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View Full Version : Caldwell and Handling up front? (merged)



Unseen work
10-07-2013, 07:14 PM
Wondering who everyone thinks will score more goals this season?

Can see them being the type to have a bet like oconner and riordan did as they seem very good pals. Personally I think Danny will edge it as think theirs more to his game.

Ross seems to of started very well and looks naturally suited to spl cause of his strength. Thing that I like about him is when one of the youth coaches described him as a "perfectionist" and he's not happy until he's scored even if he's played well and confidence doesn't effect him.

Danny on the other hand seems a more intelligent player who finds himself in pockets of space which leads to chances. Although may take him a while longer to settle cause of his build but I think his football brain makes up for it.

Iv been very impressed with the youngsters though to me they all seem to have a certain swagger about them and don't seem to phased. Also liked the look of the link up between Danny Ross and Alex

Exciting times! :D

Scouse Hibee
10-07-2013, 07:15 PM
Wondering who everyone thinks will score more goals this season?

Can see them being the type to have a bet like oconner and riordan did as they seem very good pals. Personally I think Danny will edge it as think theirs more to his game.

Ross seems to of started very well and looks naturally suited to spl cause of his strength. Thing that I like about him is when one of the youth coaches described him as a "perfectionist" and he's not happy until he's scored even if he's played well and confidence doesn't effect him.

Danny on the other hand seems a more intelligent player who finds himself in pockets of space which leads to chances. Although may take him a while longer to settle cause of his build but I think his football brain makes up for it.

Iv been very impressed with the youngsters though to me they all seem to have a certain swagger about them and don't seem to phased. Also liked the look of the link up between Danny Ross and Alex

Exciting times! :D

Caldwell.

R'Albin
10-07-2013, 07:17 PM
No offence to Danny, but if he avoids injury then Caldwell will by a pretty big margin IMO.

Pretty Boy
10-07-2013, 07:31 PM
Caldwell.

I'm quite excited about him, he looks cool and calm in front of goal, puts a shift in and is a big, strong guy.

Handling still has a lot of work to do imo.

HibeeBigFly
10-07-2013, 07:36 PM
Handling for me :not worth

Impressed by Caldwell too tho.

fitba folk ken fit the score is!

West hamBERNIAN
10-07-2013, 07:44 PM
Hard to say ATM, Danny has been getting in some good positions. If he improves his composure he could hit double figures. To be fair sparky lacked a little composure when he was first here I thought. I'll say Caldwell.

Leighonel
10-07-2013, 07:59 PM
If they play upfornt together then probably danny, but if they play with another partner then probably caldwell.

sbell1875
10-07-2013, 08:34 PM
I seem to recall Danny not playing up front too often. Caldwell looks more suited to an out and out striker role so I'd say he'd get more goals based on that. As much as I think both are good prospects we really need 1 or 2 more experienced heads in their even to help their development if anything else.

500miles
10-07-2013, 08:35 PM
Caldwell will have a bigger impact this season because his physique will get him through against the huddies and thugs.

Danny appears to have the basic tools to be the better player, but will need learn to take the game by the scruff of the neck and not be bullied.

Dunderhall
10-07-2013, 08:37 PM
Caldwell for me, think he'll get more game time plus a bit more advanced as a player.

VivaHiberņa
10-07-2013, 09:26 PM
Maybe an unfair comparison, as Caldwell seems to be more of a proper centre-forward whereas Handling has played in midfield. So I suppose my answer has to be Caldwell. Hopefully they can make it as Scotland's 2nd best group of youngsters, along with some less-seen faces like Stanton, Donaldson etc who should be playing a bit more next season.




fitba folk ken fit the score is!

LTSF

Sean1875
10-07-2013, 09:54 PM
Reckon Caldwell will shade it, but really is a hugely exciting time for our club again, can see both players having a big impace in our future along with the rest of the youth in the set up. The futures bright :thumbsup:

BOB MARLEYS DUG
10-07-2013, 09:59 PM
Caldwell imo. I do like Handling though!

andrew70
10-07-2013, 10:03 PM
Handling for me. A goal early on in the season will do wonders for his confidence. His finishing ability is up there with the best I've seen at such a young age. He needs that wee bit more confidence to have a dig now he's in the first team though. But that will come.

GGTTH07
10-07-2013, 10:26 PM
Caldwell. Handling hasn't impressed so far IMO. Looks great at Under 20s so here's hoping he can step it up!

Speedy
10-07-2013, 11:14 PM
Caldwell will have a bigger impact this season because his physique will get him through against the huddies and thugs.

Danny appears to have the basic tools to be the better player, but will need learn to take the game by the scruff of the neck and not be bullied.

Good summary.

SaulGoodman
10-07-2013, 11:57 PM
Funnily enough with their build and Characteristics; Danny and Ross remind me a lot of Riordan and O'Connor!

dmc1875
11-07-2013, 02:47 AM
Funnily enough with their build and Characteristics; Danny and Ross remind me a lot of Riordan and O'Connor!

Caldwell by some margin IMO. Looks much more like a striker to me and has the confidence and technique. Not too sure what to make of Handling yet, he doesnt seem to strike the ball well and his finishing was a bit wayward the times I have seen him. He gets into good positions though and seems an intelligent player with the ball to feet maybe he is more a midfielder :confused:

I don't really see the O'Connor/Riordan thing. caldwell and O'Connor I get, but Handling and Riordan look vastly different players.

