribution.

Mullen (4): Poor. Must be down to pressure as I heard a lot of good things about him at them.
Hanlon (7): Done well. Hardly put a foot wrong. Much stronger in the challenges today.
Nelson (7): Solid. Undoubtedly a very good defender! Poor passing at times but very good overall.
Stevenson (7.5): Not his biggest fan but was excellent today, even when switched to RB.

Handling (8): Best player on the park for me. Ran out of praises for him during the game. MOTM.
Thomson (6): Typical Thomson display. Fought for every ball and showed real passion. Made up for his past mistakes and it's a shame that it took his sending off to lift the team!
Robertson (7): Took his goal brilliantly. Nice to see a goal scoring midfielder.
Craig (5): Improved towards the end of the game but overall was unimpressive.

Vine (4): Boo boys getting on his back. Done some things well at times but his confidence was completely shattered by 60 minutes unfortuantely...
Collins (6): Worked his arse off up front. Needs to be a bit more interested but done okay.

SUBS:

McGivern (6): Always an outlet on the left. Looked to get forward whenever possible.
Stanton (5): Got at the full backs. Unlucky not to score with a decent effort.
Taiwo (No Time)

First half was woeful. Much improved in the second which makes we wonder why we can't play like that for two halves on a consistent basis?

:rolleyes:

frazeHFC
17-08-2013, 05:43 PM
Williams - 7

Mullen - 5
Nelson - 6
Hanlon - 6
Stevenson - 6

Handling - 7
Robertson - 6
Thomson - 6
Craig - 4

Collins - 6
Vine - 2



Subs: McGivern 6, Stanton 6, Taiwo 5 (no time)

gegs70
17-08-2013, 05:48 PM
Williams - 7 - A couple of great saves, couldn't have done anything for the goal

Mullen - 3 - Scared to tackle, okay going forward, but he doesn't look like a defender

Hanlon - 9 - Man of the match, never put a foot wrong, outstanding

Nelson - 6 - Solid at the back but gave the ball away alot

Stevenson - 8 - Gary Mackay-Steven in his back pocket again, he's my pick for the RB berth

Robertson - 7 - Scored, provided alot going forward, knew he'd come good

Thomson - 6 - Was coming onto a game in the second half before the incident

Craig - 6 - Awful first half, was better in the second, finally seemed like the player that was at St Johnstone last season

Handling - 7.5 - Got better as the game went on, he hasn't impress me much recently, but he was very good today

Vine - 4 - Awful.

Collins - 6 - Looks like a great player, it frustrates me that the lack of service forces him to come deep for the ball

SUBS

McGivern - 5 - Provided a decent outlet down the left but he was often very wasteful

Stanton - 4 - Few very decent touches, unlucky not to score

Taiwo - No time

Mullen got booked in the 9th minute, aftwr that didnt put challenge in at all!

gegs70
17-08-2013, 05:51 PM
Williams 7 Couple of nice stops. Didnt talk to his defence enough and i really wish he would stop punting up every by kick we have.

Mullen 2 Very poor. I know he is a young lad simply not ready for this level.
Hanlon 9 Never put a foot wrong the whole game. Our best defender yet again.
Nelson 6 No idea what was going on with the goal and his passing was very poor.
Stevenson 8 Brilliant. Worked his socks off and hopefully shut up the doubters.


Robertson 6 Good goal. But still not strong enough on the ball for me. We need to start running at players.
Handling 7 Great 2nd half and really had a go at them. 1st half was really odd as i couldnt figure out where he was supposed to be playing.
Thomson 6 RED was always coming. He's a class player but he must kerb the anger.
Craig 5 Again played out of position with shots at right wing, left wing and only came onto a game once moved to the middle.
Vine 2 Unfit. Unwilling. and needs a flipping shave. Should have been replaced by Caldwell after half time.

Collins 6 Did very little but did show effort at least. Needs someone to link with - he wont get that from Vine.


Subs
McGivern: 6 Solid. But crossing does let him down.
Stanton: 6 Needs a start soon. Looks to have quality but needs more game time.
Taiwo 4 : Not long to impress and the sub that no one would want to see if we are trying to win a game.

Oddly I think the fight was the best thing for hibs it seemed to give the team a little fight had the game stayed thd same the score may not have changed?!

