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View Full Version : The Fans, the tipping point and the big, big worry



Twa Cairpets
12-08-2013, 11:57 AM
Yesterday was my 100 and something-th straight derby, home and away, stretching back to 1985.
There have been horrible games - most of them in fact - as a result of the result or the performance or both.

What hit me yesterday, for the only time, was the collective mood of disbelief that we could be let down, yet again, in such circumstances. Often after conceding, you get a fight back, yesterday it had communally gone. The guys at Tynie are, its fair to say, die-hards. Not the only die-hards, but representative of them. When the soul is sucked out of that set of fans, then that's where there is real, deep trouble. Regardless of the manager, the players, the board, the fans ARE the club and I went yesterday out of habit, leaving a much more enjoyable youth football event. Next time I probably wont, and the mere thought of that would have been impossible 5 years ago.

The big worry must be to the Board, STF, whoever,that when people like me - and others on the board who are generally supportive, not knee-jerk and realistic in expectation - have been booted squarely in the kahoonas one time too many then we'll simply stop going, quietly, and do things that aren't so masochistic.

There was a phrase about football I heard I think from an Irvine Welsh book is that "it isn't the losing, it's the hope that kills you". The hope is also what makes football, usually, so exciting, but when when even that is eroded to the point of negligibility, then it becomes very hard to keep the passion.

I want something to change to make it great fun again - I don't mind losing - that'll happen, but losing without fun, passion, excitement, interest? Well, that's heart breaking and it puts the future of the club at risk of death by indifference.

fatbloke
12-08-2013, 12:06 PM
Yesterday was my 100 and something-th straight derby, home and away, stretching back to 1985.
There have been horrible games - most of them in fact - as a result of the result or the performance or both.

What hit me yesterday, for the only time, was the collective mood of disbelief that we could be let down, yet again, in such circumstances. Often after conceding, you get a fight back, yesterday it had communally gone. The guys at Tynie are, its fair to say, die-hards. Not the only die-hards, but representative of them. When the soul is sucked out of that set of fans, then that's where there is real, deep trouble. Regardless of the manager, the players, the board, the fans ARE the club and I went yesterday out of habit, leaving a much more enjoyable youth football event. Next time I probably wont, and the mere thought of that would have been impossible 5 years ago.

The big worry must be to the Board, STF, whoever,that when people like me - and others on the board who are generally supportive, not knee-jerk and realistic in expectation - have been booted squarely in the kahoonas one time too many then we'll simply stop going, quietly, and do things that aren't so masochistic.

There was a phrase about football I heard I think from an Irvine Welsh book is that "it isn't the losing, it's the hope that kills you". The hope is also what makes football, usually, so exciting, but when when even that is eroded to the point of negligibility, then it becomes very hard to keep the passion.

I want something to change to make it great fun again - I don't mind losing - that'll happen, but losing without fun, passion, excitement, interest? Well, that's heart breaking and it puts the future of the club at risk of death by indifference.

What he said:greengrin

S4uzee
12-08-2013, 12:06 PM
Yesterday was my 100 and something-th straight derby, home and away, stretching back to 1985.
There have been horrible games - most of them in fact - as a result of the result or the performance or both.

What hit me yesterday, for the only time, was the collective mood of disbelief that we could be let down, yet again, in such circumstances. Often after conceding, you get a fight back, yesterday it had communally gone. The guys at Tynie are, its fair to say, die-hards. Not the only die-hards, but representative of them. When the soul is sucked out of that set of fans, then that's where there is real, deep trouble. Regardless of the manager, the players, the board, the fans ARE the club and I went yesterday out of habit, leaving a much more enjoyable youth football event. Next time I probably wont, and the mere thought of that would have been impossible 5 years ago.

The big worry must be to the Board, STF, whoever,that when people like me - and others on the board who are generally supportive, not knee-jerk and realistic in expectation - have been booted squarely in the kahoonas one time too many then we'll simply stop going, quietly, and do things that aren't so masochistic.

There was a phrase about football I heard I think from an Irvine Welsh book is that "it isn't the losing, it's the hope that kills you". The hope is also what makes football, usually, so exciting, but when when even that is eroded to the point of negligibility, then it becomes very hard to keep the passion.

I want something to change to make it great fun again - I don't mind losing - that'll happen, but losing without fun, passion, excitement, interest? Well, that's heart breaking and it puts the future of the club at risk of death by indifference.
Good post. I always knew there was a chance we could get beat yesterday but deep down felt that the fans couldn't be let down again particularly the contrasting situations.

I go to tynecastle regularly and the 2-1 at the end of last season was the only one I've missed since 2005 but apart from last season can anyone tell me the last time hibs scored at tynecastle?

Pedantic_Hibee
12-08-2013, 12:09 PM
Yesterday was the most confident I've ever been about beating Hearts at Tynie. Not so much because we are any great shakes, but because they are hopeless.

For yesterday's result alone, Fenlon has to go and someone needs to walk into that boardroom and send tables and chairs flying.

bingo70
12-08-2013, 12:15 PM
Yesterday was my 100 and something-th straight derby, home and away, stretching back to 1985.
There have been horrible games - most of them in fact - as a result of the result or the performance or both.

What hit me yesterday, for the only time, was the collective mood of disbelief that we could be let down, yet again, in such circumstances. Often after conceding, you get a fight back, yesterday it had communally gone. The guys at Tynie are, its fair to say, die-hards. Not the only die-hards, but representative of them. When the soul is sucked out of that set of fans, then that's where there is real, deep trouble. Regardless of the manager, the players, the board, the fans ARE the club and I went yesterday out of habit, leaving a much more enjoyable youth football event. Next time I probably wont, and the mere thought of that would have been impossible 5 years ago.

The big worry must be to the Board, STF, whoever,that when people like me - and others on the board who are generally supportive, not knee-jerk and realistic in expectation - have been booted squarely in the kahoonas one time too many then we'll simply stop going, quietly, and do things that aren't so masochistic.

There was a phrase about football I heard I think from an Irvine Welsh book is that "it isn't the losing, it's the hope that kills you". The hope is also what makes football, usually, so exciting, but when when even that is eroded to the point of negligibility, then it becomes very hard to keep the passion.

I want something to change to make it great fun again - I don't mind losing - that'll happen, but losing without fun, passion, excitement, interest? Well, that's heart breaking and it puts the future of the club at risk of death by indifference.

Good post, i don't really care any more TBH and that's something i thought i'd never say as i used to be absolutely hibs daft, going to all games home and away.

I was putting it down to 'growing up' and the birth of my son so got other priorities but maybe you're right, maybe i've just had my footballing life sucked out of me due to being kicked in the balls one time too many.