DH1875
11-07-2013, 11:06 AM
Caldwell, NO doubt about it :agree:.

Liams
11-07-2013, 11:27 AM
I can see this being a sorta benji zouma connection, maybe danny will assist more but ross has score two excellent goals at the end of the season.

Any one know there squad numbers? I see ross being a number 9 guy and danny a 10 (obv in future)

The Sea-gull
11-07-2013, 12:49 PM
Don't think either will get that many as got a feeling Fenlon will sign someone as his main man up front and then play a system of one up front with players such as Harris, Craig and Robertson supporting. He might even sign two strikers which could see Handling and Caldwell slip further down the pecking order.

Big season for them both. How old are they? 19? By this age Fletcher and O'Connor had well and truly broken through. Riordan was just about to hit the heights. We haven't seen enough of either to suggest how far they will or won't go in the game, maybe be able to judge it better this time next year.

To answer the question, who will score more goals, all relative really to who get more opportunity but that notwithstanding, I would go for Caldwell. I just get a feeling that he has more of a killer instinct. Handling looks like he could be a exciting but frustrating player to watch and seems more tricky and mobile but out of the two Caldwell looks like he could be the more natural scorer.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
26-07-2013, 08:11 PM
Just wanted peoples opinions on whether or not you think Handling and Caldwell are ready yet? I'm not starting this thread to try and a have a go/basing it on what I saw last night because that wouldn't be fair. So, does anyone think they are ready? :greengrin

bingo70
26-07-2013, 08:13 PM
I think handling is a million miles away from being ready, he works hard enough but I can't renember ever seeing a forward offer such little threat, looks miles out his depth imo.

PeterboroHibee
26-07-2013, 08:14 PM
I dont think Handling is ready, but picked because he is considered to be more versatile; Fenlon seems to see him as someone who can play as a front two or out wide depending on how the game is.

Caldwell seems to look like more of a first team player imo, but still very raw. Hes someone I wouldnt mind coming off the bench more this season, and starting a few games here and there.

BOB MARLEYS DUG
26-07-2013, 08:17 PM
I dont think Handling is ready, but picked because he is considered to be more versatile; Fenlon seems to see him as someone who can play as a front two or out wide depending on how the game is.

Caldwell seems to look like more of a first team player imo, but still very raw. Hes someone I wouldnt mind coming off the bench more this season, and starting a few games here and there.

:agree:

coco22
26-07-2013, 08:24 PM
I still think handling is a bit lightweight and can be muscled off the ball (saying that he put in the only meaty challenge I can remember last night) therefore not posing much of a threat at the moment.

caldwell has good potential IMO. He finishes well, shows strength and has shown loads of enthusiasm when getting a chance. Been mentioned on another thread previously but he would do well playing alongside a Brewster type strike partner and learning his trade (did GOC a world of good as a player).

potential in both but need to be playing in a confident team with a supportive atmosphere which isnae us at the moment unfortunately.

Unseen work
26-07-2013, 08:26 PM
Both are ready imo. Handling is a good finisher not shown it as much yet but if you watch youth and when he was on loan he was very good. He's more of a intelligent player who works little 1-2s in and around the area. Last night he showed his intelligence alot IMO in and around their area, their was a point in first half it was very congested and pinged a cracking pass to Mullen who then whipped in the cross.

Caldwell is a bull dozer type foward who will go through anything or one and scored some good goals last season. They play best IMO when their with each other as they know what they will be doing. That understanding will take time to develop with new players such as vine and Craig

Alot of people are forgetting them 2 and Harris were our bright spark at end of season and it's difficult enough for guys like vine whose 30? Playing in a game like that last night never mind 19 year olds who alot of the support don't seem to have faith in. Theirs plenty of time yet and everytime I see them play their the ones trying to make something happen and don't look out of place imo

BOB MARLEYS DUG
26-07-2013, 08:31 PM
Both are ready imo. Handling is a good finisher not shown it as much yet but if you watch youth and when he was on loan he was very good. He's more of a intelligent player who works little 1-2s in and around the area. Last night he showed his intelligence alot IMO in and around their area, their was a point in first half it was very congested and pinged a cracking pass to Mullen who then whipped in the cross.

Caldwell is a bull dozer type foward who will go through anything or one and scored some good goals last season. They play best IMO when their with each other as they know what they will be doing. That understanding will take time to develop with new players such as vine and Craig

Alot of people are forgetting them 2 and Harris were our bright spark at end of season and it's difficult enough for guys like vine whose 30? Playing in a game like that last night never mind 19 year olds who alot of the support don't seem to have faith in. Theirs plenty of time yet and everytime I see them play their the ones trying to make something happen and don't look out of place imo

:thumbsup:

PeterboroHibee
26-07-2013, 08:33 PM
I still think handling is a bit lightweight and can be muscled off the ball (saying that he put in the only meaty challenge I can remember last night) therefore not posing much of a threat at the moment.

caldwell has good potential IMO. He finishes well, shows strength and has shown loads of enthusiasm when getting a chance. Been mentioned on another thread previously but he would do well playing alongside a Brewster type strike partner and learning his trade (did GOC a world of good as a player).

potential in both but need to be playing in a confident team with a supportive atmosphere which isnae us at the moment unfortunately.

