Reasons For Wanting Petrie Out

[hibsmad]

Ok I have read through the various sack the board/manager threads and wanted to come at it from a different angle.

Personally I really want to see Fenlon go. He has shown that he is not up to it, and even if we start to pick up points and do better on the park, you know that it is going to be through playing eye-bleeding football.

The person I would like to address in this thread is Petrie. More precisely, can people give reasons as to why they want him to go. Please don't just say things like "the club is rotten to the core", or "there has to be change at the top". There are a thousand other posts across various treads stating this. What I would like is to hear real examples of the things that Petrie has done wrong.

If I am being honest, I don't know if I want Petrie out or not. However I realise that there are a lot of people who are desperate for this so I thought that this thread may enlighten supporters like myself and explain to them why we should go along at 2 on Saturday and stand alongside the 'Petrie must go' banners.

A few possible reasons I can think of straight away are:

1. He, along with the rest of the board, can't pick a decent manager. This has hurt us badly but I would not get rid of him based on this. If he was seen to be doing an excellent job at running the finances of the club then surely rather than getting rid of him, the club would be better consulting with other, more football minded people, when it comes to choosing the next manager.

2. Lack of ambition. This one is debatable. Over the past two seasons we have signed 2 players St Johnstone wanted to keep, 1 player Motherwell wanted to keep, and 1 player ICT wanted to keep hold of. We have also apparently paid a fee for a player who was well thought of in England. Going back further we have brought in guys on decent wages (I presume) like Stokes and Riordan. I do feel disappointed in the board for not splashing out on Griffiths though.

3. Not changing a manager when it is clear it is not going well. This is the worst for me! We have lost literally seasons because the board have not emptied a manager when it is clear to all the fans that it is not working. We even turned down compensation for CC for crying out loud!!!!

Based on the above I don't think he deserves to go. What we need to do is discover the winning formula to selecting better managers.

As I said above though, I am undecided on whether he should go or not. That however is based on a feeling that surely so many other Hibs fans can't be wrong. So I would like all the fans out there who are desperate for change to give me specific reasons for wanting him out. Convince me, and others like me, why we should want rid.

I realise this may end up being merged but it would be good if it could be kept separate.

[erskine-hibby]

Can't pick a decent manager or can't keep one is good enough for me.

[hibee19]

His moustache is awful

[Beefster]

I'm not too fussed about Rodders right now but it would be great to get an inspirational CEO with a bit of drive and enthusiasm. I suspect that, even if we got the right person, Rodders' micromanagement would mean that they'd end up having too little power to change things.

[Pretty Boy]

We are at best stagnating.

If he goes soon there is a chance he will, in time, be remembered fondly.

[greenlex]

Picking a manager is a lottery. Not a reason to go IMO. Knowing when progress is too slow or non existent is another matter. I think the board need help at a football level. Someone to oversee the playing side. A Director of Football if you like. Not some ex pro who talks a good game but someone with the know how and vision along the Swansea lines. There must be someone. someone with a track record for this type of thing.

[SteveHFC]

His moustache is awful

http://imageshack.com/scaled/large/12/b7a4.gif:na na:

[Saorsa]

I'm not too fussed about Rodders right now but it would be great to get an inspirational CEO with a bit of drive and enthusiasm. I suspect that, even if we got the right person, Rodders' micromanagement would mean that they'd end up having too little power to change things.That is why he has tae be out the picture altogether, he wants tae control everything and as long as that's how it is we'll go naewhere unless it's further back.

[IanM]

Can't pick a decent manager or can't keep one is good enough for me.

:agree:

I believe Petrie has to the best of his ability tried to balance the books, made (some) funds available to the managers and has, as a business, kept us ticking over quite nicely... however, not as a football club.

The inability to sign a decent manager when we've had the chance, the inability to sack a manager when we've had a chance, and from what we know, the inability to ask for guidance when appointing a manager when he's had the chance is why there's so much anger towards the way he's been running the club.

I'm all for him balancing the books but he shouldn't be responsible for appointing managers, he's had his chance and he's failed. We've had enough of the penny pinching for deals as well - we (arguably) missed out on Lyle Taylor because of this, probably Griffiths too and countless other players by trying to cut deals, moving the goalposts in terms of wages etc when like other clubs want a player will under bid but then come in realistically. i would really hate to see the real list of players we could have had at this club but lost because of this.
I, under no circumstance want us to go down the same route as hearts but there has to be some give and take - we all know, not just at hibs, the better the results, the better the attendance, the better the revenue.. why can't we just once stop the penny pinching from the board and build a team where we get the players the manager wants (i get we won't get them all) instead of trying to survive on loan deals to salvage our season - Fenlon has had his first chance to buy and i personally think he's done ok with the 8 players in this season and if it's not Pat then someone will turn this team around but this could have been sorted a long time before now.

so for me, the penny pinching and the lack of knowledge appointing managers would want me to see him go - however these are 2 things he can change himself

[Captain Trips]

His gross incompetence when CC could have went in summer with no compo only to think he was good enough to continue and we end up paying up.

That alone is sackable

[Brightside]

I dont really get teh sack the board stuff tbh. They are keeping us going in hard times and i can handle the fact that we cant afford the best players or the best managers. BUT i cannot handle that we have a manager who wants to play negative football all the time. Replace the manager and move on. NOBODY buys football clubs in Scotland.

[Saorsa]

I dont really get teh sack the board stuff tbh. They are keeping us going in hard times and i can handle the fact that we cant afford the best players or the best managers. BUT i cannot handle that we have a manager who wants to play negative football all the time. Replace the manager and move on. NOBODY buys football clubs in Scotland.Like he's replaced the last 4 you mean? That's improved things hasn't it? I normally agree with a lot you post but no on this, when everything else has changed but nothing has changed, it's time tae look at the one thing that hasnae changed.

[Caversham Green]

Ok I have read through the various sack the board/manager threads and wanted to come at it from a different angle.

Personally I really want to see Fenlon go. He has shown that he is not up to it, and even if we start to pick up points and do better on the park, you know that it is going to be through playing eye-bleeding football.

The person I would like to address in this thread is Petrie. More precisely, can people give reasons as to why they want him to go. Please don't just say things like "the club is rotten to the core", or "there has to be change at the top". There are a thousand other posts across various treads stating this. What I would like is to hear real examples of the things that Petrie has done wrong.

If I am being honest, I don't know if I want Petrie out or not. However I realise that there are a lot of people who are desperate for this so I thought that this thread may enlighten supporters like myself and explain to them why we should go along at 2 on Saturday and stand alongside the 'Petrie must go' banners.

A few possible reasons I can think of straight away are:

1. He, along with the rest of the board, can't pick a decent manager. This has hurt us badly but I would not get rid of him based on this. If he was seen to be doing an excellent job at running the finances of the club then surely rather than getting rid of him, the club would be better consulting with other, more football minded people, when it comes to choosing the next manager.

2. Lack of ambition. This one is debatable. Over the past two seasons we have signed 2 players St Johnstone wanted to keep, 1 player Motherwell wanted to keep, and 1 player ICT wanted to keep hold of. We have also apparently paid a fee for a player who was well thought of in England. Going back further we have brought in guys on decent wages (I presume) like Stokes and Riordan. I do feel disappointed in the board for not splashing out on Griffiths though.

3. Not changing a manager when it is clear it is not going well. This is the worst for me! We have lost literally seasons because the board have not emptied a manager when it is clear to all the fans that it is not working. We even turned down compensation for CC for crying out loud!!!!

Based on the above I don't think he deserves to go. What we need to do is discover the winning formula to selecting better managers.

As I said above though, I am undecided on whether he should go or not. That however is based on a feeling that surely so many other Hibs fans can't be wrong. So I would like all the fans out there who are desperate for change to give me specific reasons for wanting him out. Convince me, and others like me, why we should want rid.

I realise this may end up being merged but it would be good if it could be kept separate.