I'd absolutely love it for a new manager to come in and give me my hibs mojo back cos i miss it and when i start taking the wee man to the games i don't want to be apologising to him for it.

Pretty Boy
12-08-2013, 12:19 PM
Apathy will kill a club far quicker than anger.

Hibs have allowed this situation to develop and they need to sort it. The fans can't be expected to take responsibility, or the blame, any more.

HibbySpurs
12-08-2013, 12:20 PM
Good post, i don't really care any more TBH and that's something i thought i'd never say as i used to be absolutely hibs daft, going to all games home and away.

I was putting it down to 'growing up' and the birth of my son so got other priorities but maybe you're right, maybe i've just had my footballing life sucked out of me due to being kicked in the balls one time too many.

I'd absolutely love it for a new manager to come in and give me my hibs mojo back cos i miss it and when i start taking the wee man to the games i don't want to be apologising to him for it.

:agree:You descirbe my situation down to a tee and I'm sure there are many more like us....

However, I do care and thats what makes it so heart breaking....

Hibernia&Alba
12-08-2013, 12:21 PM
I think you make a good point at about hope, TC. It's hope that sustains football fans during difficult times, and when it goes there's deep trouble. It's the job of those running the club to demonstrate the leadership required to uphold morale, for, as you rightly say, if a critical mass of supporters walk away, a club must downsize, creating the possibility of a downward spiral of lowered expectations and further downsizing. The good thing about football is the capacity of the collective mood to change very quickly. A few wins and good performances and the hope returns, though sometimes that hope proves short term and unfounded. The fans need to feel included in decision making; to feel they're listened to. They need to feel there is a plan at the top for the future. They need to feel that the big money they spend to watch their team in the modern era isn't just taken for granted. There are a number of factors that lead to disillusionment, but the biggest one of course is the team on the pitch. The board appoint the manager, and far too many times the Hibs board have gotten it wrong. We need competent, inspiring leadership from the very top.

Hibercelona
12-08-2013, 12:27 PM
All we had to do yesterday was keep the ball on the ground. It's the one thing we had to do and we failed miserably at it.

We set out to fail and that's the most miserable thing about all of this.

Fife-Hibee
12-08-2013, 12:34 PM
Lobbing the ball to the middle of nowhere for most of the game against a bunch of bairns WTF !!! Theres no excuse for it. F...ing awful !!

adhibs
12-08-2013, 12:35 PM
Just look at killie and the crowds they get. Our boards sending our club the same way

ehf
12-08-2013, 12:37 PM
Apathy will kill a club far quicker than anger.

Hibs have allowed this situation to develop and they need to sort it. The fans can't be expected to take responsibility, or the blame, any more.

:agree: Noticeable how few young people were in our end at the PBS yesterday; vast majority seemed to be thirties and older.

Just_Jimmy
12-08-2013, 12:38 PM
I said to my mate their goal was coming, it's happen so many times. As soon as they scored I knew we were beat. We can't keep a clean sheet and who knows where our next goal is coming from?

I'm 27 and have a season ticket, I go all home games and a fair few away games but TBH I've reached a point where I'm really wondering what the point is. I've given everything I have to Hibs since I was about 10, financially, emotionally, time wise. So far they have given me very little back.

That 2007 cup win is starting to look like a pretty **** return.

Between now and the end of the season there will need to be a MASSIVE change in fortune and direction from Hibs or I won't renew and I doubt very much if I will be so tied to the club so easy.

Sad sad times.

Twa Cairpets
12-08-2013, 12:39 PM
All we had to do yesterday was keep the ball on the ground. It's the one thing we had to do and we failed miserably at it.

We set out to fail and that's the most miserable thing about all of this.

No, that's really not the most miserable thing at all. You're missing the point entirely. What happened on the pitch in terms of tactics, playing style is remediable.

Failing to rekindle the passion of fans to motivate them to come back to and stay with the club is the most miserable thing. The incredible behaviour of Hibbies at the end of the cup final coupled with the imminent death of Hearts was an astonishing opportunity for Hibs to take a massive step forward. Instead we start the season with the dampest of damp squibs, with little passion and no belief.

A new manager will inevitably come in. The question is how many people will give a damn about what his team does on the pitch.

The feeling of fans saying yesterday in the last 20 minutes of "f*** off Hibs I don't need this" was palpable, at least to me. Anger would have been better but the air of resignation and certain knowledge that we wouldn't get back into the game was bizarre, and not in a good way.

number 27
12-08-2013, 01:30 PM
No, that's really not the most miserable thing at all. You're missing the point entirely. What happened on the pitch in terms of tactics, playing style is remediable.

Failing to rekindle the passion of fans to motivate them to come back to and stay with the club is the most miserable thing. The incredible behaviour of Hibbies at the end of the cup final coupled with the imminent death of Hearts was an astonishing opportunity for Hibs to take a massive step forward. Instead we start the season with the dampest of damp squibs, with little passion and no belief.

A new manager will inevitably come in. The question is how many people will give a damn about what his team does on the pitch.

The feeling of fans saying yesterday in the last 20 minutes of "f*** off Hibs I don't need this" was palpable, at least to me. Anger would have been better but the air of resignation and certain knowledge that we wouldn't get back into the game was bizarre, and not in a good way.


That's absolutely bang on.

I buy a season ticket in the knowledge that I will miss 3 or 4 games a season. Next week will be the first time I miss one without having another commitment. I simply cant stomach it any more and right now I cant imagine when I will ever want to go back.

GreenCastle
12-08-2013, 02:00 PM
Yesterday was my 100 and something-th straight derby, home and away, stretching back to 1985.
There have been horrible games - most of them in fact - as a result of the result or the performance or both.

What hit me yesterday, for the only time, was the collective mood of disbelief that we could be let down, yet again, in such circumstances. Often after conceding, you get a fight back, yesterday it had communally gone. The guys at Tynie are, its fair to say, die-hards. Not the only die-hards, but representative of them. When the soul is sucked out of that set of fans, then that's where there is real, deep trouble. Regardless of the manager, the players, the board, the fans ARE the club and I went yesterday out of habit, leaving a much more enjoyable youth football event. Next time I probably wont, and the mere thought of that would have been impossible 5 years ago.

The big worry must be to the Board, STF, whoever,that when people like me - and others on the board who are generally supportive, not knee-jerk and realistic in expectation - have been booted squarely in the kahoonas one time too many then we'll simply stop going, quietly, and do things that aren't so masochistic.