I think thats an important point. Neither seem to be the (albeit rare) sort of player that breaks through and regardless of age are instant 'superstars' (by that I mean the best player at the club, or the ability to carry a team etc), so they will need time and patience as they develop. Its not going to do either any good to be played out of position in a team that is on the end of hidings every other week.

hibs6270uk
26-07-2013, 08:38 PM
I dont think Handling is ready, but picked because he is considered to be more versatile; Fenlon seems to see him as someone who can play as a front two or out wide depending on how the game is.

Caldwell seems to look like more of a first team player imo, but still very raw. Hes someone I wouldnt mind coming off the bench more this season, and starting a few games here and there.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. My only concern is the effect the likes of last night can have on these young lads. Handling looked ready to burst into tears and slit his wrists at full time (I know most of us felt the same) and its nice to see he cares however it is unfair to expose such young and raw prospects to that and whilst i understand they have to learn that kind of performance and result can end up doing more damage than good.

I like Caldwell and I think he is probably closer to a first team player than some of the others but it is clear Fenlon sees him as no more than a bit part player otherwise he would have partnered Griffiths up front more often last season.

snooky
26-07-2013, 08:42 PM
Last night, when our backs were against the wall, IMO Handling did more work and played with more intelligence than the rest of them put together.
He deserves credit for that.

bingo70
26-07-2013, 08:46 PM
Last night, when our backs were against the wall, IMO Handling did more work and played with more intelligence than the rest of the entire team put together.
He deserves credit for that.

What did he do with this intelligence? He never created anything.

With all the good young players we've brought through you could tell instantly they were going to be good, handling won't be a good player for hibs, I'm certain of that, we need to find better quickly.

Unseen work
26-07-2013, 08:50 PM
What did he do with this intelligence? He never created anything.

With all the good young players we've brought through you could tell instantly they were going to be good, handling won't be a good player for hibs, I'm certain of that, we need to find better quickly.

Fletcher definitely never, he played alot of games centre mid at the start, even just before he left alot weren't convinced

bingo70
26-07-2013, 08:59 PM
Fletcher definitely never, he played alot of games centre mid at the start, even just before he left alot weren't convinced

Maybe I've just got a brilliant football mind then ;-). It was obvious when he broke through he'd be class, even though he was being played on the left, he always looked well ahead of his years.

Before he left he was having to drop too deep to get the ball but he was able to do it because he had a great touch, he'd also still manage to be a threat despite the fact he was always dropping so deep.

Handling controls the ball and passes it back, plays it safe every time and I'm sorry but that won't be enough to keep him in the team.

Dunderhall
26-07-2013, 09:04 PM
Caldwell is ahead of Handling in a place for the first team.
Neither ready to be a full time first team pick though.

If Fenlon remains and we hit a rocky patch, the support from the stands could be poor with the players getting stick.
need to be careful how we handle them being so inexperienced.
I do think they can break into the first team regular though given time.

eastterrace
26-07-2013, 09:09 PM
Maybe I've just got a brilliant football mind then ;-). It was obvious when he broke through he'd be class, even though he was being played on the left, he always looked well ahead of his years.

Before he left he was having to drop too deep to get the ball but he was able to do it because he had a great touch, he'd also still manage to be a threat despite the fact he was always dropping so deep.

Handling controls the ball and passes it back, plays it safe every time and I'm sorry but that won't be enough to keep him in the team.

totally agree handling gives plenty effort but he never takes a player on he just does the easy ball pass it back. maybe we have butch wilkins and barry ferguson box set down at east mains and the players watch it having there tea break.

Unseen work
26-07-2013, 09:13 PM
Maybe I've just got a brilliant football mind then ;-). It was obvious when he broke through he'd be class, even though he was being played on the left, he always looked well ahead of his years.

Before he left he was having to drop too deep to get the ball but he was able to do it because he had a great touch, he'd also still manage to be a threat despite the fact he was always dropping so deep.

Handling controls the ball and passes it back, plays it safe every time and I'm sorry but that won't be enough to keep him in the team.

I'm not saying I never seen it in fletcher but he had alotttttt of doubters all throughout. I think it's very unfair sayin danny only passes the ball back

bingo70
26-07-2013, 09:14 PM
I'm not saying I never seen it in fletcher but he had alotttttt of doubters all throughout. I think it's very unfair sayin danny only passes the ball back

Can you point me to any assists he's had? I can't think of any?

lucky
26-07-2013, 09:24 PM
Neither are ready. Handling runs about a lot but loses the ball constantly. Caldwell alway looks over awed when he plays but does have natural finishing ability. For me both should get the odd 10-15 mins in a few games every so often

BarneyK
26-07-2013, 09:33 PM
They need to be ready. They're at the age where they need to be pushing for the first team. Maybe not first picks but they need to be able to come on and affect the game positively. Going to be a big season for them.

Unseen work
26-07-2013, 09:34 PM
Can you point me to any assists he's had? I can't think of any?