HFC 0-7
17-08-2013, 05:57 PM
Oddly I think the fight was the best thing for hibs it seemed to give the team a little fight had the game stayed thd same the score may not have changed?!

This, those 2 red cards opened up the game a bit, we seemed to find more space on the park.

danhibees1875
17-08-2013, 06:00 PM
Oddly I think the fight was the best thing for hibs it seemed to give the team a little fight had the game stayed thd same the score may not have changed?!

Perhaps we should do this every week? Would also solve our problem of having too many CM's if a few of them are always suspended. :greengrin

gegs70
17-08-2013, 06:06 PM
This, those 2 red cards opened up the game a bit, we seemed to find more space on the park.

Perhaps fenlon should change to a 4-4-2 instead of blaming players?

Alex Trager
17-08-2013, 06:08 PM
I think RV is not a player who has a brain. There were points when he was looking like a left back, last man at the back. He roams the filed of play at his own discretion doing whatever he wants- usually nothing -and going wherever he wants. Think he grew a beard so everyone watching him still knows he is on the park

Bobby's Cinema
17-08-2013, 06:16 PM
A much improved second half after a first half that was maybe the lowest of the low so far. I'd forgotten how good it felt to celebrate a goal as well:greengrin



Williams 8 great one on one save, near perfect distribution and some great catches. Wasn't all that busy but did it all well.

Mullen 3 was getting torn to pieces before going off. No pace, no defensive nous.
Hanlon 6
Nelson 6 looked exposed for the goal but otherwise decent
Stevenson 7 what a shift. Did well at left back, before switching to right back and showed up the management geniuses to either side of me by being even better that side. Was clearly frustrated with Vine's contribution. Shattered by the end.


Robertson 6 Great strike, but I thought he was a bit quiet otherwise, especially first half.
Handling 8 best I've seen him play. Nice to see a Hibs player drop a shoulder and beat a man. Twice. MOTM.
Thomson 6 Was his usual solid self until the red card.
Craig 5 A truly awful first half, Keenan or Degraaf-like. Improved and had a decent shot second half but so far has disappointed me.
Vine 3 Really poor. How he lasted to 75 mins is a mystery. Confidence must be shattered after the abuse.

Collins 7 nice shot on goal first half, but had no help from Vine and it's hard to judge how good he can be with a decent partner. Was dropping to the centre circle second half to try and see some of the ball.


Subs
McGivern: we need him every week.
Stanton: 6 Some good running and shot on goal
Taiwo fine
Agree with all of that other than I think Hanlon was better than a six and Collins poorer than a 7

Greenblood70
17-08-2013, 06:46 PM
A much improved second half after a first half that was maybe the lowest of the low so far. I'd forgotten how good it felt to celebrate a goal as well:greengrin



Williams 8 great one on one save, near perfect distribution and some great catches. Wasn't all that busy but did it all well.

Mullen 3 was getting torn to pieces before going off. No pace, no defensive nous.
Hanlon 6
Nelson 6 looked exposed for the goal but otherwise decent
Stevenson 7 what a shift. Did well at left back, before switching to right back and showed up the management geniuses to either side of me by being even better that side. Was clearly frustrated with Vine's contribution. Shattered by the end.


Robertson 6 Great strike, but I thought he was a bit quiet otherwise, especially first half.
Handling 8 best I've seen him play. Nice to see a Hibs player drop a shoulder and beat a man. Twice. MOTM.
Thomson 6 Was his usual solid self until the red card.
Craig 5 A truly awful first half, Keenan or Degraaf-like. Improved and had a decent shot second half but so far has disappointed me.
Vine 3 Really poor. How he lasted to 75 mins is a mystery. Confidence must be shattered after the abuse.

Collins 7 nice shot on goal first half, but had no help from Vine and it's hard to judge how good he can be with a decent partner. Was dropping to the centre circle second half to try and see some of the ball.


Subs
McGivern: we need him every week.
Stanton: 6 Some good running and shot on goal
Taiwo fine

Fair summation. Mullen would be lucky to get a 1 from me. Not seen anything in this lad so far. Positionally caught out time and again, slow and dived in stupidly. He shouldn't have been playing in the first place tho and only Fenlon can answer why he did against probably the most skillful wide player in the league.