To address each of your points in turn:

1. I don't know what happens to managers when they come to Hibs. Since McLeish the only two managers I had real negative feelings about were Mowbray and Fenlon - I was wrong about one of those - the rest would have been in my top five of reasonable choices. Up until Coco they all started well and then suddenly deteriorated for no obvious reason, but JC aside they all had reasonable pedigrees for a club of Hibs' status. On JC, I thought he was an inspired choice and still have this feeling that it was a missed opportunity for both club and man.

2. The lack of ambition thing does my nut a bit. Building one of the best training centres in the country and increasing the ground capacity when we weren't filling the old one was hugely ambitious - in fact subsequent events have shown it to be over-ambitious. We've also spent more on players in wages and transfer fees than any other club in our sector (removing the yams from that). We just can't seem to sign the right ones and whether that's down to the board or the managers is debatable.

3. For legal, financial and operational reasons it's much easier to call for a manager to be removed than to actually do the deed. On that basis I think they got the timing about right, although removing two just before the AGM was just cowardly - I hope they don't do it again with Fenlon. The one exception was CC. Not losing him when they had the chance was a real howler.

My view is that Petrie/the board have reached their sell-by date and there needs to some real fresh thinking rather than approaching the same problems in the same way every time they arise. One last thought - decisions like managerial appointments should be made by the board rather than one man. If Petrie is as autocratic as many think then the other directors are not doing their jobs properly and maybe deserve as much or more flak than Rod himself.

[PeterboroHibee]

I dont really get teh sack the board stuff tbh. They are keeping us going in hard times and i can handle the fact that we cant afford the best players or the best managers. BUT i cannot handle that we have a manager who wants to play negative football all the time. Replace the manager and move on. NOBODY buys football clubs in Scotland.

I dont either tbh. Their recent managerial record isnt great, but apart from that, I cant think of too many reasons for wanting board members to be sacked. The majority of posts I read also seem to be very vague about the reasons for the dissatisfaction with the board.

The only thing Ive seen people suggest that would really concern me is if the board were becoming too involved in footballing matters (picking players etc), but I suppose there is no real way of knowing if that is true?

[hibsmad]

like he's replaced the last 4? That's improved things hasn't it?

But that's my point Dan. Surely, if it is believed he is doing a good job otherwise, then we should not sack him based on this. Would it not be far better to consult and seek out help from other football minded people, and while these conversations are going on tell Rod to piss off upstairs and check the accounts for a bit.

[Brightside]

Like he's replaced the last 4 you mean? That's improved things hasn't it? I normally agree with a lot you post but no on this, when everything else has changed but nothing has changed, it's time tae look at the one thing that hasnae changed.

But thats not going to happen anytime soon DD. Managers dont work out. Its common in this game and we are not the worst. We've given Pat a good kick at the ball and he has come up short. I want attacking football but Im not daft enough to think there is a millionaire waiting to waste his money on Hibs. Because to be very clear Football teams are a waste of money and people only buy them for love or vanity. The boards job is to keep us moving forward off the pitch which we must all agree they have done. BUT we havent got the right manager at the moment to move us forward on the pitch. The last mob that shouted SACK THE BOARD are about to lose the club so maybe Better the Devil You know eh. :aok:

[Saorsa]

But that's my point Dan. Surely, if it is believed he is doing a good job otherwise, then we should not sack him based on this. Would it not be far better to consult and seek out help from other football minded people, and while these conversations are going on tell Rod to piss off upstairs and check the accounts for a bit.Doing a good job means appointing the right people. A string of dud managers, hundreds of thousands tae pay them off, three consecutive bottom 6 places, falling crowds and lost gate money. Is that a club being run by somebody doing a good job? There's nae point in consulting anybody when the person still having the final say (and he will as long as he is involved in any way) knows little about what he is making decisions on. There is nae leadership (he's disappeared again) there's nae direction. We're going naewhere and he's had his chances as far as I'm concerned. It's no all about spending money, clubs with far less out perform us constantly and that is IMO down tae the people running them.

Anyway I'm off for now.

[Hibercelona]

1) Doesn't have a footballing brain
2) Can't pick a manager good enough for this level
3) Hide's away from any difficult questioning
4) Doesn't know how to communicate/connect with the fans
5) He's not a football chairman, he's an "accountant"

I wouldn't mind if Rod remained in some sort of accountancy role at the club, as he's clearly very good at the things he does do right. But he's no club chairman.

[Twa Cairpets]

Like most businesses, to quote the old cliche "If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you always got" applies to Hibs.

I've no doubt whatsoever that Rod has the best interests of Hibs at heart - it would be foolish to think otherwise. He has effected massive change at the club with the stadium and EM, but that's as far, I think, as probably he can take us. It needs a new way of thinking to build on the groundwork he has laid down. Maybe more entrepreneurial, more engaged, more dynamic.

Otherwise, we'll just be getting what we always got.

[WHUHibs]

I'm not too fussed about Rodders right now but it would be great to get an inspirational CEO with a bit of drive and enthusiasm. I suspect that, even if we got the right person, Rodders' micromanagement would mean that they'd end up having too little power to change things.

You hit the nail on the head! Ask the question why have former managers kept silent after they had contracts terminated,,,why would they need to be silenced? What happened really with JC? Any manager or CEO that comes in will not be able to carry out the job required, why,,,? Well I'm sure we can work it out!

[Macaroon]

Best case scenario for me is we find an experienced and proven director of football to take over the sporting side of the club, and leave petrie to oversee the business side. The director of football should be given a budget at the start of each transfer window and it should be down to him and the manager to decide how that budget is spent, no more negotiations involving petrie. The DoF should also be in charge of hiring managers that fit into the club's philosophy of entertaining, attacking football and have been proven at clubs of Hibernian's stature. Most importantly IMO he would oversee the transitions between age groups in our development squads and ensure that the club's tactics, philosophy and standards permeates down through all levels of the club.

Will that happen? Who knows, probably not. I still think Petrie has a role in the club, but certainly not his current one. He needs to step back and pass on some responsibility to someone who understands how a football club should operate.

Oh.. and hire a ****ing PR officer too. :rolleyes:

[WHUHibs]

Like most businesses, to quote the old cliche "If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you always got" applies to Hibs.

I've no doubt whatsoever that Rod has the best interests of Hibs at heart - it would be foolish to think otherwise. He has effected massive change at the club with the stadium and EM, but that's as far, I think, as probably he can take us. It needs a new way of thinking to build on the groundwork he has laid down. Maybe more entrepreneurial, more engaged, more dynamic.

Otherwise, we'll just be getting what we always got.

Sorry but I take issue with best interests,,,,,he is not a hibs fan, he has a small equity stake and is rarely seen around the club , he has many business interests,,,,

We need to find positive ways to change the infrastructure in the club ....now that will be difficult!

[DarlingtonHibee]

1) Doesn't have a footballing brain
2) Can't pick a manager good enough for this level
3) Hide's away from any difficult questioning
4) Doesn't know how to communicate/connect with the fans
5) He's not a football chairman, he's an "accountant"

I wouldn't mind if Rod remained in some sort of accountancy role at the club, as he's clearly very good at the things he does do right. But he's no club chairman.

And you have all this business acumen (understanding the issues of running a business with a multimillion turnover) at 22 to be able to make the above statement - dear, oh dear....

Anyway, give you the benefit of the doubt-can we see your suggestion's to replace Rod ?

[Caversham Green]

1) Doesn't have a footballing brain
2) Can't pick a manager good enough for this level
3) Hide's away from any difficult questioning
4) Doesn't know how to communicate/connect with the fans
5) He's not a football chairman, he's an "accountant"

I wouldn't mind if Rod remained in some sort of accountancy role at the club, as he's clearly very good at the things he does do right. But he's no club chairman.

Are there any "football chairmen" in Scottish football? The only one I can think of just resigned 'cause he couldn't hack it at a third-tier club.