Positive theirs been a couple, sure he got one against killie the week after the semi. Set a handful up for Doyle in one game again either killie or aberdeen after semi which he fluffed. Set up caldwells vs st Johnstone? When he bet a boy cut it back ad Caldwell curled it in. Positive it was at Johnstone

Largshibby
26-07-2013, 09:40 PM
Just wanted peoples opinions on whether or not you think Handling and Caldwell are ready yet? I'm not starting this thread to try and a have a go/basing it on what I saw last night because that wouldn't be fair. So, does anyone think they are ready? :greengrin

The Malmo manager referred to his team as being young and hungry and look what happened. When our young players are discussed it is about developing them gradually, having potential blah blah blah. 19/20 year old players are basically about a quarter of the way through their careers (outfield players anyway) so how much time do they need/get to arrive at the stage of making a big impact. Caldwell looks a better prospect than Handling based on his size (better suited to SPFL) and that goal versus them but we need him to be in the team and contributing 15+ goals right now.

bingo70
26-07-2013, 09:40 PM
Positive theirs been a couple, sure he got one against killie the week after the semi. Set a handful up for Doyle in one game again either killie or aberdeen after semi which he fluffed. Set up caldwells vs st Johnstone? When he bet a boy cut it back ad Caldwell curled it in. Positive it was at Johnstone

Fair do's I think you might be right about that game (was it not st mirren though?)

I still think every time he comes on or I see him starting games that he won't do anything and I'm nearly always right, in an attacking sense more often than not he's a waste of a jersey. ( I wasn't at the game you mentioned above :-))

Unseen work
26-07-2013, 09:43 PM
The Malmo manager referred to his team as being young and hungry and look what happened. When our young players are discussed it is about developing them gradually, having potential blah blah blah. 19/20 year old players are basically about a quarter of the way through their careers (outfield players anyway) so how much time do they need/get to arrive at the stage of making a big impact. Caldwell looks a better prospect than Handling based on his size (better suited to SPFL) and that goal versus them but we need him to be in the team and contributing 15+ goals right now.

A quarter of their way at 19?? What age do you think they make their debuts? Based on that Caldwell made his first appearance at 19? So should retire by 23?

Unseen work
26-07-2013, 09:44 PM
Fair do's I think you might be right about that game (was it not st mirren though?)

I still think every time he comes on or I see him starting games that he won't do anything and I'm nearly always right, in an attacking sense more often than not he's a waste of a jersey. ( I wasn't at the game you mentioned above :-))

Just double checked was deff st Johnstone. Firmly beleive he will be good, well tbf I already think he is playing good

Paisley Hibby
26-07-2013, 09:52 PM
Neither are ready. Handling runs about a lot but loses the ball constantly. Caldwell alway looks over awed when he plays but does have natural finishing ability. For me both should get the odd 10-15 mins in a few games every so often

Spot on. Problem is our so called manager has yet again failed to recruit the experienced quality players we need that would allow Handling and Caldwell to be played that way.

Largshibby
26-07-2013, 09:57 PM
A quarter of their way at 19?? What age do you think they make their debuts? Based on that Caldwell made his first appearance at 19? So should retire by 23?

A players career doesn't start when he makes his debut in the first team. I would imagine Caldwell has been playing football since he was a nipper and professionally for a few years now. OK I'm maybe stretching the point a bit but in 10 years he will be nearly 30 (a watershed in the life of most footballers) so he is about a quarter of the way there.

Unseen work
26-07-2013, 10:04 PM
A players career doesn't start when he makes his debut in the first team. I would imagine Caldwell has been playing football since he was a nipper and professionally for a few years now. OK I'm maybe stretching the point a bit but in 10 years he will be nearly 30 (a watershed in the life of most footballers) so he is about a quarter of the way there.


Sorry but I just don't understand the logic of that, a 19 year old in most cases is at the very start of their career mainly unless their exceptional

Largshibby
26-07-2013, 10:27 PM
Sorry but I just don't understand the logic of that, a 19 year old in most cases is at the very start of their career mainly unless their exceptional

Yawn....... sorry - its late but here goes. Many footballers are offered their first professional terms when they are maybe 16 years old (don't know for sure but I'm talking in general terms). For me that's when their career begins. Dundee Utd played a youngster last season who was 16. If this applied to Caldwell that would mean he already has 4 years under his belt. 75% of career remaining =3 x 4 i.e 12 years taking him to age 31/32 so I stand by my opinion. Goodnight and don't lose any sleep over it.

Unseen work
26-07-2013, 10:52 PM
Jeeeesh your a sensitive wee guy you ain't ya.

Yes many sign professional contracts at 16 but to say their first team career starts then in my opinion is rubbish. All the youngsters horribine Harris Caldwell handling Forster Stanton all have plenty of time to improve their only young guys. Glad your not in charge as we would have no youngsters coming through as you would have binned them all by their 17th birthday.

blackpoolhibs
26-07-2013, 10:57 PM
None of our players are ready to play at the required standard i expect from Hibs players, but most will be ok for a bottom 6 team who will flirt with a relegation battle in the SPFL. :rolleyes:

Thecat23
26-07-2013, 11:42 PM
This prob isn't going to go down well, but for me Handling is just like Gary Glen at hearts. Very little threat and won't score many goals. A player who I think will end up in Div 1. Guy works really hard and is young but I can't see it myself. Caldwell on the other hand I personally think is better.

