Resurrection of HOH

[WHUHibs]

Quite a few of the original members are around still, some of which are on hibs.net.

In addition to this we were a movement whom the board feared so much so they had to employ tactics which were at times a little underhand. Whether people agreed with it or not we were an affective protest movement. Questions could be raised that Rod embraced LWT but keeps it at arms length to nullify discontent.

I don't want to say LWT is not working but I'm sure most would agree despite the supports expertise they are not utilised to its maximum. Gogs and the group are fantastic but rather than boycotts etc where a movement could demand and bring about change. Some type of fans ownership or representation on the board would give us a voice. The current non executives might be hibs faithful but they don't not represent a fans movement and if they have balls why not stand up and be counted. Perhaps they do but silence is deafening!!

Change has to happen or mediocrity will continue and blind faith as to stop...

[WHUHibs]

Hijacking a meeting at accountants with press photography on something that should have been private thus scaring off a potential investor. Hiring two pr companies to combat Brian monteith and questioning real fans motives who wanted the best for Hibs, open debate...I'm not going to say everything we did was right but as Hibbies and professional people we wanted to have a voice...HOH was free for everyone to get involved..a great group of like minded hibbies ,,at onetime we had over 3000 members from memory..

[DaveF]

Was there not a bitter split in the HOH camp towards the end or am I dreaming that up?

It's an interesting idea given the longevity of this slump we are in......

[WHUHibs]

Was there not a bitter split in the HOH camp towards the end or am I dreaming that up?

It's an interesting idea given the longevity of this slump we are in......

Not really Dave,,,Brian left to go into politics, Charlie concentrated on his album and song writing,,most of the rest of us had business commitments and when the team started to do well people fell back into normal life. HOH was originally set up to safeguard Hibs future, movement against STF was part of that reason I.e 250 k loan to buy the club, the overseeing the enormous spend on the famous five stand which was ridiculous ..and Rod was seen as a bean counter,,,Rod to be fair has done well in managing costs and time would tell if that was right,,most of us felt their were other options other than Kennedy and Jack Walkers number two was a credible alternative. Sitting where we are today people will argue about the great stadium, super training academy,,how was it paid for,,well did Petrie and co get lucky with the golden generation or was it all own to good book work..for me personally I think we got lucky, some good accounting but we are run by a non existent owner who allows an excellent accountant to run the club. Of course Rod also runs other companies which he buys and sells with other investors...that's his right,,but he is at the helm of a large club that under achieves,,,and as a supporter who goes week in and week out I'm not happy,,,,simply my opinion...

[WHUHibs]

Was there not a bitter split in the HOH camp towards the end or am I dreaming that up?

It's an interesting idea given the longevity of this slump we are in......

If I felt I could get the support of people willing to invest time I would consider doing this again...but it would have to have popular support for credible change.....not a mouthpiece that had no substance,,,if it was to be done it would certainly be a challenge,,first thing to do would be to meet Rod and STF and he would not like that and his PR machine would go into overdrive...I'm up for the challenge,,,after all positive change is needed,,,

[RIP]

If I felt I could get the support of people willing to invest time I would consider doing this again...but it would have to have popular support for credible change.....not a mouthpiece that had no substance,,,if it was to be done it would certainly be a challenge,,first thing to do would be to meet Rod and STF and he would not like that and his PR machine would go into overdrive...I'm up for the challenge,,,after all positive change is needed,,,

Mr S you have a pm

[fatbloke]

What he said:agree: in the OP

[WHUHibs]

Mr S you have a pm

Got it,,,

[WHUHibs]

What he said:agree: in the OP

:wink:

[Pretty Boy]

I've posted this already but feel it's a valid point.

What worries me is that a group like HOH would be painted as a negative group of troublemakers by the club whilst LWT would be used as a pawn in a game and 'marketed' as a positive group willing to work with the club.

I would worry that a support that already looks like it's beginning to fracture would be split completely and that can't be good.

[greenlex]

Personally Ithink LWT has to have a chance to bear fruit. Hw long has it been on the go? Not long enough. These guys are speaking with the custodians of the club regularly. Two games into the league campaign I think a resurrection of HOH is knee jerk. Fenlon in my opinion has to go but there s an argument for more time. His football isn't great and results speak for there selves but do we know what the full remit was regarding he shaping of he club as a whole was for example? I think the drinking culture etc is being turned around if not already done. It's a no from me.

[WHUHibs]

I've posted this already but feel it's a valid point.

What worries me is that a group like HOH would be painted as a negative group of troublemakers by the club whilst LWT would be used as a pawn in a game and 'marketed' as a positive group willing to work with the club.

I would worry that a support that already looks like it's beginning to fracture would be split completely and that can't be good.

Fair point and wouldn't disagree,,,PR machine at ER is quite good at that ,,,have to say that I would not want to dilute the good work Gogs and the rest if the group have done,,

[WHUHibs]

Personally Ithink LWT has to have a chance to bear fruit. Hw long has it been on the go? Not long enough. These guys are speaking with the custodians of the club regularly. Two games into the league campaign I think a resurrection of HOH is knee jerk. Fenlon in my opinion has to go but there s an argument for more time. His football isn't great and results speak for there selves but do we know what the full remit was regarding he shaping of he club as a whole was for example? I think the drinking culture etc is being turned around if not already done. It's a no from me.

I don't thinks its a knee jerk as this malaise has been going on for a long time,,,but it's good to get additional options :agree:

It's good to gather opinions as I'm against a boycott but at the same time things have to change...LWT might be the answer as they are working with custodians ,,,however,,,,,,do the custodians need to change that's a bigger question,,,,

[Jonnyboy]

I don't thinks its a knee jerk as this malaise has been going on for a long time,,,but it's good to get additional options :agree:

It's good to gather opinions as I'm against a boycott but at the same time things have to change...LWT might be the answer as they are working with custodians ,,,however,,,,,,do the custodians need to change that's a bigger question,,,,

Are you not a member of the LWT?

[WHUHibs]

Are you not a member of the LWT?

We are all members of LWT ,,,,just posing a thoughtful question :wink:

[RIP]

LWT was started by supporters seeking a change in the way the club is run.

As the old adage goes better inside the tent pis sing out than outside the tent pis sing in

Of course there is a degree of bull but the management we work with are all dyed in the wool Hibbies who have the best interest of the club in their Hearts. However some aren't engaged and although the Chairman doesn't attend I always feel his presence hanging over every decision. The Commercial team are great though, we've worked on several projects together and there are more to come.

I would love to report that visiting Easter Road emerges you in football but that's the problem IMO. What little football takes place at Hibs is 25 miles away in East Lothian

[Jonnyboy]

We are all members of LWT ,,,,just posing a thoughtful question :wink:

Indeed we are but we're not all on working parties

[oregonhibby]

What is exactly would it's aim be?

If it is simply regime change how do you know it will be any better?

Let us look first at what is positive:

1 A completed home.
2 A training centre we own.
3 A financial structure that is sustainable. The debt is mostly mortgage, although there will be increased debt because of lack of on-field performance and the money spent on changing managers and buying new managers players. The only team outside the old firm spending money on new players - apparently.
4 An owner who wants it to run sustainably.

Now what is negative:

1 A team that performs poorly and below what we expect.
2 A series of managers who have failed to get Hibs playing the way we want and performing better in the league.
3 A team that does not play in the Hibernian style.