There was a phrase about football I heard I think from an Irvine Welsh book is that "it isn't the losing, it's the hope that kills you". The hope is also what makes football, usually, so exciting, but when when even that is eroded to the point of negligibility, then it becomes very hard to keep the passion.

I want something to change to make it great fun again - I don't mind losing - that'll happen, but losing without fun, passion, excitement, interest? Well, that's heart breaking and it puts the future of the club at risk of death by indifference.

Good post and something has to change - as a team we have become so worried about losing we have forgotten what it's like to go out and play - have fun!

No wonder players come here and suffer / don't reach full potential as they are often restricted by tactics that are so outdated.

No co-incidence the better times with Mowbray and Collins we attacked and produced creative players which brought the fans along.

SkintHibby
12-08-2013, 02:37 PM
I stopped going after Mowbray to be honest.

Hibs are not going anywhere (and haven't been for a while) and I find it all tedious now.

Problem for me is, you can take the boy out of ER but you can't take the Hibby out the boy!

Boyle89
12-08-2013, 02:57 PM
I'm feeling just like I felt under cc. I'm back to not really caring anymore. It's beyond a joke that so many fans feel this way. The board MUST be able to see this!!

Islington Hibs
12-08-2013, 02:59 PM
Great posts here and STF better be aware or big losses will result. I think they have really done it this time. Sure once A Hibby and all that but after so long being second best to a financially charged Hearts this was the time to get even and up them in their box. This spineless bunch of losers failed and failed with a whimper. It is one spectacular failure too many I suspect.

Sure if performances improve crowds will drift back but I think we are looking at 6/7k gates at best (possibly less) until there are genuine signs of optimism. That means debts piling up and more cuts. The 8k season ticket sales are flattered by cup final tickets and with no chance of selling out the incentive to renew will collapse. A real disaster and I suspect the Board will be pretty shocked when they see just what impact this has had on the gate.

Captain Trips
12-08-2013, 03:03 PM
On tipping points, my point came under PF just before Hearts final and I got stick big time now some of those people are wanting same as me so they have reached theirs and what is it they want? The same as I did the best for Hibs.

southern hibby
12-08-2013, 03:13 PM
That's absolutely bang on.

I buy a season ticket in the knowledge that I will miss 3 or 4 games a season. Next week will be the first time I miss one without having another commitment. I simply cant stomach it any more and right now I cant imagine when I will ever want to go back.

This sums it up for me. I really don't see the point going and I've travelled from all over just to watch Hibs. Travelled back from the Falkland Islands just for a home draw against Dunfermline. Flew back from the Gulf 3 times to watch Hibs and I can't be bothered going to Easter Road from Sighthill. I love my team with every fibre of my being however Apathy is setting in and the board need to address it immediately.

Is it too much to ask for a team that's well balanced and can compete, pass the ball for more than 3 or 4 passes and look interested. GGTTH

erin go bragh
12-08-2013, 03:49 PM
Good post. I always knew there was a chance we could get beat yesterday but deep down felt that the fans couldn't be let down again particularly the contrasting situations.

I go to tynecastle regularly and the 2-1 at the end of last season was the only one I've missed since 2005 but apart from last season can anyone tell me the last time hibs scored at tynecastle?
Deek 2009

Ggtth

Saorsa
12-08-2013, 03:57 PM
Two excellent posts TC :top marks Think they will sum up the feelings of a lot of fans. I still go out of habit but I'm struggling tae think of the last time I really enjoyed it, I used tae love it but I've had that feeling drained out of me now. The day out with the lads and the beer is still great, the 90 mins in between is now (and has been for a long time) a chore, nae mair, nae less.

The Gorf
12-08-2013, 04:03 PM
Lobbing the ball to the middle of nowhere for most of the game against a bunch of bairns WTF !!! Theres no excuse for it. F...ing awful !!

Im not a twitter fan but has anyone who follows the Hibs players on this site noticed any apologies or are they keeping their heads in the sand as well.:confused:

Spike Mandela
12-08-2013, 04:07 PM
:agree: When you have a season ticket like I have but still cannae be arsed going then you know there is a big problem. Went yesterday as it was the first chance to see the team this season for me and I enjoy the atmosphere of derbies at Tynie. I can't make a home game now till the end of the month but truly think I just won't bother going. Apart from pre match drinks the match day experience at ER just now is dire.

Pretty Boy
12-08-2013, 04:08 PM
Im not a twitter fan but has anyone who follows the Hibs players on this site noticed any apologies or are they keeping their heads in the sand as well.:confused:

Rowan Vine was watching Deal or No Deal earlier and discussing with Craig Beattie.

Obviously a long hard day at the office.

lugz
12-08-2013, 04:08 PM
Im not a twitter fan but has anyone who follows the Hibs players on this site noticed any apologies or are they keeping their heads in the sand as well.:confused:

Definitely no apologies, only the young lads talking saying they don't know why they don't get a chance.

Crazyhorse
12-08-2013, 04:08 PM
This sums it up for me. I really don't see the point going and I've travelled from all over just to watch Hibs. Travelled back from the Falkland Islands just for a home draw against Dunfermline. Flew back from the Gulf 3 times to watch Hibs and I can't be bothered going to Easter Road from Sighthill. I love my team with every fibre of my being however Apathy is setting in and the board need to address it immediately.

Is it too much to ask for a team that's well balanced and can compete, pass the ball for more than 3 or 4 passes and look interested. GGTTH

Never travelled as far as you mate but I try to go on the pre-season tours etc and I know just how you feel. Nowadays it costs me a couple of hundred quid to fly over for a game and I'm not spending another penny on Hibs until that whole shower ***** have been cleaned out of my club. Well it used to feel like my club... but I'm ashamed of the lot of them management, board, players...

Springbank
12-08-2013, 04:13 PM
Yesterday was the most confident I've ever been about beating Hearts at Tynie. Not so much because we are any great shakes, but because they are hopeless.

For yesterday's result alone, Fenlon has to go and someone needs to walk into that boardroom and send tables and chairs flying.

Fenlon should have written his resignation as a football man after the national humiliation of Malmo.

Anyone who stays on after that sends out the message in capital letters THIS IS ACCEPTABLE AT EASTER ROAD

And, if Rod Petrie is looking in, it is not.

But keeping Fenlon on tells the world and the players that we're happy to be shxte

Well, I'm not going back while that money grabbing wee manager remains.

GTF Fenlon, your pride is gone, youre constantly humiliated, constantly timid and defensive, and the only thing you can be sticking around for is the dosh.

Do one mate, youre nowhere near welcome anymore

Sunny1875
12-08-2013, 04:18 PM
Good post, i don't really care any more TBH and that's something i thought i'd never say as i used to be absolutely hibs daft, going to all games home and away.