HibeeBigFly
27-07-2013, 12:18 AM
Both are ready, Handling edges it for me. Both are better than Vine imo.

HibeeBigFly
27-07-2013, 12:24 AM
They will probably both get hounded out of this club and end up at an spl team whom will finished ahead of us.

They need games and someone in midfield who can load the bullets and they will score. Fwiw I think Robertson could have a good season.

marleyhib
27-07-2013, 12:45 AM
Young players need experienced pros around them to flourish, at the moment we have none - give me a Brewster, Mixu, John O'Neill, FFS Charnley, Yogi, Rae, McGinlay, Kane, Murdo McLeod or a Boozy.

Most of all they need a manager that knows what he's doing.

California-Hibs
27-07-2013, 12:48 AM
Both are ready, Handling edges it for me. Both are better than Vine imo.

You are wrong on all 3 accounts here, with the last being the biggest of them all!

Pray4Marc
27-07-2013, 02:12 AM
Just wanted peoples opinions on whether or not you think Handling and Caldwell are ready yet? I'm not starting this thread to try and a have a go/basing it on what I saw last night because that wouldn't be fair. So, does anyone think they are ready? :greengrin

I would like Handing to focus on his 1st touch during a game, not his hair. Vastly overrated. Needs at least a season on loan.

Just_Jimmy
27-07-2013, 02:47 AM
If this lad Collins turns out to be a player then I'd be more than happy for Caldwell to play as the third option; coming off the bench and getting the odd start. I'm not convinced about Handling although he was the only player who gave a **** in the second half last night.

Largshibby
27-07-2013, 11:27 AM
Jeeeesh your a sensitive wee guy you ain't ya.

Yes many sign professional contracts at 16 but to say their first team career starts then in my opinion is rubbish. All the youngsters horribine Harris Caldwell handling Forster Stanton all have plenty of time to improve their only young guys. Glad your not in charge as we would have no youngsters coming through as you would have binned them all by their 17th birthday.

The forum's about opinions and you just happen to disagree with me so there's no need to be patronising (that means you talk down to people). It would help if you actually read and understood my post. I said their career starts at 16 not their first team career.

Unseen work
28-07-2013, 06:33 PM
The forum's about opinions and you just happen to disagree with me so there's no need to be patronising (that means you talk down to people). It would help if you actually read and understood my post. I said their career starts at 16 not their first team career.

You were the one who said "yawn" etc when I disagreed with your opinion so can barely call me the patronising one. I'm sure many would disagree when you say your a quarter of their way through at 19

Jonnyboy
28-07-2013, 06:49 PM
Jeezus. Five minutes in the first team and already they're being written off. I despair

truehibernian
28-07-2013, 06:58 PM
Jeezus. Five minutes in the first team and already they're being written off. I despair

True JB, true - would help if we had a manager who played players to position though and played Danny at striker, played Lewis in a left sided position, played Craig in his preferred and most potent role in centre midfield, played two up front at home and showed desire to win games, and didn't play centre halves who are injured.

Danny will score for fun at Hibs if allowed to progress as a striker, in a front two, and given the backing of the fans (and some leeway). I honestly don't know why managers see the need to tinker, try and 'out smart' and spoil a players game by asking them to play positions they are clearly not going to master as quickly as they'd expect/like. Danny has played a striker all his days, he loves scoring goals, so allow him to do that - Pat is in danger of wrecking this young boy's confidence and career in my opinion.

Andy74
28-07-2013, 07:02 PM
True JB, true - would help if we had a manager who played players to position though and played Danny at striker, played Lewis in a left sided position, played Craig in his preferred and most potent role in centre midfield, played two up front at home and showed desire to win games, and didn't play centre halves who are injured.

Danny will score for fun at Hibs if allowed to progress as a striker, in a front two, and given the backing of the fans (and some leeway). I honestly don't know why managers see the need to tinker, try and 'out smart' and spoil a players game by asking them to play positions they are clearly not going to master as quickly as they'd expect/like. Danny has played a striker all his days, he loves scoring goals, so allow him to do that - Pat is in danger of wrecking this young boy's confidence and career in my opinion.

Nonsense. Nowt wrong with bedding young strikers in in wide positions. He has played a few games up front now including during the week and doesn't quite look ready. A few games wide will do him no harm at all.

Still, another thing to level at the manager eh!

hibsbollah
28-07-2013, 07:09 PM
True JB, true - would help if we had a manager who played players to position though and played Danny at striker, played Lewis in a left sided position, played Craig in his preferred and most potent role in centre midfield, played two up front at home and showed desire to win games, and didn't play centre halves who are injured.

Danny will score for fun at Hibs if allowed to progress as a striker, in a front two, and given the backing of the fans (and some leeway). I honestly don't know why managers see the need to tinker, try and 'out smart' and spoil a players game by asking them to play positions they are clearly not going to master as quickly as they'd expect/like. Danny has played a striker all his days, he loves scoring goals, so allow him to do that - Pat is in danger of wrecking this young boy's confidence and career in my opinion.