Apart from McCartney (nearly 90 years ago), Shaw (Nearly 70 years ago), Turnbull (nearly 40 years ago) most other managers have been, well pretty poor (no doubt John will correct me here). Hibernian style - well if we look over the last 40 years that has been mostly very poor and on the wrong side of a drubbing.

McLeish and Mowbray were short busts of sunlight and lets be frank not as successful as we may imagine - so what would you do in the first 90 days if you were elected new manager. You can't criticise the positives because they are self evident. You could change the football structure? SO does that really need HoH? LWT has at least the Board working with them. If Rod does not pitch up then go and see him. If you want to change the culture then change the people, yes. How will you do that because that is not just the management it is the players too - how much money do you have?

If you want rid of Rod the go and see STF - but don't hold your breath. If you want rid of STF then go along and outline your plans, your finances and your sustainability financially. As we are seeing at Hearts - its not buying it, it is the cash needed to run it - takes 7 years before your house is safe if you transfer it into trust or to your other half (might be 5 no doubt a lawyer out there will correct me).

Then all you have to do is run it and get success - why? Because the fans expect it. There is no hiding place and these guys do it week in week out and take the abuse.

Work with the Board and help them see the light. As you said earlier with HoH, when results got better things broke up a bit. But as any really good organisational change person knows, that is exactly the time to reinforce change and keep the pressure on.

Just my view.

Also if you are already on the inside on a working group with LWT then you need to open up and say exactly what you mean there and not here. Again, just my view.

I am not happy with the result, there again since 1967 there have been longer periods I have been unhappy. I am a Hibby, it all comes with the job description. I posted earlier that the best years are behind us, I still believe that.

Oh for the Scottish Cup!

[jodjam]

Excellent post OH

[greenlex]

I don't thinks its a knee jerk as this malaise has been going on for a long time,,,but it's good to get additional options :agree:

It's good to gather opinions as I'm against a boycott but at the same time things have to change...LWT might be the answer as they are working with custodians ,,,however,,,,,,do the custodians need to change that's a bigger question,,,,
Do you really think there is a malaise at board level? Petrie has gone through managers at a steady rate. If there was a malaise and an acceptance of so called medoicracy then Hughes would still e here.
I think there is a will to progress its the rate of progression and the style of it that's the problem. I don't think Fenlon is the answer but we are now facing a stick of twist situation two games into the season. Fenlon wont
be here after this season barring silverware or changing the football to Brazilian like. Neither are likely but is it financially worth the change? If gates fall it will set us back another five years. I reckon Frnlons got another couple of games and Petrie will have started to talk to successors in any case for next season if not earlier.
I don't think we actually need change at the top but they do need some help.

[Beefster]

Fair point and wouldn't disagree,,,PR machine at ER is quite good at that ,,,have to say that I would not want to dilute the good work Gogs and the rest if the group have done,,

So why not join LWT at their next meeting? I could understand the desire to set up another group if you had engaged the club through LWT and, after trying hard, got frustrated or just gave up but not if you haven't gone down that route.

I presume that you were one of the founders and drivers of HOH from the way you're talking?

[DaveF]

What is exactly would it's aim be?

If it is simply regime change how do you know it will be any better?

Let us look first at what is positive:

1 A completed home.
2 A training centre we own.
3 A financial structure that is sustainable. The debt is mostly mortgage, although there will be increased debt because of lack of on-field performance and the money spent on changing managers and buying new managers players. The only team outside the old firm spending money on new players - apparently.
4 An owner who wants it to run sustainably.

Now what is negative:

1 A team that performs poorly and below what we expect.
2 A series of managers who have failed to get Hibs playing the way we want and performing better in the league.
3 A team that does not play in the Hibernian style.

Apart from McCartney (nearly 90 years ago), Shaw (Nearly 70 years ago), Turnbull (nearly 40 years ago) most other managers have been, well pretty poor (no doubt John will correct me here). Hibernian style - well if we look over the last 40 years that has been mostly very poor and on the wrong side of a drubbing.

McLeish and Mowbray were short busts of sunlight and lets be frank not as successful as we may imagine - so what would you do in the first 90 days if you were elected new manager. You can't criticise the positives because they are self evident. You could change the football structure? SO does that really need HoH? LWT has at least the Board working with them. If Rod does not pitch up then go and see him. If you want to change the culture then change the people, yes. How will you do that because that is not just the management it is the players too - how much money do you have?

If you want rid of Rod the go and see STF - but don't hold your breath. If you want rid of STF then go along and outline your plans, your finances and your sustainability financially. As we are seeing at Hearts - its not buying it, it is the cash needed to run it - takes 7 years before your house is safe if you transfer it into trust or to your other half (might be 5 no doubt a lawyer out there will correct me).

Then all you have to do is run it and get success - why? Because the fans expect it. There is no hiding place and these guys do it week in week out and take the abuse.

Work with the Board and help them see the light. As you said earlier with HoH, when results got better things broke up a bit. But as any really good organisational change person knows, that is exactly the time to reinforce change and keep the pressure on.

Just my view.

Also if you are already on the inside on a working group with LWT then you need to open up and say exactly what you mean there and not here. Again, just my view.

I am not happy with the result, there again since 1967 there have been longer periods I have been unhappy. I am a Hibby, it all comes with the job description. I posted earlier that the best years are behind us, I still believe that.

Oh for the Scottish Cup!

That's a good post, but if the board can't see the miserable football, the apathy in the stands and the slide downwards we are on (again) then the light must be right in their eyes and blinding them.

It's widely acknowledged that RP has done a great job from a business perspective but as a football club we are failing. We are behind the likes of ICT, St Johnstone and Motherwell. If they (the board) can't see it then no amount of working with them is going to help is it?

[WHUHibs]

Do you really think there is a malaise at board level? Petrie has gone through managers at a steady rate. If there was a malaise and an acceptance of so called medoicracy then Hughes would still e here.
I think there is a will to progress its the rate of progression and the style of it that's the problem. I don't think Fenlon is the answer but we are now facing a stick of twist situation two games into the season. Fenlon wont
be here after this season barring silverware or changing the football to Brazilian like. Neither are likely but is it financially worth the change? If gates fall it will set us back another five years. I reckon Frnlons got another couple of games and Petrie will have started to talk to successors in any case for next season if not earlier.
I don't think we actually need change at the top but they do need some help.

Just a point,,malaise probably was a wrong word,,,do you think working with RP who has been instrumental in choosing managers should be blameless and LWT will not be able to change that. I am suggesting ideas of how we can influence the ownership and not just working with the current board. I fail to see how a club of our size with the support, infrastructure, commitment of good fans is still behind clubs such as ICT, Motherwell and so on in year in year out standings and performance. If with our infrastructure on a larger scale should dominate these teams. I was horrified last year, jumping on a plane from holland renting a car getting to Ross County on a cold winters evening with a few hundred hardy hibbies thinking do we deserve better. A small club, with a small stadium but big ambition.

We are a big club with in my view small ambition but then again we are all entitled to an opinion that happens to be mine. Perhaps I am wrong to expect more? Transition in hibs vocabulary is not just one season it's,,,,,,,,every season!

[WHUHibs]

So why not join LWT at their next meeting? I could understand the desire to set up another group if you had engaged the club through LWT and, after trying hard, got frustrated or just gave up but not if you haven't gone down that route.

I presume that you were one of the founders and drivers of HOH from the way you're talking?