I was putting it down to 'growing up' and the birth of my son so got other priorities but maybe you're right, maybe i've just had my footballing life sucked out of me due to being kicked in the balls one time too many.

I'd absolutely love it for a new manager to come in and give me my hibs mojo back cos i miss it and when i start taking the wee man to the games i don't want to be apologising to him for it.


Good post, I'm probably just a couple of years further down the line, I used to go Home and Away was a season ticket holder , but my kids came along and i found that there was other things to spend my money on. I caught occasional games for around 7 years. then have started going to games when i can and taking the kids along.
I was embarrassed yesterday when i take them to their first away derby and had to apologise for the non football on display. On reflection my Kids could seem to be much older than they actually are when watching the Malmo game my 11 year old turned to me and said 'Dad this is gonna be a long season' how long before he does not want to go to games ?

weonlywon6-2
12-08-2013, 04:21 PM
Yesterday was the most confident I've ever been about beating Hearts at Tynie. Not so much because we are any great shakes, but because they are hopeless.

For yesterday's result alone, Fenlon has to go and someone needs to walk into that boardroom and send tables and chairs flying.

Im with you on this one.hearts are terrible yet we were worse yesterday.i cant think of such a useless hibs team for so many years.
Sadly we, for some reason are becoming to accept poor performances as the norm.

weonlywon6-2
12-08-2013, 04:35 PM
Yesterday was the most confident I've ever been about beating Hearts at Tynie. Not so much because we are any great shakes, but because they are hopeless.

For yesterday's result alone, Fenlon has to go and someone needs to walk into that boardroom and send tables and chairs flying.

Im with you on this one.hearts are terrible yet we were worse yesterday.i cant think of such a useless hibs team for so many years.
Sadly we, for some reason are becoming to accept poor performances as the norm.

Twa Cairpets
12-08-2013, 04:40 PM
Fenlon should have written his resignation as a football man after the national humiliation of Malmo.

Anyone who stays on after that sends out the message in capital letters THIS IS ACCEPTABLE AT EASTER ROAD

And, if Rod Petrie is looking in, it is not.

But keeping Fenlon on tells the world and the players that we're happy to be shxte

Well, I'm not going back while that money grabbing wee manager remains.

GTF Fenlon, your pride is gone, youre constantly humiliated, constantly timid and defensive, and the only thing you can be sticking around for is the dosh.

Do one mate, youre nowhere near welcome anymore

I understand the anger, but this isn't what my post is about, particularly, (Fenlon I mean). Fenlon will go, if not now then later. Then what. Someone else will come in. I used to put it down to getting older and more placid, but it isn't just that, I dont think. I love being a Hibs fan, and if a jambo or hun or Tim criticises them I'll defend us passionately and (probably) illogically, as they're my team. But actually, they're not.

With the exception of Hanlon and Stevenson, there's no-one in the team who are really, truly through the ranks. And its not as if they're the fans favourites is it? How many players have we gone through in the last 5 years? How many young boys have actually made it in the game. Tiny numbers, and it means that the link between the club and the players goes. its not the players fault - they're doing a job, but I genuinely struggle to think of what the team was a year ago, or two years ago. They've come in, largely flattered to deceive, then left, leaving narey a mark.

One Sparky doesn't make a club.

I don't know what the answer is. Change will excite most, if only through relief and the rekindling of interest, but the Club - Rod, the board - STF, whoever is really in charge needs to ask themselves some very, very soul searching questions.

This is *****.

Twa Cairpets
12-08-2013, 04:41 PM
Im with you on this one.hearts are terrible yet we were worse yesterday.i cant think of such a useless hibs team for so many years.
Sadly we, for some reason are becoming to accept poor performances as the norm.
Last year? The year before?

PeeJay
12-08-2013, 04:44 PM
I want something to change to make it great fun again - I don't mind losing - that'll happen, but losing without fun, passion, excitement, interest? Well, that's heart breaking and it puts the future of the club at risk of death by indifference.

While a good post, I personally would take issue with the bit in bold. I can see what you are getting at with the passion, excitement and the manner of losing, but a club that "accepts losing" ... well, it's not for me. I'm too far away for this all to really bother me anymore (almost no-one here in Berlin give a toss about Hibs/Hearts or Scottish football) - I used to be at all the games for years on end, so I can understand your general mood. I just feel this "not being bothered about losing" is a continuation of a thread in our club's history stretching all the way back to Turnbull's team and before to Shankly's excellent team as well, I guess. Cropley said that was something missing at ER and something he learnt when he went down to Arsenal from Alan Ball, in particular: the winner's mentality - losing was not acceptable! It's a lesson we really have to get around to learning, if we are to progress as a club, I feel. The passion, excitement and interest will then follow on.

Viva_Palmeiras
12-08-2013, 05:46 PM
While a good post, I personally would take issue with the bit in bold. I can see what you are getting at with the passion, excitement and the manner of losing, but a club that "accepts losing" ... well, it's not for me. I'm too far away for this all to really bother me anymore (almost no-one here in Berlin give a toss about Hibs/Hearts or Scottish football) - I used to be at all the games for years on end, so I can understand your general mood. I just feel this "not being bothered about losing" is a continuation of a thread in our club's history stretching all the way back to Turnbull's team and before to Shankly's excellent team as well, I guess. Cropley said that was something missing at ER and something he learnt when he went down to Arsenal from Alan Ball, in particular: the winner's mentality - losing was not acceptable! It's a lesson we really have to get around to learning, if we are to progress as a club, I feel. The passion, excitement and interest will then follow on.

Possibly an element of a generational thing? As a child of the Miller era I don't know if accepting losing is the correct term but when it happens more often than not it has an impact. It's what you then do with that. Our barren spells have extended too long. I'd hoped that we could have drawn a line with the 5-1 debacle - obv not....

erskine-hibby
12-08-2013, 05:54 PM
Imho apathy is the one thing that RP has brought to the club. Over the years he has gone out of his way to swerve any blame of how things on the park have gone. It is HE who brings in our managers it is he who decides when they go, unless of course he goes behind their backs and leaves them no choice but to resign.

Twa Cairpets
12-08-2013, 07:37 PM
While a good post, I personally would take issue with the bit in bold. I can see what you are getting at with the passion, excitement and the manner of losing, but a club that "accepts losing" ... well, it's not for me. I'm too far away for this all to really bother me anymore (almost no-one here in Berlin give a toss about Hibs/Hearts or Scottish football) - I used to be at all the games for years on end, so I can understand your general mood. I just feel this "not being bothered about losing" is a continuation of a thread in our club's history stretching all the way back to Turnbull's team and before to Shankly's excellent team as well, I guess. Cropley said that was something missing at ER and something he learnt when he went down to Arsenal from Alan Ball, in particular: the winner's mentality - losing was not acceptable! It's a lesson we really have to get around to learning, if we are to progress as a club, I feel. The passion, excitement and interest will then follow on.