[Septimus]

Petrie showed a major lack of man management when he backed the players against Collins. No management structure can operate when a clear line of responsibility is not established. Apart from that I have a suspicion that a fairly large amount of money is being drained from the club to pay management salaries. There is absolutely no indication that management of our club is a labour of love.

[Onion]

Petrie has done a good job for Hibs over a number of years; not great, just good. His obvious strengths are in negotiation and financial management and up until 2007/8 the club reaped the benefits of his financial prudence and acumen. Some of the deals he did were outstanding. Also think he did an outstanding job in building Easter Road into a stadium we are rightly proud of and befitting our proud footballing heritage. With the windfall, we got from the sale of the golden generation, no one could blame the Hibs Board for also investing in a state of the art training centre.

However, I said many years ago after he oversaw the completion of the infrastructure that Petrie should move aside, or just concentrate on financial consultancy to the business. IMO he is not - and never was - the right man to lead the club once all the brickwork was in place and the last 5 or 6 years has proven this. We are a football business. Everything the club does should be focused on winning football matches. In that regard alone, Petrie's business performance has been truly dire. Not just bad, but desperately bad. His position has been untenable for years, yet he has shamefully hidden behind the sackings of managers that he appointed and behind the apron strings of the club's owner. I do not hold with idea that Petrie no longer gets involved in manager appointments - that is a myth that he has tried to create for this own protection. The first team manager is THE most important employee at any club and to say that the Chairman/CE of the company doesn't sign of that appointment is rubbish.

Hibernian FC is also a prime example of a company that has been run by the same people for far too long. It's unhealthy. It is now a club that thinks it is accountable to no one. Poor or highly selective communications, sees its fans as cash cows, no clear vision, strategic direction or planning, is perceived as arrogant, inefficient and not open to challenge, a culture that tolerates failure on the field and puts emphasis on all the wrong things such as sacking DJs. This all suggests that the Hibs Board - and autocratic Petrie in particular - does not have some of the basic skills to run a football club - and probably knows that. Instead I suspect Petrie concentrates on the finances and the easy day to day decisions of running the company rather than set the standards for the club's employees, the strategic direction and instilling a culture of high performance in everything they do. Even if all this is just perception, it is materially damaging our club and the business.

So, we need someone at the helm of the club that:

1. can challenge our owner.
2. can instil a high performance culture (winning mentality) across the business
3. can pick a decent manager, work with them and sack them when they come up short.
4. is an excellent communicator
5. has empathy for us long suffering fans and sees themselves as one of us
6. has a vision for the club
7. can set short & longer term strategy for the football club, and happily share that with everyone
8. has an "open door" policy and values the fans, manager and players above all others
9. is open to challenge, has an open mind to new ideas & fresh thinking
10. has new ideas and plans to raise new revenue streams for the benefit of the team/manager (other than from Hibs fans)
11. doesn't do everything by the book, prepared to take a business risk
12. can reinstate pride in our club

I don't see Petrie being able to do any of that, so IMHO he should go.

[Liberal Hibby]

Petrie showed a major lack of man management when he backed the players against Collins.

Apart from that I have a suspicion that a fairly large amount of money is being drained from the club to pay management salaries.

You forgot to add 'FACT' after each of these.

[hibsmad]

To address each of your points in turn:

1. I don't know what happens to managers when they come to Hibs. Since McLeish the only two managers I had real negative feelings about were Mowbray and Fenlon - I was wrong about one of those - the rest would have been in my top five of reasonable choices. Up until Coco they all started well and then suddenly deteriorated for no obvious reason, but JC aside they all had reasonable pedigrees for a club of Hibs' status. On JC, I thought he was an inspired choice and still have this feeling that it was a missed opportunity for both club and man.

2. The lack of ambition thing does my nut a bit. Building one of the best training centres in the country and increasing the ground capacity when we weren't filling the old one was hugely ambitious - in fact subsequent events have shown it to be over-ambitious. We've also spent more on players in wages and transfer fees than any other club in our sector (removing the yams from that). We just can't seem to sign the right ones and whether that's down to the board or the managers is debatable.

3. For legal, financial and operational reasons it's much easier to call for a manager to be removed than to actually do the deed. On that basis I think they got the timing about right, although removing two just before the AGM was just cowardly - I hope they don't do it again with Fenlon. The one exception was CC. Not losing him when they had the chance was a real howler.

My view is that Petrie/the board have reached their sell-by date and there needs to some real fresh thinking rather than approaching the same problems in the same way every time they arise. One last thought - decisions like managerial appointments should be made by the board rather than one man. If Petrie is as autocratic as many think then the other directors are not doing their jobs properly and maybe deserve as much or more flak than Rod himself.

To be clear regarding the lack of ambition. That was a point I raised as I know that a lot of fans do feel the board have lacked ambition.

Last season was the first time I have really felt this however when we didn't sign Griffiths. I don't know what went on but I think that we should have offered him a deal that would have dwarfed our current top salary. Obviously we may not have had him this season as it would have depended on Wolves demands with regards to a fee. We should though, in my opinion, made him aware that a substantial salary would have been on the table in January for a pre contract. I think that a chairman with a bit more football knowledge would have done this. Griffiths would have been a superstar for us and we could easily have made our money back if not achieved a profit.

Of course maybe we did do this and Leigh just wanted away from Edinburgh as some suggest.

[Hibercelona]

And you have all this business acumen (understanding the issues of running a business with a multimillion turnover) at 22 to be able to make the above statement - dear, oh dear....

Anyway, give you the benefit of the doubt-can we see your suggestion's to replace Rod ?

Not I don't. I do however have a better understanding of where this club should be and what the fans expectation are. Something any chairman should be aware of. Something Rod Petrie doesn't seem to have a clue about.


Are there any "football chairmen" in Scottish football? The only one I can think of just resigned 'cause he couldn't hack it at a third-tier club.

I'm not interested in other clubs, i'm interested in ours. We need someone running the club who at least has a basic understanding of what the fans are looking for from their financial investment. Rod Petrie has failed repeatedly to clearly state what our aims are as a club and what he intends to do in order to get us there. When the pressure amounts, he hides away, because he has no idea what to do.

[greenlex]

To be clear regarding the lack of ambition. That was a point I raised as I know that a lot of fans do feel the board have lacked ambition.

Last season was the first time I have really felt this however when we didn't sign Griffiths. I don't know what went on but I think that we should have offered him a deal that would have dwarfed our current top salary. Obviously we may not have had him this season as it would have depended on Wolves demands with regards to a fee. We should though, in my opinion, made him aware that a substantial salary would have been on the table in January for a pre contract. I think that a chairman with a bit more football knowledge would have done this. Griffiths would have been a superstar for us and we could easily have made our money back if not achieved a profit.

Of course maybe we did do this and Leigh just wanted away from Edinburgh as some suggest.
IIRC a deal was done with leigh and it down to Wolves who wouldnt sell.

[HibsMax]

I have no reason other than we seem to have changed everything else. Process of elimination. Players have changed. Managers have changed. Coaches have changed. Training facilities have changed.

[Heisenberg]

IIRC a deal was done with leigh and it down to Wolves who wouldnt sell.

Yep. Leigh said himself it wasn't up to him. Was down to Hibs and Wolves to reach an agreement but it didnt happen.

[greenlex]

You hit the nail on the head! Ask the question why have former managers kept silent after they had contracts terminated,,,why would they need to be silenced? What happened really with JC? Any manager or CEO that comes in will not be able to carry out the job required, why,,,? Well I'm sure we can work it out!
You will rarely find a sacked manager spilling the beans at any club. Its not peculiar to Hibs. If they have any ambition to work in the game again its just not done. I wouldnt hire a manager who has dissed a previous employer and I dont think most would either.

[lucky]

Whilst the board have got appointments of the manager wrong on a number of occasions they have done a decent job on managing the debt, selling players, building the ground, building the training centre. They have also given most managers a competive budget to see Hibs sit comfortably in the top 6 of the SPL. Appointing managers is a lottery.