Yes I was but that does not cloud my judgement. In the day it was started it was the right thing to do and today perhaps LWT is ....but I have been involved in various ways at the club and yes I am frustrated,,but I'm sure we all are..doesn't mean I won't continue to he where possible,,but is there also another way,,

My frustration is the silence of the non executives who are hibbies,,,should they not be more vocal or is all PR restricted to controlled statements,,I would if I was in their position be far more vocal and communicative...just my opinion..

[WHUHibs]

What is exactly would it's aim be?

If it is simply regime change how do you know it will be any better?

Let us look first at what is positive:

1 A completed home.
2 A training centre we own.
3 A financial structure that is sustainable. The debt is mostly mortgage, although there will be increased debt because of lack of on-field performance and the money spent on changing managers and buying new managers players. The only team outside the old firm spending money on new players - apparently.
4 An owner who wants it to run sustainably.

Now what is negative:

1 A team that performs poorly and below what we expect.
2 A series of managers who have failed to get Hibs playing the way we want and performing better in the league.
3 A team that does not play in the Hibernian style.

Apart from McCartney (nearly 90 years ago), Shaw (Nearly 70 years ago), Turnbull (nearly 40 years ago) most other managers have been, well pretty poor (no doubt John will correct me here). Hibernian style - well if we look over the last 40 years that has been mostly very poor and on the wrong side of a drubbing.

McLeish and Mowbray were short busts of sunlight and lets be frank not as successful as we may imagine - so what would you do in the first 90 days if you were elected new manager. You can't criticise the positives because they are self evident. You could change the football structure? SO does that really need HoH? LWT has at least the Board working with them. If Rod does not pitch up then go and see him. If you want to change the culture then change the people, yes. How will you do that because that is not just the management it is the players too - how much money do you have?

If you want rid of Rod the go and see STF - but don't hold your breath. If you want rid of STF then go along and outline your plans, your finances and your sustainability financially. As we are seeing at Hearts - its not buying it, it is the cash needed to run it - takes 7 years before your house is safe if you transfer it into trust or to your other half (might be 5 no doubt a lawyer out there will correct me).

Then all you have to do is run it and get success - why? Because the fans expect it. There is no hiding place and these guys do it week in week out and take the abuse.

Work with the Board and help them see the light. As you said earlier with HoH, when results got better things broke up a bit. But as any really good organisational change person knows, that is exactly the time to reinforce change and keep the pressure on.

Just my view.

Also if you are already on the inside on a working group with LWT then you need to open up and say exactly what you mean there and not here. Again, just my view.

I am not happy with the result, there again since 1967 there have been longer periods I have been unhappy. I am a Hibby, it all comes with the job description. I posted earlier that the best years are behind us, I still believe that.

Oh for the Scottish Cup!

Being a hibby isn't easy :greengrin

[Gustavo Fring]

something needs to change at easter road . its been painfully obvious for a whie now . it might take something like the revival of HoH before anyone will start to listen up

[chippy]

Great idea to restart an independent action group count me in. My aspirations are for the fans to seriously change the direction of our great club. The only sure way to do this is for us fans to start to move toward fan ownership. This will take time but we could build up a campaign to show our fan base that such a thing is possible and desirable. Who knows maybe the current owners might want to engage as they have surely lost any appetite they may have once had to drive Hibs forward. Maybe a buy out over a few years might interest them because we are told that no one else wants to buy us. Could we envisage 5000 fans paying an initial £500 to £1000 joining fee and then an annual £100 membership fee to say own half of Hibs assuming a full purchase price of £10 million. For that we pick the board. If someone wants on the board they have to have something to offer either cash or business nouse. I think we have a massive residual fan base that would in time come round to a scheme such as this and maybe STF could facilitate the transition. He could get some dough out of it and we get the club back forever. I think fan ownership is the way ahead for Scotland and that a dialogue between all the fan groups across all clubs could result in better reforms of league structures so the fans control the game more.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Great idea to restart an independent action group count me in. My aspirations are for the fans to seriously change the direction of our great club. The only sure way to do this is for us fans to start to move toward fan ownership. This will take time but we could build up a campaign to show our fan base that such a thing is possible and desirable. Who knows maybe the current owners might want to engage as they have surely lost any appetite they may have once had to drive Hibs forward. Maybe a buy out over a few years might interest them because we are told that no one else wants to buy us. Could we envisage 5000 fans paying an initial £500 to £1000 joining fee and then an annual £100 membership fee to say own half of Hibs assuming a full purchase price of £10 million. For that we pick the board. If someone wants on the board they have to have something to offer either cash or business nouse. I think we have a massive residual fan base that would in time come round to a scheme such as this and maybe STF could facilitate the transition. He could get some dough out of it and we get the club back forever. I think fan ownership is the way ahead for Scotland and that a dialogue between all the fan groups across all clubs could result in better reforms of league structures so the fans control the game more.

Fan ownership is an interesting one. Folks will cite how to raise funds to purchase but ongoing is the challenge. I suppose if you don't try you'll never know and perversely perhaps the clubs forced into fan ownership will be ahead of the others in the learning curve.

That said you seem to be looking at the macro level - fans controlling the structure and "the game" (not too sure what controlling the game means tho'?). But what about the micro/club level?

Id imagine The biggest challenges for fan ownership for Hibs would include the transition and putting in place the correct governance/ownership models so decisions can be effectively made.

One thought does strike me - Does having the status quo versus fan ownership give a competitive advantage (ie with the current structure can we entice a better standard of player since income is more stable, guarantors in place?)

Anyway So imagine we get instant fan ownership and fans with expertise onboard (who'll all be in it for the love of Hibs only) we then entice Pat Nevin in a non-exec consultants role he advises us to keep Fenlon? We also get a possibility of key funding from the US but they'd want more influence? The folks we get on board are not as experienced as the current board members they replace or they are better and yet the football side is a let-down as the football gods conspire against us (yet again!).

if the above comes across as as anti that is not my intention I'm open-minded on this. I just feel its important to make informed decisions and its helpful to consider certain scenarios whilst avoiding paralysis by analysis.

[chippy]

Fan ownership is an interesting one. Folks will cite how to raise funds to purchase but ongoing is the challenge. I suppose if you don't try you'll never know and perversely perhaps the clubs forced into fan ownership will be ahead of the others in the learning curve.

That said you seem to be looking at the macro level - fans controlling the structure and "the game" (not too sure what controlling the game means tho'?). But what about the micro/club level?

Id imagine The biggest challenges for fan ownership for Hibs would include the transition and putting in place the correct governance/ownership models so decisions can be effectively made.

One thought does strike me - Does having the status quo versus fan ownership give a competitive advantage (ie with the current structure can we entice a better standard of player since income is more stable, guarantors in place?)

Anyway So imagine we get instant fan ownership and fans with expertise onboard (who'll all be in it for the love of Hibs only) we then entice Pat Nevin in a non-exec consultants role he advises us to keep Fenlon? We also get a possibility of key funding from the US but they'd want more influence? The folks we get on board are not as experienced as the current board members they replace or they are better and yet the football side is a let-down as the football gods conspire against us (yet again!).

if the above comes across as as anti that is not my intention I'm open-minded on this. I just feel its important to make informed decisions and its helpful to consider certain scenarios whilst avoiding paralysis by analysis.