Brightside
17-08-2013, 07:13 PM
Perhaps fenlon should change to a 4-4-2 instead of blaming players?

Im sure he actually started with a 433 today which became a 442 as Handling had to pull back to cover the right wing. I wish he'd stop moving players around tho during the game. Its doesnt confuse the oppo it only confuses our own players.

Twiglet
17-08-2013, 07:32 PM
Oddly I think the fight was the best thing for hibs it seemed to give the team a little fight had the game stayed thd same the score may not have changed?!

Totally agree. We need the players to take that fight (not literal) and fire and take it into every game from minute one.

Thought Handling was much better today. First touch was very good which was the thing I was not overly impressed with in pre-season/first few matches. Worked hard throughout and it doing well to make himself a serious contender for being up there on team sheet as one of the first. Long may his progress continue.

West hamBERNIAN
17-08-2013, 07:38 PM
A much improved second half after a first half that was maybe the lowest of the low so far. I'd forgotten how good it felt to celebrate a goal as well:greengrin



Williams 8 great one on one save, near perfect distribution and some great catches. Wasn't all that busy but did it all well.

Mullen 3 was getting torn to pieces before going off. No pace, no defensive nous.
Hanlon 6
Nelson 6 looked exposed for the goal but otherwise decent
Stevenson 7 what a shift. Did well at left back, before switching to right back and showed up the management geniuses to either side of me by being even better that side. Was clearly frustrated with Vine's contribution. Shattered by the end.



Robertson 6 Great strike, but I thought he was a bit quiet otherwise, especially first half.
Handling 8 best I've seen him play. Nice to see a Hibs player drop a shoulder and beat a man. Twice. MOTM.
Thomson 6 Was his usual solid self until the red card.
Craig 5 A truly awful first half, Keenan or Degraaf-like. Improved and had a decent shot second half but so far has disappointed me.
Vine 3 Really poor. How he lasted to 75 mins is a mystery. Confidence must be shattered after the abuse.

Collins 7 nice shot on goal first half, but had no help from Vine and it's hard to judge how good he can be with a decent partner. Was dropping to the centre circle second half to try and see some of the ball.


Subs
McGivern: we need him every week.
Stanton: 6 Some good running and shot on goal
Taiwo fine

don't often agree with many ppl on these but that couldn't have been closer to my opinion. have you given up on fenlon after today? can a couple of good intelligent wingers turn it around?

Hibby 2005
17-08-2013, 07:48 PM
don't often agree with many ppl on these but that couldn't have been closer to my opinion. have you given up on fenlon after today? can a couple of good intelligent wingers turn it around?

I gave up on Fenlon a while ago and more wingers won't change a damn thing as Fenlon won't know how to use them.

Leighonel
17-08-2013, 08:06 PM
The ratings are a bit generous but I get the point behind them. I am assuming the ratings are based on the performance after thomson went off? That seemed to wake the players up. Even after the reds we still were not good enough and there is plenty of room for improvement.

My final point on the team performance is that the team look like they have no confidence, the players very rarely tried difficult passes, maybe handling was the exception to that.

Ricky Bobby
17-08-2013, 09:24 PM
Williams 7 Solid display, distribution excellent, no chance with goal.
Mullen 3 Poor positional sense and lack of pace allowed Mackay-Steven to cause problems. Poor challenge for booking.
Hanlon 6 Steady enough at the back but passing,especially long passing, very poor.
Nelson 7 Decent performance, lack of pace causes problems.
Stevenson 7 Decent first half, showed for the ball throughout the game, Dominated Mackay-Steven in the second half.
Thomson 5 Playing well until the sending off, stupid to get involved, might cost us in games to come.
Craig 6 Struggled to make an impression on the game until Thomson was sent off, much more effective when he plays through the middle.
Robertson 7 Great energy throughout and well taken goal, great attitude.
Handling 7 Very good display, always looked to get on the ball and make something happen. great work rate.
Vine 5 Effort was there but poor first touch and distribution.
Collins 7 Looked to get involved throughout, but had to drop deep to see the ball, very good hold up play.

McGivern 6 Steady performance but needs to improve final ball into the box.
Stanton 5 Looked lively and caused United a few problems
Taiwo 5 Not enough time to make an impact.