St. Johnstone have done great but won nothing and had no real demands on them. Motherwell have got lucky with McCall but have been into administration and have won nothing. St mirren won the LC but are generally a poor side side. Killie also won the LC but have huge debt and a very unpopular chairman. Dutd and Hearts have had their chairmans cash to spend and won a the SC. Hearts are now on the brink and Utd look as bad as us. Aberdeen have under achieved by even more than Hibs. So appointing good managers is luck but reality as a support we have big demands, but board is not the problem it's the manager.

[hibsmad]

Yep. Leigh said himself it wasn't up to him. Was down to Hibs and Wolves to reach an agreement but it didnt happen.

Ok, really don't want this thread to go off topic but I have to ask. If Leigh was happy with the terms Hibs were offering and wanted to play for us, why did he sign a two year extension with a League 1 club rather than sign a pre contract with us in January?

The only explanation is that the Hibs board did not offer enough to convince him to wait. I don't buy all this "their new manager put an arm around him" nonsense. If he wanted to play for us and was happy with the terms we were offering, he would have waited 6 months and signed for us.

I don't believe that Petrie was willing to offer him enough.

[greenlex]

Ok, really don't want this thread to go off topic but I have to ask. If Leigh was happy with the terms Hibs were offering and wanted to play for us, why did he sign a two year extension with a League 1 club rather than sign a pre contract with us in January?

The only explanation is that the Hibs board did not offer enough to convince him to wait. I don't buy all this "their new manager put an arm around him" nonsense. If he wanted to play for us and was happy with the terms we were offering, he would have waited 6 months and signed for us.

I don't believe that Petrie was willing to offer him enough.
Wolves offered him even more to extend his contract I would assume. I also think Petrie wouldt offer him more to turn their offer down. We do have limits.

[blackpoolhibs]

The main object of any football club is to win football matches. How well have we done that under Petrie?

[Phil D. Rolls]

People don't want Petrie out, they want a winning Hibs team. Don't ask them where the money for this will come from, or if we are maybe being a bit quick to hit the panic button (we are 12 points in front of the team below us). They just want change, regardless of no historical precedent for clubs picking up after a board/ manager has been hounded out.

Fair enough, patience has been tested to the limit, and stress does funny things to people. To me, the protestors are like bystanders at a car crash, or a fire, shouting at the people that are attending to it. They mean well, but their inability to articulate what it is they want, and how it can be achieved, means they just shout meaningless statements that merely distract people that have the facts from doing their job.

Like it or not, fans are not nearly as important as they think they are. The only time the owners will listen is when the fans stay away from games.

I am sure it will give the United players a massive boost to know that they are playing a club that is in turmoil. Likewise, the baying voices outside the dressing rooms, will make every Hibs player a nervous wreck before the game starts.

But, that's just the way it is, in a country where everyone can do everyone else's job. Until they actually have to do it.

[hibsmad]

Wolves offered him even more to extend his contract I would assume. I also think Petrie wouldt offer him more to turn their offer down. We do have limits.

I suppose none of us know so there is not too much point debating it. I just have a gut feeling, knowing how Petrie can be with negotiations, that he won't have offered as much as he should have.

Of course we have limits, just like every other club. Again though, I have a feeling that we didn't stretch this limit as far as we should have for Leigh. It's not like he signed for a Premiership club. Wolves won't have offered him fortunes. I think they could afford to offer him more than us but we probably could have gotten close enough if Petrie really wanted to.

Again though, this is all just a gut feeling and not based on any inside knowledge.

[Phil D. Rolls]

I suppose none of us know so there is not too much point debating it. I just have a gut feeling, knowing how Petrie can be with negotiations, that he won't have offered as much as he should have.

Of course we have limits, just like every other club. Again though, I have a feeling that we didn't stretch this limit as far as we should have for Leigh. It's not like he signed for a Premiership club. Wolves won't have offered him fortunes. I think they could afford to offer him more than us but we probably could have gotten close enough if Petrie really wanted to.

Again though, this is all just a gut feeling and not based on any inside knowledge.

But we'll hound him out of the job anyway. I've got a gut feeling there's a lot of empty barrells doing an awful lot of rumbling just now.

[WHUHibs]

Whilst the board have got appointments of the manager wrong on a number of occasions they have done a decent job on managing the debt, selling players, building the ground, building the training centre. They have also given most managers a competive budget to see Hibs sit comfortably in the top 6 of the SPL. Appointing managers is a lottery.

St. Johnstone have done great but won nothing and had no real demands on them. Motherwell have got lucky with McCall but have been into administration and have won nothing. St mirren won the LC but are generally a poor side side. Killie also won the LC but have huge debt and a very unpopular chairman. Dutd and Hearts have had their chairmans cash to spend and won a the SC. Hearts are now on the brink and Utd look as bad as us. Aberdeen have under achieved by even more than Hibs. So appointing good managers is luck but reality as a support we have big demands, but board is not the problem it's the manager.

Sorry but that's rubbish it not just a manager. Do you really believe Rod has allowed managers to manage? Look at Ross county, Inverness, st Johnston all run a tight ship with a much smaller budget and punch above their weight,,hibs on the other hand much bigger club consistently punch below their weight. In connection with Motherwell they have done very well with Leanne Masterton now at the helm and a good manager in Mcall.

With the type of finance , training facilities we should be churning out players to improve the team and sell of needed,,since th golden generation there has been a big gap,,,hopefully Harris, Forster etc might progress.

We need to look at the workings of the club, understand why it's not worked, put in the changes and have a motival chairman with a good finance director and he must ensure that the owner can be challenged. After all managers carry the can but should our chairman be held accountable..

[hibsmad]

But we'll hound him out of the job anyway. I've got a gut feeling there's a lot of empty barrells doing an awful lot of rumbling just now.

I won't

[Phil D. Rolls]

I won't

Fair enough mate, others will.

[Liberal Hibby]

Sorry but that's rubbish it not just a manager. Do you really believe Rod has allowed managers to manage?

Absolutely - to the point of being criticised by fans like yourself for not taking action early enough to get rid of them.

The idea that Petrie somehow interferes with the football side of things is one of those Hibs.net myths - like he took the players side against John Collins or that he could have had Griffiths for £150k in January.

[easty]

Whilst the board have got appointments of the manager wrong on a number of occasions they have done a decent job on managing the debt, selling players, building the ground, building the training centre. They have also given most managers a competive budget to see Hibs sit comfortably in the top 6 of the SPL. Appointing managers is a lottery.

St. Johnstone have done great but won nothing and had no real demands on them. Motherwell have got lucky with McCall but have been into administration and have won nothing. St mirren won the LC but are generally a poor side side. Killie also won the LC but have huge debt and a very unpopular chairman. Dutd and Hearts have had their chairmans cash to spend and won a the SC. Hearts are now on the brink and Utd look as bad as us. Aberdeen have under achieved by even more than Hibs. So appointing good managers is luck but reality as a support we have big demands, but board is not the problem it's the manager.

Good post Lucky, saved me from typing more or less the same thing.

[blackpoolhibs]

The protest in my opinion is more about the board and how they have constantly failed to produce a product on the park that this club deserves.

They have ignored us for too long now, and the straw has broken the camels back at last.

This could be a turning point in our club, i have never known so many people this fed up before?

[Hibercelona]

People don't want Petrie out, they want a winning Hibs team. Don't ask them where the money for this will come from, or if we are maybe being a bit quick to hit the panic button (we are 12 points in front of the team below us). They just want change, regardless of no historical precedent for clubs picking up after a board/ manager has been hounded out.

I've repeated this countless times and will say it again. It's not lack of money that people are complaining about.

Nobody is demanding that more and more money be shoved into the club, they're demanding that the money that is being put into the club is better spent.

The club has had more than enough cash put in over the years, to see us finishing above the likes of St Johnstone, Motherwell and Dundee Utd. (Clubs that have a knack of finishing above us more often than not with most players on under 1K p/w)

If St Johnstone can achieve European football by finishing 3rd and beat a club like Rosenburg with the budget they're on. Imagine what they could do with our budget. That's where we should be!