5000 Hibs fans won't elect idiots to run the club- if they are rubbish they get replaced. We are all then involved on the venture. No fat cat salaries or top heavy execs or other staff. Volunteers could do many tasks alongside a slimmed down professional football and managerial staff .
I can't see nor would want 5000 Hibs members selling out to investors once we get our hands on the club. The current regime is stagnating and the only people that can change things are us. I would not be surprised if RP and STF are hoping for a fans buy out - who else would buy us? I hate to say it but it was a smart move by the hearts fans to set up FOH in so doing they now have a parallel structure in place and with promised monies to step in once a cva or liquidation. If we did it we have by dint of our own monies a great infrastructure. We really should own the club anyway there has been no capital injections into Hibs as far as we know from anyone in the last 23 years. At least this way the membership fees would be additional funding.

[Jonnyboy]

What is exactly would it's aim be?

If it is simply regime change how do you know it will be any better?

Let us look first at what is positive:

1 A completed home.
2 A training centre we own.
3 A financial structure that is sustainable. The debt is mostly mortgage, although there will be increased debt because of lack of on-field performance and the money spent on changing managers and buying new managers players. The only team outside the old firm spending money on new players - apparently.
4 An owner who wants it to run sustainably.

Now what is negative:

1 A team that performs poorly and below what we expect.
2 A series of managers who have failed to get Hibs playing the way we want and performing better in the league.
3 A team that does not play in the Hibernian style.

Apart from McCartney (nearly 90 years ago), Shaw (Nearly 70 years ago), Turnbull (nearly 40 years ago) most other managers have been, well pretty poor (no doubt John will correct me here). Hibernian style - well if we look over the last 40 years that has been mostly very poor and on the wrong side of a drubbing.

McLeish and Mowbray were short busts of sunlight and lets be frank not as successful as we may imagine - so what would you do in the first 90 days if you were elected new manager. You can't criticise the positives because they are self evident. You could change the football structure? SO does that really need HoH? LWT has at least the Board working with them. If Rod does not pitch up then go and see him. If you want to change the culture then change the people, yes. How will you do that because that is not just the management it is the players too - how much money do you have?

If you want rid of Rod the go and see STF - but don't hold your breath. If you want rid of STF then go along and outline your plans, your finances and your sustainability financially. As we are seeing at Hearts - its not buying it, it is the cash needed to run it - takes 7 years before your house is safe if you transfer it into trust or to your other half (might be 5 no doubt a lawyer out there will correct me).

Then all you have to do is run it and get success - why? Because the fans expect it. There is no hiding place and these guys do it week in week out and take the abuse.

Work with the Board and help them see the light. As you said earlier with HoH, when results got better things broke up a bit. But as any really good organisational change person knows, that is exactly the time to reinforce change and keep the pressure on.

Just my view.

Also if you are already on the inside on a working group with LWT then you need to open up and say exactly what you mean there and not here. Again, just my view.

I am not happy with the result, there again since 1967 there have been longer periods I have been unhappy. I am a Hibby, it all comes with the job description. I posted earlier that the best years are behind us, I still believe that.

Oh for the Scottish Cup!

No corrections from me :greengrin

Post is excellent from first word to last and those who plan to protest on Saturday would do well to read it and understand what it is they're doing :agree:

[Jonnyboy]

Yes I was but that does not cloud my judgement. In the day it was started it was the right thing to do and today perhaps LWT is ....but I have been involved in various ways at the club and yes I am frustrated,,but I'm sure we all are..doesn't mean I won't continue to he where possible,,but is there also another way,,

My frustration is the silence of the non executives who are hibbies,,,should they not be more vocal or is all PR restricted to controlled statements,,I would if I was in their position be far more vocal and communicative...just my opinion..

No you weren't. You joined as the group was about to implode.

You've been on an LWT working party and now you want to form a protest group.

Why did you give up on LWT? You had the opportunity to say your piece there and speak directly to board members

[Hibby D]

Great idea to restart an independent action group count me in. My aspirations are for the fans to seriously change the direction of our great club. The only sure way to do this is for us fans to start to move toward fan ownership. This will take time but we could build up a campaign to show our fan base that such a thing is possible and desirable. Who knows maybe the current owners might want to engage as they have surely lost any appetite they may have once had to drive Hibs forward. Maybe a buy out over a few years might interest them because we are told that no one else wants to buy us. Could we envisage 5000 fans paying an initial £500 to £1000 joining fee and then an annual £100 membership fee to say own half of Hibs assuming a full purchase price of £10 million. For that we pick the board. If someone wants on the board they have to have something to offer either cash or business nouse. I think we have a massive residual fan base that would in time come round to a scheme such as this and maybe STF could facilitate the transition. He could get some dough out of it and we get the club back forever. I think fan ownership is the way ahead for Scotland and that a dialogue between all the fan groups across all clubs could result in better reforms of league structures so the fans control the game more.

Isn't LWT an "independent action group"?

I'm really struggling to comprehend why we need to use protest as a tool to force change when reps from LWT are already beginning to effect change simply by communicating with the board.

I like the idea of fans involvement, and I'm not adverse to learning more about what fan ownership would entail, but most definitely not by any other means than informed positive dialogue.

[jgl07]

My clearest memory of HoH in the 1990s was many of their leading members jumping up and down because Tom Farmer refused to sell out to Brian Kennedy! We should note what happened to Stockport County after he took them over.

Knee jerk reactions will solve nothing. Look what Hearts ended up like after fan protests against the Pieman opened yje door to Romanov.

[WHUHibs]

No you weren't. You joined as the group was about to implode.

You've been on an LWT working party and now you want to form a protest group.

Why did you give up on LWT? You had the opportunity to say your piece there and speak directly to board members

Did I say I wanted to start a protest group, simply posed the question. You also have no idea of what I do or not do with LWT, if you want to know you can always call me,,,being part of LWT is not exclusive and also not everything that goes on working at Hibs.,,

[matty_f]

Isn't LWT an "independent action group"?

I'm really struggling to comprehend why we need to use protest as a tool to force change when reps from LWT are already beginning to effect change simply by communicating with the board.

I like the idea of fans involvement, and I'm not adverse to learning more about what fan ownership would entail, but most definitely not by any other means than informed positive dialogue.

Totally agree with you here.
In LWT we have a vehicle for ANY Hibs fan to get direct and hands-on input into how the club is run. Since its inception, the LWT group have had challenging and constructive dialogue with the board.
Change is happening, perhaps not at the pace in which we'd like it to, but the changes proposed are long term wins and they are at an early stage.

The platform is there for anyone that wants to have a voice or contribute. IMHO, that is the route to go down rather than a protest for change where there is no broad consensus as to what that change specifically is.

[WHUHibs]

Totally agree with you here.
In LWT we have a vehicle for ANY Hibs fan to get direct and hands-on input into how the club is run. Since its inception, the LWT group have had challenging and constructive dialogue with the board.
Change is happening, perhaps not at the pace in which we'd like it to, but the changes proposed are long term wins and they are at an early stage.

The platform is there for anyone that wants to have a voice or contribute. IMHO, that is the route to go down rather than a protest for change where there is no broad consensus as to what that change specifically is.

Marty, have a you a view on fan ownership? Also LWT is a positive group with interaction and I agree and I know it's not an apologist for the board but are striving for change. However, if Rod is not visible it makes it more challenging!

[GreenCastle]

Totally agree with you here.
In LWT we have a vehicle for ANY Hibs fan to get direct and hands-on input into how the club is run. Since its inception, the LWT group have had challenging and constructive dialogue with the board.
Change is happening, perhaps not at the pace in which we'd like it to, but the changes proposed are long term wins and they are at an early stage.

The platform is there for anyone that wants to have a voice or contribute. IMHO, that is the route to go down rather than a protest for change where there is no broad consensus as to what that change specifically is.