It's maybe not quite the right phrase.
I suppose the point is that I understand that in reality, we will lose games of football. I understand that as a result of size, resource, the country we play in, competitors, luck - whatever - there will be games when we lose, and it is unlikely we will challenge for the league or in Europe. It is therefore the manner of the defeat that is more important. Its not too much to ask to be entertained - that's what football is - an entertainment. We pay to enjoy the spectacle, and hope that the quality of the entertainment is of a level that if the result doesn't go our way at least we don't feel swindled, that we've been part of something. How many games do you leave and instantly think - "I remember almost nothing of that game".

I want Hibs to win every game, but know they won't, so my expectation is that they will do their best to win and entertain. Sadly, we have had neither of much for years. I hate this feeling.

theonlywayisup
12-08-2013, 07:43 PM
Yesterday was my 100 and something-th straight derby, home and away, stretching back to 1985.
There have been horrible games - most of them in fact - as a result of the result or the performance or both.

What hit me yesterday, for the only time, was the collective mood of disbelief that we could be let down, yet again, in such circumstances. Often after conceding, you get a fight back, yesterday it had communally gone. The guys at Tynie are, its fair to say, die-hards. Not the only die-hards, but representative of them. When the soul is sucked out of that set of fans, then that's where there is real, deep trouble. Regardless of the manager, the players, the board, the fans ARE the club and I went yesterday out of habit, leaving a much more enjoyable youth football event. Next time I probably wont, and the mere thought of that would have been impossible 5 years ago.

The big worry must be to the Board, STF, whoever,that when people like me - and others on the board who are generally supportive, not knee-jerk and realistic in expectation - have been booted squarely in the kahoonas one time too many then we'll simply stop going, quietly, and do things that aren't so masochistic.

There was a phrase about football I heard I think from an Irvine Welsh book is that "it isn't the losing, it's the hope that kills you". The hope is also what makes football, usually, so exciting, but when when even that is eroded to the point of negligibility, then it becomes very hard to keep the passion.

I want something to change to make it great fun again - I don't mind losing - that'll happen, but losing without fun, passion, excitement, interest? Well, that's heart breaking and it puts the future of the club at risk of death by indifference.

Well said. As someone who watched Hibs suffer bad runs in 80s/90s, I have been through a lot of low points. However, this recent run has left me at a lowest of all lows. The final was bad enough, but I felt even lower yesterday. Watching us getting out-played and out-fought by a bunch of kids was depressing! Despite having a season ticket, I would rather play golf on Saturday than watch such a poor Hibs team.

sahib
12-08-2013, 08:04 PM
Lobbing the ball to the middle of nowhere for most of the game against a bunch of bairns WTF !!! Theres no excuse for it. F...ing awful !!

People keep saying this, but we had our best team in years when we had "a bunch of bairns".

southern hibby
12-08-2013, 09:11 PM
Never travelled as far as you mate but I try to go on the pre-season tours etc and I know just how you feel. Nowadays it costs me a couple of hundred quid to fly over for a game and I'm not spending another penny on Hibs until that whole shower ***** have been cleaned out of my club. Well it used to feel like my club... but I'm ashamed of the lot of them management, board, players...

Done Portugal pre season against forest and malmo too. And money I've spent watching games is probably obscene but at this moment I'n time I
truly am not even interested I'n spending petrol Money to Easter Road.GGTTH

Peanut Shaz
12-08-2013, 09:57 PM
Been reading this board for years and finally decided to sign up. I've been a season ticket holder for more years than I care to remember. My 3 kids also. For the past few years the anticipation, excitement and build up to the games has been chipped away until I no longer think about the game until a couple of hours before. We longer get the buzz at the games, in fact I sit arms folded and totally uninterested now thinking of a 101 other things . The passion has gone completely. I have now reached the tipping point and will definitely not be renewing next year unless there are MASSIVE changes at the club. If they can afford to lose die hards likee and my family then good luck to them. They're going go need it. Can't find strong enough words to get my feelings over, just sad that it's come to this. Never thought I'd see the day Hibs didnt mean the world to me and that I'd be embarrassed to admit where my allegiances lie.

Twa Cairpets
13-08-2013, 08:40 AM
Been reading this board for years and finally decided to sign up. I've been a season ticket holder for more years than I care to remember. My 3 kids also. For the past few years the anticipation, excitement and build up to the games has been chipped away until I no longer think about the game until a couple of hours before. We longer get the buzz at the games, in fact I sit arms folded and totally uninterested now thinking of a 101 other things . The passion has gone completely. I have now reached the tipping point and will definitely not be renewing next year unless there are MASSIVE changes at the club. If they can afford to lose die hards likee and my family then good luck to them. They're going go need it. Can't find strong enough words to get my feelings over, just sad that it's come to this. Never thought I'd see the day Hibs didnt mean the world to me and that I'd be embarrassed to admit where my allegiances lie.

I wouldn't ever go down this route.
There's moments when what the team have done on the pitch has been embarrassing, but I've never, ever been embarrassed to say I'm a Hibby. I expect that to remain the case regardless of whatever happens at the club. I've invested too much of my life to be embarrassed, and, on a positive note, I never ever have to say to anyone I'm a Hearts, Rangers or Celtic fan. Now that would be embarrassing.

James70
13-08-2013, 08:54 AM
I stopped going after Mowbray to be honest.

Hibs are not going anywhere (and haven't been for a while) and I find it all tedious now.

Problem for me is, you can take the boy out of ER but you can't take the Hibby out the boy!

My feelings entirely though I did stick it out for a while with Mixu before giving up my season ticket. After staying for the whole 90 minutes against Malmo there is no danger I will be back any time soon.

Hermit Crab
13-08-2013, 09:09 AM
Lobbing the ball to the middle of nowhere for most of the game against a bunch of bairns WTF !!! Theres no excuse for it. F...ing awful !!

Correct. Every time a long ball went up to Collins he was signalling he wanted it into feet. The one time he got it into feet he turned and shot just wide.

--------
14-08-2013, 09:57 AM
Yesterday was my 100 and something-th straight derby, home and away, stretching back to 1985.
There have been horrible games - most of them in fact - as a result of the result or the performance or both.