[WHUHibs]

Absolutely - to the point of being criticised by fans like yourself for not taking action early enough to get rid of them.

The idea that Petrie somehow interferes with the football side of things is one of those Hibs.net myths - like he took the players side against John Collins or that he could have had Griffiths for £150k in January.

Pray tell me how do you know it's a myth?

As chairman does he have control of the club? He doesn't pick the side but controls the way everything is run including the academy,,,picking the managers,,,and of course managing the budgetary controls,,,why have potential mangers with a football pedigree not been successful I.e Collins and Mixu? Why did our AM leave to go back to Ross county and since one a super job with little money? Perhaps jut perhaps he interferes,,,,or do you know different?

[WHUHibs]

The protest in my opinion is more about the board and how they have constantly failed to produce a product on the park that this club deserves.

They have ignored us for too long now, and the straw has broken the camels back at last.

This could be a turning point in our club, i have never known so many people this fed up before?

:top marks

[lucky]

Sorry but that's rubbish it not just a manager. Do you really believe Rod has allowed managers to manage? Look at Ross county, Inverness, st Johnston all run a tight ship with a much smaller budget and punch above their weight,,hibs on the other hand much bigger club consistently punch below their weight. In connection with Motherwell they have done very well with Leanne Masterton now at the helm and a good manager in Mcall.

With the type of finance , training facilities we should be churning out players to improve the team and sell of needed,,since th golden generation there has been a big gap,,,hopefully Harris, Forster etc might progress.

We need to look at the workings of the club, understand why it's not worked, put in the changes and have a motival chairman with a good finance director and he must ensure that the owner can be challenged. After all managers carry the can but should our chairman be held accountable..

The teams you mention have won nothing, yes there playing budget is less but you honestly think that RP has input into how any of our managers manage the clearly you've been on the Russian vodka. The chair should not be a motivational character, they should be a business person. Walter Smith stated he did not have the acumen to be chair of Rangers long term and he was voted the greatest living Ranger. RP needs to get lucky with next appointment, preferably one who plays an attacking style. The board is not the issue its the manager.

[Shields Hibee]

I agree with you Blackpool Hibs, we've had years of underachievement with the current board, an odd cup win ain't going to gloss over that Hibs should be producing teams and performances capable of challenging at the right end of the table season after season & getting trophies. Sadly, they seem to think a cup final every so often yet never won is good enough as it brings money in.

The way things are heading, we could be seeing crowds of well under 6k before long at ER & the chance of attracting new supporters is almost non existent.

[Hibercelona]

The teams you mention have won nothing, yes there playing budget is less but you honestly think that RP has input into how any of our managers manage the clearly you've been on the Russian vodka. The chair should not be a motivational character, they should be a business person. Walter Smith stated he did not have the acumen to be chair of Rangers long term and he was voted the greatest living Ranger. RP needs to get lucky with next appointment, preferably one who plays an attacking style. The board is not the issue its the manager.

It doesn't take "luck" to find a proven manager.

That's our problem as a club. We often talk about trying to "get lucky" then complain about having "no luck". Then we talk about "hope".
"Hopefully we'll get a good manager"
"Hopefully we'll start winning soon"
"Hopefully we'll start finishing above teams that we should"

Luck, hope, luck, hope, luck hope!!

We're luckless and hopeless, and this is exactly why!

Clubs that get lucky are clubs that demand it and earn it. We don't. We just complain about not having any instead.

[WHUHibs]

The teams you mention have won nothing, yes there playing budget is less but you honestly think that RP has input into how any of our managers manage the clearly you've been on the Russian vodka. The chair should not be a motivational character, they should be a business person. Walter Smith stated he did not have the acumen to be chair of Rangers long term and he was voted the greatest living Ranger. RP needs to get lucky with next appointment, preferably one who plays an attacking style. The board is not the issue its the manager.

No vodka,,tee total but thanks for suggesting I'm pie eyed,,,so the clubs I mention have not won anything apart from more matches than us..on less finance? Only Celtic win the league the rest pick up scraps but I for one would like to win more matches,,perhaps you think that the board hold no responsibility..Rod has refused to appoint a CEO after Scott,,source -Me...the problem cleary lies with the board,,,one for not standing up to Rod and Rod for not spending a lot of time at the club,,,

[lucky]

It doesn't take "luck" to find a proven manager.

That's our problem as a club. We often talk about trying to "get lucky" then complain about having "no luck". Then we talk about "hope".
"Hopefully we'll get a good manager"
"Hopefully we'll start winning soon"
"Hopefully we'll start finishing above teams that we should"

Luck, hope, luck, hope, luck hope!!

We're luckless and hopeless, and this is exactly why!

Clubs that get lucky are clubs that demand it and earn it. We don't. We just complain about not having any instead.

Ok so who in the SPFL have got good managers? motherwell, ICT and Aberdeen ?. Butcher McCall and McInnes have been sacked by other clubs. Sometimes a manager fits into a club. It is luck if it works out. Hibs do need a new manager but there is no guarantees that the next one will bring sucess.

[Golden Bear]

The teams you mention have won nothing, yes there playing budget is less but you honestly think that RP has input into how any of our managers manage the clearly you've been on the Russian vodka. The chair should not be a motivational character, they should be a business person. Walter Smith stated he did not have the acumen to be chair of Rangers long term and he was voted the greatest living Ranger. RP needs to get lucky with next appointment, preferably one who plays an attacking style. The board is not the issue its the manager.

I'm in two minds over this one.

Fenlon has to go there is absolutely no doubt about that.

Up until now I've supported both RP and the Board but ultimately the buck has got to stop somewhere and they have got to carry the can for a string of poor Managerial appointments.

[NOLA]

his tache is like the one my father wore

[Hibercelona]

Ok so who in the SPFL have got good managers? motherwell, ICT and Aberdeen ?. Butcher McCall and McInnes have been sacked by other clubs. Sometimes a manager fits into a club. It is luck if it works out. Hibs do need a new manager but there is no guarantees that the next one will bring sucess.

My point is, it's not bad luck that every single manager that comes into Hibs these days, ultimately fails to get the club where it should be.

When Petries still chairman in 10 years time and we've had several more failures managing, are you still going to blame it on a lack of luck?

[Hibercelona]

I'll tell you what was lucky. Just the right manager coming in at just the right time with an up and coming group of skillful, entertaining and enthusiastic players coming through the ranks. (this was before the "state of the art" training centre). I am of course talking about the Mowbray era.

Problem is, a club of our size and a club of our budget should be well beyond relying on "luck" in order to tip the odds in our favour when coming across the likes of St Johnstone, Ross County, Motherwell, Dundee Utd and so on. These clubs should be relying on "luck" against us, not the other way around!

[The Falcon]

Are there any "football chairmen" in Scottish football? The only one I can think of just resigned 'cause he couldn't hack it at a third-tier club.

And the club he was in charge of has just *****ed £22m (and the rest) winning the 3rd division title.

[lucky]

Hibs have made a number of poor managerial appointments, CC, Yogi, Mixu and PF. We need an experienced manager who can handle working at one of the bigger clubs in Scotland. CC is a coach and has failed at every managerial job he has had. Mixu has done ok since learning at Hibs but got the Hibs job too early. Yogi just seemed out his depth, maybe he was to much a Hibee to do the job. But he just could not make changes when things went wrong. He also tried to take us for fools with his "fitba folk know" statement. PF seems a nice guy, but he has been truly awful, he is unable to set his teams up to attack. He has played so many players in the wrong position that it smacks of desperation. None of these managers could handle the Hibs job and that is where the board made the mistake. Other clubs have different demands, Aberdeen are a similar size club to us and have suffered the same level of results as us. Every managerial appointment is a lottery in the SPFL as only one team wins regularly.