I agree with the sentiments, TH, but this obsession with players out of position isnt unique to Fenlon, its the hibs way since at least Yogi's time, continuing with Calderwood and Fenlon. Stevenson, Hanlon, Hogg, Wotherspoon, Riordan, Bamba (just off the top of my slightly inebriated head), even Griffiths, constantly being asked to play two or more positions throughout a season. It drives me mental.

truehibernian
28-07-2013, 07:23 PM
Nonsense. Nowt wrong with bedding young strikers in in wide positions. He has played a few games up front now including during the week and doesn't quite look ready. A few games wide will do him no harm at all.

Still, another thing to level at the manager eh!

Every right to my opinion Andy and I would ask you when have I been a Pat 'basher' until very very recently because of his insistence on playing one up top and certain players in completely the wrong position - I bloody drink with the man now and again and happen to think he's got the makings of a good manager but needs to be more aggressive and positive in his playing style. The playing players in different positions is not unique, however when you have a fit, hungry young striker, who all he wants to do is score goals, you play him up front to 'bed him in'. Has playing Danny out wide worked in your opinion ? Or could we look at the wide areas and get in genuine pace in these positions - Danny is not a player who can skin a player and create down that flank, I know because I've watched his career as a youth. Last season he played a few U20 games in this 'new role' and was found wanting until James put him into a front 2 or 3 in some games. In one derby in particular he did next to nothing first half, yet created chance after chance, hitting the post and bar, when he was switched - because it was clear he was extremely comfortable in that position.

'He's played a few games up front.....and doesn't look ready' - to me that comment is nonsense. The boy isn't a winger, he isn't and never ever will be a winger - he's a striker, always has been and always will be - and a very good one at that if he's given a fair chance there. He did the same with Eoin last season too and he looked lost out there. If you want width then buy them, or cultivate them in the youth sides. Don't expect at pro level strikers to suddenly become wide, creative players when they're not accustomed to the role.

Jonnyboy
28-07-2013, 07:28 PM
Nonsense. Nowt wrong with bedding young strikers in in wide positions. He has played a few games up front now including during the week and doesn't quite look ready. A few games wide will do him no harm at all.

Still, another thing to level at the manager eh!

Why is it that every time I read a post from you, it comes across as you're right and everybody else is wrong?

Handling has struggled to meet the obviously exacting standards of numerous posters because he's young, learning the game, is in a team that is pedestrian and lacking in belief and despite your assertions that there's 'nowt wrong with bedding young strikers in in wide positions' there clearly is in these circumstances.

HibbyAndy
28-07-2013, 07:33 PM
Ross Caldwell will be superb for us.

...WentToMowAnSPL
09-08-2013, 05:07 PM
I thought Sam Stanton played well when he came on last week ... As did Danny Handling and remember Ross Caldwelll's finish last season at the PBS last season...

Difficult balance to give them game time and first team starts or not ,...

Thoughts ?

hibbymark
09-08-2013, 05:19 PM
I agree that Sam Stanton looked decent when he came on at the weekend but i think we are still trying to find a position for Danny Handling as I think playing up front where he played for the 19s is a huge step up physically for him. The thing that I was thinking about re this weekend though is that our youngsters won regularly against what is now effectively Hearts first team. You would like to think with the other more experienced players we have alongside some of the youngsters that we should do the business on sunday IF we turn up.

hibbymick
09-08-2013, 05:44 PM
Ross caldwell will be looking to keep up his impressive goal scoring against them.

DAVE1875
09-08-2013, 06:34 PM
We're baying Fenlon to sign a right winger I don't know why he doesn't just hand Andy Black an opportunity, unless he's gone out on loan or left the club?

...WentToMowAnSPL
09-08-2013, 06:40 PM
We're baying Fenlon to sign a right winger I don't know why he doesn't just hand Andy Black an opportunity, unless he's gone out on loan or left the club?

I like the idea of aggressively promote our faster, more skilful youngsters ... Not seen Andy Black what's he like ??

Jonnyboy
09-08-2013, 07:48 PM
We're baying Fenlon to sign a right winger I don't know why he doesn't just hand Andy Black an opportunity, unless he's gone out on loan or left the club?


I like the idea of aggressively promote our faster, more skilful youngsters ... Not seen Andy Black what's he like ??

Pretty sure Andy Black (who is a very impressive right back) is only 16 or maybe just turned 17

oconnors_strip
09-08-2013, 09:08 PM
Pretty sure Andy Black (who is a very impressive right back) is only 16 or maybe just turned 17

blackie is only 17, 18 next month

yes he is a very talented player but nowhere near ready for first team action

Jonnyboy
09-08-2013, 09:13 PM
blackie is only 17, 18 next month

yes he is a very talented player but nowhere near ready for first team action

Agreed :agree:

One to watch though :agree:

Love the Green
09-08-2013, 09:23 PM
I thought Sam Stanton played well when he came on last week ... As did Danny Handling and remember Ross Caldwelll's finish last season at the PBS last season...

Difficult balance to give them game time and first team starts or not ,...

Thoughts ?
FFS neither of them kicked a ball when they came on contributed absolutely nothing last week "keep the faith"

Jones28
09-08-2013, 11:46 PM
Mind Jordan Forsters debut was the last derby :thumbsup:

Stringer
09-08-2013, 11:57 PM
Saw Stanton at a u20s match v Preston ath. Basically some 30 something Preston pans lads trying to snap him.

He did really well. Great forward runs, calm passing. Reminds me of Jack Wilshere a bit.