I'm not involved in LWT but have seen bits and pieces on this board about it.

Can you or Jonnyboy explain more about it to me please -

Who leads it ?
How many meetings have taken place?
How often do they take place ?
What's the meeting diary? (next meeting dates?)
Is RP at every meeting?
Which board members have been at each meeting?
Why is change being slow?
What's the long term goal?

Quite a few questions I know - but would help me and others understand the process more :agree:

[matty_f]

I'm not involved in LWT but have seen bits and pieces on this board about it.

Can you or Jonnyboy explain more about it to me please -

Who leads it ? There's not a leader as such. Gogs is the main facilitator though.
How many meetings have taken place? Maybe 15 or so, plus countless meetings between the different working parties.
How often do they take place ? Monthly
What's the meeting diary? (next meeting dates?) Usually 2nd wed of the month
Is RP at every meeting? No, but he does attend some. There is always board representation though.
Which board members have been at each meeting? Most of them.
Why is change being slow? A lot is in progress, there have been some quick wins and other things have had to be prioritised ahead of some of the lwt suggestions and vice versa.
What's the long term goal? To improve all aspects of the football club and to ensure that the support have a valid input into how our club is run, I guess.

Quite a few questions I know - but would help me and others understand the process more :agree:

Hope that helps. If you want to get involved drop Gogs a PM.

[matty_f]

Marty, have a you a view on fan ownership? Also LWT is a positive group with interaction and I agree and I know it's not an apologist for the board but are striving for change. However, if Rod is not visible it makes it more challenging!

I don't know if fan ownership works but I do think fans should be stakeholders in the club, perhaps a percentage holding and representative on the board?

[WHUHibs]

I don't know if fan ownership works but I do think fans should be stakeholders in the club, perhaps a percentage holding and representative on the board?

Perhaps that goal should be something to consider going forward...

[HFC 0-7]

I think people are missing the point about the differences between what lwt is doing and what others are wanting to change via things like protests and bringing back hoh. Lwt is as the name suggests, working together to effect change. Many people don't want to work together with the board, they want them removed! I don't think going to lwt meetings and asking to have Petrie and co removed, questioning the ownership etc will work.

Many people are past the working together stage and want immediate change. I am not saying one or the other is correct or wrong, I am just pointing out the differences between people and why one method may not work to achieve their goals.

[WHUHibs]

I think people are missing the point about the differences between what lwt is doing and what others are wanting to change via things like protests and bringing back hoh. Lwt is as the name suggests, working together to effect change. Many people don't want to work together with the board, they want them removed! I don't think going to lwt meetings and asking to have Petrie and co removed, questioning the ownership etc will work.

Many people are past the working together stage and want immediate change. I am not saying one or the other is correct or wrong, I am just pointing out the differences between people and why one method may not work to achieve their goals.

Think it's a fair point Dave.

LWT is working hard to effect internal change but and provide certain expertise to help the club and therefore keeping costs down. How the fans can encourage the owner to provide an innovative CEO who can drive the club forward is another question.

Removing the board is not an option but changing the structure is and how we go about that is the million dollar question. Not sure what the options are but the club has been stagnating for a while and I'm not sure why Scott with an excellent record prior to Hibs was not successful. Hopefully positive changes can be made through certain channels,,boycotting or protests are not the way forward. Pressure groups combining all under one roof would be better.

[GreenCastle]

Hope that helps. If you want to get involved drop Gogs a PM.

Thanks.

I think HFCDaveA makes a good point and this is probably why people maybe don't want to get involved - they don't see much change even after 15 or so meetings - on the park is what people are wanting to see changes and the players / manager / board who picks the manager don't seem to be delivering - so people want change to the culture - which I think is more than understandable.

"I think people are missing the point about the differences between what lwt is doing and what others are wanting to change via things like protests and bringing back hoh. Lwt is as the name suggests, working together to effect change. Many people don't want to work together with the board, they want them removed! I don't think going to lwt meetings and asking to have Petrie and co removed, questioning the ownership etc will work.

Many people are past the working together stage and want immediate change. I am not saying one or the other is correct or wrong, I am just pointing out the differences between people and why one method may not work to achieve their goals. "

[Beefster]

The Board doesn't need sacked or changed. A strong, competent CEO with the authority and balls to stand up to Rodders needs appointed.

[matty_f]

Thanks.

I think HFCDaveA makes a good point and this is probably why people maybe don't want to get involved - they don't see much change even after 15 or so meetings - on the park is what people are wanting to see changes and the players / manager / board who picks the managerial don't seem to be delivering - so people want change to the culture - which I think is more than understandable.

"I think people are missing the point about the differences between what lwt is doing and what others are wanting to change via things like protests and bringing back hoh. Lwt is as the name suggests, working together to effect change. Many people don't want to work together with the board, they want them removed! I don't think going to lwt meetings and asking to have Petrie and co removed, questioning the ownership etc will work.

Many people are past the working together stage and want immediate change. I am not saying one or the other is correct or wrong, I am just pointing out the differences between people and why one method may not work to achieve their goals. "

I think you'd hope that people would realise that the magnitude of the changes (at least some of them) will not bear overnight results if they are to be done properly and are to be sustainable.

[borstalboy]

I think you'd hope that people would realise that the magnitude of the changes (at least some of them) will not bear overnight results if they are to be done properly and are to be sustainable.

I fully appreciate what your saying and understand where you're coming from with regards to change and it can often have a long drawn out process. However, the beauty of a football club is that it's different to organisations in other sectors. If you aren't getting football played on the park and the supports coming through the turnstiles then all that other stuff is irrelevant.

Surely at a football club, first and foremost must be the product on the Park. That should then set the tone for all youth levels and the way in which we run the club as a whole, from marketing through to signings etc.

Since you answered a previous post regarding what is discussed at these meetings, I wondered if you could confirm whether the matter of how football is played at our club ever comes up? And what responses from the board members you actually receive?

This is in no way a dig at you. I was merely asking the question as you appear to be in the know more so than most.

[Gerard]

Totally agree with you here.
In LWT we have a vehicle for ANY Hibs fan to get direct and hands-on input into how the club is run. Since its inception, the LWT group have had challenging and constructive dialogue with the board.
Change is happening, perhaps not at the pace in which we'd like it to, but the changes proposed are long term wins and they are at an early stage.

The platform is there for anyone that wants to have a voice or contribute. IMHO, that is the route to go down rather than a protest for change where there is no broad consensus as to what that change specifically is.

LWT IMO is the way to go to make things happen at Easter Road. LWT will make a difference in the long term. As I see it we are all part of the Hibernian family, the fans, players, paid staff, non executive directors and executive directors and STF.
LWT has only reached its first year and in that time we have carried out a detailed survey regarding Hibernian. LWT is open to all Hibs fans who want to help the club become better as a football team and to make Hibernian an attractive place to enjoy quality football. We have the opportunity to ask the Hibernian board of directors the questions that need to be asked.
If you have not been to a LWT meeting I urge you to attend one and then make up your mind regarding what we do and how effective we are. I would only ask that if you attend to come to a meeting please let Gogs know who you are. We only want to make sure that Hibs fans attend.
If you come to the meetings you will see that we are an active group who will make a difference.
G

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I think you'd hope that people would realise that the magnitude of the changes (at least some of them) will not bear overnight results if they are to be done properly and are to be sustainable.