Good second half performance but we can't afford to give teams a goal start. Need to start games with more purpose.

KingFranck
17-08-2013, 09:43 PM
Williams - 7

Mullen - 5
Nelson - 6
Hanlon - 6
Stevenson - 6

Handling - 7
Robertson - 6
Thomson - 6
Craig - 4

Collins - 6
Vine - 2



Subs: McGivern 6, Stanton 6, Taiwo 5 (no time)
Have to disagree with your rating for Stevenson mate he fitted in perfectly are RB and had McKay Steven in his pocket motm along with Handling both would get an 8 from me

frazeHFC
17-08-2013, 09:49 PM
Have to disagree with your rating for Stevenson mate he fitted in perfectly are RB and had McKay Steven in his pocket motm along with Handling both would get an 8 from me

Fair point. Thought Stevenson did have a good game today. One thing he lacked for me though was his crossing. Few good opportunities went to waste. Played well overall.

WellingtonHibby
17-08-2013, 10:10 PM
Fair point. Thought Stevenson did have a good game today. One thing he lacked for me though was his crossing. Few good opportunities went to waste. Played well overall.


Anything else you'd like him to do? He didn't save any penalities either or score goals and was pretty slow getting the halftime pies out. Jesus. Give the guy a break

frazeHFC
17-08-2013, 10:13 PM
Anything else you'd like him to do? He didn't save any penalities either or score goals and was pretty slow getting the halftime pies out. Jesus. Give the guy a break


I said he played well, not giving him a hard time at all.

gegs70
17-08-2013, 10:46 PM
Our distribution was terrible and there seemed to be a lack of movemnt. When we had the ball we would move it side to side then back, dundee utd seemed to push forward at pace and movement off the ball was much better....when we list Thomson ut seemed to free things up and we looked a lot better we must revert to a 4-4-2 the 4-5-1 scenario aint working!

I thought handling, srvenson were good today but also thought that any chance of scoring would come from robertson....collins kept on drifting wide to receive the ball maybe we need another striker and a winger?

GreenOnions
18-08-2013, 09:34 AM
That was possibly the poorest game of football I've ever witnessed. Thank goodness DUFC look just as poor as us. Two teams destined (on current form anyway) for bottom six at best. The passing in particular was absolutely embarassing from both teams. It really looked like 22 guys who'd only just been introduced to the game. Clearly - all the players on view are much better than they performed but no-one seemed to have any confidence at all.

In the first half the only players on the pitch (excluding goalies) who even appeared like professional footballers were Kevin Thomson and Mackay-Steven. Thomson shouldn't have got involved with that huddie Gunning after that awful challenge but it must be frustrating for him. With the pre-season under his belt he's now looking what he is - several classes above his team-mates.

Two additional points: Much as I appreciate Nelson's ability to get his head on the ball I feel he is nowhere near good enough for Hibs. I am extremely surprised at the high marks he's received above. He is without doubt one of the slowest players I've ever seen in a Hibs shirt. Motherwell targetted this and I don't think they'll be the last to do so. We've also now lost two goals from long balls over the area between him and Mullen. The most depressing thing about him in the team though is his distribution. Almost always a long punt up the park to an opponent.

Secondly - for the second week running Pat put on Taiwo for Robertson. I actually think Taiwo did quite well in the short time he was on but FFS - both this week and last I cannot believe we did not take the opportunity to add an attacking player at that stage in the game rather than a defensive midfielder. Despite the lack of quality in our own play we were increasingly dominating a poor DUFC team who were retreating more and more. We had the opportunity to go and win the game and I cannot fathom Pat's decision-making. He was, it appears, settling for a draw :-/

My marks:

Williams - 7

Mullen - 2
Nelson - 3
Hanlon - 7
Stevenson - 6
(McGivern - 6)

Handling - 5
Robertson - 6
Thomson - 8
Craig - 3

Collins - 4
Vine - 2

Bobby's Cinema
18-08-2013, 09:38 AM
Anything else you'd like him to do? He didn't save any penalities either or score goals and was pretty slow getting the halftime pies out. Jesus. Give the guy a break

Relax. Lewis been roundly praised for yesterday. It is true though that he lacks quality when he gets up the park, his delivery is awful