Jonnyboy
10-08-2013, 08:15 PM
FFS neither of them kicked a ball when they came on contributed absolutely nothing last week "keep the faith"

Good to see you're still keeping the faith

neil7908
10-08-2013, 09:33 PM
There is definitely promise there and with Harris out someone like Stanton might be just what we need going forward. Its a difficult game to give someone a first start though. I've been really surprised how little Caldwell has featured for us, he is still a bit raw but for me looks a little bit more assured than Handling and has the physique to handle the step up. He bagged a couple of goals for us at the end of last season with very few minutes on the pitch - what else can he do to get more game time?

Dunderhall
10-08-2013, 09:58 PM
There is definitely promise there and with Harris out someone like Stanton might be just what we need going forward. Its a difficult game to give someone a first start though. I've been really surprised how little Caldwell has featured for us, he is still a bit raw but for me looks a little bit more assured than Handling and has the physique to handle the step up. He bagged a couple of goals for us at the end of last season with very few minutes on the pitch - what else can he do to get more game time?
Agree Caldwell has looked the most ready of them from what I've seen.
Pat seems to prefer Handling, or at least see him as a more suitable replacement in his game plan though.

neil7908
10-08-2013, 11:52 PM
Agree Caldwell has looked the most ready of them from what I've seen.
Pat seems to prefer Handling, or at least see him as a more suitable replacement in his game plan though.

Its bizarre, I dont think Danny is a bad player, he may well turn out to be a great one in time but what I've seen of both of them I'm amazed that he is getting ahead of Caldwell.

The goal he scored in the derby last season was coolness personified (something not a lot of players his age could have pulled off) but even taking that away I've been impressed by him in general.

...WentToMowAnSPL
13-08-2013, 08:14 PM
Let them have a chance...

We as a support get behind the youngsters

Nothing against Collins but why not ? He can be a sub

And I'd start Stanton....

But can we make a player who is not the goalie captain ?

My wishes .... Oh and I want Stevenson to play too :-)

Ryan69
13-08-2013, 08:22 PM
So well pay 200k for a player that scored 18 from mostly the bench last season....hence the reason he left as wants first team football.
The young guys do need a chance,but not at the expense of someone whos not had a chance yet....and tobe honest Collins has done nothing wrong and ive liked what ive saw of him so far.
Collins will score goals for us....but not the way we set out the team at the moment.

What you smoking anyway?

...WentToMowAnSPL
13-08-2013, 08:29 PM
So well pay 200k for a player that scored 18 from mostly the bench last season....hence the reason he left as wants first team football.
The young guys do need a chance,but not at the expense of someone whos not had a chance yet....and tobe honest Collins has done nothing wrong and ive liked what ive saw of him so far.
Collins will score goals for us....but not the way we set out the team at the moment.

What you smoking anyway?

Big clubs would introduce new signings slowly :-)

Ryan69
13-08-2013, 08:42 PM
Big clubs would introduce new signings slowly :-)

Thats not how it works. If you sign a player midseason maybe...
If thats the case why have so many teams in spl starting with players weve never heard of(new signings)?

steviehibsleith
13-08-2013, 08:52 PM
So well pay 200k for a player that scored 18 from mostly the bench last season....hence the reason he left as wants first team football.
The young guys do need a chance,but not at the expense of someone whos not had a chance yet....and tobe honest Collins has done nothing wrong and ive liked what ive saw of him so far.
Collins will score goals for us....but not the way we set out the team at the moment.

What you smoking anyway?
Completely agree Collins is a bolt on starter up front great workrate and will score this weekend :flag:

Billy Whizz
13-08-2013, 08:54 PM
Handling to play in the "hole" on Saturday

Sumner
14-08-2013, 05:59 AM
Either ahead of Vine
.. Vine looking like worst Hibs no.9 since Lee Power.. there's a terrifying prospect.. another Lee Power !!!!

500miles
14-08-2013, 06:07 AM
Either ahead of Vine
.. Vine looking like worst Hibs no.9 since Lee Power.. there's a terrifying prospect.. another Lee Power !!!!

I don't get this witch hunt against Vine. He was far more involved than Collins over the last two weeks, which is massively to his credit when no one else in the midfield looked like they wanted to take any responsibility.

Sumner
14-08-2013, 06:34 AM
Its reverse psychology.. Hopefully Vine reads this and thinks "I'll show that Sumner on hibs.net".. promptly firing in some goals..
By the same reverse psychology may I add, his beard makes him look very handsome and not at all like an aging hillbilly..
(walks off whistling Gillette tune)

Hibee Ryan
14-08-2013, 06:36 AM
Anyone looked to the playing style to see why it take youngsters a while to get up to par? The youth teams nearly always play beautiful passing football along the ground but as soon as these guys get into the first team it turns into a game of long bangers.

So guys like handling and Caldwell are used to being passed to, trapping it, waiting for overlaps, playing them in then running into the box for crosses and such whereas now they have it pumped up to their head/chest and when they do win we have nobody that makes overlapping runs.

Everytime a striker seems to get the ball out wide for hibs we have nobody in the box since nobody is making attacking runs. If we aren't going to let them play the way they have done their whole youth career why not just make them play the way the first team do? At least that way they don't have to get used to hoofball

Steve20
14-08-2013, 06:45 AM
Why are we writing off Collins and Vine already? Play any of them up front and it won't matter until the tactics are changed and we try to create some chances during matches.