What hit me yesterday, for the only time, was the collective mood of disbelief that we could be let down, yet again, in such circumstances. Often after conceding, you get a fight back, yesterday it had communally gone. The guys at Tynie are, its fair to say, die-hards. Not the only die-hards, but representative of them. When the soul is sucked out of that set of fans, then that's where there is real, deep trouble. Regardless of the manager, the players, the board, the fans ARE the club and I went yesterday out of habit, leaving a much more enjoyable youth football event. Next time I probably wont, and the mere thought of that would have been impossible 5 years ago.

The big worry must be to the Board, STF, whoever,that when people like me - and others on the board who are generally supportive, not knee-jerk and realistic in expectation - have been booted squarely in the kahoonas one time too many then we'll simply stop going, quietly, and do things that aren't so masochistic.

There was a phrase about football I heard I think from an Irvine Welsh book is that "it isn't the losing, it's the hope that kills you". The hope is also what makes football, usually, so exciting, but when when even that is eroded to the point of negligibility, then it becomes very hard to keep the passion.

I want something to change to make it great fun again - I don't mind losing - that'll happen, but losing without fun, passion, excitement, interest? Well, that's heart breaking and it puts the future of the club at risk of death by indifference.


Absolutely. I'm reaching the stage I no longer care.

Truthfully, I have better things to do with my Saturdays than waste them on Farmer and Petrie's Disaster RoadShow.

I'm on here right now out of habit rather than wanting to discuss Hibs.

LongshanksED
14-08-2013, 10:35 AM
Absolutely. I'm reaching the stage I no longer care.

Truthfully, I have better things to do with my Saturdays than waste them on Farmer and Petrie's Disaster RoadShow.

I'm on here right now out of habit rather than wanting to discuss Hibs.

I've been like that since John Collins left and mixu was brought in. May have something to do with the timing of my daughter being born that year too but since the mixu/yogi/calderwood reins, I've not regretted it!

blackpoolhibs
14-08-2013, 10:42 AM
Absolutely. I'm reaching the stage I no longer care.

Truthfully, I have better things to do with my Saturdays than waste them on Farmer and Petrie's Disaster RoadShow.

I'm on here right now out of habit rather than wanting to discuss Hibs.

I'm with you Doddie, i too am here through habit but also have no desire to bother my arse travelling to see what's on offer each and every week.

I'm just soooooooo bored with my football club.:rolleyes:

Pretty Boy
14-08-2013, 10:57 AM
Is it just me or has the match report from Sundays game disappeared from the website?

southsider
14-08-2013, 11:25 AM
My old dad who is 78 calls me every day and wants to talk about the Hibs. Often as not i just try to change the subject now as we are RANK, and no- one at board level seems to care. Do we ? People, i think, would rather come on here and moan than do something to change things. Lets get 200-300 fans at the protest meeting and let the board know that we just are not going to take this crap any longer.

JimBHibees
14-08-2013, 11:26 AM
Is it just me or has the match report from Sundays game disappeared from the website?

What game on Sunday? :greengrin

Gatecrasher
14-08-2013, 11:31 AM
Is it just me or has the match report from Sundays game disappeared from the website?

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/MatchReport/0,,10290~71556,00.html

Makaveli
14-08-2013, 11:35 AM
http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/page/MatchReport/0,,10290~71556,00.html

They deleted the report from the main news page (pre-match articles etc are still there). It's only available from fixtures section now.

Twa Cairpets
31-10-2013, 09:26 AM
Thought I'd have a look back at my post after the August derby to see what the reaction was then. Not too much different, I suppose.

The common factor is that after the goal, you just knew we weren't getting back in to it.

The difference I think was in the crowd. Much anger, much of it irrational but much of it understandable. I suggested in the OP that there was an extremely dangerous tipping point, where Hibs alienate long term fans by what happens on the pitch through an endless succession of under-achieving in big matches. I've said before that overall, Hibs on average perform about where they should be over any sensible timescale. It's the constant feeling of inevitable disappointment that sucks the life out of you.

On the way home after the game with my 13yo daughter, we were discussing the game. We worked out I've spent at today's prices (or had spent on me when I was a kid) around £50,000 on tickets, petrol, food etc going to, at best guess, around 1,000 games (40 years x 25 games a year average). I can recall without difficulty (and I'm not senile or drunk) maybe 30 in that time, and (cup finals apart), maybe 1 or 2 in the last 5-6 years. This is not a good return, and driving back out to West Lothian after the game I did think "what is the point?".

I'm not going to do any flouncing show boating posting back my ST or scarf chucking or manning the barricades. I'm at real risk of just drifting away, and that is exceptionally dangerous for the club. Of the boys I went to the game with every week 15 years ago, there are now 3 left of the 8 or 9 who had ST's. One hasn't been to anything other than a final for 4 years, and they are, effectively, lost to the club. I would utterly hate for me to be one of them, but next season, unless there is something dramatic to entice me back - something to give hope and excitement, I suspect I could well be.

I have no strong opinion on Fenlon as it happens, but the economic realities are now such that if he doesn't go - if for no other reason than bringing punters back in through the gate to give whatever manager we have next year a decent player budget.

Mango Man
31-10-2013, 09:46 AM
This was the first game I had been to in about 3 years and the first Derby since 2006 semi final, I vowed never to go back to another one after that performance, had pretty much went to the majority of the 22 in a row as well, for some bizarre reason I had the urge to take the wife and a mate along yesterday, this being the wifes first game, never again will I put her through that, in fact, I can safely say I will never go to a derby ever again, doesn't matter how strong a team we have, we just don't turn up against them.

Hibs are the biggest underachieving city club I think there has ever been, there is only so much the fans can take, soon as that goal went in it felt like the whole crowd knew we would not get a goal back, because that's what we are used to.

Should be a great fun day at work today..............:fuming:

Saorsa
31-10-2013, 09:49 AM
Tipping Point?


​Consider me tipped.

Jones28
31-10-2013, 12:34 PM
Tipping Point?


​Consider me tipped.

:agree:

Well and truly tipped off.

Hibercelona
31-10-2013, 12:41 PM
My old dad who is 78 calls me every day and wants to talk about the Hibs. Often as not i just try to change the subject now as we are RANK, and no- one at board level seems to care. Do we ? People, i think, would rather come on here and moan than do something to change things. Lets get 200-300 fans at the protest meeting and let the board know that we just are not going to take this crap any longer.

Or alternatively, we could just not turn up to games anymore.

Anything that will have an impact on the balance sheets will have an impact on the board. Nothing else we do will have sod all effect.

The board don't care how the fans feel, as long as they can emotionally black mail us just enough, to keep us going back...