[hibee19]

Would somebody do a poll about Rod staying or going? I know there was one a few weeks ago but the mood seems to have changed somewhat.

[Beefster]

The teams you mention have won nothing, yes there playing budget is less but you honestly think that RP has input into how any of our managers manage the clearly you've been on the Russian vodka. The chair should not be a motivational character, they should be a business person. Walter Smith stated he did not have the acumen to be chair of Rangers long term and he was voted the greatest living Ranger. RP needs to get lucky with next appointment, preferably one who plays an attacking style. The board is not the issue its the manager.

You'd be right about the chairman not needing to be a motivator if....

- we had a CEO

- if a CEO, when/if appointed, was given carte blanche (withing parameters) to run the club as he/she sees fit with the Chairman/Board only acting as 'overseers' who didn't micromanage the club.

Neither of those things apply to Hibs or have done since Rodders first became Chairman.

[Hibercelona]

Hibs have made a number of poor managerial appointments, CC, Yogi, Mixu and PF. We need an experienced manager who can handle working at one of the bigger clubs in Scotland. CC is a coach and has failed at every managerial job he has had. Mixu has done ok since learning at Hibs but got the Hibs job too early. Yogi just seemed out his depth, maybe he was to much a Hibee to do the job. But he just could not make changes when things went wrong. He also tried to take us for fools with his "fitba folk know" statement. PF seems a nice guy, but he has been truly awful, he is unable to set his teams up to attack. He has played so many players in the wrong position that it smacks of desperation. None of these managers could handle the Hibs job and that is where the board made the mistake. Other clubs have different demands, Aberdeen are a similar size club to us and have suffered the same level of results as us. Every managerial appointment is a lottery in the SPFL as only one team wins regularly.

If managerial appointments are a lottery, that would mean that player signings are also a lottery, making football results and successes a lottery also.

If football is really such a lottery, then whats the point spending more money than the smaller clubs in the league?

Surely we should just spend the same as them, if it's all just a lottery in the end?

[Caversham Green]

Not I don't. I do however have a better understanding of where this club should be and what the fans expectation are. Something any chairman should be aware of. Something Rod Petrie doesn't seem to have a clue about.



I'm not interested in other clubs, i'm interested in ours. We need someone running the club who at least has a basic understanding of what the fans are looking for from their financial investment. Rod Petrie has failed repeatedly to clearly state what our aims are as a club and what he intends to do in order to get us there. When the pressure amounts, he hides away, because he has no idea what to do.

So it's not a football chairman you're after it's one who does things differently from Petrie, whether he's a shopkeeper, car mechanic or even another "accountant"?

Petrie has been the chairman and CEO of a top-flight football club for about a decade and was finance director for a good few years before that. He's held various posts in the SFA and SPL and is currently vice-chairman of the former. If such a thing as a football chairman exists then Petrie must be a prime example. He's not currently an "accountant" though.

[WHUHibs]

So it's not a football chairman you're after it's one who does things differently from Petrie, whether he's a shopkeeper, car mechanic or even another "accountant"?

Petrie has been the chairman and CEO of a top-flight football club for about a decade and was finance director for a good few years before that. He's held various posts in the SFA and SPL and is currently vice-chairman of the former. If such a thing as a football chairman exists then Petrie must be a prime example. He's not currently an "accountant" though.

Correct but he hasn't replaced the CEO and combines both positions which I feel is a mistake. It's also a mistake to believe he works full time at Hibs due to his other business interests...

[CRAZYHIBBY]

Sold off the best team in years for millions ...then paid out thousands replacing them

[Hibercelona]

So it's not a football chairman you're after it's one who does things differently from Petrie, whether he's a shopkeeper, car mechanic or even another "accountant"?

Petrie has been the chairman and CEO of a top-flight football club for about a decade and was finance director for a good few years before that. He's held various posts in the SFA and SPL and is currently vice-chairman of the former. If such a thing as a football chairman exists then Petrie must be a prime example. He's not currently an "accountant" though.

I don't care what his actual "title" is at the club. He's in a position that he shouldn't be in. He can balance the books, that all fair and well, but he's not a man capable of taking the club forward on the footballing side of things.

Anybody in charge of running a football club should have a clear vision on what the clubs goals are and the steps that will be taken to get the club to where it should be.

Petrie has done a fantastic job on the business side of things, but he's ultimately failing where it matters most to the fans.

As i've stated earlier, I don't want Petrie to leave the club completely. He does a fantastic job with the accounts. But he should have zero say on the footballing side of things. There needs to be a footballing mind in there that can negotiate with Petrie on the funding provided. Then Petrie should leave them to get on with appointing a manager and assisting the manager in any ways possible, without Petries interference.

[Chump]

I'm always intrigued when people post factual statements about how we pay £x,000 per week for players and how our club is in a good financial state etc

Do we actually know the real facts....i.e. do Hibs post transparent information into the public domain clearly breaking down the finances of the club......

Does Rod Petrie actually run our club like a successful business (trading positively) or has transfer fees in the recent past really just papered up the cracks at ER and we're actually in major debt resulting in the penny pinching that people always talk about?!

Interested to know what you know??

[blackpoolhibs]

For all those saying Petrie has done a great job with the finances, i'd like to know just how much he's paid out on paying off managers, and how much we have paid in severance pay for all these duds the failed managers have brought to the club?

Also is Petrie the only person who could have done this job of running the club for STF? Who's to say someone else couldn't have done a better job?

Its STF who has the final say, he's the one who needs to buck his ideas up, but his stubbornness in backing a man who's clearly not been up to getting the right manager in, is more worrying for me.

We are stuck in groundhog day unless STF admits he's got it wrong and changes things at the top.

[Hibercelona]

I'm always intrigued when people post factual statements about how we pay £x,000 per week for players and how our club is in a good financial state etc

Do we actually know the real facts....i.e. do Hibs post transparent information into the public domain clearly breaking down the finances of the club......

Does Rod Petrie actually run our club like a successful business (trading positively) or has transfer fees in the recent past really just papered up the cracks at ER and we're actually in major debt resulting in the penny pinching that people always talk about?!

Interested to know what you know??

I don't really understand your point about the sale of past players "papering over the cracks". The sale of players to keep the balance sheets steady is standard practice for most football clubs, unless you're someone like Barcelona or Chelsea.

The club does release information on income and expenditure. It doesn't go into any great detail (such as individual players wages), but it does ultimately provide the honest overall debt figure for the club.

Our debt to asset ratio is in a very healthy state. Although it has been gradually slipping slightly over the past several years due to poor appointments and product on the park.

We are however, still in a very healthy state financially.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Would somebody do a poll about Rod staying or going? I know there was one a few weeks ago but the mood seems to have changed somewhat.

Sadly, Yam fuds would get a vote too. :cb

[Hibercelona]

Sadly, Yam fuds would get a vote too. :cb

Would they be the ones voting for him to remain in his current position?

[Robinho08]

I'm not sure getting rid of Petrie is the answer. I've argued with other Hibs fans that over the years he has backed the managers with a budget to match any other SPL team outwith the old firm and Hearts.

However, if I had to pick two reasons then:


Not taking compo for allowing CC to leave always sticks in my throat, the boy made it clear he didn't want the job yet Petrie wanted to keep him.

Choice of managers.

[The Falcon]

Sorry but that's rubbish it not just a manager. Do you really believe Rod has allowed managers to manage? Look at Ross county, Inverness, st Johnston all run a tight ship with a much smaller budget and punch above their weight,,hibs on ..

Do you know the wage budget at Ross County or Inverness?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Petrie has done a good job for Hibs over a number of years; not great, just good. His obvious strengths are in negotiation and financial management and up until 2007/8 the club reaped the benefits of his financial prudence and acumen. Some of the deals he did were outstanding. Also think he did an outstanding job in building Easter Road into a stadium we are rightly proud of and befitting our proud footballing heritage. With the windfall, we got from the sale of the golden generation, no one could blame the Hibs Board for also investing in a state of the art training centre.