SquashedFrogg
14-08-2013, 06:53 AM
Why are we writing off Collins and Vine already? Play any of them up front and it won't matter until the tactics are changed and we try to create some chances during matches.

I remember watching Vine against us a few times and he looked very impressive. Looked a dangerous player. Likewise Craig.

Our tactics and style of play are antiquated. I reckon even Messi would look poor in a Fenlon team.

spike220
15-08-2013, 11:08 AM
What does Caldwell Have to do to get in the Team? He scored the winner versus them last time (cool as you like - what was missing in front of goal last weekend) has a great record with the club, why is he not getting on the park? Is he injured? Off the field issues? Does Pat not like him? If he was Hearts player we be getting told he was the next Gareth Bale!!! He could and should be building a partnership with Collins.

Bostonhibby
15-08-2013, 11:16 AM
Was wondering much the same thing. Like the effort he puts in and has an eye for goal. Wonder if he fancies a switch to defensive midfield, looks like the best way in currently.

Golden Bear
15-08-2013, 11:18 AM
Was wondering much the same thing. Like the effort he puts in and has an eye for goal. Wonder if he fancies a switch to defensive midfield, looks like the best way in currently.

Personally I think he'd be better at full back (either side will do I suppose)

:wink:

Waxy
15-08-2013, 11:25 AM
Deserves a starting spell up front.
A goalgetter. Exactly what we need right now.

frazeHFC
15-08-2013, 11:27 AM
Definately deserves his chance. He came on and scored 2 crucial goals last season and for the U20s looks very composed in front of goal. Him and Collins up front for me on Saturday hopefully. (doubt it will though)

LioNeilMessi
15-08-2013, 11:41 AM
Been wondering this for a while, he was very impressive when he had his chance post split last season.

Andy74
15-08-2013, 11:51 AM
Not better than Collins or Vine is he?

Speedway
15-08-2013, 11:53 AM
Impress more than Vine or Collins do in training?

Squealing pig
15-08-2013, 12:01 PM
Change his nationality?

The Hibee Harp
15-08-2013, 12:10 PM
What does Caldwell Have to do to get in the Team? He scored the winner versus them last time (cool as you like - what was missing in front of goal last weekend) has a great record with the club, why is he not getting on the park? Is he injured? Off the field issues? Does Pat not like him? If he was Hearts player we be getting told he was the next Gareth Bale!!! He could and should be building a partnership with Collins.

Was thinking the same last season too. Ross has impressed when given the opportunity and certainly carries a goal threat. By contrast I cannot understand why Danny Handling continues to get as much game time as he does because he has contributed the centre of a ring donut!

PerfectlyFranck
15-08-2013, 12:13 PM
For the first team, he wasn't as impressive as some are claiming. If it wasn't for his winner against Hearts, I don't think many would have him starting.

I'd definitely play him ahead of Handling though.

Brightside
15-08-2013, 12:23 PM
Was thinking the same last season too. Ross has impressed when given the opportunity and certainly carries a goal threat. By contrast I cannot understand why Danny Handling continues to get as much game time as he does because he has contributed the centre of a ring donut!

Maybe if Danny was played in his natural position we might see more of what he does in the u20s. Playing him as a right winger is pointless. But its the Fenlon Way.

The Hibee Harp
15-08-2013, 12:27 PM
Maybe if Danny was played in his natural position we might see more of what he does in the u20s. Playing him as a right winger is pointless. But its the Fenlon Way.


It never did Lewis Stevenson any harm playing out of position :wink:

spike220
15-08-2013, 12:43 PM
For the first team, he wasn't as impressive as some are claiming. If it wasn't for his winner against Hearts, I don't think many would have him starting.

I'd definitely play him ahead of Handling though. That does not make any sense. That is just like saying: If Griffiths didn't score goals we would not want him. Yes he proved he can score in the SPL, and yes we want to score more, what other reason would we want him for???

PerfectlyFranck
16-08-2013, 10:42 PM
That does not make any sense. That is just like saying: If Griffiths didn't score goals we would not want him. Yes he proved he can score in the SPL, and yes we want to score more, what other reason would we want him for???

I may not make sense to you, but is perfectly valid. It isn't 'just like saying' what you have mentioned either.

Finishing well for two goals in the SPL is all well and good, but I've also seen him play for the rest of those games.
Like I said, he wasn't as impressive as some are claiming and probably wouldn't be mentioned if it wasn't for that moment of class.

I hope he improves the rest of his game as his finishing looked impressive; I'd sooner have Vine & Collins playing ahead of him.

Pray4Marc
17-08-2013, 08:36 AM
Danny needs to go on loan and get some experience and physically strengthen. From what I've seen he looks out of his depth, even when up front. Caldwell has all the characteristics a forward needs. I hope he gets a run in the team as he showed us what he can do at Tynecastle.

brydekirk
17-08-2013, 11:58 AM
Danny needs to go on loan and get some experience and physically strengthen. From what I've seen he looks out of his depth, even when up front. Caldwell has all the characteristics a forward needs. I hope he gets a run in the team as he showed us what he can do at Tynecastle.

Correct