Cultural change is a real challenge and its not as easy as flipping a switch. To Pats credit he has shipped out the bad apples and appeared to have begun to instil a new mentality. Perhaps that's sapped energies out of other areas.? However we're talking about a wider change from top to bottom.

The board could perhaps bring on someone with a wealth of change experience and a Hibee perhaps? Well in Brian Houston, the board already appear to have done that as a non-exec. Brian is also tackling NHS Lothian from browsing through the pages of the EEN...

As with many things I feel a little bit communication would go a long way Esp given the fact we've been waiting and waiting and waiting til now...

It's time for the title of "The Bermuda Triangle of Scottish football" to shift on to some other team...

[HFC 0-7]

I think you'd hope that people would realise that the magnitude of the changes (at least some of them) will not bear overnight results if they are to be done properly and are to be sustainable.

I agree, LWT is great for when you have a manager and board in place that is trusted. It means that everyone is connected, suggestions both ways can be made to make things better. In a situation like we have now its because we can't and don't want to work together that is the issue. We want the manager and possibly certain board members removed, if we get our wish then its very important that LWT or similar is in place to make sure the fans are joined up with the new manager / board.

as it stands LWT cannot effect all the changes they want as some of the current people in the roles are unable to make those changes as they don't have the skills or are unwilling.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

LWT IMO is the way to go to make things happen at Easter Road. LWT will make a difference in the long term. As I see it we are all part of the Hibernian family, the fans, players, paid staff, non executive directors and executive directors and STF.
LWT has only reached its first year and in that time we have carried out a detailed survey regarding Hibernian. LWT is open to all Hibs fans who want to hell the club become better as a football team and to make Hibernian an attractive place to enjoy quality football. We have the opportunity to ask the Hibernian board of directors the questions that need to be asked.
If you have not been to a LWT meeting I urge you to attend one and then make up your mind regarding what we do and how effective we are. I would only ask that if you attend to come to a meeting please let Gogs know who you are. We only want to make sure that Hibs fans attend.
If you come to the meetings you will see that we are an active group who will make a difference.
G

Can only echo what Gerard says. I'd urge folks (that can) to attend and see for themselves the folks involved and insights into the ways in which they operate and some of the constraints (esp resourcing!).

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I agree, LWT is great for when you have a manager and board in place that is trusted. It means that everyone is connected, suggestions both ways can be made to make things better. In a situation like we have now its because we can't and don't want to work together that is the issue. We want the manager and possibly certain board members removed, if we get our wish then its very important that LWT or similar is in place to make sure the fans are joined up with the new manager / board.

as it stands LWT cannot effect all the changes they want as some of the current people in the roles are unable to make those changes as they don't have the skills or are unwilling.

Can you explain why the board or members of the board cannot be trusted?
Whilst we can never be complacent we're surely no dealing with Vlad-esque behaviours....

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I agree, LWT is great for when you have a manager and board in place that is trusted. It means that everyone is connected, suggestions both ways can be made to make things better. In a situation like we have now its because we can't and don't want to work together that is the issue. We want the manager and possibly certain board members removed, if we get our wish then its very important that LWT or similar is in place to make sure the fans are joined up with the new manager / board.

as it stands LWT cannot effect all the changes they want as some of the current people in the roles are unable to make those changes as they don't have the skills or are unwilling.

I've asked this before but never had a response but who are these "people" do folks even know the names, role to be able to call the strengths/weaknesses. If not what basis is there for getting rid?

I ask as this in itself is instructive and perhaps with a little bit more communication folks would understand responsibilities and backgrounds.

What grounds would there be for instance in getting rid of the experienced non-execs ? I'd think we'd be hard placed to find better replacements and Hibbies to boot.

If folks are asking supporters to make choices then it should be from an informed position.

[WHUHibs]

The Board doesn't need sacked or changed. A strong, competent CEO with the authority and balls to stand up to Rodders needs appointed.
:top marks

[HFC 0-7]

Can you explain why the board or members of the board cannot be trusted?
Whilst we can never be complacent we're surely no dealing with Vlad-esque behaviours....

Calm down! Manager, do you trust him to turn things around? I think the majority don't.

Petrie, he has overseen many managerial appointments, the last 4 have failed causing poor performances on the pitch, driving fans away and costing us a bomb to pay off and replace their teams. Do you trust him to make another managerial appointment? Many don't.

[HFC 0-7]

[/B]
I've asked this before but never had a response but who are these "people" do folks even know the names, role to be able to call the strengths/weaknesses. If not what basis is there for getting rid?

I ask as this in itself is instructive and perhaps with a little bit more communication folks would understand responsibilities and backgrounds.

What grounds would there be for instance in getting rid of the experienced non-execs ? I'd think we'd be hard placed to find better replacements and Hibbies to boot.

If folks are asking supporters to make choices then it should be from an informed position.

ok doesn't really take a lot of brain power to understand. The person in the manager role at the club, will LWT meetings make him a better manager? Will these meetings make him stop being so defensive? Will these meetings get him the boot? I don't think they will. Petrie, in his role does he seem able to pick the correct manager? I think not and others do as well.

these 2 roles and people are key to the whole thing, if we continue to have a crap manager no amount LWT meetings will change the results or the way the club s heading.

i am not having a dig at LWT, far from it, I think if the correct manager is in place these meetings could effect real change which will benefit greatly.

[oregonhibby]

ok doesn't really take a lot of brain power to understand. The person in the manager role at the club, will LWT meetings make him a better manager? Will these meetings make him stop being so defensive? Will these meetings get him the boot? I don't think they will. Petrie, in his role does he seem able to pick the correct manager? I think not and others do as well.

these 2 roles and people are key to the whole thing, if we continue to have a crap manager no amount LWT meetings will change the results or the way the club s heading.

i am not having a dig at LWT, far from it, I think if the correct manager is in place these meetings could effect real change which will benefit greatly.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you provided a job description, person specification and salary budget for both positions so we can all see what we are looking for.

I would observe that the fans initially were very happy with Yogi and Mixu. Collins seemed to start off ok and it was assumed her was scuppered by RP - although this speculation has never been effectively proven - and JC has not appeared again in management. Calderwood had all the attributes on paper and admittedly it was not the Club's finest hour in his eventual leaving. One common factor though, apart from RP and the Board, was us - demanding that Mixu, Yogi and Calderwood and now Fenlon be removed.

Next we will be deciding what players should play in any given position and any given week - oh I forgot Lewis is taking pelters in another thread which from my point of view is distasteful and embarrassing. I have never known anyone perform better being shouted at or having his ability so publicly destroyed.

If Fenlon does not pick up points soon I believe he will be removed and as I said earlier the circus begins again. I hope he does pick up points and he turns it around because one thing we all need is stability and a reason to cheer and not criticise.

Just a view.

[HFC 0-7]

Perhaps it would be helpful if you provided a job description, person specification and salary budget for both positions so we can all see what we are looking for.

I would observe that the fans initially were very happy with Yogi and Mixu. Collins seemed to start off ok and it was assumed her was scuppered by RP - although this speculation has never been effectively proven - and JC has not appeared again in management. Calderwood had all the attributes on paper and admittedly it was not the Club's finest hour in his eventual leaving. One common factor though, apart from RP and the Board, was us - demanding that Mixu, Yogi and Calderwood and now Fenlon be removed.

Next we will be deciding what players should play in any given position and any given week - oh I forgot Lewis is taking pelters in another thread which from my point of view is distasteful and embarrassing. I have never known anyone perform better being shouted at or having his ability so publicly destroyed.