Miguel
31-10-2013, 01:22 PM
We are the Bristol Rovers of Scotland, second best to city rivals who are no great shakes themselves. I honestly dont know the way forward. We need an expert recruiter/consultant to take a long hard look at all aspects of this club, before we plunge in and make the same old mistakes again. There must be someone out there who can review the situation.

The Green Goblin
31-10-2013, 01:33 PM
Rowan Vine was watching Deal or No Deal earlier and discussing with Craig Beattie.

Obviously a long hard day at the office.


"No Deal", I would have thought based on his performance last night.

GreenCastle
31-10-2013, 01:45 PM
Deja vu after several derbies / games recently - groundhog day with the same outcome - CHANGE IS NEEDED NOW

The Green Goblin
31-10-2013, 01:51 PM
Sad stuff reading this thread, and frightening too, to see people who have loved and supported the club their whole lives finally reaching a point of such dejection with the way things are. Sadder still to realise that when I read the comments, I realise that youse are all describing my own feelings on it as well.

I am overseas, yes, but I always arrange my plans around the games whenever I can and I pay around 500 - 600 quid a year into the club (Hibs TV Season Ticket [60 quid], Hibs TV Xtra Season Ticket [150 quid], 5-6 home/away games in December/January [plus travel/programmes/food etc: 175 - 200 quid], Club Shop [50 - 75] and other things like Hibs lottery and so on). I planned to be at Tannadice and Pittodrie in January for example, so add on that travel as well.

I was crushed after last night, just in disbelief, as Twa Cairpets said, that this could happen again. How was that possible? I felt so angry it kind of ended up defeating me and I just sat there and ended up thinking along the same lines as many people on here have posted, which was a horrible thing to realise even as it occurred to me.

The club`s rotten to the core: a Chairman who supports a manager after the worst result in Scottish football history, thus, as Springbank said, sending out the message that this was okay, a manager who is now frankly insulting the integrity of the club and the fans by just continuing to collect his pay in the face of the shambles he has presided over.

If this isn`t enough to create a tipping/breaking point for the club, then we will never have one and nothing will ever change. Time for total and complete change from top to bottom, including RP, but Fenlon first. It`s an embarrassment and an insult that he is still the Hibs manager today.

I know many on here don`t agree with what I`m about to write, but the fans staying away from ER in large numbers on a regular basis seems to me to be the only thing that might start waking some people at the club up. It`s not ever a thing to want to see, but what else do you think will work? And if things get better, will anyone care by then anyway?

Sometimes, you can deliver one blow, one failed promise, one disappointment too many.

Was it a Tipping point last night? Yes, I think so, sadly. Will it ultimately change anything in a meaningful way? No.

Weststandwanab
31-10-2013, 02:26 PM
Good post. I always knew there was a chance we could get beat yesterday but deep down felt that the fans couldn't be let down again particularly the contrasting situations.

I go to tynecastle regularly and the 2-1 at the end of last season was the only one I've missed since 2005 but apart from last season can anyone tell me the last time hibs scored at tynecastle? Deek !


Deek 2009

Ggtth Ah beat me t it !


Definitely no apologies, only the young lads talking saying they don't know why they don't get a chance. I am an old guy and I agree they must be wondering what they have to do to get a chance particularly after last night and particularly Jordan Forster !

Dashing Bob S
31-10-2013, 02:39 PM
Agree with all the above. Sounds perverse but I'm now genuinely more scared he'll put a run together now, and secure another contract at the end of the season. His teams are dire to watch, clueless, devoid of inspiration or creativity, no pace and set up to defend.

FranckSuzy
31-10-2013, 02:50 PM
I was in The Persevere last night, with guys who had travelled up from all over Lancashire to support the Hibees, and fair play to them all. Once in the ground, it crossed my mind that there would probably be a lot of folk for whom this would be their first game back after last year's final/this year's final or even the Malmo game. For a brief moment I thought, "Hibs can't let us all down again," but I had a horrible feeling that that's exactly what was going to happen. My thoughts also drifted to the Oz Hibs guys, like my brother, who'd be getting up at daft o'clock to cheer on their team and also to the commitment they show, week in/week out, despite the miles.

THIS is what it means to Hibbies, that despite the miles, the hassle, the expense, the time off work etc, we still do it as they're OUR team. How much longer do the club think they can abuse people's goodwill and expect them to just keep coming back for more? It's like the abused spouse scenario that eventually, most of them will pluck up the courage to leave and it'll be for good this time.

Higgy115
31-10-2013, 03:32 PM
Sad stuff reading this thread, and frightening too, to see people who have loved and supported the club their whole lives finally reaching a point of such dejection with the way things are. Sadder still to realise that when I read the comments, I realise that youse are all describing my own feelings on it as well.

I am overseas, yes, but I always arrange my plans around the games whenever I can and I pay around 500 - 600 quid a year into the club (Hibs TV Season Ticket [60 quid], Hibs TV Xtra Season Ticket [150 quid], 5-6 home/away games in December/January [plus travel/programmes/food etc: 175 - 200 quid], Club Shop [50 - 75] and other things like Hibs lottery and so on). I planned to be at Tannadice and Pittodrie in January for example, so add on that travel as well.

I was crushed after last night, just in disbelief, as Twa Cairpets said, that this could happen again. How was that possible? I felt so angry it kind of ended up defeating me and I just sat there and ended up thinking along the same lines as many people on here have posted, which was a horrible thing to realise even as it occurred to me.

The club`s rotten to the core: a Chairman who supports a manager after the worst result in Scottish football history, thus, as Springbank said, sending out the message that this was okay, a manager who is now frankly insulting the integrity of the club and the fans by just continuing to collect his pay in the face of the shambles he has presided over.

If this isn`t enough to create a tipping/breaking point for the club, then we will never have one and nothing will ever change. Time for total and complete change from top to bottom, including RP, but Fenlon first. It`s an embarrassment and an insult that he is still the Hibs manager today.

I know many on here don`t agree with what I`m about to write, but the fans staying away from ER in large numbers on a regular basis seems to me to be the only thing that might start waking some people at the club up. It`s not ever a thing to want to see, but what else do you think will work? And if things get better, will anyone care by then anyway?

Sometimes, you can deliver one blow, one failed promise, one disappointment too many.

Was it a Tipping point last night? Yes, I think so, sadly. Will it ultimately change anything in a meaningful way? No.

A very well written post and echoes exactly how I feel at the moment although living within a few miles from the ground. No hiding place today from the Jambos and no excuses, can't even offer a comeback to the abuse.....

Keith_M
31-10-2013, 04:06 PM
Sadly, I wasn't even of the view that we would win last night. I had the same feeling of inevitability as I've had before so many other games against the Yams and Cup Finals.