However, I said many years ago after he oversaw the completion of the infrastructure that Petrie should move aside, or just concentrate on financial consultancy to the business. IMO he is not - and never was - the right man to lead the club once all the brickwork was in place and the last 5 or 6 years has proven this. We are a football business. Everything the club does should be focused on winning football matches. In that regard alone, Petrie's business performance has been truly dire. Not just bad, but desperately bad. His position has been untenable for years, yet he has shamefully hidden behind the sackings of managers that he appointed and behind the apron strings of the club's owner. I do not hold with idea that Petrie no longer gets involved in manager appointments - that is a myth that he has tried to create for this own protection. The first team manager is THE most important employee at any club and to say that the Chairman/CE of the company doesn't sign of that appointment is rubbish.

Hibernian FC is also a prime example of a company that has been run by the same people for far too long. It's unhealthy. It is now a club that thinks it is accountable to no one. Poor or highly selective communications, sees its fans as cash cows, no clear vision, strategic direction or planning, is perceived as arrogant, inefficient and not open to challenge, a culture that tolerates failure on the field and puts emphasis on all the wrong things such as sacking DJs. This all suggests that the Hibs Board - and autocratic Petrie in particular - does not have some of the basic skills to run a football club - and probably knows that. Instead I suspect Petrie concentrates on the finances and the easy day to day decisions of running the company rather than set the standards for the club's employees, the strategic direction and instilling a culture of high performance in everything they do. Even if all this is just perception, it is materially damaging our club and the business.

So, we need someone at the helm of the club that:

1. can challenge our owner.
2. can instil a high performance culture (winning mentality) across the business
3. can pick a decent manager, work with them and sack them when they come up short.
4. is an excellent communicator
5. has empathy for us long suffering fans and sees themselves as one of us
6. has a vision for the club
7. can set short & longer term strategy for the football club, and happily share that with everyone
8. has an "open door" policy and values the fans, manager and players above all others
9. is open to challenge, has an open mind to new ideas & fresh thinking
10. has new ideas and plans to raise new revenue streams for the benefit of the team/manager (other than from Hibs fans)
11. doesn't do everything by the book, prepared to take a business risk
12. can reinstate pride in our club

I don't see Petrie being able to do any of that, so IMHO he should go.

:top marks

Many good points articulated well, IMHO. This man knows his onions :offski:

[KerPlunk]

Correct but he hasn't replaced the CEO and combines both positions which I feel is a mistake. It's also a mistake to believe he works full time at Hibs due to his other business interests...

His other business interests are Farmer's business interests. In many ways, Petrie can't take a pish without Farmer's say so. Check out Roderick McKenzie Petrie's directorships. All these companies operate from the same address. Guess who owns the property at that address ?

I would dare to suggest that Petrie will only leave Hibs the day that Farmer sells up and not before.

Edit to say, before someone else does, that Petrie is also involved with companies who are not based in Edinburgh. :rolleyes:

[Hibercelona]

Do you know the wage budget at Ross County or Inverness?

It's certainly not going to rival ours, is it?

But to give you an idea. Nelson was on £650 a week at Kilmarnock, he's now on several times that with us. I won't provide the exact figure, but it's considerably larger.

[The Falcon]

It's certainly not going to rival ours, is it?



So you dont know?

[Captain Trips]

The protest in my opinion is more about the board and how they have constantly failed to produce a product on the park that this club deserves.

They have ignored us for too long now, and the straw has broken the camels back at last.

This could be a turning point in our club, i have never known so many people this fed up before?

To think it was usually us who where, moaning, negative etc etc :greengrin.

[Hibercelona]

So you dont know?

Yes, I do know.

All you need is the slightest bit of common sense to know that our wage bill is several times higher than the likes of Inverness.

[The Falcon]

Yes, I do know.

All you need is the slightest bit of common sense to know that our wage bill is several times higher than the likes of Inverness.

What about Ross County?

"Several times higher" than Inverness?

[WHUHibs]

Do you know the wage budget at Ross County or Inverness?

Yep based on ratio of turnover

[The Falcon]

Yep based on ratio of turnover

So what's Ross Couny's wage bill ?

[WHUHibs]

What about Ross County?

"Several times higher" than Inverness?

Not sure if you are provoking,,,common sense,,search the Internet and look at the report published by accountants on ratio of turnover,,,guess at the average gates,,,also published and you won't be far wrong,,

[WHUHibs]

So what's Ross Couny's wage bill ?

I'm involved in football related business won't reveal source but I know their turnover ,,but you can check on the Internet..if you are so minded,,but look at the gates,,alo the owner Roy doesn't put his own money in despite his 300 million wealth...

[The Falcon]

I'm involved in football related business won't reveal source but I know their turnover ,,but you can check on the Internet..if you are so minded,,but look at the gates,,alo the owner Roy doesn't put his own money in despite his 300 million wealth...

You said that thay have a "much smaller budget" than Hibs.

You've already told us this much but its now a secret?

[The Falcon]

Not sure if you are provoking,,,common sense,,search the Internet and look at the report published by accountants on ratio of turnover,,,guess at the average gates,,,also published and you won't be far wrong,,

" common sense" and guessing?

Common sense would dictate that you dont spend more on wages than you bring in. Or twice as much on wages than your turnover.:wink:

[WHUHibs]

" common sense" and guessing?

Common sense would dictate that you dont spend more on wages than you bring in. Or twice as much on wages than your turnover.:wink:

:greengrin

[Hibercelona]

" common sense" and guessing?

Common sense would dictate that you dont spend more on wages than you bring in. Or twice as much on wages than your turnover.:wink:

Common sense would also tell you that if a clubs turnover is at least several times greater than that of an other club, it's reasonable to suggest that the club is spending several times the amount on wages as well.

[Kaiser1962]

,,alo the owner Roy doesn't put his own money in despite his 300 million wealth...


Neither did Vlad..................:devil:


Edit; That thud you heard was Roy McGregor's accountant hitting the deck on reading that Roy is worth £300m

[The Falcon]

Common sense would also tell you that if a clubs turnover is at least several times greater than that of an other club, it's reasonable to suggest that the club is spending several times the amount on wages as well.

So whats Ross County's turnover and wages bill?

[sidneyhibbie]

Would somebody do a poll about Rod staying or going? I know there was one a few weeks ago but the mood seems to have changed somewhat.

Good idea RP Has failed us time and time again yet he plays the same card sack the manager the day before the AGM Apologise take the blame and say dont worry it wont happen again :confused: then its Groundhog Day all over again.
And dont worry as i am working for free now:aok: i know i am not the sharpest tack in the pack :hnet:
:not worth

BUT.

[Chump]

I don't really understand your point about the sale of past players "papering over the cracks". The sale of players to keep the balance sheets steady is standard practice for most football clubs, unless you're someone like Barcelona or Chelsea.

The club does release information on income and expenditure. It doesn't go into any great detail (such as individual players wages), but it does ultimately provide the honest overall debt figure for the club.

Our debt to asset ratio is in a very healthy state. Although it has been gradually slipping slightly over the past several years due to poor appointments and product on the park.

We are however, still in a very healthy state financially.

I guess what I'm saying is if Hibs didn't have the money from the sale of the young generation then we'd be in a much unhealthier state.....obvious statement I know but now when we don't have these players to sell then could things come to the surface that have before been suppressed by £million sales?

Are we really a well run club with a healthy sustainable financial strategy - people talk about RP being this excellent businessman but is that really reflected in the club accounts??

I've heard of pretty high debts for the parent company - for any Scottish club that is worrying and if it is a close reflection at Hibs then I'd say we don't have a man in charge who is doing his job well!!

[WHUHibs]

Neither did Vlad..................:devil:


Edit; That thud you heard was Roy McGregor's accountant hitting the deck on reading that Roy is worth £300m

Oops. Turnover....sorry accountant,,,,,,net worth is less :-))

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm always intrigued when people post factual statements about how we pay £x,000 per week for players and how our club is in a good financial state etc

Do we actually know the real facts....i.e. do Hibs post transparent information into the public domain clearly breaking down the finances of the club......