If Fenlon does not pick up points soon I believe he will be removed and as I said earlier the circus begins again. I hope he does pick up points and he turns it around because one thing we all need is stability and a reason to cheer and not criticise.

Just a view.

Same lines that are trotted out whenever someone says remove petrie or fenlon. 3 of the last 4 managers have failed, otherwise they wouldnt have been sacked. The current manager is also failing. Petrie has been in charge for the last 4 appointments.

Now it seems like you are saying that the fans are as much to blame as Petrie? Who is paid to make these decisions and who pays for someone to make these decisions without getting a say on who that someone is?

regarding your last point, if he doesnt pick up points soon and the circus begins all over again, who is to blame then? The fans or the people that employed the failed manager? You HOPE he turns it around, at what point will hope be lost for you? What will you do then when hope is gone? we as fans dont have to look for suitable candidates for the positions, thats for the owner to decide, thats the responsibility the owner took on when he took control of the club.

For many Hope came and went a long time ago in regards to fenlon turning it around. they are trying to make changes.

The one point I do agree with you is the thread about Lewis, shocking stuff, and i have mentioned that on many of the Lewis threads over the last few months.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Calm down! Manager, do you trust him to turn things around? I think the majority don't.

Petrie, he has overseen many managerial appointments, the last 4 have failed causing poor performances on the pitch, driving fans away and costing us a bomb to pay off and replace their teams. Do you trust him to make another managerial appointment? Many don't.

Im Simply asking a valid question and I'm in my equilibrium that wasn't the case on Sunday however...

So you want Petrie and the manager to go, not the board or would you be happy with Petrie not having a part in the managerial appointments? Or are you just fed up with all and want a total clear out?

As for whether I trust Rod on hiring - I understood he was no longer involved in the process so it's a mute point what I would say is that CC was a catastrophe so something's needs to change. Even if it were Rods job it would be a key part but not the complete picture so if we can beef up on the football/performance that's what I'd be looking for rather than to get rid. Are you saying Rod has no positive attributes?

[Gerard]

Im Simply asking a valid question and I'm in my equilibrium that wasn't the case on Sunday however...

So you want Petrie and the manager to go, not the board or would you be happy with Petrie not having a part in the managerial appointments? Or are you just fed up with all and want a total clear out?

As for whether I trust Rod on hiring - I understood he was no longer involved in the process so it's a mute point what I would say is that CC was a catastrophe so something's needs to change. Even if it were Rods job it would be a key part but not the complete picture so if we can beef up on the football/performance that's what I'd be looking for rather than to get rid. Are you saying Rod has no positive attributes?

I think these are valid points made by the poster VP.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

ok doesn't really take a lot of brain power to understand. The person in the manager role at the club, will LWT meetings make him a better manager? Will these meetings make him stop being so defensive? Will these meetings get him the boot? I don't think they will. Petrie, in his role does he seem able to pick the correct manager? I think not and others do as well.

these 2 roles and people are key to the whole thing, if we continue to have a crap manager no amount LWT meetings will change the results or the way the club s heading.

i am not having a dig at LWT, far from it, I think if the correct manager is in place these meetings could effect real change which will benefit greatly.

Nice.

I agree with you it's imperative that we get the manager right things will take off from there.

What I think needs a little more thought is talk about getting shot of "the board" as few seem to know who they are talking about and what they bring to Hibernian. It's not good enough to talk about Scott Lindsay and Fife Hyland and their pros/cons as they're yesterday's men. From what I've seen I think we have the right kind of people in place for when things take off its just that missing link that needs fixed.

Some of what you talk about probably falls out of the remit with LWT but what I would say is that some of the key questions and topic that have been raised are ones LWT have also raised that's why I think it's better to have dialogue to avoid going over old ground just my personal view- I do understand and respect others rights to have something "independent" from the independent LWT.

[HFC 0-7]

Im Simply asking a valid question and I'm in my equilibrium that wasn't the case on Sunday however...

So you want Petrie and the manager to go, not the board or would you be happy with Petrie not having a part in the managerial appointments? Or are you just fed up with all and want a total clear out?

As for whether I trust Rod on hiring - I understood he was no longer involved in the process so it's a mute point what I would say is that CC was a catastrophe so something's needs to change. Even if it were Rods job it would be a key part but not the complete picture so if we can beef up on the football/performance that's what I'd be looking for rather than to get rid. Are you saying Rod has no positive attributes?

OK, if you read my posts I started off trying to explain why people have their views on LWT and why people have their views on protests, reforming HOH etc. So my posts are mostly generalising what I think why people are looking to protest HOH, LWT etc.

My personal opinion is that fenlon needs to go now. I dont think he knows what he is doing, he has a skewed idea of how the team is playing. I also think the longer he is manager the more fans will walk away and stay away. Like it or not we need every fan.

Petrie, he may not be interviewing etc but he is in charge and he will have a say in who is hired and what it costs. Re the part in bold, 'if we can beef up'? are you kidding? we are terrible just now, how many chances is needed to get someone in place that can 'beef up'? The football performance side of things is the most important part of a football club and its been neglected by a series of bad appointments. No where did I say Rod has no positive attributes so not sure why you are asking if I said it. He has clearly done a good job with the stadium and training facilities, however has it been at a cost to the most important part of the football club? I think there is a good chance of that. Has Petrie done well with the level of debt and the spending on the squad? yes I suppose he has, but, how much money have we lost paying managers off, and replacing a team every season and a half?

First off I want the manager out, he is not good enough. I would like Petrie out as well as I think he has been in charge of so many failed managers and that is unacceptable. we need to tackle the source of the problem. the problem is a series of underachieving managers, what is the source, who is in charge? Petrie. Fans turning their back on the club seems to happen more and more these days, I think we all know or know of some. The series of bad results and bad seasons are effecting the main source of income for the club, attendances, something needs to be done.

[oregonhibby]

Same lines that are trotted out whenever someone says remove petrie or fenlon. 3 of the last 4 managers have failed, otherwise they wouldnt have been sacked. The current manager is also failing. Petrie has been in charge for the last 4 appointments.

Now it seems like you are saying that the fans are as much to blame as Petrie? Who is paid to make these decisions and who pays for someone to make these decisions without getting a say on who that someone is?

regarding your last point, if he doesnt pick up points soon and the circus begins all over again, who is to blame then? The fans or the people that employed the failed manager? You HOPE he turns it around, at what point will hope be lost for you? What will you do then when hope is gone? we as fans dont have to look for suitable candidates for the positions, thats for the owner to decide, thats the responsibility the owner took on when he took control of the club.

For many Hope came and went a long time ago in regards to fenlon turning it around. they are trying to make changes.

The one point I do agree with you is the thread about Lewis, shocking stuff, and i have mentioned that on many of the Lewis threads over the last few months.

And the same lines are trotted out when things go south - sack Petrie and sack the manager.

Hope never dies, if it did then I would have stopped supporting years ago. I will support them now and will continue into the future, until I die.

You are right in saying we do not have to select the manager but we seem to want a big say when they are sacked and seem to be willing to pressure the Board to do so. It is a huge responsibility to make this appointment and get it right. And yes we do carry some of the blame because the manager doesn't get long (albeit Fenlon has had longer than most) and unless as a minimum they play in the Hibernian style (which for more years than most is actually getting beaten) everyone turns against him.

Will he ever turn it around, I don't know but you can just imagine the advert when he does leave.