JeMeSouviens
31-10-2013, 04:22 PM
Sadly, I wasn't even of the view that we would win last night. I had the same feeling of inevitability as I've had before so many other games against the Yams and Cup Finals.

I went to the game thinking it would be tight and scrappy and hoped we would edge it but feared the worst. To get there and see just how jaw droppingly pish they are but we still failed to beat them is :confused: :bitchy::boo hoo::grr:

Spike Mandela
31-10-2013, 04:29 PM
Thought I'd have a look back at my post after the August derby to see what the reaction was then. Not too much different, I suppose.

The common factor is that after the goal, you just knew we weren't getting back in to it.

The difference I think was in the crowd. Much anger, much of it irrational but much of it understandable. I suggested in the OP that there was an extremely dangerous tipping point, where Hibs alienate long term fans by what happens on the pitch through an endless succession of under-achieving in big matches. I've said before that overall, Hibs on average perform about where they should be over any sensible timescale. It's the constant feeling of inevitable disappointment that sucks the life out of you.

On the way home after the game with my 13yo daughter, we were discussing the game. We worked out I've spent at today's prices (or had spent on me when I was a kid) around £50,000 on tickets, petrol, food etc going to, at best guess, around 1,000 games (40 years x 25 games a year average). I can recall without difficulty (and I'm not senile or drunk) maybe 30 in that time, and (cup finals apart), maybe 1 or 2 in the last 5-6 years. This is not a good return, and driving back out to West Lothian after the game I did think "what is the point?".

I'm not going to do any flouncing show boating posting back my ST or scarf chucking or manning the barricades. I'm at real risk of just drifting away, and that is exceptionally dangerous for the club. Of the boys I went to the game with every week 15 years ago, there are now 3 left of the 8 or 9 who had ST's. One hasn't been to anything other than a final for 4 years, and they are, effectively, lost to the club. I would utterly hate for me to be one of them, but next season, unless there is something dramatic to entice me back - something to give hope and excitement, I suspect I could well be.

I have no strong opinion on Fenlon as it happens, but the economic realities are now such that if he doesn't go - if for no other reason than bringing punters back in through the gate to give whatever manager we have next year a decent player budget.

If you haven't drifted away after 40 years then the chances of doing so are unlikely. The sad fact is, no matter how bad it it gets, the club have got you in their snare. There is no escape.

7Hero
31-10-2013, 05:16 PM
I thought this post was excellent when initially posted. Well done to the OP for reposting, his views are articulate, calm and bang on the money.

This is the best post on .net and if the directors were to read any post this is it..

southern hibby
31-10-2013, 05:32 PM
Went to Easter Road today and handed back my season ticket. Got to the point that I can't idly sit back and allow Apathy to set I'n on what's going on at Hibs. If anyone thinks it's a knee jerk reaction, I can guarantee you that I've reached my tipping point and I for one have had enough.

I really do not think it will achieve anything but at least I feel that Petrie might actually take notice.

Makaveli
31-10-2013, 05:35 PM
Went to Easter Road today and handed back my season ticket. Got to the point that I can't idly sit back and allow Apathy to set I'n on what's going on at Hibs. If anyone thinks it's a knee jerk reaction, I can guarantee you that I've reached my tipping point and I for one have had enough.

I really do not think it will achieve anything but at least I feel that Petrie might actually take notice.

Fair play for doing something. Did you get any kind of comment or reaction when you handed it over?

southern hibby
31-10-2013, 05:42 PM
Fair play for doing something. Did you get any kind of comment or reaction when you handed it over?

Lady that excepted it seemed genuinely concerned asked for my number and said she would try and get someone to phone me back. I said can you get Rod or Paddy to phone back because I think I deserve at least them to get intouch. Was informed request would be passed through to Rods PA. GGTTH

The Green Goblin
31-10-2013, 05:47 PM
Lady that excepted it seemed genuinely concerned asked for my number and said she would try and get someone to phone me back. I said can you get Rod or Paddy to phone back because I think I deserve at least them to get intouch. Was informed request would be passed through to Rods PA. GGTTH

Fair play for actually doing something and looking for a response. Without taking anything away from your gesture, it`s hard to ignore that the thing is the club already have your money don`t they? As a fan, I`m sure you probably don`t resent that too much. I hope you get that phone call and a chance to have your say.

GreenCastle
31-10-2013, 05:52 PM
People use the term knee jerk reaction often after a defeat but all of the posts on here since the final whistle aren't knee jerk - they are people finally fed up having hoped that surely our club could stand up last night and be counted in it's on back yard with a great backing once again from the fans.

What we have ended up with is many people who came to watch last night not going back at all / this season / till Fenlon is gone.

Often the supporters can be split on this message board but the 2nd poll in recent times on Fenlon tells you what the fans think of him.

The new direction from the top discussion is more split but I believe people are slowly waking up and seeing we are rotten at the core and that until changes are made the same rotten performances will happen - a new manager will just deflect the anger / moans away from the board.

A new manager is needed but I 100% don't trust them to get it right - RP picking a manager to manage a football club - something Petrie knows nothing about.

While I don't like comparing us to Hearts and not trying to make excuses - but both capital clubs are in a mess - just in different ways.

S.sct
31-10-2013, 06:21 PM
Sponge Dalek


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Jonnyboy
31-10-2013, 09:48 PM
Rowan Vine was watching Deal or No Deal earlier and discussing with Craig Beattie.

Obviously a long hard day at the office.

Closest he'll get to a box

MB62
01-11-2013, 08:40 AM
If you haven't drifted away after 40 years then the chances of doing so are unlikely. The sad fact is, no matter how bad it it gets, the club have got you in their snare. There is no escape.

Can't agree with that Spike. I know quite a few who have supported the club for as long and longer and who now don't go, or at best, go to an odd game throughout a season. After the Aberdeen game, I decided I had had enough, not so much because of the result but because of the way P.F. had us lined up and it's not the way I want to watch fitba being played, trying to hit teams on the break at home. I feared the draw against smelltic the week before would give P.F. the excuse to play the same way again and he did, basically admitting Aberdeen were so much a better side than us before a ball was kicked, which personally, I didn't think they were.
Anyway, to the point, you can now add me to the support who after 50 years, can't take watching Hibs play the way we are and until things change, I will find alternatives to do on match days.

BTW, I am not convinced it is ALL P.F's fault, it is too much a coincidence that manager after manager has failed at Easter Road, although as man in charge of team selections and tactics, he takes the biggest share of the blame.
IMO, Pat has signed a lot of good players, but not a good TEAM.