Does Rod Petrie actually run our club like a successful business (trading positively) or has transfer fees in the recent past really just papered up the cracks at ER and we're actually in major debt resulting in the penny pinching that people always talk about?!

Interested to know what you know??

It's all out there in the public domain. Pay your £1, and you'll get all the information that you want regarding turnover and debt.

[147lothian]

A chairman has to be approachable. Havw a repour with the manager, and be transparent. Look at he way Petrie treated Collins, thats why we have problems, someone like that at the top!

[WHUHibs]

So whats Ross County's turnover and wages bill?

Turnover is approx 2.5 million,,,ratio of salary can be found on Internet...now compare that with hibs....

Only Aberdeen and Celtic have higher wage bills from memory...and formerly hearts :greengrin

[The Falcon]

Turnover is approx 2.5 million,,,ratio of salary can be found on Internet...now compare that with hibs....

Only Aberdeen and Celtic have higher wage bills from memory...and formerly hearts :greengrin


Approx?

What seasons that?

[WHUHibs]

Approx?

What seasons that?

Last season, check companies house if you would like clarity

[The Falcon]

Last season, check companies house if you would like clarity

2012-2013? latest accounts for Ross County at companies house were lodged on 4th April 2013 and for the year ended 30th June 2012. I have downloaded them and, so please help me here, I cant see either the turnover or the wage bill listed.

[Twa Cairpets]

You hit the nail on the head! Ask the question why have former managers kept silent after they had contracts terminated,,,why would they need to be silenced? What happened really with JC? Any manager or CEO that comes in will not be able to carry out the job required, why,,,? Well I'm sure we can work it out!

I'd ask you to name more than handful of sacked managers that then go on to bad mouth their previous employer.

Criticism where its fair, but making it seem like the Stasi and evocative language "why would they need to be silenced" is ridiculous.

[The Falcon]

I'd ask you to name more than handful of sacked managers that then go on to bad mouth their previous employer.

Criticism where its fair, but making it seem like the Stasi and evocative language "why would they need to be silenced" is ridiculous.

Get in the queue! :grr:


I'm still waiting on the figures for Ross County. :greengrin

[number 27]

Get in the queue! :grr:


I'm still waiting on the figures for Ross County. :greengrin


Perhaps you could look for them yourself?

Unless you can show differently I'm sure most of us are happy to accept that our wage bill is higher than theirs.

[steakbake]

In fairness to Petrie, he has overseen massive investment in assets that belong to the club. Redevelopments of the ground, East Mains for example count as major assets which belong to the club. This has to an extent, stabilised the business side of the club but it seems to have come at some cost to the footballing side of the club. He has overseen the implementation of some very sound foundations for the club as a business to continue with some stability into the future.

That's all more or less complete now. My question is when the serious work of actually capitalising on these facilities is going to happen. It's all very well having a 21k seater stadium and state of the art training facilities. But if the ground is typically less than half full and the teams we regularly put out underperform and produce eye wateringly bad football (all connected), then it seems that we are very much missing something.

Perhaps now with these projects complete it is time to have a rethink and actually put some of those energies into producing something on the park. Is Petrie the man to do this - I'm not sure. Are the board capable of delivering this? Again, the jury is very much out.

[Speedway]

Sold off the best team in years for millions ...then paid out thousands replacing them

Let's try and stick to facts shall we.

Sold off the best team in years for millions ALL OF WHOM WANTED TO LEAVE THE CLUB and all of whom we acquired for nothing.

So by that logic, we should've spent the same amount (nothing) on the new players. As it was, we paid money for Maka, Kerr and AO'B.


I'm not sure getting rid of Petrie is the answer. I've argued with other Hibs fans that over the years he has backed the managers with a budget to match any other SPL team outwith the old firm and Hearts.

However, if I had to pick two reasons then:


Not taking compo for allowing CC to leave always sticks in my throat, the boy made it clear he didn't want the job yet Petrie wanted to keep him.

Choice of managers.


If we'd have taken the £200,000 for CC, we would have been a couple of weeks from the start of the season with no manager. Petrie wouldn't have been loved for that either.

[DarlingtonHibee]

It's certainly not going to rival ours, is it?

But to give you an idea. Nelson was on £650 a week at Kilmarnock, he's now on several times that with us. I won't provide the exact figure, but it's considerably larger.



You seem to have a wealth of knowledge on football strategy in Scotland , and football contracts.

Can I ask what you do for a living - are you an agent at 22, that would even beat Fergie's boy !

Oh, by the way - I'm still waiting for your shortlist on replacing Rod, and whilst we are on the subject, who do you see replacing STF, because we on Hibs.net are doing our absolute best to slag him off - but know one - not one person has any ideas on where we go after STF.

And don't please say "fan ownership", the Jambo's will soon realise what a lot of bollocks that is....

[HFC 0-7]

Let's try and stick to facts shall we.

Sold off the best team in years for millions ALL OF WHOM WANTED TO LEAVE THE CLUB and all of whom we acquired for nothing.

So by that logic, we should've spent the same amount (nothing) on the new players. As it was, we paid money for Maka, Kerr and AO'B.



If we'd have taken the £200,000 for CC, we would have been a couple of weeks from the start of the season with no manager. Petrie wouldn't have been loved for that either.

I see where you are coming from, but you cant just say that because a player cost us nothing then we should be able to replace him with another players that cost nothing and be in the same position. Logically if you want to replace a player with the same calibre of player then you need to buy someone for the same amount as the one you have just sold or is worth. I think what is being said is we were selling players for millions and replacing them with players that cost thousands or nothing.

We need to operate that way, we are not a big enough club not to. However, I believe the mistake was that we done it too often too quickly and we never re invested enough of the profit back into the replacements.

re your last point, I disagree. I think everyone was wanting shot of calderwood at that time, for 200K and a couple of weeks left for a manager to do something. everyone could see the writing on the wall with calderwood, he didnt want to be at hibs and he was mince, 200K yes please. big error from Petrie there.

I see you noted that all the players wanted to leave. Calderwood wanted to leave as well and we didnt let him go! We gave the players their wish of leaving but not the manager?!?!?!

[silverhibee]

IIRC a deal was done with leigh and it down to Wolves who wouldnt sell.

Is that not tapping up a player.

[silverhibee]

Absolutely - to the point of being criticised by fans like yourself for not taking action early enough to get rid of them.

The idea that Petrie somehow interferes with the football side of things is one of those Hibs.net myths - like he took the players side against John Collins or that he could have had Griffiths for £150k in January.


Who was it that fined Riordan for slating the state of the pitch, manager or chairman.

[Captain Trips]

What Rod did with club a few years ago is great however that doesnt mean we just refer back to what he did as a reason to stay. Rod Petrie has overseen a disasterous last few years and simply cannot get away with it for steadying the ship in the past.

All the good work that is mentioned of Rod is in past when we focus on the last few years it is far from good, RP has provided a budget but not a person to utilise it therefore he has failed.

Well past his time to go.

[The Falcon]

Perhaps you could look for them yourself?

Unless you can show differently I'm sure most of us are happy to accept that our wage bill is higher than theirs.

I have looked. They are not on the accounts downloaded from CoHo, where Russian Hibs said it was. Russian Hibs also said their turnover for last season was £2.5m when the accounts for last season are not due until April 2014. Russian Hibs works in "football related business" and I do not.

Hibercalona also said "yes I do know" and that our wage was "several times" more than other clubs.

I am asking that they evidence this but it does not look like this information is forthcoming. I was told it was in the public domain but I cant find it. I have paid money to get the information but it wasnt there.

So it would appear, in good old Hibs Net fashion, that a claim has been made with no supporting evidence and when questioned the onus is on the person asking to disprove the claim, and not on those making it to prove it.