Come to Easter Road. Manage Hibernian but you wont get long! can't see a top manager risking his reputation to come here.

Glad we agree on Lewis.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I think these are valid points made by the poster VP.

Im not invalidating them G. Just trying to ascertain whether he wants the board or just Manager/Rod out. Obviously I'm lacking in brain power...

[Gerard]

Im not invalidating them G. Just trying to ascertain whether he wants the board or just Manager/Rod out. Obviously I'm lacking in brain power...

To be clear I was referring to the points you made VP. We have been fortunate or lucky to have attended LWT. Given time the fruits of our labour will be seen by the Hibernian family.

[RIP]

Maybe your views on LWT could wait until you read our 1st annual review out next month The sections are likely to be LEADERSHIP, VISION, FOOTBALL PERFORMANCE, COMMERCIAL, MATCHDAY, COMMUNICATIONS

We have had 2 meetings with Pat Fenlon, 1 with Bill Hendry, regular discussions with Brian Houston who runs the academy board and covered playing style, tactics and results in the many Q&A's. A visit to East Mains is -planned. The report will include quotes from across the Hibs family. It is crucial that this is unedited. We need to tell it as it is IMO

[Jonnyboy]

Did I say I wanted to start a protest group, simply posed the question. You also have no idea of what I do or not do with LWT, if you want to know you can always call me,,,being part of LWT is not exclusive and also not everything that goes on working at Hibs.,,

Seems I've struck a nerve

You started a thread proposing that HoH be resurrected. HoH was a protest group.

No need to call you as I'm aware of your contribution to LWT and I'm also aware that you've been given advice to avoid damaging what LWT is trying to achieve.

[HFC 0-7]

Maybe your views on LWT could wait until you read our 1st annual review out next month The sections are likely to be LEADERSHIP, VISION, FOOTBALL PERFORMANCE, COMMERCIAL, MATCHDAY, COMMUNICATIONS

We have had 2 meetings with Pat Fenlon, 1 with Bill Hendry, regular discussions with Brian Houston who runs the academy board and covered playing style, tactics and results in the many Q&A's. A visit to East Mains is -planned. The report will include quotes from across the Hibs family. It is crucial that this is unedited. We need to tell it as it is IMO

Dont think anyone is having a go at LWT, I think its people want an immediate change in manager and I dont think LWT is the vehicle that can make that happen, especially if you are having meetings with the person that most are wanting removed unless it was to tell him to pack his bags. Do you not think LWT will achieve much more if there is a manager there that looks like they can take the club forward?

[Gerard]

Maybe your views on LWT could wait until you read our 1st annual review out next month The sections are likely to be LEADERSHIP, VISION, FOOTBALL PERFORMANCE, COMMERCIAL, MATCHDAY, COMMUNICATIONS

We have had 2 meetings with Pat Fenlon, 1 with Bill Hendry, regular discussions with Brian Houston who runs the academy board and covered playing style, tactics and results in the many Q&A's. A visit to East Mains is -planned. The report will include quotes from across the Hibs family. It is crucial that this is unedited. We need to tell it as it is IMO

As a group we have been busy in our dialogue with the Hibs board. As Gogs has posted there will be a detailed report as a result of LWT with Hibs. It will help the club develop in the areas that it needs to and will be an honest review of want needs to be done.

[WHUHibs]

Seems I've struck a nerve

You started a thread proposing that HoH be resurrected. HoH was a protest group.

No need to call you as I'm aware of your contribution to LWT and I'm also aware that you've been given advice to avoid damaging what LWT is trying to achieve.

No nerve touched and your wrong,,perhaps your are trying to stir something, up to you,,I'm sure you can call Gogs,,,and he will confirm nothing has been said to me,,if you want to make it up,,carry on,,you can always pm me no problem,,nothing to hide.

[Jonnyboy]

No nerve touched and your wrong,,perhaps your are trying to stir something, up to you,,I'm sure you can call Gogs,,,and he will confirm nothing has been said to me,,if you want to make it up,,carry on,,you can always pm me no problem,,nothing to hide.

Nope, just stating facts

[WHUHibs]

Seems I've struck a nerve

You started a thread proposing that HoH be resurrected. HoH was a protest group.

No need to call you as I'm aware of your contribution to LWT and I'm also aware that you've been given advice to avoid damaging what LWT is trying to achieve.

Sorry John I should have also said that I'm very supportive of LWT and they are doing a great job..I've no axe to grind so no need to make it personal on here,,anything you want to say you can call me...

[Jonnyboy]

Sorry John I should have also said that I'm very supportive of LWT and they are doing a great job..I've no axe to grind so no need to make it personal on here,,anything you want to say you can call me...

Not making it personal, just pointing out a few facts

Glad you support LWT and I hope it is successful in all it seeks to do. God knows, it needs to be

[Gerard]

Not making it personal, just pointing out a few facts

Glad you support LWT and I hope it is successful in all it seeks to do. God knows, it needs to be

I have been at most of the LWT meetings. I genuinely believe that this is the forum where all the Hibernian family can work together for the benefit our our club. We are Hibs fans who want to see our club win silverware.
We have only being meeting for a year and like Rome which was not built in a day it will take time to get to the place where we all want to be at.
As mentioned there will be a detailed report that will be presented to LWT very soon. I and my fellow LWT members have a very good. Working relationship with the Hibs board. All we ask is that we are given more time to bring about the changes that will benefit the club and us as fans.
I would ask that people continue to have an open mind about what LWT can do and then you can fairly judge us on what we achieve.

[WHUHibs]

Not making it personal, just pointing out a few facts

Glad you support LWT and I hope it is successful in all it seeks to do. God knows, it needs to be

Just to be clear no one from LWT has warned me off and that is 100% ...and if someone did I would say I have my opinion and I don't need anyone to tell me what to do. On saying that I have no desire and have at no time said LWT is not good and we all want the same betterment of the club we love. How we get there is a matter of opinion but we all have the same goal. I'm with you on the fact the next few weeks will be vital and he LWT can make the difference...let's keep our fingers crossed and also get 3 points on Saturday regardless of changes we want to happen....:wink:

[Jonnyboy]

Just to be clear no one from LWT has warned me off and that is 100% ...and if someone did I would say I have my opinion and I don't need anyone to tell me what to do. On saying that I have no desire and have at no time said LWT is not good and we all want the same betterment of the club we love. How we get there is a matter of opinion but we all have the same goal. I'm with you on the fact the next few weeks will be vital and he LWT can make the difference...let's keep our fingers crossed and also get 3 points on Saturday regardless of changes we want to happen....:wink:

Think your PM and my response ends this debate for you and I now

[MinceAndTatties]

5000 Hibs fans won't elect idiots to run the club- if they are rubbish they get replaced. We are all then involved on the venture. No fat cat salaries or top heavy execs or other staff. Volunteers could do many tasks alongside a slimmed down professional football and managerial staff .


While I agree with the goal of fan ownership, I don't believe that 5000 fans can be guaranteed not to elect idiots. Guys like George Foulkes got elected to Parliament over many years. How many managers and players have been recruited to please the fans and have proved to be less than successful? e.g. Sauzee, Yogi, Collins, Riordan and Sproule 2nd time around. Fans do not always know best. It would make even more imperative a Football Director entrusted with recruitment of coaches and enforcement of a club style and ethos. Still believe it is worth pursuing. I would be prepared to commit a few grand to a buyout fund. I'm sure there are others who would do the same.

Hearts could be there before us in a few months. Let's try to catch up.